Welcome back to
The Creator Revealed.
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If we believe
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the biblical
account of creation,
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and we certainly do,
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then we know that
man was created special,
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and that means that
human rights are rooted
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in the Bible's
account of creation.
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Well, certainly,
history has shown us
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that when people take
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this particular
understanding of humanity,
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created in the image
of God, created equal,
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then with that understanding,
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there are all kinds
of wonderful benefits
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that come along with that.
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Amen.
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We're going to meet a lawyer,
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a lawyer who has practice
in the area of civil rights
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and religious freedom,
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and his name happens
to be James Standish.
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And he can?
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And he might just be my brother.
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So I'm pretty proud of him.
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And we certainly have had some
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very interesting
conversations together
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over the course of our lifetime.
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So here's my brother.
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Let's meet him.
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Welcome, James.
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Thanks.
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Well, it's great
that you could join us.
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And we've been talking
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about this idea of human rights.
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You're a lawyer, so tell
us where exactly do our ideas
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about the creation,
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sort of, feed into the
laws that we have to follow
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in a country
like the United States
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or really in many
other systems of law?
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Well, as you know,
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our idea of human
rights is first expressed
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in the
Declaration of Independence,
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where it says that we're endowed
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by our creator.
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So right from
the very beginning,
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the United States
anchored our human rights
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in the idea that we're
all equal children of God.
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Very interestingly,
as you'll also know,
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around the same
time as the United States
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had went through its revolution
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and then adopted
its constitution,
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the country of
France was going through
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a similar revolution,
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but they did not
anchor their rights
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in the idea of the Creator God,
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and their revolution
ended up as a bloodbath.
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And it's
actually their revolution
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that has been
more commonly followed
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over the years than
the American Revolution.
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We think of the
Marxist revolutions,
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we think of the
Fascist revolutions,
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all of those are
anchored in a secular idea
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of the rights of the people
and the rights of the state,
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a very different idea.
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One of the things
that's interesting,
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Tim and Shelley, that
at least I find fascinating
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is in addition
to the United States
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idea of human rights,
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we have article,
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the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights
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that came out after World War II
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through the
United Nations' process.
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And what is
interesting is, over the years,
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a number of
regimes have critiqued
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the United Nations
Human Rights Declaration
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because they say
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it is anchored
in a Judeo-Christian
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view of the world and therefore,
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it's not applicable to societies
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that are not anchored
in that same worldview.
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And in a way, their
right is overwhelming evidence
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that Christians and Jews
work together to formulate
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the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights.
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And in a way,
they are correct to say
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those rights may
not apply to our culture
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because we don't buy the
premises of those rights.
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But then...
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Obviously, people argue...
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But then how
would we respond then
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to, let's say, atheists who say,
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"Well, look, we
don't need the Bible.
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We don't need any God.
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We can just sort of be good."
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And why isn't that enough?
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Well, the first
question is to those who say,
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"My religion is to be
good or we can just be good
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without the Bible,"
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is this, what does
it mean to be good?
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For some of us, it means,
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the statement to be good
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means respecting
other people's rights
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to follow their
own faith traditions,
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it means following
the freedom of speech,
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permitting people
the right to assemble,
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etcetera.
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For other people,
the idea of allowing
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that level of
freedom is a dangerous thing
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that results in
behaviors or beliefs
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that they disagree
with, and therefore,
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think you're objectively wrong.
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Similarly, for some of us,
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we believe that good
involves protecting life,
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both at the beginning of
life and at the end of life.
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For others,
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there's nothing good about that.
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It is just a matter,
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and matter doesn't
have innate rights.
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It just has a utility.
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And if it's unwanted,
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then it should be
able to be terminated.
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So those...
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So there we would be talking
about the kinds of things
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that we hear,
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philosophers or
ethicists like Peter Singer
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then talking about this
kind of utilitarian idea.
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Exactly.
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And, you know, once again,
this goes to the heart of...
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You can't say,
"Let's just do what's good
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because what is good,
what is love, etcetera."
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These are really the
basis of a discussion.
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And if you have a different view
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of where you're
getting the definitions from,
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you're gonna come ultimately
to different outcomes.
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And you and I both
lived in Southeast Asia
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during very tumultuous times.
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We know that people
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who were part of
Pol Pot's Cambodia,
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for example,
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they thought they were
creating an ideal world.
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And if you're
creating an ideal utopia,
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you have right to kill
those who stand in its way.
