Participants: John Lomacang (Host), John Stanton & John Dinzey
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY017011A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I wanna spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I wanna spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I wanna spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:07 Hello, friends, and welcome to 3ABN Today. 01:09 My name is John Lomacang. 01:10 Thank you for taking the time to tune into a program 01:13 that promises to be informative and very Bible-based. 01:18 For all intents and purposes, 01:19 this is a Bible study on a very important topic, 01:23 one that has evolved to some degree 01:26 into a level of controversy 01:28 around the Christian world 01:30 and also our church is not exempt in that area. 01:33 The doctrine of the Trinity, the Godhead, 01:36 the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 01:39 So you wanna hit record, 01:40 and let me just establish a disclaimer 01:42 from the very beginning. 01:44 In the time that we have remaining in this program, 01:46 it is not possible to go through all the Bible texts, 01:49 so what we're gonna hope to do 01:51 is to address some of 01:52 the specific issues of controversy 01:55 and give the answers from the word of God. 01:57 We're gonna walk some through the history of our church, 02:00 the development of our beliefs, 02:02 and then if you have any questions 02:04 that you'd like to send to us, via email, or a snail mail, 02:09 we will also welcome that 02:10 because we want to be clear that 02:12 what we believe is in fact founded on God's word. 02:17 I have with me today... 02:20 For I think providential reasons, 02:22 I'm John and I have two other guys 02:25 that are named John. 02:26 How that happened? 02:28 It's a providential thing. 02:29 To my right is Pastor John Stanton. 02:31 Good to have you here, John. 02:32 Good to be here, John. 02:34 And to my far right is Pastor John Dinzey. 02:36 Good to have you here, John. 02:37 Thank you. Good to be here, John. 02:40 We thought it was pretty interesting 02:43 that the Lord allowed all three of us 02:46 to have the name John, 02:48 because each one of us at one point 02:50 or the other has hosted, 02:51 I have hosted house calls together. 02:53 Sometimes John Stanton and John Dinzey, 02:56 or John Dinzey and John Lomacang, 02:58 or John Stanton and John Lomacang, 03:00 any number of combinations. 03:03 Best to say first, second, and third John are here today 03:06 and how fitting it is that 03:08 we're talking about the Godhead, 03:09 where three are one. 03:11 I would like to lead into this by saying each one of us 03:14 has the same name John, 03:16 but we are all independently individual, 03:19 and we're gonna leave it there. 03:21 But we're gonna go to some music first. 03:22 We have music that always begins our program 03:24 and cheers our heart. 03:26 Today we have music that's gonna bring to you 03:29 a message of encouragement. 03:30 We'd like you to sit back 03:32 and listen to it as God blesses your heart. 04:08 My peace 04:12 I give 04:14 Unto you 04:19 It's a peace 04:22 That the world cannot give 04:30 It's the peace 04:32 That the world 04:35 Cannot understand 04:40 Peace to know, 04:45 Peace to live 04:50 My peace 04:53 I give unto you 05:06 My love 05:09 I give unto you 05:16 It's a love 05:19 That the world cannot give 05:27 It's the love 05:29 That the world 05:32 Cannot understand 05:38 Love to know, 05:43 Love to live 05:47 My love 05:50 I give unto you 05:59 It's a love 06:02 That the world 06:04 Cannot understand 06:10 My love 06:15 I give 06:21 Unto you 06:41 Thank you for that wonderful song, 06:43 "My peace I give unto you." 06:45 Veronica Boyd Gillis, always a wonderful minister. 06:49 We are gonna take advantage of the time we have remaining 06:51 and I am going to ask my John Stanton, 06:56 Pastor Stanton and Pastor Dinzey 06:59 to begin with an opening statement. 07:02 I shared mine just a moment ago 07:03 but as we're gonna talk about 07:05 the evolution of the belief of the Godhead, the Trinity. 07:09 Pastor Stanton, you are now on the west coast 07:12 in the, what conference? 07:14 Upper Columbia. Upper Columbia Conference. 07:16 And in the position of dealing with pastors and... 07:20 Yeah, I'm Personal Ministries Director 07:22 but have a chance to kind of not only mingle 07:26 and help pastors in the area of personal ministries 07:28 but dialogue a lot about the current issues. 07:30 Right. 07:32 And so we are seeing some of a resurgence, 07:34 a bit of a resurgence here 07:35 in the anti-trinitarian aspect of things. 07:39 And so it's something that has brought me back to study 07:44 and it's one of the things that brought us 07:45 probably to this program here. 07:47 But it's a challenge because there are people 07:50 that insist on going back to the pioneer days, 07:53 what people believed back then 07:55 and only what they believed back then, 07:57 rather than understanding that our church has, over time, 08:01 developed its doctrines and the truce we have today. 08:03 That's right. 08:04 And if you go back too far, and you wanna stick to just 08:07 what they believe, there's a lot of other baggage 08:09 that comes with that, 08:11 that we don't necessarily or readily even accept today. 08:14 So we'll talk about some of those things 08:16 I think during this program, 08:17 but it's caused me to kind of re... 08:19 Not only study it again but reaffirm my belief in the way 08:23 that we understand the doctrine of the Godhead or the Trinity. 08:26 Okay, Pastor Dinzey. 08:28 Yes. Coming... 08:30 I guess I have come from the perspective 08:32 of the Spanish community. 08:33 In the Spanish community as well, 08:35 this has been something 08:37 that people have had difficulty with, 08:40 I would say accepting the idea of God in three persons. 08:46 And so there have been things printed 08:50 and things put on video 08:53 that have caused concern 08:54 and has caused some people to waiver 08:56 in understanding that God 08:59 has given the Seventh-day Adventist Church truth, 09:02 that are solid truths. 09:04 And when we look at this topic in its purity 09:08 and search it out 09:11 and I asked the Lord for understanding, 09:12 I believe that God has sufficient information 09:15 in the scriptures to help us understand that, yes, 09:20 there are three persons in the Godhead. 