I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello, friends.
Welcome to the 3ABN Today.
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My name is John Lomacang
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and I have a
beautiful host with me.
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I think you
might know who she is,
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but just in case you don't.
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I'm Angela Lomacang and
we're glad to be here today.
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Yes, honey, we have a
very interesting program
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for a number of reasons.
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Not just the topic,
but one of the guests
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is not really a guest to
you and not to either one of us.
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And we'll give you a
chance in just a few minutes
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to meet both of our guests.
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But we want to
encourage you to sit down
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and take the time to
listen to this program.
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You know, a lot of
time we're in journeys,
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this is not just
a spiritual journey,
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but this is
journey about spiritualism.
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How the spiritual
life and spiritualism
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is contained in
the very same program.
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The beauty of it is,
the Lord is glorified.
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And we're gonna talk
about not only the journey,
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but also
deliverance in the lives
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of both of our guests today.
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Before we introduce you to them,
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we want to just
thank you for your prayers
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and your support of 3ABN.
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And for those of you
that come and volunteer,
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we thank the Lord for you.
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But for those that
support us financially
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we also praise God
that you're partnering
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with us to keep the gospel
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going and
growing around the world.
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And if you're listening
to the program on radio,
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my wife works for 3ABN
Radio, don't you, honey?
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Yeah, I sure do.
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And I-- I have
been there for, what?
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About 10 years now,
little over 10 years
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and I'm very
pleased to be there.
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And our guests-- Well,
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we'll talk about
the guests in a moment.
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I was kind of tempting
not to go back to that.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But we introduce
you to our guest,
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we have some music today.
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A piano song "Tis So
Sweet To Trust In Jesus"
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by a gentlemen by the
name of Johan Sentana, enjoy.
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Thank you so much,
Johan, for that song
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"Tis So Sweet
To Trust In Jesus."
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Amen.
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And you know this program really
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is about trust
and what God has done
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in the lives of
both of our guests.
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I'm not gonna take
too much more time.
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Honey, why don't you introduce
our first guest for us today?
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Oh, I'm privileged
to introduce my boss,
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the one that
hired me at 3ABN Radio
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and I have learned
so much from this man.
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His many years
of radio experience
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to Jay Christian, welcome.
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Thank you. Thank you.
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Glad to be here. Yes and--
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And he also-- Go ahead.
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Yeah. Jay is in so many--
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Well, it's kind of strange
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to be on the other side today.
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You're normally on
the interviewing side,
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talking to
people on radio and...
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That's right.
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And putting music
meditations together
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on the radio and
those Bible questions.
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I was listening for those.
00:09:01.80\00:09:03.14
Now...
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wait for the commercial
00:09:04.54\00:09:05.97
we'll give you the
answer when we comeback.
00:09:06.01\00:09:07.98
But for those
who are watching 3ABN
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and listening to a
lot of other programs done
00:09:09.84\00:09:11.31
like today programs, they often
hear you do the address role.
00:09:11.35\00:09:15.48
And so Jay is also the
voice behind many of the things
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that your hear
going on here at 3ABN.
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So good to have you
here, Jay. Thank you.
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And behind beside all
that we're good friends.
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That's right. That's right.
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Very good friends. Yes.
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And he's also one of
your elders at church.
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That's right. Okay.
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So many hats. Yes.
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So today I'm gonna
get a chance to find out
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more about your life
and so will our audience.
00:09:36.24\00:09:38.34
But Helen Heavirland,
good to have you here today.
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Thank you. And we
said so much about Jay.
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He didn't have to
say anything about him.
00:09:44.55\00:09:45.88
So let's you give
you an opportunity
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to tell our
viewers and listeners,
00:09:47.35\00:09:48.68
who you are, where you're from
00:09:48.72\00:09:50.42
and how you connect in
this particular program?
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Well, I'm a child of the King.
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Right.
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And I live in the
Walla Walla Valley,
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in the Washington, Oregon area.
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And I'm a nurse by training,
a bookkeeper and secretary
00:10:01.66\00:10:07.50
by necessity for
my husbands business
00:10:07.54\00:10:10.04
and an author by passion.
00:10:10.07\00:10:12.14
And an encourager.
00:10:12.17\00:10:13.51
And an encourager.
00:10:13.54\00:10:14.88
That's right.
00:10:14.91\00:10:16.24
And the story that
you're gonna here today
00:10:16.28\00:10:17.88
is about how the Lord created
a coalition for learning,
00:10:17.91\00:10:22.75
for Jay to
communicate his life experiences
00:10:22.78\00:10:26.82
for Helen to be
connected to that journey.
00:10:26.86\00:10:29.62
And how that also started
another journey in her life
00:10:29.66\00:10:32.99
which led her to write a
book about writing his book
00:10:33.03\00:10:35.93
and we'll find out
about that in a few moments.
00:10:35.96\00:10:38.37
But I want to go
ahead and just right dive
00:10:38.40\00:10:40.60
into the program and
I'm gonna begin with Jay.
00:10:40.64\00:10:43.81
I know we didn't
give you a chance to,
00:10:43.84\00:10:45.24
to tell where you're from,
00:10:45.27\00:10:46.61
we just talk about
your connection to radio.
00:10:46.64\00:10:47.98
But just for the
benefit of our audience,
00:10:48.01\00:10:49.81
tell us where you're from.
00:10:49.84\00:10:51.45
Kind of give us
some of your background.
00:10:51.48\00:10:52.81
Okay.
00:10:52.85\00:10:54.18
Well, very quickly, I
grew up in the Seattle area.
00:10:54.22\00:10:57.02
And when I was 18 I
joined the army and moved away
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and lived in a lot of places.
00:11:01.52\00:11:04.13
I've lived all
around the United States.
00:11:04.16\00:11:06.70
So I guess we could say,
I'm from the United States
00:11:06.73\00:11:10.07
because I've lived in
so many different places.
00:11:10.10\00:11:12.33
But I grew up in
the Seattle area.
00:11:12.37\00:11:14.50
Were you born
and raise Adventist?
00:11:14.54\00:11:16.30
Ah, no. No, I wasn't.
00:11:16.34\00:11:19.07
And we'll talk
about that in the story,
00:11:19.11\00:11:20.74
but I was not born
and raised an Adventist.
00:11:20.78\00:11:23.95
When I finally met
someone who was an Adventist,
00:11:23.98\00:11:28.35
I sort of almost
thought I remembered hearing
00:11:28.38\00:11:31.69
that name somewhere, sometime,
00:11:31.72\00:11:33.25
but I wasn't exactly
sure about the denomination.
00:11:33.29\00:11:37.66
And so it's kind of
an interesting story
00:11:37.69\00:11:40.60
in itself, but
I'd not really heard
00:11:40.63\00:11:42.43
the name much before them.
00:11:42.46\00:11:44.77
Now what's amazing
about your story is,
00:11:44.80\00:11:46.74
now you are a
proponent of the truth.
00:11:46.77\00:11:49.14
You communicate
the truth on radio,
00:11:49.17\00:11:51.11
but there was a time
when you fell for a lie.
00:11:51.14\00:11:54.38
Kind of take us into that.
00:11:54.41\00:11:56.98
Walk us into that
journey about your,
00:11:57.01\00:12:00.52
your entrance into the
new age, 'cause moving around
00:12:00.55\00:12:03.99
and being from the
North, up in Northwest
00:12:04.02\00:12:06.22
and lived in
California also and other areas.
00:12:06.25\00:12:09.69
Tell us about your journey,
00:12:09.72\00:12:11.06
how you actually
dove into the kind of life
00:12:11.09\00:12:14.10
that we're gonna be
talking about focusing on today.
00:12:14.13\00:12:17.27
Well, when I was raised,
00:12:17.30\00:12:20.17
I was raised in
church, Lutheran Church.
00:12:20.20\00:12:24.21
And it was our duty to
go to church every Sunday
00:12:24.24\00:12:28.38
and this is going to
sound kind of strange.
00:12:28.41\00:12:32.25
I don't know
that I've said this,
00:12:32.28\00:12:33.62
to the general public before,
00:12:33.65\00:12:34.98
so we'll have to see
what the reaction is.
00:12:35.02\00:12:36.85
But when I was
young, I would actually--
00:12:36.89\00:12:39.55
We go to church
on Sunday morning
00:12:39.59\00:12:40.96
and I would pray a
lot on Sunday morning.
00:12:40.99\00:12:43.16
And I would pray that my
parents would over sleep.
00:12:43.19\00:12:46.70
So that we didn't
have to go to church.
00:12:46.73\00:12:50.17
But as I got a
little bit older I was--
00:12:50.20\00:12:52.57
I began to get interested
in Jesus and the religion.
