I want to spend my life
00:00:01.86\00:00:05.13
Spend my life
00:00:05.17\00:00:07.54
Mending broken people
00:00:07.57\00:00:12.51
I want to spend my life
00:00:12.54\00:00:18.61
Removing pain
00:00:18.65\00:00:23.89
Lord, let my words
00:00:23.92\00:00:27.39
Let my words
00:00:27.42\00:00:30.06
Heal a heart that hurts
00:00:30.09\00:00:34.46
I want to spend my life
00:00:34.50\00:00:40.30
Mending broken people
00:00:40.34\00:00:45.97
I want to spend my life
00:00:46.01\00:00:51.28
Mending broken people.
00:00:51.31\00:00:55.18
Well, welcome.
00:01:07.33\00:01:08.66
We are so happy that
you could join us today
00:01:08.70\00:01:10.63
and we have a
very interesting talk
00:01:10.67\00:01:14.90
and visit that I'm sure
00:01:14.94\00:01:18.01
you are going to be
blessed by being a part of.
00:01:18.04\00:01:21.14
And you have always
blessed 3ABN with your prayers,
00:01:21.18\00:01:25.65
your financial support
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and we thank you
so much for that.
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Without that we
could not be on the air.
00:01:29.48\00:01:32.65
You know, we have recently uh,
00:01:32.69\00:01:36.06
been at the General Conference
but now I'm taping this program
00:01:36.09\00:01:39.23
actually is after
General Conference
00:01:39.26\00:01:41.66
and I became acquainted
with a gentleman there
00:01:41.70\00:01:44.73
and we have invited him to come
and to do a program with us.
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His name is Bertold Hibner
00:01:49.27\00:01:52.61
and we are happy to welcome you.
00:01:52.64\00:01:54.61
Nice to meet you.
00:01:54.64\00:01:55.98
And he is the president
of the Lithuanian Conference
00:01:56.01\00:01:59.45
of the Seventh Day Adventist
and the story of the work
00:01:59.48\00:02:04.02
in Lithuania is
extremely important.
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You know, we are
living in a world
00:02:07.46\00:02:08.79
where there is some persecution,
00:02:08.82\00:02:10.79
uh, the devil is doing
everything he could to stop
00:02:10.83\00:02:13.76
the work and
we're going to listen
00:02:13.80\00:02:16.36
to some of the attempts by Satan
00:02:16.40\00:02:21.00
through the World War II
00:02:21.04\00:02:22.70
and the Nazis and then later
00:02:22.74\00:02:24.31
through the Soviets
to bring about an end
00:02:24.34\00:02:28.81
to Christianity in
countries like Lithuania
00:02:28.84\00:02:32.51
and the others that were in the,
00:02:32.55\00:02:34.38
behind the iron curtain.
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And so today, we are
going to be looking at that
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and how God rescued His work.
00:02:39.32\00:02:42.99
How He has protected His
people and how He has been,
00:02:43.02\00:02:48.30
had His hand over them
and how they have prospered
00:02:48.33\00:02:52.53
even in time of persecution,
which has been severe.
00:02:52.57\00:02:56.07
And so I really hope
that you'd stay with us,
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call your friends
and tell them to join us.
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And now we're going
to enjoy our good friend,
00:03:01.81\00:03:05.45
Darrell Marshall.
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He is going to be presenting
some music that I know,
00:03:07.02\00:03:09.82
you are going to
appreciate and enjoy
00:03:09.85\00:03:12.29
and the song is,
"A Song Was Born."
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A song was born
00:03:28.17\00:03:32.94
when I found Jesus
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And in my heart
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He came to stay
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Now the reason I sing
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Is that He saved me
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A new life He gave me
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Now I walk His way
00:04:01.30\00:04:05.94
Just like the sunrise
00:04:05.97\00:04:10.88
On a springtime morning
00:04:10.91\00:04:15.42
He filled my longing
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In a moment's time
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A song was born and it's melody
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Shall thrill my soul eternally
00:04:34.44\00:04:41.88
A song was born
00:05:03.06\00:05:07.57
When I found my Jesus
00:05:07.60\00:05:12.37
And in my heart
00:05:12.41\00:05:17.41
He came to stay
00:05:17.45\00:05:21.92
Now the reason I sing
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Is that He saved me
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A new life He gave me
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Now I walk His way
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Just like the sunrise
00:05:40.94\00:05:45.84
On a springtime morning
00:05:45.87\00:05:50.55
He filled my longing
00:05:50.58\00:05:55.68
In a moment's time
00:05:55.72\00:05:59.99
A song was born and it's melody
00:06:00.02\00:06:07.03
Shall thrill my soul eternally
00:06:09.40\00:06:16.91
Shall thrill my soul eternally
00:06:18.94\00:06:26.68
Thank you, Darrell.
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We always enjoy
having Darrell come to 3ABN,
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especially to our camp meetings.
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He's just a real
joy to be around.
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Love to hear him sing.
00:06:46.13\00:06:47.47
He has a very amazing voice
00:06:47.50\00:06:49.67
and travels around the
country and many, many churches.
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And singing and
sharing his talent
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that God has given him and
if you'd like to reach him,
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you can always
reach him through 3ABN
00:07:01.22\00:07:04.12
and we'll tell you how
can book him for a concert.
00:07:04.15\00:07:09.09
Well, we welcome
you, Pastor Hibner,
00:07:09.12\00:07:12.03
and we are so happy
that you could be with us
00:07:12.06\00:07:15.03
and I saw you briefly at GC uh,
00:07:15.06\00:07:19.73
and we had heard
from good friends
00:07:19.77\00:07:21.44
that you were
going to be in this area
00:07:21.47\00:07:23.44
and so we were very
happy to have you uh,
00:07:23.47\00:07:26.34
Dickens and Zeta,
they are good friends here
00:07:26.37\00:07:28.58
and volunteered
with 3ABN and so and Zeta
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I think knew you and
Clair back in Lithuania.
00:07:33.35\00:07:36.79
Yes.
00:07:36.82\00:07:38.15
And so she told us
that you would be coming
00:07:38.19\00:07:40.62
and we've invited you to come
00:07:40.66\00:07:42.39
and tell the story of
Lithuania and the work there.
00:07:42.42\00:07:46.43
But first of
all, I'd like to know
00:07:46.46\00:07:48.06
a little bit about your story.
00:07:48.10\00:07:49.56
Tell me uh, about
you, your history,
00:07:49.60\00:07:53.20
where you were
born and so forth.
00:07:53.23\00:07:55.44
Thank you, Pastor
Jim, for invitation.
00:07:55.47\00:07:59.01
I was born in Lithuania in 1968.
00:07:59.04\00:08:03.81
My parents were physicians.
00:08:03.85\00:08:07.82
My father, who is still alive,
00:08:07.85\00:08:11.02
he was a physician
and doctor and my mum,
00:08:11.05\00:08:16.32
she passed away already
and she also was a doctor uh,
00:08:16.36\00:08:20.80
so I grew up in a
home, nice home, happy home
00:08:20.83\00:08:27.34
and for which I'm grateful
to the Lord and my parents.
00:08:27.37\00:08:32.14
So my father is a
Adventist Church member
00:08:32.17\00:08:37.41
and my grandfather
was a church member,
00:08:37.45\00:08:41.25
Adventist and my grandfather's
mother was also an Adventist
00:08:41.28\00:08:46.35
so a kind of generation
00:08:46.39\00:08:48.02
Okay.
00:08:48.06\00:08:49.39
Is a kind of sequence.
00:08:49.42\00:08:50.86
My mummy is an, my
mum was a Roman Catholic.
00:08:50.89\00:08:54.86
So uh, but we had a
very nice and pleasant home
00:08:54.90\00:09:00.64
and when circumstances
00:09:00.67\00:09:02.64
when I can grow and
for which I 'm grateful.
00:09:02.67\00:09:05.07
Right.
00:09:05.11\00:09:06.44
After school, I
went to Kaunas to study
00:09:06.47\00:09:11.51
as Lithuanian doctor
and I finished my university
00:09:11.55\00:09:16.02
but during that
time, the Lord called me
00:09:16.05\00:09:18.59
to minister in the church.
