3ABN recognizes the
importance of sharing the tools
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to overcome
temptation in every arena.
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The program that
you're about to view contains
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sensitive content.
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Parental discretion is advised.
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I wanna spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I wanna spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I wanna spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and I have a wonderful
co-host with me, Jason Bradley.
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Yes. Yes, it's good to be here.
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So good to have you, Jay.
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He happens to be my
son and my assistant,
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so I have a two for today.
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That's right. That's
right, little nepotism.
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That's right.
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Oh, I'm so excited
about today's program.
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I can't wait for you to see it.
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It's gonna be so great.
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Some of my favorite
people in ministry are here
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with us today.
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Coming Out Ministries
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which is just an
incredible ministry,
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you're gonna hear all about it.
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Let's look at...
Let's introduce our guests.
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We have Mike
Carducci, Wayne Blakely,
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Danielle Harrison,
and Pastor Ron Woolsey.
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Yeah. Good to be here.
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Oh, man, I can't
wait for the viewers
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to hear what you're about,
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because there's been
so much change in society,
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we know that
everywhere you go now,
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there is just,
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there's a
difference in values and media,
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and we here at
3ABN, as you know,
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we are devoted to
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and dedicated to
counteracting the counterfeit.
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So we have truth,
and we have tools,
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and we have just all
this wonderful things
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that God has given us here,
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and a platform for
this wonderful ministry.
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So before we get into
that, we do have a song for you.
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It's Tammy Chance
singing "He will carry you".
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There is no problem too big
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God cannot solve it
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There is no mountain too tall
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He cannot move it
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And there is no storm too dark
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God cannot calm it
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There is no sorrow too deep
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He cannot soothe it
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If He carried the
weight of the world
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Upon His shoulders
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I know my brother that He
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Will carry you
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If He carried the
weight of the world
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Upon His shoulders
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I know my sister that He
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Will carry you
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He said, "Come to me
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All who are weary
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And I will give
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You rest"
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There is no problem too big
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God cannot solve it
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There is no mountain too tall
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He cannot move it
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And there is no storm too dark
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God cannot calm it
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There is no sorrow too deep
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He cannot soothe it
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If He carried the
weight of the world
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Upon His shoulders
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I know my brother that He
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Will carry you
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If He carried the
weight of the world
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Upon His shoulders
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I know my sister that He
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Will carry you
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I know, my brother
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I know, my sister
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I know that He
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Will carry me through.
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He will carry you.
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Thank you so much,
Tammy, for that lovely song.
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And how appropriate
it is to today's message.
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Don't you think, Jay?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
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It's really, really good.
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So without further ado,
let's get into our program
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because our guests
have amazing testimonies.
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And I think we
should start there,
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and find out who you are?
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What Coming Out
Ministries is all about?
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Or first, let's find out,
what is Coming Out Ministries?
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Wayne?
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Well.
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We've given the appropriate
meaning to the phrase
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"Coming Out,"
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because in I
Peter 2:9, it says that,
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"He brought us out of darkness
into His marvelous light."
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So sometimes people get
confused with "coming out"
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but it draws the
attention of many
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and we want to share with them
that Jesus does have solutions.
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He does have the power
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to bring healing
into each of our lives.
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That's good.
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Mike, did you wanna add to that?
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Sure, Coming Out Ministries
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really talks about
coming out of darkness
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and into God's marvelous light.
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And each one of us
totally identified,
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in the gay culture our lives
were not just consumed by it
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but identified by that.
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And so to come
into a relationship
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with Jesus Christ,
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you know, was a huge sacrifice
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but we've realized that
that as God was leading us,
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that what we're
really coming out of was,
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was something different
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and more than what
we'd even expected,
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so, again, we realize now
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that coming out is much more
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beyond our
identity in ourselves,
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it's really in our
identity in Christ.
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Danielle, what do you think
about Coming Out Ministries?
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Well, I think that this ministry
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is really relevant to
today like you mentioned before.
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There is so much confusion
on the topic of homosexuality
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and I think that, for us,
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we suffered a lot of
confusion in our youth.
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We wish that we would
have been given pointed answers
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from the scripture
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that would have helped us
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to navigate through
those very challenging times
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but there was no help for us
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and we really strive to
provide that help today.
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Oh, that's so good. Pastor Ron?
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You know, in Revelation
we see the, one of the,
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the final
message for God's people
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is to come out, come
out of her, my people.
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And we lived in a culture
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where many people
desperately want deliverance.
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We've seen them. I was one.
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We all were people who
wanted to come out of that life
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realizing it was
a life of bondage.
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And so our message
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is really a part of
the gospel commission,
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to take the
invitation to every nation,
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kindred, tongue, and people.
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We have the gay culture
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which is now a global
culture, a global community.
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And we are inviting God's people
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in that culture
to come out of her
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and be a part of
God's remnant church
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and part of God's family.
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You know, it's very deep
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because the
society is really pushing,
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it's really
promoting gay culture
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on so many different levels.
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And you guys are actually
swimming against the current.
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And as I know you
know, let's hear your story.
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Let's start with you,
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Pastor Ron,
'cause you are a pastor,
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you are a
Seventh-day Adventist pastor.
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Let's talk about your journey.
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Yes, I've...
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I have been in
ministry for 25 years.
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I pastored two
wonderful churches
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in the Ozark
Mountains of Arkansas,
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North Central Arkansas.
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They are very
supportive of what I do
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when I'm away from home.
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They realize that this mission
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and this message is
really of end-time significance.
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But, of course, I
was not always a pastor.
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I come from a very destructive
and a self-degrading, degraded,
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and a self-destructive past.
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Born and raised in
a Christian family,
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but I was sexually molested
when I was four years old.
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And it's amazing
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to realize how one
incident such as that
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can totally derail a
child that is not equipped,
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is not mature enough mentally,
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physically,
spiritually, emotionally,
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to process molestation
or that kind of abuse.
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And I grew up terribly
confused about my identity.
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And as I grew
into teenage years,
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my attractions were
towards the same type of person
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who had introduced me
to sex in the beginning.
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And so I went through
life trying to mask that.
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I dated. I had girl friends.
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And I eventually, even married.
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I thought, in my wisdom,
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that marriage
would be the solution
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to the whole confusion.
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And I like to warn
young people today,
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marriage is not the
solution to any problem.
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It can actually be
the beginning of woes
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if you're not
married for the right reason,
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to the right person, and
with the blessing of God.
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Though my wife was a
wonderful Christian woman
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and it was my choice
to have a Christian home,
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a Christian wife,
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to make Christian babies,
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you know, and we
had two of those.
00:12:21.77\00:12:23.87
But still that did
not resolve the issues
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that I was struggling with,
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that I'd had a lifetime of
experiencing and fantasying
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and with wild imaginations
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uncontrollable
from early childhood.
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I ended up bringing my
marriage to a devastating end,
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as I was totally
frustrated with God and church.
00:12:41.46\00:12:44.29
And, and I think
this might be interesting
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to point out
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that I graduated from college
with a degree in Theology
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and with honors
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and brought my
marriage to an end,
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because I had
that Bible knowledge,
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but I did not have
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the right understanding of
God's plan for my salvation.
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That's right.
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And that is a very key point
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because we can know
about God without knowing God.
00:13:08.42\00:13:13.56
And that was my case.
00:13:13.59\00:13:14.92
And who could you talk to?
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That's the other thing.
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Who were you, were you able
to talk to anybody growing up?
00:13:19.16\00:13:22.93
About what had happened to you,
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about the confusion
that you must have had?
00:13:26.03\00:13:30.91
Who, did you have
anybody that you could talk to?
00:13:30.94\00:13:33.68
I'm sure there was
someone I could have talked to,
00:13:33.74\00:13:35.91
but I didn't feel like
I could talk to anyone.
00:13:35.94\00:13:38.91
I did not have that
kind of relationship
00:13:38.95\00:13:41.02
with my parents
to even tell them
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at the age of four.
00:13:42.48\00:13:44.62
I felt, you know, afraid.
00:13:44.65\00:13:46.42
I felt dirty. I felt guilty.
00:13:46.45\00:13:48.62
So...
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My kids today refer to
this as the olden days.
00:13:50.49\00:13:53.36
But in the olden days,
growing up, in our church,
00:13:53.40\00:13:59.53
there was, I don't
think any of us felt that
00:13:59.57\00:14:02.44
there is anyone we
could really talk to,
00:14:02.47\00:14:04.64
there was no discussion,
there were no resources,
00:14:04.67\00:14:07.81
and we struggled
alone to the point
00:14:07.84\00:14:11.81
we became overwhelmed.
00:14:11.85\00:14:13.18
I know in my case, I
became totally overwhelmed.
00:14:13.21\00:14:16.45
I have prayed for years
00:14:16.48\00:14:17.82
the Lord would
take the gay away,
00:14:17.85\00:14:19.79
and I want to point that out
00:14:19.82\00:14:21.16
because many
people pray that prayer
00:14:21.19\00:14:23.29
and God doesn't take
the gay away necessarily,
00:14:23.32\00:14:26.26
like the apostle Paul
00:14:26.29\00:14:27.60
who prayed the Lord would
take something away repeatedly
00:14:27.66\00:14:30.57
and God said, "No,
I'm not taking it away.
00:14:30.63\00:14:32.70
My grace is
sufficient for that".
00:14:32.73\00:14:34.77
And I didn't understand that.
