Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Karolyn Leonard, Pastor Thomas Ongasa, Richard Leonard
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY016059A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:29 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people. 01:07 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn. 01:08 And once again we welcome you to 3ABN Today. 01:11 We're just so thankful that you're taking this time 01:14 to spend with us, and I believe 01:16 you're going to be very inspired 01:18 by today's message. 01:20 We have some wonderful people here with us. 01:22 We're going to be talking about being fishers of men. 01:28 You know, in Mark 1, 01:31 Jesus is walking along the Sea of Galilee, 01:34 He sees Simon, Peter and Andrew, 01:36 and then he sees James and John, 01:39 the sons of Zebedee, 01:40 but He speaks to them in Mark 1:17, 01:44 "And He says to them, 'Follow me, 01:47 and I will make you fishers of men." 01:50 And I'm thinking that this is something God wants 01:54 all of us to be is fishers of men. 01:57 You know, when we go out to share the gospel 02:02 that is obedience to the great commission 02:06 and that's what God has called us to do. 02:09 Now, He didn't call us to be cleaners of the fish, 02:12 that's his job. 02:13 And I think that's where we get to midland sometimes, 02:16 but He does want us to be sharing the good news 02:20 of salvation by grace, the gift of God, 02:25 the wonderful gift of God, Jesus Christ. 02:28 So let me introduce you to our special guest. 02:31 Before I do, let me not forget to say, 02:33 thank you so much 02:35 for your prayers for this ministry 02:36 and your continued financial support, 02:38 because we wouldn't be here without you. 02:41 Now, our special guest today, we have Pastor Thomas Ongasa. 02:46 Did I say that correctly? Yes, correctly. 02:52 Wonderful, and you are from 02:54 the Democratic Republic of the Congo. 02:58 Exactly. 02:59 I'm from the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo. 03:02 How long have you lived there? 03:05 Living in Congo? 03:07 Oh, rest of my life, 03:09 but I left the Congo to come to the US, 03:12 May 18, 2016 just for this ministry. 03:18 Oh, wonderful. 03:19 So you have moved then from the Congo to the US, 03:22 is that correct? 03:23 No, I'm just coming to visit and promote this ministry. 03:26 I see, okay. Yeah. 03:27 Well, welcome Pastor Thomas, we're so glad to have you here. 03:30 Thank you. 03:31 And then we have Karolyn Leonard, 03:34 and Karolyn, you are the CEO of Train Them to Fish. 03:39 Yes, and we live here 03:40 on the side of the Atlantic Ocean. 03:43 Okay, but we're going to get to hear 03:45 a little bit of your story, and your husband, 03:47 we have Richard Leonard with us as well. 03:50 And, Richard, you are a board member 03:52 for Train Them to Fish, is that correct? 03:53 Correct. Correct. 03:55 So we're anxious to hear how two missionaries 03:59 who had retired I believe, but Africa was in their heart 04:04 and they want back to Africa and God used them 04:08 to raise up a wonderful ministry. 04:10 But before we get into the topic for today 04:14 and hear this wonderful story, 04:16 we have Jaime Jorge with us once again today. 04:20 And, are you familiar with Jaime? 04:22 He has such a gift from God. 04:24 He is a talented, talented violinist, 04:28 and he's going to play for us 04:29 "No One Ever Care for Me like Jesus". 08:08 Wasn't that beautiful. 08:09 We're so thankful for Jaime Jorge 08:11 and that he dedicates his talent to the Lord. 08:14 Well, if you're just joining us today, 08:15 we have three precious people with us here today 08:19 from Train Them to Fish 08:21 and that is Pastor Thomas Ongasa 08:24 and then we have Karolyn and Richard Leonard 08:27 with us as well. 08:28 And once again welcome. 08:30 Let's get just a little bit before we dive off 08:32 into the ministry that God has united 08:35 and bonded your hearts together. 08:37 Let's just talk a little about, 08:40 who are you Pastor Thomas Ongasa? 08:43 Yeah, I'm Pastor Thomas Ongasa as you've all said. 08:48 I'm Seventh-day Adventist ordained minister. 08:52 And the Lord called me to serve and, you know, I was born. 08:58 I want to tell you something special about me, 09:01 my mom used to be a Roman Catholic nun. 09:04 A Roman Catholic nun. Exactly. 09:07 And the Lord called us and she was baptized 09:10 and I was born as a Seventh-day Adventist, 09:13 raised as Seventh-day Adventist. 09:15 She was telling me that, you know, 09:17 I used to be a missionary so you my son, 09:19 you're going to take my place as a missionary 09:22 and she used to tell me that until she died... 09:25 Absolutely. 09:27 And she wanted me to become a missionary 09:28 and I praise the Lord because I'm a missionary now. 09:31 Absolutely, you know, that's an amazing thing, 09:34 because if your mother had not been converted 09:38 and become an Adventist, you wouldn't even been born 09:40 if she had been a Roman Catholic nun. 09:42 How amazing. My life is a grace. 09:45 Amen. 09:46 So I have to recognize that I was born by God's grace. 09:49 Absolutely, you were. 09:51 And God has really blessed you, 09:54 because you have been a pastor for how many years? 09:58 For 15 years so far. 10:00 Fifteen years, you're pastoring, 10:01 but you've already been the president of a conference 10:07 in the Democratic republic of Congo. 10:11 For six years you've served as the conference president? 10:13 Yeah. 10:15 Were you the youngest conference president there? 10:17 Yes, I used to be the youngest local conference president 10:20 in my division, the Eastern Central Africa division, 10:23 so I was serving as a local conference 10:26 in the South Kivu Conference 10:29 or South Kivu field in Eastern of Congo. 