00:12:52.60\00:12:56.37
Sometimes I go to
vacation Bible school.
00:12:56.40\00:12:58.27
Either our church or you
know, some of our neighbors
00:12:58.31\00:13:00.78
might belong to a church
that had vacation Bible school.
00:13:00.81\00:13:03.65
And I would go
and have a lot of fun.
00:13:03.68\00:13:07.62
And so in the
Lutheran Church you're about,
00:13:07.65\00:13:11.49
I think 12 and you
start studying for 2 years
00:13:11.52\00:13:15.52
to become a
member of the church,
00:13:15.56\00:13:16.89
it's called
catechism and we all know that,
00:13:16.93\00:13:18.63
the Lutheran
Church has a lot of its,
00:13:18.66\00:13:23.33
basic tenants rooted
in the Catholic Church
00:13:23.37\00:13:25.77
because of Martin Luther
who was one of the forerunners
00:13:25.80\00:13:30.84
or one of the early
leaders in the Protestant,
00:13:30.87\00:13:33.88
protesters
movement became Protestant.
00:13:33.91\00:13:36.88
But there's still an
awful lot in the church
00:13:36.91\00:13:39.11
that is reminiscent of
the catholic denomination.
00:13:39.15\00:13:43.62
So anyway I was
going through the lessons
00:13:43.65\00:13:48.59
and I'm a question asker.
00:13:48.62\00:13:50.59
I like to ask
questions. I'm curious.
00:13:50.63\00:13:52.99
And sometimes
it irritates people
00:13:53.03\00:13:54.63
and I'm sorry about
that, but I like to know.
00:13:54.66\00:13:57.87
I just have questions.
00:13:57.90\00:13:59.50
When a question comes
to my mind I'll ask it.
00:13:59.53\00:14:02.07
And so we weren't very
far into the catechism class,
00:14:02.10\00:14:05.67
the first one
before the hand goes up.
00:14:05.71\00:14:08.64
And, you know, the
Reverent, what does this mean?
00:14:08.68\00:14:11.11
What does that
mean in the Bible?
00:14:11.15\00:14:12.68
And he answered my
questions pretty good
00:14:12.71\00:14:15.12
for a little while.
00:14:15.15\00:14:16.48
And then after a
while I got to be a pain
00:14:16.52\00:14:19.95
and I can look
back-- I can understand
00:14:19.99\00:14:21.86
because I run into a
few of me's that were,
00:14:21.89\00:14:23.99
you know, kind of short and so,
00:14:24.03\00:14:26.53
you know,
that's what I was like.
00:14:26.56\00:14:28.33
But I was asking a
lot of of questions
00:14:28.36\00:14:30.63
and after a while he
got tired of the questions.
00:14:30.67\00:14:35.34
And he'd roll the eyes
and here's his question again.
00:14:35.37\00:14:39.44
He got another question.
00:14:39.47\00:14:41.24
And often he
didn't have the answers.
00:14:41.28\00:14:43.31
Too often I felt
that his answer was,
00:14:43.35\00:14:46.45
well, you just have to believe,
we don't have that information.
00:14:46.48\00:14:49.98
And I know sometimes
that is a valid answer,
00:14:50.02\00:14:52.82
I understand
that especially now.
00:14:52.85\00:14:55.16
But I just felt
there way too much.
00:14:55.19\00:14:58.63
And I finally got frustrated
and I stopped asking questions,
00:14:58.66\00:15:03.77
but I was still
listening and trying to learn
00:15:03.80\00:15:06.84
and then
somewhere along the line
00:15:06.87\00:15:09.07
we got into the
Doctrine of Hell.
00:15:09.10\00:15:12.91
And I don't know if I
hadn't been paying attention.
00:15:12.94\00:15:15.84
I don't know if the, the pastor
00:15:15.88\00:15:18.61
had not been
saying much about it.
00:15:18.65\00:15:20.12
My parents didn't talk
about it at home for sure.
00:15:20.15\00:15:22.95
But all of a
sudden I learned that
00:15:22.98\00:15:24.39
if I wasn't a good little boy,
00:15:24.42\00:15:25.75
I was going to
burn forever in hell.
00:15:25.79\00:15:28.32
And by the way I
want to establish this.
00:15:28.36\00:15:32.39
I don't want to knock any
religion, any denomination.
00:15:32.43\00:15:37.40
I don't want to do that.
00:15:37.43\00:15:38.77
This was just my experience
00:15:38.80\00:15:41.44
and my whole family was raised
Lutheran, wonderful people.
00:15:41.47\00:15:46.68
I've known wonderful
people that are Lutherans.
00:15:46.71\00:15:48.68
I'm not putting that
down, this is just my story.
00:15:48.71\00:15:51.95
What has happened with me.
00:15:51.98\00:15:54.65
So I heard that I was
going to burn forever,
00:15:54.68\00:15:59.22
if I wasn't a good
little boy and a good big boy
00:15:59.25\00:16:02.56
when I became an adult.
00:16:02.59\00:16:04.23
And I didn't like that
because I got to thinking,
00:16:04.26\00:16:08.80
how can I love a
God that if I'm not good
00:16:08.83\00:16:12.97
in the 50, 60, 70, 80, 100
years that I have on earth,
00:16:13.00\00:16:17.01
if I'm not good enough for Him
00:16:17.04\00:16:18.67
than I'm gonna burn
six million years from now,
00:16:18.71\00:16:20.94
six billion from now, I'm
still going to rioting in pain.
00:16:20.98\00:16:26.18
And I thought-- And I never,
00:16:26.21\00:16:28.92
I always believed in God.
00:16:28.95\00:16:30.39
I never stopped
believing in God.
00:16:30.42\00:16:31.79
I just didn't like God.
00:16:31.82\00:16:34.69
And so I literally, I
mean, not as a figure of speech,
00:16:34.72\00:16:38.69
but I literally shook
my fist to God and said,
00:16:38.73\00:16:41.26
I will never serve You. Wow.
00:16:41.30\00:16:43.90
So because of that doctrine.
00:16:43.93\00:16:47.57
And so I've finished
catechism because I had to,
00:16:47.60\00:16:51.27
but I lost all interest
in going to church myself.
00:16:51.31\00:16:55.74
I developed an
interesting habit,
00:16:55.78\00:16:58.15
when somebody, I
would meet someone
00:16:58.18\00:16:59.78
and they would
invite me to go to church,
00:16:59.81\00:17:01.78
I would start asking
the pastor questions.
00:17:01.82\00:17:05.32
Because I knew
enough of the Bible,
00:17:05.35\00:17:08.39
that I could tell
when an answer wasn't right
00:17:08.42\00:17:11.86
or I would want to go to
the Bible and read about it.
00:17:11.89\00:17:14.83
And often enough I
found out that the pastor
00:17:14.86\00:17:17.20
was actually giving
me incorrect information.
00:17:17.23\00:17:19.87
One of the
habits that I developed
00:17:19.90\00:17:21.57
was to read the text in context.
00:17:21.60\00:17:24.97
Lot of people
don't do that. True.
00:17:25.01\00:17:27.18
And so I started reading it
in context and often I said,
00:17:27.21\00:17:32.41
just the opposite thing that
00:17:32.45\00:17:34.68
what the pastor
is said that is said.
00:17:34.72\00:17:36.25
That's reading the
versus before and after.
00:17:36.28\00:17:37.72
Yeah, reading the
versus before and after taking,
00:17:37.75\00:17:40.42
taking the whole, not
just, well, the answer is found
00:17:40.46\00:17:43.06
in this book, you
know, in this verse.
00:17:43.09\00:17:45.69
Well, I would read the
versus before and after.
00:17:45.73\00:17:48.33
And often it was
entirely different.
00:17:48.36\00:17:50.07
And so my responsibility,
00:17:50.10\00:17:51.43
why would I want
to join your church,
00:17:51.47\00:17:53.60
you know, if you don't know
the Bible any better than that,
00:17:53.64\00:17:55.97
you know, I don't have
any reason to listen to you.
00:17:56.00\00:17:58.27
And one day I was living
in Long Beach, California,
00:17:58.31\00:18:04.21
and I met some neighbors
who invited me to go to a class
00:18:04.25\00:18:10.62
that they went to in North
Hollywood for self hypnosis.
00:18:10.65\00:18:15.59
And I had just been
reading in the newspaper
00:18:15.62\00:18:18.06
about reincarnation.
00:18:18.09\00:18:19.96
And at a lot of
times people remembered
00:18:20.00\00:18:22.46
former lives through hypnosis.
00:18:22.50\00:18:24.80
So I asked if this had anything
to do with, with reincarnation.
00:18:24.83\00:18:28.84
They said yes.
00:18:28.87\00:18:30.21
I said definitely, I want to go.
