Participants: Danny Shelton & Yvonne Lewis (Host), Jason Bradley
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY016003A
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00:01 I want to spend my life
00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:29 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:45 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people 01:06 Hello, and welcome to another 3ABN Today program. 01:09 Thank you for joining us 01:11 as always and I have Pastor CA Murray here. 01:14 Usually you are in this seat and I'm over there. 01:16 Well, I was trying to get to the seat 01:18 but you never let me. 01:19 Well, yeah, yeah. I know. 01:20 Well, this seat you got to work more 01:22 because you got to bring the program in and out. 01:24 You are responsible for, 01:25 you know, so I usually when we are together 01:27 I beat him in the seat. 01:28 But anyway, we are glad that you are here with us today 01:31 and we are glad that our guests are here. 01:32 We have Dr. Yvonne Lewis and son Jason Bradley. 01:36 Jason, it's good to have you here too today. 01:38 Good to be here. 01:39 And so we are doing, 01:40 what we are doing CA is kind of a, 01:44 I think you would call this is your life. 01:46 You remember, some of you're old enough to remember 01:48 that program This Is Your Life? 01:50 Now you remember that. 01:51 You remember that. 01:52 Yvonne was probably on that event, you know. 01:54 Oh, you know what. 01:56 Now you are pushing that a bit. 01:58 You may have found frozen, who knows, I don't know. 02:01 So, Jason, you probably never heard of that program, 02:03 have you, This is Your Life? 02:04 No, that's way before my time. 02:06 Okay. Well, in reality it really was. 02:08 Was, yeah. 02:09 Absolutely. 02:11 But we've been taking some different ones 02:12 and, Yvonne, you've helped me. 02:14 We've interviewed a few people already 02:15 and we are trying to get some of our workers here 02:18 that's working with us in the vineyard 02:20 out on the frontlines and maybe getting some things 02:23 that from them that you've never heard before. 02:26 So today that's kind of, Yvonne, 02:27 we have you on the hot seat. 02:29 I know. 02:30 And why did I bring CA Murray, 02:32 asked Pastor Murray to be here. 02:33 Do you have any idea? 02:34 I do. 02:36 Tell us why. 02:37 Because it was through Pastor Murray's ministry 02:39 that I came back to the Lord. 02:40 Okay. 02:42 And so he knows everything about you 02:43 for the last how many years do you, 02:45 he says in his words he's been doing what? 02:48 I've been dragging along for 30 years. 02:54 Thirty years. That's terrible. 02:55 Dragging around. 02:57 You know, time gets away, it was, it's 30 years. 02:59 I know because I was pregnant with Jason 03:01 when I got re-baptized. 03:02 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 03:04 He got baptized twice. 03:05 He was there in water when I baptized him in water 03:08 and you got baptized again. 03:10 So you've been baptized three times. 03:11 Yes. The third times a time. 03:13 Okay. 03:14 Have mercy. 03:16 And, well, we're here today because we want to go 03:18 and find out some things about Yvonne that we, 03:21 maybe you don't know and maybe we don't know. 03:23 So we didn't plan it too much. 03:24 We just said, "Hey, this is kind of a, 03:26 this is your life type program." 03:28 So, Yvonne, we want to start out 03:29 and we're gonna have you sing in the little bit 03:31 and we have a song picked out 03:32 that you've already done here 03:34 that we will hold that off for just a little bit. 03:37 We want to go back, tell us a little bit about 03:39 where you were born and raised 03:41 and I know that I can't ask her the dates and all that. 03:44 As a woman you can't. 03:45 She won't, she probably wouldn't tell me anyway, right? 03:48 Right. That's true. 03:49 But tell me where you were born and raised 03:52 and little bit about your family life? 03:54 Well, I was born in New York City in Harlem 03:57 at Harlem Hospital in New York City 03:59 and I am a third generation Seventh-day Adventist. 04:05 Both sides of my family, my grandparents were Adventist. 04:09 In fact, my paternal grandfather was a minister 04:13 and he died when my dad was three-years-old 04:16 but he was from the Virgin Islands, 04:18 from Saint Thomas. 04:20 And he passed away when my dad was three. 04:22 And then my grandmother was a missionary 04:24 and she was at the Ephesus Church 04:29 as a Bible instructor. 04:31 And so and she has been, she was just such a profound 04:33 and she had a profound impact on my life. 04:36 So, so yeah, I was, 04:38 I came from an Adventist background. 04:43 Siblings? 04:45 One sister, my baby sister who was nine years my junior. 04:49 And her nickname was Binky 04:51 and in fact, she was in school with John Lomacang. 04:54 She was, she and John were in the same class. 04:57 Okay, and you are saying what? 04:59 So now I'm saying I'm really telling my age now, all right. 05:02 And so you are very closer in age? 05:04 Well, you are right. 05:06 Dan, I need to say she passed, 05:07 her grandmother was a legendary. 05:10 And that we won't use that term bible worker in New York City. 05:13 Rosalyn Jones, she worked with all, 05:15 you talk with the great evangelist 05:16 E. E. Clevelands, your G.H. Raineys 05:18 all of the great evangelist, she worked with them all. 05:21 Yeah. 05:22 She had a choir for years at the Ephesus Church. 05:24 And you mentioned the name of Rosalyn Jones 05:27 anywhere in New York City-- 05:28 really anywhere among that age group of ministers 05:32 and laypeople, everybody knew Rosalyn Jones. 05:33 I think they still have pictures of her out front. 05:35 I was one at the churches there 05:37 and I saw pictures of Rosalyn Jones, 05:40 that's your grandmother, right? 05:41 Yeah, that was my grandmother. 05:42 So I guess she's left her mark for sure. 05:44 Oh, yeah. 05:45 Now you talked about Binky and you said she was. 05:47 Tell us about Binky? 05:53 In 2009 she had a liver transplant 05:59 and-- well, let me go back a little bit. 06:03 Binky and I when our mom died, 06:06 I was 19 and Binky was nine 06:10 and she was going on ten. 06:12 And Binky and I went different routes. 06:16 Binky got involved with drugs early, 06:21 very early in her life 06:22 and I went on to I finished school 06:26 and the music business and all that. 06:28 So we really, we lived very different lives. 