00:14:34.80\00:14:36.14
So I got angry with God
00:14:36.17\00:14:37.51
because He
wouldn't just take this away
00:14:37.57\00:14:39.71
and turned my back on
Him, broke up my family,
00:14:39.74\00:14:42.51
went headlong into the gay life
where I lived for many years.
00:14:42.54\00:14:46.68
But I had praying
parents, praying friends,
00:14:46.72\00:14:49.98
and a God who loved
me even as a prodigal
00:14:50.05\00:14:53.15
and He would not leave me alone.
00:14:53.19\00:14:54.52
Yes, yes.
00:14:54.56\00:14:55.89
And so eventually,
00:14:55.92\00:14:57.29
under great
conviction and through,
00:14:57.33\00:14:59.96
I think divine interference
00:15:00.06\00:15:02.50
and intervention through a
recurring nightmare of living
00:15:02.53\00:15:05.57
through the
coming of Jesus, lost.
00:15:05.60\00:15:07.87
It caught my
attention eventually
00:15:07.90\00:15:09.67
and I started studying,
00:15:09.70\00:15:11.57
this time not for my professors
but for my own survival.
00:15:11.61\00:15:15.51
And I found all of my
answers, Yvonne and Jason,
00:15:15.54\00:15:18.81
in the word of God.
00:15:18.85\00:15:20.35
Everything I needed.
00:15:20.42\00:15:22.45
Every answer to every question
00:15:22.48\00:15:24.32
I found by studying
the word of God for myself
00:15:24.35\00:15:28.02
rather than for someone else.
00:15:28.06\00:15:29.39
And then I was able to develop
00:15:29.42\00:15:31.23
that relationship with the Lord,
00:15:31.26\00:15:33.09
that gave me
that courage to turn
00:15:33.13\00:15:34.86
and walk away from
the gay life 25 years ago.
00:15:34.93\00:15:37.37
Wow.
00:15:37.43\00:15:38.77
So when you prayed
00:15:38.80\00:15:41.44
to take the gay away
00:15:41.47\00:15:44.57
and it, it
didn't happen just then,
00:15:44.61\00:15:47.44
do you feel it's taken away now?
00:15:47.48\00:15:50.25
Well, I understand now
00:15:50.31\00:15:52.08
that the prayer I
should have been praying was,
00:15:52.11\00:15:55.88
"God, give me Your grace,
00:15:55.92\00:15:57.89
Your divine transforming power."
00:15:57.92\00:16:00.59
Because it's up to me
to exercise that faith
00:16:00.62\00:16:04.19
and to exercise that grace.
00:16:04.26\00:16:06.09
And every time you
say "no" to temptation,
00:16:06.13\00:16:08.93
you get stronger
and that gets weaker.
00:16:08.96\00:16:11.63
And that's what I have
since learned, that I can,
00:16:11.67\00:16:14.74
I have developed that
habit for 25 years of saying
00:16:14.77\00:16:18.14
"no" to Satan,
00:16:18.17\00:16:20.88
so that that's not, not
an issue anymore in my life.
00:16:20.91\00:16:24.18
I've been
married now for 24 years
00:16:24.25\00:16:26.82
and we have 2 beautiful children
00:16:26.85\00:16:28.82
that are both now in
college and I cannot retire
00:16:28.85\00:16:32.35
until I get
them through college.
00:16:32.39\00:16:35.26
But my life today,
00:16:35.29\00:16:36.62
far exceeds anything I
could have ever imagined
00:16:36.66\00:16:38.76
when I was living for
self, self-gratification,
00:16:38.79\00:16:41.96
self-glorification,
self-advancement,
00:16:42.00\00:16:44.90
self, you know, self-glory.
00:16:44.93\00:16:49.07
And it's a, God's
way is truly best,
00:16:49.10\00:16:51.11
Father does know best.
00:16:51.14\00:16:52.71
Yes, He does.
00:16:52.74\00:16:54.08
You know, it's interesting
because a lot of times
00:16:54.14\00:16:56.81
it seems like there
is this invisible line,
00:16:56.85\00:16:59.45
if you will, that is
drawn between homosexuality
00:16:59.48\00:17:03.52
and heterosexuality sin-wise.
00:17:03.55\00:17:07.62
But heterosexuals
have to fight temptation
00:17:07.69\00:17:11.19
as well just like homosexuals
have to fight temptation.
00:17:11.23\00:17:14.36
You know, if we
have premarital sex,
00:17:14.36\00:17:17.17
that's a sin, you know,
00:17:17.20\00:17:19.00
that doesn't mean that
00:17:19.03\00:17:20.57
there is no desire
or anything like that,
00:17:20.64\00:17:23.30
but you have to guard
every avenue of the soul
00:17:23.34\00:17:27.11
and you have to
constantly fill your mind
00:17:27.18\00:17:29.94
and your heart
with the word of God.
00:17:29.98\00:17:32.41
This is something that,
that we're trying to point out
00:17:32.45\00:17:35.68
through our
ministry, lust is lust.
00:17:35.72\00:17:38.85
And it doesn't matter
whether it's gay lust,
00:17:38.89\00:17:41.26
or a straight lust, or
a food lust, or whatever.
00:17:41.29\00:17:44.56
Satan doesn't care
00:17:44.59\00:17:46.13
how he derails you
or gets you off-track.
00:17:46.16\00:17:49.00
And I know in society,
00:17:49.03\00:17:51.70
the effort is made
00:17:51.73\00:17:53.40
to
differentiate between gay lust
00:17:53.44\00:17:55.80
and straight lust as
though straight lust is normal
00:17:55.84\00:17:58.87
and gay lust isn't.
00:17:58.91\00:18:00.91
Lust is lust. Yes.
00:18:00.94\00:18:02.74
Yes, I think
that's a great point.
00:18:02.78\00:18:05.25
That, you know, sin is sin,
00:18:05.28\00:18:07.25
we tend to try to have
this hierarchy of sins,
00:18:07.28\00:18:09.75
like, well, I do
this, but I don't do that.
00:18:09.78\00:18:13.25
And you do this,
but I don't do that.
00:18:13.29\00:18:16.52
I mean, sin is sin.
00:18:16.56\00:18:17.89
Satan can, you know,
get you all confused,
00:18:17.93\00:18:19.79
but the bottom line is we
need tools to overcome sin.
00:18:19.83\00:18:24.80
And that's, one of the things
00:18:24.83\00:18:26.74
I love about
your ministry is that
00:18:26.77\00:18:29.00
you don't just
deal with homosexuality,
00:18:29.04\00:18:32.14
you deal with sin...
00:18:32.17\00:18:33.71
Yes. And how to overcome sin.
00:18:33.78\00:18:36.18
You know, what's been
great about our ministry
00:18:36.21\00:18:38.05
that we started five years ago
00:18:38.08\00:18:39.58
was that people
now come up to us,
00:18:39.61\00:18:41.75
you know, in a church function
or whatever and they say, wow!
00:18:41.78\00:18:44.49
You know, I'm not gay,
00:18:44.52\00:18:45.85
but you were really
speaking to me with, you know,
00:18:45.89\00:18:48.46
our stories of
overcoming victory that
00:18:48.49\00:18:50.63
people now are recognizing
that it is not just a gay thing,
00:18:50.66\00:18:53.70
you know, that Coming
Out Ministries addresses
00:18:53.73\00:18:55.33
but, you know, the
whole blanket of sin
00:18:55.36\00:18:57.47
and overcoming.
00:18:57.53\00:18:58.87
Yes, let's hear
your testimony, Mike.
00:18:58.90\00:19:00.67
Well, mine actually
began with my father,
00:19:00.70\00:19:03.20
when I came into the
church at 40 years old,
00:19:03.24\00:19:05.14
I wanted to know why,
00:19:05.17\00:19:06.71
I wanted to know
why my earlier starts
00:19:06.74\00:19:08.71
were not same sex attractive
00:19:08.74\00:19:10.58
but I knew that I was different
than the other kids in school.
00:19:10.61\00:19:13.31
And what was amazing,
00:19:13.35\00:19:14.85
because there were no
resources in our denomination,
00:19:14.88\00:19:17.42
it was like the Lord
started bringing in books
00:19:17.45\00:19:19.72
that I was reading, and
sermons that I would listen to,
00:19:19.75\00:19:23.46
and even just presentations
00:19:23.49\00:19:25.39
that I would
hear at camp meeting,
00:19:25.43\00:19:26.86
and started to show me
00:19:26.93\00:19:28.23
that actually this
really began with my father
00:19:28.26\00:19:30.10
even before I was conscious.
00:19:30.17\00:19:31.80
So between the
ages of one and three,
00:19:31.83\00:19:33.94
there has to be this
transition of little boys
00:19:33.97\00:19:36.84
where they
transition to the father
00:19:36.91\00:19:38.24
and they start
to wear cowboy boots
00:19:38.27\00:19:40.01
and baseball
caps like their dad,
00:19:40.08\00:19:41.54
and all of this is
healthy gender stamping.
00:19:41.58\00:19:44.35
So, for me, my dad
was somewhat abusive
00:19:44.38\00:19:47.55
when he was home,
he was a loud Italian,
00:19:47.62\00:19:50.09
and so that was
frightening to me,
00:19:50.12\00:19:51.62
plus the fact that
he was in the navy,
00:19:51.65\00:19:53.12
so he'd be gone three
to six months at a time.
00:19:53.15\00:19:55.36
And so when I needed
that example in my life,
00:19:55.39\00:19:58.56
that wasn't available,
or when it was available,
00:19:58.59\00:20:00.90
it was frightening.
