Welcome back to
The Creator Revealed.
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We've been talking about
Bible truths and science.
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And how can a scientist
truly believe in the Bible?
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Well, we have a special
guest with us for this segment
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and he's going to address that.
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Yes, we're meeting
with Dr. Leonard Brand.
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He has been a
leader among scientists
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at Loma Linda University,
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which was a Christian University
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in California
for many, many years.
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He's the author of the book,
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Faith, Reason and Earth History.
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So this is
something that he has given
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a lot of thought to.
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And in addition to that,
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he's the author of many
peer reviewed science papers.
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In fact, right now,
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he's involved in
some very interesting
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scientific research
that has to do with geology.
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So let's meet Dr. Brand.
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Hi, Dr. Brand. Welcome.
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Well, it's good to
talk to you this morning.
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You know, I think
what I want to do is,
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I want to start
out by asking you
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about this belief
that you have in the Bible.
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I mean, do you
really believe it?
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Or you sort of giving it more,
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you know, lip service,
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but kind of
redefining terms or something
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so that it doesn't get
in the way of the science
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that you do?
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No, I believe it very much
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so and it
doesn't get in the way.
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Who knows more
about geology, we or us?
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Do we know more,
or does God know more?
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Well, it's clear to
me that God knows more
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and so I accept
what the Bible says.
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Okay,
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and so when you
are doing your science,
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how exactly, I
mean does the Bible
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really make any difference
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or is it sort of
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more of a kind of
moral guide in your life
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and you just sort
of believe by faith,
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but does it impact
your science really at all?
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Well, the science
that's impacted the most
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by the Bible
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is when we're
studying ancient history,
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whether it be biological history
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or geological history.
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That's when it matters a lot
because the Bible tells us that
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that the history of
this earth is different
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from what most scientists say,
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and so that's what it
makes a lot of difference.
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And it gives us clues
about how to look at the rocks,
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how to understand the rocks,
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clues that we would
not have had otherwise.
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So what specifically like...
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Okay, you do geology research.
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I mean, in what way
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does the Bible inform that?
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Okay, well, one of
the geological deposits
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that I am studying
along with colleagues
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like Arthur Chadwick
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is a Moenkopi Formation in Utah,
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and the standard
explanation is that accumulated
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over many millions of years.
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Okay, well, the Bible tells me,
no, it didn't happen that way.
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It happened much faster
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and so I asked questions
when I look at the Moenkopi
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that other
people are not asking.
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And when we do
that, I noticed things,
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then it's clear that
other people are not noticing.
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So that's really how it helps.
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So do you want to
give us some specifics?
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I mean, what sort of
things would you notice
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that somebody else
wouldn't really be seeing that?
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Well, they would understand
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that these
layers in the Moenkopi
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were deposited very
slowly over millions of years
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and when we look at them,
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we see evidence that says,
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no, this had to be
happened very different,
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much more catastrophically,
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making individual deposits
of sediment over large areas
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all at once, which won't
happen in the modern world
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and so it's different
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from how scientists
would interpret things.
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They look at how things
happen in the modern world,
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how streams deposit sediments,
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how rivers deposit
sediments and other processes.
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And then they
would look at the rocks
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and assume that the rocks
were formed in the same way
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that we see
processes happening today.
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And, but that's an assumption.
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When we look at the
rocks with a biblical insight,
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we see that
evidence doesn't fit that.
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The evidence says
this was deposited
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in not like it
happens in the modern world,
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but something very different
on a catastrophic large scale.
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Okay, so that actually brings up
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really two other
questions that I would have.
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Number one, what
you're saying then is that
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whatever the process
was that created these
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really widespread
layers of sedimentary rock,
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it's different than what
we observe going on today.
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That's right, very different.
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And this is not
just in this one deposit
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I'm talking about,
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you find it all
through the rocks
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when we look at them carefully,
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letting the Bible suggest
to us new ways of interpreting.
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Okay.
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And then the second
question then would be,
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well, what is it in the
Bible that that suggests
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that there was
something uniquely different
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going on in the past?
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Well, the Bible gives us
a timeframe since creation
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about few thousand years,
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and it tells us
about the global flood.
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Okay.
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Which was not just streams
depositing sand and gravel.
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It was a catastrophic,
very large scale global process
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and so we have to put the rocks
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in that context
when we're studying them.
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And that's what
gives us insights
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to see them differently
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from how other people see them.
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Now, I know
that you've mentioned
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this kind of
gradualistic process
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where...
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What we observe going on today.
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And what I'm wondering is,
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okay, I know that
that's been a widespread view
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among geologists
for quite some time.
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It's certainly
the kind of geology
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I was taught
when I was a student.
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But as other
scientists are looking at these
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and other rock layers and so on,
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are they also coming
to similar conclusions,
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are they invoking
some kind of catastrophes
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or the majority of
geologists sort of sticking
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with this slow, gradualistic
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kind of view of geology?