06:31 Binky was very street savvy and I really was naive 06:34 and I was the kind of the book worm and Binky was intelligent 06:39 but she just didn't go that route. 06:40 So our lives went that way but then she became ill 06:46 and I lived in Dallas and she decided 06:49 to come to be with me 06:50 and maybe I could help her because at the time 06:53 I was doing alternative medicine. 06:55 We will talk more about that later. 06:56 So she came there 06:58 and I helped her by the grace of God in her, 07:03 when she came I didn't know 07:04 but she had only been give about six months when she came. 07:10 And she was in Dallas for few years 07:13 and she had a liver transplant on March 23 of 2009 07:17 and the surgery itself was successful 07:23 but she never really came out from the anesthesia. 07:26 And May 9, she passed away. 07:28 Wow. Okay. 07:30 And I'm so grateful 07:33 because the Lord brought her back to Him. 07:36 I have the assurance 07:38 that my sister is resting in Jesus. 07:40 So I'm not, 07:41 you know, when I began to well up with tears, 07:44 it's just because I miss her, 07:46 but it's not because I don't have the assurance 07:48 that she is resting in Jesus. 07:50 So I'm really thankful for that. 07:52 And also for the mercy of God that He allowed her, 07:58 she was asleep but I knew she could hear me. 08:01 So it was kind of like He was weaning me, 08:03 giving me time to adjust to not having her with me 08:08 but yet she was still, she was still there. 08:10 Yeah. 08:11 So it was, God is so merciful 08:13 and He is so gentle with the way He deals with us. 08:16 Jason, what do you remember about Aunt Binky? 08:18 What sticks out in your mind? 08:20 Oh, man, she was a lot of fun. 08:22 Okay. 08:23 But she cared for so many people. 08:26 You could go to her house on given day and see 08:29 what looked like the whole neighborhood 08:33 that she just took in. 08:34 Okay. 08:36 You know, she really cared about kids. 08:37 She was huge on family, very family oriented. 08:40 And she would give you the shirt off her back. 08:42 All right. 08:44 I remember when I was a kid though 08:45 I used to look at her crazy 08:47 because she seem, she seemed like she was real stern. 08:50 Yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't really liking her when I was young 08:54 but then as I grew up I just, I loved her so much. 08:58 Yeah, all right. 08:59 Now your dad he is right here in Southern Illinois now. 09:02 How did you get, where did you get him from? 09:04 He is. How did you get him here? 09:06 Well, my dad had been ill for a while 09:08 and he is in a nursing home 09:10 because he requires 24 hour care. 09:13 But my dad who has had a few strokes and but he is-- 09:17 I bet he is watching today. 09:18 We're gonna have to say hello to him, right? 09:19 We'll have to make sure. Yes, yes for sure. 09:22 Hi, Daddy, love you. 09:24 Love you so much. 09:25 I'm so happy he is here. 09:27 You know, he is nearby. He is in West Frankfort. 09:29 We can home visit, he is in West Frankfort. 09:31 We go visit him and show him love 09:34 and every year we give him a birthday party 09:36 and, you know, everybody are friends here come and-- 09:40 And we can tell his age though he is a man. 09:41 Now how old is he? He is 86-years-old. 09:43 Eighty six-years-old. Yeah. 09:45 And he's had a profound impact on, 09:48 he was a principal of an elementary school, 09:50 Bethel Elementary School in Brooklyn. 09:53 And so many of his students have reached out and they said, 09:56 "Oh, please tell Mr. Hodge, we said hello." 09:59 John always reminds me that he-- 10:02 Pastor John Lomacang? Pastor John Lomacang. 10:04 He left his print on him. 10:05 He did literally. 10:09 He said, he is responsible. John needed it. 10:11 By the way if you are watching, John, you need it. 10:14 He said, he is responsible for some of John's success. 10:17 Yeah. 10:19 Now tell me about Mr. Hodge? 10:21 You know, it's interesting how our lives woven into. 10:25 He was-- when I was at Bethel as associate 10:27 and then interim pastor he was there. 10:29 And then later on he was sent to the Amityville School, 10:32 the Bethesda School at Amityville 10:33 and I was a pastor there. 10:35 So I passed cross twice. 10:36 Her dad is a unique personality. 10:41 Okay. 10:42 And that I mean, in everything that would go with that, 10:44 he is a unique, unique person. 10:46 He is fun, he is quick minded, 10:50 golden voice and in his day excellent singer. 10:53 Just a smooth kind of Bing Crosby kind of thing. 10:56 You know, just a great, great singer. 10:58 And he knew it. He let you know that. 11:00 He would. 11:01 He let you know he is a good singer. 11:02 Oh, I'm a good singer. He likes Frank Sinatra, right. 11:05 He did. Yeah. 11:06 He is so into that kind of music, that style. 11:08 Okay. 11:09 Good principal, he was a disciplinarian 11:11 and if you got out of line that's back in the days 11:13 when you would tap a child on the bottom, 11:15 you know, he would do that. 11:17 And so, our paths crossed but he was always, 11:21 you knew when Benito Hodge was in the room 11:24 you knew he was there. 11:25 Okay. He wasn't in the corner. 11:27 That's true. 11:28 Yeah, you knew he was there. That's true. 11:30 He has a presence. 11:31 Kind of a larger than life kind of presence kind of a guy. 11:33 Really neat person. 11:34 Fun guy. You would be laughing. 11:35 You know, even when we go visit him now at advance stage 11:38 and he had several strokes 11:39 but he is, he is gonna call with some zinger, some lion 11:42 because that's just the way he is. 11:43 He does. He is a classic guy. 11:44 I get to go sometimes too and visit him 11:46 and he is always in a good mood and I can't imagine, 11:49 you know, he is just always up. 11:51 He is always for fun. 11:53 I'll tell him, I say, "Boy, you look good today." 11:55 And he will say, "I know that's true, you know." 11:57 I mean, in smile but it's almost mischievous 12:01 his little smile 12:02 that he loves to see your response, you know. 12:04 He does. And what a great guy. 12:06 So you had, you have a wonderful father. 12:09 Now your mother died though when you were much younger. 12:12 Tell us about mom? 12:13 I was 19-years-old and my mom, 12:16 my mom gave me-- 12:20 I have my dad's temperament 12:21 but I have my mom's, 12:25 she was ambitions. 12:26 I have to say that my mom was very, 12:28 she was a business woman. 