I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Removing pain
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Lord, let my words
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Heal a heart that hurts
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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I want to spend my life
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Mending broken people
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Hello and welcome to 3ABN today.
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My name is C.A Murray
and allow me once again
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to thank you for
sharing just a little of your
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no doubt busy day with us.
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So thank you for your prayers
00:01:16.05\00:01:17.55
and your
support of this ministry
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and I'm excited
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for number of
reasons today's program.
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First of all
because we got an old friend
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and may I
shouldn't say old friend
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because his hair is gray
and his beard is a little gray,
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so I'll stay
friend of long standing.
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We like to have our good
friend and this is Dwight Hall,
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Mr. Remnant Publication
has been in many, many times.
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Looks a little different
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because he's carrying little
more facial hair than before
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but I think he
looks very distinguish.
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Dwight, good to have you here.
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It's great to be here, C.A.
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Yeah. Great to be here.
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Good to have you
and then new friend,
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sometimes you meet people
as you meet them you just--
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you just like 'em.
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And I want to
get a picture of this
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clean cut good looking guy.
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This is Greg
Emelander Emelander.
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Emelander. Right.
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Emelander, look
at that face because
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it's a good looking guy,
he's clean cut, clean shave
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and except for
the little goatee.
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But this clean cut good
looking guy hides a past
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that we're gonna unpack
here in the next few minutes
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that bespeak the
healing power of Jesus Christ,
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dare I say that?
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The power of
Christ to change stuff
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when your life is
going one direction,
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Christ can reach in
and change that life.
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And he's got a great testimony,
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so I want you to pull up
close to the television set
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because he's got
something to say.
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And I think will encourage
you and let you know that
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that you're never too far gone
for Jesus to come and get you.
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Amen. Amen.
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And then he and
Dwight got together
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and they're doing
some great things for Lord.
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So that's our program for today.
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You got to stay by
because this is good stuff
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and you don't want to miss this.
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You may want to even
tap the record button
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on your DVD player
because he's got a great story.
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This may be a DVD
that you want to get
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because he's got a lot to say
and man good to have to here.
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Thank you. We appreciate it.
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We've talked a little bit
and he's got me kind of excited
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just good stuff.
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And I said before,
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Dwight Hall doing great things
for the Lord for a long time
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and we're glad to have you back,
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we really are.
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Before we jump into that,
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I think I'll get this
music in and out of the way
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because I'm really excited.
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The King's Heralds are here
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and really great ministry
for many, many, many years
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and they're gonna be singing a,
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an arrangement of
an old Negro spiritual
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called steal away.
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Steal away
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Steal away
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Steal away to Jesus
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Steal away
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Steal away home
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I ain't got long to stay here
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My Lord, He calls me
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He calls me by the thunder
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I ain't got long to stay here
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Steal away
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Steal away
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Steal away to Jesus
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Steal away
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Steal away home
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I ain't got long to stay here
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Green trees are bending
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Po' sinner stand a-trembling
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The trumpet sounds
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The trumpet sounds
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The trumpet sounds
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Within-a my soul
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I ain't got long to stay here
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Steal away
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Steal away
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Steal away to Jesus
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Steal away
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Steal away home
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I ain't got long to stay here
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Steal away
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Steal away
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Steal away
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Thank you, King's
Heralds, that arrangement
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I know it's Russell Hospedales,
the baritone for that group,
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a good buddy of
mine and well done,
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King's Heralds, steal away.
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Now my guests
are Greg Emelander,
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got it right this
time, Dwight Hall,
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gentlemen good to have you here.
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Now, Dwight I've
got to apologize to you
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because we're
gonna kind of turn you
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into a tourist
for a little while
00:07:50.34\00:07:52.11
'cause I want to
concentrate on Greg's story
00:07:52.14\00:07:54.81
and then we'll try to
marry the two together
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because you do come
into this in little bit.
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But, Greg, again
good to have you here,
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let's go back to your childhood
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because you were born
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and raised in
Adventist home, were you not?
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Absolutely I was.
00:08:07.20\00:08:08.85
It was a strong Adventist home,
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you know, it
wasn't just a circumspect
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Adventist
relationship that we had.
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I grew up vegetarian.
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My mom handled all
seminars for a church.
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My father was at that
time I believe a deacon
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but later became an elder
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but we were strong in our faith.
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I was a pathfinder.
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I was a strong
Seventh-day Adventist.
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Yeah, so from the
outside this looks like
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kind of a textbook
Adventist home, you know.
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Everybody is going to church,
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you got leaders in a
church as your parents.
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Brothers and sisters?
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I absolutely have an
older brother name Doug
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and the younger
sister name Christine.
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So you're right
there in the middle
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in a rocking chair.
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There's so interesting theology
and studies and philosophies
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on that middle child you know,
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lot of stuff going
on in that middle child.
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City, rural where you--
you know where'd you grow up?
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We grew up out in the country
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about six miles
away from any town.
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My father was a farmer,
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my mother worked
in a doctor's office
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and we had a beautiful
home surrounded by fruit trees,
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fields it was the--
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the typical
surroundings that you see
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in the perfect
country home if you would--
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Yeah.
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It was awesome childhood.
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Yeah, it seems kind of
idyllic but under the surface
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there were some stuff
going on with your parents
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that kind of affect
you, walk us through that.
00:09:22.81\00:09:25.79
As a child, you know,
my parents tried to hide
00:09:25.82\00:09:27.97
any type of
arguments that they had.
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You know, if we
were driving in the car
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that would have been one thing
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and they would still
try to keep it under wraps.
00:09:32.60\00:09:34.82
But I realize that when I
was about 10 or 11 years old,
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things got a little more tensed,
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and as the years
progressed the arguing got worse
00:09:40.80\00:09:44.59
and I remember as a
child we had an old farm house.
00:09:44.62\00:09:48.29
And in the floor
we had huge registers,
00:09:48.32\00:09:50.50
the vents that were
almost a foot by a foot square
00:09:50.53\00:09:53.42
and my brother and I used
to sit up against that register
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and we could hear our
parents arguing at night.
00:09:55.72\00:09:58.06
Ultimately they
ended up getting divorced.
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So how old were you
when this divorce took place?
00:10:01.71\00:10:05.57
It was just
before my 13th birthday.
00:10:05.60\00:10:07.33
Okay, that's about the age
00:10:07.36\00:10:08.55
where you begin to
take it on the chin,
00:10:08.58\00:10:09.65
you know what's going on
00:10:09.68\00:10:10.71
but you're not
really processing.
00:10:10.74\00:10:12.46
How did that affect
you and your siblings?
00:10:12.49\00:10:15.50
Obviously with a divorce came
a lot more tension in the home
00:10:15.53\00:10:18.90
not only between my parents
00:10:18.93\00:10:19.99
but between the
parents and ourselves
00:10:20.02\00:10:22.32
and of course
between the siblings.
00:10:22.35\00:10:23.94
We didn't have a clue
what was really going on.
00:10:23.97\00:10:26.44
We had no answers.
00:10:26.47\00:10:27.50
We had questions but
even when we ask questions,
00:10:27.53\00:10:30.14
the answers we receive
were of course vague and--
00:10:30.17\00:10:32.90
The parents didn't want
to divulge any information
00:10:32.93\00:10:35.66
that would have been
damaging to one another
00:10:35.69\00:10:37.22
but of course we still--
00:10:37.25\00:10:39.05
we still knew
something was seriously wrong.
00:10:39.08\00:10:42.07
Custody wise your mom, your dad,
00:10:42.10\00:10:43.88
who did you end up with?
00:10:43.91\00:10:45.43
I went back and
forth for quite a while,
00:10:45.46\00:10:47.08
when we-- when the
divorce first happened
00:10:47.11\00:10:48.81
they were
separated for period of time.
00:10:48.84\00:10:51.34
And we were given the option
to who we wanted to live with
00:10:51.37\00:10:54.32
and at first I
chose my mother's house
00:10:54.35\00:10:56.22
and of course when I
got in argument with my mom
00:10:56.25\00:10:58.62
then of course I
wanted to stay with dad.
00:10:58.65\00:11:00.26
Sure. Dad was happy to have me.
00:11:00.29\00:11:02.72
Of course with that I
saw that I can manipulate
00:11:02.75\00:11:06.06
to both of them by
using them against each other
00:11:06.09\00:11:09.06
and of course that's what I did.
00:11:09.09\00:11:10.25
Yeah.
00:11:10.28\00:11:11.32
So I was back and forth for
00:11:11.35\00:11:12.75
couple of years
between the homes.
00:11:12.78\00:11:15.22
Were you still going to church,
00:11:15.25\00:11:16.48
were you attending
church at all during this time?
00:11:16.51\00:11:18.32
Periodically my
father made it a point
00:11:18.35\00:11:20.24
that whenever we
were at his home,
00:11:20.27\00:11:22.52
we were going to go to church.
00:11:22.55\00:11:24.08
Which was-- I am so
grateful for that today
00:11:24.11\00:11:26.65
because it still
allow those seeds
00:11:26.68\00:11:28.69
that were planted as a child
00:11:28.72\00:11:30.38
to continue to
grow in some capacity.
00:11:30.41\00:11:32.81
And I was still rebelling inside
00:11:32.84\00:11:34.46
and I was
essentially plugging my ears
00:11:34.49\00:11:37.67
when I was at church.
00:11:37.70\00:11:38.74
I didn't want to
hear what I was hearing
00:11:38.77\00:11:40.88
'cause I had my own
struggle, my own battle inside.
00:11:40.91\00:11:43.98
But he did, he
kept us in the church
00:11:44.01\00:11:45.87
and that was good.
00:11:45.90\00:11:46.97
It's been a blessing.
00:11:47.00\00:11:48.06
Yeah, so as you look back,
00:11:48.09\00:11:49.15
it seems like the divorce
is kind of a turning point,
00:11:49.18\00:11:51.54
at least the beginning
of your wilderness time.
00:11:51.57\00:11:55.95
Oh, it absolutely was. Yeah.
00:11:55.98\00:11:58.52
How is your mom's relationship
00:11:58.55\00:11:59.58
with the church
during these years?
00:11:59.61\00:12:01.59
During those
years it was definitely
00:12:01.62\00:12:04.47
essentially nonexistent.
00:12:04.50\00:12:06.25
When the divorce
happened she left the church
00:12:06.28\00:12:08.65
and she turned her back on it.
00:12:08.68\00:12:10.64
She didn't want
anything to do with it.
00:12:10.67\00:12:11.73
There was a lot of pain there.
00:12:11.76\00:12:12.97
Some of the
individuals in the church
00:12:13.00\00:12:14.25
didn't necessarily respond
the way that they should have
00:12:14.28\00:12:17.22
and the bridges that
were there were burnt.
00:12:17.25\00:12:21.88
Prior to divorce
were you in church school,
00:12:21.91\00:12:23.69
public school, where
were you going to school?
00:12:23.72\00:12:25.08
Church school, I went to
Ionia Seventh-day Adventist
00:12:25.11\00:12:27.18
from first grade until
almost the end of eighth grade.
00:12:27.21\00:12:30.88
Now were you
able to maintain that
00:12:30.91\00:12:32.14
or did you get put
into public school?
