Hello and welcome to 3ABN Today.
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My name is C.A. Murray
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and allow me once
again to thank you
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for sharing this
part of your day with us,
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for being a part
of this ministry,
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part of our viewer-ship,
part of this group of people
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that is seeking to
lift up the name of Jesus,
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and to ready the world
for our soon coming savior.
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Thank you for your
love, your prayers,
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and your
financial support of 3ABN.
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I want you to give ear this day
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because we got a
very interesting subject.
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We're going to talk
about among other things,
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Emotional Intelligence.
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And just that very
term I find very interesting
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and very intriguing.
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And the person is
going to help us wade through
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what all of that means,
what emotional intelligence
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is all about is
Dr. Cletus Bertin.
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Good doctor,
good to have you here.
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Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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Yeah.
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You'll hear a
very interesting lilt
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in his voice that I've
detected is a combination
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of a number of
different influences.
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One is a native of St Lucia.
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Yes. Studied in Trinidad.
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So that I can hear.
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Spend some time in Barbados,
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the land of my
father, I can hear that too.
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And also did his graduate study,
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his doctoral work in London.
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So all of that is in the pot
and you hear that in his voice.
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So if you hear what
sounds just a little different
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than what we're used to hearing,
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it is that
admixture of influences
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from the many
places that he has worked,
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and served, and studied.
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Now as I said, we're
going to be talking about
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emotional intelligence,
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we're going to walk
our way through that.
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The reason that brings him
from the warmth of St Lucia
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to the cold of
Southern Illinois,
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that he is going to
be doing a presentation
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at the Thompsonville
Church this weekend.
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And we're very, very
excited because he's going
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to be telling us about
emotional intelligence.
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My wife Irma is the
health and tempus leader
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for the church.
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And we were at ASI
in Barbados last year
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and heard his presentation
and she insisted that he come,
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even in the cold...
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to be with us.
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So we're going to be
talking about that today.
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And before we
un-package his story,
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Sandra Entermann,
our good friend is here
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and we're going to ask
her this time to bring us
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some really beautiful music.
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She's going to be
singing "For You Love Me."
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I will love you always Jesus
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I have a place in Your heart
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Gentle shepherd, I remember
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Mercy you shown from the start
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For You love me, precious Jesus
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You have saved me
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I am Yours
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And I will lead You
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Always Jesus
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All my possessions are Yours
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Loving Father
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Friend and brother
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Good things you give
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You're the source
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For you love me, precious Jesus
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You have saved me, I am yours
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This prayer I'm breathing
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God never leave me
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You give joy to
this heart of mine
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Through
understanding my mind is lurking
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From Jesus to an awful time
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For you love me precious Jesus
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You have saved me
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I am Yours
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The antidote
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For hopelessness is You
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You're in my mind
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I love You
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You're my God
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And you put joy within my heart
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On me You put Your mind
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There's no one
else just like You
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You're my God
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I adore You precious Jesus
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I chose the best friend
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You're the one.
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Amen and amen.
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Thank you so
much Sandra Entermann.
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Sandra of course
is from Australia
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and we always
love when she comes
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in to record music.
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Sandra has, dare I say,
an eclectic sense of humor.
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She is a very funny person.
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Loves fun, loves the Lord,
loves to sing for the Lord,
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and whenever she comes,
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we always have a
very, very good time
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when she is here.
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My guest is Dr Cletus K. Bertin.
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And I'm going to read his title
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because we were
struggling to get this
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on his name simply
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because this may be the longest
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and most impressive
title I've ever run into.
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You work in the office
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of the Director
General Organization
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of Eastern
Caribbean State Secretary
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as Head of Institutional
and Strengthening Project.
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Yes. Amen.
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Amen. What is that?
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Well, it's very much a
project in the secretariat
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of the organization of
Eastern Caribbean States.
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As you know the
Eastern Caribbean
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is made up of nine member states
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that form an
organization for economic,
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political corporation.
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And the secretariat
is based in St Lucia.
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And so the office
of the director general
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is undertaking a project
to strengthen the institution.
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Because there are
reforms happening,
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changes in terms of
the economic arrangement
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between the countries.
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We have recently
formed an economic union
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on the nine islands
just like the European Union.
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And so there is need
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for the
organization to transform itself
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to better serve
the member states.
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And so that's the
project that I am heading
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in the office of the
director general at the OECS,
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Organization of
Eastern States Secretariat.
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Impressive.
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Now we're talking
about Eastern Caribbean,
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so it's Barbados?
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Barbados is actually located
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in the Eastern
Caribbean but not part of it.
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But not part of it. Yeah.
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So we're talking about
from Anguilla, Montserrat,
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Antigua and Barbados,
Saint Kitts and Nevis,
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Grenada, Dominica, St. Lucia,
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Saint Vincent
and the Grenadines.
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So you're
heading right down the...
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Right down, right. Yes.
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British Virgin Islands as well.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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The Eastern
Caribbean chain of islands.
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Barbados is in discussions
to join at some point,
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that would be the remaining
English speaking Island
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in the Eastern
Caribbean obviously,
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the French speaking
ones as well, Martinique,
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Guadeloupe in between.
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But of the
English speaking islands,
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it's Barbados is the only one
which is not part of the OECS.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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I've been to some of them
and preached on many of them.
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And it's lovely out there.
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And you being a
native of St Lucia,
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you are the
beneficiary of all of that.
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I want to talk to you about,
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just before we talk
about emotional intelligence of
00:10:04.23\00:10:05.57
what you're doing
now because in looking at
00:10:05.60\00:10:08.60
where you've been
and what you've done,
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you've done a lot of work
in a lot of places and study,
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but tell me
little about growing up.
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Did you grow up
in an Adventist home?
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I would say semi.
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My grandmother
came to live there first
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when I was in my early
teens and she was an Adventist.
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So we got that influence.
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My extended family
are all Adventists,
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from my mother's hometown
in Soufrière in St Lucia,
00:10:30.96\00:10:34.60
Adventists, the lender family,
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many of them are here in
the US and in the UK as well.
00:10:36.40\00:10:40.37
So my extended family
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has a strong
Adventists influence.
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And most of them are Adventists.
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My immediate
family back then were not,
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and when my grandmother
came to live at first,
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she was that
Adventists influence.
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And we always had that
sort of interaction of church
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through extended
family inviting us
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and so on and most specifically
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my grandmother's
presence in our home.
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Yeah. Did you have
brothers and sisters?
00:11:03.53\00:11:05.09
Yeah, two brothers. I'm
the youngest of three boys.
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The baby. Yes.
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They say that the baby
sometimes breaks new ground
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and does other kinds of things.
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You can never tell what
that baby is going to do.
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In some cases.
00:11:15.54\00:11:18.04
But your grandmother
00:11:18.07\00:11:19.41
had a strong
influence on your life.
00:11:19.44\00:11:20.78
Well, yes, indeed.
00:11:20.84\00:11:22.18
I mean, she
taught us many things.
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She taught me how to swim.
00:11:23.58\00:11:24.91
She taught us how to be
fluent in the creole dialect,
00:11:24.95\00:11:28.05
the French patois,
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we weren't that
fluent in it before she came.
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Delivered this to our parents
that was their code language.
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And so they kept it
away from us explicitly.
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So my grandmother brought
that influence of the creole
00:11:38.43\00:11:41.96
and making sure that
we were fluent with it.
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And eventually
followed her to church one day
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and attended a
crusade and then another one
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that same year,
and then got baptized.
00:11:50.37\00:11:52.24
Yes.
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Now how old were
you about that time?
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About 18, going on 19.
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I'd just started university,
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I did my first year
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of University of the West Indies
00:11:59.11\00:12:00.52
in St Lucia.
00:12:00.55\00:12:01.88
There are three
campuses in Barbados,
00:12:01.92\00:12:03.25
Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago.
00:12:03.28\00:12:05.12
So you could do your
first year or second year
00:12:05.15\00:12:08.12
in the country where
you live and then go across
00:12:08.16\00:12:10.23
to accomplish
third year to complete.
00:12:10.26\00:12:11.93
Oh, I see.
00:12:11.96\00:12:13.29
So I did my first
year, got baptized
00:12:13.33\00:12:15.23
and then the very
next month went over
00:12:15.26\00:12:16.97
to Barbados to
complete my first degree.
00:12:17.03\00:12:19.57
Coming to the Lord,
giving your heart to the Lord,
00:12:19.60\00:12:21.44
coming to the Adventist church,
00:12:21.47\00:12:22.80
did it affect
what you were studying,
00:12:22.84\00:12:24.17
how you were studying,
00:12:24.21\00:12:25.54
what you were doing at the time?
00:12:25.57\00:12:26.94
Not particularly because
in terms of the lifestyle
00:12:26.98\00:12:29.54
and so on, it's
fairly consistent.
00:12:29.58\00:12:31.61
My studies were in management.
00:12:31.65\00:12:34.18
Obviously the
University of West Indies
00:12:34.22\00:12:35.78
which is a non
Adventists institution
00:12:35.82\00:12:38.62
but what made a huge difference
00:12:38.65\00:12:40.52
was the presence
of an organization
00:12:40.56\00:12:42.86
called Advent Fellowship.
00:12:42.89\00:12:44.73
And so I was very
privileged to have
00:12:44.76\00:12:46.66
as my first fellowship
00:12:46.70\00:12:48.56
into the
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:12:48.60\00:12:50.53
Advent Fellowship.
00:12:50.60\00:12:52.30
The presence at
the Cave Hill Campus
00:12:52.33\00:12:53.80
in Barbados,
00:12:53.87\00:12:55.20
there were senior
mentors and other students
00:12:55.24\00:12:57.24
who are all Adventists
from different islands
00:12:57.27\00:13:01.48
but studying together at
a non-Adventist institution.
00:13:01.51\00:13:04.25
So it is a vibrant
sort of a youth ministry.
