Participants: Jon Paulien & Jon Ciccarelli
Series Code: TBOTB
Program Code: TBOTB000013B
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00:01 Welcome back to Books of the Book.
00:03 We're in Second Thessalonians in the final episode 00:07 of our study of First and Second Thessalonians. 00:09 And I'm here with Dr. Paulean and its just great 00:11 been doing this with you and I'm look forward 00:13 to the last part of this study in second Thessalonians. 00:16 So why don't you pick us up here in 00:18 Chapter 3, verses 6 through 8. 00:20 Its really been heart warming for me too. 00:22 Thank you for being part of this with me. 00:24 Absolutely, thank you. 00:25 Chapter 3, verses 6 through 8 we get into some tough stuff here. 00:30 Tough not so much in the sense of interpretation 00:32 like the second Chapter was but tough in the sense of 00:36 how you deal with people, and the hardest thing in life 00:39 is probably dealing with people. 00:41 Verses 6 to 8. Now we command you, brothers. 00:46 Are you serious? Okay, now we command you, 00:49 brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 00:51 to keep away from every brother who walks in idleness. 00:56 And that Greek word there can mean disorderly. 00:59 And not according to the tradition 01:02 which he received from us. 01:03 For you yourselves know how it is necessary 01:06 it is to imitate us, because we were not 01:08 idle or disorderly among you. 01:11 Neither did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, 01:15 but in labor and hardship we were working night and day 01:19 in order not to burden any of you. 01:23 All right. So he is here again talking about tradition. 01:27 He says, you guys are not living according to the tradition. 01:31 What is this tradition? I think it developed 01:35 in the New Testament church in a series of steps. 01:39 The first step was the sayings and the actions of Jesus, 01:44 I think were authoritative right from the start. 01:47 Now the 12 that were with him, the 70 that were with him, 01:50 the 120 in the upper room, they saw every word of Jesus 01:54 and every action of Jesus as authoritative. 01:57 For them it was as powerful as the scriptures, 02:01 the written scriptures that they could hold in their hands. 02:04 You know, Jon right from the beginning obedience to Jesus 02:07 is spoken words were mandatory for those who follow Jesus. 02:11 You know, I think that's a, 02:13 that's a question I ask my church to ask itself. 02:16 I ask them one time in the sermon. 02:18 I think the greatest question that we have to ask ourselves 02:21 today as Christians, as Adventist Christians, 02:24 can you be a disciple without being a follower of Jesus. 02:30 How can you be a Christian 02:31 without being a follower of Jesus? 02:34 And I say no, we can believe all the things 02:38 but if we aren't following Jesus, 02:40 if we don't take seriously what He said 02:41 and what He taught you know, 02:43 Christian the very route is Christ, 02:45 a follower of Christ and so we need to take seriously, 02:48 seriously the things that He said. 02:50 So the tradition in the positive sense all started with Jesus. 02:53 Absolutely. His sayings, His actions 02:55 and then it move to a second stage 02:58 and that is the interpretation of His sayings 03:01 and His actions by the apostles. 03:03 Paul, being one of them, Peter being another one, 03:06 and James and so forth. 03:07 So as the apostles interpreted the sayings of Jesus 03:10 that became authoritative as well. 03:13 And then the third stage is the apostles 03:16 wrote down these interpretations. 03:19 They wrote down their traditions that they have been passing on 03:22 and that became our New Testament 03:25 and it's held by followers of Jesus 03:27 in equal authority with the old. 03:30 Now when Paul has arrived in Thessalonica, 03:33 the first two stages are already done. 03:35 Jesus words and actions are there on the table. 03:39 The apostles oral work is in process those are already 03:42 working the written scripture begins with First Thessalonians. 03:47 Paul didn't know it probably when he was writing the letter, 03:50 but that letter was the first piece 03:52 of New Testament scripture. 03:55 Well, well, you know, there is one thing I like to do, 03:59 I'm gonna share this with, with our viewing audience. 