00:20:00.93\00:20:02.23
So the term is
defensive detachment.
00:20:02.26\00:20:05.13
In my defense, I detached
from my father as my role model,
00:20:05.17\00:20:08.30
my gender role model,
00:20:08.34\00:20:09.67
and so the only one
available was my mom.
00:20:09.70\00:20:11.97
So I attached to her.
00:20:12.01\00:20:13.34
I remember thinking,
00:20:13.38\00:20:15.28
from the time that I
was conscious that, "Wow!
00:20:15.31\00:20:17.81
I should have been a girl."
00:20:17.85\00:20:19.18
And I would pray,
00:20:19.21\00:20:20.58
I recognized that God was there.
00:20:20.62\00:20:22.05
But I kind of
equated God to my father
00:20:22.08\00:20:23.95
that He was arbitrary,
judgmental, unavailable,
00:20:23.99\00:20:27.32
and so I thought that
God had made a mistake.
00:20:27.36\00:20:29.89
So as many times as I
prayed that I'd wake up
00:20:29.92\00:20:31.79
the next morning
as a little girl,
00:20:31.83\00:20:33.96
struggling with transgender
ideation I, you know,
00:20:34.00\00:20:37.10
Christmas and
birthdays were miserable
00:20:37.13\00:20:38.70
because I didn't
want a Tonka truck,
00:20:38.73\00:20:40.17
I wanted a Barbie.
00:20:40.20\00:20:41.54
I was dressing in my
mom and my sisters' clothes
00:20:41.57\00:20:43.44
so, all of this
identity issue began
00:20:43.47\00:20:46.61
even before I was conscious.
00:20:46.64\00:20:47.98
So I thought that
I was born that way.
00:20:48.01\00:20:50.41
And as I
started to go to school,
00:20:50.48\00:20:52.58
the one thing that I
needed was male affirmation
00:20:52.61\00:20:55.48
but that became
even more elusive
00:20:55.52\00:20:57.32
when the kids started
calling me names, Sissy, Queer.
00:20:57.35\00:21:00.36
So what that did is
that kept that bay still,
00:21:00.39\00:21:02.42
this identity that
I was desperate for.
00:21:02.46\00:21:04.89
I didn't know how to get it.
00:21:04.93\00:21:06.46
One of the things
00:21:06.49\00:21:07.83
that psychologists
talk about is how the sex,
00:21:07.86\00:21:10.73
that is the mystery of
puberty becomes the attraction.
00:21:10.77\00:21:13.60
So I was totally identified
with femininism, feminism,
00:21:13.64\00:21:18.44
and so I had three
sisters, a single mom,
00:21:18.47\00:21:20.74
so I know
everything about girls.
00:21:20.78\00:21:22.51
So then when puberty came,
00:21:22.54\00:21:24.31
the sex that was the mystery
to me was actually my own.
00:21:24.35\00:21:27.38
This became
sexualized, fantasy, plagued me,
00:21:27.42\00:21:32.65
held me captive,
00:21:32.69\00:21:34.59
even through high
school there were many times
00:21:34.62\00:21:37.63
that even though I
didn't want to be gay
00:21:37.66\00:21:39.89
and I didn't want
to identify this way,
00:21:39.96\00:21:41.83
I still wasn't able to
address the real source
00:21:41.86\00:21:44.20
that began with my father.
00:21:44.23\00:21:45.77
Then I was confounded
by the kids in school.
00:21:45.80\00:21:48.14
So eventually, by 20 years old,
00:21:48.17\00:21:50.04
I went to somebody in the church
00:21:50.07\00:21:52.21
that I thought I could trust,
00:21:52.24\00:21:53.61
and I basically asked him,
you know, "Can I talk to you?"
00:21:53.64\00:21:57.68
And he said, "What's up, Mike?"
00:21:57.71\00:21:59.05
And I said, "Well, it
has to do with women."
00:21:59.08\00:22:00.72
And he said
something so derogatory,
00:22:00.75\00:22:02.35
I knew that I couldn't
trust him with my secret.
00:22:02.38\00:22:04.82
I feared what his
response would be,
00:22:04.85\00:22:06.45
so I walked out of
church that night and I said,
00:22:06.49\00:22:08.59
"If this is the best
You have, God, I'm done.
00:22:08.62\00:22:10.86
I can't get my religion
00:22:10.93\00:22:12.53
and my sexuality
to come together."
00:22:12.56\00:22:14.20
And so I went headlong
into the gay, gay culture.
00:22:14.20\00:22:18.07
But that was a
turning point for you?
00:22:18.10\00:22:21.74
To me, it was finally,
00:22:21.77\00:22:23.27
it's like, "You
haven't been there.
00:22:23.30\00:22:25.51
You didn't answer my prayers."
00:22:25.54\00:22:26.88
And again like Ron was saying
00:22:26.94\00:22:28.28
I was praying
for the wrong thing.
00:22:28.31\00:22:29.64
I was praying to be straight
when what I really needed is
00:22:29.68\00:22:32.15
I needed to know how to
claim the blood of Jesus.
00:22:32.18\00:22:35.42
And I thought that I had
to come to Jesus all perfect,
00:22:35.45\00:22:38.22
and cleaned up, and washed
up, before He would accept me.
00:22:38.25\00:22:40.72
So, you know, in
my misunderstanding,
00:22:40.76\00:22:43.49
I kept feeling like I had
to come before Him perfect,
00:22:43.53\00:22:47.30
before I would be acceptable.
00:22:47.36\00:22:48.80
So...
00:22:48.83\00:22:50.20
That's, it's interesting,
I had to cut you off,
00:22:50.23\00:22:51.83
but it's interesting
that you should say that
00:22:51.87\00:22:53.50
because I had a
conversation the other day
00:22:53.57\00:22:55.90
about that same thing.
00:22:55.94\00:22:57.44
And, you know, if we
wait until we're perfect
00:22:57.47\00:23:00.18
to come to Jesus,
00:23:00.21\00:23:01.54
we'll never come,
00:23:01.58\00:23:02.91
because we're not gonna
be made perfect without Him.
00:23:02.94\00:23:06.38
Right. So, yeah.
00:23:06.41\00:23:08.05
So even in my ignorance,
what was so amazing, at 17,
00:23:08.08\00:23:10.92
I prayed to die.
00:23:10.99\00:23:12.32
I just was done. I
knew what was coming.
00:23:12.35\00:23:13.96
And at 17, because God
didn't answer that prayer,
00:23:13.99\00:23:17.06
I just thought
that He didn't care
00:23:17.13\00:23:19.03
or that I didn't
have any value to Him.
00:23:19.06\00:23:21.13
So 20 years
living in gay culture,
00:23:21.16\00:23:23.33
I thought, a
monogamous relationship,
00:23:23.37\00:23:25.17
maybe God would respect that
00:23:25.20\00:23:26.70
that was the best
that I could do, and again,
00:23:26.74\00:23:29.04
focusing on what I could do.
00:23:29.07\00:23:30.57
A monogamous gay
relation? Correct. Correct.
00:23:30.61\00:23:33.34
But my first lover
00:23:33.38\00:23:34.71
that was about 11
years older than me
00:23:34.74\00:23:36.21
introduced me to all
kinds of sexual things
00:23:36.24\00:23:38.88
that I wasn't even
aware of that existed.
00:23:38.91\00:23:41.02
And within a few short months,
I become a sexual addict,
00:23:41.05\00:23:44.39
for 20 years.
00:23:44.42\00:23:45.75
Unfaithful in the five
significant relationships
00:23:45.79\00:23:48.59
that I had,
00:23:48.62\00:23:50.09
I was so far away from
God and turning 40 now,
00:23:50.13\00:23:53.19
thinking to myself, you know,
00:23:53.23\00:23:55.36
I must have gone
too far for God to even,
00:23:55.40\00:23:57.87
you know, care about me.
00:23:57.90\00:23:59.80
But I had sisters
that were praying for me
00:23:59.83\00:24:02.17
and those
prayers really came to me
00:24:02.20\00:24:04.57
at what I thought was
a pinnacle of my career
00:24:04.61\00:24:06.47
and my life.
00:24:06.51\00:24:07.84
You know, I had a rich boyfriend
00:24:07.88\00:24:09.21
that was good
looking and I had a career
00:24:09.24\00:24:11.55
where I was doing
hair for television people.
00:24:11.58\00:24:13.62
And I just thought that I
had the world by the tail,
00:24:13.65\00:24:16.55
but the Lord
was able to reach me
00:24:16.58\00:24:18.02
through the baptism
of my brother-in-law
00:24:18.05\00:24:20.36
who I couldn't stand,
which is a story in itself.
00:24:20.39\00:24:24.23
So all of a sudden,
00:24:24.26\00:24:26.23
my boyfriend went
out of town one weekend
00:24:26.26\00:24:28.00
and he came back,
and I was baptized.
00:24:28.03\00:24:30.13
And I was
walking with Jesus Christ
00:24:30.17\00:24:32.03
and as much as
I'd like to say that
00:24:32.07\00:24:34.20
it was a, it was a decision
00:24:34.24\00:24:38.01
that I made to be an Adventist,
00:24:38.04\00:24:39.77
it was really more that I
was accepting the invitation
00:24:39.81\00:24:42.48
from Jesus Christ,
00:24:42.51\00:24:43.85
and as I was walking in
this relationship with Christ,
00:24:43.91\00:24:46.05
all of a sudden,
00:24:46.08\00:24:47.42
He stared addressing
this emptiness inside of me
00:24:47.48\00:24:49.92
that went all the
way back to my father.