00:13:04.28\00:13:08.48
So we fellowship
together on Friday evenings,
00:13:08.52\00:13:10.99
went to church
together on Sabbath or outdoors,
00:13:11.02\00:13:13.66
nature parks, whatever,
and sort of kept that bondage.
00:13:13.69\00:13:16.83
It is an
excellent support mechanism.
00:13:16.86\00:13:18.59
I was going to say so,
00:13:18.63\00:13:20.00
because though
you had to leave home,
00:13:20.03\00:13:21.40
you were
surrounded by like believers.
00:13:21.43\00:13:23.26
Yes, yes, yes.
00:13:23.33\00:13:25.07
And indeed even
roommate of my, my very good,
00:13:25.10\00:13:28.27
my very best
friend from way back
00:13:28.30\00:13:30.61
who is not an Adventist
00:13:30.67\00:13:32.01
but we have a
tremendous spiritual bond
00:13:32.04\00:13:34.44
of Anthony Buske.
00:13:34.48\00:13:35.81
And to this day we would discuss
00:13:35.84\00:13:37.85
and pray together and disagree
obviously on some issues
00:13:37.88\00:13:42.22
but we were very much a
support for each other as well.
00:13:42.25\00:13:44.72
Great.
00:13:44.75\00:13:46.09
Now did you finish
your studies in Barbados?
00:13:46.12\00:13:47.46
Yes.
00:13:47.52\00:13:48.86
My first degree in
Barbados and went back to
00:13:48.89\00:13:50.39
St Lucia to work.
00:13:50.43\00:13:51.79
Yes. And worked how long?
00:13:51.83\00:13:53.16
For four years, and then
went back to study again,
00:13:53.19\00:13:56.36
this time to
Trinidad and Tobago,
00:13:56.40\00:13:58.40
the University of West Indies,
00:13:58.43\00:14:00.77
the campus in Trinidad,
and similar vein of study
00:14:00.84\00:14:04.14
in management
but specialize in law
00:14:04.21\00:14:06.41
and information
systems, integration technology.
00:14:06.44\00:14:09.38
And then was, I
had a good opportunity
00:14:09.41\00:14:12.21
to then be the president
00:14:12.25\00:14:13.72
of Advent Fellowship
at the Trinidad campus,
00:14:13.75\00:14:16.69
the first
experience in Advent Fellowship
00:14:16.72\00:14:19.72
as a new convert, so
to speak in Barbados,
00:14:19.75\00:14:24.33
and then in Trinidad
four years later as president
00:14:24.36\00:14:27.10
and assisting
with the administration
00:14:27.13\00:14:29.26
of the organization.
00:14:29.30\00:14:30.63
So you were able to help nurture
00:14:30.67\00:14:32.70
the organization
that nurtured you?
00:14:32.73\00:14:35.07
In a sense, yes. In a sense.
00:14:35.10\00:14:37.67
Were you married yet?
00:14:37.71\00:14:39.04
Got married
after my first degree,
00:14:39.07\00:14:40.64
after coming back from Barbados,
00:14:40.68\00:14:42.08
in my early 20s, got married
and then we worked for a while
00:14:42.11\00:14:46.18
and then we both
went to study in Trinidad.
00:14:46.21\00:14:48.12
Oh, so you both
were studying together.
00:14:48.15\00:14:49.48
Yes, yes, in Trinidad.
00:14:49.52\00:14:50.85
Good Adventist girl,
no doubt. Absolutely.
00:14:50.89\00:14:55.12
So you're in Trinidad,
working on your master?
00:14:55.16\00:14:57.73
Yes. You finish that there?
00:14:57.76\00:14:59.19
Yes, finish in
Trinidad, went back to St Lucia.
00:14:59.23\00:15:02.53
So in your mind,
always to come back home.
00:15:02.56\00:15:03.90
You never
thinking about going off
00:15:03.97\00:15:05.30
and staying some place?
00:15:05.33\00:15:06.67
Not particularly.
00:15:06.70\00:15:08.04
No, till this day, no.
00:15:08.07\00:15:09.44
Yeah.
00:15:09.47\00:15:10.81
So went back to St
Lucia to work again,
00:15:10.84\00:15:12.24
worked for about
three to four years
00:15:12.27\00:15:13.88
in the Prime Minister's office,
doing a public sector reform
00:15:13.91\00:15:16.95
and change
management what have you,
00:15:16.98\00:15:19.18
and then I recognize the
need for the advancement,
00:15:19.21\00:15:22.42
professional that is.
00:15:22.45\00:15:24.49
And so looked to London
and registered in a PhD program
00:15:24.52\00:15:28.49
at the City
University Business School
00:15:28.52\00:15:30.16
in London.
00:15:30.23\00:15:31.56
So you went all the way
back across went to London.
00:15:31.59\00:15:32.93
Back to London. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:32.96\00:15:35.00
And study there
for your PhD. Yes.
00:15:35.03\00:15:36.46
So your PhD. is in?
00:15:36.50\00:15:38.60
Well, it's a long title,
as you know these things are.
00:15:38.63\00:15:41.04
But the short version
00:15:41.07\00:15:42.40
is Information Technology
and Change Management.
00:15:42.44\00:15:45.34
Really looking at
00:15:45.37\00:15:46.74
organizational
change management,
00:15:46.78\00:15:48.11
how organizations change
00:15:48.14\00:15:49.94
in terms of processes,
structures, procedures,
00:15:50.01\00:15:53.38
and why some change efforts fail
00:15:53.42\00:15:55.72
and why some succeed.
00:15:55.75\00:15:57.55
And the same with
information technology,
00:15:57.59\00:15:59.09
looking at the introduction
of web based systems,
00:15:59.12\00:16:03.76
e-commerce, e-government,
00:16:03.79\00:16:05.19
and why some initiatives
fail and why some succeed.
00:16:05.23\00:16:09.06
So there is
actually a field of study
00:16:09.10\00:16:11.17
that talks about
how to initiate change
00:16:11.20\00:16:14.17
and how to make
it go successful?
00:16:14.24\00:16:15.67
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:16:15.70\00:16:17.04
There's a huge body of work,
00:16:17.11\00:16:18.44
a huge body of
literature on change management,
00:16:18.47\00:16:20.51
as this thing for management
00:16:20.58\00:16:22.28
or business management
or management studies.
00:16:22.31\00:16:25.08
So it's a sort of
specialist for you looking
00:16:25.11\00:16:26.82
at the dynamics of change.
00:16:26.85\00:16:28.95
And also the
spread of innovation,
00:16:28.98\00:16:32.35
any new practice or
any new policy system.
00:16:32.39\00:16:35.82
And again, the
mechanics, the dynamics
00:16:35.86\00:16:38.26
why some initiatives
fail and why some succeed.
00:16:38.29\00:16:41.96
Well, I did not know that,
that was a course of study.
00:16:42.00\00:16:44.90
Yes.
00:16:44.93\00:16:47.64
You got your
doctorate, back to St Lucia.
00:16:47.67\00:16:49.74
Indeed.
00:16:49.77\00:16:53.54
I see a pattern here.
Yeah, there is indeed.
00:16:53.58\00:16:55.84
And mostly then
because I also need
00:16:55.88\00:16:57.75
to get some assistance
from the government of St Lucia
00:16:57.78\00:16:59.81
for that leg of my studies.
00:16:59.85\00:17:02.18
And so obligated or not, I
would have gone back anyway
00:17:02.22\00:17:05.82
and worked with
government of St Lucia
00:17:05.85\00:17:08.59
for a period of time.
00:17:08.62\00:17:09.96
And about five years ago,
00:17:09.99\00:17:11.79
I started
working more regionally.
00:17:11.83\00:17:14.10
So from about 2004
00:17:14.13\00:17:16.87
I left the
government of St Lucia
00:17:16.90\00:17:18.23
and worked with several agencies
00:17:18.27\00:17:19.60
at the regional
level, so the UN,
00:17:19.63\00:17:21.20
the World Bank,
00:17:21.24\00:17:22.57
the European Union
on various projects
00:17:22.60\00:17:24.94
which would span
different islands
00:17:24.97\00:17:26.54
in terms of application of work,
00:17:26.57\00:17:28.54
Dominica, Grenada,
00:17:28.58\00:17:29.98
Saint Vincent and
Belize and few others.
00:17:30.05\00:17:33.21
I'm curious, what
activity of government
00:17:33.25\00:17:36.72
would occasion hiring someone
who is a specialist in change?
00:17:36.79\00:17:41.19
What, you know,
what are you doing
00:17:41.22\00:17:42.56
specifically
for your government?
00:17:42.59\00:17:43.93
That's an excellent question.
00:17:43.96\00:17:45.29
I think my first
job in government
00:17:45.33\00:17:46.70
was looking at
public sector reform,
00:17:46.73\00:17:49.40
public sector modernization.
00:17:49.43\00:17:52.20
And that's the
office I worked in,
00:17:52.23\00:17:53.60
in the office of
the Prime Minister,
00:17:53.64\00:17:55.37
in the government of St. Lucia,
basically trying to modernize
00:17:55.40\00:17:59.14
the administration
of public affairs,
00:17:59.17\00:18:01.94
the structures of
government, the procedures,
00:18:01.98\00:18:04.08
the increased use of
technology for example,
00:18:04.11\00:18:07.25
to streamline processes
00:18:07.28\00:18:08.62
and procedures for
greater effectiveness
00:18:08.65\00:18:10.55
and efficiency.
00:18:10.62\00:18:11.95
So that's
really, that was my focus
00:18:11.99\00:18:14.49
under the title of e-government,
00:18:14.52\00:18:15.89
electronic government.
00:18:15.92\00:18:17.36
And so that's
really what I specialized
00:18:17.39\00:18:19.13
in the first few
years upon my return.
00:18:19.16\00:18:21.26
Wow, that's impressive.