12:29 She was the controller of the New York Urban League. 12:32 And so she was a professional woman 12:34 and she was really impetus 12:37 for my father going back to school later in life 12:40 and she encouraged him 12:42 and helped to put him through school 12:43 and he went and got his masters in education 12:47 and his principal's license and all that. 12:49 So my mom was very 12:52 and she was very giving to people too, 12:54 she would take people in 12:55 and all of that and funny and stern. 12:59 My mom was really short but you did not cross my mom. 13:04 I mean, you couldn't look at don't pow, 13:08 don't roll those eyes, do not, you can't, don't sit, 13:11 do not talk bad, not. 13:14 Same school as my dad. 13:15 Same with my, same with my-- 13:16 Yeah. Same school. 13:18 We have a picture of her mom. 13:19 And, Danny, one of the thing 13:20 when you notice about the women in this family, 13:22 if you look at her grandmother Rosalyn Jones, 13:24 you look at Yvonne's mother and Yvonne, 13:27 the gene pool are so strong, exact, 13:31 just about the same height, same skin tone, same hair, 13:34 same walk, same talk, same laugh, same everything. 13:38 They are just, you could say this is that, 13:39 that's her mother, that's her daughter, 13:40 that's, you can. 13:42 You could just. 13:43 Cookie cutters. 13:45 You knew her grandmother at this age it's Yvonne. 13:49 There is no difference. 13:50 You know, her hair color is different, 13:52 you cut a little bit shorter but just the same. 13:53 Okay. 13:55 Well, that's a compliment. 13:56 Thank you. My momma was just lovely. 13:58 So now your mother died when you were what age? 14:01 Nineteen. Nineteen. 14:02 Yeah. And what she died from? 14:04 She had Sarcoidosis 14:05 which affects blacks more than whites, 14:09 women more than men and it's kind of an immune, 14:14 kind of an autoimmune disease. 14:17 And she had it in her lungs 14:19 and so she had an oxygen tank at home 14:24 and I remember, 14:25 I was at Oakwood the year she died 14:29 and I came home for Thanksgiving vacation 14:33 and my mom called me to her bedside 14:36 and she said, "I'm not gonna, I'm gonna go to the hospital, 14:40 I'm not gonna be coming back. 14:42 And I want you to promise me 14:44 that you will take care of your sister 14:45 and that you will meet me one day in heaven." 14:48 And I thought, you know, mom is not gonna die. 14:50 Because my mom always had all these-- 14:51 She's pretty young. 14:53 She was 40-years-old. 14:54 Forty, wow. 14:56 And just she was beautiful. 14:58 And I just felt like, my mom is not gonna die. 15:01 You know, you don't think your mother is gonna die 15:04 but I did make her the promise 15:06 that I would look out for my sister 15:08 and I know that one day I will be able to see my mom, 15:12 introduce my children to my mom who she would just adore. 15:17 And be with my mom and my sister forever. 15:20 So, yeah, but my mom was, she died at 40-years-old. 15:24 Great. 15:25 Now you are, again we can't give your age 15:28 but you were old enough, 15:29 you were old enough that when-- 15:30 You're dancing around with that. 15:33 Were you old enough to, when you were young 15:36 like they had the white drinking fountain, 15:38 they had the black drinking fountain, 15:40 do you remember that? 15:41 I do. 15:42 And tell us about your mother's 15:44 able to go maybe cross lines sometimes. 15:48 Well, 15:50 my mom was very fair skin, my dad is brown skin. 15:54 So we had moved to Huntsville, Alabama to go to Oakwood 15:59 for my dad to go back to Oakwood 16:01 and I'll never forget this. 16:05 My mom was able to go into restaurants 16:08 because she could pass for white, so she could go in, 16:11 get the food and bring it out to us to eat. 16:15 I remember when I lived in Huntsville, 16:20 they had white and black colored that they had, 16:23 that's what they had there, 16:25 color and white drinking fountains. 16:27 And the white one was way up here 16:28 and the color one was really low to the ground 16:31 and I thought I'm drinking out the white one. 16:35 Now how rebellious was that. 16:36 You know, I wasn't, I really wasn't-- 16:38 I'm thinking I'm from New York. 16:40 I'm not from here 16:41 and I had no sense of eminent danger 16:45 like something could have happened to me 16:46 and I just went on without problem. 16:48 It wasn't as prominent in New York? 16:49 Oh, no. 16:51 They didn't have separate drinking fountains 16:52 the things like that in New York. 16:53 Okay. You are in south now? 16:55 I was in the south. 16:56 I was 10-years-old. 16:57 I lived in the south from 10 to 13, 17:01 I was turning 13 17:03 because my dad went back to Oakwood. 17:05 So, yeah, I thought I'm from New York, 17:08 I'm just gonna do what I want to do. 17:10 But I'm like, I don't even, 17:12 I wasn't thinking about anybody 17:13 snatching me up or anything like that. 17:15 But yeah, it was an interesting time 17:19 but being at Oakwood, 17:21 you didn't feel the segregation as much 17:23 because it was an all black environment. 17:25 When you went into the town you did. 17:27 But at Oakwood you didn't. 17:29 So it was very interesting. 17:32 And from Oakwood, we went to Pine Forge 17:33 and my dad was the dean of boys there. 17:36 And so I also was at Pine Forge alumna and I love Pine Forge, 17:43 I love my fellow students from there 17:45 and I have to give a shout out 17:47 to all those who went to Pine Forge too. 17:48 Okay. 17:50 So we got to hear about your sister, 17:52 your mom and dad, your grandparents 17:54 and now we want to hear from Jason. 17:56 Jay, tell us about mom growing up. 17:59 Now, mom, we are gonna talk about 18:01 her being in the music business 18:02 but I'm not sure when some of your early memories 18:05 of mom what would that be? 18:08 Well, she was always, you have to go to church, 18:11 you have to go to church. 18:13 I remember that. Okay. 18:14 She was a wonderful mother and I have no complaints. 18:18 My childhood was great. 18:20 Now she had already come back to the Lord as you said, 18:22 baptize when you were in a womb yet, right? 18:24 Yes. 18:25 So you're growing up, now you got a mom who is very, 18:29 very spiritual 18:30 but she is wanting you to go to church all the time. 18:32 So by looking at him, 18:34 I would just guess Jason did everything 18:37 he was ever asked to do. 18:38 Was a perfect child went over Sabbath 18:41 and never ever drifted away, how am I going? 