00:12:32.17\00:12:33.85
Ultimately with the divorce
00:12:33.88\00:12:35.83
my mother moved
and we moved with her
00:12:35.86\00:12:38.98
and I was placed
into public school.
00:12:39.01\00:12:41.33
How was that as far
as you know that your--
00:12:41.36\00:12:44.72
you know the
church school jargoned,
00:12:44.75\00:12:46.26
you know that how they move,
00:12:46.29\00:12:47.83
church school and public
school ain't the same thing.
00:12:47.86\00:12:49.97
No.
00:12:50.00\00:12:51.03
Did you find that when
you got into public school?
00:12:51.06\00:12:53.04
Oh, absolutely
they were two different,
00:12:53.07\00:12:54.26
two different
entities completely.
00:12:54.29\00:12:55.82
In the Adventist
school I was raised
00:12:55.85\00:12:57.90
with a Bible
knowledge not only that
00:12:57.93\00:12:59.91
but it was your
spiritual wellbeing was
00:12:59.94\00:13:02.84
really in the
teacher's view point.
00:13:02.87\00:13:05.90
They wanted to make
sure that you were educated
00:13:05.93\00:13:07.95
not only with the
history of the church
00:13:07.98\00:13:09.91
but you understood what
it meant to be a Christian.
00:13:09.94\00:13:12.76
And when I went to public school
00:13:12.79\00:13:14.71
obviously there was
no spirituality there,
00:13:14.74\00:13:16.70
no real good
positive spirituality.
00:13:16.73\00:13:18.78
Everything was negative.
00:13:18.81\00:13:20.05
The children
were openly discussing
00:13:20.08\00:13:22.71
things that I would--
00:13:22.74\00:13:23.81
I never even thought about
00:13:23.84\00:13:25.12
and so the
conversation was different.
00:13:25.15\00:13:27.08
The dress was different.
00:13:27.11\00:13:28.60
Even the teacher's
mentality was different.
00:13:28.63\00:13:30.33
Everything was different.
00:13:30.36\00:13:31.39
I was not prepared to
be in a public school.
00:13:31.42\00:13:34.13
There was just
no transition point.
00:13:34.16\00:13:35.46
So I went from being
a Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:35.49\00:13:37.85
to being dumped in the middle of
00:13:37.88\00:13:39.69
the most worldly environment
that you can think off.
00:13:39.72\00:13:41.97
It sure was a
rural public school
00:13:42.00\00:13:44.39
but still it
was a public school.
00:13:44.42\00:13:46.41
Public school yeah,
two ways to deal with that.
00:13:46.44\00:13:48.37
One you can fight upstream
and try to remain Christian
00:13:48.40\00:13:52.65
or you can try to get along
and adapting just stay alive.
00:13:52.68\00:13:55.71
Which route did you take?
00:13:55.74\00:13:56.90
Oh, I definitely
started compromising.
00:13:56.93\00:13:59.27
As soon as I went there,
I really had no intention
00:13:59.30\00:14:01.51
on maintaining
my Christian values.
00:14:01.54\00:14:04.64
For me I wanted to be accepted.
00:14:04.67\00:14:06.24
For years I'd been
ignored because of divorce.
00:14:06.27\00:14:08.40
I felt I was being ignored.
00:14:08.43\00:14:10.76
I'd been growing
up with questions
00:14:10.79\00:14:12.28
that just weren't being answered
00:14:12.31\00:14:13.38
and I honestly I wanted friends.
00:14:13.41\00:14:15.70
I wanted somebody that that
would accept me for who I was.
00:14:15.73\00:14:18.50
And even though I
grew up in a church school,
00:14:18.53\00:14:20.32
there was still
nobody really, really close
00:14:20.35\00:14:22.84
because we live
miles away from everybody.
00:14:22.87\00:14:24.84
I didn't have childhood
friends that lived around us.
00:14:24.87\00:14:28.09
So when I got to public school,
00:14:28.12\00:14:29.17
I saw as a chance to
maybe build some relationships
00:14:29.20\00:14:31.57
to somebody that we're
gonna be little bit closer than
00:14:31.60\00:14:33.47
what I had in
Seventh-day Adventist school.
00:14:33.50\00:14:35.72
Yeah, which
group did you follow?
00:14:35.75\00:14:37.47
You got your sports
guys, you got you techie guys.
00:14:37.50\00:14:40.83
You got your misfits.
00:14:40.86\00:14:42.13
You got your-- you know,
00:14:42.16\00:14:43.47
you gonna fall
into one or the other.
00:14:43.50\00:14:45.08
Jock, you're playing ball
or you're with the math club,
00:14:45.11\00:14:47.99
you know, or
you're with the druggies
00:14:48.02\00:14:49.64
or you're within or just
there are these little groups.
00:14:49.67\00:14:51.99
What did you gravitate?
00:14:52.02\00:14:53.06
Oh, misfits and druggies.
00:14:53.09\00:14:54.81
No, we never would have
classified ourselves as that.
00:14:54.84\00:14:57.84
We were the individuals
that knew everything best
00:14:57.87\00:15:00.85
and of course you
know, we dressed the best,
00:15:00.88\00:15:03.46
we listen to the best
music and in all reality
00:15:03.49\00:15:05.50
it was the worst
garbage you could ever imagine.
00:15:05.53\00:15:07.35
And I'm sure if they could
have taken pictures of me back
00:15:07.38\00:15:09.33
then I was probably
wearing pants with a 44 waist
00:15:09.36\00:15:12.34
and my waist is
probably maybe 25 inches.
00:15:12.37\00:15:15.12
And so I dressed
with the baggies clothes
00:15:15.15\00:15:17.75
you can think off and I thought
I was a little gang banger,
00:15:17.78\00:15:20.92
and of course I'm in a town
00:15:20.95\00:15:22.25
the size of
maybe 2,000 population
00:15:22.28\00:15:24.22
that was extremely small.
00:15:24.25\00:15:25.50
But that was
the mentality I had.
00:15:25.53\00:15:27.44
I was 10 feet
tall and bullet proof.
00:15:27.47\00:15:29.36
And of course we
were misfits I mean,
00:15:29.39\00:15:31.48
we had fights
after school all the time
00:15:31.51\00:15:33.40
and some of 'em
get pretty violent.
00:15:33.43\00:15:35.92
One of my friends I
remember he got his head
00:15:35.95\00:15:37.45
cracked opened
with a baseball bat
00:15:37.48\00:15:38.95
and that was just
part for the course.
00:15:38.98\00:15:42.39
At this point in your life
00:15:42.42\00:15:43.56
I guess your spiritual
life is pretty null and void.
00:15:43.59\00:15:46.16
Oh, it was void.
00:15:46.19\00:15:47.22
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:47.25\00:15:49.67
Talk to me about the
slide and I use that term into--
00:15:49.70\00:15:53.89
into drugs and how that began?
00:15:53.92\00:15:56.97
When I started
looking for friends,
00:15:57.00\00:15:58.77
one of the friends that I--
00:15:58.80\00:16:00.75
one of the
friendships I developed
00:16:00.78\00:16:02.19
was with an
individual whose parents smoked.
00:16:02.22\00:16:05.39
Now at this time one of--
00:16:05.42\00:16:06.63
my mother had been smoking
and so I was used to the smell
00:16:06.66\00:16:10.65
and she didn't do
it openly at this time
00:16:10.68\00:16:12.25
but I can tell, still tell.
00:16:12.28\00:16:13.52
Yeah, now smoking.
00:16:13.55\00:16:15.09
Are we taking about cigarettes?
00:16:15.12\00:16:16.71
Are we talking about cigarette.
00:16:16.74\00:16:18.72
Just cigarettes. At this point.
00:16:18.75\00:16:20.39
And so my friends parents
smoked and he smoked as well.
00:16:20.42\00:16:24.01
Now mind you he was pretty young
00:16:24.04\00:16:26.03
15 years old, 14
years old at this point.
00:16:26.06\00:16:28.33
And so he is openly
smoking and the parents--
00:16:28.36\00:16:30.90
his parents allowed me to smoke.
00:16:30.93\00:16:32.88
So if were in public
they didn't want us doing it
00:16:32.91\00:16:35.60
directly in front of
people but they'd buy cigarettes
00:16:35.63\00:16:38.03
and that wasn't
an issue for them.
00:16:38.06\00:16:39.91
And then I found a lady who
had a store down in our town
00:16:39.94\00:16:43.39
who had pool
tables in the backroom
00:16:43.42\00:16:45.48
and she would
sell the cigarettes
00:16:45.51\00:16:46.99
and so that was
where we got our supply.
00:16:47.02\00:16:49.49
And within a
short period of time,
00:16:49.52\00:16:51.37
I was smoking up
to two packs a day
00:16:51.40\00:16:52.85
and that was
just-- it was no problem.
00:16:52.88\00:16:54.20
I mean that was me acting cool.
00:16:54.23\00:16:57.93
So that's how cigarettes came in
00:16:57.96\00:16:59.45
and eventually with
that type of mentality
00:16:59.48\00:17:02.34
running into
individuals that are utilizing
00:17:02.37\00:17:04.40
or using a different substance
00:17:04.43\00:17:05.85
and so we slowly
went in transition
00:17:05.88\00:17:10.29
from tobacco to weed.
00:17:10.32\00:17:12.72
And then for me it just,
it was a logical transition
00:17:12.75\00:17:15.74
because one substance really
didn't matter from the other.
00:17:15.77\00:17:18.68
At the end of the day
I was still rebelling.
00:17:18.71\00:17:20.42
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
smoking and smoking,
00:17:20.45\00:17:22.87
and folk don't understand
that slide is very easy.
00:17:22.90\00:17:25.94
It's not a dramatic thing.
00:17:25.97\00:17:27.82
You move from
tobacco to marijuana
00:17:27.85\00:17:30.71
and you're still
lighting and you're puffing.
00:17:30.74\00:17:33.53
So that's the route
that you chose to take.
00:17:33.56\00:17:35.47
Absolutely.
00:17:35.50\00:17:36.53
Now that puts you into
society of a certain class
00:17:36.56\00:17:38.93
or group of people that
you kind of migrate to that,
00:17:38.96\00:17:41.37
that district dare I say.
00:17:41.40\00:17:42.94
I did, I actually
enjoyed the type of mentality
00:17:42.97\00:17:46.65
that culture kind of breeds
00:17:46.68\00:17:48.53
and the reason why it's
when you start doing that,
00:17:48.56\00:17:50.59
you know what you
are doing is illegal.
00:17:50.62\00:17:52.50
And there's something about
doing something that's wrong
00:17:52.53\00:17:54.78
you know it's wrong and
you're getting away with it.
00:17:54.81\00:17:57.41
You almost feel that adrenaline
rush that comes with it.
00:17:57.44\00:18:01.54
And being young, you gravitate
to that adrenaline rush
00:18:01.57\00:18:05.76
and you want
that to be replicated
00:18:05.79\00:18:07.39
is often as possible.
00:18:07.42\00:18:08.73
And so you're doing
things to get away with things
00:18:08.76\00:18:11.08
so whether you
are transporting drugs
00:18:11.11\00:18:12.67
or using drugs or
doing things in the public
00:18:12.70\00:18:15.12
that aren't
socially acceptable or legal.