10:31 Oh, wonderful. Oh, wonderful. 10:33 We're just so pleased that your mother instilled in you 10:38 that need to serve the Lord, that desire to serve the Lord. 10:43 And you have three children, how old are your babies? 10:46 Oh, I have Anastasia my first born she's a daughter, 10:51 a girl, she's nine. 10:53 The second one is a boy Mr. Rafael, he is three, 10:57 and then the last one is a girl Karolyn. 11:01 She was named after Karolyn, the CEO, 11:04 because she is my best friend. 11:05 Oh, how precious. 11:07 And how old is the baby? The baby is 15 months. 11:11 Fifteen months, 15 months. Oh, that's precious. 11:13 So, Karolyn, before I ask you about your background, 11:18 how did you meet this young man? 11:21 Well, we met first of all with we mail him back and forth 11:26 regarding a mission trip and then we got acquainted, 11:30 better acquainted as we went on that mission trip in 2012. 11:35 So now, let's back up 11:38 and were you born in a Christian home? 11:41 I was and I'm very thankful for that. 11:43 So you were, was it an Adventist Christian home? 11:46 Yes. Okay. 11:47 And at what age did it become real to you? 11:52 I think mission work really solidified it. 11:56 Okay, so did you meet Richard... 12:00 Richard, were you a pastor? No. 12:03 No, but you were a missionary. 12:05 We headed this mission for eight and half years. 12:07 Okay, so were you also born in an Adventist Christian home? 12:11 Yes. All right. 12:12 How did the two of you meet? 12:13 Oh, usually I hear that that's a long story. 12:16 Give me the readers digest version. 12:18 It was at a... 12:21 Seventh-day Adventist retrieve for singles. 12:24 Okay. 12:25 And I have been with these types of people 12:28 who gave up and figure out I'll never get married 12:32 and so and so forth but the Lord... 12:34 I had on my protection down and met her 12:37 and let's just say the rest is history. 12:40 How wonderful, wonderful. 12:42 So you were a businessman 12:44 but then you became a missionary, 12:46 it's your part of Africa... 12:48 I was a plan engineer for hospital. 12:49 Okay. 12:51 And then we went to Rwanda 12:52 and that was all before the genocide. 12:55 Wow. 12:56 And then we went after that to Zimbabwe 12:59 and spent the rest of our time there 13:02 until I got sick and came home. 13:04 Okay, so how many years were you in mission field? 13:06 Eight and a half years. 13:08 All right, Karolyn, you said something 13:09 when I first met you. 13:11 You said that Africa is in your souls. 13:15 Oh, it is, we love Africa. 13:17 So you went back in 2012 to do a series of evangelism. 13:22 Yes. Is that what it was? 13:23 Yes. 13:24 So tell us something about that? 13:26 And we also had medical doctors coming and do free clinics. 13:29 Okay. That was really good. 13:30 All right, was this a ShareHim Project? 13:32 The first one was a ShareHim. 13:35 And then the next time we went back, 13:38 it was on our own. 13:39 All right, but where were you 13:41 on that particular mission field? 13:43 We were in Bukavu in Congo. 13:45 In the Congo and that's where you met? 13:48 That's where we met. All right. 13:49 Now when you began what gave you the idea, 13:55 I mean you meet, 13:56 you've done an evangelism series, 13:58 but how did the Lord percolate all of that 14:02 and bake it I should say, mixed it up and bake it 14:06 to become this ministry Train Them 2 Fish. 14:10 I could say something here. Sure. 14:13 When we would go into the city, 14:14 we would see people who were begging, 14:20 and they couldn't walk, they were deformed, 14:23 and it was just very touching to see this, 14:26 and we wanted to do something humanitarian 14:31 in order to help them 14:32 to earn a living for themselves. 14:34 All right. 14:35 So the Train Them 2 Fish then is a program 14:41 where you're training them up spiritually, 14:44 but you're also training vocationally, is that correct? 14:46 Correct. 14:47 All right, now this began in 2012, 14:53 tell us a little bit, 14:54 that's kind of actually I think you brought a video, right? 14:59 Let's get a picture of the country of Congo, 15:03 because Congo is the second largest country... 15:06 In Africa. In Africa. 15:08 And it's thoroughly modern, right? 15:11 No. 15:12 It's very primitive in most areas, is that correct? 15:15 Yeah, some places but also we have big cities 15:18 like Kinshasa 15:20 which is the capital city for Congo Democratic. 15:23 It is the second largest city in Africa. 15:27 And actually people say that Kinshasa is the largest 15:34 French speaking city in the world. 15:36 We got about 12 million living, people living there. 15:39 12 million in that one city, 15:41 but now the population of the Congo 15:43 is around 80 million. 15:44 Yeah, around 80 million. 15:46 And in many areas there is no water. 15:50 Yeah. 15:51 No clean water, that's what I should say. 15:54 No clean water. No roads, no electricity. 15:55 No electricity. 15:57 So there is a lot of challenges 15:59 to meet in ministering in Africa, 16:02 but they brought a video with us 16:04 so that we can get some ideas of what the Congo is like. 16:43 The Democratic Republic of the Congo 16:45 is the second largest country in Africa, 16:48 the eleventh largest in the world. 16:51 There are more than 80 million people living here 16:53 making it the fourth most populated country 16:56 on the African continent. 16:57 The capital city of Kinshasa is the heartbeat of government 17:01 and geography in the DRC. 17:04 It is also a centre of influence 17:05 for the work of leaders and lay people 17:08 of the Seventh-day Adventist church. 