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Well, let's look at
a brief bit of history
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about this concept
that you're asking.
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In, say the
1700s and early 1800s,
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most geologists
were catastrophists.
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They saw things
happening catastrophically.
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A couple of geologists
wrote books that change this
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and the primary one
was Lyell in the mid 1800s,
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he wrote a set of two books
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that redefined
the field of geology
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and actually began
geology as an organized science.
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And he didn't
like this catastrophism
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and so he defined geology
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by saying that everything
happens slowly and gradually,
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there are no catastrophes.
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And that was...
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And that dominated
geology for a century.
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Everything happens
very slowly and gradually.
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There are no catastrophes.
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In the early
decades of the 1900s,
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there was an
independent thinking geologist
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who challenged
that with the deposit
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he was studying
in Washington State.
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And he...
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Even though the
others ridiculed him
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for several decades,
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he continue collecting data
and he finally showed that yes,
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this deposit he was studying
was formed by a catastrophe.
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And so that finally
woke up other geologists,
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but it made only a small change.
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They still see
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geologic processes is happening,
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generally, slowly and gradually,
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but they do
recognize that once in a while
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there was some
kind of a catastrophe.
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But they will not accept.
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So basically,
what they're saying is,
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there were several major
catastrophes in the past,
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some things that occurred
on almost a global scale.
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I don't think they'd say global,
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this is much a local.
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They will accept
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some relatively
local catastrophes.
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But otherwise things have
moved slowly and gradually.
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Okay, so
basically they're saying
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a big catastrophe over here,
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a big catastrophe over there,
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but no universal or
no global catastrophe.
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They don't wanna put them
all together into one big thing.
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No, they don't, actually
that some of the evidence
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would fit that better
but their assumptions,
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their paradigm
will not allow that.
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Because that sounds,
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you know, well, put it this way.
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If you try to be so catastrophic
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that it questions
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the Darwinian
evolutionary process,
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the millions of
years of evolution
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and geologic process,
then that's a problem.
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They won't accept that.
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Okay.
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Well, thank you so
very much for your time.
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I guess there's probably
one more question that I have.
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And that really has to do with
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what we've been
talking about right now,
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which is, would you say
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that people who
believe the Bible
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are having influence
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on the wider
thinking about geology
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or would you say
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the people are simply
being drawn by the data
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more towards this
catastrophic kind of view?
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Well, when we publish papers
in the scientific literature,
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we have to be
careful what we say.
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We can't talk about
a biblical worldview.
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We can't talk about anything
that we present the data
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and talk about how
it specifically applies
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to what we're studying.
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And so in that sense,
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we're having
influence here and there.
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We're not changing the way
geologists think, in general.
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Okay.
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Well, thank you so much
for your time. Dr. Brand.
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It's been a real
pleasure and thanks for the work
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that you're doing there
at Loma Linda University.
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Dr. Brand's office is
quite close to my own.
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And it's an honor
to work on that campus
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with these incredible people.
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Thank you, Dr. Brand.
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You're welcome.
00:11:09.53\00:11:10.87
You know,
Shelley, it's a common idea
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that scientists like
Dr. Brand are a rarity.
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But in reality, I
encounter them all the time.
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I believe the
Bible, I do science.
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Dr. Brand believes the Bible,
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he does science,
excellent science,
00:11:25.45\00:11:27.22
it gets published
in that sort of rough
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and tumble world of
publishing science papers.
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It's not a joke,
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your ideas
really have to be tested
00:11:34.99\00:11:37.49
very thoroughly
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and, and yet,
they're everywhere.
00:11:39.23\00:11:42.96
And more and more
scientists I'm reading books
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and reading excerpts from books,
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that more and more
scientists are coming over
00:11:47.94\00:11:51.74
that they're, you know,
people who were atheists
00:11:51.77\00:11:54.24
are now believing
00:11:54.28\00:11:56.54
in the biblical
account of creation.
00:11:56.58\00:11:59.45
If you can overcome
this materialistic philosophy
00:11:59.48\00:12:02.98
that we tend to
get indoctrinated with,
00:12:03.02\00:12:05.42
then it is absolutely true
00:12:05.45\00:12:07.56
that the creation does point you
00:12:07.59\00:12:10.13
towards the Creator.
00:12:10.16\00:12:11.69
And it really does
reveal the Creator to us.
00:12:11.73\00:12:15.10
Well, science is exciting,
00:12:15.13\00:12:17.10
and we are just so thankful
to have these wonderful people
00:12:17.13\00:12:21.84
come and share this
good information with us
00:12:21.87\00:12:25.07
and that you can know.
00:12:25.11\00:12:26.78
It isn't contradictory
to believe both the Bible
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and have a scientific mind.
00:12:30.48\00:12:32.21
Please join us next
time because we're gonna talk
00:12:32.25\00:12:35.15
about how you can
share the creation.
00:12:35.18\00:12:37.65