00:09:18.62\00:09:22.76
I became acquainted
00:09:22.79\00:09:24.19
to this Adventist
Church in early childhood.
00:09:24.23\00:09:29.03
I remember my dad
took me at that time,
00:09:29.06\00:09:32.40
during Soviet Union
time, took to the private house
00:09:32.43\00:09:36.67
where the worship happened
in Siauliai or in Kaunas
00:09:36.71\00:09:42.14
because only two places
at that time were available.
00:09:42.18\00:09:45.41
There was only privately.
00:09:45.45\00:09:48.22
So I became acquainted
to this Adventist Church
00:09:48.25\00:09:51.15
and we started
to read the Bible.
00:09:51.19\00:09:53.29
So during my
childhood and my youth time,
00:09:53.32\00:09:56.76
I read the Bible.
00:09:56.79\00:09:58.86
So and I knew about
the Lord Jesus Christ
00:09:58.89\00:10:03.67
and I was interested in
that so when the Lord decided,
00:10:03.70\00:10:07.94
He invited me to
come to the church.
00:10:07.97\00:10:10.47
That was in 1992,
when I was baptized,
00:10:10.51\00:10:15.24
during one of the big campaigns
00:10:15.28\00:10:18.51
and basically
after three months,
00:10:18.55\00:10:21.55
I was invited to
work in the church.
00:10:21.58\00:10:24.05
Okay.
00:10:24.09\00:10:25.42
Well, so that's where
it shouldered over you.
00:10:25.45\00:10:29.42
Yeah, now, you were married.
00:10:29.46\00:10:31.96
Yes, I married to Waima
00:10:31.99\00:10:35.80
and we married in 1993
00:10:35.83\00:10:40.47
and then in 1994 was born
my first, our first child.
00:10:40.50\00:10:46.17
We have four children.
00:10:46.21\00:10:48.54
And my first
child is already grown
00:10:48.58\00:10:51.51
and he's studying
in the university.
00:10:51.55\00:10:55.85
So I begun my
ministry as a deacon
00:10:55.88\00:11:01.92
and then as an Elder
and while working as Elder,
00:11:01.96\00:11:06.66
because at that time,
00:11:06.70\00:11:08.63
in 1992 was only two pastors
throughout the Lithuania.
00:11:08.66\00:11:15.10
So I was kind of volunteering.
00:11:15.14\00:11:18.57
The Mission Field
President at the time,
00:11:18.61\00:11:20.21
Mission Field
President, Daniel--
00:11:20.24\00:11:22.11
He knew me from the childhood,
00:11:22.14\00:11:24.11
so I guess he invited me
that's why to serve in Kaunas
00:11:24.15\00:11:27.95
where no pastor was.
00:11:27.98\00:11:29.32
Just the Pastor
Cumming from other city.
00:11:29.35\00:11:32.42
So he kind of
invited me to be in charge.
00:11:32.45\00:11:35.59
All right.
00:11:35.62\00:11:36.96
And you can
understand as a young person,
00:11:36.99\00:11:39.13
so it wasn't that easy.
00:11:39.16\00:11:41.10
No.
00:11:41.13\00:11:42.46
Well, but thank you to the Lord,
00:11:42.50\00:11:43.83
He guided me and helped me
and thanks to the nice people
00:11:43.87\00:11:48.67
and well, after one
or two years I became uh,
00:11:48.70\00:11:55.48
friends with Sister Zeta,
00:11:55.51\00:11:58.68
she was living in
the Vilnius that time.
00:11:58.71\00:12:01.18
So this older, elderly
people, they helped me.
00:12:01.22\00:12:05.25
Yes.
00:12:05.29\00:12:06.62
So after being a
church elder, in 1994,
00:12:06.65\00:12:11.46
I was ordained as a
Pastor, secretary of treasure,
00:12:11.49\00:12:15.00
then, I worked for three years
00:12:15.03\00:12:17.40
and then I was secretary in 1997
00:12:17.43\00:12:21.27
and in 1999, the
church sent me to study.
00:12:21.30\00:12:25.44
Okay.
00:12:25.47\00:12:26.81
College in Religion
00:12:26.84\00:12:28.18
and that was the
New Birth College in UK.
00:12:28.21\00:12:31.68
United Kingdom.
00:12:31.71\00:12:33.08
So I came back and
in 1992, sorry, in 2002,
00:12:33.11\00:12:37.32
I came back after my studies,
I finished Masters in Religion
00:12:37.35\00:12:41.82
and then the Lord decided me to,
00:12:41.86\00:12:47.50
and people elected
me to be as a president.
00:12:47.53\00:12:50.37
All right. So since 2000.
00:12:50.40\00:12:52.17
So you've been,
2000 and what now?
00:12:52.20\00:12:54.64
In 2003.
00:12:54.67\00:12:56.00
I started and in 2013,
00:12:56.04\00:13:00.24
we became a trained conference.
00:13:00.28\00:13:01.91
Okay, before that
you were a mission.
00:13:01.94\00:13:03.38
Were you? Yes.
00:13:03.41\00:13:04.75
Okay.
00:13:04.78\00:13:06.11
So and in 2013, I was again
00:13:06.15\00:13:07.48
re-elected as a
conference president.
00:13:07.52\00:13:08.85
How many churches are
in that conference now?
00:13:08.88\00:13:11.09
We have 17.
00:13:11.12\00:13:12.45
17?
00:13:12.49\00:13:13.82
Churches throughout.
From two now to seventeen.
00:13:13.86\00:13:15.66
Yes, two small
churches. We would say.
00:13:15.69\00:13:18.36
In 1992, in
throughout the Lithuania
00:13:18.39\00:13:21.56
we had 46 members.
00:13:21.60\00:13:23.30
Oh, wow.
00:13:23.33\00:13:24.73
So the Lord made a
marvelous job I would say.
00:13:24.77\00:13:28.14
Yes. We have grown-
00:13:28.17\00:13:29.67
So how many members now?
00:13:29.70\00:13:31.24
We have now 874.
00:13:31.27\00:13:33.98
From 46 to 874.
00:13:34.01\00:13:36.48
We have been even in up to 1246.
00:13:36.51\00:13:41.25
You had a lot of
people that emigrated there,
00:13:41.28\00:13:44.05
from there to Israel and
other places, haven't you?
00:13:44.09\00:13:47.39
Yes, as you said in
Israel, and also United Kingdom,
00:13:47.42\00:13:52.39
Germany and some America.
00:13:52.43\00:13:55.00
So where they have
some kind of relatives.
00:13:55.03\00:13:58.30
And that's where
you had your loss,
00:13:58.33\00:14:01.10
as they moved to other places.
00:14:01.14\00:14:02.47
Yes.
00:14:02.50\00:14:03.84
Yeah, well,
that's fantastic though,
00:14:03.87\00:14:05.64
when you consider 46 members
00:14:05.67\00:14:08.44
to nearly around a
thousand ball apart.
00:14:08.48\00:14:12.15
Uh, that's 20 times its
growth in that period of time.
00:14:12.18\00:14:18.09
Praise the Lord.
00:14:18.12\00:14:19.45
That is a tremendous growth.
00:14:19.49\00:14:21.26
It really is.
Well, that's exciting.
00:14:21.29\00:14:23.63
Now, the history though
of the work in Lithuania
00:14:23.66\00:14:27.53
has not always been so positive.
00:14:27.56\00:14:29.56
You had some real struggles.
00:14:29.60\00:14:31.43
When did the work
actually start there?
00:14:31.47\00:14:34.67
If we look to the
historical documents,
00:14:34.70\00:14:37.61
uh, the historical documents say
00:14:37.64\00:14:40.34
that the first Adventist Church
member was baptized in 1901.
00:14:40.38\00:14:46.82
That's the first baptism.
00:14:46.85\00:14:48.18
1901? Yes.
00:14:48.22\00:14:49.78
But the church established,
kind of congregation,
00:14:49.82\00:14:53.02
first congregation
established was in 1918.
00:14:53.05\00:14:56.66
1918. All right.
00:14:56.69\00:14:58.03
That's the small town Zagare.