17:10 Train Them 2 Fish works closely with the leadership 17:13 of the West Congo Union Mission to reach the people of Kinshasa 17:17 and the DRC for Jesus Christ. 17:21 Kinshasa is the huge city over 12 million live here. 17:25 We have 12 churches, 17:26 41 companies with 17,000 members. 17:30 We have much work to do 17:31 to reach out to the people of the city. 17:33 This union is the largest in the country. 17:36 Train Them 2 Fish has sponsored more than a dozen Bible workers 17:39 in recent years to work as lay pastors, 17:43 leading people to their savior. 17:45 The members and workers 17:46 are organizing new congregations 17:48 as centers of hope 17:50 as they share with their friends and family, 17:52 what Jesus has done for them. 17:54 Our focus is to train more Bible workers 17:58 and medical missionaries to reach out 18:01 to their French speaking countries 18:02 of the Central Africa, 18:04 so we want to use Jesus' methods 18:07 on serving people and humanitarian activities, 18:10 development activities 18:12 and the outreach program for evangelism. 18:14 Most people when they hear about supporting ministries, 18:17 they think that they are coming with money, 18:19 or they are coming to take money. 18:21 To us here in the Congo, it means something else. 18:24 It means another hand where we cannot go, 18:27 supporting ministries will go and do the work of the Lord. 18:30 We are unable to reach all these people. 18:32 This Bible worker program from Train Them 2 Fish 18:35 will increase our capacity. 18:39 The best way for me to go door-to-door 18:41 make friends with them, 18:43 and from there I can start Bible studies with them. 18:45 I want Jesus to come soon. 18:47 I need more Bible workers to join me 18:49 so we can hasten Jesus' coming. 18:51 I encourage people to support Bible workers 18:53 so that Jesus can come soon. 18:55 The Train Them 2 Fish Bible workers 18:57 have not been satisfied with helping free people alone 19:01 to know of Jesus. 19:05 I'm very happy to be a Bible worker in the prison, 19:08 to work with these special people 19:10 they reject the society, 19:12 but I have hope for their future 19:14 when they meet a man of God coming to see them. 19:16 It just gives me great hope. 19:20 The Train Them 2 Fish Bible workers 19:22 have gone into prisons and brought a message of hope 19:25 and freedom to those with no hope and no freedom. 19:29 So many of those who have felt guilt, 19:32 they feel forgiven, 19:33 they're opening their hearts to Jesus 19:35 and experiencing a new life. 19:37 We have so many in prison 19:39 who have heard about Jesus for the first time. 19:42 There is one person, he assaulted his aunt. 19:45 His family situation was bad and his wife was angry. 19:49 When he accepted Jesus, he asked me to visit his wife. 19:52 When I told the wife about Jesus 19:54 and about forgiveness, 19:56 she forgave him and his daughter did too him... 19:59 They have a very good relationship 20:00 and they visit the prison and the man has been baptized. 20:04 Train Them 2 Fish has demonstrated great success 20:07 in their Bible worker and prison ministry outreach, 20:10 as well as a new family and orphan sowing industry. 20:14 Recently a new opportunity for the church 20:17 through Train Them 2 Fish has arisen. 20:19 Property in the country side became available 20:22 and has been purchased in Gugu 20:24 a village about two and a half hours 20:26 southwest of Kinshasa. 20:28 We have seen what Train Them 2 Fish has already done. 20:31 They worked in the prisons and been to an outer province. 20:34 We have gone to the prisons and to the outer province 20:36 and I've seen the good results. 20:38 We are supporting Train Them 2 Fish 20:40 to encourage them to be established. 20:42 We want them to have property 20:43 so that they can work together with the church. 20:46 The expanded work at the new 34 acre campus 20:49 of Train Them 2 Fish 20:51 will include an organized roll out of building phases 20:53 as resources allow. 20:55 The first phase will be the school of evangelism, 20:59 training Bible workers 21:00 and lay pastors to supplement the work 21:02 of the Seventh-day Adventist organized church 21:05 as their first priority. 21:07 Training a pastor may take you up 21:08 to four years and because as you know, 21:12 you may not spend less than $4,000 per year. 21:17 Times for is you know, but with this program, 21:22 we can train 60 Bible workers 21:25 within three months for only $4,000, 21:29 so we can give them equipment and equip them with skills 21:33 to reach people in a very short time 21:36 and less expensive. 21:39 Later phases include a lifestyle centre 21:42 and medical clinic. 21:43 Then medical missionary 21:45 and agricultural training centers. 21:47 This campus will streamline training 21:49 and save the church money. 21:51 Overtime it will become self sustaining. 21:55 We will have our school 21:56 and we have enough place to do agriculture, 21:59 to produce food for the students 22:01 and we can also sell some of the product 22:04 to keep the school running. 22:06 We really want to encourage people 22:08 to support Train Them 2 Fish as a supporting ministry 22:11 as they've started working here. 22:12 We want to ask people to support Train Them 2 Fish 22:15 so they will be able to continue 22:16 their support of the mission of the church, 22:18 not only here in Congo, but surrounding countries. 22:21 To be a part of Train Them 2 Fish 22:24 through giving, prayer and talent, 22:27 visit fish4alifetime.org. 22:32 Excellent video. Excellent video. 