09:22 Okay. Amen. 09:24 I think a good place to begin is in the beginning. 09:27 Now there are three beginnings in the Bible. 09:29 I call them the two additional Genesis. 09:32 Obviously, Genesis, and then you have Hebrews, 09:35 and you have John. 09:36 These three books... 09:37 So let's just go ahead and begin in the beginning, 09:39 let's start with Genesis chapter 1. 09:41 Let's go to Genesis chapter 1 and look and as you get there, 09:48 I have my tried and true, broken in Bible, 09:53 and I thank Rochelle, John Stanton's wife 09:57 for fixing my Bible case. 10:00 It's been a lifesaver for me. 10:02 But, John, begin with... 10:05 Stanton, begin with verse one and two of Genesis chapter 1. 10:09 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 10:13 The earth was without form, and void, 10:16 and darkness was on the face of the deep. 10:19 And the Spirit of God 10:20 was hovering over the face of the waters." 10:23 Okay. 10:25 And let's start with a, 10:26 let's start with a basic question on that. 10:30 When you read this text, 10:31 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." 10:34 I wanna go to a couple of other passages. 10:36 Anything you wanna add to that, Pastor Dinzey? 10:41 This passage helps us to understand that 10:44 we did not come by chance and interestingly enough, 10:49 there are scriptures that say, 10:52 God created and identifies the Father, 10:54 God created, identifies the Son, 10:57 and also God created and identifies the Holy Spirit. 11:01 So if you go to... 11:02 Let's go to the next one, Genesis 1:26. 11:05 So we're gonna get the, 11:06 we're gonna get the expanded view of God 11:09 in verse 26 and 27. 11:10 Pastor Dinzey. 11:12 "And God said, 'Let us make man in our image, 11:15 after our likeness. 11:17 And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea 11:21 and over the fowls of the air and over the cattle 11:23 and over all the earth and over every creeping thing 11:26 that creepeth upon the earth.' 11:28 So God created man in His own image, 11:30 in the image of God created He him, 11:32 male and female created He them." 11:35 Now something that comes out there, 11:37 anything you wanna add to that, Pastor Stanton? 11:39 No, I just think it's kind of notable 11:41 that they're talking about God in a plural form. 11:43 Right. Clearly that's the case. 11:46 And then you go to, 11:47 you go back to verse 27, it says, 11:49 "And God created man in His own image." 11:55 The word 'own' was added for clarification, 11:59 but in His image, so His, you find, 12:03 if you were to try to dissect this passage 12:07 and come up with, one, was it Him? 12:11 Was it them? 12:13 And you go further down 12:17 and you begin to see, when God said, "and let..." 12:20 God said, "Let us make man in our image." 12:23 So we have an us, an our, and a His own, 12:27 to clarify the position of God. 12:29 Now the question is, 12:30 who is God that did this creating? 12:34 Now let's go to John chapter 1. 12:36 And I'm gonna have Pastor Dinzey lead out on that. 12:39 I'm using the last name, 12:40 so that we don't all answer at the same time. 12:44 To say, John is a quandary 12:48 when we all have the same first name. 12:50 But it's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. 12:52 It's a good thing. John chapter 1. 12:54 John chapter 1:1. 12:57 "In the beginning was the Word, 12:59 and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." 13:05 Shall we continue verse 2 and 3. 13:07 "The same was in the beginning with God. 13:09 All things were created by Him, 13:11 and without Him was not any thing made that was made." 13:15 And verse 4. 13:16 So verse 4 says, "In Him was life, 13:18 and the life was the light of men." 13:19 Okay. 13:21 So we got to break this down, in a sense, 13:22 anything you wanna add to that, Pastor Stanton? 13:24 No. 13:26 I think one of the things 13:27 that we can find from the first verse 13:28 that we read in Genesis 1 13:30 is you find God mentioned and you find the Holy Spirit 13:32 mentioned in as agents of creation. 13:35 Here you're finding, then in the beginning, Jesus, 13:40 who is the word there as well. 13:41 So we've already in the text 13:43 that we've covered have seen three beings within the Godhead 13:50 who were part of the creation story. 13:53 And if you add verse 14 to that, 13:55 do you have that, John,... Stanton? 13:56 It says, "And the Word became flesh, 13:58 and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, 14:00 the glory of the only begotten of the Father, 14:02 full of grace and truth." 14:04 So what we have right now is we have the word with God, 14:07 the word is God, and the word that was with God, 14:11 and the word that is God, 14:13 became flesh and dwelt among us. 14:15 And we know in Matthew 1, 14:18 I believe it's verse 21, it says, 14:19 "Call His name Jesus, 14:22 for He will save His people from their sin." 14:25 Now we wanna go now... 14:27 Anything you wanna add to that, Pastor Dinzey, 14:29 before we go to Psalms 90, 14:30 because I'm talking about the creative process right now 14:33 when we establish the creator. 14:35 Yes, I would like to point out here that when it says, 14:39 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God." 14:44 The same was in the beginning with God 14:46 and all things were made by Him. 14:47 I want to say that the word which is Jesus as we... 14:51 Has already been pointed out, does not have a beginning. 14:55 So Jesus Christ has existed forever in the past. 14:58 If you go... 15:00 If you're able to look way in the past, 15:03 you can keep going and going and not see a beginning date 15:07 for the existence of Jesus Christ, the Son. 15:10 Go to Psalms 90 and read verse 1 and 2 15:12 to emphasize that every point. 15:13 Ah, very good. 15:15 Psalms 90:1 and 2. Psalms 90. 15:19 And 84, 90:1 and 2. 15:24 Thus it is written as the Bible says, 15:25 "Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place 15:28 in all generations. 15:29 Before the mountains were brought forth, 15:31 or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, 15:36 even from everlasting to everlasting, 15:38 thou art God." 15:40 Okay. 15:41 So when the Bible says, 15:44 "Formed the earth and the world..." 15:46 We just read in John, 15:48 without Him nothing was made that was made. 15:52 We clearly see that the word that became flesh, 15:55 according to the Bible, formed the earth and the world. 