00:24:49.95\00:24:51.69
And as He started
to fill that whole,
00:24:51.72\00:24:54.02
then all of a sudden,
00:24:54.06\00:24:55.39
the sexual acting
out started to diminish.
00:24:55.42\00:24:57.66
I told God, if He wanted
me out of the relationship,
00:24:57.69\00:25:00.33
He was gonna
have to do it Himself
00:25:00.36\00:25:01.66
and God took me at my word
00:25:01.70\00:25:03.13
and said, "I'll
get right on that."
00:25:03.16\00:25:04.90
And within three weeks,
00:25:04.93\00:25:06.27
my boyfriend had
broken up with me.
00:25:06.30\00:25:07.64
And I knew that God was
working in my life powerfully.
00:25:07.67\00:25:11.14
Now nobody should
have baptized me, you know,
00:25:11.17\00:25:14.34
but nobody bothered
to ask me the questions.
00:25:14.38\00:25:16.58
"Hey, you know, what's
going on in your life?"
00:25:16.61\00:25:18.55
And I stood up
on the Friday night
00:25:18.58\00:25:20.12
before I was to be baptized,
00:25:20.15\00:25:22.35
and I was kind of underneath
the wire with all that,
00:25:22.38\00:25:25.35
but God's ways are not our ways.
00:25:25.39\00:25:27.46
And His thoughts
are not our thoughts,
00:25:27.49\00:25:29.02
and as He was walking with me,
He didn't leave me where I was.
00:25:29.06\00:25:32.93
And eventually,
00:25:32.96\00:25:36.33
for the first time in my
life to have that freedom
00:25:36.36\00:25:38.77
over the pornography,
the sexual addiction,
00:25:38.80\00:25:40.74
and all of that,
was just amazing to me
00:25:40.80\00:25:44.01
that God could do
something so powerful.
00:25:44.07\00:25:46.11
And it's been a difficult walk
00:25:46.14\00:25:49.64
but the most fulfilling walk
I think I've ever experienced.
00:25:49.68\00:25:52.81
Praise God.
00:25:52.85\00:25:54.28
The stories of
God's deliverance,
00:25:54.32\00:25:58.05
you know, we all
have testimonies,
00:25:58.09\00:26:00.29
everybody has
their own testimony
00:26:00.32\00:26:02.69
that has a
relationship with the Lord.
00:26:02.72\00:26:05.39
But it's so
incredible to hear how...
00:26:05.43\00:26:09.93
And to see how, again,
God has, and I always say this
00:26:09.96\00:26:13.44
on Dare to Dream tube,
00:26:13.47\00:26:14.80
but God has His plan
and Satan has his plan.
00:26:14.84\00:26:17.84
And God's plan
is to prosper you,
00:26:17.87\00:26:20.11
and to give you
an abundant life,
00:26:20.18\00:26:21.51
and to heal your brokenness,
00:26:21.54\00:26:23.24
'cause we all have some
brokenness in certain places.
00:26:23.28\00:26:26.58
And the enemy's plan is
to just take you from here,
00:26:26.61\00:26:31.89
all the way down.
00:26:31.92\00:26:33.25
And as you get into all
of these other relationships
00:26:33.29\00:26:36.49
and stuff, they just
bring you down, down, down.
00:26:36.52\00:26:39.06
And before you know it,
00:26:39.09\00:26:40.43
you're doing
things that you were,
00:26:40.50\00:26:42.33
you never thought you'd do.
00:26:42.36\00:26:44.37
But then God just
reaches in and picks you up.
00:26:44.40\00:26:48.34
He says, "I've got you.
00:26:48.37\00:26:49.97
I'm gonna, I'm gonna
give you a better life.
00:26:50.01\00:26:52.27
I have
something better for you."
00:26:52.31\00:26:53.68
And that's one of the things
I love about your ministry.
00:26:53.74\00:26:57.41
You show that
God has a better way.
00:26:57.45\00:27:01.05
That's, that's what you guys do.
00:27:01.08\00:27:03.75
So we love that. Danielle?
00:27:03.82\00:27:07.09
Well, my story is actually
different from my colleagues
00:27:07.12\00:27:09.79
in the fact
that I didn't grow up
00:27:09.82\00:27:11.43
in an Adventist home
or even a Christian home.
00:27:11.46\00:27:14.60
We didn't have Jesus in our home
00:27:14.63\00:27:16.87
and my parents
were really struggling
00:27:16.90\00:27:18.30
in their relationship.
00:27:18.33\00:27:20.14
They weren't
expecting to have another child,
00:27:20.17\00:27:21.80
so I was a
surprise at that point.
00:27:21.84\00:27:24.34
But I was very happy as a child
00:27:24.37\00:27:26.68
and I was very loved in my home.
00:27:26.71\00:27:28.74
Unfortunately,
my parents' marriage
00:27:28.78\00:27:31.05
really dissolved within
the first five years of my life
00:27:31.08\00:27:34.05
and when I was
only six years old,
00:27:34.12\00:27:35.52
they decided that
they were gonna separate.
00:27:35.55\00:27:38.22
So, my, myself, my
siblings, and my mother,
00:27:38.25\00:27:42.86
moved into a
low-income housing development
00:27:42.89\00:27:45.23
in a neighboring town.
00:27:45.26\00:27:47.00
And it was there
that I met a young girl
00:27:47.03\00:27:49.30
who lived down the street.
00:27:49.33\00:27:51.07
So she was my same age
00:27:51.10\00:27:52.77
and she was actually
being sexually abused
00:27:52.80\00:27:55.54
by someone else in her life.
00:27:55.57\00:27:58.77
I found that out a
couple of years later,
00:27:58.81\00:28:01.41
as a result of a conversation
she was having with me.
00:28:01.44\00:28:04.91
But when we first met,
00:28:04.95\00:28:07.35
she was learning these
things through the abuse
00:28:07.38\00:28:09.68
that she shouldn't
have known about her body
00:28:09.72\00:28:11.62
at such a young age.
00:28:11.65\00:28:13.09
So she was
exploring sexually on her own,
00:28:13.12\00:28:17.49
and with this person,
and then she started sharing
00:28:17.56\00:28:19.53
that knowledge with me.
00:28:19.56\00:28:21.03
So I was very young
when I started interacting
00:28:21.06\00:28:23.37
sexually with this girl.
00:28:23.40\00:28:25.13
I was probably
seven or eight years old.
00:28:25.17\00:28:27.67
And so this opened up
all of this knowledge for me
00:28:27.70\00:28:30.31
that I also shouldn't
have known at that age.
00:28:30.34\00:28:32.61
And so these sexual experiences
continued with her for years
00:28:32.64\00:28:37.45
and other girls came and went.
00:28:37.48\00:28:39.25
And this opened up a door
for sexual addiction for me
00:28:39.28\00:28:42.22
at a very young
age, not just with her
00:28:42.25\00:28:45.95
but also through masturbation.
00:28:45.99\00:28:47.46
And as I grew older,
00:28:47.49\00:28:50.96
I really started to
start looking at the boys
00:28:50.99\00:28:54.83
in my class, not,
00:28:54.83\00:28:57.47
not in a way that I was
really attracted to them,
00:28:57.53\00:29:00.87
I guess in fifth
grade, you shouldn't be,
00:29:00.90\00:29:03.34
but I started
seeking out the attention
00:29:03.37\00:29:05.34
of the boys in my class.
00:29:05.37\00:29:06.71
And I think that
really came as a result
00:29:06.74\00:29:09.08
of being
overexposed to the media
00:29:09.11\00:29:12.15
through television, and
radio, and Hollywood movies,
00:29:12.18\00:29:16.08
those things
were off-limit, those,
00:29:16.12\00:29:18.09
nothing was off-limits to
me as far as those things went,
00:29:18.12\00:29:20.59
when I was young.
00:29:20.62\00:29:21.96
And my parents not
really being available for me,
00:29:21.99\00:29:25.26
I gravitated
towards those things.
00:29:25.29\00:29:27.13
And I think if we
look at the media,
00:29:27.13\00:29:29.23
a woman's power is found
00:29:29.26\00:29:31.03
in gaining the
attention and possessions
00:29:31.07\00:29:33.97
from the opposite sex.
00:29:34.04\00:29:35.37
And as a very young girl,
00:29:35.40\00:29:36.74
I started
seeking out the attention
00:29:36.77\00:29:38.11
of the boys in
my class even though
00:29:38.14\00:29:39.74
I didn't really
have crushes on them,
00:29:39.77\00:29:41.34
but I wanted to convince
other people that I did.
00:29:41.38\00:29:44.15
I don't know if
this was solely from
00:29:44.18\00:29:47.68
just kind of taking on
the persona of the woman
00:29:47.72\00:29:51.12
that I saw, that
looked confident,
00:29:51.15\00:29:53.15
because I had no confidence
00:29:53.19\00:29:54.56
or if it also
was kind of a desire
00:29:54.59\00:29:56.93
to look normal
like the other girls
00:29:56.96\00:29:59.09
who did have
crushes on the boys.
00:29:59.13\00:30:01.00
So this opened up
sexual experiences from me.
00:30:01.03\00:30:04.87
As a young teenager, I started
00:30:04.90\00:30:07.20
interacting with the boys
sexually as well as the girls.
00:30:07.24\00:30:10.47
Was your mom
noticing these changes in you?
00:30:10.51\00:30:14.04
How was she dealing
with that if she noticed it?