22:34 So, Karolyn, tell me 22:37 are you part of Outpost Centers International, 22:40 are you a ministry of OCI? 22:42 Yes, we are. 22:43 Okay, and this is something that you began in 2012, 22:50 let's just dive into this when you heard about this, 22:53 were you then the conference president 22:55 or were you pastoring? 22:57 I was a conference president by that time. 22:59 Okay, so you were... 23:00 What made you decide to go 23:03 to leave that part of your life behind 23:06 and go into evangelism if you will full time? 23:10 Yeah, can also say becoming part of a ministry, 23:13 because this is exactly ministry. 23:15 Yes. 23:17 I was impressed to see the growth 23:20 and the work of Bible workers and a retentional rate 23:23 which is over 95 percent of retention. 23:27 So wait a minute, are you saying that, 23:29 those who the Bible workers baptized, 23:32 you end up with the 95 percent retention rate 23:35 of those church members. 23:36 That's amazing. 23:38 Yes, so I was so impressed and I said, these guys, 23:39 they need somebody to supervise their ministry 23:41 and they need somebody to train them 23:45 with more skills also. 23:47 I was called and Train Them 2 Fish said, 23:50 can you help us to coordinate this project in Africa. 23:52 I said, since it is a call for ministry, I'm ready to go. 23:57 And praise the Lord, 23:58 because the division was willing to release me 24:01 and I was released 24:02 to become a part of this ministry, 24:04 and to coordinate the project in Africa. 24:06 Praise God, so Pastor Thomas, what... 24:11 was this your idea, 24:13 I should address Mr. and Mrs. Leonard, first, 24:16 Karolyn, Richard, was it your idea 24:18 to use Christ methods to try to reach these people, 24:24 how did the program, how did you design the program? 24:29 I think possibly when it came up 24:31 to what we saw 24:34 and I think the Holy Spirit really guided us 24:36 because if we look at Christ method, 24:40 he has many methods, 24:41 he didn't just have one particular method, 24:43 but his whole goal 24:45 was for the salvation of the people. 24:46 Right. 24:48 And that was its purpose 24:49 and as I want to mention one of the thing with Thomas, 24:52 since we've lived in Africa, 24:55 we saw in Thomas, his dedication, 24:59 his commitment and his... 25:02 We would give him for example some money to do something 25:05 and always would come back and say 25:07 how did you do this and, and, and, 25:10 and the Lord really put that together that 25:14 with somebody who's really dedicated to Lord 25:19 and desired to see his people, 25:23 he wasn't wanted to come over to America 25:25 and then live, 25:26 he wanted to work for his own people. 25:29 So when we say 25:30 that you're using Christ method, 25:32 what are we saying? 25:34 Yes, Christ method is the method 25:38 build on relationship addressing people's life, 25:43 the issues and problems they have in their lives 25:46 and proposing solution for that, 25:48 so Train Them 2 Fish has been trying 25:51 to go where people are 25:54 and to help them improve their life 25:56 especially working from a country like Congo 25:59 which is known as one of the poorest country 26:02 in the world, 26:03 so Train Them 2 Fish is trying to help people 26:05 how they can earn living like a sowing projects 26:10 with the disabled people, with widows and single mothers 26:15 to help them to have training program 26:17 for six months 26:19 and after the training program giving a sowing machine 26:22 for each one of them... 26:23 Oh, praise the Lord. 26:25 And that will help them to improve their life 26:26 and to earn some living, 26:28 also like a basket weaving project 26:31 with those who are jobless, 26:34 so with the basket weaving program 26:37 they can make three baskets per day 26:39 and sell for almost a $5 per day 26:43 and when you see a common people 26:46 in Congo living with a dollar or lesser than dollar 26:49 but with these basket program 26:51 they can make like $5 a day that's an improvement, 26:55 so we're doing that for people and they are amazed they say, 26:59 why are you doing these for us? 27:00 We say, because God loves you 27:02 and we want to share that love with you, 27:05 thus they open their hearts 27:07 and to receive the seed of the gospel. 27:09 Absolutely. 27:11 Absolutely, so this is something that, 27:12 you know, what is the saying, "If you feed a man a fish, 27:16 you feed him for a day, but if you train him to fish, 27:21 then you're feeding him for a life time." 27:23 So I'm sure that's where you got the title 27:26 Train Them 2 Fish. 27:27 And this is something then that you're going in, 27:31 you establish this relationship with people 27:33 by meeting their needs, by training them, 27:37 how to sustain their lives, 27:40 how that they can put food on the family table 27:44 if you will. 27:45 But now I know your passion what did you, 27:49 how old did you say he was when he began preaching? 27:52 He was 16 years old 27:54 and he has been preaching ever since. 27:56 Sixteen years old, 27:57 so you have this passion to get the gospel. 28:03 What you've just described to us Pastor Thomas 28:05 is that everything that would break up a hardened ground, 28:11 I mean it's like you're plowing up 28:13 the ground of their hearts, so that you said, 28:15 you can plant the seed. 28:17 Tell us about the seed planting? 28:19 How did you get that seed planted? 28:21 So we also have Bible worker training program. 28:25 They've been trained or they're still being trained 28:28 as a Bible workers, church planters, 28:31 as lay pastors as well, 28:33 so we're also training them in community outreach program 28:37 how they can become part of the community 28:39 to help the community once there 28:41 to assess the needs of the community 28:43 and to build relationship with people from communities, 28:47 and once they are trained, 28:49 they are assigned to a certain community 28:51 to build relationship with the community to do 28:54 they need assessments from the community. 