18:44 How am I doing? 18:49 This way I have to be honest. 18:52 I did drift away but as a kid I mean, 18:58 mom took excellent care of me. 19:00 She worked hard, she was doing, 19:03 she was still singing jingles and stuff in the city. 19:06 But as I got older 19:08 and stepped away from the church, 19:09 I was probably about 14, 19:12 I started smoking marijuana 19:13 and drinking and partying and stuff. 19:16 Now where was this? 19:17 This was in Texas. Texas. 19:19 This was in, yeah, Arlington, Texas. 19:20 All right. 19:21 And so she was going off to school. 19:25 She was already studying massage therapy at the time. 19:29 She's been in school a lot. 19:32 She goes to school. She is a lifer. 19:33 Yeah. We call that a lifer. 19:35 You might have a class after this. 19:36 Yeah. 19:38 She goes, she went to school a lot. 19:40 So while she was doing that, 19:41 I was doing all the wrong things. 19:45 And so I got involved in the wrong lifestyle. 19:50 And I think at that time, 19:52 I just didn't feel like church applied to me. 19:55 I didn't feel like they were speaking to me 19:58 and I felt like they were talking to my mom 20:00 and my grandparents and, you know, that generation. 20:03 But going through all that 20:08 and later on some other experiences in life 20:12 ilike when my appendix raptured inside of me. 20:14 You know, sometimes you get through a circumstance 20:18 and, you know, like thank You God. 20:21 And you thank the Lord 20:23 but then you're right back out there doing 20:24 what you were doing before. 20:27 So I ended up selling drugs and things of that nature 20:31 and then I got arrested. 20:33 And when I got arrested 20:37 I was like, you know what, 20:39 "God, if you get me out of this one, 20:42 I am done. I am done." 20:45 So I got out of that one. 20:47 I still wasn't going to church 20:48 and all of that but I left it alone. 20:52 I haven't touched drugs and well say, 20:54 I'll be 30 probably 20:56 like ten, nine, ten years. 20:58 Oh, that's great. 20:59 Somewhere around there. Yeah. 21:01 You know, I got to tell you a story, Danny, 21:03 because once I baptized Yvonne 21:05 and we did a show on Trinity Broadcasting together. 21:08 We co-hosted a show then she moves away to Texas, 21:10 but I always kept in touch. 21:11 And I was in Texas every now and again, 21:12 for several years I always check up with her. 21:15 And I remember when Jason was in high school 21:17 because she put him in church school 21:19 and Jason says, "I want to go to public school. 21:21 I want to go to public school." 21:22 And she said, "Okay, you know, 21:23 I'm gonna let you go to public school." 21:25 But the first time you call 21:27 and say you want to do something on Friday night, 21:29 you are back in church school. 21:31 So I didn't talk with her for about a month. 21:33 I said, Yvonne, how you're doing? 21:34 She says, "Jason is back in church school." 21:38 I got yanked out of-- 21:39 He didn't go two weeks, how can I think of a month. 21:41 But she's saying, he is back in church school. 21:42 I got yanked so fast. 21:43 Yeah. 21:45 And it was because I wanted to go to the dance. 21:46 I wanted to go to homecoming dance. 21:49 She was like, no, you are going back to back. 21:51 No, back, you're going to the church school. 21:53 That's true. That's true. That's true. 21:56 So some of that from your mother 21:57 came on down to you, it sound like. 21:59 I think it did. Right. 22:00 Good. 22:02 This is the way it is and no back talk 22:04 and I'm gonna do what's best for you. 22:07 And, you know, which I'm glad. 22:08 We grew up in generations. 22:10 My dad was that way and my mom. 22:12 I mean, they are gonna do what's best for you 22:14 no matter how miserable you were, all right. 22:17 My dad would say, I don't care how bad this hurt you, 22:19 I'm gonna do it for your benefit 22:21 and you get the whipping, you know. 22:23 And now I go back and say, "Praise the Lord." 22:25 Yes. 22:26 You know, she does the period the end thing. 22:28 Oh, yeah. 22:29 Yeah, tell us that when you were trying to sass. 22:32 Yeah, her word is final. 22:35 Period the end. 22:36 So I go. 22:38 I mean, don't talk back. 22:40 Yeah, I have heard that a few times myself. 22:42 Yeah, I surely have. 22:43 Period the end, this is the way. 22:45 Would you sing today, period, no, period the end? 22:48 That mean, don't try to get me. 22:50 I've got a throat problem or whatever. 22:52 And if you say, well, can you? 22:53 No, period the end. 22:55 So we all know and okay, she is not singing today, 22:58 you know. 22:59 Speaking of singing, now, we've heard from Jason 23:02 you're great mom, this is, you're Christian 23:04 but what happened to you? 23:06 You have two Christian parents, 23:09 you going to Oakwood, 23:10 you know, you, 23:12 what did you take in Oakwood? 23:14 I was a psychology major, social work, sociology miner. 23:20 And then after my mom died, 23:23 I never went back to Oakwood 23:25 after that Thanksgiving break 23:27 when my mom passed away 23:29 on December 6 of 1969. 23:31 So I never went back to Oakwood, 23:34 but I went to Hofstra University 23:35 and I finished from Hofstra 23:37 and then I went to Adelphi University 23:39 and got a master's in social work. 23:41 Okay, you got a master's in social work. 23:43 So did you plan on that being, why did you do that 23:47 because it seem like did you do it, 23:49 did you get into the field very long? 23:50 No. 23:52 it's so funny 23:53 because right after I finished the master's degree, 23:56 I started working in the field 23:58 and it was just like, 23:59 okay, I'm not, it wasn't fulfilling for me. 24:02 At the time I was pregnant with Mark my older son. 24:05 And I was of course married, pregnant but I should, 24:09 I shouldn't leave that part out. 24:10 Sure. 24:14 And I started practicing social work and I thought, 24:16 I really liked my clients 24:17 but I just didn't like the people 24:19 I was working with really. 24:20 And long story short, while I was doing that, 24:24 I was also singing in this other little group 24:26 that we just practiced and sang in basements. 24:29 You know, I practiced in the basement all the time. 24:31 And but the engineer, 24:34 our manager was also an engineer 24:36 and he worked in New York City. 24:38 And I had said to him, 24:40 I would love to do background vocal. 