Participants: Jim Gilley (Host), Bertold Hibner
Series Code: TDY
Program Code: TDY015047A
|
00:01 I want to spend my life
00:05 Spend my life 00:07 Mending broken people 00:12 I want to spend my life 00:18 Removing pain 00:23 Lord, let my words 00:27 Let my words 00:30 Heal a heart that hurts 00:34 I want to spend my life 00:40 Mending broken people 00:46 I want to spend my life 00:51 Mending broken people. 01:07 Well, welcome. 01:08 We are so happy that you could join us today 01:10 and we have a very interesting talk 01:14 and visit that I'm sure 01:18 you are going to be blessed by being a part of. 01:21 And you have always blessed 3ABN with your prayers, 01:25 your financial support 01:27 and we thank you so much for that. 01:29 Without that we could not be on the air. 01:32 You know, we have recently uh, 01:36 been at the General Conference but now I'm taping this program 01:39 actually is after General Conference 01:41 and I became acquainted with a gentleman there 01:44 and we have invited him to come and to do a program with us. 01:49 His name is Bertold Hibner 01:52 and we are happy to welcome you. 01:54 Nice to meet you. 01:56 And he is the president of the Lithuanian Conference 01:59 of the Seventh Day Adventist and the story of the work 02:04 in Lithuania is extremely important. 02:07 You know, we are living in a world 02:08 where there is some persecution, 02:10 uh, the devil is doing everything he could to stop 02:13 the work and we're going to listen 02:16 to some of the attempts by Satan 02:21 through the World War II 02:22 and the Nazis and then later 02:24 through the Soviets to bring about an end 02:28 to Christianity in countries like Lithuania 02:32 and the others that were in the, 02:34 behind the iron curtain. 02:36 And so today, we are going to be looking at that 02:39 and how God rescued His work. 02:43 How He has protected His people and how He has been, 02:48 had His hand over them and how they have prospered 02:52 even in time of persecution, which has been severe. 02:56 And so I really hope that you'd stay with us, 02:58 call your friends and tell them to join us. 03:01 And now we're going to enjoy our good friend, 03:05 Darrell Marshall. 03:07 He is going to be presenting some music that I know, 03:09 you are going to appreciate and enjoy 03:12 and the song is, "A Song Was Born." 03:28 A song was born 03:32 when I found Jesus 03:37 And in my heart 03:42 He came to stay 03:47 Now the reason I sing 03:52 Is that He saved me 03:56 A new life He gave me 04:01 Now I walk His way 04:05 Just like the sunrise 04:10 On a springtime morning 04:15 He filled my longing 04:20 In a moment's time 04:25 A song was born and it's melody 04:34 Shall thrill my soul eternally 05:03 A song was born 05:07 When I found my Jesus 05:12 And in my heart 05:17 He came to stay 05:21 Now the reason I sing 05:26 Is that He saved me 05:31 A new life He gave me 05:36 Now I walk His way 05:40 Just like the sunrise 05:45 On a springtime morning 05:50 He filled my longing 05:55 In a moment's time 06:00 A song was born and it's melody 06:09 Shall thrill my soul eternally 06:18 Shall thrill my soul eternally 06:37 Thank you, Darrell. 06:38 We always enjoy having Darrell come to 3ABN, 06:41 especially to our camp meetings. 06:43 He's just a real joy to be around. 06:46 Love to hear him sing. 06:47 He has a very amazing voice 06:49 and travels around the country and many, many churches. 06:53 And singing and sharing his talent 06:58 that God has given him and if you'd like to reach him, 07:01 you can always reach him through 3ABN 07:04 and we'll tell you how can book him for a concert. 07:09 Well, we welcome you, Pastor Hibner, 07:12 and we are so happy that you could be with us 07:15 and I saw you briefly at GC uh, 07:19 and we had heard from good friends 07:21 that you were going to be in this area 07:23 and so we were very happy to have you uh, 07:26 Dickens and Zeta, they are good friends here 07:28 and volunteered with 3ABN and so and Zeta 07:33 I think knew you and Clair back in Lithuania. 07:36 Yes. 07:38 And so she told us that you would be coming 07:40 and we've invited you to come 07:42 and tell the story of Lithuania and the work there. 07:46 But first of all, I'd like to know 07:48 a little bit about your story. 07:49 Tell me uh, about you, your history, 07:53 where you were born and so forth. 07:55 Thank you, Pastor Jim, for invitation. 07:59 I was born in Lithuania in 1968. 08:03 My parents were physicians. 08:07 My father, who is still alive, 08:11 he was a physician and doctor and my mum, 08:16 she passed away already and she also was a doctor uh, 08:20 so I grew up in a home, nice home, happy home 08:27 and for which I'm grateful to the Lord and my parents. 08:32 So my father is a Adventist Church member 08:37 and my grandfather was a church member, 08:41 Adventist and my grandfather's mother was also an Adventist 08:46 so a kind of generation 08:48 Okay. 08:49 Is a kind of sequence. 