00:18:21.30\00:18:23.60
How has your
faith, is my question,
00:18:23.67\00:18:28.70
how has that sort of informed
00:18:28.74\00:18:30.51
how you apply those
technical principles
00:18:30.54\00:18:32.67
which you learned in school?
00:18:32.71\00:18:34.08
Well, that's a huge area
00:18:34.11\00:18:35.51
because as you
know the application
00:18:35.54\00:18:37.75
of knowledge is
really where is at.
00:18:37.78\00:18:39.71
You could acquire
massive knowledge,
00:18:39.75\00:18:41.58
in for example,
computer programming
00:18:41.62\00:18:43.89
and put it to creating viruses
00:18:43.92\00:18:46.02
and spreading
definite destruction
00:18:46.05\00:18:49.19
over networks worldwide.
00:18:49.22\00:18:51.26
So certainly the
ethical application
00:18:51.29\00:18:53.03
of knowledge is a huge factor
00:18:53.06\00:18:54.93
in terms of
fairly and consistently
00:18:54.93\00:18:57.77
applying certain principles,
00:18:57.80\00:18:59.87
especially in dealing
with people in organizations.
00:18:59.90\00:19:02.64
I guess that's what as we
were discussing it earlier,
00:19:02.67\00:19:04.94
lead me to the whole area
of emotional intelligence,
00:19:04.97\00:19:07.71
even though I never did
it as a subject in school.
00:19:07.74\00:19:11.11
And so it's
really that underpinning
00:19:11.15\00:19:12.98
of how you apply knowledge
00:19:13.01\00:19:14.75
and information to
practical situations
00:19:14.78\00:19:17.42
in organizations
where the change process
00:19:17.45\00:19:20.69
already is difficult
for persons to cope with,
00:19:20.72\00:19:24.16
and so
administrating it in a way
00:19:24.19\00:19:26.23
that is ethical,
in a way that is fair,
00:19:26.26\00:19:28.23
in a way that is transparent
00:19:28.26\00:19:29.93
is where the
faith aspect comes in.
00:19:29.96\00:19:31.30
I see.
00:19:31.33\00:19:32.67
Well, let me ask you then this,
00:19:32.70\00:19:34.04
what were you
seeing as you were working
00:19:34.07\00:19:36.00
that moved you towards
emotional intelligence?
00:19:36.04\00:19:38.11
What were you
seeing as you applied
00:19:38.14\00:19:39.87
what you learned in
school to real life situations?
00:19:39.91\00:19:42.11
Yes. The main thing was failure.
00:19:42.14\00:19:45.91
Because as we said, the
change process isn't easy.
00:19:45.95\00:19:49.15
And as, I mean,
across the board,
00:19:49.18\00:19:51.05
historically a lot
of organizational change
00:19:51.09\00:19:54.09
efforts fail.
00:19:54.16\00:19:55.49
And no surprise
00:19:55.52\00:19:56.86
because a lot
of our own personal
00:19:56.89\00:19:58.23
change efforts fail.
00:19:58.26\00:19:59.59
Look at the whole cycling
00:19:59.63\00:20:01.06
of New Year's
resolutions every year,
00:20:01.10\00:20:02.76
we make them and break them
00:20:02.80\00:20:04.13
before the end of the
week of the first year.
00:20:04.17\00:20:07.87
And so the
failure, the rate of failure
00:20:07.90\00:20:10.77
of organizational change efforts
00:20:10.81\00:20:13.01
was what had me
00:20:13.04\00:20:14.38
really looking deeper
at what really would it
00:20:14.41\00:20:16.58
take to make this thing
a little more successive
00:20:16.61\00:20:19.31
in terms of application.
00:20:19.35\00:20:21.02
And it turns out there's again
00:20:21.05\00:20:22.78
the whole body of
literature supporting that,
00:20:22.82\00:20:25.55
not least, which is the Bible
00:20:25.59\00:20:28.86
in terms of how
to get change working
00:20:28.89\00:20:31.49
and to be a success.
00:20:31.53\00:20:33.90
And so the body of
work that I got interested
00:20:33.96\00:20:36.36
in was under the
caption emotionally intelligent,
00:20:36.40\00:20:38.63
didn't know what it was,
hadn't heard of it before,
00:20:38.67\00:20:41.47
but started reading
and read tons of books
00:20:41.50\00:20:43.64
and articles and
recent research on it
00:20:43.67\00:20:46.44
on neuroscience and
cognitive psychology
00:20:46.47\00:20:48.84
and what have you,
00:20:48.88\00:20:50.21
and recognize that
really the second point
00:20:50.28\00:20:53.01
to change is not so
much the intellectual mind
00:20:53.05\00:20:56.62
but the emotional mind.
00:20:56.65\00:20:59.02
Meaning, how we feel
about things would determine
00:20:59.05\00:21:02.59
to what extent we apply it.
00:21:02.62\00:21:04.03
Yes. Powerful.
00:21:04.06\00:21:06.33
And I want to get
into that emotional mind
00:21:06.36\00:21:11.80
in just moment,
but before I do so,
00:21:11.83\00:21:14.10
the question that I'm
asking, I'm thinking about is,
00:21:14.14\00:21:16.97
does change on a personal
level have anything to do with,
00:21:17.01\00:21:20.94
are there any
similarities or any parameters
00:21:20.98\00:21:23.18
that are the same with
change on institutional level?
00:21:23.21\00:21:26.15
Are the mechanisms
the same for I want to do
00:21:26.18\00:21:28.72
something to change myself,
00:21:28.75\00:21:30.25
does that flow through
to an institutional change,
00:21:30.29\00:21:32.65
are they different?
00:21:32.69\00:21:34.02
To some extent
there are very similar.
00:21:34.06\00:21:36.16
In terms of how it
happens is slightly different.
00:21:36.19\00:21:38.63
You take for example
00:21:38.66\00:21:40.00
the emotional
intelligence framework,
00:21:40.06\00:21:41.96
these are four categories:
00:21:42.00\00:21:44.77
self-awareness, self management,
00:21:44.80\00:21:47.37
social awareness,
and social relationships.
00:21:47.40\00:21:50.64
So at the personal level,
00:21:50.67\00:21:52.01
we're dealing more
with self-awareness
00:21:52.04\00:21:53.81
and self management.
00:21:53.84\00:21:55.18
Self management will
include self motivation,
00:21:55.21\00:21:57.85
self-regulation et cetera.
00:21:57.88\00:21:59.21
So that's really
00:21:59.25\00:22:00.65
at the personal
competency level.
00:22:00.72\00:22:03.22
In terms of
organizational change,
00:22:03.25\00:22:04.95
it happens at
the interactive level
00:22:04.99\00:22:07.89
which is more social awareness,
00:22:07.92\00:22:09.82
being able to
understand emotions in others
00:22:09.86\00:22:12.29
and what they mean,
00:22:12.33\00:22:13.70
being able to
demonstrate empathy for example,
00:22:13.73\00:22:16.36
and social relationships,
being able to communicate,
00:22:16.40\00:22:19.80
to deal with conflict,
to deal with disagreements,
00:22:19.83\00:22:22.44
et cetera.
00:22:22.47\00:22:23.81
So it's really part
of the same framework
00:22:23.87\00:22:25.77
but at two different
levels or dimensions.
00:22:25.81\00:22:28.38
But they're
obviously strongly intertwined.
00:22:28.41\00:22:30.98
Yes, yes, yes.
00:22:31.01\00:22:32.35
I'm thinking
00:22:32.38\00:22:33.72
of course that I don't even know
00:22:33.78\00:22:35.12
if I have take
you down that road
00:22:35.15\00:22:36.48
because my mind is
going in so many directions.
00:22:36.52\00:22:39.39
Particularly
there are some people
00:22:39.42\00:22:41.19
who seem to be able
to motivate themselves,
00:22:41.22\00:22:43.53
say to get up every
morning and walk and run,
00:22:43.59\00:22:45.59
or to get up every morning
00:22:45.63\00:22:46.96
and do some sort
of exercise programs,
00:22:47.00\00:22:49.00
and others who need
00:22:49.03\00:22:50.80
a significant
amount of encouragement.
00:22:50.83\00:22:54.30
Is that a character
flaw, a character weakness
00:22:54.34\00:22:56.67
or just a different
way of approaching things?
00:22:56.74\00:22:58.54
No, I think
what, I mean all defy
00:22:58.57\00:23:00.88
and shows that all
of us find some areas
00:23:00.91\00:23:03.98
easy to change and other
areas difficult to change.
00:23:04.05\00:23:07.02
So for me, it might
be diet and exercise,
00:23:07.05\00:23:10.19
for you it might
be something else.
00:23:10.22\00:23:12.92
So if each
individual, we're all created
00:23:12.95\00:23:14.99
unique and special.
00:23:15.02\00:23:16.59
And so the
question of how and why
00:23:16.62\00:23:19.56
and when we change
is really different
00:23:19.59\00:23:22.20
for each individual.
00:23:22.23\00:23:23.57
And so it's to
find out what could
00:23:23.63\00:23:26.03
get that particular
individual to want to change
00:23:26.07\00:23:31.21
and then to go
through the hard process
00:23:31.24\00:23:33.24
of making the change.
00:23:33.27\00:23:34.74
So I don't think it's
really a matter of saying,
00:23:34.78\00:23:37.71
some people are or
some people aren't,
00:23:37.75\00:23:39.68
it's a question
of what particularly
00:23:39.71\00:23:41.42
for different
people could get them
00:23:41.45\00:23:43.15
to change in specific areas.
00:23:43.18\00:23:45.52
And it goes to the question
of what do you ultimately value.
00:23:45.55\00:23:50.09
And so that's where the
question of values come in,
00:23:50.13\00:23:51.96
and we
sometimes have to question
00:23:51.99\00:23:53.46
even our very selves,
if we value good health,
00:23:53.50\00:23:56.06
or we value longevity, or
we value health principles,
00:23:56.10\00:24:01.50
then why aren't we applying
00:24:01.54\00:24:03.71
or why aren't we
doing what it takes to do.