28:56 Once they have a good relationship 28:58 with people from the community, 28:59 they can now make plan for Bible studies. 29:03 Okay, so where do you get these Bible workers? 29:06 I mean how... 29:08 Who are these people 29:10 that you may be train before to that 29:13 then have become convert, trained in vocational manner, 29:18 or are these people out of churches 29:20 where your Bible workers coming from? 29:23 Our Bible workers they come from the church. 29:26 Okay, they are coming from the church. 29:27 So we talk to different church leaders 29:29 and they help us to find people 29:31 who have good standing with the church, 29:33 who have a passion for other people as well, 29:36 and we recruit them 29:39 and we train them as Bible workers 29:41 and community development agents, 29:44 also as a church planters, 29:46 so they are from different Seventh-day churches. 29:49 All right, Richard, you said something 29:52 during the song when Jaime Jorge was playing, 29:54 you said that this was so exciting for you, 29:58 it was fun because why? 30:02 To me it's very encouraging 30:03 because we're seeing other people working, 30:06 and when we are seeing the growth 30:08 then how the Lord is working. 30:12 It brings, I don't know, a sense into our own lives 30:15 that God is working with us also, 30:20 and that we want to be 30:22 able to do work here more in home 30:24 and be able to spread the gospel 30:25 here at home. 30:27 It's exciting to watch growth in people 30:30 who are coming to Christ, 30:32 and it makes you want to go back 30:36 and have another evangelistic meeting. 30:38 You want to have other people share in sharing the gospel. 30:44 All right, 'cause I'm interested in, 30:46 you had a word there. 30:48 Let me just kind of recap what you said, 30:50 you're taking these people 30:51 who are good standing with the church, 30:53 you train them to be Bible workers, 30:54 you send them into various communities 30:57 where there is no Adventist presence there, 30:59 and then you are teaching them 31:02 that they spend the first six months 31:04 assessing the needs, 31:06 getting to know the people, developing those relationships 31:10 and then they start the Bible studies, 31:12 but you used the word church planting. 31:16 So what kind of success are the Bible workers having? 31:20 Are they seeing baptisms, 31:22 obviously if they're planting churches? 31:25 They are planting churches and we have seen great result 31:30 from the Holy Spirit using common people, 31:34 because most of our Bible worker, 31:36 they don't have degrees, they are just common people, 31:39 but with the passion for the Lord, 31:40 to serve the Lord. 31:42 So far we have seen them 31:44 going through different communities 31:47 and they have planted so far 13 new congregations. 31:51 Thirteen new churches, wow. 31:53 Yeah, new churches have been planted, we buy them, 31:55 and we are just there to coordinate 31:57 after training them 31:58 to coordinate what they are doing, 32:00 and over 1000 people have been baptized so far. 32:04 So they have also a door-to-door ministry 32:09 with people. 32:10 With this ministry, 32:12 I have seen a result of over 5,000 houses 32:16 visited by these people 32:19 and they've been doing Bible workers 32:21 on three times every week. 32:24 So you saw over a 1,000 people baptized in just 32:26 the first four years of ministry. 32:28 Yeah. 32:29 And how many per week were baptized? 32:33 Yeah, usually we can say minimum of 50 people. 32:37 That is amazing. So God is really... 32:41 I mean these people have to be on fire for... 32:44 How long do you train them? 32:47 The training program is one month program 32:50 because we don't have a center so far, 32:54 and we are planning to have an established center, 32:56 and God has already provided money. 32:59 Somebody donated money 33:00 and a property has been purchased, 34 acres. 33:05 And we're building, master plan have been already established 33:11 and some people are already donating money 33:13 toward building program so, 33:15 so far we have a one month training program 33:18 and 10 days program for them 33:21 to practice what they have been learning. 33:23 Okay, so when this, when you began 33:26 you've got 34 acres now, 33:28 but when you began the school of evangelism, 33:31 will this be a one month program, 33:32 or is it gonna be extended then? 33:34 Yeah, with the school establish, 33:35 we want to have a six month training program. 33:38 A six month training program. 33:39 Because we want to include 33:41 a medical missionary training program as well. 33:43 Oh, excellent, excellent. That's excellent. 33:46 So that's big dreams for the future obviously. 33:51 What's been also interesting when we first went there 33:53 and noticed that Thomas had the Bible workers pre working 33:56 before the evangelistic series 33:59 and the dedication of the local people 34:01 would come in, they came into the church, 34:04 they slept on the floor of the church 34:07 and would still go out 34:09 and work with these other new churches, 34:11 where there was, 34:12 when we first went to Bukavu, it was only two churches, 34:15 and they established 10 other churches throughout 34:19 and that's part of the church growth 34:22 that they would have the Bible workers going 34:24 and doing the work first. 34:26 They are plowing the ground, they are doing other 34:28 so we would come back as evangelist 34:31 and to help harvest at the times. 