08:50 My mummy is an, my mum was a Roman Catholic. 08:54 So uh, but we had a very nice and pleasant home 09:00 and when circumstances 09:02 when I can grow and for which I 'm grateful. 09:05 Right. 09:06 After school, I went to Kaunas to study 09:11 as Lithuanian doctor and I finished my university 09:16 but during that time, the Lord called me 09:18 to minister in the church. 09:22 I became acquainted 09:24 to this Adventist Church in early childhood. 09:29 I remember my dad took me at that time, 09:32 during Soviet Union time, took to the private house 09:36 where the worship happened in Siauliai or in Kaunas 09:42 because only two places at that time were available. 09:45 There was only privately. 09:48 So I became acquainted to this Adventist Church 09:51 and we started to read the Bible. 09:53 So during my childhood and my youth time, 09:56 I read the Bible. 09:58 So and I knew about the Lord Jesus Christ 10:03 and I was interested in that so when the Lord decided, 10:07 He invited me to come to the church. 10:10 That was in 1992, when I was baptized, 10:15 during one of the big campaigns 10:18 and basically after three months, 10:21 I was invited to work in the church. 10:24 Okay. 10:25 Well, so that's where it shouldered over you. 10:29 Yeah, now, you were married. 10:31 Yes, I married to Waima 10:35 and we married in 1993 10:40 and then in 1994 was born my first, our first child. 10:46 We have four children. 10:48 And my first child is already grown 10:51 and he's studying in the university. 10:55 So I begun my ministry as a deacon 11:01 and then as an Elder and while working as Elder, 11:06 because at that time, 11:08 in 1992 was only two pastors throughout the Lithuania. 11:15 So I was kind of volunteering. 11:18 The Mission Field President at the time, 11:20 Mission Field President, Daniel-- 11:22 He knew me from the childhood, 11:24 so I guess he invited me that's why to serve in Kaunas 11:27 where no pastor was. 11:29 Just the Pastor Cumming from other city. 11:32 So he kind of invited me to be in charge. 11:35 All right. 11:36 And you can understand as a young person, 11:39 so it wasn't that easy. 11:41 No. 11:42 Well, but thank you to the Lord, 11:43 He guided me and helped me and thanks to the nice people 11:48 and well, after one or two years I became uh, 11:55 friends with Sister Zeta, 11:58 she was living in the Vilnius that time. 12:01 So this older, elderly people, they helped me. 12:05 Yes. 12:06 So after being a church elder, in 1994, 12:11 I was ordained as a Pastor, secretary of treasure, 12:15 then, I worked for three years 12:17 and then I was secretary in 1997 12:21 and in 1999, the church sent me to study. 12:25 Okay. 12:26 College in Religion 12:28 and that was the New Birth College in UK. 12:31 United Kingdom. 12:33 So I came back and in 1992, sorry, in 2002, 12:37 I came back after my studies, I finished Masters in Religion 12:41 and then the Lord decided me to, 12:47 and people elected me to be as a president. 12:50 All right. So since 2000. 12:52 So you've been, 2000 and what now? 12:54 In 2003. 12:56 I started and in 2013, 13:00 we became a trained conference. 13:01 Okay, before that you were a mission. 13:03 Were you? Yes. 13:04 Okay. 13:06 So and in 2013, I was again 13:07 re-elected as a conference president. 13:08 How many churches are in that conference now? 13:11 We have 17. 13:12 17? 13:13 Churches throughout. From two now to seventeen. 13:15 Yes, two small churches. We would say. 13:18 In 1992, in throughout the Lithuania 13:21 we had 46 members. 13:23 Oh, wow. 13:24 So the Lord made a marvelous job I would say. 13:28 Yes. We have grown- 13:29 So how many members now? 13:31 We have now 874. 13:34 From 46 to 874. 13:36 We have been even in up to 1246. 13:41 You had a lot of people that emigrated there, 13:44 from there to Israel and other places, haven't you? 13:47 Yes, as you said in Israel, and also United Kingdom, 13:52 Germany and some America. 13:55 So where they have some kind of relatives. 13:58 And that's where you had your loss, 14:01 as they moved to other places. 14:02 Yes. 14:03 Yeah, well, that's fantastic though, 14:05 when you consider 46 members 14:08 to nearly around a thousand ball apart. 14:12 Uh, that's 20 times its growth in that period of time. 14:18 Praise the Lord. 14:19 That is a tremendous growth. 14:21 It really is. Well, that's exciting. 14:23 Now, the history though of the work in Lithuania 14:27 has not always been so positive. 14:29 You had some real struggles. 14:31 When did the work actually start there? 14:34 If we look to the historical documents, 14:37 uh, the historical documents say 14:40 that the first Adventist Church member was baptized in 1901. 14:46 That's the first baptism. 14:48 1901? Yes. 14:49 But the church established, kind of congregation, 14:53 first congregation established was in 1918. 