00:30:14.08\00:30:17.01
That's a good question, Yvonne.
00:30:17.05\00:30:18.45
Unfortunately, I lived
with my mom for a few years
00:30:18.48\00:30:20.92
but then I moved
in with my father.
00:30:20.95\00:30:23.12
And so my mom moved to Illinois,
00:30:23.15\00:30:25.19
she moved states away.
00:30:25.22\00:30:26.55
So she wasn't really a
prominent part of my life
00:30:26.59\00:30:29.66
and my dad was
working a lot, his schedule,
00:30:29.69\00:30:32.53
his work and sleep schedule
were highly fluctuating.
00:30:32.56\00:30:36.23
So this was why I was
left kind of to my own,
00:30:36.26\00:30:39.03
a lot, as a young girl.
00:30:39.07\00:30:40.70
So my parents didn't really,
I don't think they recognized
00:30:40.77\00:30:44.24
these dynamics
going on in my life.
00:30:44.27\00:30:47.01
But having moved
away from Wyoming
00:30:47.04\00:30:49.48
where I grew up into
the Pacific Northwest,
00:30:49.51\00:30:51.71
where it's a very
liberal mentality,
00:30:51.75\00:30:53.75
and gay pride is everywhere,
00:30:53.78\00:30:56.05
I really started
stepping into an idea,
00:30:56.08\00:30:58.55
well, maybe this is
okay and I can live this way.
00:30:58.59\00:31:00.99
And I made a huge collage
on one of the walls in my room
00:31:01.02\00:31:05.56
that was all photos of women.
00:31:05.59\00:31:07.96
And my father could see
that and he is not a Christian,
00:31:08.00\00:31:12.27
and he took me aside one
day and basically told me that,
00:31:12.30\00:31:16.00
he said, "It's
okay if you're different
00:31:16.04\00:31:19.11
than most everyone
and no matter who you are,
00:31:19.14\00:31:21.01
I'm still gonna love you."
00:31:21.04\00:31:22.58
And I knew at that point
he was basically telling me
00:31:22.61\00:31:24.95
it was okay if I was gay,
even though he never said that.
00:31:24.98\00:31:28.35
And my life really took a
turn, I think at that point.
00:31:28.38\00:31:32.82
Not only from,
from the acceptance
00:31:32.85\00:31:36.39
that I had from my father
00:31:36.42\00:31:37.76
but also just from the
music that I was listening to,
00:31:37.79\00:31:41.56
that was becoming
increasing rebellious.
00:31:41.60\00:31:44.00
I just decided I wasn't going
to live like anybody told me
00:31:44.03\00:31:47.87
that I needed to anymore,
00:31:47.90\00:31:49.24
and I was just gonna
walk out into the world.
00:31:49.27\00:31:51.67
And that was around the time
that I came out as bisexual,
00:31:51.71\00:31:55.64
and I really think that as
I started to place my identity
00:31:55.68\00:31:59.71
away from what
the word of God said,
00:31:59.75\00:32:02.02
because I had been
studying a little bit
00:32:02.05\00:32:03.69
the Adventist
message with a neighbor,
00:32:03.72\00:32:06.52
when I started
to, to put my identity
00:32:06.55\00:32:09.59
in what Satan was
telling me, was who I was,
00:32:09.62\00:32:12.43
instead of walking
00:32:12.46\00:32:13.80
with what the word of
God was revealing to me.
00:32:13.83\00:32:16.40
I really placed myself
in a dangerous position
00:32:16.43\00:32:19.23
and I walked out into a
very dark and scary place.
00:32:19.27\00:32:23.00
I can't really explain
in words what that became,
00:32:23.04\00:32:25.91
in just a few short years,
00:32:25.94\00:32:27.44
I was struggling with
multiple drug addictions,
00:32:27.48\00:32:30.85
severe emotional mood swings,
00:32:30.91\00:32:33.52
and anxiety attacks, depression.
00:32:33.58\00:32:35.98
I was dabbling in witchcrafts,
so I was hearing voices,
00:32:36.02\00:32:38.75
and seeing shadows crawl.
00:32:38.79\00:32:40.12
It became a very, very
dark and scary place for me.
00:32:40.16\00:32:42.56
And I lived that on the outside.
00:32:42.59\00:32:44.93
I mean, I had a
Mohawk for four years
00:32:44.96\00:32:47.96
that was all different colors,
00:32:47.96\00:32:49.30
I wore a
five-inch platform boots
00:32:49.33\00:32:50.73
that came up to
my knees, I mean,
00:32:50.80\00:32:52.67
I was constantly
in this character,
00:32:52.70\00:32:56.27
this persona, then often
had devil horns or whatever.
00:32:56.30\00:32:59.64
I mean, I didn't
believe in God or Satan anymore.
00:32:59.67\00:33:02.38
And I really took on
this persona of someone
00:33:02.41\00:33:04.71
who is very dark and rebellious,
00:33:04.75\00:33:06.65
not just inside of my heart
but on the outside as well.
00:33:06.72\00:33:09.85
And I lived that way
for a number of years,
00:33:09.88\00:33:14.42
until one day, I was
desperate for a change.
00:33:14.46\00:33:17.43
I knew that life was
not what I wanted it to be,
00:33:17.46\00:33:21.33
but I didn't know how to change.
00:33:21.36\00:33:22.70
And one day, I just
was contemplating my life
00:33:22.73\00:33:25.37
and I heard this, that voice
00:33:25.40\00:33:27.20
that I'd never really
heard before and it said,
00:33:27.24\00:33:28.94
"Danielle, you've got to change.
00:33:28.97\00:33:30.31
You're going to die."
00:33:30.37\00:33:31.71
And that was when I knew
that I needed to really wake up
00:33:31.74\00:33:34.54
and do something about
the position that I was in.
00:33:34.58\00:33:37.88
And I knew the one
change I could make was
00:33:37.91\00:33:39.71
to move away from the, the city
00:33:39.75\00:33:41.85
and move back into the country
with my father, so I did that.
00:33:41.88\00:33:44.85
And one by one, the
Holy Spirit began to show me
00:33:44.89\00:33:48.26
other things that I
could change as well.
00:33:48.29\00:33:49.99
I started
getting off of the drugs,
00:33:50.03\00:33:51.53
I started going vegan
mostly for animal rights reasons
00:33:51.56\00:33:54.20
but there were other things too.
00:33:54.23\00:33:56.60
When every step that I
took in the right direction
00:33:56.63\00:33:59.90
allowed my mind
to become more clear
00:34:00.04\00:34:01.70
for the Holy Spirit to
continue to speak to me and...
00:34:01.74\00:34:04.74
How did you find Jesus?
00:34:04.77\00:34:06.21
Well, that's a
really beautiful story
00:34:06.24\00:34:08.31
that, I mean, we could
spend a whole day talking about.
00:34:08.34\00:34:11.81
To sum that up, my sister
00:34:11.85\00:34:13.95
who also had been
studying the Bible
00:34:14.02\00:34:16.28
with that Adventist neighbor,
eventually was baptized
00:34:16.32\00:34:19.55
and eventually ended up
marrying that neighbor boy
00:34:19.59\00:34:21.62
that we were studying with.
00:34:21.66\00:34:23.29
And her and her husband went out
00:34:23.32\00:34:24.93
to one of her
health institutions,
00:34:24.96\00:34:27.13
and it was there that
I really started to see
00:34:27.20\00:34:30.37
who Christ was.
00:34:30.43\00:34:31.77
I started to see what it
meant to live like a Christian
00:34:31.80\00:34:34.54
and even though you
might not be perfect,
00:34:34.57\00:34:36.77
that you walk with him,
00:34:36.81\00:34:38.14
and if you
fall, you get back up.
00:34:38.17\00:34:40.04
And God sent
multiple messages into my life
00:34:40.08\00:34:42.98
through different people
00:34:43.01\00:34:44.35
to really show
me who Christ was.
00:34:44.38\00:34:46.92
And that was what I lacked.
00:34:46.98\00:34:48.32
I lacked a true understanding
of God and His character.
00:34:48.35\00:34:50.95
And it was
through finally seeing Him
00:34:50.99\00:34:52.59
that I was ready and
willing to surrender,
00:34:52.62\00:34:55.19
not only my sexuality
but all of the other things
00:34:55.22\00:34:57.49
that I was holding on to.
00:34:57.53\00:34:58.86
Praise the Lord. It's beautiful.
00:34:58.89\00:35:02.23
Last but not
least, brother Wayne.
00:35:02.26\00:35:04.90
I'm on way.
00:35:04.93\00:35:07.44
Well, you know, we're referred
to as extreme conversions,
00:35:07.47\00:35:11.54
but I just wanna say that
00:35:11.57\00:35:13.81
any conversion should
be an extreme conversion.
00:35:13.88\00:35:18.38
I was born to a
mother who was adamant
00:35:18.41\00:35:21.08
about not wanting a boy.
00:35:21.12\00:35:23.42
She hated boys,
she only wanted girls,
00:35:23.49\00:35:26.69
and so within the
first two years of my life,
00:35:26.76\00:35:30.03
she had broken my arm
in two different places.
00:35:30.06\00:35:33.29
And my father
was in the Air Force,
00:35:33.33\00:35:36.20
so he wasn't home that much.