00:18:30.24\00:18:31.57
Oh, wow.
00:18:31.61\00:18:32.94
So I went, I
learned, I experienced,
00:18:32.97\00:18:36.48
I'm going to in
quotes "Former lives."
00:18:36.51\00:18:41.35
I began to be a
believer and they told me
00:18:41.38\00:18:44.95
about Edgar
Cayce who is, who was--
00:18:44.99\00:18:48.56
He died in 1945, but he is,
his writings and his beliefs
00:18:48.59\00:18:53.90
and so forth were a big
part of the new age movement.
00:18:53.93\00:18:57.87
And so he almost in a way,
00:18:57.90\00:19:00.34
I mean, I hate to say like this,
00:19:00.37\00:19:01.70
but it's probably true.
00:19:01.74\00:19:03.27
He was certainly, if
not my god, my messiah,
00:19:03.30\00:19:06.37
if I could say it like that.
00:19:06.41\00:19:07.78
Wow. So I had experiences.
00:19:07.81\00:19:10.31
For many years I began
after I got out of the army
00:19:10.35\00:19:14.08
I started to work
in radio broadcasting.
00:19:14.12\00:19:17.75
And when I was on the
air I would be promoting
00:19:17.79\00:19:21.59
new age beliefs or incarnation.
00:19:21.62\00:19:23.86
I had a radio talk
show on Monticello, Indiana,
00:19:23.89\00:19:27.00
which isn't too far from here.
00:19:27.03\00:19:28.36
No.
00:19:28.40\00:19:29.73
And I had a
radio talk show there
00:19:29.76\00:19:31.40
and we'd start
talking about reincarnation
00:19:31.43\00:19:33.54
and things like that.
00:19:33.57\00:19:34.90
And some people would
call and want to argue with me
00:19:34.94\00:19:37.37
and other people would
agree and things like that.
00:19:37.41\00:19:41.14
And as my radio
profession grew and grew,
00:19:41.18\00:19:46.41
I go to places like Cleveland,
San Francisco, Memphis.
00:19:46.45\00:19:50.75
Some, some big
cities, some small towns.
00:19:50.79\00:19:53.46
And I would take
that message with me,
00:19:53.49\00:19:56.16
because to me
here is where I really,
00:19:56.19\00:20:01.46
what it came down to for me.
00:20:01.50\00:20:03.40
I wanted to find
a loving God. Yeah.
00:20:03.43\00:20:07.67
And I did not find him
00:20:07.70\00:20:09.14
in the
traditional Christian church.
00:20:09.17\00:20:11.21
Not anybody that
would make me burn
00:20:11.24\00:20:13.58
and writhe in pain
forever and ever and ever.
00:20:13.61\00:20:15.31
Right.
00:20:15.34\00:20:16.68
No matter how sinful my
life would be now for 50,
00:20:16.71\00:20:20.62
you know, like 50,
100 years or whatever.
00:20:20.65\00:20:23.85
There's no way I could commit
enough sin to burn eternally.
00:20:23.89\00:20:28.52
Six billion, 20 billion
years from now, still burning.
00:20:28.56\00:20:31.99
And that was a
hateful god to me.
00:20:32.03\00:20:34.16
You know, Jay, by the
way that, that very belief
00:20:34.20\00:20:36.50
has turned many people off
to even thinking about God,
00:20:36.53\00:20:40.04
because they can not reconcile
love with eternal burning.
00:20:40.07\00:20:46.68
What kind of
cynicism is that? Yeah.
00:20:46.71\00:20:49.31
It doesn't even make
any sense that you really,
00:20:49.34\00:20:51.38
I love you so much, I'm
gonna torment you forever.
00:20:51.41\00:20:54.58
And so that's way you
were, that's why that door
00:20:54.62\00:20:56.42
somewhat closed on
your past and so in your,
00:20:56.45\00:21:00.66
in your journey to
look forward a loving God,
00:21:00.69\00:21:03.12
you started discovering things
00:21:03.16\00:21:04.49
that you never
even knew was out there.
00:21:04.53\00:21:06.63
That's true.
00:21:06.66\00:21:08.00
And in the understanding
of reincarnation it just,
00:21:08.03\00:21:14.54
it boils down to works.
00:21:14.57\00:21:16.30
It's works, but I
looked at it as a loving God.
00:21:16.34\00:21:20.21
Wow.
00:21:20.24\00:21:21.58
Because if I made
mistakes in this lifetime,
00:21:21.61\00:21:25.25
God says, that's
okay, don't worry about it.
00:21:25.28\00:21:28.55
You got another life,
you can make up for it.
00:21:28.58\00:21:30.75
And so I began to
believe in the fact
00:21:30.79\00:21:34.26
that I could work off any,
00:21:34.29\00:21:36.83
well, it's called karma,
bad karma from previous lives.
00:21:36.86\00:21:40.63
And it got me--
00:21:40.66\00:21:42.66
Actually I went
further and further into it.
00:21:42.70\00:21:45.33
Praise God I didn't go
as far as many people do.
00:21:45.37\00:21:47.80
I got into a certain level
and pretty much stayed there.
00:21:47.84\00:21:50.64
But it was still far
enough in and I believed
00:21:50.67\00:21:53.78
in completely in reincarnation.
00:21:53.81\00:21:56.95
And I became almost an
active, well, not almost,
00:21:56.98\00:21:59.48
I was an active proponent
and evangelist for New Age.
00:21:59.51\00:22:04.25
Wow.
00:22:04.29\00:22:05.62
And when I was
working at a radio station
00:22:05.65\00:22:07.86
in Everett, Washington,
00:22:07.89\00:22:09.22
there was a New Age
Church there that I ran across.
00:22:09.26\00:22:12.19
And I thought it was just
00:22:12.23\00:22:13.56
really a wonderful place to go--
00:22:13.60\00:22:15.56
Funny, a new age church.
00:22:15.60\00:22:17.73
It sounds like a new--
00:22:17.77\00:22:19.20
But, Jay, didn't you say
00:22:19.23\00:22:20.57
they were loving in that church?
00:22:20.60\00:22:21.94
Yeah. Yeah, everybody was.
00:22:21.97\00:22:23.30
It was a most loving church
I'd ever been to in my life.
00:22:23.34\00:22:26.51
Welcomed,
accepted, and the people,
00:22:26.54\00:22:30.65
everybody smiled and all that.
00:22:30.68\00:22:32.28
And after church we'd
go over to the bookstore
00:22:32.31\00:22:34.12
where they sell a few books.
00:22:34.15\00:22:35.58
And I walk
through, the book store
00:22:35.62\00:22:37.45
and strange there
was no Bible in there.
00:22:37.49\00:22:40.52
There were a lot of
other strange kind of books
00:22:40.56\00:22:43.43
or what we would
call now strange,
00:22:43.46\00:22:45.03
but they were kind
of fascinating to me.
00:22:45.06\00:22:47.13
The real life of Jesus.
00:22:47.16\00:22:49.23
How to meditate?
00:22:49.26\00:22:50.60
How to go into Astro projection?
00:22:50.63\00:22:52.97
How to do all
these different things?
00:22:53.00\00:22:55.44
But, you know, no,
no, books on Jesus.
00:22:55.47\00:22:59.81
But I was far
enough into it at the time,
00:22:59.84\00:23:01.74
that, that and, you
know, who needs Bible anyway.
00:23:01.78\00:23:04.98
We are, we and the
new age are so much
00:23:05.01\00:23:07.28
smarter than everyone else.
00:23:07.32\00:23:08.65
We have more information.
00:23:08.68\00:23:10.79
And so if the Bible is
good enough for somebody else,
00:23:10.82\00:23:14.09
you know, that's fine.
00:23:14.12\00:23:15.46
You will get some--
00:23:15.49\00:23:16.83
You will learn some
good things in there.
00:23:16.86\00:23:18.43
But, we on the other
hand in the New Age movement
00:23:18.46\00:23:23.23
are so much
smarter than everybody else
00:23:23.26\00:23:25.90
and so I needed
something else that would leave
00:23:25.93\00:23:28.10
the Bible anyway,
that's what I thought.
00:23:28.14\00:23:30.71
How long-- How many years
00:23:30.74\00:23:32.07
did you stay into that
kind of world before you,
00:23:32.11\00:23:34.58
before the Lord led
you to a real discovery
00:23:34.61\00:23:38.41
of His love and of the truth?
00:23:38.45\00:23:41.55
Well, I was in
New Age for 20 years.
00:23:41.58\00:23:43.62
Wow. Long time.
00:23:43.65\00:23:44.99
And my career,
00:23:45.02\00:23:48.39
I'm really just kind of
giving the highlights here.
00:23:48.42\00:23:50.23
The synopsis here. Yeah.