00:14:58.06\00:14:59.83
How, are they
registered at the time
00:14:59.86\00:15:01.56
or just they started the church?
00:15:01.60\00:15:03.23
Just started the
church uh, as you mentioned
00:15:03.26\00:15:07.40
it very important
event was in 1927,
00:15:07.44\00:15:12.87
when the Lithuanian
government kind of registered
00:15:12.91\00:15:16.85
and recognized the
Lithuanian Mission Field.
00:15:16.88\00:15:20.42
Lithuanian Mission Field
Will actually started was,
00:15:20.45\00:15:23.59
actually started in 1921.
00:15:23.62\00:15:28.12
That time Eastern
German Union President,
00:15:28.16\00:15:33.86
Shugart, he started the
job and he kind of empowered it
00:15:33.90\00:15:39.47
and asked Pastor
Edward Angelides.
00:15:39.50\00:15:43.07
It was Edward Angelides.
00:15:43.10\00:15:44.91
And he started the
job because Lithuania
00:15:44.94\00:15:48.58
was a little bit say, not say
divided but was in two parts,
00:15:48.61\00:15:54.12
small
Lithuanian, big Lithuanian.
00:15:54.15\00:15:55.88
Now let me go back to
1901, the first baptism.
00:15:55.92\00:16:00.46
Now they don't
baptize themselves.
00:16:00.49\00:16:03.32
How did they come
to accept the message
00:16:03.36\00:16:05.79
and who baptized that person?
00:16:05.83\00:16:07.56
So according to documents,
00:16:07.60\00:16:09.13
we believe that
was a Pastor Angelides.
00:16:09.16\00:16:12.17
So he was a...
00:16:12.20\00:16:13.70
Is he from Germany?
00:16:13.74\00:16:15.07
We believe he was from Germany.
00:16:15.10\00:16:16.44
Okay.
00:16:16.47\00:16:17.81
Because the first member
00:16:17.84\00:16:19.37
was baptized near Klaipeda City,
00:16:19.41\00:16:22.68
which at the time was
called Memel from Germany.
00:16:22.71\00:16:24.81
Okay, so did you--
Evangelistic meeting
00:16:24.85\00:16:27.72
or Bible studies
or what happened?
00:16:27.75\00:16:29.25
We believe that
was a Bible studies.
00:16:29.28\00:16:30.62
Bible studies.
00:16:30.65\00:16:31.99
Just the private Bible
studies when he worked.
00:16:32.02\00:16:34.06
Well, we move on
beyond the beginning of it.
00:16:34.09\00:16:36.62
Now we got a little background.
00:16:36.66\00:16:37.99
Let's go to World War
II and the challenges,
00:16:38.03\00:16:41.16
'cause your church
was growing a little bit
00:16:41.20\00:16:43.43
before World War II, and then
what happened in World War 2?
00:16:43.47\00:16:48.07
Well, the document say as
that, before the World War II,
00:16:48.10\00:16:53.71
we had about 500 members ready.
00:16:53.74\00:16:58.31
And as we mentioned it
was a little Mission Field,
00:16:58.35\00:17:00.98
it was recognized by
Lithuanian government,
00:17:01.02\00:17:03.32
but during World War 2,
there was some difficulties
00:17:03.35\00:17:09.99
during the war and
towards the end of the wars
00:17:10.03\00:17:14.10
some people who were, we
believe German background,
00:17:14.13\00:17:19.63
went away from Lithuania.
00:17:19.67\00:17:21.47
They left probably to
Germany or other countries.
00:17:21.50\00:17:25.11
So we lost
quite a lot of members
00:17:25.14\00:17:27.58
and of course during the
War also were some difficulties
00:17:27.61\00:17:35.48
because church members
do not want to go to the War
00:17:35.52\00:17:39.79
or participate, use the gun or,
00:17:39.82\00:17:43.63
and that gave quite
a lot of difficulties.
00:17:43.66\00:17:46.19
Because they were forced to
be a part of the Nazi regime,
00:17:46.23\00:17:49.76
in the sense or become
a part of the German army.
00:17:49.80\00:17:52.83
Yes, so and of course,
they didn't want to do that.
00:17:52.87\00:17:56.10
Right.
00:17:56.14\00:17:57.47
So, they had to kind
of go through the uh,
00:17:57.51\00:18:02.64
let's say process when
they could have persecuted
00:18:02.68\00:18:05.68
or asked to do what
they don't want to do.
00:18:05.71\00:18:11.05
So basically they had to suffer.
00:18:11.09\00:18:14.76
There are some documents
00:18:14.79\00:18:16.12
that some of them
really suffered severe.
00:18:16.16\00:18:17.99
Oh, yeah.
00:18:18.03\00:18:19.36
Now the War is over
00:18:19.39\00:18:21.03
and I'm sure the people thought,
00:18:21.06\00:18:22.96
oh, this is wonderful now,
this is going to bring freedom
00:18:23.00\00:18:26.97
and then the
Nazis have been defeated
00:18:27.00\00:18:29.40
and all of this and
then all of that church,
00:18:29.44\00:18:33.31
it was divided and
given to the Nazis,
00:18:33.34\00:18:35.84
to the Soviets, excuse me
00:18:35.88\00:18:37.58
and it, because
part of the Soviet Union
00:18:37.61\00:18:40.78
and that became
even worst, didn't it?
00:18:40.82\00:18:44.69
Yes, as you say uh,
we had a church building
00:18:44.72\00:18:52.39
but we got a church
building in 1946, 47
00:18:52.43\00:18:57.83
and quite soon
it was taken away.
00:18:57.87\00:19:00.04
Yeah.
00:19:00.07\00:19:01.40
As we call it that
word, nationalized.
00:19:01.44\00:19:04.51
I don't know whether
it is correct in English.
00:19:04.54\00:19:06.71
Right, the same thing here.
00:19:06.74\00:19:08.14
Yes, but that's
what it they call it
00:19:08.18\00:19:10.85
and it was very sad.
00:19:10.88\00:19:12.88
Yes.
00:19:12.91\00:19:14.25
It was very sad
because uh, we know a Pastor,
00:19:14.28\00:19:19.79
Edwardus--
00:19:19.82\00:19:22.96
So during Soviet Union
time he had to had a permission,
00:19:22.99\00:19:27.56
a special document
from the government
00:19:27.60\00:19:30.30
that he can
perform a minister's duty.
00:19:30.33\00:19:33.40
But only in the city he lived.
00:19:33.44\00:19:36.91
For example, if
he lives in Kaunas,
00:19:36.94\00:19:39.21
so in Kaunas you can
visit the church members.
00:19:39.24\00:19:41.31
You are not allowed to visit
00:19:41.34\00:19:42.68
the church member
outside the Kaunas.
00:19:42.71\00:19:44.91
That was a kind of
very strict regulations
00:19:44.95\00:19:48.12
and also Pastor--Siauliai.
00:19:48.15\00:19:50.59
So we had a church building.
00:19:50.62\00:19:53.66
The Adventist
Church helped us to buy
00:19:53.69\00:19:55.96
but it was taken away and
actually never given back.
00:19:55.99\00:20:00.43
For the reason that,
00:20:00.46\00:20:03.10
now it belongs to
the educational system
00:20:03.13\00:20:05.30
because they were libraries.
00:20:05.33\00:20:07.37
So the government
ruled that, that is not-
00:20:07.40\00:20:12.01
Did they give you
compensation later
00:20:12.04\00:20:14.71
and perhaps other
properties in place of that?
00:20:14.74\00:20:18.48
or at some parts
of the Soviet Union
00:20:18.51\00:20:20.48
they did that where they
had taken away the properties
00:20:20.52\00:20:24.22
and then after the
communist regime fell in 1991,
00:20:24.25\00:20:30.09
they, over a period of
time in some communities,
00:20:30.13\00:20:34.20
they said, "Well, we
can't give you that back
00:20:34.23\00:20:36.80
because it's
been used as a library
00:20:36.83\00:20:38.90
or it's been used as
some type of a public building
00:20:38.93\00:20:43.81
but we will give you
another piece of property
00:20:43.84\00:20:46.57
or something in its place."