24:42 So I kind of want to do some, you know, oohs and aahs, 24:45 I listen to that in the radio, I figure I could do that. 24:48 Okay. So... 24:49 And you were good with parts already. 24:51 You heard parts and could sing, right? 24:53 Because I grew up around music. 24:55 Your mom and dad. 24:56 My mom and dad and my grandmother 24:59 and my paternal grandmother sang too. 25:01 So I was surrounded and my uncle Howard Hodge 25:04 who was an amazing musician, amazing arranger. 25:08 He arranged for people like Helen Reddy, Tom Jones, 25:12 Katharine Hepburn, I mean, he was tremendous 25:15 and he was murdered. 25:17 But that's another story. 25:18 Why didn't you pass that down to me? 25:20 Oh, no. 25:21 I wish I could now. 25:22 You were stingy with that. 25:25 You don't want to pass that musical gene down. 25:28 But you've learned to play the piano now. 25:29 That is true. 25:31 Well, yeah, taking piano lessons, 25:32 you're never too old. 25:33 Never. All right. 25:35 Okay. 25:36 So you got a chance to do, 25:38 is jingle the first thing you did. 25:39 When you say jingle, what do you mean jingle first of all? 25:41 Commercials. 25:42 Commercials. 25:43 Jingles, singing jingles is the top level 25:46 of studio singing that you can do. 25:49 I didn't start out doing jingles. 25:51 I started out singing background 25:52 on Peoples Records. 25:54 Okay. 25:55 So but I started singing when I started, 25:57 I was singing on some big artist names, 26:02 some big name artist. 26:04 Like? 26:06 Wow. 26:07 When I first started, 26:09 I think I did Roberta Flack early on. 26:14 Who did Charlie? 26:15 Did I do? 26:17 Well, I'm trying to remember. 26:18 See you're jogging my memory here. 26:19 That's all right. 26:21 This is your life and that's what this is about, 26:22 but you did a number of folk. 26:24 I did. Quincy Jones, I did Roberta Flack, I did... 26:31 who else did I sing on? 26:33 Of course Luther Vandross, Whitney Houston. 26:34 Just a lot of different-- 26:36 So you just said that chorus Luther Vandross and chorus, 26:39 you know, Whitney Houston, 26:42 those were just some of those that you. 26:44 You can make a shackle or two at that industry. 26:46 You can live quite well. 26:48 Oh, yeah. 26:49 Well, then when she moved into the jingle arena 26:51 that's when really make the money 26:53 because you make residuals. 26:54 Yeah. 26:56 So where as when you are doing sessions 26:58 you get booked like from 12 to 4, from 12 to 8 27:02 or for 10 to 4 something like that. 27:05 With the jingle you are in and out in an hour. 27:08 So you go in, you read the music, 27:13 they tell you how they want it. 27:14 They tell you how they want you to interpret it 27:17 and you give them that and you are gone. 27:20 It's just like, it's a dream, it's like-- 27:22 Okay, Folgers Coffee, tell us about that? 27:25 Folgers Coffee 27:26 was an amazingly lucrative campaign. 27:33 You can either do one spot or you get the campaign. 27:36 The campaign is every spot 27:38 within that a certain amount of time. 27:41 If that producer does ten different spots, 27:44 you got that campaign 27:45 you are on ten different jingles 27:47 and you get paid for every time, 27:51 every time it plays, you know-- 27:52 Radio or television. 27:54 Radio and television. Wow. 27:55 So I was a part of-- 27:56 Any where in America or around the world? 27:58 Screen Actors Guild and AFTRA, 27:59 American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. 28:01 Okay. 28:03 So, you know, I get pensions from both of them 28:07 because I always-- 28:08 Even today? Even today. 28:09 Praise the Lord. Wow. 28:11 That's amazing. 28:12 Jason is smiling. 28:14 Are those handed on down, you know? 28:16 Yeah. I will negotiate after this. 28:22 I mean she got two, she probably only needs one 28:25 you should maybe get the other, you know. 28:26 You taught me to share when I was a kid. 28:28 I did. 28:29 I did. 28:31 And I'm expecting you to do that as I get older. 28:34 Indeed, praise the Lord. 28:36 You know, it's a marvelous world though, Danny. 28:39 I went on a couple because that world interested me 28:42 I think I went with you to do M&Ms 28:45 and we were in, went in evening we were in maybe 7 out by 8:30 28:49 and you are done. 28:51 And every time that thing runs a check comes, you know. 28:54 So it is a happy time 28:58 But you know, in all seriousness 29:02 it is fantasy like in terms 29:05 of the amount of money that you make 29:07 but I would not trade what I have, 29:10 what I had then with what I have now 29:13 I would not trade what I have now for anything. 29:16 For I'm not making of course the money that I was making 29:19 but the fulfillment of knowing 29:22 that I can use what God has given me 29:25 to bring others to Him 29:28 or to worship Him or to involve people in worshiping God. 29:32 To me there is nothing more fulfilling than that. 29:35 So, yeah, I made a lot of money and I live the life, 29:39 I did and it was the best of both worlds 29:41 because I made alot of money but I was anonymous. 29:44 Nobody knew who I was, 29:46 so I didn't have to live my life 29:47 like Luther can't go to the store 29:50 because he would get mobbed by people. 29:52 You know as he is going to the store or Whitney 29:54 they couldn't go to the store. 29:55 I could do whatever I wanted to do 29:57 because nobody knew who I was. 30:00 They don't put the faces with the voice that you hear. 30:02 No. Right. 30:04 Some of the commercials you did, 30:06 a few of the others we might know like Burger King. 30:08 Burger King, Charmin bathroom tissue, 30:10 Kerusso. 30:12 Kerusso, yeah, I was definitely on that one. 30:15 Oh, man, Pizza Hut. You were on Sesame Street. 30:18 Yeah, I was on Sesame Street, yeah. 30:20 Well, and you did Saturday Night Live too. 30:22 All right, things like that. 30:24 I did with Peter Tosh and Mick Jagger and... 30:27 Yeah, as I look over my life, I'm so grateful. 30:32 I'm grateful that the Lord allowed me 30:35 to do some of the things that I've done 30:38 but it was all part of the plan. 30:42 He didn't let me get too far out 30:44 before He wheeled me back in 30:46 and I'm just so grateful to Him for that. 30:48 Okay, so you did the George Jefferson thing, 30:51 you moving on up on the east side. 30:53 I did live on east side literally. 30:55 Literally on east side. 30:57 And up and up to the top, 30:59 you are up in one of the big high rise. 31:02 I think it's like on the fifth floor 31:04 so being in the high rise though. 