Welcome back to
the Creator Revealed.
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We're talking today
about how to share your belief
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and God as our Creator.
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And we have a special guest
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whom I just
love, Dr. Tom Shepherd.
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Yes.
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Tom Shepherd and I
go back many years.
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We taught together in Nebraska
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and now he teaches
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in the Adventist
Theological Seminary
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at Andrews
University in Michigan.
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I bet he has on one of
his signature ties today.
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I bet he does as well.
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You might be
surprised by the style,
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but it could be anything.
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So welcome,
welcome, Dr. Shepherd.
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Thank you so
much for joining us.
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So we've been talking
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about how to share
this Doctrine of Creation
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with other people,
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people who
don't already believe.
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Now, you are a
theologian and you are a pastor.
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I know you have
a pastor's heart.
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And so I'm wondering
from your perspective.
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Obviously, I've
just talked about it
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from the
perspective of a scientist.
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But from the
perspective of a pastor,
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what are the most effective ways
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of sharing the creation?
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And what might be some things
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that we would
like to avoid doing,
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if we want to be effective?
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Okay.
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The first thing is
you never win an argument.
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So it's never good to argue
with people about creation.
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If they don't believe,
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it's not good
to push it on them.
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I believe that sharing creation
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is actually part
of sharing the gospel.
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So, in fact,
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that's a very
natural place to begin
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in sharing the gospel
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because it's the beginning
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of all life on this
planet, in our universe.
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So it depends on the situation
in which I would find myself
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or who I would be with,
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exactly how I
would approach this.
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But if I gave a
scenario where I was travelling.
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This next week
I'll be travelling
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with students to Denver
for professional meetings,
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and maybe I'll be
sitting to next to somebody.
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My way of sharing
the gospel with people
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starts with
what I call, tagging.
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It's not
actually from me, it's...
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I heard this from somebody else.
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When we were little
kids, we played tag,
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and it was tag when you're hit.
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So in sharing the
gospel in this way,
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and just having a
normal conversation
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with somebody about who you are,
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what you do, that kind of thing.
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You share something
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that is part of
your spiritual life.
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For me, it's fairly easy,
I tell you, I'm a teacher,
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and they say, "Oh,
what do you teach?"
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And I say, "Well, I
teach the New Testament
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in the Bible at a seminary."
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I have just tagged them.
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I've just told them,
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"I'm a spiritual person,
and does that interest you?"
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So if they tag me
back and they say,
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"Oh, you teach New Testament,
that's really interesting."
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They have just said,
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"I'm also spiritual
person and I'd like to talk."
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Now if they say, "Oh,
do you play golf too?"
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Then I may know
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that they may not want to
talk about spiritual things.
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And I might tag them again,
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but I'm not going
to push them on that.
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But let's suppose that somebody
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has, you know
showed an interest,
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and so it comes up
the subject of creation.
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Of course, there are many people
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who are like unbelievers,
a number of unbelievers,
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and how do you
reach out to them?
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I think one of the best
ways is to share with them
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the benefits of
believing in creation.
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Things like,
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God is watching over
us, God is caring for us,
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that there's a clear beginning,
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so there's a clear
end where we're headed,
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and it's going to be
glorious according to the Bible.
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I also believe
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that sharing people
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the idea of the image of God,
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that we are made in His image
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in the holistic
anthropology in the Bible.
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I mean, in simple
terms, to share with people,
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shares with them the benefits
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of this great
Doctrine of Creation.
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You know, that's
really interesting
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because it's
interesting to me to see this.
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That's a very clever technique,
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this tagging, tagging technique.
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But I was also, you know, I
was here nodding and agreeing
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because of course,
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I think that we do agree
on a number of these things
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and especially,
especially on this point
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of presenting the
beauty of what's there,
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the attractiveness of it.
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Yeah.
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If we make Christianity
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and the idea of
creation unattractive,
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of course, people
aren't going to want to do it.
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Now I actually
have another question,
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it's related.