14:56 1918. All right. 14:58 That's the small town Zagare. 14:59 How, are they registered at the time 15:01 or just they started the church? 15:03 Just started the church uh, as you mentioned 15:07 it very important event was in 1927, 15:12 when the Lithuanian government kind of registered 15:16 and recognized the Lithuanian Mission Field. 15:20 Lithuanian Mission Field Will actually started was, 15:23 actually started in 1921. 15:28 That time Eastern German Union President, 15:33 Shugart, he started the job and he kind of empowered it 15:39 and asked Pastor Edward Angelides. 15:43 It was Edward Angelides. 15:44 And he started the job because Lithuania 15:48 was a little bit say, not say divided but was in two parts, 15:54 small Lithuanian, big Lithuanian. 15:55 Now let me go back to 1901, the first baptism. 16:00 Now they don't baptize themselves. 16:03 How did they come to accept the message 16:05 and who baptized that person? 16:07 So according to documents, 16:09 we believe that was a Pastor Angelides. 16:12 So he was a... 16:13 Is he from Germany? 16:15 We believe he was from Germany. 16:16 Okay. 16:17 Because the first member 16:19 was baptized near Klaipeda City, 16:22 which at the time was called Memel from Germany. 16:24 Okay, so did you-- Evangelistic meeting 16:27 or Bible studies or what happened? 16:29 We believe that was a Bible studies. 16:30 Bible studies. 16:32 Just the private Bible studies when he worked. 16:34 Well, we move on beyond the beginning of it. 16:36 Now we got a little background. 16:38 Let's go to World War II and the challenges, 16:41 'cause your church was growing a little bit 16:43 before World War II, and then what happened in World War 2? 16:48 Well, the document say as that, before the World War II, 16:53 we had about 500 members ready. 16:58 And as we mentioned it was a little Mission Field, 17:01 it was recognized by Lithuanian government, 17:03 but during World War 2, there was some difficulties 17:10 during the war and towards the end of the wars 17:14 some people who were, we believe German background, 17:19 went away from Lithuania. 17:21 They left probably to Germany or other countries. 17:25 So we lost quite a lot of members 17:27 and of course during the War also were some difficulties 17:35 because church members do not want to go to the War 17:39 or participate, use the gun or, 17:43 and that gave quite a lot of difficulties. 17:46 Because they were forced to be a part of the Nazi regime, 17:49 in the sense or become a part of the German army. 17:52 Yes, so and of course, they didn't want to do that. 17:56 Right. 17:57 So, they had to kind of go through the uh, 18:02 let's say process when they could have persecuted 18:05 or asked to do what they don't want to do. 18:11 So basically they had to suffer. 18:14 There are some documents 18:16 that some of them really suffered severe. 18:18 Oh, yeah. 18:19 Now the War is over 18:21 and I'm sure the people thought, 18:23 oh, this is wonderful now, this is going to bring freedom 18:27 and then the Nazis have been defeated 18:29 and all of this and then all of that church, 18:33 it was divided and given to the Nazis, 18:35 to the Soviets, excuse me 18:37 and it, because part of the Soviet Union 18:40 and that became even worst, didn't it? 18:44 Yes, as you say uh, we had a church building 18:52 but we got a church building in 1946, 47 18:57 and quite soon it was taken away. 19:00 Yeah. 19:01 As we call it that word, nationalized. 19:04 I don't know whether it is correct in English. 19:06 Right, the same thing here. 19:08 Yes, but that's what it they call it 19:10 and it was very sad. 19:12 Yes. 19:14 It was very sad because uh, we know a Pastor, 19:19 Edwardus-- 19:22 So during Soviet Union time he had to had a permission, 19:27 a special document from the government 19:30 that he can perform a minister's duty. 19:33 But only in the city he lived. 19:36 For example, if he lives in Kaunas, 19:39 so in Kaunas you can visit the church members. 19:41 You are not allowed to visit 19:42 the church member outside the Kaunas. 19:44 That was a kind of very strict regulations 19:48 and also Pastor--Siauliai. 19:50 So we had a church building. 19:53 The Adventist Church helped us to buy 19:55 but it was taken away and actually never given back. 20:00 For the reason that, 20:03 now it belongs to the educational system 20:05 because they were libraries. 20:07 So the government ruled that, that is not- 20:12 Did they give you compensation later 20:14 and perhaps other properties in place of that? 20:18 or at some parts of the Soviet Union 20:20 they did that where they had taken away the properties 20:24 and then after the communist regime fell in 1991, 20:30 they, over a period of time in some communities, 20:34 they said, "Well, we can't give you that back 20:36 because it's been used as a library 20:38 or it's been used as some type of a public building 20:43 but we will give you another piece of property 20:46 or something in its place." 