16:00 John 1, Genesis chapter 1, without Him nothing was made. 16:04 Now when the Bible says, in the beginning, 16:06 this is farther back. 16:08 Can we agree on that? 16:09 This is farther back than the creation of earth. 16:13 Yes. That's right. 16:14 This is in the beginning, 16:17 and the beginning is better described here in Psalms, 16:20 from everlasting to everlasting. 16:24 How far back is everlasting? 16:28 Can we give a date to that? 16:29 Eternal past. Eternal past. 16:31 And, right, I think we mentioned this, 16:32 we talked about this before, 16:34 eternity has a past as well as a future. 16:38 So when the Bible says... 16:40 Now this is what I'm gonna establish the divinity 16:42 and the eternity of Jesus. 16:44 Because when you use the word Jesus, 16:47 it is only found in the New Testament, 16:50 but tying Jesus into the creation 16:53 as Genesis 1 does and John 1, 16:55 and then we go now to Psalm 90, 16:58 even from everlasting to everlasting, 17:01 you are God. 17:02 So somebody might say, "Wait a minute, wait a minute, 17:04 Jesus is not God. 17:05 I know the Word became flesh and the Word was God, 17:08 and the Word was with God." 17:09 But Hebrews 1 now has to be added to the equation." 17:12 Yes. Okay? 17:14 Hebrews 1 has to be added to the equation, 17:16 so that we could unequivocally 17:17 come up with the conclusion that 17:20 when the Bible says God, 17:21 it is very much talking about Jesus, all right? 17:25 Anything else you wanna add before we go to Hebrews 1? 17:27 And Colossians 1 as well, 17:28 we'll have to finish up with that. 17:29 Oh, yeah, matter of fact, Colossians 1 is gonna go next, 17:31 but Hebrews 1, you have that? 17:33 Hebrews 1. Hebrews 1. 17:35 Yes. 17:36 That's by the way, I call this the third Genesis. 17:39 We're gonna read verse 1. 17:42 Matter of fact, 17:45 we can go to 1 and 2, 17:50 and then we're gonna go down to verse 8. 17:55 Hebrews 1:1-8. 17:57 Yeah. No, 1 and 2, and 8. 17:59 Okay. 1, 2 and 8. 18:01 "God, who at sundry times 18:03 and in diverse manners spake in time past 18:06 unto the fathers by the prophets, 18:08 hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, 18:12 whom He hath appointed heir of all things, 18:14 by whom also He made the worlds." 18:17 Okay, so He, by the Son He made the worlds. 18:20 Yes. Okay, but now did... 18:23 Is the Son God? 18:25 Look at verse 8, Pastor Stanton. 18:28 "But to the Son, He says, 18:29 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. 18:32 A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." 18:35 So another word for, ever and ever is, 18:37 everlasting to everlasting. 18:39 That's right. Amen. 18:41 So you see right away, we've... 18:42 According to the scriptures 18:43 and I wanna shy away from the fact 18:45 that we have established, 18:46 but the scriptures have established 18:48 the eternal nature of the Son, 18:51 and I use the word Son, so I don't say Jesus, 18:54 because people will say, 18:55 "Well, He wasn't called Jesus in the eternity past. 18:58 His name was called Jesus in His incarnation." 19:02 But now, John, lead us into... 19:04 Now where are you? Colossians... 19:06 Colossians 1. Okay. 19:08 Beginning with the verse 15, it's known sometimes by those 19:12 who study the scriptures as the Christ hymn. 19:16 So Paul is sharing then a hymn 19:18 that was sung by the early church. 19:21 And it begins by this, it says in verse 15, 19:24 "He is the image of the invisible God, 19:25 the firstborn over all creation. 19:28 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven, 19:31 and are on the earth, visible and invisible, 19:34 whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers. 19:37 All things were created through Him, and for Him. 19:41 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." 19:45 The emphasis there is, all. That's right. 19:48 Before everything, not just before the world, 19:50 before the heavens. 19:51 That's right. 19:53 And the heavens then... 19:55 From going back way 19:56 to the beginning of the heavens, 19:57 which the heavens did have a beginning, 19:59 were created by Jesus. 20:00 That's right. 20:02 And so I think even more this is emphasizing 20:04 the eternal nature of Christ, past and future. 20:10 Can we add anything to that, Pastor Dinzey? 20:12 No, I think that's... 20:15 It's so marvelous to me, 20:17 how the Bible's so clear in its declaration 20:19 of the pre-existence of Christ prior to the time 20:24 He shows up as a human being. 20:27 And so as you read John 1, it says, "In Him was life, 20:31 and the life was the light of men." 20:32 In Him, He is the resurrection and the life. 20:35 In Jesus Christ is life, original, unborrowed, 20:38 underived, He exists. 20:41 As a matter of fact, you can carefully show, 20:44 there are scriptures that show 20:45 that Jesus also takes on the name 20:48 in the Old Testament described as, 20:50 Yahweh or as some people say, Jehovah. 20:53 You can connect the Old Testament 20:54 and New Testament, 20:56 and see scriptures where Jesus makes declaration. 20:57 John chapter 8, He says, "Before Abraham was, I am." 21:02 That's right. 21:03 And that shocked the scribes and the pharisees, 21:05 because they knew He had just used the words 21:09 that is in the Old Testament. 21:10 He says, "I am that I am." That's right. 21:12 They knew exactly what He was saying. 21:13 They knew exactly, 21:15 that's why they wanted to stone Him. 21:16 Yeah. That's right. 21:17 And I am is ever present, I am doesn't have a beginning, 21:19 I am doesn't have an end. 21:20 That's right. 21:22 I am is in the context of present, 21:23 I am, not I was. 21:25 I always exist. I always existed. 21:27 That's the ever present nature of the Son. 21:31 It's amazing to me that there's so much question here, 21:36 now in Colossians, read that again. 21:38 What verses did you cite in Colossians, again? 21:40 I read 15-17. 21:43 Okay. 21:44 Colossians 2? 1. 21:46 Colossians 1:15-17. 21:49 Going back to that, I wanna look at that, 21:51 "He is the image of the invisible God." 21:55 So as He said to Thomas, who doubted, 22:01 show me the Father. 22:03 And He said, "Have I been with you so long 22:06 that you have not seen the Father. 22:08 If you have seen Me..." 22:09 You have what? 22:11 "You have seen the Father. 