00:24:03.74\00:24:05.71
So it goes back to
probably re-looking
00:24:05.74\00:24:07.58
at really our value system
and what would motivate us
00:24:07.61\00:24:11.01
to make the
changes that we seek.
00:24:11.05\00:24:12.91
Okay, I got another question.
00:24:12.95\00:24:14.32
Because I want you,
we're going to get to,
00:24:14.35\00:24:16.02
because I want to
define emotional intelligent.
00:24:16.05\00:24:17.69
But I am taking
a little pit stop
00:24:17.72\00:24:19.65
because you are saying so much.
00:24:19.69\00:24:21.82
Which is a better
motivator for change?
00:24:21.86\00:24:24.16
Is it the fear that
something bad will happen to me
00:24:24.23\00:24:27.60
or the more positive,
that I value this higher?
00:24:27.60\00:24:32.53
Something as simple as
I value being 170 pounds,
00:24:32.57\00:24:36.27
or I fear being 250 pounds?
00:24:36.30\00:24:38.91
Is it that, which
is a better long term
00:24:38.94\00:24:41.61
motivator or promoter of change?
00:24:41.64\00:24:43.31
Yeah. That's an
excellent question.
00:24:43.35\00:24:45.08
And there are two, as
you know sets of emotions,
00:24:45.11\00:24:48.55
positive and negative.
00:24:48.58\00:24:50.15
The thing about
negative emotions like fear
00:24:50.19\00:24:52.59
is that they do not last.
00:24:52.62\00:24:54.56
Yeah. Because
it's not sustainable.
00:24:54.59\00:24:56.89
The brain cannot process fear
for a prolonged period of time.
00:24:56.93\00:25:00.66
You cannot live in fear
for prolonged period of time.
00:25:00.73\00:25:03.57
The body will protect
itself with some mechanism,
00:25:03.60\00:25:06.63
whether it's a distraction,
00:25:06.67\00:25:08.00
whether it's a rationalization
or something or the other.
00:25:08.04\00:25:11.04
So for negative
emotion to be your motivator
00:25:11.07\00:25:14.84
it will not last,
because inherently the body
00:25:14.88\00:25:17.48
will protect itself
from that negative emotion
00:25:17.55\00:25:20.45
lasting too long.
00:25:20.52\00:25:21.85
So then for the lay person,
fear will get you started
00:25:21.88\00:25:24.09
but it cannot keep you going?
00:25:24.12\00:25:25.45
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
00:25:25.49\00:25:26.86
Fear would be
an excellent start.
00:25:26.89\00:25:31.09
It absolutely be an
excellent kickstart.
00:25:31.13\00:25:33.43
Yeah.
00:25:33.50\00:25:34.83
But to keep it going, it
has to be something else.
00:25:34.83\00:25:37.70
There has to be
something else layered on it,
00:25:37.73\00:25:39.83
and that's where
the positive emotions
00:25:39.87\00:25:41.30
would come in, the value system,
00:25:41.34\00:25:43.24
what do I
aspired to be and to do.
00:25:43.27\00:25:45.47
And that's the difficult part,
00:25:45.51\00:25:46.98
really embracing a value
system that could sustain you.
00:25:47.04\00:25:50.11
Yeah.
00:25:50.15\00:25:51.48
Yes, see, I find these
kind of stuff fascinating,
00:25:51.51\00:25:52.85
I really do.
00:25:52.88\00:25:54.22
I need to ask
you to define for me,
00:25:54.25\00:25:56.25
for us, what is
emotional intelligence?
00:25:56.28\00:25:58.42
Right.
00:25:58.45\00:25:59.79
There are million
and one definitions
00:25:59.82\00:26:01.22
as you'd well imagine,
00:26:01.26\00:26:02.59
so I think I'll
just make up my own, no.
00:26:02.62\00:26:05.06
I will steal a few
lines here and there.
00:26:05.09\00:26:06.43
It's really three things.
00:26:06.46\00:26:08.00
It's really the
ability or the capacity
00:26:08.03\00:26:10.70
to accurately
perceive emotions in ourselves,
00:26:10.77\00:26:15.07
first of all, and in others.
00:26:15.10\00:26:17.11
Yes.
00:26:17.14\00:26:18.47
It's also the
ability to be self-motivated.
00:26:18.51\00:26:20.98
And thirdly, it's the
ability to manage these emotions
00:26:21.01\00:26:24.71
well in ourselves
and in our relationships.
00:26:24.75\00:26:27.95
So that's really
the three components
00:26:27.98\00:26:29.72
of emotional intelligence,
perceiving emotions,
00:26:29.75\00:26:32.59
motivating ourselves
and managing emotions
00:26:32.62\00:26:35.39
well in ourselves
00:26:35.42\00:26:36.76
and in our
relationships with others.
00:26:36.83\00:26:38.56
That's, that important,
00:26:38.59\00:26:39.93
and that's some
of what you're going
00:26:40.00\00:26:41.30
to talk about
during the seminar.
00:26:41.33\00:26:42.66
Absolutely. So
that's where we start.
00:26:42.70\00:26:44.03
In the seminar we start looking
at the role of the brain,
00:26:44.07\00:26:47.10
looking at some neuroscience,
00:26:47.14\00:26:48.47
research in terms
of what it means for us
00:26:48.50\00:26:50.77
as Christians obviously,
00:26:50.81\00:26:52.47
and looking at the
function of the heart.
00:26:52.51\00:26:54.48
So I did, the series is entitled
00:26:54.51\00:26:56.58
''Can you feel
your heart thinking."
00:26:56.61\00:27:00.35
And so we look at
the role of the heart,
00:27:00.38\00:27:01.88
the brain as organs of the body
00:27:01.92\00:27:03.82
and what they do in
terms of facilitating
00:27:03.85\00:27:06.42
thinking and feeling.
00:27:06.45\00:27:08.22
And the interplay between
the two, reason and passion.
00:27:08.26\00:27:11.06
That is fantastic, and to
me, I find it very intriguing.
00:27:11.09\00:27:14.36
Now what is sad
is that by the time
00:27:14.36\00:27:16.23
this program airs,
00:27:16.26\00:27:17.97
your seminar
will actually be over.
00:27:18.00\00:27:20.14
But I know you are
available to give a seminar,
00:27:20.17\00:27:23.10
so we'll put up
some contact information
00:27:23.17\00:27:25.21
at other times.
00:27:25.24\00:27:26.57
But I think the
idea of, you know I have,
00:27:26.61\00:27:28.91
I made the statement in worship
00:27:28.94\00:27:30.68
just the other day
because as a child,
00:27:30.75\00:27:32.08
I heard someone say,
00:27:32.11\00:27:33.45
I heard two older people talking
00:27:33.48\00:27:34.82
and while as a kid I
used to like to listen
00:27:34.85\00:27:36.35
to older people's conversation.
00:27:36.38\00:27:37.95
And I heard this guy say,
00:27:37.99\00:27:40.86
"As bad as it is to
breathe secondhand smoke,
00:27:40.89\00:27:45.16
it is worse to blow
smoke up your own nose."
00:27:45.19\00:27:49.10
And as a child it was,
I couldn't process that.
00:27:49.13\00:27:51.67
It was years, in
fact I was in college
00:27:51.70\00:27:54.50
and a friend of
mine, my roommate was sad
00:27:54.54\00:27:56.67
because he didn't
get into a certain choir
00:27:56.71\00:27:58.77
and I did get into a choir.
00:27:58.81\00:28:00.21
And he would say,
"How was the fixing,
00:28:00.24\00:28:01.91
how can I get in
and he couldn't get in."
00:28:01.94\00:28:04.58
And that he was a great singer.
00:28:04.61\00:28:05.95
And he really
wasn't a great singer,
00:28:05.98\00:28:07.35
actually was pretty bad.
00:28:07.38\00:28:08.72
And after while
after about 20 minutes
00:28:08.75\00:28:10.52
I said, you know
you didn't get in
00:28:10.55\00:28:11.89
because you stink,
you don't sing good.
00:28:11.92\00:28:13.69
You are not good at all.
00:28:13.72\00:28:15.06
And I said I heard myself say,
00:28:15.09\00:28:16.42
"As bad as it is to
breathe secondhand smoke,
00:28:16.46\00:28:18.46
it is worse to blow
smoke up your own nose."
00:28:18.49\00:28:20.53
I know that you need to
be honest with yourself.
00:28:20.56\00:28:22.83
And I think that
from what I hear,
00:28:22.86\00:28:24.60
that's kind of
whatyou're dealing with.
00:28:24.63\00:28:25.97
How do I assess, how I function,
00:28:26.00\00:28:28.04
why I make
decision, how I make decision?
00:28:28.07\00:28:29.84
Yes, which is a
very difficult thing.
00:28:29.87\00:28:31.54
I mean, turning the
spotlight in and on yourself
00:28:31.57\00:28:33.38
is a difficult thing inherently,
00:28:33.41\00:28:34.74
and we all go for it daily.
00:28:34.78\00:28:36.11
Sure.
00:28:36.14\00:28:37.48
And so that's what
intrigued me about it,
00:28:37.55\00:28:38.88
not obviously
haven't perfected it,
00:28:38.91\00:28:40.65
but I will try, but
really stick into it
00:28:40.72\00:28:44.65
and trying to apply and failing
00:28:44.69\00:28:47.46
and starting back and
the dynamics of doing it
00:28:47.49\00:28:49.79
yourself led me
further into studying
00:28:49.82\00:28:51.89
what this thing is all about.
00:28:51.93\00:28:53.40
So it's really I
think we're all in a journey
00:28:53.43\00:28:55.56
that research and
obviously the Bible
00:28:55.60\00:28:58.67
and other informal
sources would help us through
00:28:58.70\00:29:01.47
collectively making
that journey successful.
00:29:01.50\00:29:03.47
I see.