00:23:50.26\00:23:51.59
We're gonna be
talking about our books
00:23:51.63\00:23:52.96
in a little while,
but my book Falling
00:23:52.99\00:23:55.63
for a Lie was published
in 1998 and it eventually,
00:23:55.66\00:24:01.47
you know, they
stopped publishing it.
00:24:01.50\00:24:03.44
And we were, we felt encouraged
to republish the book again.
00:24:03.47\00:24:08.88
So it has just been
re-released with an update,
00:24:08.91\00:24:11.11
up to, up to the
current events for today.
00:24:11.15\00:24:14.78
And so I'm giving
just kind of a highlight.
00:24:14.82\00:24:17.29
You don't want
to give the story.
00:24:17.32\00:24:18.75
Well, I want to give as
much of the story as I can,
00:24:18.79\00:24:21.19
but there's not much time
00:24:21.22\00:24:22.56
because we also
want to talk to Helen
00:24:22.59\00:24:24.36
because she has an interesting
prospective on this as well.
00:24:24.39\00:24:29.26
She's the one that wrote
the book "Falling for a Lie."
00:24:29.30\00:24:32.73
And another book
which we'll find out about.
00:24:32.77\00:24:34.50
That's right.
00:24:34.54\00:24:35.87
But I had a lot
of ups and downs.
00:24:35.90\00:24:38.84
And you would think that
life would have gotten better
00:24:38.87\00:24:42.54
and because I had although
00:24:42.58\00:24:43.91
this advanced
information and all this,
00:24:43.95\00:24:46.61
all this knowledge that
most other people didn't have,
00:24:46.65\00:24:49.02
that I knew so much more than.
00:24:49.05\00:24:51.75
And you would have though
life would have gotten better,
00:24:51.79\00:24:53.46
but it was getting worse.
00:24:53.49\00:24:55.79
I had three
marriages that came and went.
00:24:55.82\00:24:59.19
Yes.
00:24:59.23\00:25:00.56
I had some jobs
that came and went.
00:25:00.60\00:25:03.26
But every time I had
a challenge in my life,
00:25:03.30\00:25:07.40
I know now, I can look
back, God was there for me.
00:25:07.44\00:25:09.97
Amen. That's right.
00:25:10.01\00:25:11.34
But at the time I
didn't feel it and I felt like
00:25:11.37\00:25:13.07
my life was getting
worse and worse and worse.
00:25:13.11\00:25:15.81
And when my third wife
said, she wanted a divorce,
00:25:15.84\00:25:18.15
it was totally unexpected.
00:25:18.18\00:25:19.55
The first two, you
know, we had some problems.
00:25:19.58\00:25:22.25
We knew we were having problems
and tried to work them out.
00:25:22.28\00:25:25.22
But with the
third one I had no idea.
00:25:25.25\00:25:27.99
So it was, and I just lost
a job, I shouldn't have lost.
00:25:28.02\00:25:32.63
It was a very good job.
00:25:32.66\00:25:34.33
I was doing a good job and
I don't know what happened,
00:25:34.36\00:25:37.37
I have my suspicions,
but I don't know for sure.
00:25:37.40\00:25:39.97
But shortly
after I lost that job,
00:25:40.00\00:25:43.47
my wife wanted a divorce.
00:25:43.51\00:25:45.34
I went into a major tailspin.
00:25:45.37\00:25:48.38
And I just had pretty
much given up on life.
00:25:48.41\00:25:53.38
Later I got a job in Tennessee
00:25:53.42\00:25:56.75
and a woman went to work for me,
00:25:56.79\00:25:58.82
that I thought would
be wonderful in New Age
00:25:58.85\00:26:01.62
because she was smart,
you know, was very talented,
00:26:01.66\00:26:05.69
she had a great
heart for people.
00:26:05.73\00:26:08.66
So I'm gonna
make her a new ager.
00:26:08.70\00:26:11.80
So we started
talking about some things
00:26:11.83\00:26:15.70
and she invited
me to go her church.
00:26:15.74\00:26:19.21
And I said oh, all right.
00:26:19.24\00:26:21.24
You are ready to
meet the pastor, huh.
00:26:21.28\00:26:22.61
Because, you know, another
pastor, is gonna bite the dust.
00:26:22.64\00:26:28.18
And so, because nobody ever--
00:26:28.22\00:26:31.42
It's not we got
into an argument,
00:26:31.45\00:26:32.79
I don't believe in
arguments, you know,
00:26:32.82\00:26:34.32
when it comes to religion
and mostly anything else.
00:26:34.36\00:26:37.96
But when I would
talk to a pastor almost,
00:26:37.99\00:26:43.43
not almost, every time
I ever talk to a pastor,
00:26:43.47\00:26:45.47
I always almost found
something they said was wrong,
00:26:45.50\00:26:47.17
that didn't fit the Bible.
00:26:47.20\00:26:48.64
So why was this guy
gonna be any different.
00:26:48.67\00:26:50.44
Okay.
00:26:50.47\00:26:51.81
And it turned out
that this woman that worked
00:26:51.84\00:26:53.74
for me was a
Seventh-day Adventist.
00:26:53.78\00:26:56.34
Wow.
00:26:56.38\00:26:57.71
And, about the
only thing I knew,
00:26:57.75\00:27:00.18
I did know that they
went to church on Saturday,
00:27:00.22\00:27:02.72
I didn't know why.
00:27:02.75\00:27:04.09
But that's all I
knew about the church.
00:27:04.12\00:27:05.52
I didn't know
anything about the beliefs.
00:27:05.55\00:27:07.56
I didn't know
about anything else.
00:27:07.59\00:27:09.22
But I figured
pastor is a pastor, right?
00:27:09.26\00:27:11.33
I'll ask him
questions and pretty soon
00:27:11.36\00:27:13.53
he'll make a mistake and
then I'll say it to Annette,
00:27:13.56\00:27:16.16
you want to-
00:27:16.20\00:27:17.53
It was Annette by
the way, my late wife.
00:27:17.57\00:27:20.00
I gave away part
of it, but most people
00:27:20.04\00:27:21.40
already know that,
that we were married.
00:27:21.44\00:27:23.87
We eventually got married.
00:27:23.91\00:27:25.31
But I was gonna say,
00:27:25.34\00:27:28.31
why do you want to
belong to this, you know,
00:27:28.34\00:27:31.01
your pastor doesn't even
know the Bible, you know.
00:27:31.05\00:27:33.48
What makes you
think that you know it?
00:27:33.52\00:27:35.85
And he answered
every one of my questions.
00:27:35.88\00:27:38.72
He answered all of them?
Answered yes, from the Bible.
00:27:38.75\00:27:42.52
He didn't say, well,
I think it's this or,
00:27:42.56\00:27:45.29
you know, it's this
or that or whatever.
00:27:45.33\00:27:48.20
Every question I ever asked him,
00:27:48.23\00:27:50.37
he took me straight to the Bible
00:27:50.40\00:27:52.00
and here is the answer
and not only is it here,
00:27:52.03\00:27:54.80
but here it is
here, and here it is here.
00:27:54.84\00:27:58.21
And I had a
decision I had to make.
00:27:58.24\00:28:02.24
Because the last,
the last Bible study
00:28:02.28\00:28:08.72
that I had to go
through was state of the dead.
00:28:08.75\00:28:10.69
What happens when people die?
00:28:10.72\00:28:13.46
And I already knew that
00:28:13.49\00:28:14.82
because I'd
experienced former lives.
00:28:14.86\00:28:17.29
I remembered, you know,
00:28:17.33\00:28:19.59
living in different
times and certain things
00:28:19.63\00:28:21.50
that happened to
me and all of that.
00:28:21.53\00:28:22.90
So I already knew that
these people had to be wrong,
00:28:22.93\00:28:25.33
because I
remembered former lives.
00:28:25.37\00:28:27.44
So the soul had to be immortal.
00:28:27.47\00:28:29.94
And by the time I
studied the Bible,
00:28:29.97\00:28:33.54
and his name was
Pastor John Riggs,
00:28:33.58\00:28:35.91
great teacher, great pastor
and I admire him very much.
00:28:35.94\00:28:41.98
By the time he took
me through the Bible,
00:28:42.02\00:28:43.89
I began to realize, oops.
00:28:43.92\00:28:46.92
The Bible doesn't say
anything about the eternal soul
00:28:46.96\00:28:50.96
or the immortal soul.
00:28:50.99\00:28:52.39
Or the former
lives. Yeah, right.
00:28:52.43\00:28:54.56
And so I had a
decision I had to make.
00:28:54.60\00:28:57.00
And I couldn't see
any other decision.
00:28:57.03\00:29:00.44
Wow.
00:29:00.47\00:29:01.80
Than to except the Bible
as what the Bible has to say.