31:05 Yeah, on the east side. 31:07 So you are moving on up. 31:08 I was moving on up. You did move on up. 31:10 On the east side. 31:11 Did you have like to the point you had the nanny's 31:13 and all that kind of stuff? 31:14 I did. I had live in, live in hell. 31:16 What, you did all that? 31:17 Yeah, because my schedule was so unpredictable. 31:21 I could get called for a 12 AM 31:24 session and that was, that was grueling, 31:27 but you have to be ready to go, 31:29 so I needed someone to be there with my kids when I went out. 31:33 And so-- 31:34 You and someone else 31:35 now well known in the Adventist church 31:37 you worked with. 31:38 Tell us who she is? Yolanda, Yolanda Palmer. 31:41 Oh, yeah. 31:42 Yolanda and I have just-- 31:45 we've been together since the '70s 31:48 and that's when we were doing jingles and. 31:52 Well, I started doing jingles in the '80s. 31:54 Actually we were doing sessions together 31:56 and then I started doing the jingles in the '80s. 31:59 She said the benefit of not going out in public 32:02 and being recognized so much 32:06 I know that when I went to Whitney Houston's funeralz 32:08 with Yvonne 32:10 and it seemed like everybody there in the business knew her 32:12 and was talking to her and Yvonne, 32:14 where have you been and all of this. 32:15 So in the industry she is very well known. 32:17 They know her. 32:19 People know who she is 32:20 but some members like Southern Illinois 32:22 what are you doing there? 32:23 What? 32:25 Chicago? 32:26 No, Southern Illinois. 32:27 Springfield? 32:29 That's as far south as they think we go, 32:30 we're good 175 miles south of Springfield but there, 32:33 you know, what are you doing there? 32:35 So it was people kind of imagine 32:37 you been out of the city, 32:39 you are New York to Dallas then coming to here. 32:41 But what brought you of course 32:43 was been manager of Dare to Dream Network 32:46 and actually, you know, we can say founder, 32:49 co-founder whatever you want to call it, 32:50 but coming here a dream that we all had 32:53 that literally-- 32:56 in fact, just tell us we got to get a little bit more, 32:58 we got some time. 32:59 You went into, you did your master's in social, right? 33:03 Social work. 33:05 But then that Jason says you were in school a long time. 33:08 Yeah. 33:09 You may have a class after this he is saying 33:11 but something there is probably something going on 33:14 she is taking class. 33:15 But you got into alternative medicine. 33:17 I did. 33:18 Let's talk about that for a bit? 33:20 Wow. 33:21 Well, in the jingle business you have a lot of time 33:24 on your hands because, 33:25 you know, you go in you do a session-- 33:27 After you singing and then you get your check 33:28 and you go deposit it in a bank 33:30 then you got lot of time on your hands. 33:32 You do. 33:33 And you get your checks through the mail. 33:35 So we call that mailbox money. 33:37 So you just go to email box 33:39 and you have maybe five or ten checks 33:40 and they were sizable 33:42 and you just put them in the bank. 33:43 It was really, it was really very interesting. 33:46 But-- 33:48 What a way to put it. 33:50 But during that time, 33:52 the Lord gave me this passion for natural health 33:54 and so I began to study 33:58 just alternative health in alternative medicine. 34:01 I began to study herbs and their application 34:06 and it was as though God had given me this gift for. 34:10 So I started really, really studying. 34:13 And I'm the type who when I get involved in something, 34:16 I immerse myself into it. 34:18 So I just got very, very involved 34:21 and I started taking classes. 34:23 So I took iridology, I took reflexology, 34:29 I took, and then I later, 34:32 I went into acupuncture 34:34 and traditional Chinese medicine. 34:36 I became a naturopathic doctor 34:39 and board certified 34:41 in traditional Chinese medicine. 34:43 So it was then so I was able to have my own-- 34:45 You got too much time on your hand. 34:47 Oh, yeah. 34:48 Well, that it was, 34:51 the traditional Chinese medical study was very intense 34:55 because you had to learn all the herbs 34:57 and their properties 34:58 and how to blend them 35:00 because you had your own pharmacy, herbal pharmacy. 35:03 And so it was, it was very, it was an intense study. 35:06 And poor Jason, I know he was, bless his heart 35:09 I was always studying 35:10 because I was trying to make a better life for him as well. 35:14 And I became your pincushion. 35:16 I know. 35:17 Can pick everything she learned. 35:19 Come here, Jay. 35:21 Let me work on you real quick. 35:23 Let me do this. Let me do that. 35:24 Oh, man. 35:25 That's true. Even acupuncture? 35:27 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, bless his heart. 35:31 Tell us little, tell us a little bit about acupuncture 35:33 then and now? 35:35 Well, when I went to the school for the open house, 35:41 I went to the Dallas College of Oriental Medicine 35:44 and I went to the school for their open house 35:46 and I remember asking, 35:47 "Is this related to eastern religion?" 35:51 And the guy told me, no. 35:54 He said, this is, 35:56 it does have elements of Darwinism in it 35:58 but you don't, 36:00 you don't practice eastern religion with it. 36:03 So I thought okay, 36:06 then this will be good 36:08 because it offers me clinical experience 36:11 and supervision and, 36:12 you know, it was an interesting course of study and I needed, 36:17 I needed to have that kind of clinical supervision. 36:21 So I went to the school and while I was in school 36:28 there were some things that I kind of brushed aside. 36:30 Like I thought that's a little bit strange but, 36:33 you know, I just kind of figured, 36:36 okay, I don't need to really worry about that. 36:39 Well, later my friend Yolanda, after I was practicing, 36:44 my friend Yolanda told me, you know, that is of the devil. 36:48 And she and I really, we fell out for little while over it 36:51 because my flesh just weld up in me and I was saying, 36:55 you don't know, what you're talking about. 36:56 I'm the one that studied this. 36:58 I know it's not from the devil. 36:59 And I would pray with my patients first 37:03 like asking God to help me with, 37:05 you know, but the Lord is so merciful. 