00:29:03.54\00:29:04.87
Cletus, walk me
through if you will,
00:29:04.91\00:29:06.51
the kinds of things
00:29:06.54\00:29:07.88
that you
discuss in your seminar.
00:29:07.91\00:29:09.44
Break down for me
the kind of things
00:29:09.48\00:29:10.81
that we're going to experience.
00:29:10.88\00:29:12.21
Yes, well, we spoke
about some of it already
00:29:12.25\00:29:13.58
in terms of defining what
emotional intelligence is,
00:29:13.65\00:29:16.02
the framework in
terms of self-awareness,
00:29:16.05\00:29:18.12
self management,
social awareness,
00:29:18.15\00:29:20.49
empathy et cetera,
and social relations.
00:29:20.52\00:29:22.96
So we define basically
the scope of what it is
00:29:22.99\00:29:26.06
we're talking about.
00:29:26.09\00:29:27.40
And as I said,
the role of the brain,
00:29:27.46\00:29:28.86
the heart as organs
of the body in processing
00:29:28.90\00:29:31.37
and thinking and feeling
00:29:31.40\00:29:32.73
and the
interplay between the two.
00:29:32.77\00:29:34.97
Then we look at
the framework or system
00:29:35.00\00:29:37.91
of learning
emotional intelligence.
00:29:37.94\00:29:40.38
In other words,
how can we increase it
00:29:40.41\00:29:42.44
gradually overtime,
it's not an overnight thing,
00:29:42.48\00:29:46.11
and a system
that takes us through
00:29:46.15\00:29:47.92
the subconscious mind
and the conscious mind
00:29:47.95\00:29:51.52
blending between
again, the cognitive,
00:29:51.55\00:29:54.06
the thinking and
the experiential,
00:29:54.09\00:29:55.99
the feeling, and
making the two work together
00:29:56.02\00:29:59.33
through prayer
to make improvements
00:29:59.36\00:30:01.40
in emotional intelligence.
00:30:01.43\00:30:02.80
So we really look at the
detail learning framework
00:30:02.83\00:30:06.30
as to how we
can actively improve
00:30:06.33\00:30:08.84
our emotional intelligence.
00:30:08.87\00:30:10.67
And then we look at
some practical areas
00:30:10.71\00:30:13.14
in terms of 'so
what?', 'What does this mean?'
00:30:13.17\00:30:16.11
You know my next
question would be
00:30:16.14\00:30:17.85
because when I did
00:30:17.88\00:30:20.52
a little teaching
of theology students,
00:30:20.58\00:30:23.39
one of things I said,
"If you're going to take
00:30:23.45\00:30:25.49
30, 45 minutes
of somebody's time
00:30:25.52\00:30:27.02
teaching to preach to them,
00:30:27.06\00:30:28.99
you must answer in
the body of that message,
00:30:29.02\00:30:30.93
'So what?'
00:30:30.96\00:30:32.49
You know, so what? So what?
00:30:32.53\00:30:34.03
So we end with the applications,
00:30:34.10\00:30:36.03
well, we'll do it
throughout but we emphasize
00:30:36.06\00:30:38.67
to the second
half of the program
00:30:38.70\00:30:41.27
what are the
practical applications
00:30:41.30\00:30:43.00
and we look at about seven areas
00:30:43.04\00:30:44.51
of practical
application of this stuff.
00:30:44.54\00:30:47.11
We look at leadership
as one area of application,
00:30:47.14\00:30:50.71
we look at conflict management,
we look at anger management,
00:30:50.78\00:30:54.88
we look at
parenting as I've had to learn
00:30:54.92\00:30:58.55
again myself being a
new, relatively new parent
00:30:58.59\00:31:01.82
of a four year old son.
00:31:01.86\00:31:04.56
So emotional
intelligence in parenting.
00:31:04.59\00:31:07.66
We look at the role of emotional
00:31:07.66\00:31:09.40
intelligence in evangelism,
00:31:09.43\00:31:11.63
a very critical
connection that we need to make.
00:31:11.67\00:31:13.74
And its role in
effective communication
00:31:13.80\00:31:16.67
and negotiations.
00:31:16.71\00:31:18.54
So a whole wide
range of everyday
00:31:18.57\00:31:20.14
practical applications,
00:31:20.18\00:31:21.51
both
professionally and personally.
00:31:21.54\00:31:23.91
How do we apply this
stuff in our daily life?
00:31:23.95\00:31:26.18
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:26.21\00:31:27.58
So a person who
certainly is in leadership
00:31:27.62\00:31:29.12
or trying to build a
team certainly needs to know.
00:31:29.15\00:31:31.29
Absolutely.
00:31:31.32\00:31:32.65
And parents
certainly need to know.
00:31:32.69\00:31:34.02
Yes, yes.
00:31:34.06\00:31:35.39
And I should
mention that I started
00:31:35.42\00:31:36.79
off doing these
seminars as you know,
00:31:36.83\00:31:38.46
through my studies
really on Change Management
00:31:38.49\00:31:41.03
Information
Technology Implementation
00:31:41.06\00:31:43.16
and increasingly
moved to the softer side
00:31:43.20\00:31:46.10
and look at conflict resolution,
00:31:46.13\00:31:48.74
conflict management,
00:31:48.77\00:31:50.14
communication
and under the rubric
00:31:50.17\00:31:51.74
of emotional
intelligence for organizations
00:31:51.77\00:31:54.54
in the public
and private sector.
00:31:54.58\00:31:56.88
And then eventually saw
00:31:56.91\00:31:58.25
its real
application to the church.
00:31:58.28\00:32:00.42
Yeah and you're tracking with me
00:32:00.45\00:32:01.78
because my next
question was going to be,
00:32:01.82\00:32:03.28
well, certainly one of
my subsequent questions
00:32:03.32\00:32:04.89
was, I think
there is one application
00:32:04.92\00:32:08.29
in the corporate field
00:32:08.32\00:32:11.39
but, so you also see that need
within this area of the church?
00:32:11.43\00:32:14.56
Exactly, which is
why I put together
00:32:14.60\00:32:16.50
the seminar
series for the church
00:32:16.53\00:32:18.67
because I've been doing it
00:32:18.70\00:32:20.04
for a while in
the corporate world,
00:32:20.10\00:32:22.44
and in government,
in the public sector
00:32:22.47\00:32:24.77
and in private sector.
00:32:24.81\00:32:26.47
And so package in a
differently to speak
00:32:26.51\00:32:28.98
to the needs of the church
00:32:29.01\00:32:30.35
and trying to all
of us working together,
00:32:30.41\00:32:33.11
increase our
level of spirituality
00:32:33.15\00:32:34.88
and application of
principles that we know already
00:32:34.92\00:32:38.12
was really the
challenging part for me,
00:32:38.15\00:32:40.46
both personally and corporately.
00:32:40.52\00:32:41.86
Right.
00:32:41.89\00:32:43.22
And I was by...
my train of thought,
00:32:43.26\00:32:45.23
why would the saints of
God on the way to the Kingdom?
00:32:45.26\00:32:47.96
Everyone perfecting
or trying to be perfect,
00:32:48.00\00:32:50.00
why would they need
those kinds of things
00:32:50.03\00:32:52.37
in the church arena?
00:32:52.40\00:32:54.00
Again, it is a matter of
breaking down the process
00:32:54.07\00:32:56.64
because one of the
things we talk about
00:32:56.67\00:32:58.01
in a seminar is how
does the Holy Spirit work?
00:32:58.04\00:33:01.48
And we obviously
come to the point
00:33:01.51\00:33:03.48
that it's not
magical, it's not by like that,
00:33:03.55\00:33:06.72
it's through the
organs and the capacities
00:33:06.75\00:33:09.58
that God has given us,
00:33:09.62\00:33:11.82
which is the heart and the mind.
00:33:11.85\00:33:13.76
And so being smart
about what we think about
00:33:13.79\00:33:16.52
and also what we feel about
00:33:16.56\00:33:18.86
has really open up the
avenues for the Holy Spirit
00:33:18.89\00:33:21.06
to work better in our lives.
00:33:21.10\00:33:22.43
So it's nothing
separate and apart
00:33:22.46\00:33:24.67
from what we are called to do,
00:33:24.70\00:33:26.03
but it's really
enhancing the capacities
00:33:26.07\00:33:28.50
that God have
given and better utilize
00:33:28.54\00:33:31.14
in what we have to aid
00:33:31.17\00:33:34.18
in the spiritual
work in our lives.
00:33:34.24\00:33:35.71
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:35.74\00:33:37.11
Good doctor, then
why is it so tough for us
00:33:37.15\00:33:42.58
to accurately assess
00:33:42.62\00:33:44.92
or why is shining
the mirror on ourselves
00:33:44.95\00:33:49.02
and taking an
honest look at who we are
00:33:49.06\00:33:51.23
and what we're doing,
00:33:51.26\00:33:52.59
why does that seem so difficult?
00:33:52.63\00:33:54.23
Because it is.
00:33:54.30\00:33:58.30
Meaning, it's literally painful.
00:33:58.33\00:33:59.90
Yeah, it is.
00:34:00.04\00:34:01.37
And the brain, the
body protects itself
00:34:01.40\00:34:03.91
from pain and discomfort.
00:34:03.94\00:34:06.31
Yes. Yes?
00:34:06.34\00:34:07.68
So if something is
uncomfortable and painful,
00:34:07.71\00:34:11.05
the body would inherently
00:34:11.08\00:34:12.65
or naturally seek to
shield itself from it.
00:34:12.68\00:34:15.42
And so that's why
it's so difficult,
00:34:15.45\00:34:16.89
because it is so difficult.
00:34:16.92\00:34:18.52
Yes?
00:34:18.55\00:34:19.89
And so we protect ourselves,
00:34:19.92\00:34:21.26
our image from
that introspective
00:34:21.29\00:34:23.19
look for almost
self preservation.