00:20:46.61\00:20:47.98
Did they do any
compensation of that kind
00:20:48.01\00:20:50.35
for you in Lithuania?
00:20:50.38\00:20:52.45
Uh, you know,
00:20:52.48\00:20:53.82
it's a bit difficult
to clearly define that
00:20:53.85\00:20:57.39
because the
documentation say that
00:20:57.42\00:21:02.89
it is actual
Nazi in place of that.
00:21:02.92\00:21:06.49
There is no document of this.
00:21:06.53\00:21:08.43
But there is a document
that Pastor got the flat.
00:21:08.46\00:21:12.13
However, it is not
clear, documentally,
00:21:12.17\00:21:15.47
why he got a flat.
00:21:15.50\00:21:16.91
Is it as a compensation
00:21:16.94\00:21:18.37
or because he just
need it as a place to live.
00:21:18.41\00:21:21.94
So it's a kind of bit difficult
to very clearly draw the line.
00:21:21.98\00:21:27.25
Right, okay, that
flat though will go
00:21:27.28\00:21:30.22
on to the church
more than the individual?
00:21:30.25\00:21:33.22
Uh, the flat he,
the Pastor got after,
00:21:33.25\00:21:38.09
belong to the
individual, not to the church.
00:21:38.13\00:21:41.63
Okay, well, it's
definitely was a real set back
00:21:41.66\00:21:47.14
to God's work under
the Soviet influence
00:21:47.17\00:21:51.04
and through out
that whole region,
00:21:51.07\00:21:53.34
I know I've spent a lot
of time Ukraine and Russia
00:21:53.38\00:21:56.51
and it has been amazing
00:21:56.54\00:22:00.38
how the church could even
survive under the persecution
00:22:00.42\00:22:05.75
that they suffered
during those years and I know,
00:22:05.79\00:22:09.76
there's no, that's
certainly true in Lithuania
00:22:09.79\00:22:12.39
because you went from
around 500 members down
00:22:12.43\00:22:15.26
to like 46 members.
00:22:15.30\00:22:17.83
Instead of
increasing you decreased
00:22:17.87\00:22:20.94
during that period of time.
00:22:20.97\00:22:22.87
Uh, mostly because
um, uh, the government,
00:22:22.90\00:22:29.98
not the exact government
but the local Lithuanians.
00:22:30.01\00:22:31.75
Yeah.
00:22:31.78\00:22:33.21
They kind of persecuted people
00:22:33.25\00:22:35.82
because there was a certain law,
00:22:35.85\00:22:38.05
that if you want to
have a church congregation,
00:22:38.09\00:22:42.19
you should have
at least 15 members.
00:22:42.22\00:22:46.16
So when they kind of put
that pressure on to people
00:22:46.19\00:22:50.07
or one or two because
of work, because of school,
00:22:50.10\00:22:53.94
because of children
and what we can say,
00:22:53.97\00:22:58.87
so the members reduced
and once the members reduced,
00:22:58.91\00:23:03.14
they said, "Well,
you don't have enough.
00:23:03.18\00:23:05.21
We close the church." Yeah.
00:23:05.25\00:23:06.88
So that happened very
often and we know exactly
00:23:06.92\00:23:10.75
by documents that, for example,
00:23:10.79\00:23:12.92
Pastor, he suffered
00:23:12.95\00:23:14.56
because his children
were taken away from him
00:23:14.59\00:23:17.39
and put it in children house.
00:23:17.43\00:23:18.76
Really?
00:23:18.79\00:23:20.13
Yeah, we know it
is from documents
00:23:20.16\00:23:21.50
and his daughter Maritha
is still alive in Siauliai.
00:23:21.53\00:23:24.17
Was this because they
wouldn't attend school
00:23:24.20\00:23:27.07
on Sabbath or
what was the reason?
00:23:27.10\00:23:28.84
Yeah, it was actually a public
court process in Siauliai.
00:23:28.87\00:23:33.78
It was in a big theatre,
00:23:33.81\00:23:36.88
big public event
when they publicly said it
00:23:36.91\00:23:40.52
because parents teach,
00:23:40.55\00:23:43.79
you don't go to
school on Sabbath,
00:23:43.82\00:23:45.99
you believe
today God, Jesus Christ
00:23:46.02\00:23:48.72
and so and soon they
pronounced that this sect,
00:23:48.76\00:23:52.96
that the Pastor cannot
take care of the children
00:23:52.99\00:23:58.43
because of that situation.
00:23:58.47\00:23:59.90
And so they
removed their children.
00:23:59.93\00:24:01.27
Yeah, and that was actually
a decision of the court.
00:24:01.30\00:24:05.57
Yeah.
00:24:05.61\00:24:06.94
It is documented, we know it is.
00:24:06.98\00:24:08.74
And how many
children did the pastor have?
00:24:08.78\00:24:10.75
He had the two children.
00:24:10.78\00:24:12.25
Two children. Yes.
00:24:12.28\00:24:13.62
And the
daughter is still living?
00:24:13.65\00:24:14.98
The daughter is still alive.
00:24:15.02\00:24:16.35
Okay.
00:24:16.38\00:24:17.72
Well, we have
another examples also
00:24:17.75\00:24:20.29
because of
children didn't wanted
00:24:20.32\00:24:24.33
to go to school on Sabbath,
they had to, quite often
00:24:24.36\00:24:29.83
they have to leave the Lithuania
00:24:29.86\00:24:33.17
and for example, you
mentioned Sister Zeta,
00:24:33.20\00:24:37.01
she had to leave for
many places even in Latvia,
00:24:37.04\00:24:42.04
in Moscow and
Russia, Zbigniew Piotrowski
00:24:42.08\00:24:45.05
many, many, many, many
places just because uh,
00:24:45.08\00:24:50.49
while she was young, she
didn't wanted to go school
00:24:50.52\00:24:54.19
later she went
work for the church
00:24:54.22\00:24:58.16
and produce the literature
and that was not allowed.
00:24:58.19\00:25:01.36
Yeah.
00:25:01.40\00:25:02.73
That was not allowed
and so she had to run.
00:25:02.76\00:25:06.43
She had to leave-- so
but when you talk to Zeta,
00:25:06.47\00:25:10.34
she'll say, she says
she's grateful for the Lord.
00:25:10.37\00:25:14.78
For that let's
say, um, experiences
00:25:14.81\00:25:20.98
that helped her to
be grounded into faith,
00:25:21.02\00:25:23.79
to be faithful to be true and-
00:25:23.82\00:25:28.62
It's easy to live for Christ
when there's no persecution.
00:25:28.66\00:25:32.99
But it's difficult when you have
00:25:33.03\00:25:35.10
to really stand up to
governmental authorities.
00:25:35.13\00:25:39.43
Not just the
ridicule of neighbors
00:25:39.47\00:25:41.84
but against the
government and for your faith.
00:25:41.87\00:25:46.07
And sometimes we
get the idea that,
00:25:46.11\00:25:49.08
well, that's behind this
and the persecution is over.
00:25:49.11\00:25:52.11
But there may be
a greater, in fact,
00:25:52.15\00:25:54.58
we know from the
study of the Bible
00:25:54.62\00:25:56.72
and as far as the prophesy,
00:25:56.75\00:25:58.09
there is even
greater persecution ahead.
00:25:58.12\00:26:00.22
Yes.
00:26:00.26\00:26:01.59
And so we must be ready for that
00:26:01.62\00:26:03.93
and secure in out
understanding of the gospel
00:26:03.96\00:26:09.43
of the Jesus
Christ and trusting in Him
00:26:09.46\00:26:12.93
to bring us through
like you have had to do
00:26:12.97\00:26:14.87
and Zeta has to had to do
00:26:14.90\00:26:16.71
and particularly
some of the older people
00:26:16.74\00:26:19.04
that lived in this, behind this,
00:26:19.07\00:26:21.94
the iron curtain, had to do.
00:26:21.98\00:26:25.38
Well, that it was a unbelievable
00:26:25.41\00:26:28.15
difficult time you
know, with the Soviets.
00:26:28.18\00:26:31.69
When that began to change?
00:26:31.72\00:26:37.96
Do you see a real,
immediate difference?