00:18:15.15\00:18:18.81
And that was just
the attitude I took,
00:18:18.84\00:18:20.28
you now, so I
started even growing weed
00:18:20.31\00:18:22.63
and that was something I really
enjoyed doing at that time
00:18:22.66\00:18:25.22
because I knew I was
getting away with something
00:18:25.25\00:18:27.63
that I shouldn't have
been and I was doing it openly.
00:18:27.66\00:18:29.92
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:29.95\00:18:30.98
And you developed
this kind of Teflon mindset
00:18:31.01\00:18:33.49
you know, they
can't-- it's not--
00:18:33.52\00:18:34.84
it can't hurt me,
it can't touch me.
00:18:34.87\00:18:36.30
Are you still in school?
00:18:36.33\00:18:37.77
At this point yes,
00:18:37.80\00:18:38.84
yeah, I actually
graduated high school.
00:18:38.87\00:18:40.71
Okay.
00:18:40.74\00:18:41.94
Barely but I did. You did.
00:18:41.97\00:18:43.79
I ended up
having to switch schools
00:18:43.82\00:18:45.74
from that public school
to an alternative school.
00:18:45.77\00:18:49.59
I had run-in with
the sheriff's department.
00:18:49.62\00:18:52.67
I had written an article
about the sheriff's department
00:18:52.70\00:18:54.89
and there were two officers
00:18:54.92\00:18:56.98
who had false fight
evidence in the court of law.
00:18:57.01\00:18:59.28
And I wrote to school, an
article in the school paper
00:18:59.31\00:19:01.80
about that and the next thing,
00:19:01.83\00:19:03.06
you know, I got some attention
00:19:03.09\00:19:04.12
from the local
police department.
00:19:04.15\00:19:05.52
Yes, yes, yes.
00:19:05.55\00:19:07.32
So you're growing weed
00:19:07.35\00:19:08.92
for your own
consumption or for retail?
00:19:08.95\00:19:11.32
Both.
00:19:11.35\00:19:13.24
So you moved from
just smoking to selling.
00:19:13.27\00:19:16.09
Correct. Yeah.
00:19:16.12\00:19:17.15
Yeah, I didn't want to
have to pay for my own supply
00:19:17.18\00:19:20.47
and so I decided why
not sell, I can purchase
00:19:20.50\00:19:24.61
one quantity and
fourth of that will be mine.
00:19:24.64\00:19:26.87
And the other
three quarters I can sell
00:19:26.90\00:19:28.63
and I don't
have to pay for mine.
00:19:28.66\00:19:29.81
Yeah, were you getting
yours from someone else?
00:19:29.84\00:19:32.35
Oh, absolutely there was.
00:19:32.38\00:19:33.74
Well, in order to
get the seeds to grow
00:19:33.77\00:19:35.58
I had to purchase weed.
00:19:35.61\00:19:36.68
And it takes quite a
while to grow a plant
00:19:36.71\00:19:39.25
and to get it to fruition.
00:19:39.28\00:19:41.04
So I was purchasing
from another individual
00:19:41.07\00:19:43.93
so I'd purchase
about an ounce at a time
00:19:43.96\00:19:46.23
and then sell three
quarters of an ounce
00:19:46.26\00:19:47.57
and use a
quarter ounce for myself.
00:19:47.60\00:19:49.98
How many years
were you doing this?
00:19:50.01\00:19:53.21
Before I really went upwards
probably about two years.
00:19:53.24\00:19:56.92
Okay. Okay. Tell me
about the escalation?
00:19:56.95\00:20:00.63
I had been
working part time jobs
00:20:00.66\00:20:03.11
to make some extra money
00:20:03.14\00:20:04.56
and even when I did that
I was not doing it legally.
00:20:04.59\00:20:07.30
I was extorting my manager,
I caught him stealing money.
00:20:07.33\00:20:09.63
And so I was bringing in
a little bit of extra cash
00:20:09.66\00:20:11.84
that way but
ultimately that well dried up
00:20:11.87\00:20:14.51
when he got fired.
00:20:14.54\00:20:16.04
And so I got a different
part time job at a factory
00:20:16.07\00:20:19.05
and as I sat down on break
00:20:19.08\00:20:21.46
I was smoking a
joint in the close section
00:20:21.49\00:20:24.00
of the factory
and my supervisors
00:20:24.03\00:20:25.78
came walking out the doors.
00:20:25.81\00:20:27.07
Now I was already kind of scared
00:20:27.10\00:20:29.33
because my first day in the
job only been there two hours
00:20:29.36\00:20:32.02
I have a joint in my
hand that I'm smoking
00:20:32.05\00:20:34.43
and here comes my supervisors,
sits right down next to me.
00:20:34.46\00:20:37.54
As he sits down, you know,
00:20:37.57\00:20:39.26
I'm hiding it over here,
I had already taken a hit.
00:20:39.29\00:20:42.33
And so I'm
holding it in my lungs
00:20:42.36\00:20:45.12
and he just looks at me
like are you really that dumb?
00:20:45.15\00:20:48.68
And so he says will
you-- are you gonna pass that?
00:20:48.71\00:20:51.94
And so I passed it to
when he hit it and he asked me,
00:20:51.97\00:20:54.28
he said can you
sell more of this?
00:20:54.31\00:20:56.71
And I stumbled
for a second I said,
00:20:56.74\00:20:59.11
yeah, I've got
an ounce in the car.
00:20:59.14\00:21:00.81
He said no, can
you sell more of this?
00:21:00.84\00:21:03.21
And that's when it dawned on me,
00:21:03.24\00:21:04.56
he wanted me sell for him.
00:21:04.59\00:21:06.41
I followed him home that day
00:21:06.44\00:21:08.24
walked into his
house and sat down,
00:21:08.27\00:21:09.56
he walked into bathroom
00:21:09.59\00:21:10.62
and he came out
with the duffle bag
00:21:10.65\00:21:11.94
which he proceeded to unzip
00:21:11.97\00:21:14.18
and in there was a
10 pound block of weed.
00:21:14.21\00:21:16.75
And this is your supervisor.
That's my supervisor.
00:21:16.78\00:21:18.89
Welcome to the
world of job big business.
00:21:18.92\00:21:20.70
Correct.
00:21:20.73\00:21:21.78
I found that later
he'd served 25 years
00:21:21.81\00:21:23.97
in the Texas prison for murder
00:21:24.00\00:21:25.89
and he was a
very well connected,
00:21:25.92\00:21:28.36
very high up in his
wouldn't necessarily
00:21:28.39\00:21:31.42
called a cartel
caught in organization.
00:21:31.45\00:21:34.81
But he was very well networked
00:21:34.84\00:21:36.36
and that was a
start of my career.
00:21:36.39\00:21:39.31
So he cuts you off a
piece and you sold it.
00:21:39.34\00:21:41.07
He cut me half a pound
00:21:41.10\00:21:42.16
and he says, you have
a week to get rid of it.
00:21:42.19\00:21:44.77
And he told me it
was gonna cost me $600.
00:21:44.80\00:21:46.86
He gave it to me in front.
00:21:46.89\00:21:47.92
I didn't have to have any cash
and so I left made a phone call
00:21:47.95\00:21:51.44
and I sold that whole
pound within 45 minutes
00:21:51.47\00:21:54.60
and I sold it for $1400
00:21:54.63\00:21:55.97
and I took that
money back to him
00:21:56.00\00:21:57.57
and he gave me another pound.
00:21:57.60\00:21:58.66
I sold that pound
within another hour
00:21:58.69\00:22:00.90
and so that day I made
$1400 profit off two sales.
00:22:00.93\00:22:05.05
So the individuals that
had been my drug dealers
00:22:05.08\00:22:07.53
now became my
customers within one evening.
00:22:07.56\00:22:11.14
Wow, so you're
often-- you're often running.
00:22:11.17\00:22:13.12
I was often running.
00:22:13.15\00:22:14.22
And that's what so
seductive about this door,
00:22:14.25\00:22:16.12
you can't make that
money working at Remnant
00:22:16.15\00:22:17.99
or 3ABN not
$1400 in an afternoon.
00:22:18.02\00:22:22.20
Yeah, that's what
so seductive about sin.
00:22:22.23\00:22:24.31
And you haven't 'cause
you're not gonna make that
00:22:24.34\00:22:26.01
hardly anywhere.
00:22:26.04\00:22:27.56
I mean, you don't
have to be some high part
00:22:27.59\00:22:29.24
to do that kind of
thing in two hours.
00:22:29.27\00:22:31.07
Yeah, yeah,
you're often running.
00:22:31.10\00:22:34.13
So you are in now the
marijuana selling business.
00:22:34.16\00:22:36.36
Yeah, and you never
stay with that substance.
00:22:36.39\00:22:39.18
If you're dealing
with quantities that large
00:22:39.21\00:22:41.02
you're dealing
with that much money.
00:22:41.05\00:22:42.16
You're gonna be in whole
different circle of friends
00:22:42.19\00:22:44.14
and those friends are
gonna be dealing with--
00:22:44.17\00:22:45.69
with others substances.
00:22:45.72\00:22:47.26
Yeah.
00:22:47.29\00:22:48.32
Eventually I
graduated to selling cocaine
00:22:48.35\00:22:51.31
and I had been dabbling
in extra seed for a while,
00:22:51.34\00:22:53.36
we had it coming in from Canada.
00:22:53.39\00:22:54.96
It'd come up from Detroit
00:22:54.99\00:22:56.33
and make its way
into Grand Rapids
00:22:56.36\00:22:57.74
and we distribute
that into the raves.
00:22:57.77\00:23:01.03
So I had my hands in a
lot of different things
00:23:01.06\00:23:03.40
but after
selling weed for so long
00:23:03.43\00:23:05.44
and dealing with
such large quantities,
00:23:05.47\00:23:06.95
I didn't want to have to traffic
00:23:06.98\00:23:09.34
that's something that large
00:23:09.37\00:23:11.66
in order to make
that amount of money
00:23:11.69\00:23:12.94
so I switched
to selling cocaine.
00:23:12.97\00:23:14.39
And I would pick up four
ounces every day, every two days
00:23:14.42\00:23:17.96
and four ounces
when it's broken up
00:23:17.99\00:23:19.45
will cover a dinner plate
00:23:19.48\00:23:20.91
and the center
will be about that high.
00:23:20.94\00:23:23.74
And I would
purchase that for $2,200
00:23:23.77\00:23:25.81
and I could sell a gram for $90
00:23:25.84\00:23:28.42
and so that's--
it's a lot of money.
00:23:28.45\00:23:29.67
I'll just put it that way.
00:23:29.70\00:23:30.73
I have to probably pull in
7 to $8,000 off of a $2,200.
00:23:30.76\00:23:36.86
Yeah, how old are
you at during this time?
00:23:36.89\00:23:39.90
19. 19, so still sub 20.
00:23:39.93\00:23:43.84
Making a lot of
money it seems like.
00:23:43.87\00:23:46.02
Yeah, but on average I'd
point $2,000 profit a day
00:23:46.05\00:23:49.30
and that was-- that was
if I just take the average.
00:23:49.33\00:23:52.99
Now there were
some days I made less
00:23:53.02\00:23:54.46
and there were some
days I made a lot more.
00:23:54.49\00:23:55.97
I remember one
time I sold a 40 pound.
00:23:56.00\00:23:59.12
It was a 40 pound deal.