20:48 Did they do any compensation of that kind 20:50 for you in Lithuania? 20:52 Uh, you know, 20:53 it's a bit difficult to clearly define that 20:57 because the documentation say that 21:02 it is actual Nazi in place of that. 21:06 There is no document of this. 21:08 But there is a document that Pastor got the flat. 21:12 However, it is not clear, documentally, 21:15 why he got a flat. 21:16 Is it as a compensation 21:18 or because he just need it as a place to live. 21:21 So it's a kind of bit difficult to very clearly draw the line. 21:27 Right, okay, that flat though will go 21:30 on to the church more than the individual? 21:33 Uh, the flat he, the Pastor got after, 21:38 belong to the individual, not to the church. 21:41 Okay, well, it's definitely was a real set back 21:47 to God's work under the Soviet influence 21:51 and through out that whole region, 21:53 I know I've spent a lot of time Ukraine and Russia 21:56 and it has been amazing 22:00 how the church could even survive under the persecution 22:05 that they suffered during those years and I know, 22:09 there's no, that's certainly true in Lithuania 22:12 because you went from around 500 members down 22:15 to like 46 members. 22:17 Instead of increasing you decreased 22:20 during that period of time. 22:22 Uh, mostly because um, uh, the government, 22:30 not the exact government but the local Lithuanians. 22:31 Yeah. 22:33 They kind of persecuted people 22:35 because there was a certain law, 22:38 that if you want to have a church congregation, 22:42 you should have at least 15 members. 22:46 So when they kind of put that pressure on to people 22:50 or one or two because of work, because of school, 22:53 because of children and what we can say, 22:58 so the members reduced and once the members reduced, 23:03 they said, "Well, you don't have enough. 23:05 We close the church." Yeah. 23:06 So that happened very often and we know exactly 23:10 by documents that, for example, 23:12 Pastor, he suffered 23:14 because his children were taken away from him 23:17 and put it in children house. 23:18 Really? 23:20 Yeah, we know it is from documents 23:21 and his daughter Maritha is still alive in Siauliai. 23:24 Was this because they wouldn't attend school 23:27 on Sabbath or what was the reason? 23:28 Yeah, it was actually a public court process in Siauliai. 23:33 It was in a big theatre, 23:36 big public event when they publicly said it 23:40 because parents teach, 23:43 you don't go to school on Sabbath, 23:46 you believe today God, Jesus Christ 23:48 and so and soon they pronounced that this sect, 23:52 that the Pastor cannot take care of the children 23:58 because of that situation. 23:59 And so they removed their children. 24:01 Yeah, and that was actually a decision of the court. 24:05 Yeah. 24:06 It is documented, we know it is. 24:08 And how many children did the pastor have? 24:10 He had the two children. 24:12 Two children. Yes. 24:13 And the daughter is still living? 24:15 The daughter is still alive. 24:16 Okay. 24:17 Well, we have another examples also 24:20 because of children didn't wanted 24:24 to go to school on Sabbath, they had to, quite often 24:29 they have to leave the Lithuania 24:33 and for example, you mentioned Sister Zeta, 24:37 she had to leave for many places even in Latvia, 24:42 in Moscow and Russia, Zbigniew Piotrowski 24:45 many, many, many, many places just because uh, 24:50 while she was young, she didn't wanted to go school 24:54 later she went work for the church 24:58 and produce the literature and that was not allowed. 25:01 Yeah. 25:02 That was not allowed and so she had to run. 25:06 She had to leave-- so but when you talk to Zeta, 25:10 she'll say, she says she's grateful for the Lord. 25:14 For that let's say, um, experiences 25:21 that helped her to be grounded into faith, 25:23 to be faithful to be true and- 25:28 It's easy to live for Christ when there's no persecution. 25:33 But it's difficult when you have 25:35 to really stand up to governmental authorities. 25:39 Not just the ridicule of neighbors 25:41 but against the government and for your faith. 25:46 And sometimes we get the idea that, 25:49 well, that's behind this and the persecution is over. 25:52 But there may be a greater, in fact, 25:54 we know from the study of the Bible 25:56 and as far as the prophesy, 25:58 there is even greater persecution ahead. 26:00 Yes. 26:01 And so we must be ready for that 26:03 and secure in out understanding of the gospel 26:09 of the Jesus Christ and trusting in Him 26:12 to bring us through like you have had to do 26:14 and Zeta has to had to do 26:16 and particularly some of the older people 26:19 that lived in this, behind this, 26:21 the iron curtain, had to do. 26:25 Well, that it was a unbelievable 26:28 difficult time you know, with the Soviets. 