34:33 Absolutely. 34:35 So their work, the work that they did ahead of time 34:38 was what really laid the groundwork 34:39 for this success. 34:41 Absolutely. 34:42 And then we went to Bukavu, 34:43 they only have 390 church members at that time, 34:46 but after three years it's up to 1,400. 34:49 Praise the Lord. 34:51 And it's the city of 1.2 million, 34:52 so it's growing. 34:53 You're seeing excellent results. 34:55 And 98 percent retention. 34:56 So when you have, have you seen people 34:59 who've been converted may be and they're visiting inner city 35:03 and they end up going back. 35:04 Have any of your conversions gone back to their villages 35:08 to help spread the message? 35:12 Yes, so many people. 35:13 I can mention a young man, we came from his village, 35:18 he used to be with a mission background. 35:22 When he came to attend our meetings, 35:24 he was so impressed and after the meeting 35:27 he received the free Bible, 35:29 he said, I've never seen this before having, 35:32 receiving a free Bible, so he said, 35:34 can you help me to know more about this Bible. 35:37 And one of our Bible workers spend the time with him 35:40 to start a Bible. 35:41 And when he went back to his home village, 35:44 he started to sharing his new faith and finally said, 35:48 I've been receiving a lot of questions, 35:50 I'm not able to respond to them, 35:52 can you help me to send somebody 35:54 who has a more experience in the Bible 35:56 to go back with him to my village 35:58 to help me to respond to all those questions. 36:02 So we sent somebody, one of our Bible worker, 36:05 and he spent three days, and so many people were coming. 36:09 And finally the Bible worker said, 36:11 we need somebody to stay here and we asked him, 36:15 will you like to stay there as a Bible worker. 36:17 He said, I'm willing to stay and he stayed after three weeks 36:23 we sent a pastor to baptize people. 36:26 So they planted a small congregation there 36:29 with that man, so he was also excited 36:32 to know a congregation being born, 36:35 established from his village. 36:37 Amen. 36:38 And also we have a number of Pentecostal pastors 36:42 we even baptized, three of them have been baptized 36:46 and two Baptist pastors 36:48 and one nondenominational pastor being baptized, 36:51 not because we went to reach them 36:53 but because the Bible worker 36:54 was studying the Bible with them. 36:56 And those pastor were impressed to see common people 37:00 with no theological background 37:03 are being able to explain the Bible to them, 37:06 so they said this is from God. 37:08 And he was baptized, 37:09 they were baptized, those pastors. 37:11 And some of them were sent to a university, 37:14 Lukanga Adventist University in my country in Congo, 37:17 to be more trained, 37:20 and then come back to serve the church. 37:22 Well, that obviously is God, 37:24 when you have someone with no theological degree 37:30 and then they got some training, 37:32 it's Holy Spirit inspired training 37:34 is what they're receiving, 37:35 but when someone with no theological degree 37:38 can go and speak to pastors of other denominations 37:41 and see the Lord convince them of the truth, 37:45 using those humble people as instruments of truth, 37:48 that's amazing. 37:50 So that's fabulous story right there. 37:53 And you look like you've got something you wanted to add. 37:58 I was going to mention that before he came here to the US, 38:01 just a few weeks or a month this year, 38:06 that he had trained 68 Bible workers 38:09 and two of them while he was gone 38:12 went out to their village 38:14 and started a short evangelistic series. 38:18 Praise the Lord. On their own. 38:20 Praise the Lord. 38:21 And they are giving me reports of the work the Holy Spirit 38:25 is doing through them, 38:27 and one of them sent a picture of eight people 38:31 being baptized from his own efforts. 38:33 In that short period of time, that's amazing. 38:37 So where do you run the schools like the sowing schools 38:41 or the basket weaving schools where... 38:44 Since you don't really have a facility, 38:47 do you rent places or where, 38:49 how are you training people vocationally? 38:52 The vocation training program we usually rent some places. 38:56 Okay. 38:58 And so we are still renting that's why we're praying 39:01 for God to provide a center for us 39:05 where we can be training people, 39:07 but for the Bible worker training program, 39:10 we're been training them from churches, 39:12 different churches. 39:14 Okay, now you said that 39:16 people who are going through the vocational training 39:19 like when a women learns how to sow for six months 39:22 or and then at the end of the training 39:25 you give her a sowing machine. 39:29 There is no condition on that. 39:30 You're not saying, well, 39:31 you've got to go through Bible training 39:33 to get this vocational training? 39:36 I don't believe that Jesus gave a condition for people 39:40 to be beneficiary of his service. 39:44 So we don't have a condition for people. 39:46 Praise God. 39:47 We just see that they have needs 39:49 to improve their lives 39:50 and we're just doing that, it is up to them 39:53 if they are touched by the Holy Spirit, 39:55 they can say, oh, why are you doing this to us, 39:58 because I've never read in the Bible 40:00 that Jesus said because feeding you people, 40:03 you need to do this and that. 40:04 He just fed people. 40:06 Amen. Amen. 40:08 And that's what touches people's hearts so much, 40:11 isn't it? 40:13 We have a few pictures so we can show that, 40:15 we have some stories too. 40:17 Okay, here we go. 40:20 You want to tell us about this picture? 