00:29:01.84\00:29:04.94
You were stunted huh. Yeah.
00:29:04.97\00:29:06.31
Instead of you stunting
the pastor and you were like...
00:29:06.34\00:29:08.68
Yeah, right.
00:29:08.71\00:29:10.05
And so I have been
Seventh-day Adventist
00:29:10.08\00:29:15.28
since I was baptized in 1992.
00:29:15.32\00:29:18.72
And I'm very pleased to be
working in the Lords ministry.
00:29:18.75\00:29:24.13
Amen.
00:29:24.16\00:29:25.49
Reaching people and
many people are facing
00:29:25.53\00:29:29.43
the same things that I faced.
00:29:29.46\00:29:30.80
That's right.
00:29:30.83\00:29:32.17
Or they have a family
member, a friend, a loved one
00:29:32.20\00:29:33.67
or whatever, that has
fallen for the lie of New Age.
00:29:33.70\00:29:39.47
And I think
it's really important
00:29:39.51\00:29:41.44
because the Lord expects us
to look for Him, to find Him.
00:29:41.48\00:29:46.31
Yes. That's right.
00:29:46.35\00:29:47.68
It's not-- We
don't just stand around
00:29:47.72\00:29:49.45
and all of a sudden,
you know, we gain knowledge
00:29:49.48\00:29:53.46
and all the
information just comes to us.
00:29:53.49\00:29:55.99
The Lord teaches
us as we go along.
00:29:56.02\00:29:57.86
But we've to
have the right heart.
00:29:57.89\00:29:59.33
Amen.
00:29:59.36\00:30:00.70
And there are
many people in New Age.
00:30:00.73\00:30:03.16
There are many
people in Sunday churches
00:30:03.20\00:30:06.70
that don't know what the Bible
says about things like this.
00:30:06.74\00:30:09.80
And there are people in
Sunday churches to think
00:30:09.84\00:30:12.37
it's okay to go into life
regression and to self hypnosis
00:30:12.41\00:30:16.88
and then believe
in reincarnations.
00:30:16.91\00:30:19.18
Think that's all okay and
they think it's the Bible,
00:30:19.21\00:30:21.62
but it's really not.
00:30:21.65\00:30:22.98
So I'm very pleased
to be on the forefront
00:30:23.02\00:30:26.09
of the ministry and
start telling people
00:30:26.12\00:30:27.89
about the Bible and
the truth of the Bible.
00:30:27.92\00:30:29.82
Counteracting, go ahead. Yeah.
00:30:29.86\00:30:31.19
And also you didn't
mention this, but I will.
00:30:31.23\00:30:34.23
You were the number one
DJ in America at one time.
00:30:34.26\00:30:38.23
Is that true, Jay? Yes, I was.
00:30:38.27\00:30:40.17
I know he was.
00:30:40.20\00:30:42.70
And we had the number one
00:30:42.74\00:30:44.44
radio station in all of America.
00:30:44.47\00:30:46.57
This was in
Tennessee at a radio station,
00:30:46.61\00:30:48.21
I worked in
Johnson City, Tennessee.
00:30:48.24\00:30:49.88
Wow.
00:30:49.91\00:30:51.25
We had the highest ratings
00:30:51.28\00:30:52.61
of any radio station in America.
00:30:52.65\00:30:53.98
Wow.
00:30:54.02\00:30:55.35
And I was in the
afternoon program
00:30:55.38\00:30:58.59
from like 3 to 7, we
call it afternoon drive.
00:30:58.62\00:31:01.59
And, so some-- I think
00:31:01.62\00:31:05.06
the Lord blessed my work.
00:31:05.09\00:31:06.76
You know some people say, well,
00:31:06.80\00:31:08.13
but that was rock n' roll music.
00:31:08.16\00:31:09.50
Is the Lord gonna
bless rock n' roll.
00:31:09.53\00:31:11.27
I don't know, but I
think He blessed me.
00:31:11.30\00:31:13.07
I think the Lord has
been with me all of my life
00:31:13.10\00:31:16.50
and I can look back on that.
00:31:16.54\00:31:18.57
Very briefly let me say,
00:31:18.61\00:31:20.58
'cause I don't want
take time from Helen,
00:31:20.61\00:31:22.14
she has a very
interesting story here.
00:31:22.18\00:31:24.48
But many of our viewers
and listeners know of Annette,
00:31:24.51\00:31:30.55
she's the one that
worked for me in Tennessee.
00:31:30.59\00:31:34.96
That took me to her pastor
and she was a great example.
00:31:34.99\00:31:39.76
She helped me study as well.
But eventually we got married.
00:31:39.79\00:31:45.63
Yes. I had sworn off marriage.
00:31:45.67\00:31:47.60
I was never gonna get married
again after three failures.
00:31:47.64\00:31:50.11
I said, you know, who
needs it. It was done.
00:31:50.14\00:31:51.94
But she was a wonderful woman
00:31:51.97\00:31:54.74
and I feel in love with
her and we were married,
00:31:54.78\00:31:58.11
and we were
married for 15 ½ years.
00:31:58.15\00:32:00.98
And she is now asleep in Jesus,
awaiting the resurrection.
00:32:01.02\00:32:05.75
And it was a
wonderful experience.
00:32:05.79\00:32:09.76
I praise God for her
and for what He had done.
00:32:09.79\00:32:15.80
And He's blessed me
with another marriage
00:32:15.83\00:32:20.14
and a woman that I met
from, our Russian ministry.
00:32:20.17\00:32:25.47
And the Lord has
just totally blessed me
00:32:25.51\00:32:28.01
and I praise Him for that.
00:32:28.04\00:32:30.21
But everything
gets down to our heart.
00:32:30.25\00:32:33.25
That's right.
00:32:33.28\00:32:34.62
And our heart
determines our salvation
00:32:34.65\00:32:38.75
or where we're going to go.
00:32:38.79\00:32:40.19
And for the people who
have a heart for the Lord,
00:32:40.22\00:32:43.73
a heart for the truth,
the Lord wants to reach
00:32:43.76\00:32:46.96
and I'm pleased
to be a part of that.
00:32:47.00\00:32:48.43
Amen.
00:32:48.46\00:32:49.80
You know, the Lord also
called you to share your story
00:32:49.83\00:32:52.63
and I want a segway on that
because I want to ask Helen,
00:32:52.67\00:32:55.54
how did you find out about Jay?
00:32:55.57\00:32:58.81
He gave his testimony
at a church in the area
00:32:58.84\00:33:01.41
where we both
lived at that point,
00:33:01.44\00:33:03.01
but we had known
each other at all.
00:33:03.04\00:33:05.38
And my husband and I
went to that testimony
00:33:05.41\00:33:09.78
and I found it very fascinating.
00:33:09.82\00:33:11.32
I appreciated his
story and we were headed
00:33:11.35\00:33:16.86
out of the church and
I had this impression,
00:33:16.89\00:33:20.00
you ought to offer
to write Jay's story.
00:33:20.03\00:33:24.40
And I felt, what?
00:33:24.43\00:33:27.04
I don't write books, I
just write short things.
00:33:27.07\00:33:30.67
And we were going
through the foyer to head home
00:33:30.71\00:33:35.14
and again that impression
came, you ought to offer
00:33:35.18\00:33:38.08
to write Jay's
story and I giggled.
00:33:38.11\00:33:41.75
And my husband said,
huh, what's that about?
00:33:41.78\00:33:46.69
Oh, nothing I said.
00:33:46.72\00:33:48.29
And I fought that
impression for literally months.
00:33:48.32\00:33:53.16
And in fact it was
more then a year later
00:33:53.19\00:33:55.80
before we
actually ended up meeting.
00:33:55.83\00:34:00.04
And God kept talking to
me, but it got less frequent
00:34:00.07\00:34:06.37
and less frequent
and then some friends
00:34:06.41\00:34:12.05
that we had
known in North Dakota
00:34:12.08\00:34:14.88
were visiting Jay and
his wife and daughter.
00:34:14.92\00:34:20.16
And at the time Jay
had written his story,
00:34:20.19\00:34:23.43
got it back from a publisher,
they weren't interested
00:34:23.46\00:34:26.03
and he was wondering
what do I do with this,
00:34:26.06\00:34:29.56
and he told them, he
had just recited that day.
00:34:29.60\00:34:33.44
He told them and they
said, well, we know a writer
00:34:33.47\00:34:37.74
and gave him my phone number.
00:34:37.77\00:34:41.14
So when he called
my telephone number
00:34:41.18\00:34:44.08
and I answered the
phone and I'm thinking,
00:34:44.11\00:34:47.68
this voice, I
recognize it, but where?