26:31 When that began to change? 26:37 Do you see a real, immediate difference? 26:40 Yes, actually, I kind of lived through that changed time. 26:45 You were specialist in that period, right? 26:48 Yes. Yeah. 26:49 Um, yeah, I remember when I was a small child, 26:53 my father took me to the private house 26:57 or a private flat where people meet to worship. 27:02 That was early 80s as much as I can remember. 27:06 And usually it was for a different reason. 27:10 It was not allowed to have a public worship 27:13 but for example, people assemble as somebody's 27:16 as birthday or any other reason. 27:20 So we had on the table, the Bible and some newspapers. 27:24 If there any authorities comes- 27:26 You are talking the paper. 27:28 Yes. 27:29 I remember that time and I also remembered the time 27:32 when it became a little bit easier 27:36 and basically is, we would say was Brezhnev, 27:41 was a little bit easier 27:43 and with Gorbachev was even more easier. 27:46 And of course, when the Wall, during two Germanys parted, 27:52 turned down, that was even more easier. 27:55 I remember being in Ukraine in 1991 27:58 and as we were going down the river, 28:02 on a little boat for little, 28:06 little crews that they took us on, 28:09 one of the pastors pointed out to a spot and he said, 28:13 at this very spot, we used to have our baptisms. 28:17 We would disguise them as a picnic 28:20 and the swimming party and we would be out there 28:23 swimming in bathing suits and then, 28:27 he said, "I would raise my hand over the candidate 28:30 and say a prayer and baptized them 28:33 and then we would continue on as if we were having a party 28:37 and then he said gradually 28:39 one by one would baptize the people. 28:42 So they had to be, they had to be very careful in, 28:47 and they, it was illegal for them 28:49 to do a public baptism. 28:51 Two years prison sentence just almost automatic 28:55 if they were caught baptizing anybody. 28:57 Yes, absolutely. 28:59 I'm sure you heard the same. 29:01 Well, I heard the same from many places 29:04 and quite often the baptism happened during the night. 29:07 Yes. 29:09 During the night and quite often also, 29:11 not in the place where the Pastor lived. 29:13 Right. 29:15 Somewhere else. Somewhere else. 29:16 He visits, for example, a Pastor visiting a friend 29:19 or somebody else and then that's the way it was. 29:23 Right. 29:24 How did you get the Bible during that time? 29:27 Yeah, um, I got the old version of Lithuanian Bible 29:34 and my father got the Bible, 29:37 I actually don't even know exactly 29:39 where he got it from. 29:42 But he brought me at home and we read together with him, 29:46 chapter by chapter in my childhood 29:48 but that was old version and quite difficult to read. 29:52 But still it was understandable. 29:54 So it was understandable and one of the benefits 30:01 exactly when the independence came, 30:04 that we can get the Bible in a easy reading 30:09 in a relevance, in a modern language 30:13 where you can read and understand clearly, 30:15 the meaning. 30:17 Well, actually it is good to mention 30:19 that Pastor Alfred Wallis. 30:24 He actually was in US. 30:28 I believe he was Lutheran pastor 30:31 and he had translated the Bible 30:34 and I think some people from Switzerland and America, 30:41 they collected the money and sent to Lithuania. 30:43 Is that right? 30:44 Yeah, so uh, that's why we got the first Bibles. 30:47 Right. 30:49 Now did you have any of the "Spirit of Prophecy" 30:51 books in Lithuanian? 30:53 Well, the history says to us that before Second World War, 30:58 uh, Adventist Church in Lithuania 31:00 had the publishing house 31:02 and they called it Wallah which means rock. 31:05 So they had to, they published 31:07 but during Soviet time it was basically disappeared. 31:13 You can only get some kind if written on the, 31:16 what do you call it? 31:18 Typing? Typewriter. 31:19 Yes, correct typewriter. 31:20 Only this time when we can got it. 31:22 I have one in my office that was typed in Russian 31:24 and they would type ten copies at a time 31:29 using you know, there with carbon paper 31:33 and they have to hit very hard 31:36 and they did their very best not to make a mistake. 31:39 But they copied books like "Great Controversy," 31:42 "The Desire of Ages." 31:44 "Steps to Christ." "Steps to Christ." 31:46 And then they bound them by hand and they are really, 31:49 the bindings are very good. 31:51 Um, I keep one in my office to remind me 31:55 that it's not always easy to follow Christ. 31:59 And sometimes we think that we are having 32:02 a difficult time when we don't know 32:04 what difficulty really is. 32:07 From those that had to hide behind pillowed closets 32:13 and type those things so no one would hear the typing 32:16 and it was illegal to type, illegal to print, 32:20 illegal to do anything of that nature 32:23 in the Soviet Union. 