00:34:23.22\00:34:26.16
But ironically it has to
happen for self preservation.
00:34:26.19\00:34:29.26
Interestingly enough.
00:34:29.30\00:34:30.93
I have seen
individuals who will decry
00:34:30.97\00:34:33.44
a certain character
trait in someone else,
00:34:33.50\00:34:35.84
and possess
that self-same trait,
00:34:35.87\00:34:38.24
that same thing
perhaps even more,
00:34:38.27\00:34:40.58
but they just don't
see it in themselves.
00:34:40.64\00:34:43.31
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:43.35\00:34:44.68
Will your seminar do anything
00:34:44.71\00:34:46.28
for that kind
of person, does it?
00:34:46.31\00:34:47.65
I know it may not
be designed to address
00:34:47.68\00:34:49.62
that specific reality
00:34:49.65\00:34:50.99
but does it even
touch on that tentatively.
00:34:51.02\00:34:52.45
Yeah, for all of
us it will do that,
00:34:52.49\00:34:54.22
it will help us assist
us, including the facilitator.
00:34:54.26\00:34:59.43
And in taking a closer
look at our blank spots
00:34:59.46\00:35:03.47
in terms of
emotionally what might be
00:35:03.50\00:35:04.90
difficult to
look at and address,
00:35:04.93\00:35:07.14
and do it in a way
that is not confrontational,
00:35:07.17\00:35:10.74
but in a way that we
could do it at our own pace,
00:35:10.81\00:35:13.31
in our own space in
a nurturing sort of way
00:35:13.38\00:35:16.34
because it doesn't speak
00:35:16.38\00:35:17.71
to an overtly
confrontational approach
00:35:17.75\00:35:21.12
this body of
work, it's really about
00:35:21.15\00:35:22.68
nurturing yourself
00:35:22.72\00:35:24.19
with the
assistance of some tools
00:35:24.22\00:35:25.85
and techniques that can be
00:35:25.89\00:35:27.36
useful in your
individual situation.
00:35:27.39\00:35:30.23
So it's giving
tools and techniques
00:35:30.26\00:35:32.06
that one could take and
apply and will be leaving some,
00:35:32.09\00:35:35.46
you know, some of
these instruments,
00:35:35.50\00:35:37.53
some of these
techniques that persons
00:35:37.57\00:35:39.00
could take away
and apply overtime.
00:35:39.03\00:35:41.24
Okay, I'm glad to say,
00:35:41.27\00:35:42.60
so this is not one
of those kind of things,
00:35:42.64\00:35:44.34
if you're broke,
come to the seminar
00:35:44.37\00:35:46.24
and you'll be
fixed, but you'll be
00:35:46.27\00:35:47.84
at least given
some tools that you can
00:35:47.88\00:35:49.21
apply over a length of time.
00:35:49.24\00:35:50.61
Exactly. It's not a quick fix.
00:35:50.65\00:35:51.98
It's not come get rich today,
be a millionaire tomorrow, no.
00:35:52.01\00:35:57.09
It's a process and
we all grow through
00:35:57.15\00:35:58.55
that process
overtime, we grow in grace
00:35:58.59\00:36:01.26
and we're certainly
not, we can be transformed,
00:36:01.29\00:36:04.09
yes, but it's an
ongoing growth process
00:36:04.16\00:36:07.23
that we experience.
00:36:07.23\00:36:08.66
And so that's what
we'll be speaking to.
00:36:08.70\00:36:10.57
It's not a
overnight magical formula.
00:36:10.60\00:36:13.47
Yeah.
00:36:13.54\00:36:14.87
I'm excited and I
think as, like I said,
00:36:14.90\00:36:19.01
as we went around
town and passed out flyers,
00:36:19.04\00:36:21.54
my wife and I did a couple days,
00:36:21.58\00:36:23.55
just the idea that people,
00:36:23.58\00:36:25.11
I think people want
to know about themselves.
00:36:25.15\00:36:27.62
I think they may be afraid
00:36:27.65\00:36:29.48
of what they will find,
but there are many people
00:36:29.52\00:36:31.55
who want to
know themselves more.
00:36:31.59\00:36:32.95
Yes, and I think the issue
00:36:32.99\00:36:34.32
is the
application to specific areas
00:36:34.36\00:36:36.86
and seeing the usefulness of it.
00:36:36.93\00:36:39.16
As I said,
that's why we emphasize
00:36:39.19\00:36:40.83
towards the end in the
practical applications,
00:36:40.90\00:36:43.47
what does this
mean for leadership,
00:36:43.53\00:36:45.50
what does this
mean for negotiations
00:36:45.53\00:36:47.77
that we take part in every day?
00:36:47.80\00:36:50.31
Formal or informal negotiations
00:36:50.37\00:36:52.17
in the workplace or in the home?
00:36:52.21\00:36:54.04
What does this
mean for me as a parent?
00:36:54.08\00:36:56.08
What does this mean
for me as a supervisor,
00:36:56.11\00:36:59.11
motivating my staff
00:36:59.15\00:37:00.55
and resolving
conflict among my staff?
00:37:00.58\00:37:02.88
Or facilitating
better communication
00:37:02.92\00:37:05.05
in the workplace?
00:37:05.09\00:37:06.42
So these specific
applications of it,
00:37:06.45\00:37:08.46
I think is really
where the value is added
00:37:08.49\00:37:11.49
in terms of
participation and engagement.
00:37:11.53\00:37:13.83
So it's not
academic or theoretical.
00:37:13.86\00:37:16.67
Yes, we discuss the theoretical,
00:37:16.70\00:37:19.57
the body of work
for a few minutes
00:37:19.60\00:37:21.67
to give it the
context but really application
00:37:21.70\00:37:24.41
of it is really
where the emphasis will be.
00:37:24.44\00:37:29.04
I have always maintained
that if you cannot negotiate,
00:37:29.08\00:37:34.12
you cannot stay happily married,
00:37:34.15\00:37:35.75
because marriage
among other things
00:37:35.78\00:37:37.12
is negotiate.
00:37:37.19\00:37:38.52
Absolutely.
00:37:38.55\00:37:39.89
You know, and I said it before,
00:37:39.92\00:37:41.26
I think two roles God
gave men, one is priest,
00:37:41.29\00:37:43.86
the other is ruler.
00:37:43.93\00:37:45.66
Priest is
nonnegotiable, ruler is.
00:37:45.69\00:37:47.96
Right.
00:37:48.00\00:37:49.33
You know you rule over
00:37:49.36\00:37:50.73
what you're allowed
to rule over, you know.
00:37:50.77\00:37:52.10
Exactly.
00:37:52.13\00:37:53.47
So if you cannot
negotiate, you cannot.
00:37:53.50\00:37:54.84
And you got to
give it to it, you know.
00:37:54.87\00:37:56.20
And if the wife is
better at certain things
00:37:56.24\00:37:58.11
then common sense
says, let her do it.
00:37:58.14\00:38:00.81
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:38:00.84\00:38:02.68
So I suspect that
having gone through this,
00:38:02.71\00:38:05.71
husbands and wives can pick up
00:38:05.75\00:38:07.28
some negotiation
skills that will,
00:38:07.35\00:38:09.25
so I'm just, I'm
trying to sell your product.
00:38:09.28\00:38:12.39
Because if, you know,
if a guy is having trouble
00:38:12.42\00:38:14.19
and there are some guys
00:38:14.22\00:38:15.56
who are not good at
negotiation or negotiating,
00:38:15.59\00:38:21.60
yet that is an integral
part of a happy marriage.
00:38:21.63\00:38:23.77
Unless you got
an unusually docile
00:38:23.80\00:38:26.03
and usually pliable wife,
00:38:26.07\00:38:27.97
you're going to
have to negotiate stuff.
00:38:28.00\00:38:29.94
And to the extent
that you can negotiate,
00:38:30.01\00:38:32.24
I think you can be happy.
00:38:32.27\00:38:33.61
And then the part about
this is absolutely right,
00:38:33.68\00:38:36.78
I totally agree
everything you said,
00:38:36.85\00:38:39.05
you put it so well.
00:38:39.08\00:38:40.42
And what will be
emphasizing in the seminar
00:38:40.45\00:38:42.95
is the emotional
aspects of negotiating
00:38:42.98\00:38:46.19
and will be joined on
several bodies of work.
00:38:46.22\00:38:48.09
One is a book by Robert
Fisher called Beyond Reason:
00:38:48.12\00:38:52.76
Using the
Emotions As You Negotiate.
00:38:52.79\00:38:56.83
So it's really
looking at the role of reason
00:38:56.87\00:39:00.17
and emotions in the
negotiating process.
00:39:00.20\00:39:02.84
And again, we'll
come to the discovery
00:39:02.87\00:39:05.04
that a lot of the difficulty
or failures in negotiating
00:39:05.07\00:39:10.48
has to do with
managing emotions poorly.
00:39:10.51\00:39:13.58
Amen and amen.
00:39:13.65\00:39:16.52
So that's really the emphasis
00:39:16.55\00:39:18.19
in terms of
negotiating where there are
00:39:18.22\00:39:20.02
many principles of negotiating
00:39:20.09\00:39:21.79
that we could cover in
terms of rational principle,
00:39:21.82\00:39:25.86
the cognitive
mind could understand,
00:39:25.89\00:39:27.73
do this, do that, but
when the temperature rises,
00:39:27.76\00:39:31.40
and emotions take over,
00:39:31.43\00:39:33.44
negotiations are
like fistfight almost.
00:39:33.47\00:39:37.31
So that's really what we'll be
00:39:37.34\00:39:38.67
focusing on the
softer side of negotiating,
00:39:38.71\00:39:40.81
dealing with the
use of the emotions
00:39:40.88\00:39:43.38
as you negotiate
so that they would
00:39:43.45\00:39:45.81
actively enhance
the negotiating process
00:39:45.85\00:39:48.48
as opposed to take away from it.