00:23:59.15\00:24:00.69
And at 40 pounds I was charging
the individuals $800 a pound.
00:24:00.72\00:24:04.47
So I'm making $200 a
pound but there is 40 pounds,
00:24:04.50\00:24:07.30
that's a lot of
money to have to deal with.
00:24:07.33\00:24:09.43
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:09.46\00:24:10.85
It escalated quite quickly.
00:24:10.88\00:24:12.91
18, 19 selling a lot of
drugs making a lot of money.
00:24:12.94\00:24:16.97
What's going on in your
head at this point in your life?
00:24:17.00\00:24:19.53
When I was 19 my lung collapsed
00:24:19.56\00:24:21.76
and that was actually a
changing point in my life.
00:24:21.79\00:24:24.22
At this time I had been kind
of restricted in how I operated.
00:24:24.25\00:24:28.14
I kept it very small and I was--
00:24:28.17\00:24:30.75
and didn't want things
to get too loud if you will.
00:24:30.78\00:24:32.95
But my lung collapsed
00:24:32.98\00:24:34.43
and after they inflated
the lung, the surgeon told me.
00:24:34.46\00:24:37.42
He said now the next
time this happens I can--
00:24:37.45\00:24:40.27
I can help but he
said the third time
00:24:40.30\00:24:42.50
you're probably gonna die.
00:24:42.53\00:24:44.02
And so when I left there
00:24:44.05\00:24:45.08
I was almost as if I
gotten a death sentence.
00:24:45.11\00:24:47.58
And so my perspective
was this. If I'm gonna die.
00:24:47.61\00:24:50.14
I'm gonna die on my terms
00:24:50.17\00:24:51.61
doing what I
wanted to do before end.
00:24:51.64\00:24:53.73
I immediately
went and quit my job.
00:24:53.76\00:24:55.54
I'd been a tow truck
driver for almost 10 months
00:24:55.57\00:24:59.46
and I really enjoyed the job but
00:24:59.49\00:25:02.04
you know, I was making
far more money selling drugs
00:25:02.07\00:25:04.05
after work
before work during work.
00:25:04.08\00:25:05.92
And I said if I'm gonna die,
I'm just gonna die in my way.
00:25:05.95\00:25:09.16
What was the
mindset of holding a 9 to 5
00:25:09.19\00:25:12.12
when you're making so
much money selling drugs?
00:25:12.15\00:25:14.43
I appreciated the
work. I didn't mind the work
00:25:14.46\00:25:17.60
and I really enjoyed driving
a tow truck believe it or not.
00:25:17.63\00:25:20.25
I mean, you are
at these accidents
00:25:20.28\00:25:21.68
and you're helping individuals
00:25:21.71\00:25:22.92
and there's always
a little part of me
00:25:22.95\00:25:24.32
that liked to help people.
00:25:24.35\00:25:25.99
At the same time I'm
selling drugs and hurting them.
00:25:26.02\00:25:28.59
You know, but a
drug dealer mindset
00:25:28.62\00:25:30.82
isn't necessarily like that.
00:25:30.85\00:25:32.23
I saw a one drug
dealer handing out
00:25:32.26\00:25:34.97
ecstasy pills at a high school.
00:25:35.00\00:25:36.34
And I was so
incensed by that that
00:25:36.37\00:25:39.72
I did several things
to put him out of business
00:25:39.75\00:25:42.47
because I didn't
like the idea that
00:25:42.50\00:25:43.93
he was just out distributing
ecstasy at a high school.
00:25:43.96\00:25:46.14
Yeah, yeah, you are much better
00:25:46.17\00:25:47.29
'cause you were
selling your drugs to adults.
00:25:47.32\00:25:49.28
I understand this, right, yeah.
00:25:49.31\00:25:52.32
It's amazing.
00:25:52.35\00:25:54.65
You're making a
lot of money sub 20,
00:25:54.68\00:25:56.59
heading into your 20s.
00:25:56.62\00:25:58.87
The wheels had to come off
the tracks sooner or later.
00:25:58.90\00:26:01.55
Walk me through that experience?
00:26:01.58\00:26:03.56
I was using drugs.
00:26:03.59\00:26:04.71
Had been using drugs
before I've really sold drugs
00:26:04.74\00:26:07.34
and so it never dawned on me,
00:26:07.37\00:26:10.12
how fast you could
become addicted to something
00:26:10.15\00:26:12.91
and really the control
that would have on you.
00:26:12.94\00:26:15.60
Now while I was
making all that money
00:26:15.63\00:26:16.99
and had all those
drugs it was never an issue.
00:26:17.02\00:26:19.23
Addiction was just part
of the job, I didn't care.
00:26:19.26\00:26:22.43
I honestly didn't
care that I was doing
00:26:22.46\00:26:24.30
an ounce of coke
myself every two days.
00:26:24.33\00:26:26.35
I just, I didn't care.
00:26:26.38\00:26:27.85
My tolerance for
drugs were so high,
00:26:27.88\00:26:30.23
people will just look
at me and shake their head
00:26:30.26\00:26:31.91
while some guys od'd,
I didn't have a problem.
00:26:31.94\00:26:35.17
And I didn't see it as a
problem until I got busted
00:26:35.20\00:26:38.34
and that was really when
things went off the track
00:26:38.37\00:26:41.40
because my
addiction, I could no longer--
00:26:41.43\00:26:43.79
I can no longer pay for it.
00:26:43.82\00:26:46.99
How did you then try to?
00:26:47.02\00:26:49.08
I mean, you still got the habit?
00:26:49.11\00:26:50.41
Oh, absolutely. So
how did you deal with it?
00:26:50.44\00:26:52.63
My addiction or the
substance I was addicted too.
00:26:52.66\00:26:54.94
I transitioned to something else
00:26:54.97\00:26:56.35
that I could get
without having to sell drugs.
00:26:56.38\00:26:59.31
So ultimately in 2000
00:26:59.34\00:27:01.66
it was the winter
between 2002 and 2003,
00:27:01.69\00:27:05.53
the federal agents,
that was state police,
00:27:05.56\00:27:07.39
Central Michigan
enforcement team,
00:27:07.42\00:27:08.69
West Michigan
enforcement team, the DEA.
00:27:08.72\00:27:10.94
They had a representative
there from the FBI
00:27:10.97\00:27:12.73
came and raided my house.
00:27:12.76\00:27:14.96
I was sent to
jail and but because
00:27:14.99\00:27:17.37
I had
essentially a clean record.
00:27:17.40\00:27:19.53
They gave me a
slap on the wrist.
00:27:19.56\00:27:21.29
But when I got on
to jail those same,
00:27:21.32\00:27:23.19
the same mentality
was there that I had--
00:27:23.22\00:27:25.83
that I started with so
my addiction was still there
00:27:25.86\00:27:29.10
whether or not I
was using a substance.
00:27:29.13\00:27:31.67
When I got out of
jail the first thing I did
00:27:31.70\00:27:33.82
was go to a doctor's office
00:27:33.85\00:27:34.90
and I got a
prescriptions for pain killers.
00:27:34.93\00:27:37.43
And so those--
00:27:37.46\00:27:38.54
that
prescription to pain killers
00:27:38.57\00:27:40.04
I began abusing immediately.
00:27:40.07\00:27:41.66
So you simply
substituted your drugs.
00:27:41.69\00:27:43.21
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:27:43.24\00:27:44.27
I went to something
that I could get my hands
00:27:44.30\00:27:45.95
on far easier than
cocaine and not only that
00:27:45.98\00:27:48.67
but I can be
probation and still use
00:27:48.70\00:27:52.15
because I had a
doctor's prescription.
00:27:52.18\00:27:55.15
So now you're abusing-- Opiates.
00:27:55.18\00:27:58.33
Yeah, yeah. Walk
me through the next--
00:27:58.36\00:28:01.84
So I went from just a
standard practitioner,
00:28:01.87\00:28:06.57
your average
doctor and I had him
00:28:06.60\00:28:08.29
send me to a pain
clinic and with the pain clinic
00:28:08.32\00:28:10.89
you have a lot more
drugs in your repertoire.
00:28:10.92\00:28:13.67
So I started going from
one substance to the next
00:28:13.70\00:28:17.02
and within a year I'd graduated
from vicodin to morphine.
00:28:17.05\00:28:22.12
And so I had morphine 24 hour
00:28:22.15\00:28:24.56
sustained release
morphine called Avinza.
00:28:24.59\00:28:26.33
I had 60 milligram
morphine sulphate pills.
00:28:26.36\00:28:30.58
I had fentanyl
patches which is--
00:28:30.61\00:28:32.81
it's an opiate,
synthetic opiate.
00:28:32.84\00:28:35.60
It is 80 times
more powerful than
00:28:35.63\00:28:37.62
morphine
milligram for milligram.
00:28:37.65\00:28:39.05
I had transdermal patches,
so I put a patch on my side.
00:28:39.08\00:28:41.30
But ultimately once
my tolerance got so high
00:28:41.33\00:28:43.84
and it didn't matter
how many pills I took
00:28:43.87\00:28:45.18
I wasn't getting
the buzz I wanted.
00:28:45.21\00:28:46.92
I began taking
those fentanyl patches
00:28:46.95\00:28:49.20
and breaking them down
adding crack cocaine to it
00:28:49.23\00:28:52.11
and injecting that.
00:28:52.14\00:28:53.28
So now I went from just
taking pills to injecting.
00:28:53.31\00:28:57.90
Now, I'm shooting up my drugs.
00:28:57.93\00:28:59.96
And once I did
that my tolerance flew
00:28:59.99\00:29:02.16
through the rough and it became
00:29:02.19\00:29:03.85
much harder to
feed my addiction.
00:29:03.88\00:29:05.34
Yeah, you see having
done a little drug work
00:29:05.37\00:29:07.74
in New York City, you are
the worst kind of drug abuser.
00:29:07.77\00:29:12.62
Because one you got a
really high tolerance.
00:29:12.65\00:29:15.02
Two you are a
thinking drug abuser.
00:29:15.05\00:29:17.09
And it takes a thinking
guy longer to hit bottom
00:29:17.12\00:29:20.02
because he is
massaging the system.
00:29:20.05\00:29:22.21
If a guy is just
stumbling and bumbling,
00:29:22.24\00:29:23.72
he hits ground very quickly
and then can start his recovery
00:29:23.75\00:29:27.66
but you are
massaging the system.
00:29:27.69\00:29:29.48
You are thinking
your way through stuff
00:29:29.51\00:29:30.81
and you got this tolerance,
00:29:30.84\00:29:32.03
so your fall is gonna
be much harder because
00:29:32.06\00:29:36.71
you know stuff, you
know, you're not a stupid guy.
00:29:36.74\00:29:40.26
You're smart enough to leverage
your skills and get stuff.
00:29:40.29\00:29:45.09
So you go from a
regular purchase to a pain guy
00:29:45.12\00:29:48.16
that's like
going to a candy store.
00:29:48.19\00:29:49.96
So you're thinking
your way through stuff
00:29:49.99\00:29:51.27
so it's tougher for you.
00:29:51.30\00:29:52.65
So obviously the
big arrest had to come
00:29:52.68\00:29:56.94
and prison time follows that.
00:29:56.97\00:29:58.76
Walk me through that experience?