32:24 And so, and some of those people were caught. 32:28 I know some of them that spent two years in the penitentiary 32:32 because of just typing the word of God. 32:36 One woman, one lady, Lydia, 32:38 who is very fine lady and a very fine musician 32:42 that spent two years for typing the word 32:46 and typing the "Great Controversy." 32:49 Yes. So- 32:51 Also maybe it is good to mention 32:56 also that quite a serious issue 32:59 was with military service, young people 33:03 because the government had the law. 33:08 Every young male, man should spend two or three years 33:13 in the Navy, in the military service. 33:15 Right. 33:16 So if you are Adventist, 33:20 then you say I don't want to serve with the gun, 33:24 I don't want to kill, I don't want to break 33:26 the Ten Commandments and then you had a lot of also, 33:30 difficulties and some persecutions 33:32 and some even sent to Siberia, quite a many people. 33:34 Right. 33:36 A lot of our people went ahead and served. 33:39 They just knew they weren't going to kill anybody 33:42 and I've talked to some of the pastors 33:45 and some of them are lay people who said you know, 33:49 "It was better for us to just to go ahead 33:51 and go in the service," but they said, 33:54 "we knew we were never going to actually kill somebody." 33:58 And they would try to medics 34:00 but you wouldn't automatically become a medic 34:03 just because you didn't want to carry a gun either. 34:05 But as many as they could they became medics. 34:08 Others did not go in at all and went to prison instead. 34:13 It would be a very difficult decision to make 34:19 and I would not judge anybody who made either decision, 34:24 I think that's a very personal decision and very difficult 34:28 and very easy for us to sit back here and say, 34:30 "Well, we should do, what they should do." 34:33 Very difficult to be in that instance 34:36 and to do exactly the right thing. 34:40 Well, those were the difficult days. 34:43 Now after the fall of the Berlin Wall 34:47 and after freedom 34:50 to express your spiritual experience comes, 34:55 what happened in Lithuania? 34:56 Now you have 46 members that roughly when that starts 35:00 and tell us about some of the exciting things 35:03 that have happened to make that growth happen. 35:05 Yes, um, I remember while studying 35:10 at Bethune Academy in Kaunas. 35:13 I remember that um, since there was freedom, 35:19 the first idea was to held the public campaign, 35:24 public evangelism 35:26 and actually the very first public evangelism campaign 35:29 after let's say the beginning of the independence, 35:34 was 1992, performed by lay member from Lithuania. 35:41 So it had to be translated and of course, 35:44 the translator was my father, Helmut Hibner, 35:48 since he, now he is at Latvian, 35:50 so and then another pastors also 35:53 and it was a very nice time. 35:55 Yes. 35:56 A very nice campaign was in Vilnius 35:59 by Don Bryant evangelist from America. 36:03 What's his name? Don Bryant. 36:04 Okay. 36:06 Maybe in somebody knows him. 36:08 Yeah. Very nice. 36:10 It was 158 church members baptized. 36:13 Wow, beautiful. 36:14 Fantastic result. Right. 36:16 Yeah, and then was Ben Lee belt 36:19 also from America. 36:22 It was 88 church members baptized in Kaunas. 36:25 Then 93 came at the time 36:29 I believe Helmut 36:33 and Helmut Tretson and his son. 36:37 I must remember his name. 36:41 The son was at the time, 36:42 Nevada Youth Conference president. 36:46 So they held a very nice campaign 36:48 again it was baptized over 100 members. 36:51 So the work, the mission grew very rapidly 36:57 and then in Klaipeda there was another seminar 37:00 and so it was a kind of many serious uh, 37:05 I also remember Pastor Tucker I think his name was from-- 37:11 He came to Vilnius also had a nice campaign. 37:16 So and there was also a Pastor, another pastor from America, 37:20 I don't remember now his name 37:22 but in Siauliai so that was quite encouraging 37:27 and local church members and church pastors say, 37:30 "Okay, we can also do something. 37:32 Right. 37:33 And they're trained I'm sure. 37:35 Yes. Right. 37:36 Yes, we participated and so how it was done 37:39 and that was a nice time 37:41 and I think very important event happened at Lithuanian, 37:47 Bible society was organized and Adventist Church 37:51 was one of the a kind of establishers, 37:55 founders and then we can get more literature, 37:59 New Testaments, 38:00 Bibles and another should bring paintings. 38:02 So that helped the work to expand. 38:07 I remember myself, my first campaign was in 1995 38:11 so and then we continued to, 38:13 and I had so far five places so and still it is going. 38:19 Not that good, as it was in those times 38:22 but still it works. 