00:39:48.52\00:39:49.98
Now should you then want to use
00:39:50.02\00:39:53.76
your emotions or
manage your emotions
00:39:53.79\00:39:57.43
or lose your emotions
so that you can adequately
00:39:57.46\00:40:00.40
and accurately negotiate?
00:40:00.43\00:40:02.03
That's a....
00:40:02.06\00:40:05.80
I think it is... I've seen,
00:40:05.83\00:40:07.20
I've seen people
sit in boardrooms
00:40:07.24\00:40:08.57
and the temperature rises
00:40:08.60\00:40:10.11
and no one puts
their foot on the break.
00:40:10.17\00:40:12.51
Everybody is on the throttle
00:40:12.54\00:40:13.88
and you can see the
thing disintegrating,
00:40:13.94\00:40:15.74
but you can't pull it
back from the precipice
00:40:15.78\00:40:17.75
because it's gotten so wide.
00:40:17.78\00:40:19.11
Well, that's a
brilliant question.
00:40:19.15\00:40:20.78
It's almost like you
took part of my seminar
00:40:20.82\00:40:23.45
and put it back
on in a question.
00:40:23.49\00:40:25.45
The thing is we
can't ignore emotions.
00:40:25.49\00:40:28.26
We may try but we can't because
even though we suppress them,
00:40:28.29\00:40:31.33
they will still affect us.
00:40:31.36\00:40:32.99
They will affect us physically.
00:40:33.03\00:40:34.56
We will feel
physiological effects of it
00:40:34.56\00:40:37.53
and they will
affect our thinking.
00:40:37.57\00:40:39.63
Neither on the other end
can we focus on every emotion
00:40:39.67\00:40:42.54
that we feel during
that intense negotiating.
00:40:42.57\00:40:45.17
It will be so debilitating
00:40:45.21\00:40:47.01
that we can't
even think properly.
00:40:47.04\00:40:48.71
So neither can we ignore it
00:40:48.74\00:40:50.81
nor can we focus on
every emotion that we feel.
00:40:50.88\00:40:54.75
What we will
discuss in the seminar
00:40:54.78\00:40:56.42
is what then do we
do with these emotions.
00:40:56.45\00:40:58.25
Right.
00:40:58.29\00:41:01.12
And it's a
question of processing them.
00:41:01.16\00:41:04.33
So it's not suppressing,
it's not repressing,
00:41:04.36\00:41:06.63
neither it has given
everyone full attention,
00:41:06.70\00:41:08.40
but processing them.
00:41:08.43\00:41:09.76
And what we mean by processing
00:41:09.80\00:41:12.47
is seeing what is the co-concern
00:41:12.50\00:41:14.14
that has led to that emotion.
00:41:14.20\00:41:16.07
Uh, okay.
00:41:16.10\00:41:17.47
So we're not
focusing on the emotion,
00:41:17.51\00:41:20.34
but neither are we ignoring it
00:41:20.38\00:41:22.01
because we're asking now
the question to ourselves.
00:41:22.04\00:41:25.25
What is the
co-concern that I have,
00:41:25.28\00:41:27.65
that is leading to that emotion?
00:41:27.68\00:41:29.32
I see. We ask that of ourselves
00:41:29.35\00:41:31.25
and we ask that of the
other person not literally,
00:41:31.29\00:41:34.12
but we figure it out.
00:41:34.16\00:41:35.49
Well, this person is
acting up, getting all upset.
00:41:35.52\00:41:37.76
What is the co-concern
00:41:37.79\00:41:40.30
that is not being met,
00:41:40.36\00:41:41.93
which is leading to that
emotion being manifested?
00:41:41.96\00:41:44.80
And then the negotiation,
00:41:44.83\00:41:46.23
now would deal
with that co-concern
00:41:46.27\00:41:48.54
as opposed to the emotion
that is being manifested.
00:41:48.57\00:41:52.57
And there are five co-concerns
00:41:52.61\00:41:54.14
that we'll
discuss in the seminar
00:41:54.21\00:41:55.78
that underline
most of the emotions
00:41:55.81\00:41:57.91
that come out during
intense negotiations.
00:41:57.95\00:42:00.52
Yeah. Give them to me
real quick if you can.
00:42:00.55\00:42:03.18
Come to the seminar.
00:42:03.22\00:42:05.12
We'll leave that as a teaser.
00:42:05.15\00:42:06.49
Let me say this then.
00:42:06.52\00:42:07.86
Because it appears to me
that people tend to respond
00:42:07.89\00:42:10.73
or react to how, what
is said makes them feel
00:42:10.76\00:42:14.66
as opposed to
purely what is said.
00:42:14.73\00:42:16.03
Absolutely.
00:42:16.06\00:42:17.43
Yeah. Because it's a
response to what it's said
00:42:17.47\00:42:18.87
and how I feel about it
00:42:18.90\00:42:20.24
and even more than
the words themselves.
00:42:20.30\00:42:21.64
Absolutely.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes.
00:42:21.67\00:42:23.00
Yeah. So you can say
something fairly benign,
00:42:23.04\00:42:27.24
but it's taken the wrong way
00:42:27.28\00:42:28.61
and a person is
picking up a lot of speed
00:42:28.64\00:42:30.41
and a lot of heat
00:42:30.45\00:42:31.78
and you didn't mean it that way,
00:42:31.81\00:42:33.15
but they took it that way.
00:42:33.18\00:42:34.52
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:42:34.55\00:42:35.88
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:42:35.92\00:42:37.25
That is... It's
worth just to deal
00:42:37.29\00:42:40.16
with interpersonal
conflict resolution
00:42:40.22\00:42:41.92
here in a seminar just for that.
00:42:41.96\00:42:43.29
Yes.
00:42:43.32\00:42:44.66
Let alone, the
overall roof will be changed
00:42:44.69\00:42:46.03
that you're dealing with.
00:42:46.06\00:42:47.40
Just how do I deal with my wife
00:42:47.46\00:42:49.16
when stuff is
getting really tight
00:42:49.20\00:42:50.53
and we're standing like this.
00:42:50.60\00:42:52.10
Or how do I deal with
my brother or my sister
00:42:52.13\00:42:53.97
or my colleague or
my fellow church member,
00:42:54.00\00:42:57.97
the person in a pew next to me,
00:42:58.01\00:42:59.47
those kinds of things.
If it makes me a calmer,
00:42:59.51\00:43:02.28
better more reason person,
then it's worth it I think.
00:43:02.31\00:43:04.78
But you're so
right because normally
00:43:04.81\00:43:06.35
the packaging for the seminar
what I do for corporations
00:43:06.38\00:43:09.62
and different groups is
on the conflict management
00:43:09.65\00:43:12.15
and negotiating and
that's like a two day seminar.
00:43:12.19\00:43:15.02
So as soon as I get back,
00:43:15.06\00:43:16.39
I go to Saint Vincent
and do this two day seminar
00:43:16.42\00:43:19.19
for the utility
company in Saint Vincent,
00:43:19.23\00:43:22.03
for a group of
mid level managers
00:43:22.06\00:43:23.97
on emotional intelligence,
00:43:24.03\00:43:25.47
but specifically
applied for conflict management
00:43:25.50\00:43:28.50
and
negotiating, that's two days,
00:43:28.54\00:43:31.21
full two days seminar.
00:43:31.24\00:43:32.57
Wow. So you're right.
00:43:32.61\00:43:33.94
The major application
00:43:33.98\00:43:35.64
of this is in
conflict management
00:43:35.68\00:43:37.25
and negotiating.
00:43:37.31\00:43:38.65
Wow. Are the kinds of conflicts
00:43:38.68\00:43:40.02
that you see in a church
setting parallel, similar,
00:43:40.05\00:43:42.58
totally different
from the kinds of conflicts
00:43:42.62\00:43:44.39
you see in a corporate setting?
00:43:44.42\00:43:46.19
Very probably, very
probably at the core.
00:43:46.22\00:43:48.46
I mean the issues are different,
00:43:48.49\00:43:50.69
the surface
issues are different,
00:43:50.73\00:43:52.46
but below the surface,
00:43:52.49\00:43:54.23
exactly the same.
00:43:54.30\00:43:55.83
Because there's this theory,
the Iceberg Theory of Conflict.
00:43:55.86\00:43:59.40
What you see at the top
of the water is the issue,
00:43:59.43\00:44:01.90
but there's a
huge bowl of ice below,
00:44:01.94\00:44:04.31
that's what sank the Titanic.
00:44:04.34\00:44:05.94
They thought it was
a little piece of ice
00:44:05.97\00:44:07.31
floating on the water
00:44:07.38\00:44:08.71
and think, ah,
we have a big ship,
00:44:08.74\00:44:10.08
we could break through this,
00:44:10.11\00:44:11.45
let's go. And then
it sank the Titanic.
00:44:11.48\00:44:13.05
So the Iceberg Theory says,
00:44:13.08\00:44:14.55
never mind how small
it seems on the surface
00:44:14.58\00:44:16.79
or what the issue
seems to be on the surface,
00:44:16.82\00:44:19.15
what's below is
a myriad of issues,
00:44:19.19\00:44:21.36
personalities,
emotions, hidden agendas,
00:44:21.39\00:44:24.43
unresolved issues
in the past etcetera
00:44:24.46\00:44:26.83
and that pretty
much is the same whether
00:44:26.90\00:44:28.70
it's corporate or church,
00:44:28.73\00:44:30.63
below the surface that is.
00:44:30.67\00:44:32.00
Yeah. See that occurs
00:44:32.03\00:44:33.40
to me is to be very important
00:44:33.44\00:44:34.77
because we see
what's above the water.
00:44:34.80\00:44:36.57
You said this to me.
00:44:36.60\00:44:37.94
Yes. Exactly.
00:44:37.97\00:44:39.31
And they don't look
at that whole... Yeah,
00:44:39.34\00:44:41.18
there's a whole lot of
stuff under that, you know.