37:07 I mean, really, 37:09 He's probably shaking His head looking me like this, 37:11 this child is just out of it. 37:12 But I thought I was doing something right 37:16 and then later I found out that it really was not of God. 37:21 And as I began to investigate it, 37:25 once I saw that it had its roots in astrology 37:30 and that and I felt like oh, my goodness. 37:35 I've been doing something that was rooted in astrology. 37:39 And as soon as I found that out 37:41 and it was 95 percent of my income. 37:44 As soon as I found that out I left it 37:47 because I knew that I had a decision to make 37:50 that either I was gonna continue along that path, 37:54 you know, of practicing acupuncture 37:58 or I was gonna do what God was telling me to do 38:00 and touch not the unclean thing. 38:03 Get away from it. 38:04 And there are gonna be some folks who write in 38:08 and call and say, you know, acupuncture is fine. 38:12 It works. 38:13 Yes, it works but like my dear brother Schubert Palmer, 38:16 Dr. Schubert Palmer said to me, acupuncture does work 38:20 but what's the power behind it? 38:22 And that is the question, what is the power behind it? 38:28 This is where, Danny, Yvonne, in the years I've known her, 38:31 I use a term gets point with me, 38:33 when she came to the Lord 38:35 she was in the industry making six figures 38:38 we can say, doing quite well. 38:40 I used to tease her because she and Yolanda, 38:43 this line of Mercedes Benz would come and park 38:45 in front of the church 38:46 and everyone will come to church 38:47 and sling they mix all over there, 38:49 you know, where they met over the pews. 38:51 But when they were baptized, 38:53 this group of men and women decided 38:55 there are certain kinds commercials 38:57 we are not gonna do any more. 38:58 We are not gonna sing for things that enter the body. 39:00 No more liquor, no more cigarettes, 39:02 no more these kinds of things. 39:03 They cut that right away. 39:05 And of course in New York the industry is such that, 39:07 okay, if you don't do it, Danny, I'll find somebody else. 39:09 I'm not gonna beg you, I'll just get the next person 39:10 because there's a line of people. 39:12 Sure. 39:13 So if you don't want to, we go to somebody else. 39:15 So they each took this immediate salary hit, 39:18 deep cut in their salary 39:20 because they chose not to do certain things 39:21 that they felt were against the Lord. 39:23 Then years later, 39:24 she's involved in a lucrative practice 39:27 that's her life. 39:28 She finds out that it's not of the Lord. 39:30 Again there is no dicker, there is no, 39:32 you know, so okay, Lord, I'm not doing anymore. 39:35 So now what do I do? 39:36 You know, because you lose A and you take my dime, 39:39 I need a quarter, 39:40 give me a quarter replaced by that kind of thing. 39:42 But at least two times I saw where she made a decision 39:45 for the kingdom of God 39:47 that resulted in great financial loss. 39:50 Not a couple of dollars but 50, 60, 70, 80 percent 39:53 of your salary that's considerable 39:56 but she did it and I've always and I've told her about that. 39:58 I salute her for that 40:00 that she put Christ first 40:01 and the Bible says, when you put Christ first, 40:03 you look out for Him, He is gonna look out for you. 40:05 And He did. 40:07 And praise the Lord, He did. 40:08 Every need was taken care of. 40:10 Everything that I needed, the Lord gave me. 40:15 And so, and He had laid on my heart to finish this book 40:22 and I did and it was the book 40:24 that I finished that got me out here for an interview. 40:27 Okay, tell us about it? 40:29 Well, Pastor CA, 40:32 he and I kept in touch over the years 40:34 and I told him that I've written this book on-- 40:38 it was called "Great Days: 40:40 Nine Principles To Revolutionize Your Life." 40:42 And so he invited me to come out here 40:47 to 3ABN to interview. 40:48 Now, this is when I had walked away 40:50 from my acupuncture practice 40:53 and I was looking to promote the book 40:55 as a source of income for me. 40:58 And so he invited me out here to share the book 41:03 and my testimony and all that. 41:04 Well, he wasn't able to interview me 41:07 but you were, Danny. 41:08 And so you interviewed me and we talked about, 41:13 you know, my testimony and all that 41:14 and then subsequently we began to talk about my burden 41:18 for the inner city 41:19 and you had already started. 41:22 At one point you had founded the inner city ministry, 41:28 on TV it was world of praise with Pastor Wintley Phipps 41:31 but his schedule and all that 41:33 it didn't allow for that to grow 41:35 and so it was just kind of lying dormant. 41:38 And you felt impressed 41:41 by the Lord that I should be the general manager 41:44 of Dare to Dream 41:45 and I can't tell you how grateful I am for. 41:50 Because this is, this being here, 41:53 this is why I'm on this planet to do Dare to Dream. 41:57 I know that. 41:58 I know that God created me to do this work here 42:03 and I'm so grateful. 42:05 So thank you. 42:07 Well, we are grateful that you are here. 42:09 I'm grateful that CA scheduled you 42:11 but what he told me to do which I rarely ever do. 42:14 He said, "Look, I was gonna take Yvonne out to eat lunch 42:18 and talk to her and show her around the ministry. 42:21 Can you do that for me because I'm not, 42:23 she just flown in by herself? 42:25 She is gonna be there a while, she needs to do." 42:28 We would have never got into talking 42:30 about the Dare to Dream 42:32 which was you actually come up with the name Dare to Dream 42:35 but our world of praise 42:36 we would not have probably even got into that 42:39 if I just interview her and say, thanks for coming. 42:41 It's nice to-- so he say, 42:43 would you show her around the ministry? 42:45 So I took you to different facilities. 42:47 We went to eat and then in the process 42:49 I saw where your heart was, where your heart is. 42:52 And so I said, 42:53 man, this is got to be a fit right here. 42:55 So we know the Lord dropped you here. 42:57 It wasn't by accident 42:59 but it was by divine providence. 43:00 Amen. 43:01 But now you've come here Dare to Dream started to grow 43:04 and you need some help 43:06 and how did Jason, 43:09 you all tell us how this happened? 43:11 Well, I was here as a volunteer first 43:16 for about six months 43:19 and then I began working 43:22 and the Lord had me in the chair 43:24 but the Lord was actually coordinating. 