38:23 You know, that's one of the things though, 38:25 the people have to understand, 38:27 there are times when people are more receptive 38:30 than the others using the times of difficulty or like 38:34 right after the Wall falls and there is freedom. 38:38 However, if we keep proclaiming the word of God, 38:42 we will find individuals who want to make that decision. 38:48 Yes. 38:49 I recounted this story many, many times but Marian Kidder 38:55 held a meeting in New England 38:59 and in that place, where he held the meeting, 39:05 I think there were very few people baptized 39:07 maybe one but that one was Mark Finley. 39:10 So Mark's ministry has multiplied. 39:14 I was not even counted as a baptism went 39:17 for came and the Lord has given me 39:20 over 15,000 baptisms 39:21 so you'll never know when that person, 39:25 the Lord is going to reach if it's one or two or three. 39:29 You'll never know when the Lord is going to use that one 39:32 to bring in even more than it happens 39:35 so by preaching the message, 39:37 it renews it in our own members' hearts and there is, 39:42 there is growth that comes as a result. 39:45 Sometimes great growth and sometimes slow growth 39:49 but growth in any way you go about it. 39:53 And I know sometimes people say well, 39:55 but sometimes they leave. 39:58 That's true. 39:59 But sometimes they stay too. 40:02 And those that stay make a big difference in God's work. 40:07 And when you look 40:08 at the rise of our church membership, since 1990, 40:15 it is just astronomical growth often because 40:20 we began to really re-emphasize holding public meetings again. 40:25 There are always those that say, 40:27 "Oh, it doesn't work," 40:28 and then this and that and so forth 40:30 but it works better than anything else 40:33 we have ever done. 40:35 And so I urge you 40:37 and I know as a leader I don't need to urge you this 40:40 but I urge you to encourage your people 40:42 to keep holding meetings. 40:44 Yes. 40:45 And I always quote Fordyce Detamore. 40:49 He said, "if you are not succeeding, 40:52 if you are failing, multiply your rate of failure." 40:56 so that if you, he said, 40:58 "if you want to baptize a 100 a year, 41:01 a 100 and you are only baptizing 10, 41:03 and hold 10 campaigns 41:04 so you'll get your hundred." 41:07 So I do believe that the God expects us to keep, 41:12 giving the word, giving them the word. 41:15 Well, some of the, what are some of the plans 41:17 that you have for the future for the work in Lithuania? 41:22 Well, we're really grateful to the Lord Jesus Christ, 41:28 what He has done so far. Oh, yes. 41:31 And I think it would be correct to say 41:35 that today we stand on the shoulders of those 41:37 who laid the foundation. 41:38 Yes. 41:40 They helped us to start to move to see what we can do. 41:47 A lot of help was by literature. 41:51 I even remember some nights' nice stories 41:53 that people read the book like, 41:56 for example, "Great Controversy" 41:59 or of for example prophecy books, 42:02 some kind of, we published 42:05 and they came to the church just by reading the book. 42:08 So one of the important plans for us 42:10 is to continue to distribute the books 42:14 and that's what we need, 42:16 a lot of help for computer's work. 42:19 Another plan I believe, 42:22 since the Lord helped us to not only register the church 42:27 but to get the recognition was the problem. 42:29 That was a quite a big work. 42:32 We have the more freedom now, opportunities, 42:36 we have internet, and we have radio. 42:38 So it's kind of my desire to think about radio programs 42:46 that people can hear more. 42:49 Now we have, we can, 42:51 we are allowed to go to radio and to record. 42:56 But that takes time and some resources. 42:59 So that's my dream, our dream. 43:02 We started already 43:03 some kind of progress in using internet. 43:05 Over internet to record 43:07 but then people watch only internet 43:09 but we would like to have also radio. 43:11 Right. 43:13 And still there are, there are some places in Lithuania 43:16 which are not by Adventist church 43:19 how to say reached. 43:20 Dark County, that we call it here. 43:22 some parts Dark areas. 43:23 Yes, we would like to establish 43:25 Adventist church's presence there. 43:27 So we would say this would be our plans 43:31 but most of us, mostly, above all 43:34 we would like to really pray the Lord to the Lord 43:38 and submit to His guidance, to His will. 43:41 That's the, our desire, 43:44 that to see how the Lord guides us. 43:46 How he opens the door and what He can do. 43:49 I believe to work with young people is very important. 43:53 Well, I do believe with all my heart 43:55 that the Lord is coming soon and I know you do as well 44:00 and we want to do everything we can 44:03 to reach as many people as we can. 44:06 We're not just trying to grow a big church, 44:10 big denomination, we're trying to fill heaven 44:14 with people that love the Lord Jesus Christ 44:17 and who trust in Him for life eternal. 