22:12 By Him..." 22:14 Verse 16, "all things were created 22:16 that are in heaven, 22:17 and that are on earth, visible and invisible, 22:20 whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers. 22:23 All things were created through Him, and for Him." 22:27 In verse 17, it's huge 22:29 and I don't wanna run past verse 17 22:30 because what we're seeing here, 22:32 a couple of things that are being mentioned, 22:34 in the beginning was the word. 22:36 In the beginning, how far back is the beginning? 22:38 Everlasting. 22:40 How far is the future? 22:41 Everlasting, when it comes to Jesus. 22:43 But the point that I wanna make here is if He was created 22:49 or as some people twist the phrase of the word, 22:51 begotten, if He came forth from the Father, 22:55 as the Father's first 22:57 and then He begets or births a son, 23:03 then He could not be before all things. 23:07 He would be not the creator but the created. 23:12 So the created cannot redeem the created. 23:19 He has to be the one 23:20 who brought humanity into existence 23:23 to qualify to be the one who redeems humanity. 23:27 Did you have a text you want to read 23:28 before I go to the next one? 23:31 Well, I wanted to say that one of the things that were... 23:36 We just shared several verses 23:40 that help us to understand something very significant 23:44 and that is the fact that Jesus Christ is the creator 23:49 and has no beginning, He has always existed, 23:53 but one other things that I also wanna point out is that 23:58 Jesus Christ is the creator, 24:04 but one of the verses I wanted to share in this respect, 24:08 it casing right now, but let me go back, 24:11 as soon as you keep talking, that will come back to me. 24:13 Okay. 24:14 Well, and I think the issue here is 24:16 and I know we only wish we had two programs on this. 24:19 But we've established very clearly, Jesus, 24:22 a person of the God who had separated from His Father. 24:25 That's right. 24:26 And that has had some challenge, 24:29 but not a significant amount of challenge within our church. 24:31 I know to a great degree it was, of course, 24:33 it began way back with 24:35 the Arian controversy, you know, 24:36 that's why we had the Council of Nicaea that met together 24:38 and everybody battled over 24:40 what is the truth in regard to God 24:42 and His personality with the scriptures. 24:44 But then it begs the question, where is the third person? 24:49 That's right. 24:50 Now, is the third person of the Godhead there 24:53 in the Old Testament? 24:54 Is He there in the New Testament? 24:56 See now... 24:57 I'm glad you went back all the way to... 24:59 Christians, through our history have looked 25:02 at the scriptures and sought, 25:05 seeking to understand Jesus the Son, 25:08 the Holy Spirit also, and they have struggled 25:12 with understanding all these things. 25:14 So you've mentioned the Arians 25:17 and this is where Seventh-day Adventists 25:19 differ as far as when you mention the word Trinity, 25:23 because the word Trinity means different things 25:24 to different denominations. 25:27 Some believe in The Trinity, as they call The Trinity, 25:31 that's why, to the point of thinking 25:35 that Jesus Christ had a beginning. 25:37 As you mentioned, some people say 25:38 He was begotten at some point in time, 25:41 that He didn't exist. 25:42 But He was begotten at some point in time, 25:44 and some people say, 25:45 "Well, He was created at some point in time." 25:46 No. 25:48 Jesus Christ has always existed and this is where we differ. 25:51 When we say the Trinity, we have to understand, 25:53 as Seventh-day Adventists, 25:54 we don't mean The Trinity as others mean the Trinity, 25:56 that Christ had a beginning. 25:58 Christ did not have a beginning, 25:59 He has always existed as we have already mentioned. 26:02 So when we say the Trinity, 26:04 those that believe that Jesus Christ was created, no, 26:07 we don't believe as you do in this respect 26:09 because the Bible says, 26:10 He did not have a beginning and that He was not created. 26:13 Matter of fact, Isaiah 9:6 brings that point out. 26:16 Look at Isaiah 9:6. Oh, wonderful. 26:17 And then we're gonna go into this Holy Spirit, 26:19 because that's where the big controversy, 26:21 some people think the Holy Spirit is a force, 26:23 something that's ethereal, if you get to Isaiah 9:6, 26:26 read that for us. 26:28 I am here. 26:29 This passage is so powerful 26:30 as it relates to the pre-existing 26:32 and the eternity of Christ. 26:34 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, 26:38 and the government will be upon His shoulder, 26:41 and His name will be called, 26:42 Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, 26:46 Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." 26:50 Everlasting, everlasting. 26:54 When does everlasting begin, everlasting, 26:57 from everlasting to everlasting. 27:00 But you also find here the unity 27:02 He has with the Father. 27:04 So much so that He's referred to as the everlasting Father. 27:07 Amen. 27:08 So clearly there's a unity here 27:10 that is expressed in the Old Testament. 27:14 I think one of the challenges with the Holy Spirit 27:19 is that you don't find 27:21 the Holy Spirit's role specifically defined 27:23 as much in the Old Testament. 27:25 It is much more defined in the New. 27:28 Jesus is very clear in His statement, in John 14 that, 27:33 that the disciples should pray 27:35 for the gift of the Holy Spirit, 27:36 and they will be given, in fact, 27:39 in that whole statement in John 14, He says, 27:42 basically, if you ask anything in regard to that, you know, 27:46 glorifying God, the Holy Spirit coming down, 27:48 doing His work through you, 27:49 I will do it. 27:51 You know, you just mentioned something that is powerful, 27:52 I've never even thought about that. 27:55 To this point, when Jesus says to them, 27:57 "Ask anything in My name." 27:59 You don't hear an angel, making that type of expression. 28:02 You can ask anything. 28:03 No angel has said this statement 28:06 because only the creator can make that statement. 28:10 There you go. Ask anything in My name. 28:12 Yeah. 28:13 So He has and He knows 28:15 what the disciples need and says, 28:18 "I will have my Father send you the gift." 28:20 Amen. 28:22 And He's saying that, He's not necessarily even saying, 28:23 I think in that verse, if you read it closely, 28:26 that the gift is just from Him. 28:27 Right. It's from His father. 