00:44:41.21\00:44:42.91
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:42.94\00:44:44.28
That's what sinks the ship.
00:44:44.31\00:44:47.18
That is powerful. Yeah.
00:44:47.22\00:44:48.55
Now walk me through
00:44:48.58\00:44:49.92
because you're
going to be with us,
00:44:49.95\00:44:51.29
with the Thompsonville
Church, three sessions.
00:44:51.32\00:44:52.69
Yes.
00:44:52.72\00:44:54.06
In its broader sense,
00:44:54.12\00:44:55.46
what are we talking about
00:44:55.49\00:44:57.33
the first session,
the second and the third?
00:44:57.39\00:44:59.56
Okay. Well, I don't generally
stick to a rigid agenda
00:44:59.59\00:45:03.37
because it's eclectic.
00:45:03.40\00:45:04.73
And the people ask
questions, there is interaction.
00:45:04.77\00:45:07.07
We might shift stuff around.
00:45:07.14\00:45:08.77
But generally the five
areas that we will be covering
00:45:08.80\00:45:11.64
from the first session
would be the introduction.
00:45:11.67\00:45:14.38
What is emotional intelligence,
00:45:14.41\00:45:15.81
defining the framework,
00:45:15.84\00:45:17.18
looking at the four categories,
00:45:17.25\00:45:19.01
the role of the
heart and the brain
00:45:19.05\00:45:20.98
and processing
emotions etcetera,
00:45:21.02\00:45:22.45
so that will be
the first session.
00:45:22.48\00:45:24.79
The second session
deals with the learning system
00:45:24.82\00:45:28.99
in terms of as I
said, the subconscious,
00:45:29.02\00:45:30.73
conscious mind.
00:45:30.76\00:45:32.09
How do we process in a five step
00:45:32.13\00:45:34.20
methodology using,
00:45:34.20\00:45:35.80
when as assessment,
exploration etcetera
00:45:35.83\00:45:38.83
to apply emotional
intelligent techniques.
00:45:38.87\00:45:41.74
And then the last session
00:45:41.77\00:45:43.24
would be the application
to these specific areas.
00:45:43.27\00:45:46.37
Looking, as I
said, the parenting,
00:45:46.41\00:45:47.91
the communication,
conflict resolution etcetera.
00:45:47.94\00:45:50.61
Understood. Now let me ask
you this because in Barbados
00:45:50.65\00:45:53.25
I think you were
given one session.
00:45:53.28\00:45:54.62
Yes. You were in one session.
00:45:54.65\00:45:56.28
Can you really do
anything in one session
00:45:56.32\00:45:58.35
or do you really
like a little more time
00:45:58.39\00:45:59.79
to sort of walk us
through this kind of deal?
00:45:59.82\00:46:01.32
Yeah. However much time
I'm given, I work with it.
00:46:01.36\00:46:03.66
So I could do
it in half an hour,
00:46:03.69\00:46:06.23
in a sermon in 45
minutes or in two days.
00:46:06.26\00:46:10.77
So however much
time I have I use.
00:46:10.80\00:46:13.54
And so obviously
the shorter the time,
00:46:13.57\00:46:15.54
it would be more surface.
00:46:15.57\00:46:16.91
Sure.
00:46:16.94\00:46:18.27
And so in an hour or 45 minutes,
00:46:18.31\00:46:19.71
it would be an
awareness and explanation
00:46:19.74\00:46:22.08
of the concepts as we discussed
00:46:22.11\00:46:23.85
here in a few
minutes, what it's all about.
00:46:23.88\00:46:26.51
But in terms of application
and learning about it,
00:46:26.75\00:46:29.52
it will take a
longer period of time.
00:46:29.55\00:46:31.09
Yeah.
00:46:31.12\00:46:32.45
Because my wife heard
your total presentation.
00:46:32.49\00:46:34.29
I was running and I would
be doing all kinds of things,
00:46:34.32\00:46:36.32
but I heard enough to,
to peak my intelligence.
00:46:36.36\00:46:38.63
And of course Thompsonville
00:46:38.66\00:46:40.00
will get the
benefit of three sessions.
00:46:40.03\00:46:41.33
Exactly. You know this weekend.
00:46:41.36\00:46:43.43
I think I want to do this
00:46:43.47\00:46:44.80
because we've talked
about a number of things.
00:46:44.83\00:46:46.17
You may have heard
something that intrigues you
00:46:46.20\00:46:48.37
or you may want
to contact Dr. Bertin
00:46:48.40\00:46:52.31
or have him come to your church,
00:46:52.34\00:46:53.68
your school, your business,
00:46:53.74\00:46:56.34
dare I say and walk
your employees through this
00:46:56.38\00:47:00.65
or your fellow church members.
00:47:00.68\00:47:02.22
Should you want to contact him,
00:47:02.25\00:47:03.92
here is how you
can do precisely that.
00:47:03.95\00:47:06.62
If you would
like to contact Cletus
00:47:09.36\00:47:10.96
to find out how you can teach
00:47:10.99\00:47:12.33
your children
emotional intelligence.
00:47:12.36\00:47:14.60
Then you can write
to Cletus K. Bertin,
00:47:14.63\00:47:17.17
Post Office Box
CP-6380, Castries, St. Lucia.
00:47:17.20\00:47:22.07
That's Cletus K. Bertin,
00:47:22.10\00:47:24.11
Post Office Box
CP-6380, Castries, St. Lucia.
00:47:24.14\00:47:29.61
You can call 758-285-2875.
00:47:29.64\00:47:33.62
That's 758-285-2875.
00:47:33.65\00:47:37.85
You can also send him an email
00:47:37.89\00:47:39.52
at ckbertin@gmail.com.
00:47:39.55\00:47:42.49
That's ckbertin@gmail.com.
00:47:42.52\00:47:48.60
Call or write to him today.
00:47:48.63\00:47:50.63
All right. You may want to
get a hold of the good doctor
00:47:54.37\00:47:59.07
because his
information is so relevant,
00:47:59.11\00:48:01.58
so pertinent to
what we're doing today.
00:48:01.61\00:48:03.48
And as I said we got a chance
to hear a little bit of it
00:48:03.51\00:48:05.91
and this is good
stuff and relevant stuff.
00:48:05.95\00:48:09.78
There are those who...
00:48:09.82\00:48:12.79
Once you start
talking about mind
00:48:12.82\00:48:14.59
and mentality and subconscious
00:48:14.62\00:48:17.66
and conscious, think
you're kind of peddling snake
00:48:17.69\00:48:20.16
or you know, a
little afraid of that,
00:48:20.23\00:48:21.53
psychologist, psychiatry,
00:48:21.56\00:48:22.96
why should they
not fear those things?
00:48:23.00\00:48:24.47
Right. Because it's part of us.
00:48:24.50\00:48:25.83
It's God given.
00:48:25.87\00:48:27.24
And what we're talking about,
00:48:27.27\00:48:28.60
as I said it's not a quick fix,
00:48:28.64\00:48:29.97
it's not a overnight solution.
00:48:30.01\00:48:31.34
It's something that
we have to grow into
00:48:31.37\00:48:33.07
and work with as
we all are progressing
00:48:33.11\00:48:35.84
and growing in grace.
00:48:35.88\00:48:37.25
So it's not
something that is magical
00:48:37.28\00:48:38.98
or something that will
happen instantaneously.
00:48:39.01\00:48:41.28
That's not the promise
that has been made at all.
00:48:41.32\00:48:43.89
It's simply a matter of
using our God given attributes
00:48:43.92\00:48:47.66
and applying
certain tools and techniques
00:48:47.69\00:48:49.96
to enhance our relationship
with others and ourselves.
00:48:50.03\00:48:52.99
Amen and amen. Thank
you so very, very much.
00:48:53.03\00:48:54.76
Thank you for having me.
00:48:54.83\00:48:56.13
It's been a pleasure
and you're not going yet.
00:48:56.16\00:48:58.00
But we're gonna take a minute
00:48:58.03\00:48:59.37
to bring Sandra Entermann back.
00:48:59.40\00:49:02.24
And she's gonna be
singing "Author of Our Lives."
00:49:02.27\00:49:05.94
Some summer mornings
00:49:26.29\00:49:30.30
As day was dawning
00:49:30.37\00:49:34.37
Sweet birds saw us in field
00:49:34.40\00:49:37.54
Feel him,
00:49:37.61\00:49:42.68
Then she awakened
00:49:42.71\00:49:46.25
And said a happy payer
00:49:46.28\00:49:52.99
Sometime some sadness
00:49:58.83\00:50:02.83
Rained on her gladness
00:50:02.86\00:50:07.00
She just kept moving on
00:50:07.04\00:50:14.54
She is a treasure,
00:50:14.58\00:50:18.68
We miss her since she is gone
00:50:18.71\00:50:26.49
And we're just
here a little while
00:50:31.03\00:50:38.97
Yes, we'll be here
00:50:39.00\00:50:43.34
A short time
00:50:43.37\00:50:48.44
But God does keep His promises
00:50:48.48\00:50:55.48
He is the author of our lives
00:50:55.52\00:51:03.56
God's the author
00:51:03.63\00:51:08.60
Of our lives
00:51:08.63\00:51:14.90
Christ is our
Father, Christ is our Brother
00:51:21.34\00:51:29.22
He teaches the art
00:51:29.25\00:51:32.42
Of life
00:51:32.45\00:51:37.66
Even in sadness
00:51:37.69\00:51:41.00
Through peace He gives us minds
00:51:41.03\00:51:48.17
Tenderly
watching over His children
00:51:53.84\00:52:01.62
As they use
00:52:01.65\00:52:03.15
His gift of time
00:52:03.18\00:52:10.26
Maybe tomorrow
00:52:10.33\00:52:13.90
His face will
00:52:13.93\00:52:16.33
Greet our eyes
00:52:16.36\00:52:21.77
And we're just
here a little while
00:52:26.21\00:52:41.22