44:20 And you know, the Bible says, 44:22 "You shall know the truth 44:24 and the truth shall set you free." 44:26 The truth is Jesus Christ 44:28 and He has a truth of all of the word 44:32 and that He wants us to present. 44:35 And so we've got a lot of people 44:37 that really still need to hear it 44:40 and I'm sure there are many in Lithuania as well. 44:45 Well, I know that the Lord is going 44:47 to be blessing your work there. 44:49 I believe that with all my heart. 44:52 I urge you to continue holding meetings 44:56 and having your pastors hold meetings, while we can. 45:00 And you mentioned about the registration of the church. 45:03 This has been so important for our people. 45:07 Yes. 45:08 I know that the church, like for in Ukraine 45:12 was registered many, many years before communism came in. 45:16 So and they continued with the registration. 45:20 Now there were some groups that broke away. 45:22 But that registration was so important. 45:24 Yeah. 45:26 I had just gone over it and held 45:27 a big public crusade in, 45:30 as the matter of fact and on my way back, 45:33 I was flying on the plane 45:36 and started talking with the man and found out 45:38 that he was with a Church of Christ group. 45:41 And they were trying to organize something there. 45:44 But they had no church organization. 45:47 So the government would not allow them 45:50 to hold up a meeting. 45:51 Yes. 45:53 And they were having such a difficult time and he said, 45:55 "How in the world do you hold public meetings there?" 45:58 And I said because our leaders had the forethought 46:02 to register the church years before 46:06 and so therefore they were able to really go forth publicly 46:13 and their growth in that part of the world 46:16 has been just astronomical in the former Soviet Union. 46:21 And of course we have our station in there 46:27 in Russia, and seminary in Ziaska, Ziaski, 46:33 I came but our station has been so successful. 46:40 Have you been able to have some contact 46:43 with 3ABN through the television there? 46:48 Well, actually interesting is that 46:49 during General Conference session, 46:52 I met a lady who gave me some information uh, 46:58 what is the possibility so we would love to kind of, 47:04 see what is the possibility to get, to see those times, 47:11 that information that broadcast that comes from Novagraaf. 47:16 Because we have also Russian people living in Lithuania, 47:20 even also Russian people speaking in our church 47:24 and they would love to too and many people in our church, 47:29 among our church members understand Russian language 47:31 because we lived through that time so we know. 47:34 Okay, well, I know that there are many of you 47:37 that are have had connections with Lithuania 47:41 either through birth or having lived there 47:43 or other parts of the Soviet block 47:45 and just some of you that just are touched by the Holy Spirit. 47:49 If you'd like to get in touch with the Lithuanian conference 47:53 and with Pastor Hibner, this is how you can do it. 48:00 If you would like to contact Bertold, 48:02 then you can write to Bertold Hibner, 48:04 Pasiles 122, Kaunas, LT-51032, Lithuania. 48:11 That's Bertold Hibner, Pasiles 122, 48:15 Kaunas, LT-51032, Lithuania. 48:19 You can call +37065591416. 48:26 That's +37065591416 48:31 or visit them online at adventistai.it. 48:36 That's adventistai.it. 48:40 Contact him today. He'd love to hear from you. 48:45 Well, listen now you be sure to get in touch 48:48 with the Lithuanian Conference 48:50 and now let's listen again to Darrell Marshall 48:54 singing one of my favorite songs, 48:56 "Who Am I." 49:14 When I think of how He came 49:20 Far from glory 49:27 He came and dwelt among the lowly 49:35 Such as I 49:41 To suffer shame and such disgrace 49:48 On Mount Calvary take my place 49:56 Then I ask myself this question 50:03 Who am I? 50:09 Who am I 50:14 that The King would bleed and die for 50:23 Who am I that He would pray 50:30 Not my will, but Thine for 50:37 The answer I may never know 50:43 Why He ever loved me so 50:51 But to that old rugged cross He would go 50:58 For who am I? 51:06 When I'm reminded of His these precious words Jesus said 51:13 I'll leave thee never 51:18 He said If you'll be true 51:22 I'll give to you life forever 51:32 I don't know what I could have done 51:39 To deserve God's only Son 51:46 He'll fight all of my battles until they're won 51:53 For who am I? 52:00 Who am I 52:05 that The King would bleed and die for 52:14 Who am I that He would pray 52:21 Not my will, but Thine for 52:28 The answer I may never know 52:35 Why He ever loved me so 52:42 That to an old rugged cross He would go 52:50 To an old rugged cross He would go 52:57 To an old rugged cross He would go 53:03 For who am I? 53:06 Who am I 53:09 Who am I |
Revised 2015-08-13