28:28 That's right. 28:30 And it's a gift that they should earnestly seek 28:32 and that the gift will not come, 28:34 unless what happens? 28:36 Unless I leave. Unless He leaves. 28:39 So something is happening here where Christ ascends 28:44 and the Holy Spirit descends. 28:47 Then at Pentecost, 28:48 you have the disciples meeting together 28:50 and they are unified, 28:52 they're praying for the outpouring 28:53 of the Holy Spirit, it comes, 28:56 and it's an affirmation right there, 28:58 it's confirmation that Jesus is on the throne. 29:01 Amen, Amen. Wonderful. 29:03 That's the whole study by itself. 29:04 Yeah. 29:06 They can shout to the hilltops, 29:08 Jesus is now assumed His position 29:10 next to the Father and we have received His Spirit 29:13 and He now dwells with us through the agents 29:16 of the Holy Spirit. 29:17 But the Holy Spirit isn't just Christ's force. 29:20 No. 29:21 And this is what we wanna talk about, 29:23 it's not just the force. 29:24 He steps in as the agent of recreation. 29:29 Amen. So we talked about... 29:33 In Genesis 1:1-2, we talked about the Holy Spirit 29:37 hovering over the waters 29:39 and is active in the creation of the world. 29:43 Well, He's also active in the re-creation of mankind. 29:47 Yes, He is. 29:48 It's almost like He's specialized in that work. 29:51 That's right. 29:53 But clearly, He's different than Christ is, 29:57 who is sitting on the throne. 29:59 He's a separate distinct being of the Godhead. 30:02 And I think that's what we wanna kind of get into here 30:05 and I've got a lot of stuff. 30:06 I think we all have some things we can add to that. 30:08 Here's where we wanna, we wanna dive into John 16:13 30:11 and then we're gonna look at some passages in Acts 5. 30:13 But what we're gonna establish here clearly is 30:16 the work of the Holy Spirit 30:17 and also the divine origin of the Holy Spirit, 30:23 the separateness of the Holy Spirit. 30:26 Let's start with John 16. 30:29 And then Acts 5, Acts 5 has done a wonderful job. 30:35 In John 16:13, and I pass to Dinzey. 30:40 John 16:13. Yeah. We're gonna... 30:41 Let me just turn there. Yes. 30:44 And 30:46 John 16:13-15. 30:52 We're gonna see, we're gonna see 30:54 all three referred to clearly. 30:58 All right. Verse 13. 31:01 "Howbeit" or "However, when He, the Spirit of truth is come, 31:05 He will guide you into all truth, 31:08 for He shall not speak of Himself, 31:11 but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak, 31:15 and He will show you things to come." 31:18 Verse 14. 31:19 Verse 14, "He shall glorify me, for He shall receive of mine, 31:22 and shall show it unto you." 31:24 And verse 15. 31:26 "All things that the Father hath are mine. 31:28 Therefore said I, that He shall take of mine, 31:32 and shall show it unto you." 31:34 Okay. So right there in verse 15 brought all three. 31:37 Whatever the Father has is mine, 31:38 He, the Spirit will take what is mine and declare it to you. 31:43 But so, what do we see over and over 31:46 that shows us He is in fact a person. 31:49 He, He, He, He, 31:53 the pronoun of a designated 31:59 He, He, over and over, not a force. 32:03 It's a pronoun of an individual that has a will. 32:06 That's right. 32:07 And there's no doubt about that. 32:09 Anyone that doesn't have a will, 32:10 a separate will that can act as an individual, 32:13 you wouldn't give the pronoun, he or she, to. 32:15 I mean, it's just, that's the way our language works 32:18 and that's the intention of the Greek here as well. 32:20 That's right, that's right. And it's... 32:23 I made emphasis on, shall hear and speak... 32:27 That's right. 32:29 For that reason, because the Holy Spirit is a... 32:33 We use the word, a person. That's right. 32:35 And so there are some religious groups or individuals 32:40 that don't, do not believe the Holy Spirit is a person, 32:44 a divine being... 32:45 But as you mentioned 32:47 and Pastor Stanton has mentioned, 32:48 a force, and a force cannot hear, 32:51 and a force cannot speak. 32:53 That's right, that's right. Nor can a force... 32:55 Remember Romans 8, 32:57 nor can a force bring back to the Father, 32:59 telling the Father what our will is 33:02 or desires are when we pray. 33:04 Yes. That's right. 33:05 His functioning. That's right. 33:07 He hears, He speaks, He shows, He directs. 33:10 Well, and let me run down just really quick 33:12 for people that wanna study. 33:14 "He teaches the truth." John 16:13, just read... 33:16 Yeah, so good idea to write those down. 33:17 Yeah, He convicts of sin. John 16:8, He helps. 33:20 John 14:16. He testifies. 33:23 John 15:26. He guides. 33:25 John 16:13. He regenerates. 33:27 Ezekiel 36:25-27. He forbids and prohibits. 33:31 Acts 16:6. He commands. 33:33 Acts 16:67. He appoints. He leads. 33:37 He...I mean, it goes on and on and on. 33:39 He has a will and He's acting on behalf of God, the Godhead, 33:45 to regenerate, to move, to drive the actions of Christ, 33:51 His church, and His people. 33:53 Go to Acts 5. 33:55 Thank you, Pastor Stanton, for that. 33:56 In those characteristics, 33:58 those functions cannot happen in a force. 34:03 When Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, He says, 34:06 "The wind blows and you don't know 34:09 where it comes from, 34:10 you don't know where it's going." 34:12 And then He says, "So also is the Holy Spirit." 34:15 That's right. 34:16 You don't know where He's coming from, 34:18 you don't know where He's going, 34:19 but He didn't say the Holy Spirit is a wind. 34:22 Right. He didn't. 34:23 He didn't say the Holy Spirit is a wind. 34:25 The closest association you get with the wind, 34:27 He says... 34:28 And there was a sound heard as of a rushing mighty wind. 34:33 And the place that they were sitting was, 34:34 was, you know, they saw cloven tongues 34:36 as a fire and the place that they were sitting was shaken. 34:39 The power that was attending those in the upper room 34:43 on the day of Pentecost, 34:44 the Bible didn't say a wind came in there, 34:46 but they heard a sound like as of the rushing mighty wind. 34:49 Prime example, if you stood on the subway platform 34:51 in New York City, have you ever did that? 34:54 Have you ever done that? Oh, yes. 34:55 Well, not in New York, in Chicago. 34:57 New York and Chicago. 