00:35:36.23\00:35:38.27
He came home and recognized
00:35:38.30\00:35:40.64
that, yeah, we really
do have a problem here,
00:35:40.70\00:35:43.10
and so he reached
out to an aunt and uncle
00:35:43.14\00:35:48.44
who were aware of the situation
and they began to pray,
00:35:48.48\00:35:53.68
and consider that
00:35:53.72\00:35:56.32
they would make a
proposition to my father,
00:35:56.35\00:35:59.09
and that they wanted
to permanently adopt me.
00:35:59.12\00:36:03.32
And now they
see me passed around
00:36:03.36\00:36:05.59
to find a place of comfort,
00:36:05.63\00:36:09.03
just all that passing around
added confusion to my life.
00:36:09.06\00:36:13.47
Well, my birth mother had
really already done the damage,
00:36:13.54\00:36:17.21
prenatally, by
only desiring a boy
00:36:17.24\00:36:20.91
and, only desiring a
girl, and then when I'm born,
00:36:20.98\00:36:24.28
being a boy and
physically harming me.
00:36:24.31\00:36:27.85
So at three years old,
00:36:27.88\00:36:29.72
I'm running around
the house screaming,
00:36:29.75\00:36:31.65
"I don't want to be a
boy. I want to be a girl."
00:36:31.69\00:36:34.59
And so people asked,
"Well, how could that be?
00:36:34.62\00:36:36.96
If you hate women so much,
00:36:37.03\00:36:38.63
how come you
wanted to become one?"
00:36:38.66\00:36:40.10
But, but what was
the detachment was that,
00:36:40.13\00:36:43.83
that my mother didn't
want me unless I was a girl
00:36:43.87\00:36:47.20
and so, could I
possibly get that love
00:36:47.24\00:36:50.17
if I could just be that girl?
00:36:50.21\00:36:52.31
And I begin to adopt
more creative types of things.
00:36:52.34\00:36:57.71
I began to be acting
more like a girl than a boy.
00:36:57.75\00:37:01.62
I was interested
in playing with dolls,
00:37:01.65\00:37:03.55
and dressing up like girls,
and entering beauty contests,
00:37:03.62\00:37:07.39
you know, but they
were, you know, "my own."
00:37:07.42\00:37:09.59
And when I
entered school, I was,
00:37:12.76\00:37:15.66
I was teased from the
very first day to the last.
00:37:15.70\00:37:18.27
I didn't know how I
would make it through
00:37:18.30\00:37:20.64
12 years of school.
00:37:20.67\00:37:22.00
And even in the
process of all of that,
00:37:22.04\00:37:24.31
my teachers were not
particularly helpful.
00:37:24.34\00:37:26.04
I had a Bible teacher
that joined in in the teasing
00:37:26.07\00:37:28.58
and the harassing of me as well.
00:37:28.61\00:37:30.35
I couldn't find a
place that was "safe",
00:37:30.38\00:37:33.42
you know, that we
want to call today.
00:37:33.45\00:37:35.05
But safety is not
in providing a space
00:37:35.08\00:37:38.15
in which somebody can
be who they want to be,
00:37:38.19\00:37:42.49
sexually safe places
and to coming to find out
00:37:42.52\00:37:45.89
what Jesus desires
for you and for your life.
00:37:45.93\00:37:48.80
That's, that's a great point
00:37:48.83\00:37:50.53
because with the
whole transgender emphasis,
00:37:50.57\00:37:55.17
the idea of a safe environment
00:37:55.20\00:37:58.51
is let your
charges be what they...
00:37:58.54\00:38:01.21
Dictated to you
whatever, yeah. Wanna be.
00:38:01.24\00:38:02.91
Yeah, but you're saying
00:38:02.94\00:38:04.81
that that's really
not a safe environment.
00:38:04.85\00:38:07.15
But the safety comes from?
00:38:07.18\00:38:09.32
The only safety, and...
00:38:09.35\00:38:13.72
We can be anything we want
to be by our own definition,
00:38:13.79\00:38:19.36
unless Jesus is in the picture.
00:38:19.39\00:38:21.26
And if Jesus is in the
picture and we go to His word,
00:38:21.30\00:38:25.40
we go to His love
letter to find out
00:38:25.43\00:38:27.34
what is His desire for my life,
00:38:27.37\00:38:29.27
because we all arrive
with a whole bunch of junk,
00:38:29.30\00:38:32.34
we have the stain of sin on us.
00:38:32.37\00:38:35.18
And so we're all tempted with
all kinds of different things.
00:38:35.21\00:38:38.01
It's just that we didn't
talk in this denomination
00:38:38.05\00:38:40.52
and probably many others
00:38:40.55\00:38:42.12
for many, many
years about homosexuality.
00:38:42.15\00:38:44.69
But that began to
develop in my life.
00:38:44.72\00:38:47.16
I wanted male affirmation.
00:38:47.19\00:38:49.06
I figured that that
would become the place
00:38:49.09\00:38:51.86
where, where I would find
the strong masculine figure
00:38:51.89\00:38:55.60
that would maybe love me
and give value to my life.
00:38:55.63\00:38:59.03
And so in all my confusion
00:38:59.07\00:39:01.20
and all the years of
teasing and harassment,
00:39:01.24\00:39:04.24
and not talking
about in the church,
00:39:04.27\00:39:06.24
it basically turned out that
00:39:06.27\00:39:08.08
the church was
pushing me out of the doors
00:39:08.11\00:39:10.18
by not having the conversation.
00:39:10.21\00:39:13.38
And so at 18 years old,
00:39:13.45\00:39:16.92
I'm working at
Lomalinda University
00:39:16.95\00:39:19.55
as a unit secretary,
00:39:19.59\00:39:21.49
there's an orderly there
who was always making me laugh.
00:39:21.52\00:39:24.73
He said I needed to call
his roommate and I finally did.
00:39:24.76\00:39:27.86
And his roommate said,
"Hey, Wayne, you are gay."
00:39:27.86\00:39:30.37
And I'm like, "Wow, I'm just
talking to you on the phone.
00:39:30.40\00:39:32.80
What is this thing gay?"
00:39:32.83\00:39:34.24
You know, and he says, "Well,
you like guys, don't you?"
00:39:34.27\00:39:37.41
And I said, "Yeah, I
guess so. I don't know.
00:39:37.44\00:39:40.98
I didn't ask to be
like this, you know."
00:39:41.01\00:39:42.74
And he said, "Oh,
you need to come over
00:39:42.78\00:39:44.15
when you get off work."
00:39:44.18\00:39:45.51
And so I did and
he was a nice guy
00:39:45.55\00:39:47.72
and we got to
talk in for a while.
00:39:47.75\00:39:49.18
And he said,
"Do you know, Wayne?
00:39:49.22\00:39:52.52
Adventism breeds homosexuality."
00:39:52.55\00:39:55.52
And I said, "Wow, where
on earth do you get that?
00:39:55.56\00:39:58.89
How could you
make such a remark?"
00:39:58.93\00:40:00.60
And he said, "Well,
you're gay. I'm gay.
00:40:00.63\00:40:03.33
I go to college with a bunch
of other guys who are gays.
00:40:03.37\00:40:07.10
So the church has done
a great job of telling us
00:40:07.14\00:40:08.94
that homosexual
behavior is sinful.
00:40:08.97\00:40:11.41
And then nothing.
00:40:11.44\00:40:16.41
They don't
instruct, they don't guide,
00:40:16.44\00:40:19.25
they don't offer help.
00:40:19.28\00:40:20.62
They just tell you
that homosexuality is sin."
00:40:20.68\00:40:23.75
And so what happens to bacteria
when you put it in the dark?
00:40:23.79\00:40:29.89
It grows, and grows, and grows.
00:40:29.92\00:40:32.23
And so is it just this
way about homosexuality?
00:40:32.26\00:40:35.13
Or is it this way also about
pornography, about adultery,
00:40:35.16\00:40:38.80
about premarital
sex, about anything
00:40:38.83\00:40:41.30
that would distance
us from Jesus Christ?
00:40:41.34\00:40:43.44
If we're not talking
about the very thing,
00:40:43.47\00:40:45.61
He's asking us to
surrender and helping us know
00:40:45.64\00:40:49.01
that we're in an
environment of other people
00:40:49.04\00:40:51.08
that are His children as well
00:40:51.11\00:40:52.68
and can be the
family He intended us to be,
00:40:52.71\00:40:56.12
then we're really at a loss
00:40:56.15\00:40:57.62
and so people are just
praying in church today,
00:40:57.65\00:41:00.66
in many places, and praise God,
00:41:00.69\00:41:03.53
God is taking
this into environments
00:41:03.56\00:41:05.83
of where there are hungry people
00:41:05.86\00:41:08.10
that recognize that our
message isn't a message of hate.
00:41:08.13\00:41:12.30
It's a message of love.
00:41:12.33\00:41:14.20
We were there,
we grew, we lived.
00:41:14.24\00:41:16.50
I lived for 40
years in the gay culture,
00:41:16.54\00:41:18.81
desperately
seeking that one person
00:41:18.84\00:41:21.54
that I would fall in love with,
that would give me meaning.
00:41:21.58\00:41:25.28
I lived for 12 years
in male prostitution.
00:41:25.31\00:41:29.42
And I was hoping that
I would meet that one man
00:41:29.45\00:41:32.39
whether it'd be through,
00:41:32.42\00:41:33.76
through his
affections towards me,
00:41:33.82\00:41:36.32
or through money,
or through something,
00:41:36.36\00:41:38.69
it would give me some
kind of a stamp of approval.
00:41:38.73\00:41:41.73
And yet, I couldn't find it.
00:41:41.76\00:41:44.33
And in the mean time,
00:41:44.37\00:41:45.70
all my friends
started dying from AIDS.