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You're going to a
professional meeting next week,
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and
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for better or for worse,
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I know that there
are a lot of theologians
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who have quite unbiblical ideas
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about the creation.
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So the question that I have is,
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how do you deal
with people like that?
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They would be
spiritual people already,
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so how do you deal with them?
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Okay.
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Of course,
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I'm not going
to argue with them.
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If they want to share,
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then I would present my position
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on the creation
scripture as a historical event.
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Now among theologians,
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the question of the historicity
of the first 11 chapters
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of the Book of
Genesis, it's a big, a big issue
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and a big debate
that they go over.
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But I would share
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maybe some aspects
of the creation story
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that point towards it
being not just sort of poetry,
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but it being
linked into history.
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The Sabbath is actually
one of those characteristics.
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The Sabbath command
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enshrines that whole
idea of the creation,
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and in six days
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God made the
heaven and the earth.
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So we probably as professionals
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would talk about
some aspects of the text
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that would go beyond
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what, you know, I might share
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if I was on an
airplane sitting next to...
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You know, just somebody
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who hadn't had that
kind of experience before.
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What about given your
expertise in the New Testament?
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I think you might heard
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my discussions
earlier with Shelley,
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about, you know, she says,
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"I was a New
Testament Christian."
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I grew up in a
New Testament church.
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In a New Testament church.
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So you are a
professor of New Testament
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there in the seminary.
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Is the creation there?
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Is there a starting point
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that you might
choose in the New Testament
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instead of arguing about those
first 11 chapters of Genesis
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back in the Old
Testament, of course?
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Sure, absolutely.
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The Creation doctrine is found
throughout the New Testament.
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I have a
presentation that I gave,
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if you have time I
can share the whole thing,
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it takes probably
about at least half-an-hour
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or could go on, on and on.
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I'll have to
work on that one day.
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I'm sure it's fabulous.
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Yeah, throughout
many and many books
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of the New Testament,
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creation is this
foundational kind of concept.
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Let me share one
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that's in the Book
of Matthew Chapter 19,
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Pharisees were asking Jesus,
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whether it's all
right to divorce.
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And Jesus was very much
in favor of staying married
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and not getting divorced.
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And the basis of his argument
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was that God made
male and female, and He...
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The man leaves his
father, his mother,
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and is joined to his wife.
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So Jesus took
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the stories of
creation as historical events,
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because if it's not
historical, His argument fails.
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And so Matthew 19 is one of
those very clear indications
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that in the New Testament,
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it accepts the historicity
of those creation accounts.
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And there's many
examples like this
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throughout the New Testament
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that point in
the same direction.
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You know, one of the
things that really impressed me
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when I was
reading through the Bible,
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and I do this
every now and again
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is where the creation shows up.
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And one of...
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You know,
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because I'm not really
a theologian or anything,
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I like those action books.
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And the Book of Acts is
full of all of these things,
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and I was shocked to note
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how often the
creation is discussed there.
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Yes.
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It's very, very
interesting where it shows up.
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And, you know,
when you consider...
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I'm sorry, I was
just going to say,
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if you consider
the Book of Romans,
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and the whole idea of
the fall and the first Adam.
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I mean, the
whole plan of salvation
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is built around
the story of creation.
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Yes.
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I mean, Romans is filled
with the idea of creation
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and the Book of Acts,
as Tim had stated also.
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When Paul goes and talks to
the Greek philosophers in...
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On Mars Hill, then
he refers to creation.
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And that's one
of the basic parts
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of his argument.
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Missionaries
actually find it useful
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when they are going
to traditional cultures
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to start with the
story of creation as part
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of sharing the gospel
because it's so foundational
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that God created the
world, the world went wrong,
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God restores the
world and the gospel.
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If you don't have the
basis in creation and the fall,
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you don't have a reason
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for the redemption
that's found in Christ.
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So it's all
interlinked together,
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these ideas of
creation in scripture,
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and sharing with them.
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Yeah.