43:26 I mean, just brining the best people 43:29 and all of that. 43:30 But I really needed some help 43:32 because, you know, running a network by myself 43:35 and I also, you know, rebuked when I say that 43:38 because I wasn't running it by myself 43:39 because Lord was, you know, doing it. 43:41 But I was and I had all the resources here 43:44 of course on my disposal and that was a blessing 43:46 but I really needed some help. 43:49 And Jason, Jason had worked for me in Dallas 43:54 when I was practicing, 43:55 when I had my own practice in Dallas 43:58 with acupuncture and stuff. 43:59 Jason was my office manager. 44:01 So I knew his, I knew his work ethic. 44:04 I knew how he was with people. 44:06 How he gets along with people and people just love Jason. 44:09 He just most lovable guy. 44:11 So I thought-- 44:12 That's not a mom speaking. 44:14 You can pay for that. 44:15 That's not mom speaking thought. 44:17 I don't want one of those pensions. 44:20 And so he was at the time out of the church. 44:26 So I prayed and I've been praying for him anyway 44:29 and my older son and Make came here too 44:32 and I had not mentioned Mark 44:33 and I have to give my older son is short out 44:36 because I love him more. 44:37 Absolutely. Absolutely. 44:38 Mark came her too but not as my assistant 44:41 but Jason came to a day of prayer 44:44 and I asked him would he consider coming 44:48 and being my assistant? 44:49 And you were in the managing and food industry managing 44:52 a restaurant that seemed likely. 44:54 We don't have time to get into that story. 44:56 We'll have to do yours on another one 44:58 but eventually you said yes to the Lord 45:01 and you came and of course now got as a great team 45:04 working together with Dare to Dream. 45:05 What we want to do, 45:07 I promised the folks in the beginning 45:09 we would play a song that you've done. 45:11 The song that you say is your favorite song 45:15 that you ever sung and it's called "Just in Time." 45:19 So we know that you will be blessed. 45:21 I'm blessed every time I hear her sing it 45:23 and see the pictures 45:24 that the crew kind of put together 45:26 to give us a picture 45:27 of the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. 45:29 So this Yvonne Lewis "Just in Time." 45:51 There were famines 45:55 and earthquakes 45:57 With trouble all around 46:02 The heavens did shake 46:07 No peace could be found 46:12 There were wars and strife 46:17 On every hand 46:23 It seemed God had lost 46:27 With no hope 46:30 for man 46:36 "Where is your God?" 46:38 the demons cried 46:40 "He's left you here to die 46:46 Your truth has failed 46:50 It's all been a lie" 46:55 But a shout from Heaven 47:00 Can now be heard 47:06 It came from God 47:10 The Living 47:14 Word 47:19 Then just in time, 47:24 the Savior came 47:28 Just in time, 47:32 He called my name 47:36 Salvation's plan 47:40 for fallen man 47:45 Redemption 47:47 by the Great 47:49 I AM 47:55 "Soon there appears in the east a small black cloud, 47:58 half the size of a man's hand. 48:01 It is the cloud which surrounds the Savior 48:04 and which seems in the distance to be shrouded in darkness. 48:08 The people of God 48:10 know this to be the sign of the Son of Man. 48:13 In solemn silence, 48:15 they gaze upon it as it draws nearer the earth, 48:18 becoming lighter and more glorious, 48:20 until it is a great white cloud, 48:23 its base a glory like consuming fire, 48:26 and above it the rainbow of the covenant. 48:29 Jesus rides forth as a mighty conqueror. 48:32 Not now a 'man of sorrows,' 48:34 to drink the bitter cup of shame and woe, 48:37 He comes, victor in heaven and earth, 48:40 to judge the living and the dead. 48:42 With anthems of celestial melody 48:45 the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng, 48:48 attend Him on His way. 48:50 The firmament seems filled with radiant forms-- 48:54 'ten thousand times ten thousand, 48:57 and thousands of thousands.' 48:59 No human pen can portray the scene, 49:02 no mortal mind is adequate to conceive its splendor. 49:06 'His glory covered the heavens, 49:09 and the earth was full of his praise. 49:12 And his brightness was like the light.' 49:15 As the living cloud comes still nearer, 49:17 every eye beholds the Prince of life. 49:20 No crown of thorns now mars that sacred head, 49:24 but a diadem of glory rests on His holy brow. 49:28 His countenance outshines the dazzling brightness 49:32 of the noonday sun. 49:33 'And on His robe 49:35 and on His thigh a name written, 49:37 King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.' 49:42 Then just in time, 49:48 the Savior came 49:52 Just in time, 49:56 He called my name 50:00 Salvation's plan 50:04 for fallen man 50:09 Redemption by the Great I AM 50:16 Salvation's plan 50:20 for fallen man 50:27 Redemption 50:30 by the Great 50:34 I AM 50:41 Amen, Amen! 50:47 Amen! 50:50 Amen! 51:04 Amen. Wow. 51:05 Praise the Lord. 51:07 That song, Danny, 51:08 flesh and blood do not reveal that song to you 51:10 when you wrote that song really the Lord inspired that. 51:14 Oh, absolutely. 51:16 Yvonne, there is somebody probably watching today 51:18 right now 51:19 that they are in this valley of decision. 51:21 What would you say to them? Oh. 51:22 They are looking at the world like you did before 51:25 but now you, what would you tell them? 51:27 You can never lose by obeying God. 51:32 God has a master plan for you 51:34 and so if you just will follow God 51:37 and do what He would have you to do, 51:40 you can't lose. 51:42 Don't be afraid. 51:43 God says, I will-- Jesus said, 51:44 "I'll never leave you nor forsake you. 51:46 I've got your back." 51:48 And He will make sure that you are cared for 51:51 and taking care of. 51:53 God is so faithful, He is so reliable, 51:56 He will never let you down. 51:59 Man, friends, everyone can let you down, 52:03 Jesus will never let you down. 52:05 You can't lose by being obedient. 52:06 And, you know, I'm convinced 52:08 if I hooked her up to a lie detector, 52:10 she would pass it, 52:11 when she says she is happier now more peace 52:14 live into, well, we don't pay her that much 52:16 at Dare to Dream. 52:18 Believe it is right 52:19 she was with all the money coming in. 52:21 Is that true? That's true. 52:22 You found the peace, the real peace. 52:24 Absolutely. I wouldn't trade what I have now for anything. 52:28 Nothing. Absolutely. Absolutely. 52:29 Thank you so much. 52:30 We are gonna take a short break, 52:32 go to news break and we will be back 52:33 for a closing thought. |
Revised 2016-03-17