00:34:47.72\00:34:50.85
I couldn't and then he
said his name and I thought,
00:34:50.89\00:34:53.82
oh, no, where did
he get my phone number?
00:34:53.86\00:34:56.99
'Cause you been running
from this very assignment
00:34:57.03\00:34:58.89
that God had pressing you to do.
00:34:58.93\00:35:01.03
Yes.
00:35:01.06\00:35:03.53
But anyway, long story
short, I kept fighting God
00:35:03.57\00:35:07.14
until he made it
so very, very clear
00:35:07.17\00:35:10.31
that this was indeed
his assignment for me.
00:35:10.34\00:35:13.54
And we only have time
to touch on highlights,
00:35:13.58\00:35:17.15
but I can say that
viewers can get the story
00:35:17.18\00:35:20.98
behind the story
off of my website.
00:35:21.02\00:35:23.22
It's a free thing
that they can get off.
00:35:23.25\00:35:24.95
We're gonna give the information
00:35:24.99\00:35:26.32
before the program is done,
00:35:26.35\00:35:27.69
so that they can
get the full story.
00:35:27.72\00:35:29.12
Now you have just
given a snippet of yours
00:35:29.16\00:35:30.66
and truly timed us and allow
us to get deeply into yours.
00:35:30.69\00:35:34.16
But you've
accepted the assignment.
00:35:34.20\00:35:35.60
I accepted the
assignment and I started off
00:35:35.63\00:35:38.63
and interviewing Jay and Annette
00:35:38.67\00:35:41.97
and trying to organize
it and get going on it.
00:35:42.00\00:35:48.41
But it just seemed like
00:35:48.44\00:35:49.78
there were so many interruptions
00:35:49.81\00:35:51.15
and I started
having health problems
00:35:51.18\00:35:52.65
and all kinds of
strange things were happening.
00:35:52.68\00:35:55.15
And then at one
point, one morning I was--
00:35:55.18\00:35:59.05
I needed to
write the book proposal
00:35:59.09\00:36:01.39
which is just a
document to tell a publisher,
00:36:01.42\00:36:06.13
why you think the
book is important,
00:36:06.16\00:36:07.63
what the book is about,
00:36:07.66\00:36:09.06
why they are the right
publisher to publish it.
00:36:09.10\00:36:10.87
You know, a sales document
essential to the publisher.
00:36:10.90\00:36:14.90
And I worked really hard
on it one day and that night
00:36:14.94\00:36:19.14
I turned the
computer off and thought,
00:36:19.17\00:36:21.38
if tomorrow goes
as well as today did,
00:36:21.41\00:36:23.51
I should have the rough
draft of the proposal done
00:36:23.55\00:36:26.21
by tomorrow evening.
00:36:26.25\00:36:28.12
Well, the next
morning I went in,
00:36:28.15\00:36:29.52
I pushed the power
switch on the computer
00:36:29.55\00:36:32.99
and nothing happened.
00:36:33.02\00:36:34.66
Which was a little
strange because it was a,
00:36:34.69\00:36:36.69
almost brand new computer,
it was like four months old.
00:36:36.73\00:36:39.13
And I thought, oh,
00:36:39.16\00:36:40.50
I must have a
bumped the plug some place.
00:36:40.53\00:36:42.33
So I checked the
plugs there on the desk
00:36:42.36\00:36:45.00
and pushed the power switch
again and nothing happened.
00:36:45.03\00:36:50.51
I check all the--
00:36:50.54\00:36:52.94
You know, crawled onto the
desk and checked all the plugs.
00:36:52.97\00:36:55.38
I checked the
manual, I did everything
00:36:55.41\00:36:57.85
I could think off
and it would not come on.
00:36:57.88\00:37:02.42
And I thought, what is going on?
00:37:02.45\00:37:04.95
And I just, I
prayed, God, what's going on?
00:37:04.99\00:37:09.19
What am I supposed to do?
00:37:09.22\00:37:12.13
And this thought came
and I remembered a text
00:37:12.16\00:37:14.86
in the Bible that talked
about our adversary the devil
00:37:14.90\00:37:18.40
who has a roar--
Coming has a roaring lion,
00:37:18.43\00:37:20.97
seeking whom he may devour.
00:37:21.00\00:37:23.10
And somehow it just all
began to fit into place.
00:37:23.14\00:37:28.81
And I just immediately
went to my knees and asked God,
00:37:28.84\00:37:32.81
is there anything in my life
00:37:32.85\00:37:35.55
that is opening a
door to the devil?
00:37:35.58\00:37:38.39
And asked for cleansing,
prayed for his wisdom,
00:37:38.42\00:37:43.36
prayed for him to
totally indwell me
00:37:43.39\00:37:46.23
and I ended my
prayer, simply, God,
00:37:46.26\00:37:51.63
if I need to call
every parament that's fine,
00:37:51.67\00:37:54.44
but if this is just the
devil trying to slow progress
00:37:54.47\00:37:57.74
on this project,
would You take care of him?
00:37:57.77\00:38:00.68
Wow. Wow.
00:38:00.71\00:38:02.04
And I got up from my knees,
00:38:02.08\00:38:03.41
turned around and
push the power switch.
00:38:03.45\00:38:06.98
And the computer lit up.
00:38:07.02\00:38:08.35
What?
00:38:08.38\00:38:10.15
And the startup sounds and
the computer was just fine.
00:38:10.19\00:38:13.76
I had not lost anything,
all of research and so forth.
00:38:13.79\00:38:17.53
And all of a sudden I
began to fit things together.
00:38:17.56\00:38:20.86
And the fact
that right after this
00:38:20.90\00:38:23.67
I had started on Jay's story.
00:38:23.70\00:38:26.63
I had gone for a
regular routine physical.
00:38:26.67\00:38:29.07
I'd always been very healthy
00:38:29.10\00:38:31.21
and instead of
getting a post card back
00:38:31.24\00:38:33.94
from the doctor's appointment
saying, everything is normal
00:38:33.98\00:38:36.51
which I was used to getting.
00:38:36.54\00:38:38.08
The doctor called
one evening and said,
00:38:38.11\00:38:40.55
we've got a little problem here.
00:38:40.58\00:38:43.92
Your lab work shows,
it's just slightly abnormal,
00:38:43.95\00:38:48.79
but what I'm concerned about it,
00:38:48.82\00:38:50.16
it shows the profile of a
tumor on the pituitary gland.
00:38:50.19\00:38:55.96
And it's very
slight at this point,
00:38:56.00\00:38:59.80
so there really isn't
anything to do right now,
00:38:59.83\00:39:01.50
but it's be sure to
comeback in six months,
00:39:01.54\00:39:04.14
and let's recheck this.
00:39:04.17\00:39:06.27
Well, in the meantime,
of course that's on my mind
00:39:06.31\00:39:09.84
and I tried to
ignore it, but you know,
00:39:09.88\00:39:11.85
it's hard to ignore
having a tumor possibly growing
00:39:11.88\00:39:16.22
at the base of your brain.
00:39:16.25\00:39:17.62
That is there.
00:39:17.65\00:39:19.32
Anyway.
00:39:19.35\00:39:21.86
But I'd also been
having throat problems.
00:39:21.89\00:39:24.06
So I went to a throat specialist
00:39:24.09\00:39:26.66
and he put his fiber
optic camera down my throat
00:39:26.70\00:39:31.40
and gave me the
you know, tour guide
00:39:31.43\00:39:34.07
of what he was
seeing as if we were both
00:39:34.10\00:39:36.07
looking at the
computer monitor there and.
00:39:36.10\00:39:39.04
And then all of
a sudden he said,
00:39:39.07\00:39:40.41
ah-huh, here's the
problem and I had four nodules
00:39:40.44\00:39:43.11
that he
photographed on my vocal chords.
00:39:43.14\00:39:46.05
And...
00:39:46.08\00:39:49.88
You know, after he
looked it over well,
00:39:49.92\00:39:51.72
he took out the
camera and the tubing
00:39:51.75\00:39:54.12
and I could have
lived happily a lifetime
00:39:54.16\00:39:58.16
without hearing
his, his prescription,
00:39:58.19\00:40:01.26
which was total vocal rest.
00:40:01.30\00:40:04.07
Don't talk?
00:40:04.10\00:40:05.43
Don't talk. You
know what that's like.
00:40:05.47\00:40:06.80
And especially don't whisper
or don't talk on the telephone,
00:40:06.84\00:40:10.21
'cause that's even
worse on your throat
00:40:10.24\00:40:12.14
than regular
talking and no singing.
00:40:12.17\00:40:14.44
And I had been a singer as well.
00:40:14.48\00:40:16.31
I know.
00:40:16.34\00:40:18.88
Sounds like you
know what that's like.
00:40:18.91\00:40:20.88
He's been through that.