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It's one of these things
that's really very impressive
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about the scriptures.
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The way...
00:10:05.13\00:10:06.50
These books had
many different authors
00:10:06.53\00:10:09.00
but the same inspiration
and everything interlinks
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in a very clear and logical way.
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There isn't a different
gospel in the Old Testament
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than there is in New Testament.
00:10:17.88\00:10:19.21
Absolutely.
00:10:19.25\00:10:20.58
You're right.
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We've always been
saved by grace through faith.
00:10:21.98\00:10:23.62
Exactly.
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Well, Dr. Shepherd, I
want to thank you so much
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for joining us.
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It's been a real
pleasure to see you again.
00:10:29.32\00:10:32.19
Amen!
00:10:32.23\00:10:34.80
Always good to see
you, Tim and Shelley.
00:10:34.83\00:10:36.80
Give your
sweetheart a hug from me.
00:10:36.83\00:10:40.00
Thank you very much.
00:10:40.04\00:10:41.37
All right. God bless.
00:10:41.40\00:10:43.20
You know, when we
were talking there
00:10:43.24\00:10:44.97
about the Book of Acts,
00:10:45.01\00:10:46.37
and Paul on Mars Hill
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or sometimes it's
called the Areopagus,
00:10:48.11\00:10:50.91
there in Athens.
00:10:50.95\00:10:52.28
It reminds me of the
time when I was with a friend,
00:10:52.31\00:10:55.45
and we were
walking through Athens,
00:10:55.48\00:10:58.09
and climbed up the hill
towards the acropolis there,
00:10:58.12\00:11:01.66
and we saw this
big plate, bronze plate
00:11:01.69\00:11:06.43
and we started
reading it, it was in Greek.
00:11:06.46\00:11:09.40
And lo and
behold, it was the story,
00:11:09.43\00:11:12.67
it was the story
that's laid out there,
00:11:12.70\00:11:15.64
the sermon that
was given by Paul.
00:11:15.67\00:11:18.04
It was so impressive.
00:11:18.07\00:11:19.71
And right there and
then, that was probably a time
00:11:19.74\00:11:23.95
when I was so
profoundly struck by the fact
00:11:23.98\00:11:26.41
that he actually
starts of his sermon
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with all of these
philosophers with...
00:11:28.92\00:11:31.62
"Hey, I'm going to introduce you
00:11:31.65\00:11:32.99
to the unknowing
God, you know who He is?"
00:11:33.02\00:11:35.82
This is the creator God.
00:11:35.86\00:11:37.93
Amen. Yeah.
00:11:37.96\00:11:39.29
So then he built
everything else of that.
00:11:39.33\00:11:40.90
It's quite an
impressive, impressive thing.
00:11:40.93\00:11:44.70
Amen.
00:11:44.73\00:11:46.07
Again, I always go back
to the idea that God had...
00:11:46.10\00:11:50.87
Christ was the lamb slain
00:11:50.91\00:11:53.51
before the
foundation of the world.
00:11:53.54\00:11:55.54
So God has had a plan in mind.
00:11:55.58\00:11:58.51
He created a perfect creation,
but in His foreknowledge,
00:11:58.55\00:12:02.48
He knew what was going to happen
00:12:02.52\00:12:04.02
and the sacrifice He
had to make to save us.
00:12:04.05\00:12:07.62
And this is the beautiful story.
00:12:07.66\00:12:09.49
That's the gospel.
00:12:09.52\00:12:10.86
The beautiful reality
00:12:10.89\00:12:12.63
that we as Christians
have to share with the world.
00:12:12.66\00:12:15.26
Amen. Amen.
00:12:15.30\00:12:16.63
And we hope
00:12:16.67\00:12:18.00
that this
series has provided you
00:12:18.03\00:12:20.34
a foundation
00:12:20.37\00:12:22.07
and an understanding
00:12:22.10\00:12:23.44
that you'll get out
00:12:23.47\00:12:24.81
and share Jesus today.
00:12:24.84\00:12:26.31