00:29:58.79\00:30:01.02
My doctor's office
is eventually caught on.
00:30:01.05\00:30:04.74
A friend of mine and
myself went to a pharmacy
00:30:04.77\00:30:07.66
and tried to pass
off a fake prescription.
00:30:07.69\00:30:10.96
And we-- they
didn't fill it then
00:30:10.99\00:30:12.91
but when I went
to my doctor's office
00:30:12.94\00:30:14.45
later on that week,
00:30:14.48\00:30:15.73
they cut me off of everything,
everything cold turkey.
00:30:15.76\00:30:19.17
And as I walked out
of the doctor's office
00:30:19.20\00:30:20.89
I realized what
that meant for me.
00:30:20.92\00:30:22.95
Now I could go
through all my prescriptions
00:30:22.98\00:30:24.92
within 5-6 days, bottle
after bottle after bottle.
00:30:24.95\00:30:28.59
And so I knew it was
just a short period of time
00:30:28.62\00:30:30.75
and I was gonna
be going through some
00:30:30.78\00:30:32.19
very serious withdrawals
00:30:32.22\00:30:34.11
and I didn't want
to experience that.
00:30:34.14\00:30:35.31
I'd seen my friends do that
00:30:35.34\00:30:36.52
and I didn't want to
have any part of that.
00:30:36.55\00:30:38.79
So immediately I started
running through my options
00:30:38.82\00:30:41.54
and the only option
that I actually considered
00:30:41.57\00:30:43.73
was the option of
breaking into homes
00:30:43.76\00:30:45.54
and stealing morphine
from people that I knew had it.
00:30:45.57\00:30:47.89
And after being in
that lifestyle for so long,
00:30:47.92\00:30:50.19
I knew exactly
who had the drugs.
00:30:50.22\00:30:52.64
And the first thing
I did was start going
00:30:52.67\00:30:54.24
and kicking in
doors and taking drugs.
00:30:54.27\00:30:56.11
Now kicking down
doors is something
00:30:56.14\00:30:57.33
I was used to 'cause I did
it when I was selling drugs.
00:30:57.36\00:30:59.93
You know, people
who don't pay you,
00:30:59.96\00:31:01.97
you go pay 'em a
visit, you get your money.
00:31:02.00\00:31:04.18
And so that's
what I began doing was
00:31:04.21\00:31:06.27
kicking down doors and
stealing prescriptions.
00:31:06.30\00:31:09.78
How long did that last?
00:31:09.81\00:31:11.86
It lasted about six weeks
00:31:11.89\00:31:14.21
because my prior criminal record
00:31:14.24\00:31:17.32
it wasn't long people caught on.
00:31:17.35\00:31:19.37
The police knew who was doing it
00:31:19.40\00:31:21.02
and so I began-- my
crime spree just widened.
00:31:21.05\00:31:24.24
Once they understood who it was,
00:31:24.27\00:31:25.85
I couldn't go back home.
00:31:25.88\00:31:26.91
So I lost my home
and I had to quit my job,
00:31:26.94\00:31:29.46
I was managing a restaurant
during that two year period
00:31:29.49\00:31:32.14
after I'd got
involved the first time.
00:31:32.17\00:31:34.16
So I quit my job, I'm homeless.
00:31:34.19\00:31:35.96
I am wanted man and
I have a drug addiction
00:31:35.99\00:31:39.10
and that drug
addiction was my primary concern
00:31:39.13\00:31:41.89
because I hated
feeling that way of being sick
00:31:41.92\00:31:46.91
when I didn't have that
opium running through my veins.
00:31:46.94\00:31:50.84
So that being on the run
lasted for about a month,
00:31:50.87\00:31:54.11
I started breaking
into houses left and right
00:31:54.14\00:31:55.87
including my parents.
00:31:55.90\00:31:57.41
I actually broke
into my own mother's home
00:31:57.44\00:31:59.15
and stole her prescriptions
00:31:59.18\00:32:00.28
and once I did
that I'd crossed a line
00:32:00.31\00:32:02.28
that I never imagined I
would have ever crossed.
00:32:02.31\00:32:04.64
I mean, once you
get there you know
00:32:04.67\00:32:06.16
you've hit rock bottom
and honestly I believe that
00:32:06.19\00:32:09.38
once a person
gets to that point,
00:32:09.41\00:32:10.82
they are willing to do anything.
00:32:10.85\00:32:13.31
Anything, yeah.
Anything and I knew I was.
00:32:13.34\00:32:15.27
Did you have
any sense of sorrow?
00:32:15.30\00:32:17.31
Any sense of self worth?
00:32:17.34\00:32:18.98
Did you care about yourself
00:32:19.01\00:32:20.50
or was drug so primary in a life
00:32:20.53\00:32:23.36
that everything
kind of stem from there?
00:32:23.39\00:32:25.50
I was sorry for
breaking into my mom's house
00:32:25.53\00:32:27.42
and doing that to her.
00:32:27.45\00:32:28.48
Because I'd taken her medication
00:32:28.51\00:32:30.44
and I knew that I was
taking something from her
00:32:30.47\00:32:33.52
because I didn't want
to go through something.
00:32:33.55\00:32:35.42
But I knew she would
have to go through that
00:32:35.45\00:32:37.82
okay, but when I did it.
00:32:37.85\00:32:39.21
I didn't think about
it. It was only afterwards.
00:32:39.24\00:32:41.52
'Cause I called
her up on the phone
00:32:41.55\00:32:42.74
at 6:30 one morning and we're--
00:32:42.77\00:32:44.37
she's boiling on the phone
00:32:44.40\00:32:45.43
because for it
wasn't about the medication.
00:32:45.46\00:32:47.80
For her it was a fact that
00:32:47.83\00:32:48.86
I her son have
broken their trust.
00:32:48.89\00:32:51.65
And even though I had
been selling drugs for years
00:32:51.68\00:32:53.44
and I know my parents knew it.
00:32:53.47\00:32:55.08
When I did that they
knew I crossed a line
00:32:55.11\00:32:57.70
that trust had been
broken and that was something
00:32:57.73\00:33:00.19
that I couldn't come
back from just like that.
00:33:00.22\00:33:02.76
And so it was--
00:33:02.79\00:33:05.10
it was almost
like when I did that
00:33:05.13\00:33:06.71
I knew I'd hit a level
00:33:06.74\00:33:08.27
that it was just
gonna be downhill from there
00:33:08.30\00:33:10.13
and all hope was gone.
00:33:10.16\00:33:12.37
I had no hope. I had no home.
00:33:12.40\00:33:14.21
I had no future.
00:33:14.24\00:33:15.62
All I saw that was
left honestly was death.
00:33:15.65\00:33:18.21
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:18.24\00:33:19.59
Talk to me about
the gun and the arrest
00:33:19.62\00:33:23.53
and that whole situation?
00:33:23.56\00:33:25.71
On January 19th one of
my best friends had died.
00:33:25.74\00:33:29.40
Now it was--
they deemed a suicide
00:33:29.43\00:33:32.19
but after a couple of
years I actually learned that
00:33:32.22\00:33:34.95
it may have been hot shot
00:33:34.98\00:33:36.02
one of the drug
dealers had killed him.
00:33:36.05\00:33:37.22
But at the time I thought
that he had committed suicide
00:33:37.25\00:33:40.82
and it was something that
00:33:40.85\00:33:41.88
it had been on
my mind for a while
00:33:41.91\00:33:43.73
because I'm on the run.
00:33:43.76\00:33:45.08
Now mind you it's in
the middle of the winter,
00:33:45.11\00:33:46.28
I'm sleeping in my car at
night almost freezing to death.
00:33:46.31\00:33:49.32
And so I-- I
decided okay, this is it.
00:33:49.35\00:33:52.32
I'd been casing a
pharmacy for a while
00:33:52.35\00:33:54.25
because this pharmacy had
a large selection of opiates,
00:33:54.28\00:33:58.73
oxycontin, fentanyl, morphine,
they had a bunch of it.
00:33:58.76\00:34:02.13
And I knew that
pharmacist kept the key
00:34:02.16\00:34:03.89
around his neck on a chain.
00:34:03.92\00:34:05.58
He had two keys
because it was a double lock.
00:34:05.61\00:34:08.25
And my plan was to go get a gun,
00:34:08.28\00:34:10.40
I was gonna rob this guy
00:34:10.43\00:34:11.94
and I was gonna try
to odee of off the drugs.
00:34:11.97\00:34:14.42
I knew that odeeing of the drugs
00:34:14.45\00:34:15.83
was gonna be in my mind
00:34:15.86\00:34:17.69
an easier way to
die than anything else.
00:34:17.72\00:34:19.79
And so I called up a friend
00:34:19.82\00:34:22.19
and I said I want
you to meet me at lawn,
00:34:22.22\00:34:24.27
and I broke into
my father's house,
00:34:24.30\00:34:25.88
I stole a pistol
that he had and I left.
00:34:25.91\00:34:28.07
I left for town. I
picked up my friend.
00:34:28.10\00:34:29.56
And I as I left town, I
started thinking obviously,
00:34:29.59\00:34:33.49
I'm driving down the
road. My friend sees the gun,
00:34:33.52\00:34:35.52
he grabs the gun
and he cycles it.
00:34:35.55\00:34:37.61
Kind of toying with
it and he sets it down
00:34:37.64\00:34:39.42
and seven miles out of town
00:34:39.45\00:34:41.31
I see a glimmer
of white to my right.
00:34:41.34\00:34:44.18
And it was then I
realize that was a cop car
00:34:44.21\00:34:46.53
and so next you know I'm--
00:34:46.56\00:34:48.19
I've got cops
coming from one direction
00:34:48.22\00:34:49.93
and the other direction.
00:34:49.96\00:34:50.99
I've got the one
behind me and I pull over
00:34:51.02\00:34:53.62
to the side of the road
00:34:53.65\00:34:55.26
and that was kind
of climax right there.
00:34:55.29\00:34:57.21
Yeah.
00:34:57.24\00:34:58.27
I reached for that
gun and as soon as I reach
00:34:58.30\00:35:00.39
for that gun and
realize it's not there.
00:35:00.42\00:35:02.96
My co defendant the
passenger had taken that gun
00:35:02.99\00:35:05.52
and was in the process
of knocking the clip out
00:35:05.55\00:35:07.73
taking the round
out of the chamber
00:35:07.76\00:35:09.08
and throwing
underneath the seat.
00:35:09.11\00:35:11.13
And I'm screaming for that gun
00:35:11.16\00:35:12.61
because the cops are
there, I want to end it all.
00:35:12.64\00:35:14.57
I just didn't care anymore.
00:35:14.60\00:35:16.09
This is my way to get out of it.
00:35:16.12\00:35:17.71
I shoot that cop, they shoot me.
00:35:17.74\00:35:19.32
It's done, it's over.
00:35:19.35\00:35:20.63
Yeah, yeah, yeah, death wish.
00:35:20.66\00:35:23.04
But that didn't happen
00:35:23.07\00:35:24.56
because your friend
actually saved your life.
00:35:24.59\00:35:25.95
He did.
00:35:25.98\00:35:27.01
And save that
cop's life probably.
00:35:27.04\00:35:29.59
So you went to
prison? I went to prison.
00:35:29.62\00:35:31.57
Yeah, what happened in prison?