00:40:20.92\00:40:22.25
It's not easy to do. No.
00:40:22.28\00:40:24.05
Anyway, so all this--
00:40:24.09\00:40:26.55
As I'm thinking about
the computer coming on,
00:40:26.59\00:40:28.76
all of this is
fitting in and I'm thinking,
00:40:28.79\00:40:33.09
ah, maybe this is all.
00:40:33.13\00:40:37.07
I mean, we're in this
battle and first I praise God,
00:40:37.10\00:40:41.70
that the computer
came on, secondly,
00:40:41.74\00:40:44.84
fear cut in and I'm thinking...
00:40:44.87\00:40:48.61
If the devil will stop stooping,
00:40:48.64\00:40:51.28
will stoop to
stopping computers,
00:40:51.31\00:40:53.65
what else might he do?
00:40:53.68\00:40:55.65
Well, a few moths later,
00:40:55.68\00:40:57.39
my husband who
has his own business
00:40:57.42\00:40:59.12
and I work for
his business, fell.
00:40:59.15\00:41:02.82
Actually I was still
on this total vocal rest
00:41:02.86\00:41:05.96
and the telephone
rang and I just waited
00:41:05.99\00:41:07.73
for the answering
machine to pick it up.
00:41:07.76\00:41:09.96
And a very pained
voice on the other end said,
00:41:10.00\00:41:14.20
Helen, are you home?
00:41:14.24\00:41:16.37
Please pick up the
phone. I need the doctor.
00:41:16.40\00:41:20.28
And I thought,
is that my husband?
00:41:20.31\00:41:22.91
I didn't even know for sure.
00:41:22.94\00:41:24.71
But I picked up the phone
00:41:24.75\00:41:26.68
and said,
hello, what's going on?
00:41:26.72\00:41:30.79
I fell, I think
I broke both legs.
00:41:30.82\00:41:34.89
Anyway long story short
00:41:34.92\00:41:36.93
and there's a lot more involved,
00:41:36.96\00:41:38.53
but long story short.
00:41:38.56\00:41:40.70
He had broken a
bone in his left foot,
00:41:40.73\00:41:43.00
crushed his right
ankle very, very severely.
00:41:43.03\00:41:46.27
The doctor didn't think
00:41:46.30\00:41:47.64
he would be able
to go back to work.
00:41:47.67\00:41:49.74
And...
00:41:49.77\00:41:51.81
In that one slip of a ladder,
00:41:54.44\00:41:56.78
we had lost our total family
income since I worked for him.
00:41:56.81\00:42:00.42
Oh, yeah. Wow.
00:42:00.45\00:42:01.78
And had no guarantee
00:42:01.82\00:42:04.19
that we were ever
going to get an income back.
00:42:04.22\00:42:07.39
Anyway, I went off the
vocal rest for a little while.
00:42:07.42\00:42:12.59
I was trying to help my husband.
00:42:12.63\00:42:14.56
After he'd been laying in bed
for sometime with his feet up,
00:42:14.60\00:42:20.60
and wheelchair,
anytime he was out of the bed.
00:42:20.64\00:42:25.41
I one day was
walking down our hallway,
00:42:25.44\00:42:27.78
with not so much as
a shadow to trip over
00:42:27.81\00:42:31.11
and I felt flat on my
face and hurt my ankle.
00:42:31.15\00:42:34.88
Oh, no.
00:42:34.92\00:42:36.25
And I'm thinking oh, no.
00:42:36.28\00:42:38.95
And I picked myself up,
hobbled to the refrigerator,
00:42:38.99\00:42:42.69
got ice, hobbled
to the heighted bed,
00:42:42.72\00:42:45.99
where my husband slept
00:42:46.03\00:42:47.53
because we couldn't get his
wheelchair into the bedroom.
00:42:47.56\00:42:52.13
And there we lay,
three of the four feet
00:42:52.17\00:42:56.04
in our household, up on pillows.
00:42:56.07\00:42:58.17
Oh, no.
00:42:58.21\00:42:59.67
And I turned and
looked at my husband,
00:42:59.71\00:43:02.68
he turned and looked at me
00:43:02.71\00:43:04.61
and we both just
burst out laughing--
00:43:04.65\00:43:07.05
Like, what are we--
What's going on here?
00:43:07.08\00:43:08.42
What is going on?
00:43:08.45\00:43:10.52
Anyway, long story short,
00:43:10.55\00:43:14.56
the next day I
went to the doctor
00:43:14.59\00:43:15.92
'cause the ankle was
already blue, and purple
00:43:15.96\00:43:17.59
and green, very colorful.
00:43:17.63\00:43:19.46
And fortunately it
was a just a bad sprain.
00:43:19.49\00:43:24.33
Praise the Lord. Good.
00:43:24.37\00:43:25.70
Praise the Lord, is right.
00:43:25.73\00:43:27.67
However the doctor
said, you look really tired
00:43:27.70\00:43:31.01
and I had been
just really overtired.
00:43:31.04\00:43:34.78
And I was beyond the six
moths because of the fact
00:43:34.81\00:43:39.18
that I was taking
care of my husband,
00:43:39.21\00:43:40.62
I just didn't have much time.
00:43:40.65\00:43:42.88
And-- And so the doctor said,
00:43:42.92\00:43:49.62
you're overdue on your lab work.
00:43:49.66\00:43:51.39
Oh.
00:43:51.43\00:43:52.76
Have the blood drawn today.
00:43:52.79\00:43:55.96
Well, when I got lab results
back the doctor called again
00:43:56.00\00:44:00.64
and said, it's
grossly abnormal this time,
00:44:00.67\00:44:03.44
it is definitely the profile
of the tumor on the pituitary.
00:44:03.47\00:44:07.11
And that started
another whole waiting period,
00:44:07.14\00:44:09.54
the testing period
and just a waiting period
00:44:09.58\00:44:14.18
and waiting on God.
00:44:14.22\00:44:16.48
Yeah.
00:44:16.52\00:44:18.35
I decided to fast
and pray for healing,
00:44:18.39\00:44:21.22
but then I realized
what one of the lepers said.
00:44:21.26\00:44:28.06
You can heal me if You will.
00:44:28.10\00:44:30.87
And I realized I needed to
be able to pray for God's will.
00:44:30.90\00:44:34.84
Amen.
00:44:34.87\00:44:36.20
I had an opinion
about what God should do.
00:44:36.24\00:44:37.87
Right.
00:44:37.91\00:44:39.24
But I needed to be able to pray
00:44:39.27\00:44:40.81
for His will
and truly mean that.
00:44:40.84\00:44:42.84
That's right.
00:44:42.88\00:44:44.21
And we had a real
showdown, God and I.
00:44:44.25\00:44:47.15
And that's all,
it's in the book,
00:44:47.18\00:44:48.98
the process that I went
though to come to the point
00:44:49.02\00:44:53.42
that I could truly
wish for God's will
00:44:53.46\00:44:58.19
and pray in
confidence for His healing,
00:44:58.23\00:45:01.80
in His time and in His way,
00:45:01.83\00:45:04.60
whether it was
immediate with the miracle,
00:45:04.63\00:45:07.04
overtime with the
medical intervention
00:45:07.07\00:45:10.81
or at the resurrection.
00:45:10.84\00:45:12.71
And I knew at the
resurrection I would be healed
00:45:12.74\00:45:15.51
because no one's
going to heaven with tumors
00:45:15.54\00:45:18.45
and any kind time of malady.
00:45:18.48\00:45:20.52
Anyway it was a long waiting
period and let me just say,
00:45:20.55\00:45:27.49
some of the
things that really helped
00:45:27.52\00:45:29.12
during this waiting period.
00:45:29.16\00:45:31.33
And I've kind
of-- I've put together
00:45:31.36\00:45:33.70
with the song
"He's Able" "He's Able"
00:45:33.73\00:45:38.30
"He's Able" "He's
Able to see me through".
00:45:38.33\00:45:41.00
And A-B-L-E, some of the things
that just helped me so much
00:45:41.04\00:45:46.57
during that time and any
body else who's having trials,
00:45:46.61\00:45:49.78
you need to-- If you
need to renew your mind
00:45:49.81\00:45:52.18
and be thinking
on things of God,
00:45:52.21\00:45:54.72
the A stands for Assurances.
00:45:54.75\00:45:56.99
Okay.
00:45:57.02\00:45:58.35
All kinds of
assurances. It could be a hymn.
00:45:58.39\00:46:01.29
I mean how can you think
the words of a mighty fortress
00:46:01.32\00:46:06.26
or you know some of
these wonderful hymns
00:46:06.29\00:46:08.56
and be thinking negatively.
00:46:08.60\00:46:10.47
Assurances
quips and quotes like,
00:46:10.50\00:46:13.50
I think of one
that somebody gave me.