00:26:37.99\00:26:40.73
Yes, actually, I kind of
lived through that changed time.
00:26:40.76\00:26:45.57
You were specialist
in that period, right?
00:26:45.60\00:26:48.04
Yes. Yeah.
00:26:48.07\00:26:49.40
Um, yeah, I remember
when I was a small child,
00:26:49.44\00:26:53.88
my father took me
to the private house
00:26:53.91\00:26:57.88
or a private flat
where people meet to worship.
00:26:57.91\00:27:01.98
That was early 80s as
much as I can remember.
00:27:02.02\00:27:06.65
And usually it was
for a different reason.
00:27:06.69\00:27:10.96
It was not allowed
to have a public worship
00:27:10.99\00:27:13.50
but for example,
people assemble as somebody's
00:27:13.53\00:27:16.63
as birthday or any other reason.
00:27:16.67\00:27:20.00
So we had on the table,
the Bible and some newspapers.
00:27:20.04\00:27:24.57
If there any authorities comes-
00:27:24.61\00:27:26.88
You are talking the paper.
00:27:26.91\00:27:28.24
Yes.
00:27:28.28\00:27:29.68
I remember that time and
I also remembered the time
00:27:29.71\00:27:32.81
when it became a
little bit easier
00:27:32.85\00:27:36.02
and basically is, we
would say was Brezhnev,
00:27:36.05\00:27:41.96
was a little bit easier
00:27:41.99\00:27:43.46
and with Gorbachev
was even more easier.
00:27:43.49\00:27:46.59
And of course, when the Wall,
during two Germanys parted,
00:27:46.63\00:27:52.60
turned down, that
was even more easier.
00:27:52.63\00:27:55.34
I remember being
in Ukraine in 1991
00:27:55.37\00:27:58.54
and as we were
going down the river,
00:27:58.57\00:28:02.74
on a little boat for little,
00:28:02.78\00:28:06.51
little crews
that they took us on,
00:28:06.55\00:28:09.15
one of the pastors pointed
out to a spot and he said,
00:28:09.18\00:28:13.46
at this very spot, we
used to have our baptisms.
00:28:13.49\00:28:17.76
We would
disguise them as a picnic
00:28:17.79\00:28:20.63
and the swimming party
and we would be out there
00:28:20.66\00:28:23.87
swimming in
bathing suits and then,
00:28:23.90\00:28:27.10
he said, "I would raise
my hand over the candidate
00:28:27.14\00:28:30.64
and say a prayer
and baptized them
00:28:30.67\00:28:33.88
and then we would continue
on as if we were having a party
00:28:33.91\00:28:37.41
and then he said gradually
00:28:37.45\00:28:39.45
one by one would
baptize the people.
00:28:39.48\00:28:42.08
So they had to be, they
had to be very careful in,
00:28:42.12\00:28:47.72
and they, it
was illegal for them
00:28:47.76\00:28:49.52
to do a public baptism.
00:28:49.56\00:28:50.99
Two years prison
sentence just almost automatic
00:28:51.03\00:28:55.16
if they were
caught baptizing anybody.
00:28:55.20\00:28:57.63
Yes, absolutely.
00:28:57.67\00:28:59.57
I'm sure you heard the same.
00:28:59.60\00:29:01.47
Well, I heard the
same from many places
00:29:01.50\00:29:04.57
and quite often the baptism
happened during the night.
00:29:04.61\00:29:07.54
Yes.
00:29:07.58\00:29:09.14
During the night
and quite often also,
00:29:09.18\00:29:11.15
not in the place
where the Pastor lived.
00:29:11.18\00:29:13.88
Right.
00:29:13.92\00:29:15.25
Somewhere else. Somewhere else.
00:29:15.28\00:29:16.62
He visits, for example,
a Pastor visiting a friend
00:29:16.65\00:29:19.29
or somebody else and
then that's the way it was.
00:29:19.32\00:29:23.06
Right.
00:29:23.09\00:29:24.43
How did you get the
Bible during that time?
00:29:24.46\00:29:27.13
Yeah, um, I got the old
version of Lithuanian Bible
00:29:27.16\00:29:34.50
and my father got the Bible,
00:29:34.54\00:29:37.27
I actually don't
even know exactly
00:29:37.31\00:29:39.21
where he got it from.
00:29:39.24\00:29:42.01
But he brought me at home
and we read together with him,
00:29:42.04\00:29:46.61
chapter by
chapter in my childhood
00:29:46.65\00:29:48.82
but that was old version
and quite difficult to read.
00:29:48.85\00:29:52.15
But still it was understandable.
00:29:52.19\00:29:54.56
So it was understandable
and one of the benefits
00:29:54.59\00:30:01.86
exactly when the
independence came,
00:30:01.90\00:30:04.60
that we can get the
Bible in a easy reading
00:30:04.63\00:30:09.20
in a relevance,
in a modern language
00:30:09.24\00:30:13.68
where you can read
and understand clearly,
00:30:13.71\00:30:15.81
the meaning.
00:30:15.84\00:30:17.18
Well, actually it
is good to mention
00:30:17.21\00:30:19.58
that Pastor Alfred Wallis.
00:30:19.61\00:30:24.69
He actually was in US.
00:30:24.72\00:30:28.12
I believe he was Lutheran pastor
00:30:28.16\00:30:31.23
and he had translated the Bible
00:30:31.26\00:30:34.10
and I think some people
from Switzerland and America,
00:30:34.13\00:30:41.47
they collected the
money and sent to Lithuania.
00:30:41.50\00:30:43.54
Is that right?
00:30:43.57\00:30:44.91
Yeah, so uh, that's why
we got the first Bibles.
00:30:44.94\00:30:47.71
Right.
00:30:47.74\00:30:49.08
Now did you have any of
the "Spirit of Prophecy"
00:30:49.11\00:30:51.25
books in Lithuanian?
00:30:51.28\00:30:53.55
Well, the history says to us
that before Second World War,
00:30:53.58\00:30:58.59
uh, Adventist
Church in Lithuania
00:30:58.62\00:31:00.79
had the publishing house
00:31:00.82\00:31:02.62
and they called it
Wallah which means rock.
00:31:02.66\00:31:05.39
So they had to, they published
00:31:05.43\00:31:07.93
but during Soviet time it
was basically disappeared.
00:31:07.96\00:31:13.40
You can only get some
kind if written on the,
00:31:13.44\00:31:16.67
what do you call it?
00:31:16.71\00:31:18.04
Typing? Typewriter.
00:31:18.07\00:31:19.41
Yes, correct typewriter.
00:31:19.44\00:31:20.78
Only this time
when we can got it.
00:31:20.81\00:31:22.14
I have one in my office
that was typed in Russian
00:31:22.18\00:31:24.91
and they would type
ten copies at a time
00:31:24.95\00:31:29.82
using you know,
there with carbon paper
00:31:29.85\00:31:33.39
and they have to hit very hard
00:31:33.42\00:31:36.32
and they did their very
best not to make a mistake.
00:31:36.36\00:31:39.83
But they copied books
like "Great Controversy,"
00:31:39.86\00:31:42.93
"The Desire of Ages."
00:31:42.96\00:31:44.30
"Steps to
Christ." "Steps to Christ."
00:31:44.33\00:31:46.43
And then they bound them
by hand and they are really,
00:31:46.47\00:31:49.24
the bindings are very good.
00:31:49.27\00:31:50.97
Um, I keep one in
my office to remind me
00:31:51.01\00:31:55.84
that it's not always
easy to follow Christ.
00:31:55.88\00:31:59.91
And sometimes we
think that we are having
00:31:59.95\00:32:02.32
a difficult time
when we don't know
00:32:02.35\00:32:04.85
what difficulty really is.
00:32:04.89\00:32:07.39
From those that had to
hide behind pillowed closets
00:32:07.42\00:32:13.33
and type those things so
no one would hear the typing
00:32:13.36\00:32:16.83
and it was illegal to
type, illegal to print,
00:32:16.87\00:32:20.37
illegal to do
anything of that nature
00:32:20.40\00:32:23.17
in the Soviet Union.
00:32:23.20\00:32:24.54
And so, and some of
those people were caught.