00:41:45.73\00:41:48.77
And I came to a point in
my life, eight years ago,
00:41:48.80\00:41:54.54
where I sat in the
comfort of my own bedroom
00:41:54.58\00:41:58.21
and it's interesting
00:41:58.25\00:42:01.08
what the Holy Spirit
will do if you're listening.
00:42:01.12\00:42:03.92
Because He really shook me.
00:42:03.99\00:42:07.79
And I realized
that I was the one
00:42:07.82\00:42:10.53
that should be dead
00:42:10.56\00:42:11.89
and for some reason, my
life was being preserved.
00:42:11.93\00:42:16.40
And this whole
time, this whole 40 years,
00:42:16.43\00:42:20.24
I have two parents
who are praying for me.
00:42:20.30\00:42:22.64
And we talk to a
lot of parents today
00:42:22.67\00:42:24.91
who want to see a
new life in the morning.
00:42:24.94\00:42:28.98
You know, they want
someone to be changed
00:42:29.01\00:42:31.41
but the Holy Spirit can't reach
somebody who's not ready yet.
00:42:31.45\00:42:36.15
And yet, those
prayers that are prayed,
00:42:36.18\00:42:38.59
God hears every
single one of those prayers.
00:42:38.62\00:42:41.52
He's got those,
holding those in reserve,
00:42:41.56\00:42:45.33
so that when that person
00:42:45.36\00:42:47.30
is finally at a
place in their life
00:42:47.36\00:42:49.36
where the only
thing they can see is up.
00:42:49.40\00:42:53.10
They've reached their bottom,
they've reached their low.
00:42:53.13\00:42:56.94
Now they're listening, the
Holy Spirit can go to work.
00:42:56.97\00:43:00.28
And so I began to realize
that what this is really about.
00:43:00.31\00:43:05.15
Our life on this earth is about
00:43:05.18\00:43:06.92
developing
intimacy with Jesus Christ,
00:43:06.95\00:43:09.12
not intimacy with the world.
00:43:09.15\00:43:10.59
Amen. That's right.
00:43:10.62\00:43:11.95
And the Holy Spirit is actually
working on you the whole time.
00:43:11.99\00:43:14.89
You know, bringing you to that
place of surrender, so that,
00:43:14.92\00:43:19.59
'cause we can't even
come to Him on our own,
00:43:19.63\00:43:22.80
He, it's because of Him,
we can finally just confess,
00:43:22.83\00:43:27.40
so He was working on you,
00:43:27.44\00:43:30.01
bringing you to
that place of surrender.
00:43:30.07\00:43:32.41
And at what point did you do it?
00:43:32.44\00:43:34.14
You know, I was confounded.
00:43:35.68\00:43:39.98
I thought, "Wow! Why
is this happening to me?"
00:43:40.02\00:43:43.55
And I felt driven to
look on the internet to see
00:43:43.59\00:43:48.16
how had the
church finally developed
00:43:48.19\00:43:49.99
and outreached to somebody
00:43:50.03\00:43:51.89
who suffered from
same sex attraction.
00:43:51.93\00:43:54.83
And I couldn't find that
the church had done that,
00:43:54.83\00:43:57.53
but I found a lady
who had been reaching out
00:43:57.57\00:44:01.37
to those who are identified
as gay or same sex attracted.
00:44:01.40\00:44:05.27
And she began to help
me in recognizing the call
00:44:05.31\00:44:08.81
that Jesus had on my life.
00:44:08.84\00:44:10.75
And one day,
again, I was in my bedroom
00:44:10.78\00:44:14.25
and I've been reading,
00:44:14.32\00:44:15.65
I've been reading
the beautiful book
00:44:15.68\00:44:17.02
called "Desire of ages."
00:44:17.05\00:44:18.42
And as I read the book
00:44:18.45\00:44:20.59
and as I began
to study the Bible,
00:44:20.66\00:44:22.56
I was at the
foot of my bed sobbing
00:44:22.59\00:44:25.23
and, and saying,
"God, I don't know.
00:44:25.26\00:44:27.86
I don't know how
you can forgive me
00:44:27.93\00:44:29.23
because I've lead so many people
00:44:29.26\00:44:31.03
in the wrong direction.
00:44:31.07\00:44:32.40
You know, I've caused other
people to stumble and to fall."
00:44:32.43\00:44:35.54
And yet I was convicted
about what I was reading
00:44:35.57\00:44:38.21
and that He said, "This
is why I went to the cross,
00:44:38.24\00:44:41.74
to shed my blood for you.
00:44:41.78\00:44:44.15
This pays for it, Wayne,
and life can change for you.
00:44:44.21\00:44:48.58
All you have to do is
accept Jesus into your heart."
00:44:48.62\00:44:52.99
And I said, I will be yours,
00:44:53.02\00:44:55.99
now I need You to
reveal Yourself to me."
00:44:56.02\00:44:59.39
I ended up
walking into the church.
00:44:59.43\00:45:02.03
And a pastor gave a
sermon asking us to turn to page
00:45:02.06\00:45:08.17
or to text, Philippians
4:13, and I had a Bible with me,
00:45:08.20\00:45:12.91
that I hadn't
opened in 35 years,
00:45:12.94\00:45:14.84
and a friend had given it to me.
00:45:14.88\00:45:16.58
And when I got
to there, it said,
00:45:16.61\00:45:18.98
"Wayne can do all
things through Jesus Christ."
00:45:19.01\00:45:21.85
Amen. How beautiful.
00:45:21.88\00:45:24.42
Wow.
00:45:24.45\00:45:27.26
All I can say is,
well, what you guys are doing
00:45:27.29\00:45:29.69
in your ministry
is absolutely amazing.
00:45:29.72\00:45:32.09
I mean, we live in a
day and age not with,
00:45:32.13\00:45:35.20
not just with homosexuality
00:45:35.23\00:45:37.63
but everything that is
against the word of God
00:45:37.67\00:45:41.04
is being promoted and glorified.
00:45:41.07\00:45:43.37
You know, Satan knows that
00:45:43.41\00:45:44.74
his time on this earth is short.
00:45:44.77\00:45:46.74
And each day that passes by
brings us closer to going home.
00:45:46.78\00:45:51.38
He's trying everything
in his power to get us lost.
00:45:51.41\00:45:56.02
I mean, even
people in the church,
00:45:56.05\00:45:57.65
whether it's pulling
them super conservative,
00:45:57.69\00:46:00.29
or ultra
conservative, or whatever,
00:46:00.32\00:46:02.89
over super
liberal, where anything goes
00:46:02.92\00:46:06.26
and, you know, you're
a Christian in name only.
00:46:06.29\00:46:09.33
However you fall out
the boat, he doesn't care
00:46:09.36\00:46:11.33
as long as you're
miserable with him.
00:46:11.37\00:46:12.70
That's right.
00:46:12.73\00:46:14.07
So, you know, it's
important to stay focused
00:46:14.14\00:46:18.61
and stay grounded on the word.
00:46:18.64\00:46:20.41
And you guys are going
around, you're opening up,
00:46:20.48\00:46:23.08
you're being vulnerable,
you're allowing God to use you.
00:46:23.11\00:46:26.72
And I'm just amazed
by, by your ministry.
00:46:26.75\00:46:31.19
You know, Jason, I
would just like to go back
00:46:31.22\00:46:33.12
to the beginning of
how we opened this program
00:46:33.15\00:46:37.53
and about praying the gay away.
00:46:37.56\00:46:40.96
Actually to be honest with you,
00:46:40.96\00:46:43.73
the only way that
gay stays away from me
00:46:43.77\00:46:45.83
is in maintaining an
unbroken relationship
00:46:45.87\00:46:48.47
with Jesus Christ.
00:46:48.50\00:46:49.84
It is only through
prayer and through study
00:46:49.87\00:46:52.87
that the things
that would pull us,
00:46:52.91\00:46:54.78
that the worldly
things that would pull us away
00:46:54.81\00:46:56.95
no matter what it is,
00:46:57.01\00:46:58.35
if we're in a
constant state of prayer,
00:46:58.38\00:47:00.35
that's how sin stays away.
00:47:00.38\00:47:02.68
Abide in me,
Jesus says. Abide in me.
00:47:02.72\00:47:06.79
You guys have an
incredible documentary.
00:47:06.82\00:47:10.96
I was just about
to say. Oh, see, see.
00:47:10.99\00:47:14.83
We call it, God's
family. Absolutely.
00:47:14.83\00:47:17.63
And we've aired it here
at 3ABN and on Dare to Dream
00:47:17.67\00:47:21.34
and we're gonna continue
to air it on Dare to Dream,
00:47:21.37\00:47:24.01
and I'm sure on 3ABN as well.
00:47:24.04\00:47:26.57
We have a trailer
that we're gonna show
00:47:26.61\00:47:29.38
that kind of tells
what it's all about,
00:47:29.41\00:47:32.95
it gives your story.
00:47:32.98\00:47:34.92
Let's take a look.
00:47:34.95\00:47:36.28
When I was growing up,
00:47:42.49\00:47:43.83
I never found anyone really
talking about the gay issue,
00:47:43.86\00:47:46.80
in fact, every
reference that was made
00:47:46.83\00:47:49.26
about the gay issue in
those days was a, a slur.
00:47:49.30\00:47:55.37
I remember I would go home
00:47:55.40\00:47:57.01
and I would go into our bathroom
00:47:57.07\00:47:58.77
that had a door on either
side and I would lock both doors
00:47:58.81\00:48:01.41
and I would look in the mirror
00:48:01.44\00:48:02.78
and I would punch
myself in the face.