00:46:13.54\00:46:18.14
For peace of mind, retire
as manager of the universe.
00:46:18.17\00:46:23.95
You know, just
those little things
00:46:23.98\00:46:26.01
that remind you that
you're not in control.
00:46:26.05\00:46:28.92
That's right, retire.
00:46:28.95\00:46:30.29
All kinds of
assurances, the assurances,
00:46:30.32\00:46:32.55
chords and notes
that people would send
00:46:32.59\00:46:34.26
that they were praying for us.
00:46:34.29\00:46:35.62
That's right.
00:46:35.66\00:46:36.99
All kinds of assurances.
00:46:37.03\00:46:38.36
The second one, the B, able,
A- B- L- E, the B is for Bible.
00:46:38.39\00:46:44.63
The Bible promises
and I about wore out
00:46:44.67\00:46:48.84
a packet of Bible promises
00:46:48.87\00:46:51.11
that I had made up just
copied them on to little cards
00:46:51.14\00:46:54.48
and as I memorized them,
those Bible promises gave me
00:46:54.51\00:46:58.81
such assurance and
just memorizing them,
00:46:58.85\00:47:01.92
but learning to
apply them word by word
00:47:01.95\00:47:04.95
and really do mental images.
00:47:04.99\00:47:08.46
Do different
things that made them
00:47:08.49\00:47:10.96
very real and
practical for my life today.
00:47:10.99\00:47:13.90
And, with the B
also the Bible stories,
00:47:13.93\00:47:17.20
the miracle
stories in the Bible.
00:47:17.23\00:47:19.20
Oh, they are so
many and I loved to tell
00:47:19.23\00:47:21.50
some of them today
00:47:21.54\00:47:22.87
with the meaning that,
oh, this God is so good.
00:47:22.90\00:47:24.44
Is that in your
book? Is that in your book?
00:47:24.47\00:47:25.81
Yeah, they are. It
is in my book, yes.
00:47:25.84\00:47:27.84
And the L? And the
L, the lives of others.
00:47:27.88\00:47:31.21
I mean when the
read the stories of--
00:47:31.25\00:47:34.78
or you know, just many stories
00:47:34.82\00:47:36.82
of how God has led
another people's lives.
00:47:36.85\00:47:39.95
And the stories of
friends who would share
00:47:39.99\00:47:43.66
their testimonies
can be so encouraging.
00:47:43.69\00:47:47.83
And then the E
is for experience.
00:47:47.86\00:47:51.93
We have nothing to
fear for the future
00:47:51.97\00:47:53.74
expect as we forget how
God has led us in the past.
00:47:53.77\00:47:57.11
And as we
remembered as my husband and I
00:47:57.14\00:48:00.68
related these
things, how God had let us
00:48:00.71\00:48:03.11
in the past and
encouraged us to go on.
00:48:03.14\00:48:05.68
So if you're in
God's waiting room,
00:48:05.71\00:48:08.85
spend time
remembering that God is able.
00:48:08.88\00:48:13.36
That's right. To
carry you though.
00:48:13.39\00:48:16.42
You know, one thing I
want to point out because,
00:48:16.46\00:48:19.13
you know, time is our
enemy at the end of the day.
00:48:19.16\00:48:21.50
But what I want
remind our audience is that,
00:48:21.53\00:48:24.00
the Lord allowed
you both to connect
00:48:24.03\00:48:25.83
to go through a journey
and both of these journeys
00:48:25.87\00:48:28.64
while ending on
appraise the Lord,
00:48:28.67\00:48:31.67
both were, both were replete
with spiritualist attacks.
00:48:31.71\00:48:36.85
You know, Jay experienced that.
00:48:36.88\00:48:38.25
You experienced that
00:48:38.28\00:48:39.61
and I think one
of the natural things
00:48:39.65\00:48:40.98
as why you shied away
from this because you thought,
00:48:41.02\00:48:43.72
if I heard correctly
what he was talking about,
00:48:43.75\00:48:45.95
I don't want to be
involved in that at all.
00:48:45.99\00:48:47.92
But God threw it all,
wanted to let you know
00:48:47.96\00:48:51.06
that the
experience of God often goes
00:48:51.09\00:48:53.96
and gets deeper
when we encounter things
00:48:54.00\00:48:56.77
that we're reminded, we
can not control, all right.
00:48:56.80\00:48:59.27
Yes, yes.
00:48:59.30\00:49:00.64
And so, so you
grew stronger in that.
00:49:00.67\00:49:02.60
As you grew
stronger coming out of that.
00:49:02.64\00:49:04.74
Yes.
00:49:04.77\00:49:06.11
Helen the name of your book?
00:49:06.14\00:49:08.51
"My God is
Bigger". That's right.
00:49:08.54\00:49:10.48
And He is bigger
than any circumstance,
00:49:10.51\00:49:13.62
any situation, any
challenge, any challenger.
00:49:13.65\00:49:17.59
God did many,
many miracles for us.
00:49:17.62\00:49:20.99
But if you can quantify
miracles and I'm not sure
00:49:21.02\00:49:23.76
that you can, but if you could,
00:49:23.79\00:49:26.29
probably the biggest one
was when He gave us peace
00:49:26.33\00:49:30.27
in the midst of a storm.
00:49:30.30\00:49:31.63
That's right.
00:49:31.67\00:49:33.00
And that, the healings,
00:49:33.03\00:49:35.64
He did miracles
just to keep us alive,
00:49:35.67\00:49:39.21
but He also gave us
peace when we didn't know
00:49:39.24\00:49:43.24
we're gonna alive or not.
00:49:43.28\00:49:44.61
That's right.
00:49:44.65\00:49:45.98
Now how is your husband today?
00:49:46.01\00:49:47.35
My husband today,
though he had be assured
00:49:47.38\00:49:49.58
that he would need a
replacement ankle probably
00:49:49.62\00:49:51.69
within five to eight years.
00:49:51.72\00:49:53.42
It's more then a decade later.
00:49:53.46\00:49:55.52
He is still, actually more
then a decade and a half later.
00:49:55.56\00:49:58.59
And he's still
on the same ankle.
00:49:58.63\00:50:00.16
He was able to return to work.
00:50:00.20\00:50:02.13
Amen.
00:50:02.16\00:50:03.93
We were able to have, to
keep eating and paying bills
00:50:03.97\00:50:07.20
which is very nice.
00:50:07.24\00:50:09.24
Of course.
00:50:09.27\00:50:10.61
And God has just
blessed in so many ways.
00:50:10.64\00:50:13.58
I am, though I
can't say I relished going
00:50:13.61\00:50:16.68
through the experience.
00:50:16.71\00:50:18.15
I'm thrilled with the growth
00:50:18.18\00:50:21.02
and I wouldn't
trade it for anything.
00:50:21.05\00:50:22.38
Amen.
00:50:22.42\00:50:23.75
And your book, Jay,
00:50:23.79\00:50:25.12
what's the title
of your book again?
00:50:25.15\00:50:26.49
It's "Falling for a Lie."
00:50:26.52\00:50:27.86
"Falling for a Lie." Yes.
00:50:27.89\00:50:29.22
And you know, I
want to give our audience
00:50:29.26\00:50:30.59
an opportunity
with the address roll
00:50:30.63\00:50:31.96
that's gonna come
right on the heels of,
00:50:31.99\00:50:33.70
of the cover
that you've just seen.
00:50:33.73\00:50:36.63
The information that
you're gonna receive right now
00:50:36.67\00:50:38.63
will give you an opportunity
to contact both Jay and Helen.
00:50:38.67\00:50:42.17
If you like to have them
come and share their story,
00:50:42.20\00:50:44.74
or even have
access to both of these
00:50:44.77\00:50:46.74
wonderful works
of God's blessing.
00:50:46.78\00:50:48.91
Here's the
information that you need.
00:50:48.94\00:50:50.51
If you would like to
learn how you can receive
00:50:53.11\00:50:55.12
the books "Falling for a
Lie" and "My God is Bigger"
00:50:55.15\00:50:58.69
then you can write
to 3ABN, PO Box 220,
00:50:58.72\00:51:02.89
West Frankfort, Illinois 62896.
00:51:02.92\00:51:06.26
You can call (618) 627-4651.
00:51:06.29\00:51:11.20
Or you can order them online
through our store at 3ABN.org.
00:51:11.23\00:51:16.91
You can contact Jay
at jay.christian@3abn.org
00:51:16.94\00:51:21.64
or visit Helens
webpage for her events,
00:51:21.68\00:51:24.51
books or to contact
her, at helenheavirland.com.
00:51:24.55\00:51:28.58
That's helenheavirland.com.
00:51:28.62\00:51:34.36