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It's the same
philosophy that Robespierre
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during the French
Revolution went through.
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If you're standing in
the way of human perfection,
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eliminating you
benefits everybody,
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so there's a
utilitarian analysis
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that says you should do it.
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On the converse side,
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there are those
of us who believe
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if you're created by God,
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you have
inalienable rights, that is,
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those rights
cannot be taken away,
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and those rights include
the right to liberty and life.
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And even if there is a utility
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in ending someone's life,
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that utility cannot be pursued
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because the right
supersedes the utility.
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Okay, so...
Translate that to English.
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What that means
is, as I understand it,
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what that would
mean then is, "Hey..."
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Really, when you
were talking about things
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like the value
of somebody's life,
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if one person's life,
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if you judge it
to have less value
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than somebody else's life,
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then it's okay to
kill that other person,
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it's okay for that person
whose life is less valuable
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to be dealt with differently.
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There is no
equality between people.
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You are not equal
just because you're human.
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So a smart rich
person might have more value
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than a poor sick person.
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And for our viewers and
those who are listening,
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who believes this?
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Oh, this is a
widely held belief,
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but perhaps James
could comment on that.
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In our lifetimes, many
people have believed it.
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That's how we got
Pol Pot in Cambodia.
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It's how we had the about...
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They estimated somewhere
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in the range of 30
million people died
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during Mao's rule of China.
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It's what happened
in the Soviet Union
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where 10s of millions...
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If you add up
all the people killed
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during the communist
era, their estimates vary,
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but they go as high
as 100 million people.
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That's even more than fascism.
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But fascism also
believed the same thing.
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We're building a
utopia here on earth,
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therefore,
anyone who's in the way
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of getting to that utopia,
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which will be
good for everybody,
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anyone who gets in the way
of that should be eliminated.
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And in fact, that's
the moral thing to do
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because we don't view
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the right to life
as an ultimate right,
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we view it as balanced
against the right of the state
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and progress and
all the other things
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that these, sort of, regimes
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and philosophies projected.
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It's not...
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What about here
in the free world,
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what happens when society,
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you know, starts to
embrace these kinds of ideas?
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But let me ask
this quick question.
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This would be the rationale
for genocide then, right?
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It's the rationale...
This pattern of thinking.
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It's a
rationale... Yeah, exactly.
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It's the rationale for genocide,
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but not just genocide.
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It's the rationale for Gulags,
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it's the
rationale for secret police,
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it's the rationale
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for all of that
restriction on people
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because those people
are the enemies of progress.
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And if you're confident
where progress is going
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and you can identify
people who stand in the way,
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the idea is that
those people's rights
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must be sacrificed
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for society's
progress essentially.
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How do we see it in
western countries today?
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Because we know
that western countries
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are becoming more secular
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and that
secularism has an impact
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on that political process.
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I think the way
you see it most clearly
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is in the
disrespect for human life,
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particularly at
the early human life
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and late human life.
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As you know...
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So you're talking
there about abortion
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and euthanasia then?
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Yes, I am. Those two words.
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Yeah. Exactly.
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Well, we have to wrap things up.
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But thank you so
much for joining us.
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James, it's
been a real pleasure.
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I could talk all day,
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but we've got the
rest of our lives together.
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We've got to get
on with this program.
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But thank you very much
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for taking the
time and joining us.
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Thank you, James.
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You know, Shelley,
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talking with James and
being reminded of that time
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when we were
growing up in Thailand
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and the slaughter
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that was going on in the country
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right next door.
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Millions.
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Millions of people slaughtered.
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It's tempting for us
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living in a
relatively peaceful country
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to imagine that our
ideas about the creation,
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you know, they don't have
very much practical value.
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But in reality,
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this society that was
founded on that principle
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that it is self-evident
that all men are created equal.
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And as a consequence of that,
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the human beings
have unalienable rights.
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That means it doesn't
matter whether the person
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is rich, poor, old, young,
fit, ill, it doesn't matter.
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Those rights
cannot be taken away
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from a human being.
00:11:39.23\00:11:40.83
What value
there is in that. Yes.
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What a blessing
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there is in living
in a society like that.
00:11:44.90\00:11:46.63
And the
framework of our government
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is really based
on the laws of God,
00:11:48.30\00:11:50.57
and it's just something that...
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It is. It's a human thing.
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That means it's not perfect.
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But it's a divine thing too.
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It does, you know,
bringing in those principles.
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That's why I thank God every day
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that I wake up
in a free country.
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Amen.
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