40:21 Yes, so that's a one day church, 40:25 it's a local designed one day church 40:27 after the Bible workers did the outreach program, so... 40:32 Now explain what a one day church 40:33 is because some people won't know. 40:35 One day church is... 40:36 not the one day church. 40:38 This is a local designed one day church. 40:40 So you built this in a day is what you're saying. 40:42 Yeah, just 11 hours. In 11 hours. 40:45 With Bible workers and local people. 40:47 Praise God. 40:48 Yeah, somebody donated money $3,000 and I said, 40:53 we need a shelter for those newly baptized people, 40:56 so then together with Bible workers and myself, 40:59 we went for 11 hours to build a one day church. 41:02 Praise the Lord. 41:03 That's why we used to call it a local design one day Bible, 41:07 one day church. 41:09 Amen. Yeah. 41:10 And how many members started that, 15? 41:13 Yeah, 15 members. Praise God. 41:15 And it' grown to... 41:17 To 38. In how long? 41:20 15 members to 38 members how long, 41:24 I'm sorry, I miss that. 41:25 Two years. 41:27 In two years, that's praise the Lord, 41:28 that's wonderful. 41:29 Now you have, do you have any other pictures 41:31 that you like to show us? 41:32 Yeah, so, we have also a children program 41:36 so the orphans and children who have no support, 41:40 Train Them 2 Fish has been providing school fees for them 41:45 on books, uniforms 41:47 and one meal every Saturday evening, 41:50 so we have a Bible worker 41:52 who is taking care of those children. 41:55 So far they have 27 children from a certain community, 42:00 so the Bible worker is helping them to know Jesus. 42:04 Every Friday they come for a meal 42:07 and to learn about Jesus. 42:09 He used to tell them Bible stories 42:12 and to teach them some songs 42:14 and they are leaving with nursing families, 42:17 most of those families are not Adventist families. 42:20 So those kids are serving us as a link 42:23 between the Bible worker and the families, 42:25 so it's another way to reach to those families 42:29 because they're just amazed to see that people... 42:33 They don't know us, 42:35 but they are taking care of the children 42:37 from our community, giving them foods 42:40 and helping them to go back to school, 42:42 so people are just touched by that kind of ministry. 42:46 Isn't that amazing, how love can conquer anything 42:50 and that's what it is, it's just 42:52 reflecting the love of Jesus, amen. 42:55 So now, for the future 42:58 you've got the training classes, 43:00 the vocational classes, 43:02 do you have any agricultural training classes 43:04 or is that just something for your future? 43:06 With those children, the orphans, 43:10 when they're out of school, 43:12 the Bible worker is helping them together 43:15 with the nursing families to do agriculture 43:18 and gardening so that they may produce food 43:20 to feed those children and to feed the families. 43:23 Wonderful. 43:24 So we have such program going on so far 43:26 and we are planning that on our campus 43:30 we may help people to learn 43:32 how to do gardening and agriculture as well. 43:35 Amen. 43:36 Okay, so these 34 acres 43:37 have been purchased for the campus? 43:39 Already, yes. 43:40 And then the plan is to build a center 43:42 that will be a training and housing center 43:46 for the Bible workers, 43:49 and I'm sure that the Lord, you know, 43:51 you've got in a country of 80 million people, 43:56 how many Adventists still are there? 43:59 Yeah, Congo is a huge city 44:02 and the division decided to have 44:04 three unions in the country, 44:06 so all those unions together 44:08 they have about 500,000 Seventh-day Adventists, 44:13 so that's why we're thinking that those people, 44:16 if we can train lay people 44:18 from that French speaking country, 44:20 they can easily help us to become missionaries 44:23 to reach out to other French speaking countries 44:25 in the region. 44:26 And there is quite a few. 44:28 Yeah, the population in Congo is young, 44:31 so the medium age is 17 years old. 44:35 So if we forecast to train them as medical missionaries, 44:39 Bible workers, church planters and lay pastors, 44:42 they can easily as I believe and as I've seen them, 44:47 they can easily help us 44:48 to reach out to the French speaking countries 44:50 in Central Africa. 44:51 Thomas, let me ask you a question. 44:53 When you were a conference president, 44:57 how many churches were in your conference? 45:00 Hundred and eighty seven. 45:02 Hundred and eighty seven churches. 45:03 Yes. 45:05 And your pastors, how many churches 45:08 does the average pastor oversee? 45:12 Between six and ten churches. 45:14 Between six and ten churches, that is amazing 45:18 and they're not always close, are they? 45:20 That's why I saw that 45:22 there is a need to train a lay people 45:25 to help those pastors as a lay pastors, 45:27 because you know, 45:30 one pastor for 10 churches, that's not easy. 45:34 And to me, God told to me, you need to leave this position 45:38 and to train lay people to fill this gap. 45:41 Amen. 45:43 So the idea is 45:44 as you're training up the Bible workers 45:46 that they can serve as lay pastors, 45:49 because a pastor, you know, 45:51 they're planting churches 45:53 and the pastor can hardly get around 45:54 to the churches he already has, so that's amazing. 45:57 And you need to have a lot of money 45:59 to pay your pastor, but Bible workers, lay pastors, 46:03 they are just volunteering their time 46:05 with a small stipend like $120 per month, 46:10 they're happy to do that 46:12 and to minister to the communities. 