00:48:02.81\00:48:04.85
And I would scream at
God and I would yell at him
00:48:04.88\00:48:07.25
and I would say, "Why God? Why?
00:48:07.28\00:48:10.72
Why did you create a boy
00:48:10.75\00:48:12.19
when I was
supposed to be a girl?"
00:48:12.22\00:48:13.89
In the Bible, we're talked about
00:48:17.56\00:48:18.89
homosexuality
being an abomination.
00:48:18.93\00:48:20.93
And I got angry at God.
00:48:20.96\00:48:22.36
I said, "How dare you
00:48:22.40\00:48:24.30
say that I'm an abomination
when you made me this way?
00:48:24.33\00:48:26.53
That's not fair. I
didn't choose this thing.
00:48:26.57\00:48:28.74
I didn't want this thing.
00:48:28.77\00:48:30.31
And as hard as I fought
to, to not be those things,
00:48:30.34\00:48:33.51
and I prayed, and I
asked You to change me,
00:48:33.58\00:48:35.11
You never didn't,
so this is who I am.
00:48:35.14\00:48:37.58
Take it or leave it."
00:48:37.65\00:48:38.98
And the church
has done a good job
00:48:39.01\00:48:40.45
by telling us that
homosexual behavior is sinful.
00:48:40.52\00:48:43.59
And that's the end
of the conversation.
00:48:46.62\00:48:48.56
If I'm a lesbian,
I'm just, you know,
00:48:48.59\00:48:51.36
that's sin and sin equals death,
00:48:51.39\00:48:54.10
so why would I join a
religion that tells me
00:48:54.10\00:48:56.63
that I'm just gonna
die for being who I am.
00:48:56.67\00:48:58.73
So being a Christian is
about being saved from sin.
00:48:58.77\00:49:03.14
So then the question
is, well, what is sin?
00:49:03.17\00:49:05.87
And that is the human condition,
00:49:05.91\00:49:07.31
it's that we are drawn to things
00:49:07.34\00:49:09.91
that are harmful to us.
00:49:09.94\00:49:12.01
We need something
else to draw us away
00:49:12.05\00:49:15.48
from self-destructing.
00:49:15.52\00:49:18.65
It doesn't
matter what you've done,
00:49:18.69\00:49:20.02
He will always love you.
00:49:20.09\00:49:22.62
But He's not gonna drag
you kicking and screaming.
00:49:22.66\00:49:26.29
And that was a
whole new concept.
00:49:26.33\00:49:27.66
He said, "You're my son.
00:49:32.33\00:49:37.01
And I don't
condemn you as a sinner.
00:49:37.04\00:49:39.91
I died for your sins,
00:49:39.94\00:49:41.94
but I asked for you to
give yourself over to me
00:49:41.98\00:49:45.28
because there's a better way."
00:49:45.31\00:49:46.82
What a powerful piece of work.
00:49:59.19\00:50:02.20
Absolutely. Journey Interrupted.
00:50:02.23\00:50:04.97
And we were so blessed
to be able to air it here.
00:50:05.00\00:50:08.34
And we thank you for your work
and all that you've been doing.
00:50:08.37\00:50:12.47
What kinds of reception
00:50:12.51\00:50:14.71
have you received
with all of these,
00:50:14.74\00:50:19.35
like with, with
your particular ministry,
00:50:19.38\00:50:21.52
what kind of
reception have you received,
00:50:21.55\00:50:23.59
first within the church,
and then from society at large?
00:50:23.65\00:50:27.46
You know, what's powerful is
00:50:27.52\00:50:29.46
we had an opportunity,
00:50:29.49\00:50:30.83
just be Wayne and
I, and Pastor Deena,
00:50:30.89\00:50:32.93
and what our hope is,
really for the last five years,
00:50:32.96\00:50:37.00
is that we can
turn the church around
00:50:37.03\00:50:39.10
to be more opened
to, to this issue.
00:50:39.13\00:50:41.87
Not just this issue but people
that struggle with anything.
00:50:41.90\00:50:44.61
And Pastor Deena's church
was really, in my opinion,
00:50:44.64\00:50:47.51
the example of what
all churches should be.
00:50:47.54\00:50:50.51
There were protests going on
00:50:50.58\00:50:52.15
and the gay affirming Christians
00:50:52.18\00:50:53.95
were promoting this,
this protest and so...
00:50:53.98\00:50:57.35
Protest against you?
00:50:57.42\00:50:59.35
Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Against your ministry. Wow.
00:50:59.39\00:51:02.09
And so here at
the LGBT, you know,
00:51:02.12\00:51:04.96
community came out and
they had their banners,
00:51:04.99\00:51:07.86
and their signs, and
these little Filipino ladies
00:51:07.86\00:51:10.63
in their Sabbath
dresses come out and they say,
00:51:10.67\00:51:12.53
"If you have to use the bathroom
00:51:12.57\00:51:13.90
or if you get
tired, come in and sit,
00:51:13.94\00:51:15.54
we have muffins for you,
00:51:15.57\00:51:17.17
and hot chocolate, and water..."
00:51:17.21\00:51:18.61
And they're passing this out,
00:51:18.64\00:51:19.97
and these
protestors are looking at them.
00:51:20.04\00:51:22.28
It was like, what?
00:51:22.31\00:51:23.65
And then at lunch time,
the pastor comes out himself
00:51:23.71\00:51:26.35
to one of the protestors
holding a flag and he says,
00:51:26.38\00:51:28.62
"You know, come inside.
We've made haystacks for you."
00:51:28.65\00:51:31.25
And the guy's like, "No,
I have to hold the flag."
00:51:31.29\00:51:33.42
And he goes, "No,
let me hold the flag
00:51:33.46\00:51:35.39
while you come in and eat."
00:51:35.42\00:51:37.19
And there was that pastor
holding the flag for the LGBT,
00:51:37.23\00:51:40.26
you know, community
while they came in and ate
00:51:40.30\00:51:42.36
and that is the example
00:51:42.40\00:51:45.03
of what the
church needs to be now,
00:51:45.07\00:51:47.27
to help people like us.
00:51:47.30\00:51:48.74
That's what we
were hoping to find
00:51:48.77\00:51:50.34
when we came
back into the church
00:51:50.37\00:51:51.74
and that helps us to realize
00:51:51.77\00:51:54.44
that it is making
a difference in that,
00:51:54.48\00:51:56.61
we have to show
people Christ's love first,
00:51:56.68\00:51:59.61
meet them where they are.
00:51:59.65\00:52:01.05
You know, as we
address our needs
00:52:01.08\00:52:02.75
and then call
them to follow Christ.
00:52:02.78\00:52:04.39
Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
00:52:04.42\00:52:06.89
Wayne, what have you seen?
00:52:06.96\00:52:08.36
Well.
00:52:08.39\00:52:09.72
It's been mixed,
you know, but, you know,
00:52:09.76\00:52:12.53
I have to remember
Jesus and His ministry.
00:52:12.56\00:52:14.83
Jesus had the greatest
love that's, ever existed
00:52:14.86\00:52:18.53
and yet people,
they spit in His face,
00:52:18.57\00:52:21.44
they refused Him, you know,
00:52:21.47\00:52:23.04
He hung on a
cross and died for them.
00:52:23.07\00:52:25.41
And so, it's
interesting in our life today
00:52:25.44\00:52:28.01
that adversity
comes from, from outside
00:52:28.04\00:52:30.41
and it comes from inside too.
00:52:30.45\00:52:32.45
But it's from a
lack of understanding
00:52:32.48\00:52:34.18
and the peace
that we have is that,
00:52:34.22\00:52:36.69
it's because
someone hasn't known
00:52:36.75\00:52:39.69
what's possible
through Jesus Christ.
00:52:39.72\00:52:41.76
Absolutely.
00:52:41.79\00:52:43.12
And that's the key, you know,
00:52:43.16\00:52:44.59
knowing what is
possible to Jesus,
00:52:44.63\00:52:47.86
what Jesus can do,
00:52:47.93\00:52:49.23
not just with
homosexuality but any sin,
00:52:49.26\00:52:52.40
that's what,
that's what's so beautiful
00:52:52.43\00:52:53.97
about what you guys do,
00:52:54.00\00:52:55.34
you give tools to
overcome sin in general.
00:52:55.37\00:52:58.84
And I know that our
viewers want to contact you.
00:52:58.87\00:53:02.31
Let's take a look and
find out just how to reach you.
00:53:02.34\00:53:07.15
If you would like to
contact Coming Out Ministries
00:53:07.22\00:53:09.75
or find out more about them,
00:53:09.78\00:53:11.72
you may write to
Coming Out Ministries,
00:53:11.75\00:53:14.29
PO Box 701,
Battle Ground, WA 98604.
00:53:14.32\00:53:19.66
That's Coming Out Ministries,
00:53:19.69\00:53:21.26
PO Box 701,
Battle Ground, WA 98604.
00:53:21.30\00:53:26.80
You may call (360) 936-8514.
00:53:26.84\00:53:30.97
That's (360) 936-8514.
00:53:31.01\00:53:35.48
You can also visit them online
at ComingOutMinistries.org.
00:53:35.51\00:53:39.75
That's
Coming-Out-Ministries.org.
00:53:39.78\00:53:43.85
Contact them today.
They'd love to hear from you.
00:53:43.89\00:53:46.72