34:58 But if you're underground, like in London, 35:01 if you're underground, you hear the wind 35:03 but you're not gonna get on the wind to go anywhere, 35:05 you're gonna get on the train, 35:07 but the wind proceeds the approach of the train. 35:10 We say, you feel the breeze picking up and the strong... 35:13 You say, it's closer, it's closer, 35:15 and then all of a sudden, hoo, and the train is here. 35:19 In the very same way that the wind is blowing. 35:22 Acts 5, did I say Acts 5? 35:25 We're gonna look at a very wonderful example, 35:27 where now the apostle Peter makes a clear illustration 35:31 of connecting the Holy Spirit to God. 35:36 All right. Acts 5:3. 35:38 Now the story is, Ananias and Sapphira promised 35:40 to return to the Lord what He blessed them with. 35:42 He said, "The property that I'm getting... 35:44 Lord, we're gonna give you our property, 35:46 whatever you give to us, 35:48 we're gonna give it to the church." 35:50 But all of the sudden, the Lord blessed it as He said He would. 35:53 Pressed down, shaken together, 35:55 and they had more than they ever imagined, 35:57 and they planned amongst themselves, 36:01 "Well, nobody knows all this money is ours. 36:04 Let's go ahead and do something else with it." 36:06 They arrive at church and Peter is standing, 36:10 and Ananias is standing in front of Peter, 36:13 and Ananias lies to Peter about what happened. 36:17 Now verse 3, John, pick that up for us, Stanton. 36:19 Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart 36:22 to lie to the Holy Spirit? 36:24 And keep back part of the price of the land for yourself." 36:28 Okay. And then verse 5, verse 4. 36:32 "While it remained, was it not your own? 36:34 And after it was sold, 36:36 was it not under your own control? 36:39 Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? 36:41 You have not lied to men, but to God." 36:43 Okay. Who did he equate to be God? 36:48 The Holy Spirit. He said it clearly. 36:50 Not anything that we've come up with any twisted association, 36:53 you've lied, why has Satan filled your heart 36:56 to lie to the Holy Spirit? 36:58 You have not lied to men, but to God. 37:02 Here's the amazing thing about this. 37:03 We don't sit around in common language as buddies. 37:06 We don't hang out and go, 37:09 "Boy, that spiritual force that you just sent over to me, 37:11 boy, that was powerful." 37:13 I had... 37:14 We don't sit there talking about the force 37:15 that emanates from us. 37:17 Of course, we're not gods, so this is not a perfect example. 37:19 Right. 37:20 But if the Holy Spirit was not God, 37:23 neither would they stand around talking about the Holy Spirit, 37:26 they'd be talking about what God's doing through His power. 37:30 But they're talking about a distinct individual, 37:32 a being of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit, 37:34 and what He's doing according to His will. 37:37 That's right. 37:39 The language, even the language is written from scripture, 37:41 is not conducive 37:43 to the Holy Spirit being a force. 37:44 It just does not work, it doesn't fit. 37:46 You know, it does not work, you know, you used the example, 37:49 like a rushing mighty wind, at the same time, 37:52 you have another picture of God, 37:56 you have the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 37:58 When Jesus was baptized, we can turn there, 38:00 but I don't know if we have time, 38:04 where you see Jesus being baptized, 38:08 the Father saying, "This is my beloved Son." 38:11 And also the Holy Spirit descending like a dove, 38:14 and I meant to mention this because some people will say, 38:18 "Well, there you go like a rushing mighty wind." 38:20 But here the Holy Spirit descended like a dove, 38:23 does that mean the Holy Spirit is a dove? 38:25 No. No. 38:26 That's to help us understand the idea of softly coming, 38:32 it doesn't say the Holy Spirit descended like an eagle. 38:35 Right. 38:36 It was a gentle descending of the Holy Spirit. 38:40 Yeah. 38:41 Good association, gently, and the dove used in the ark, 38:44 also used showing the gentleness of Christ, 38:47 the gentleness of God. 38:49 Well, and we use the Holy Spirit 38:50 is referred to as a symbol of oil. 38:52 That's right. Yes. 38:54 There's lots of different symbols 38:55 there about the Holy Spirit, 38:56 it doesn't mean Holy Spirit is oil. 38:58 That's right. 38:59 So you can't, it doesn't work to associate that 39:01 it's really like a wind. 39:02 That's right. 39:03 In our modern society, we won't say 39:05 the Holy Spirit is gasoline 39:06 because we know that's combustible. 39:07 Right? Yeah. 39:09 Once again, a tender reference to the holiness of the Godhead. 39:11 Now you quoted a passage that... 39:16 I have to say, it's irrefutable. 39:18 There in Acts 5, it says, 39:20 "You have not lied to men but to God," 39:23 referring to the Holy Spirit. 39:25 That's irrefutable, I mean, it clearly says 39:27 the Holy Spirit is God. 39:29 And one of the issues that has been brought up 39:32 in this struggle that people have to understand 39:35 the Holy Spirit is, 39:37 "Well, you know, the Bible says, 39:39 'Worship the Son, and worship the Father, 39:40 but there's no scripture that says, 39:42 worship the Holy Spirit.'" 39:44 And that's true, you will not find a scripture 39:45 that says directly, worship the Holy Spirit, 39:47 but you find scriptures that say, worship God. 39:50 And if the Holy Spirit, as we just read, is God, 39:53 then it says you're supposed to worship 39:54 the Holy Spirit as well. 39:56 And I would say this. 39:57 It does say to worship God in spirit and truth. 40:01 Right. 40:02 And I'm glad you brought that up, because I was 40:04 just gonna say, very wonderful connection, 40:06 I was just gonna say... 40:08 So He's very much involved in how we worship. 40:10 That's right. 40:11 You cannot worship God apart from the Holy Spirit. 40:15 That's right. It's actually worse than that. 40:17 Here's what I fear that this doctrine, 40:20 this anti-trinitarian doctrine is doing. 40:23 It's actually removing some of what the Holy Spirit 40:28 can do in the lives of people, opened to Him as God, 40:32 regenerating and changing them. 40:34 It's quenching some of that work that's possible. 40:39 This may sound harsh, but it's, 40:41 the Holy Spirit brings truth to us. 40:43 Amen. 40:44 If you say the Holy Spirit doesn't exist, 40:46 how capable are you of receiving truth from Him? 40:50 Honestly. Oh, yes. 40:51 The Bible says He will guide us into our truth. 