00:35:31.60\00:35:33.44
I'd been in jail
for over 5 months.
00:35:33.47\00:35:35.77
I get to prison
00:35:35.80\00:35:36.83
and quarantine in
Michigan is a little different.
00:35:36.86\00:35:38.73
You can't talk in your cell.
00:35:38.76\00:35:40.50
You're locked
down for 23 hours a day
00:35:40.53\00:35:42.30
except for meals you're
locked down essentially.
00:35:42.33\00:35:44.79
And while there I'd
been in that cell for 16 days
00:35:44.82\00:35:48.27
and now by this time
I'm completely sober.
00:35:48.30\00:35:50.52
I have no drugs in my
system and all I'm left with
00:35:50.55\00:35:53.00
is the memories of what I did.
00:35:53.03\00:35:55.26
And all the people, all
the damage is still there.
00:35:55.29\00:35:57.90
All the drugs are
gone, the numbing is gone
00:35:57.93\00:36:00.02
and I'm left with the
consequences of my actions
00:36:00.05\00:36:03.01
and that's a
heavyweight to bare,
00:36:03.04\00:36:04.83
especially when it's your family
00:36:04.86\00:36:06.10
that you did it too.
00:36:06.13\00:36:07.16
Because it's a reminder
every time you talk to them
00:36:07.19\00:36:09.77
or you see them
in the courtroom,
00:36:09.80\00:36:11.54
it was a reminder what
you did and so as I sat there
00:36:11.57\00:36:14.71
and I'm just
feeling this burden.
00:36:14.74\00:36:16.14
I'm thinking back to
my past where I came from.
00:36:16.17\00:36:19.36
You know I was a Seventh-day
Adventist pathfinder.
00:36:19.39\00:36:22.04
You know, I was a
child of God and I knew it
00:36:22.07\00:36:25.15
but how did I get to this point?
00:36:25.18\00:36:27.19
And that really that burden
was just sitting on my shoulders
00:36:27.22\00:36:30.02
and that weight
was extremely heavy.
00:36:30.05\00:36:34.23
Then and I know it was
God because he brought to mind
00:36:34.26\00:36:38.40
some of the things
He'd been doing in my life
00:36:38.43\00:36:40.22
in the face of that rebellion.
00:36:40.25\00:36:41.87
And as I'm thinking
about all the negative things
00:36:41.90\00:36:43.89
I did, I started
thinking about all the time
00:36:43.92\00:36:46.04
that he saved my life.
00:36:46.07\00:36:47.79
And all these memories
come flooding back to situations
00:36:47.82\00:36:50.99
that I overlook completely that.
00:36:51.02\00:36:53.45
You know somebody holding
a gun to the back of my head
00:36:53.48\00:36:55.62
in the backseat of my
car to rob me one night.
00:36:55.65\00:36:58.16
And I ripped him off,
00:36:58.19\00:37:00.88
you know, and it was
kind of a strange situation
00:37:00.91\00:37:02.91
but ended up with
$2 running from my car.
00:37:02.94\00:37:06.02
Two weeks later he
shot a cop in Grand Rapids,
00:37:06.05\00:37:08.45
he's serving a life sentence
00:37:08.48\00:37:09.52
in the Michigan
Department of Corrections now.
00:37:09.55\00:37:11.48
I remember that night
and I'm thinking about
00:37:11.51\00:37:13.70
all the times
that God stepped in
00:37:13.73\00:37:15.45
and was merciful to me.
00:37:15.48\00:37:16.55
A car accident
that I should have died
00:37:16.58\00:37:18.41
and I should
have hit these trees
00:37:18.44\00:37:20.06
inside of the road but my car
never even hit a single tree.
00:37:20.09\00:37:23.07
Somehow I ended up in the woods
25 yards beyond those trees
00:37:23.10\00:37:25.74
without a mark on my car until
I finally stopped 25 yards in.
00:37:25.77\00:37:29.69
I knew I should have died
by hitting those trees head on
00:37:29.72\00:37:32.32
but I never did.
00:37:32.35\00:37:33.59
And so there is
just my overdoses.
00:37:33.62\00:37:35.62
I mean I overdosed many times.
00:37:35.65\00:37:37.28
I go into seizure on the floor
00:37:37.31\00:37:39.33
and I'd flop around
like a fish in that seizure,
00:37:39.36\00:37:41.50
I get right back up
and use right after that.
00:37:41.53\00:37:44.47
And I had friends that had died
from an overdose but I didn't.
00:37:44.50\00:37:47.43
I didn't die from
cardiac arrest, nothing.
00:37:47.46\00:37:50.03
Yeah, so God is
bringing all this to you.
00:37:50.06\00:37:52.11
Absolutely.
00:37:52.14\00:37:53.17
And there is
something else in that prison
00:37:53.20\00:37:55.47
that kind of turned your heart
towards Him, and what's that?
00:37:55.50\00:37:59.41
Well, then that
night when I had been there
00:37:59.44\00:38:02.80
and Christ is really
bringing it home what I've done.
00:38:02.83\00:38:06.56
I got back up on my
knees that night and I decided
00:38:06.59\00:38:08.57
it was time that I make a choice
00:38:08.60\00:38:10.98
because there was--
there's only two choices
00:38:11.01\00:38:12.76
for me in there.
00:38:12.79\00:38:13.82
Either I'm going to
fight my way through prison
00:38:13.85\00:38:16.44
and end up serving
longer times or dying in prison
00:38:16.47\00:38:19.43
or I give my heart back to God.
00:38:19.46\00:38:21.17
And that was a really,
really risky thing for me to do.
00:38:21.20\00:38:23.95
But I decided that
what did I have to lose?
00:38:23.98\00:38:27.57
And so that night I
gave my heart to God.
00:38:27.60\00:38:29.40
I got on my knees and
I asked for forgiveness
00:38:29.43\00:38:31.34
for everything that I had done.
00:38:31.37\00:38:32.92
And I mean
everything that I had done.
00:38:32.95\00:38:35.45
And I gave my heart back to God.
00:38:35.48\00:38:37.63
And so I over the next couple
of years I saw the transition.
00:38:37.66\00:38:41.02
My heart began to change.
00:38:41.05\00:38:42.15
I began getting
back into my Bible.
00:38:42.18\00:38:43.98
My father sent me a
Conflict of the Ages set.
00:38:44.01\00:38:46.26
And so I started reading
that Conflict of the Ages set
00:38:46.29\00:38:48.96
and as I'm reading
that, I could see things
00:38:48.99\00:38:52.64
that I hadn't
seen in a long time.
00:38:52.67\00:38:53.79
And see I couldn't come right
back to my Bible immediately.
00:38:53.82\00:38:56.94
I was-- it was
still to hardhearted
00:38:56.97\00:38:59.67
but the conflict
set as I'm going through
00:38:59.70\00:39:02.10
that you know,
I'm reading about God
00:39:02.13\00:39:03.75
and His love and His providence
00:39:03.78\00:39:05.66
and so finally I
start studying the Bible.
00:39:05.69\00:39:08.82
But as I went
from prison to prison
00:39:08.85\00:39:11.34
I had the opportunity
to share and I did that.
00:39:11.37\00:39:14.04
But that created a
need as I'm sharing
00:39:14.07\00:39:16.39
with individuals what
I found and I'm holding
00:39:16.42\00:39:18.48
Bible study groups
from prison to prison.
00:39:18.51\00:39:21.84
I needed more so
I started writing
00:39:21.87\00:39:23.58
to pastor after
pastor with no response,
00:39:23.61\00:39:25.89
no response whatsoever.
00:39:25.92\00:39:27.20
And I mean letter after letter
even a pastors in the town
00:39:27.23\00:39:30.10
that I was in
would never respond.
00:39:30.13\00:39:32.78
But finally in 2010
after all these years
00:39:32.81\00:39:35.82
now my job, I have been holding
00:39:35.85\00:39:36.88
Bible studies at
all these facilities.
00:39:36.91\00:39:38.89
I'm watching
men, the number of men
00:39:38.92\00:39:41.34
from 10 to 25
guys in these groups.
00:39:41.37\00:39:43.91
We're having
awesome Bible studies
00:39:43.94\00:39:45.43
from the material we had.
00:39:45.46\00:39:47.58
But we couldn't get
volunteers in there very often,
00:39:47.61\00:39:50.06
vary rarely that we ever see
volunteers coming to prisons.
00:39:50.09\00:39:53.66
But then in 2010
I turned on my TV
00:39:53.69\00:39:56.77
and as I'm floating
through the channels
00:39:56.80\00:39:58.08
there was Three
Angels Broadcasting Network.
00:39:58.11\00:39:59.77
Praise God. Now it was--
00:39:59.80\00:40:01.09
I could see a wide smiling.
00:40:01.12\00:40:02.16
It was because
one of the programs
00:40:02.19\00:40:03.86
I watch was Bible
Alive and Books of the Book
00:40:03.89\00:40:07.37
and of course we had the Pillars
00:40:07.40\00:40:08.72
of Faith series
that was airing from 3ABN
00:40:08.75\00:40:11.53
and we had pastor Steven Bohr
00:40:11.56\00:40:14.55
and so I got to
see my family on TV
00:40:14.58\00:40:17.54
and finally I can
reconnect with my family
00:40:17.57\00:40:20.11
and I had been wanting too
for years, I'd been in prison
00:40:20.14\00:40:22.08
for five years up to this point.
00:40:22.11\00:40:23.93
And I've been
reaching out to my family
00:40:23.96\00:40:25.45
and got no response
and so when I see 3ABN,
00:40:25.48\00:40:28.95
it was there.
00:40:28.98\00:40:30.01
I had all the
material right in front of me.
00:40:30.04\00:40:32.98
Now Amazing
Facts had been sending
00:40:33.01\00:40:34.46
me Bible studies
to use in the prisons
00:40:34.49\00:40:37.08
which was awesome
and I needed 'em badly
00:40:37.11\00:40:39.78
because we didn't have Bibles.
00:40:39.81\00:40:41.38
We didn't have any types
of materials to really help.
00:40:41.41\00:40:44.55
So Amazing Facts
had help in that way
00:40:44.58\00:40:46.34
but when I had 3ABN I
had a source of material
00:40:46.37\00:40:49.62
that went beyond Bible studies.
00:40:49.65\00:40:52.10
And I had family
now, I had communion
00:40:52.13\00:40:54.77
you know, I can sit
here and communicate with--
00:40:54.80\00:40:57.86
with you guys in a
way that I couldn't
00:40:57.89\00:40:59.38
with anybody else
'cause the Holy Spirit
00:40:59.41\00:41:00.90
was working on my heart deeply
00:41:00.93\00:41:02.41
as I'm watching these programs.
00:41:02.44\00:41:04.14
Now I need to move you
along 'cause of my timings.
00:41:04.17\00:41:05.99
I've got so
wrapped up in the story,
00:41:06.02\00:41:07.41
I want to go to you, Dwight,
00:41:07.44\00:41:09.09
because somehow
obviously you gave your heart
00:41:09.12\00:41:12.51
to the Lord and
the Lord really began
00:41:12.54\00:41:14.21
to change your life around.
00:41:14.24\00:41:16.30
How did you guys meet?