00:32:24.57\00:32:28.04
I know some of them that spent
two years in the penitentiary
00:32:28.08\00:32:32.48
because of just
typing the word of God.
00:32:32.51\00:32:36.79
One woman, one lady, Lydia,
00:32:36.82\00:32:38.95
who is very fine lady
and a very fine musician
00:32:38.99\00:32:42.22
that spent two
years for typing the word
00:32:42.26\00:32:46.70
and typing the
"Great Controversy."
00:32:46.73\00:32:49.83
Yes. So-
00:32:49.86\00:32:51.83
Also maybe it is good to mention
00:32:51.87\00:32:56.17
also that quite a serious issue
00:32:56.20\00:32:59.07
was with military
service, young people
00:32:59.11\00:33:03.31
because the
government had the law.
00:33:03.35\00:33:08.32
Every young male, man
should spend two or three years
00:33:08.35\00:33:13.15
in the Navy, in
the military service.
00:33:13.19\00:33:15.42
Right.
00:33:15.46\00:33:16.79
So if you are Adventist,
00:33:16.83\00:33:20.46
then you say I don't
want to serve with the gun,
00:33:20.50\00:33:24.20
I don't want to
kill, I don't want to break
00:33:24.23\00:33:26.03
the Ten Commandments and
then you had a lot of also,
00:33:26.07\00:33:30.14
difficulties and
some persecutions
00:33:30.17\00:33:32.07
and some even sent to
Siberia, quite a many people.
00:33:32.11\00:33:34.88
Right.
00:33:34.91\00:33:36.85
A lot of our people
went ahead and served.
00:33:36.88\00:33:39.81
They just knew they
weren't going to kill anybody
00:33:39.85\00:33:42.65
and I've talked to
some of the pastors
00:33:42.68\00:33:45.69
and some of them are lay
people who said you know,
00:33:45.72\00:33:49.56
"It was better for
us to just to go ahead
00:33:49.59\00:33:51.66
and go in the
service," but they said,
00:33:51.69\00:33:53.96
"we knew we were never going
to actually kill somebody."
00:33:54.00\00:33:58.13
And they would try to medics
00:33:58.17\00:34:00.57
but you wouldn't
automatically become a medic
00:34:00.60\00:34:02.97
just because you didn't
want to carry a gun either.
00:34:03.00\00:34:05.71
But as many as they
could they became medics.
00:34:05.74\00:34:08.64
Others did not go in at
all and went to prison instead.
00:34:08.68\00:34:13.75
It would be a very
difficult decision to make
00:34:13.78\00:34:19.62
and I would not judge anybody
who made either decision,
00:34:19.65\00:34:24.16
I think that's a very personal
decision and very difficult
00:34:24.19\00:34:28.26
and very easy for us
to sit back here and say,
00:34:28.30\00:34:30.50
"Well, we should do,
what they should do."
00:34:30.53\00:34:33.70
Very difficult to
be in that instance
00:34:33.74\00:34:36.60
and to do
exactly the right thing.
00:34:36.64\00:34:40.21
Well, those were
the difficult days.
00:34:40.24\00:34:43.04
Now after the
fall of the Berlin Wall
00:34:43.08\00:34:47.62
and after freedom
00:34:47.65\00:34:50.49
to express your
spiritual experience comes,
00:34:50.52\00:34:55.36
what happened in Lithuania?
00:34:55.39\00:34:56.93
Now you have 46 members
that roughly when that starts
00:34:56.96\00:35:00.16
and tell us about
some of the exciting things
00:35:00.20\00:35:03.06
that have happened to
make that growth happen.
00:35:03.10\00:35:05.33
Yes, um, I
remember while studying
00:35:05.37\00:35:10.21
at Bethune Academy in Kaunas.
00:35:10.24\00:35:13.07
I remember that um,
since there was freedom,
00:35:13.11\00:35:19.11
the first idea was to
held the public campaign,
00:35:19.15\00:35:24.09
public evangelism
00:35:24.12\00:35:25.99
and actually the very
first public evangelism campaign
00:35:26.02\00:35:29.66
after let's say the
beginning of the independence,
00:35:29.69\00:35:34.56
was 1992, performed by
lay member from Lithuania.
00:35:34.60\00:35:41.30
So it had to be
translated and of course,
00:35:41.34\00:35:44.44
the translator was my
father, Helmut Hibner,
00:35:44.47\00:35:47.98
since he, now he is at Latvian,
00:35:48.01\00:35:50.35
so and then another pastors also
00:35:50.38\00:35:53.11
and it was a very nice time.
00:35:53.15\00:35:55.02
Yes.
00:35:55.05\00:35:56.38
A very nice
campaign was in Vilnius
00:35:56.42\00:35:59.79
by Don Bryant
evangelist from America.
00:35:59.82\00:36:03.02
What's his name? Don Bryant.
00:36:03.06\00:36:04.89
Okay.
00:36:04.93\00:36:06.83
Maybe in somebody knows him.
00:36:06.86\00:36:08.50
Yeah. Very nice.
00:36:08.53\00:36:09.96
It was 158
church members baptized.
00:36:10.00\00:36:13.03
Wow, beautiful.
00:36:13.07\00:36:14.57
Fantastic result. Right.
00:36:14.60\00:36:16.27
Yeah, and then was Ben Lee belt
00:36:16.30\00:36:19.64
also from America.
00:36:19.67\00:36:22.01
It was 88 church
members baptized in Kaunas.
00:36:22.04\00:36:25.78
Then 93 came at the time
00:36:25.81\00:36:29.72
I believe Helmut
00:36:29.75\00:36:33.39
and Helmut Tretson and his son.
00:36:33.42\00:36:37.93
I must remember his name.
00:36:37.96\00:36:41.36
The son was at the time,
00:36:41.40\00:36:42.73
Nevada Youth
Conference president.
00:36:42.76\00:36:46.13
So they held a
very nice campaign
00:36:46.17\00:36:48.47
again it was
baptized over 100 members.
00:36:48.50\00:36:51.84
So the work, the
mission grew very rapidly
00:36:51.87\00:36:57.21
and then in Klaipeda
there was another seminar
00:36:57.25\00:37:00.82
and so it was a
kind of many serious uh,
00:37:00.85\00:37:05.32
I also remember Pastor Tucker
I think his name was from--
00:37:05.35\00:37:11.36
He came to Vilnius
also had a nice campaign.
00:37:11.39\00:37:16.46
So and there was also a Pastor,
another pastor from America,
00:37:16.50\00:37:20.80
I don't remember now his name
00:37:20.84\00:37:22.70
but in Siauliai so
that was quite encouraging
00:37:22.74\00:37:27.58
and local church
members and church pastors say,
00:37:27.61\00:37:30.65
"Okay, we can also do something.
00:37:30.68\00:37:32.15
Right.
00:37:32.18\00:37:33.92
And they're trained I'm sure.
00:37:33.95\00:37:35.28
Yes. Right.
00:37:35.32\00:37:36.65
Yes, we participated
and so how it was done
00:37:36.69\00:37:39.55
and that was a nice time
00:37:39.59\00:37:41.39
and I think very important
event happened at Lithuanian,
00:37:41.42\00:37:47.70
Bible society was
organized and Adventist Church
00:37:47.73\00:37:51.43
was one of the a
kind of establishers,
00:37:51.47\00:37:54.97
founders and then we
can get more literature,
00:37:55.00\00:37:59.07
New Testaments,
00:37:59.11\00:38:00.44
Bibles and another
should bring paintings.
00:38:00.48\00:38:02.94
So that helped
the work to expand.
00:38:02.98\00:38:07.48
I remember myself, my
first campaign was in 1995
00:38:07.52\00:38:11.19
so and then we continued to,
00:38:11.22\00:38:13.79
and I had so far five
places so and still it is going.
00:38:13.82\00:38:19.03
Not that good, as
it was in those times
00:38:19.06\00:38:22.23
but still it works.
00:38:22.26\00:38:23.60
You know, that's one
of the things though,
00:38:23.63\00:38:24.97
the people have to understand,
00:38:25.00\00:38:27.70
there are times when
people are more receptive
00:38:27.74\00:38:30.31
than the others using the
times of difficulty or like
00:38:30.34\00:38:34.84
right after the Wall
falls and there is freedom.