40:54 Yeah. And so you say, "Oh, the Holy Spirit will guide us. 40:56 But I don't believe it's actually a being of God." 40:59 So what does that... What does that do to truth? 41:01 Wouldn't it stifle it. 41:03 I would find probably, you'd be, 41:04 you'd be a lot more troubled 41:06 or it would bit more difficult for you to comprehend truth 41:09 when you're denying the Holy Spirit, 41:11 than if you accept Him in His fullness as God. 41:15 You know, I like to point this out 41:17 because some of the ideas 41:19 that people have brought out is that there are some... 41:24 There's at least one religious group 41:25 that believes in the Trinity and people say, 41:27 "Well, that's a pagan religion, that particular religion, 41:31 and they believe in the Trinity, 41:32 but we don't believe in "The Trinity" 41:34 as they believe in the Trinity, 41:36 because that group believes 41:37 that Jesus Christ had a beginning 41:38 and was created at sometime in the past 41:40 or came forth from the Father." 41:42 At the same point, 41:44 that religious groups also believes 41:46 that we should worship God in temples. 41:48 Does that mean we shouldn't worship God in church? 41:51 Well, no. 41:53 They have other beliefs that are biblical, but you see, 41:57 we have to see that it's in the scriptures, 42:02 the Holy Spirit as a person is in the scriptures. 42:05 If other people believe and they have error, 42:08 doesn't mean that is not in the scripture. 42:10 You have to look at the scriptures. 42:12 What do the scriptures say? 42:13 We are pointing scriptures that are very solid. 42:15 Evidence for the Holy Spirit is the person, 42:18 the Holy Spirit is God. 42:21 There was a list compiled by Dr. Shepherd up at Andrews, 42:26 of 40 different texts that actually are passages, 42:29 not one text but a passage 42:31 that refers to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, 42:34 in each of these passages. 42:37 So 40 times... We'll look at a few of those. 42:39 Forty times you have referenced, 42:41 Father, Son, Holy Spirit, in some capacity. 42:44 Now that doesn't... 42:45 You cannot say that in each of those cases, 42:48 it's just the two beings of the Godhead 42:49 and a passing reference to their force. 42:52 That's not what the Bible's trying to tell us. 42:53 The Bible is undeniably describing 42:58 the three-person Godhead. 43:00 Let's even make it, let's warm it up some. 43:02 Let's go to Matthew 12. 43:04 Matthew 12, the points that I really like you made here 43:08 is when you deny the existence of the person of Holy Spirit. 43:12 Oh, it's a very good point. 43:13 When you deny the existence 43:14 of the person of the Holy Spirit, 43:16 then you say, "Well, this force is of no value, 43:19 because it's just a force, it's just an impression, 43:22 it's just a feeling that I get." 43:24 Lot of people say, "I'm in the Spirit." 43:26 But they don't want to be in the truth. 43:28 You cannot be in the Spirit and not be in the truth. 43:30 It's not possible, because He is the Spirit of truth. 43:33 Amen. You see. 43:34 But look at this, this is even more powerful. 43:36 Matthew 12:31-32. 43:38 Stanton, could you read that for us, Pastor Stanton? 43:41 12:31-32. 43:43 "Therefore I say to you, 43:44 every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven unto men, 43:46 but blasphemy against the Spirit 43:48 will not be forgiven unto men." 43:49 And watch this, "Any sin will be forgiven but..." 43:53 Look at this, next verse, it heightens it. 43:55 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, 43:57 it will be forgiven him" 43:59 Pause. 44:00 So if you speak against Jesus, what happens? 44:02 He'll forgive you. But let's go on. 44:05 "But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, 44:07 it will not be forgiven him, 44:09 either in this age or in the age to come." 44:11 Can they be the same? That's very serious. 44:13 That's serious. Yeah. 44:15 And they can't be the same. 44:16 They cannot be the same because one will be forgiven, 44:18 one will not be forgiven. 44:19 And I think the point here is that 44:21 speaking out against the Holy Spirit, 44:24 in that you reject His act of His own will 44:27 to enlighten, and inspire, and to change, 44:30 and transform you, if you're denying Him 44:32 the ability to do that, how can He do it? 44:36 Let me show you why... 44:37 And by the way, not necessarily that cannot or I won't forgive, 44:41 but cannot because of the position that we're in. 44:44 That's right, cannot. 44:45 Well, I mean, how powerful is that? 44:48 It will not be forgiven him either in this age, 44:52 or in the world to come. 44:53 And don't picture a God that's turning His back. 44:55 No. 44:56 That's not what He's talking about. 44:57 He's talking about the persistence of rejecting 45:00 the work of the Spirit. 45:01 Now let me show you why you cannot be forgiven. 45:03 Go to John 16, Pastor Dinzey, 45:06 and read for us the verse 7... 45:11 John 16:7-9. 45:18 All right. 45:20 John 16:7-9. 45:22 This is why you cannot be forgiven. 45:24 John 16:7-9. 45:26 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. 45:28 It is expedient for you that I go away, 45:31 for if I go not away, 45:32 the Comforter will not come unto you, 45:34 but if I depart, I will send Him unto you." 45:37 Okay, now, let's pause before we go any further. 45:39 I've got to leave for Him to come, 45:43 therefore He's not here, but I'm here. 45:46 I've got to leave for Him to show up. 45:49 Can't be the same person. No. No. 45:50 If I don't leave, He is not coming. 45:53 Now I said we're gonna continue reading 45:55 to see why it's so dangerous 45:58 to deny the divinity of the Holy Spirit. 45:59 Keep going. Verse 8. 46:02 Verse 8, "And when He is come, 46:04 He will reprove the world of sin, 46:06 and of righteousness, and of judgment." 46:08 Okay. So what is His work? 46:10 To reprove of what? 46:12 Sin, righteousness, judgment. 46:14 So now you shut the person down 46:16 that's sort of proving you have sinned, 46:18 can you see your sin? 46:19 Serious. 46:21 So if you cannot see your sin because you shut off the light 46:24 that's pointing to your sin, 46:26 then you remain in sin and you cannot be forgiven. 46:30 Because if you don't know you have sinned 46:32 because you shut off the light that detects your sin, 46:34 then you cannot confess your sin. 46:36 Therefore, He cannot forgive you. 46:38 1 John 1:9. 