00:41:16.33\00:41:18.54
And talk to me
little about the idea
00:41:18.57\00:41:21.35
of bringing on board
to Remnant Publication,
00:41:21.38\00:41:24.68
a prison guy with a pretty--
00:41:24.71\00:41:27.26
I mean he looks pretty good now
00:41:27.29\00:41:28.32
but this guy has
got a past you know,
00:41:28.35\00:41:29.90
he didn't just
drop out of the sky,
00:41:29.93\00:41:31.07
he's got a little history.
00:41:31.10\00:41:32.48
Walk me through
that experience, Dwight?
00:41:32.51\00:41:33.96
Well, and before I do
that I think there's something
00:41:33.99\00:41:37.20
that the viewers
need to know and probably
00:41:37.23\00:41:39.18
they already
know and that is this.
00:41:39.21\00:41:42.24
Greg had told me that
00:41:42.27\00:41:43.76
all the prisoners in
Michigan can view 3ABN
00:41:43.79\00:41:48.66
and I wasn't even aware of this.
00:41:48.69\00:41:51.57
And I mean, I've
been a fan of 3ABN
00:41:51.60\00:41:53.86
for a long, long time
00:41:53.89\00:41:55.32
but that's to me
one fantastic reason
00:41:55.35\00:41:59.43
why all the donors that
donate to keep 3ABN on the air
00:41:59.46\00:42:04.26
it's important
because here's a guy Greg
00:42:04.29\00:42:07.56
that didn't have any
life that wasn't Adventist.
00:42:07.59\00:42:10.76
But there's lots of
were never an Adventist
00:42:10.79\00:42:12.63
maybe never a Christian
00:42:12.66\00:42:14.05
but they still are able to watch
00:42:14.08\00:42:15.58
'cause it wasn't
just Greg watching 3ABN
00:42:15.61\00:42:17.27
these were other
prisoner that were--
00:42:17.30\00:42:19.46
They are giving
their hearts to Lord
00:42:19.49\00:42:20.85
and you work with
other prison ministries,
00:42:20.88\00:42:23.21
Lemuel and I mean
the thing that is it
00:42:23.24\00:42:26.35
3ABN does the tremendous
job not just to I call 'em
00:42:26.38\00:42:30.25
the movers and the
shakers that watch 3ABN.
00:42:30.28\00:42:32.25
But people that need--
00:42:32.28\00:42:34.49
You know, the gospel
00:42:34.52\00:42:35.66
and you're in those places.
00:42:35.69\00:42:37.40
Anyway, I just have to say
00:42:37.43\00:42:38.58
I think that's
amazing and don't stop.
00:42:38.61\00:42:40.90
Now for the
viewers don't stop giving
00:42:40.93\00:42:43.16
but what happened
was when Greg got out
00:42:43.19\00:42:46.82
we got a manuscript, a
partial manuscript from Greg
00:42:46.85\00:42:50.82
and my guy that does that,
00:42:50.85\00:42:54.57
his name is Chris.
00:42:54.60\00:42:55.63
He was looking
to the manuscript.
00:42:55.66\00:42:56.85
He said, man,
this I think it's gonna
00:42:56.88\00:42:57.94
be an awesome story.
00:42:57.97\00:42:59.54
And of course my past
you know, I never went
00:42:59.57\00:43:02.09
to prison I should have probably
00:43:02.12\00:43:03.45
but I did not do
well in my younger years
00:43:03.48\00:43:06.69
taking drugs same
as Greg but I can't say
00:43:06.72\00:43:09.67
I was smarter
but I did get away,
00:43:09.70\00:43:11.39
I never went to prison.
00:43:11.42\00:43:12.45
So anyways he did, I didn't
but I have a burden for people
00:43:12.48\00:43:16.54
that wherever we
come from you know,
00:43:16.57\00:43:19.07
I think, you know,
if my life could change
00:43:19.10\00:43:22.28
anybody's could well, this Chris
00:43:22.31\00:43:24.33
that does our
publishing work and stuff
00:43:24.36\00:43:26.18
he said Dwight
you got to read this.
00:43:26.21\00:43:28.15
I mean, I think we
should publish this book
00:43:28.18\00:43:30.35
and I read the part of
that manuscript and I say,
00:43:30.38\00:43:32.65
you know, I want to.
00:43:32.72\00:43:33.78
Well, so we read it.
00:43:33.81\00:43:35.14
We decided we were gonna
do it and then down the road
00:43:35.17\00:43:38.72
another three four months later
00:43:38.75\00:43:40.95
I'm looking for a sales person.
00:43:40.98\00:43:42.97
And I had been
looking for almost year
00:43:43.00\00:43:44.87
but you don't just
want to find anybody
00:43:44.90\00:43:47.16
they have to have a passion.
00:43:47.19\00:43:48.71
They have to have a talent.
00:43:48.74\00:43:50.40
And they have to
believe in what they're doing
00:43:50.43\00:43:52.47
and they have to
know about the book.
00:43:52.50\00:43:54.57
Well, I told Chris I said,
00:43:54.60\00:43:56.39
you've been keeping
up with this Greg guy.
00:43:56.42\00:43:58.28
I said, you know, with
what I've read in there
00:43:58.31\00:44:00.38
this guy is a
student of the scriptures
00:44:00.41\00:44:02.96
of the Spirit of Prophecy.
00:44:02.99\00:44:04.48
I mean he's got
a lot of knowledge
00:44:04.51\00:44:06.48
I said, wonder if
he's got any kind of job
00:44:06.51\00:44:08.60
'cause I had no clue,
00:44:08.63\00:44:10.12
if Greg was even in
Michigan at the time.
00:44:10.15\00:44:12.30
And anyways Chris called him up
00:44:12.33\00:44:14.15
and so I ended calling Greg
00:44:14.18\00:44:15.77
and I started
asking him questions
00:44:15.80\00:44:17.57
got to know little
bit about the story
00:44:17.60\00:44:19.84
and I said, hey
would you be interested
00:44:19.87\00:44:21.87
in working with us at Remnant?
00:44:21.90\00:44:23.74
So anyway long story short--
00:44:23.77\00:44:26.54
I interviewed Greg and
'cause he's a decisive guy
00:44:26.57\00:44:29.61
wouldn't got done he
said and I said well,
00:44:29.64\00:44:31.70
what do you think? He
said, I'd like it, I say well,
00:44:31.73\00:44:33.27
I like that. I like to try out.
00:44:33.30\00:44:35.24
I just have-- I just
feel there's a kindred spirit
00:44:35.27\00:44:38.19
and I just feel
you love the Lord
00:44:38.22\00:44:39.59
and right now I
don't care about your past
00:44:39.62\00:44:41.95
as long as you keep
your eyes in the Lord.
00:44:41.98\00:44:43.34
Yeah, amen.
00:44:43.37\00:44:44.40
He said, I'll be there.
00:44:44.43\00:44:45.46
I can be there in next week.
00:44:45.49\00:44:46.80
Yeah, so the prison record thing
00:44:46.83\00:44:48.92
did not turn you up,
00:44:48.95\00:44:49.98
didn't dissuade
you in a kind of way?
00:44:50.01\00:44:51.57
You know what?
00:44:51.60\00:44:52.65
C.A. I-- we've had
probably five of six people
00:44:52.68\00:44:55.85
in the 30 years that we
since I've started Remnant
00:44:55.88\00:44:59.33
at least five or six people
that have had prison records.
00:44:59.36\00:45:03.47
And here's I look at it
00:45:03.50\00:45:07.03
'cause I look at it
back in my younger days
00:45:07.06\00:45:09.64
and trouble that I got into.
00:45:09.67\00:45:11.61
But I will tell
you from experience
00:45:11.64\00:45:16.16
that people like Greg and others
00:45:16.19\00:45:18.00
that hit rock bottom
and they know they need
00:45:18.03\00:45:21.37
a savior that
can save them outside
00:45:21.40\00:45:23.89
of themselves
'cause it isn't about them.
00:45:23.92\00:45:25.95
They become the
strongest warriors for Christ.
00:45:25.98\00:45:31.80
So to me prison
means nothing to me
00:45:31.83\00:45:34.46
I suppose if he
kill 30 people you know,
00:45:34.49\00:45:37.04
I'm not sure that
it might be little
00:45:37.07\00:45:39.14
tough to have them at Remnant.
00:45:39.17\00:45:40.51
So there might
be different things
00:45:40.54\00:45:41.98
but as a total picture
people that are in prison
00:45:42.01\00:45:44.63
are people have
gotten in trouble,
00:45:44.66\00:45:45.87
they hit rock bottom.
00:45:45.90\00:45:46.98
They give their hearts to Lord.
00:45:47.01\00:45:48.21
They are more passionate.
00:45:48.24\00:45:50.83
They work harder
because they know
00:45:50.86\00:45:53.05
they never can pay.
00:45:53.08\00:45:54.65
we can never
merit our salvation.
00:45:54.68\00:45:56.70
We really can't pay
but I wake up everyday
00:45:56.73\00:45:59.37
saying, Lord,
what can I do today
00:45:59.40\00:46:00.52
because I love you some
much because before I was that
00:46:00.55\00:46:03.65
and Greg and others like that.
00:46:03.68\00:46:05.20
What can I do?
00:46:05.23\00:46:06.67
I was a nobody and
look what you've done to me.
00:46:06.70\00:46:08.97
Those were the best. Yeah, yeah.
00:46:09.00\00:46:10.76
Now when I got out immediately
I started doing literature
00:46:10.79\00:46:13.85
evangelism because that
was I didn't have a job.
00:46:13.88\00:46:16.29
The job I had lined up.
Oh, you do love the Lord.
00:46:16.32\00:46:17.81
That's right.
00:46:17.84\00:46:19.57
The job I had lined up fell
through and somebody told me
00:46:19.60\00:46:22.84
you should be a
literature evangelist.
00:46:22.87\00:46:24.22
And so that's why I start doing,
00:46:24.25\00:46:25.54
I was an independent
literature evangelist
00:46:25.57\00:46:27.19
so I got two cases of
books and I hit the doors.
00:46:27.22\00:46:29.89
And I just started sharing
what God had done in my life.
00:46:29.92\00:46:32.28
But then I'd always
had a burden for prisoners.
00:46:32.31\00:46:35.12
Now even when I was in prison,
00:46:35.15\00:46:36.34
I was doing
literature evangelism,
00:46:36.37\00:46:37.63
I just didn't know what it was.
00:46:37.66\00:46:39.10
But when I got out of
prison, I said you know what,
00:46:39.13\00:46:41.03
these guys need material.
00:46:41.06\00:46:42.26
One of the biggest things
00:46:42.29\00:46:43.33
we didn't have in
there was material.
00:46:43.36\00:46:45.78
What we did have was garbage,
00:46:45.81\00:46:47.04
I mean trash. Yeah.
00:46:47.07\00:46:48.26
Whether it was bad translations
00:46:48.29\00:46:49.82
or just poor
qualities so that's when I--
00:46:49.85\00:46:52.38
I formed a ministry
called Conviction Ministries
00:46:52.41\00:46:54.78
Incorporated and
we receive donations
00:46:54.81\00:46:57.29
and all those donations
00:46:57.32\00:46:58.40
go into providing
Bibles for prisoners.