00:38:34.88\00:38:38.51
However, if we keep
proclaiming the word of God,
00:38:38.55\00:38:42.45
we will find individuals
who want to make that decision.
00:38:42.48\00:38:48.12
Yes.
00:38:48.16\00:38:49.89
I recounted this story many,
many times but Marian Kidder
00:38:49.92\00:38:55.03
held a meeting in New England
00:38:55.06\00:38:59.93
and in that place,
where he held the meeting,
00:38:59.97\00:39:05.24
I think there were
very few people baptized
00:39:05.27\00:39:07.18
maybe one but that
one was Mark Finley.
00:39:07.21\00:39:10.65
So Mark's
ministry has multiplied.
00:39:10.68\00:39:14.62
I was not even
counted as a baptism went
00:39:14.65\00:39:17.35
for came and the
Lord has given me
00:39:17.39\00:39:20.12
over 15,000 baptisms
00:39:20.16\00:39:21.92
so you'll never
know when that person,
00:39:21.96\00:39:25.93
the Lord is going to reach
if it's one or two or three.
00:39:25.96\00:39:29.00
You'll never know when the
Lord is going to use that one
00:39:29.03\00:39:32.40
to bring in even
more than it happens
00:39:32.43\00:39:34.97
so by preaching the message,
00:39:35.00\00:39:37.37
it renews it in our own
members' hearts and there is,
00:39:37.41\00:39:42.81
there is growth
that comes as a result.
00:39:42.84\00:39:45.81
Sometimes great growth
and sometimes slow growth
00:39:45.85\00:39:49.28
but growth in any
way you go about it.
00:39:49.32\00:39:53.05
And I know
sometimes people say well,
00:39:53.09\00:39:55.72
but sometimes they leave.
00:39:55.76\00:39:58.29
That's true.
00:39:58.33\00:39:59.66
But sometimes they stay too.
00:39:59.69\00:40:02.26
And those that stay make a
big difference in God's work.
00:40:02.30\00:40:07.07
And when you look
00:40:07.10\00:40:08.74
at the rise of our
church membership, since 1990,
00:40:08.77\00:40:15.04
it is just astronomical
growth often because
00:40:15.08\00:40:20.75
we began to really re-emphasize
holding public meetings again.
00:40:20.78\00:40:25.52
There are always those that say,
00:40:25.55\00:40:27.59
"Oh, it doesn't work,"
00:40:27.62\00:40:28.96
and then this
and that and so forth
00:40:28.99\00:40:30.76
but it works
better than anything else
00:40:30.79\00:40:33.73
we have ever done.
00:40:33.76\00:40:35.43
And so I urge you
00:40:35.46\00:40:37.83
and I know as a leader I
don't need to urge you this
00:40:37.87\00:40:40.64
but I urge you to
encourage your people
00:40:40.67\00:40:42.90
to keep holding meetings.
00:40:42.94\00:40:44.31
Yes.
00:40:44.34\00:40:45.67
And I always
quote Fordyce Detamore.
00:40:45.71\00:40:49.91
He said, "if you
are not succeeding,
00:40:49.94\00:40:52.01
if you are failing,
multiply your rate of failure."
00:40:52.05\00:40:56.95
so that if you, he said,
00:40:56.99\00:40:58.59
"if you want to
baptize a 100 a year,
00:40:58.62\00:41:01.06
a 100 and you are
only baptizing 10,
00:41:01.09\00:41:03.29
and hold 10 campaigns
00:41:03.32\00:41:04.93
so you'll get your hundred."
00:41:04.96\00:41:07.40
So I do believe that
the God expects us to keep,
00:41:07.43\00:41:12.87
giving the word,
giving them the word.
00:41:12.90\00:41:15.67
Well, some of the,
what are some of the plans
00:41:15.70\00:41:17.67
that you have for the future
for the work in Lithuania?
00:41:17.71\00:41:22.48
Well, we're really grateful
to the Lord Jesus Christ,
00:41:22.51\00:41:28.68
what He has
done so far. Oh, yes.
00:41:28.72\00:41:31.12
And I think it
would be correct to say
00:41:31.15\00:41:35.09
that today we stand
on the shoulders of those
00:41:35.12\00:41:37.29
who laid the foundation.
00:41:37.33\00:41:38.66
Yes.
00:41:38.69\00:41:40.03
They helped us to start to
move to see what we can do.
00:41:40.06\00:41:45.80
A lot of help was by literature.
00:41:47.97\00:41:50.97
I even remember
some nights' nice stories
00:41:51.01\00:41:53.71
that people read the book like,
00:41:53.74\00:41:56.38
for example, "Great Controversy"
00:41:56.41\00:41:59.61
or of for
example prophecy books,
00:41:59.65\00:42:02.35
some kind of, we published
00:42:02.38\00:42:05.25
and they came to the
church just by reading the book.
00:42:05.29\00:42:08.12
So one of the
important plans for us
00:42:08.16\00:42:10.73
is to continue to
distribute the books
00:42:10.76\00:42:14.46
and that's what we need,
00:42:14.50\00:42:16.10
a lot of help
for computer's work.
00:42:16.13\00:42:19.13
Another plan I believe,
00:42:19.17\00:42:22.57
since the Lord helped us to
not only register the church
00:42:22.60\00:42:27.24
but to get the
recognition was the problem.
00:42:27.28\00:42:29.78
That was a quite a big work.
00:42:29.81\00:42:32.81
We have the more
freedom now, opportunities,
00:42:32.85\00:42:36.32
we have internet,
and we have radio.
00:42:36.35\00:42:38.85
So it's kind of my desire
to think about radio programs
00:42:38.89\00:42:46.23
that people can hear more.
00:42:46.26\00:42:49.06
Now we have, we can,
00:42:49.10\00:42:51.40
we are allowed to go
to radio and to record.
00:42:51.43\00:42:56.14
But that takes
time and some resources.
00:42:56.17\00:42:59.34
So that's my dream, our dream.
00:42:59.37\00:43:02.28
We started already
00:43:02.31\00:43:03.65
some kind of
progress in using internet.
00:43:03.68\00:43:05.65
Over internet to record
00:43:05.68\00:43:07.45
but then people
watch only internet
00:43:07.48\00:43:09.75
but we would like
to have also radio.
00:43:09.78\00:43:11.55
Right.
00:43:11.59\00:43:13.36
And still there are, there
are some places in Lithuania
00:43:13.39\00:43:15.99
which are not
by Adventist church
00:43:16.02\00:43:19.19
how to say reached.
00:43:19.23\00:43:20.56
Dark County,
that we call it here.
00:43:20.60\00:43:22.30
some parts Dark areas.
00:43:22.33\00:43:23.67
Yes, we would like to establish
00:43:23.70\00:43:25.23
Adventist
church's presence there.
00:43:25.27\00:43:27.17
So we would say
this would be our plans
00:43:27.20\00:43:31.14
but most of us,
mostly, above all
00:43:31.17\00:43:34.84
we would like to really
pray the Lord to the Lord
00:43:34.88\00:43:38.28
and submit to His
guidance, to His will.
00:43:38.31\00:43:41.68
That's the, our desire,
00:43:41.72\00:43:44.35
that to see how
the Lord guides us.
00:43:44.39\00:43:46.59
How he opens the
door and what He can do.
00:43:46.62\00:43:49.79
I believe to work with
young people is very important.
00:43:49.82\00:43:53.93
Well, I do
believe with all my heart
00:43:53.96\00:43:55.90
that the Lord is coming
soon and I know you do as well
00:43:55.93\00:44:00.47
and we want to
do everything we can
00:44:00.50\00:44:02.97
to reach as many
people as we can.
00:44:03.00\00:44:06.07
We're not just
trying to grow a big church,
00:44:06.11\00:44:10.08
big denomination,
we're trying to fill heaven
00:44:10.11\00:44:14.78
with people that
love the Lord Jesus Christ
00:44:14.82\00:44:17.35
and who trust in
Him for life eternal.