46:39 "Therefore, you will not be forgiven 46:42 in this life or in the life to come." 46:45 Look at the next verse. 46:48 Verse 9. 46:49 Verse 9, "Of sin, because they believe not on me." 46:52 Verse 10. 46:53 "Of righteousness, because I go to My Father 46:55 and you see Me no more." 46:57 And verse 11. 46:58 "Of judgment, because 46:59 the Prince of this world is judged." 47:01 So you'll see clearly 47:03 if the Spirit of God is shutdown, 47:07 it's like turning off the convicting power, 47:10 that the Lord said "I've come..." 47:14 To get this, Jesus came and did His part. 47:17 Yes. He died... 47:18 He took our sin on Him, He took it to the cross, 47:22 He redeemed us. 47:23 He became sin for us, to redeem us from the curse 47:27 that was on us. 47:28 That curse of sin, He broke Adam's nature. 47:31 He said, "I did my part, but now I've got to leave, 47:33 because now I will forever possess human flesh. 47:36 I cannot be everyplace at the same time, 47:38 but I have to send somebody who can." 47:40 That's right. 47:41 Right? Yeah. 47:42 "I will never leave you, nor I'll never forsake you." 47:44 John 15:15. Look at the verse. 47:45 Verse 15. Okay. Look at that. 47:46 Read it, you have it? 47:48 "All things that the Father has are Mine." 47:49 Okay. Okay, that's who? 47:51 That's Father. John 15:15. 47:52 And that's Jesus. You said John 15:15? 47:56 John 15:15, "All that the Father has are Mine. 48:00 Therefore, I said that He, "the Holy Spirit," 48:02 will take of Mine and declare it to you." 48:04 You're sure it's 15? 48:07 Oh, 16:15, I'm sorry. 48:08 I didn't see the 16 up there. Okay, good. 48:10 My fault. Go one more time. 48:12 "So all things that the Father has are Mine. 48:15 Therefore, I said that He, "that's the Holy Spirit," 48:18 will take of mine and declare it to you." 48:20 Right. 48:22 So you have Jesus receiving from His Father, His will, 48:26 and Jesus then transitioning or transferring that will, 48:30 giving it to the Holy Spirit who then speaks 48:32 in His behalf to God's people. 48:35 So what happens when you, what happens when you... 48:39 So this middle connection, Father, this stuff... 48:44 "The things that You have belongs to Me, 48:47 why don't you give it to the Holy Spirit, 48:49 so that He could communicate it?" 48:52 And when the Spirit comes, 48:53 He's not speaking on His own authority. 48:56 Therefore, He cannot be Jesus, 48:58 He cannot be the Spirit of Jesus. 48:59 He's not speaking on His own authority. 49:02 And Jesus is going to the Father 49:04 and the Spirit is coming. 49:05 Pastor Dinzey. Yes. 49:07 I wanna say something really quick 49:08 because you mentioned earlier that some people wanna go back 49:12 to what the pioneers believed 49:13 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 49:15 Right. 49:16 Where do you wanna go, how far do you wanna go? 49:18 If you go in the beginning, they were smoking, 49:20 they were drinking, they were... 49:21 Eating pork. Eating pork. 49:24 Truth, God led them to discover truth. 49:27 Right. 49:29 And this is one of them that they did not study out. 49:32 And now let's go to the scripture 49:34 because time is short. 49:35 Romans chapter 8:26 and 27, a key scripture, 49:39 "Likewise the Spirit also helps in our infirmities. 49:42 For we know not what we should pray for 49:43 as we ought, but the Spirit..." 49:46 It uses the word 'itself' here, which is an error, 49:48 "but the Spirit Himself maketh intercession for us 49:51 with groanings which cannot be uttered. 49:54 And He that searches the hearts 49:56 knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, 49:58 because He maketh intercession for the saints 50:00 according to the will of God." 50:03 Now don't go too fast because the verse you just read, 50:06 verse 27, "Now He who searches the hearts, 50:10 "knows what the mind of the Spirit is." 50:12 The Lord who searches the heart, 50:14 knows the mind of the Spirit and it says continuing, 50:19 "Because He makes intersession for the saints." 50:22 The Lord is making intersession. 50:24 He knows the Spirit's heart. 50:25 They're working together to bring 50:27 our prayers to the Father. 50:28 Ain't that wonderful? 50:29 And the Holy Spirit knows the mind of God 50:31 because He's divine. 50:32 Yes. Amen. 50:34 And the Lord knows the mind of the Spirit, 50:35 but the last one I think we're gonna get in John, 50:37 Ephesians 4:30. 50:40 I'll go ahead, I have it open here. 50:43 Go ahead. But I'll go ahead and read it. 50:45 "And do not grieve, 50:48 The Holy Spirit of God, 50:51 by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." 50:56 How can you grieve a force? 50:59 You cannot. 51:01 The Holy Spirit. 51:02 You cannot grieve a force. 51:06 By grieving a force, 51:07 you cannot be sealed for salvation. 51:11 And that's why that's a sin that can never be forgiven. 51:13 We got about a minute left. 51:15 One of the ministers as far as 51:16 those that are are watching us, 51:18 that are Seventh-day Adventists, 51:20 one of the pioneers made some very clear statements 51:23 concerning the personality, the person of the Holy Spirit. 51:28 Ellen G White. 51:29 And if you need it, we'll send you those by email. 51:32 Wonderful, okay. 51:33 And we'll give you that email when the programme is done, 51:35 on how to get in touch with us 51:37 but, Pastor Stanton, 51:38 we have about 43 seconds before our news break 51:41 and we'll come back for a closing. 51:42 Well, I don't have anything revolutionary to say. 51:44 I think we went through the scriptures 51:45 very clearly here as to where our, 51:48 this truth is found in scripture 51:51 and biblically-based. 51:53 I think when you get into the nuances, the details... 51:56 Right. You can get convoluted. 51:57 So don't let... 51:59 Get caught up in the details 52:00 as far as all the minutia of history and this stuff, 52:03 go to the scriptures, 'cause they're clear, 52:05 I think we showed that today. 52:06 And we really hit on some key verses, 52:08 as I mentioned earlier, 52:10 it's not possible for all of them to be covered, 52:12 but we've covered some that are very clear, 52:15 Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. 52:17 We're gonna take a short news break 52:18 and we will be back for a few closing thoughts. |
Revised 2017-03-09