46:14 Praise the Lord. 46:16 I think he has couple more stories, 46:17 if you have time. 46:18 Well, before we get to that story, 46:20 I just wanted to give people the opportunity. 46:23 We have an address roll that will tell you 46:26 how you can get in touch with Train Them 2 Fish. 46:30 Maybe the Lord is impressing you 46:32 that you should be supporting this project 46:34 or maybe you have a talent 46:36 that you would like to volunteer 46:38 if they're doing a medical missionary program 46:41 or if you would like to go over 46:42 and be part of an evangelistic series, 46:45 here's how you can get in touch with them. 46:49 If you would like to support 46:50 Train Them 2 Fish International, 46:52 you can do so in a variety of ways. 46:54 You can write to them at PO Box 642, 46:58 Fletcher, North Carolina 28732. 47:01 That's PO Box 642, Fletcher, North Carolina 28732. 47:07 You can call them at 828-551-7172. 47:12 That's 828-551-7172. 47:17 You can also visit them online at Fish4aLifetime.org. 47:22 That's fish and then the number 4 47:25 and then a Lifetime.org. 47:34 This is such an excellent organization now. 47:38 Karolyn said, you've got some stories 47:40 that you want to share with us, so please tell us. 47:43 I have an amazing story, 47:45 one of those stories is from somebody 47:48 who was a racist as a prisoner 47:51 in Kinshasa, the capital city of Congo 47:53 we have the huge prison with over 7,000 inmates, 47:58 so Train Them 2 Fish had a special program 48:01 in that prison to give Bibles away, 48:05 to distribute Bibles to for prisoners, 48:07 and over 300 Bibles were distributed, 48:11 so somebody in the prison was arrested 48:14 and convict for five years in the prison and... 48:17 He'd already been in for five years... 48:19 Yes, he was convicted for five years 48:21 and by the time we went to distribute Bible, 48:24 he was just for the first year in the prison. 48:26 Okay. 48:27 So he received the Bible 48:29 and he started reading the Bible 48:30 and he was amazed to see people giving him a free Bible. 48:35 So he said, this Bible is my second friend, 48:38 so I've been reading, he was reading the Bible everyday. 48:42 And after reading the whole Bible, 48:44 he wanted somebody else to help him to understand more, 48:47 and we have a Bible worker working in that prison. 48:50 The Bible worker went to help him to understand more. 48:53 And finally the third year, 48:56 the president of the country said, 48:58 I want to give my prudential mercy and grace 49:02 for some prisoners to be free, so I want especially those 49:06 who are been expressing a change in their lives, 49:10 so this guy was one of them, because they realized 49:13 that his life was completely changed, 49:16 and he was like an advisor for other prisoners 49:19 as well to have a good behavior. 49:21 So that guy, he was released set free from the prison 49:25 and he's now baptized. 49:27 He said I want to start a small congregation, 49:30 Adventist congregation in my home 49:32 because of this book. 49:34 So he was asking me, pastor, if you have people 49:37 who can donate money to buy Bibles 49:39 in French and Lingala, 49:40 please tell them that this book, 49:42 the Bible is really changing people's life, 49:45 because my life has been changed. 49:47 Oh, Pastor Thomas, that's such a precious story 49:49 and we hear that, I actually interviewed a gentleman 49:52 who was given a Bible in prison 49:56 and how God dramatically changed his life. 50:00 So this man then ended up only serving 50:03 three of the five years, 50:04 he got out two years early and now he is a Bible worker 50:07 and planted a church. 50:09 What an exciting story. 50:10 Now, you had a story about a woman 50:11 that you want to share. 50:13 Yes, before going to the story of the woman, this man, 50:15 this guy from the prison said, 50:16 okay, I want to really I was happy 50:20 to go to the prison because it is, 50:23 it was for me a place where the Lord came to me. 50:26 Amen. 50:27 Well, we've only got about two minutes 50:29 before we have to take a break. 50:30 Tell us the story of this lady? 50:32 The story of another lady, a lady, 50:34 she used to be a prostitute 50:36 and when she came to meet with us, 50:38 she said I heard that you're a pastor or so, 50:40 can you pray for me, 50:42 I want to share this story for my life with you, 50:44 so I'm married and I have two children, 50:47 but my husband abandoned me, so I have no idea where he is, 50:53 so can you pray for me. 50:54 I want to know exactly if my husband is still alive 50:57 or he is already died that, so we prayed 51:00 and he came and said 51:02 my husband has called me after four years of prayer, 51:06 so I believe that God is in your church 51:08 and he said I want to learn about your God, 51:10 and please allow me to stay in this church 51:13 because God is here. 51:14 And finally she started a Bible program 51:18 with one of our Bible workers 51:20 and she decide to be to give her life to Jesus 51:25 and she was baptized. 51:26 And Train Them 2 Fish raised a fund 51:29 to help that lady to learn family business, 51:33 so now she received some funds, 51:36 she's doing fabric business and she's free and she said, 51:40 I praise God because my life is free. 51:43 Amen. 51:44 So, you know, it doesn't matter if you're in prison behind bars 51:48 or just in prison by sin, 51:50 when the message of the gospel reaches your heart 51:53 and when Jesus touches you, 51:55 He set you free and if the Son sets you free, 51:57 you are free indeed. 51:59 Well, we're going to take a short break. 52:02 We have to go to our newsbreak now, 52:04 but then we'll come back for a final thought 52:07 from the Train Them 2 Fish team. |
Revised 2016-09-06