00:44:17.39\00:44:20.92
And you know, the Bible says,
00:44:20.96\00:44:22.79
"You shall know the truth
00:44:22.82\00:44:24.16
and the truth
shall set you free."
00:44:24.19\00:44:26.46
The truth is Jesus Christ
00:44:26.49\00:44:28.63
and He has a
truth of all of the word
00:44:28.66\00:44:32.33
and that He wants us to present.
00:44:32.37\00:44:35.37
And so we've got a lot of people
00:44:35.40\00:44:37.94
that really
still need to hear it
00:44:37.97\00:44:40.51
and I'm sure there are
many in Lithuania as well.
00:44:40.54\00:44:45.15
Well, I know
that the Lord is going
00:44:45.18\00:44:47.68
to be blessing your work there.
00:44:47.72\00:44:49.72
I believe that
with all my heart.
00:44:49.75\00:44:52.05
I urge you to
continue holding meetings
00:44:52.09\00:44:56.06
and having your pastors
hold meetings, while we can.
00:44:56.09\00:45:00.90
And you mentioned about
the registration of the church.
00:45:00.93\00:45:03.16
This has been so
important for our people.
00:45:03.20\00:45:07.37
Yes.
00:45:07.40\00:45:08.74
I know that the
church, like for in Ukraine
00:45:08.77\00:45:12.17
was registered many, many
years before communism came in.
00:45:12.21\00:45:16.95
So and they continued
with the registration.
00:45:16.98\00:45:20.08
Now there were some
groups that broke away.
00:45:20.12\00:45:22.38
But that
registration was so important.
00:45:22.42\00:45:24.75
Yeah.
00:45:24.79\00:45:26.12
I had just gone over it and held
00:45:26.15\00:45:27.49
a big public crusade in,
00:45:27.52\00:45:30.56
as the matter of
fact and on my way back,
00:45:30.59\00:45:33.40
I was flying on the plane
00:45:33.43\00:45:36.03
and started talking
with the man and found out
00:45:36.06\00:45:38.07
that he was with a
Church of Christ group.
00:45:38.10\00:45:41.80
And they were trying to
organize something there.
00:45:41.84\00:45:44.51
But they had no
church organization.
00:45:44.54\00:45:47.48
So the government
would not allow them
00:45:47.51\00:45:50.38
to hold up a meeting.
00:45:50.41\00:45:51.75
Yes.
00:45:51.78\00:45:53.11
And they were having such
a difficult time and he said,
00:45:53.15\00:45:55.08
"How in the world do you
hold public meetings there?"
00:45:55.12\00:45:58.82
And I said because our
leaders had the forethought
00:45:58.85\00:46:02.72
to register the
church years before
00:46:02.76\00:46:06.19
and so therefore they were
able to really go forth publicly
00:46:06.23\00:46:13.30
and their growth in
that part of the world
00:46:13.34\00:46:15.97
has been just astronomical
in the former Soviet Union.
00:46:16.00\00:46:20.98
And of course we
have our station in there
00:46:21.01\00:46:27.85
in Russia, and
seminary in Ziaska, Ziaski,
00:46:27.88\00:46:32.99
I came but our station
has been so successful.
00:46:33.02\00:46:40.00
Have you been able
to have some contact
00:46:40.03\00:46:43.90
with 3ABN through
the television there?
00:46:43.93\00:46:48.07
Well, actually
interesting is that
00:46:48.10\00:46:49.60
during General
Conference session,
00:46:49.64\00:46:52.51
I met a lady who gave
me some information uh,
00:46:52.54\00:46:58.95
what is the possibility
so we would love to kind of,
00:46:58.98\00:47:04.72
see what is the possibility
to get, to see those times,
00:47:04.75\00:47:11.69
that information that broadcast
that comes from Novagraaf.
00:47:11.73\00:47:16.56
Because we have also Russian
people living in Lithuania,
00:47:16.60\00:47:20.74
even also Russian
people speaking in our church
00:47:20.77\00:47:23.97
and they would love to too
and many people in our church,
00:47:24.01\00:47:29.14
among our church members
understand Russian language
00:47:29.18\00:47:31.58
because we lived
through that time so we know.
00:47:31.61\00:47:34.72
Okay, well, I know
that there are many of you
00:47:34.75\00:47:37.89
that are have had
connections with Lithuania
00:47:37.92\00:47:41.02
either through birth
or having lived there
00:47:41.06\00:47:43.26
or other parts
of the Soviet block
00:47:43.29\00:47:45.66
and just some of you that just
are touched by the Holy Spirit.
00:47:45.69\00:47:49.03
If you'd like to get in touch
with the Lithuanian conference
00:47:49.06\00:47:53.84
and with Pastor Hibner,
this is how you can do it.
00:47:53.87\00:47:57.57
If you would like
to contact Bertold,
00:48:00.31\00:48:02.04
then you can
write to Bertold Hibner,
00:48:02.08\00:48:04.51
Pasiles 122,
Kaunas, LT-51032, Lithuania.
00:48:04.55\00:48:11.15
That's Bertold
Hibner, Pasiles 122,
00:48:11.19\00:48:15.12
Kaunas, LT-51032, Lithuania.
00:48:15.16\00:48:19.93
You can call +37065591416.
00:48:19.96\00:48:26.00
That's +37065591416
00:48:26.03\00:48:31.74
or visit them
online at adventistai.it.
00:48:31.77\00:48:36.44
That's adventistai.it.
00:48:36.48\00:48:39.98
Contact him today.
He'd love to hear from you.
00:48:40.02\00:48:43.35
Well, listen now you
be sure to get in touch
00:48:45.69\00:48:48.46
with the Lithuanian Conference
00:48:48.49\00:48:50.46
and now let's listen
again to Darrell Marshall
00:48:50.49\00:48:54.00
singing one of
my favorite songs,
00:48:54.03\00:48:56.46
"Who Am I."
00:48:56.50\00:48:58.43
When I think of how He came
00:49:14.85\00:49:20.92
Far from glory
00:49:20.96\00:49:27.80
He came and
dwelt among the lowly
00:49:27.83\00:49:35.80
Such as I
00:49:35.84\00:49:41.68
To suffer shame
and such disgrace
00:49:41.71\00:49:48.25
On Mount Calvary take my place
00:49:48.28\00:49:54.42
Then I ask myself this question
00:49:56.49\00:50:03.26
Who am I?
00:50:03.30\00:50:06.07
Who am I
00:50:09.10\00:50:14.04
that The King
would bleed and die for
00:50:14.08\00:50:19.48
Who am I that He would pray
00:50:23.08\00:50:30.33
Not my will, but Thine for
00:50:30.36\00:50:37.60
The answer I may never know
00:50:37.63\00:50:43.91
Why He ever loved me so
00:50:43.94\00:50:51.45
But to that old
rugged cross He would go
00:50:51.48\00:50:58.59
For who am I?
00:50:58.62\00:51:01.26
When I'm reminded of His
these precious words Jesus said
00:51:06.23\00:51:12.97
I'll leave thee never
00:51:13.00\00:51:17.97
He said If you'll be true
00:51:18.01\00:51:22.44
I'll give to you life forever
00:51:22.48\00:51:28.92
I don't know
what I could have done
00:51:32.02\00:51:39.59
To deserve God's only Son
00:51:39.63\00:51:46.94
He'll fight all of my
battles until they're won
00:51:46.97\00:51:53.14
For who am I?
00:51:53.17\00:51:57.25
Who am I
00:52:00.38\00:52:05.29
that The King
would bleed and die for
00:52:05.32\00:52:11.06
Who am I that He would pray
00:52:14.33\00:52:21.74
Not my will, but Thine for
00:52:21.77\00:52:25.41
The answer I may never know
00:52:28.61\00:52:35.08
Why He ever loved me so
00:52:35.12\00:52:42.56
That to an old
rugged cross He would go
00:52:42.59\00:52:50.47
To an old rugged
cross He would go
00:52:50.50\00:52:57.31
To an old rugged
cross He would go
00:52:57.34\00:53:03.45
For who am I?
00:53:03.48\00:53:06.72
Who am I
00:53:06.75\00:53:09.78
Who am I
00:53:09.98\00:53:13.82