00:46:58.43\00:47:00.60
Now there's
different requirements
00:47:00.63\00:47:03.34
from prison to prison
but one thing I realized
00:47:03.37\00:47:05.30
was that almost
always publishers
00:47:05.33\00:47:07.80
were allowed to
send their own products.
00:47:07.83\00:47:10.89
And so I contacted
Remnant Publications
00:47:10.92\00:47:14.31
on behalf of
Conviction Ministries
00:47:14.34\00:47:16.11
to see if they would give
00:47:16.14\00:47:17.37
me a discount on
the Remnant study Bible.
00:47:17.40\00:47:19.64
I'd seen a lot study
Bible but I really like
00:47:19.67\00:47:21.92
the Remnant study
Bible because of the study
00:47:21.95\00:47:24.71
guides in the back
the study material.
00:47:24.74\00:47:27.21
I talked to Remnant,
they said, no problem
00:47:27.24\00:47:29.59
we'll give you that
discount and so I started
00:47:29.62\00:47:31.10
sending in these Bibles
that's how I got connected
00:47:31.13\00:47:33.26
with Chris at Remnant
and that's how I sent Chris
00:47:33.29\00:47:36.45
my intro page to the manuscript
00:47:36.48\00:47:39.31
which led to more but ultimately
00:47:39.34\00:47:41.29
since I've been working
at Remnant Publications,
00:47:41.32\00:47:43.44
Dwight and I began talking
00:47:43.47\00:47:44.65
about the need
for this material.
00:47:44.68\00:47:46.53
And we decided to work together
00:47:46.56\00:47:50.24
and Dwight and
Remnant Publications
00:47:50.27\00:47:52.30
are going to put
an outreach Bible
00:47:52.33\00:47:54.64
for ministries or
prison ministry evangelism
00:47:54.67\00:47:58.90
that is going to contain
the material that you find
00:47:58.93\00:48:01.99
in the rear of the
Remnant study Bible.
00:48:02.02\00:48:04.04
It's going to be
in a smaller Bible,
00:48:04.07\00:48:05.75
so that we can use it in
ministries at a lower cost.
00:48:05.78\00:48:09.05
Praise God. Praise God.
00:48:09.08\00:48:10.36
But that brings up a challenge.
00:48:10.39\00:48:12.39
We have to raise the
funds to be able to do that.
00:48:12.42\00:48:14.22
Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:14.25\00:48:15.28
We're going to talk
about it just a little bit
00:48:15.31\00:48:16.34
but that-- first of all
that's just incredibly exciting.
00:48:16.37\00:48:19.80
I say you must, you
know, it's fun how the Lord,
00:48:19.83\00:48:21.56
I kind of say that
how the Lord prepares you.
00:48:21.59\00:48:23.82
You were accustom to
getting a supply of something
00:48:23.85\00:48:27.14
and then sell it
00:48:27.17\00:48:29.21
and that's what
literature evangelism is.
00:48:29.24\00:48:31.18
You get your supply
and then you sell it
00:48:31.21\00:48:33.33
and you live with that.
00:48:33.36\00:48:34.39
So you've done that
that's nothing new for you
00:48:34.42\00:48:36.76
because you've got a supplier
00:48:36.79\00:48:39.27
and then you're the
middleman and you sell it.
00:48:39.30\00:48:40.96
That's basically what that is.
00:48:40.99\00:48:43.31
I've tried, you know,
LE work not cut out for,
00:48:43.34\00:48:47.66
I just think skin
to thin and I just--
00:48:47.69\00:48:50.80
it takes a
special calling, it is.
00:48:50.83\00:48:52.10
It takes a special
calling and with Greg
00:48:52.13\00:48:53.99
what's pretty neat
if you think about it.
00:48:54.02\00:48:55.41
You know, your talents,
his talents are in sales,
00:48:55.44\00:48:58.93
he loves people
but the thing it is.
00:48:58.96\00:49:01.33
You are selling
drugs that you don't need.
00:49:01.36\00:49:03.45
Now he's selling material
that everybody does need.
00:49:03.48\00:49:06.49
Yeah, yeah, you're
kind of redeeming the time.
00:49:06.52\00:49:09.13
That's it. That's a great thing.
00:49:09.16\00:49:10.75
Tell me from your perspective
about this new Bible,
00:49:10.78\00:49:13.44
Dwight, because first of all
00:49:13.47\00:49:14.52
you are an inventive guy.
00:49:14.55\00:49:15.58
You know, you always
got something cooking.
00:49:15.61\00:49:17.87
Talk to me a
little bit about that?
00:49:17.90\00:49:18.96
Well, the Remnant study
Bible is almost 1,800 pages
00:49:18.99\00:49:22.19
because we have a
Spirit of Prophecy.
00:49:22.22\00:49:23.59
It's a study Bible.
00:49:23.62\00:49:25.56
I know I'm little bias
but I believe it's a best
00:49:25.59\00:49:27.56
study Bible that's
ever been produced.
00:49:27.59\00:49:29.64
When we worked with
Nelson, they told it was one
00:49:29.67\00:49:32.19
of their very premier
Bibles they've ever, ever done.
00:49:32.22\00:49:34.70
The back matter, you've got
the 2300 days from the Bible.
00:49:34.73\00:49:37.24
You've got parts of
the sanctuary equipment
00:49:37.27\00:49:39.96
and while that works
for us in a practical way.
00:49:39.99\00:49:42.37
There is-- two three
pages on how sin ever began
00:49:42.40\00:49:46.37
and why that is because
when people don't feel good
00:49:46.40\00:49:48.71
about themselves or they want --
00:49:48.74\00:49:50.54
or somebody --
with so many problems.
00:49:50.57\00:49:52.53
If God is a loving God, why?
00:49:52.56\00:49:54.23
And so that goes in that
00:49:54.26\00:49:55.36
and then we have a
Bible chain references
00:49:55.39\00:49:56.90
which is the 26 topics--
00:49:56.93\00:49:58.53
They go back to that Bible
00:49:58.56\00:49:59.72
so the thing it
is that we said well,
00:49:59.75\00:50:01.19
how do we get a
Bible that's affordable?
00:50:01.22\00:50:04.98
For people who can
get 'em into the prisons
00:50:05.01\00:50:06.43
but yet a nice
not some cheap Bible.
00:50:06.46\00:50:09.33
And we said well we
can take back matter
00:50:09.36\00:50:12.26
from the Remnant study Bible
and that's only 40 some pages.
00:50:12.29\00:50:16.09
And we'll stoop with that Bible
00:50:16.12\00:50:17.48
chain reference which is amazing
00:50:17.51\00:50:18.79
'cause it's
strictly Bible and you know
00:50:18.82\00:50:20.91
about the Sabbath,
The State of Death,
00:50:20.94\00:50:22.16
but also about Christian dress
00:50:22.19\00:50:23.55
being lazy just
the walk with God,
00:50:23.58\00:50:26.29
many topics that
others don't have.
00:50:26.32\00:50:28.35
Put that into
Bible that's the size
00:50:28.38\00:50:30.51
of about like--
this Bible right here.
00:50:30.54\00:50:32.04
it's maybe only
a thousand pages.
00:50:32.07\00:50:34.07
Well, that's 800 pages.
You're saving for every Bible.
00:50:34.10\00:50:37.14
Which paper is the big amount,
00:50:37.17\00:50:39.09
if you look at this two Bibles--
00:50:39.12\00:50:40.50
Yeah, well, let me hold
this-- This is the thick boy.
00:50:40.53\00:50:43.83
And I have this one
myself but this is big thick
00:50:43.86\00:50:47.16
and for mass distribution
this is not the deal
00:50:47.19\00:50:49.49
So you want some
little more tighter,
00:50:49.52\00:50:50.84
little more compact.
00:50:50.87\00:50:51.90
Something like this.
00:50:51.93\00:50:53.43
Something like that if you look
00:50:53.46\00:50:54.49
that's smaller and thinner.
00:50:54.52\00:50:55.55
Quality but still
is, is manageable.
00:50:55.58\00:50:57.61
Absolutely.
00:50:57.64\00:50:58.67
and this is you can
see the thickness here.
00:50:58.70\00:51:01.09
And so you've got
everything in that,
00:51:01.12\00:51:03.02
in that, in the back of
that, it's still all there.
00:51:03.05\00:51:06.62
So they can read
where they can read
00:51:06.65\00:51:08.45
those scriptures and
they can do their studies
00:51:08.48\00:51:11.22
and yet it can be affordable.
00:51:11.25\00:51:12.50
And that's what we want to do.
00:51:12.53\00:51:13.63
I mean, we've
got to get to the--
00:51:13.66\00:51:15.16
I mean, we know the
world's ending soon.
00:51:15.19\00:51:17.42
We've got to
get to these people.
00:51:17.45\00:51:18.73
As a person of course
we do our prison show,
00:51:18.76\00:51:20.60
we worked a lot in Indiana.
00:51:20.63\00:51:22.45
You've got a population
of men and women of course
00:51:22.48\00:51:25.32
who've got nothing
but time on their hand.
00:51:25.35\00:51:27.25
They're reviewing their own life
00:51:27.28\00:51:29.56
and it's a perfect season
00:51:29.59\00:51:31.52
to bring Christ
into the picture.
00:51:31.55\00:51:33.12
And when these
guys latch on to Jesus
00:51:33.15\00:51:35.11
they bite down hard
00:51:35.14\00:51:36.57
and they really
believe what they are doing.
00:51:36.60\00:51:38.20
So your passion is well placed
00:51:38.23\00:51:40.60
because there is a
consumer there that needs Jesus.
00:51:40.63\00:51:44.12
Now, our time is
getting away from us.
00:51:44.15\00:51:45.90
I want to go to the address roll
00:51:45.93\00:51:47.42
for the Remnant Publications.
00:51:47.45\00:51:48.67
You may want to
00:51:48.70\00:51:50.55
first of all
invest in this project
00:51:50.58\00:51:52.03
which is a
worthy, worthy project.
00:51:52.06\00:51:55.41
Get one for
yourself or you may want Greg
00:51:55.44\00:51:58.51
to come and
talk to your groupies
00:51:58.54\00:52:00.13
very articulate
and very passionate.
00:52:00.16\00:52:01.99
Should you want to make contact
00:52:02.02\00:52:03.10
with Remnant Publications,
00:52:03.13\00:52:04.21
here's the
information that you will need.
00:52:04.24\00:52:07.74
If you would
like to contact Greg
00:52:07.77\00:52:09.28
or learn more
about this ministry,
00:52:09.31\00:52:11.20
then you can write to
00:52:11.23\00:52:12.44
Conviction
Ministries Incorporated,
00:52:12.47\00:52:14.44
P.O. Box 577,
Saranac, Michigan 48881.
00:52:14.47\00:52:19.93
That's Conviction
Ministries Incorporated,
00:52:19.96\00:52:22.70
P.O. Box 577,
Saranac, Michigan 48881.
00:52:22.73\00:52:27.98
You can call 616-987-0234.
00:52:28.01\00:52:32.17
That 616-987-0234
00:52:32.20\00:52:36.67
or you can visit them online
at convictionministries.com.
00:52:36.70\00:52:41.56
That's convictionministries.com.
00:52:41.59\00:52:45.22
Contact them today.
00:52:45.25\00:52:46.58
They'd love to hear from you.
00:52:46.61\00:52:48.14