04:02 It something that a mentor of mine did years ago 04:04 and I've never forgotten it and he says 04:07 the Bible is like a filter, and needs to be our filter, 04:11 all the words, the tradition if you will of God 04:14 and what he's done, need to be our filter 04:16 and he'd always takes his Bible and he'd hold it up 04:17 in front of his head like this, he'd say this is our filter 04:22 nothing should get to our brain that doesn't go 04:25 through the word of God, it doesn't go 04:27 through the words of Jesus, it doesn't go through 04:29 the scriptures, its our filter 04:31 we need to process everything, everything through it. 04:34 And you know, sometimes the Bible is first in theory, 04:37 but we don't always practice it that way, 04:40 you know, that's why my own life sometimes 04:41 I sense that I want to hear God on something, 04:44 and sometimes I sense I get this little soft you know, 04:47 voice you know, in my being from the spirit saying, 04:49 well, Jon if you'll just follow through 04:51 what I have already told you to do, 04:53 then I can share with you more, 04:54 but there's stuff in here you know, 04:56 sometimes when I'm waiting for God to lead me in a certain way, 05:00 I just say okay what does He ask me to do in his word 05:02 that maybe I haven't done yet you know, 05:04 that I need to be obedient on. 05:05 But to make that first, I have a colleague 05:07 who told me one time he was preaching the very 05:10 Biblical sermons and someone really had a hard time with it. 05:13 He said, but it's in the Bible and the person said to him 05:15 I don't care if it's in the Bible. 05:17 Oh, my goodness, you know, I started praying for him. 05:21 Yes. Well, one part of the Bible is Paul, 05:24 has a big concern about unruly, disorderly people 05:30 and that's a major issue that he has here. 05:33 The word unruly has to do with willfully disruptive people. 05:40 There are sometimes people in the church 05:42 who just like to make a scene, ever run into that? 05:46 Oh, yes, oh yes. You know, few times 05:49 I should say and you know, its really sad because, 05:51 because it is disrupted to the church, 05:53 it is disrupted to the community that God 05:56 is shaping and forming and you know, 05:59 attitude is so important, people come with 06:02 the wrong attitude and motives, its painful, it can be painful 06:07 and in sometimes you know, when people are blaming people 06:10 in the church or just causing blame, it becomes really 06:14 toxic atmosphere if we don't deal with it. 06:16 That's where that tough love and accountability 06:19 has to be coming, admonishing and you know, 06:23 sometimes you see even, you know, in the prayer request 06:26 you know, they're sharing as a prayer request 06:27 but its not really prayer request, 06:29 its kind of you know, making the statement you know, 06:31 at the same time and that's sad to see. 06:34 But it's so important that we keep 06:36 our focus on the Lord there. 06:38 Everybody in the church and I love Paul's you know, 06:42 in First Corinthians 12, where he talks about 06:44 the church being like a body and Christ is the head 06:47 and we are all connected to the head 06:49 and He is one who guides and directs and leads 06:51 this body and so we really, really need to treat people 06:55 as Jesus did our master. 06:58 And as we're loved by him, then we can also love others 07:01 the way we're experiencing His love in our life. 07:04 For Paul here I think in Second Thessalonians 3 07:07 the disorderly are particularly people 07:09 who're ignoring the tradition. 07:10 If they're not working, if they're disrupting 07:13 the church, or they're being busybodies, 07:15 they're not following the tradition 07:17 and in particular Paul has a tradition in verses 9 to 12 07:22 that we want to take a look at. He says. 07:25 It is not because we have no authority, 07:28 but in order that we might give you an example, 07:32 so you could imitate us. 07:33 So Paul did something there specifically 'cause 07:36 he was worried the Thessalonians might not get it straight. 07:39 For even when we were with you. Verse 10. 07:42 We constantly commanded you like this, 07:44 "If anyone does not wish to work, neither should he eat." 07:49 For we hear that some of you are walking in idleness 07:52 disorderly, instead of being busy, they are busybodies. 07:57 We command and urge such people in the Lord Jesus Christ 08:00 that working in quietness each might eat his own bread. 08:06 So here in the Thessalonians church as positive as the church 08:10 was there were disorderly members and the word 08:14 has a context of willfully idle. 08:17 These are not lazy people, these are people 08:19 who are evading their obligations. 08:22 They're trying to avoid having to work 08:25 and they're pretty crafty but they work hard 08:27 at being busybodies so to speak. 08:30 And this is against Paul's example, 08:34 but it's very much according to the example 08:35 of the popular philosophers that we've mentioned 08:37 from time to time in this series. 08:40 They became philosophers because 08:42 they didn't want to work with their hands. 08:44 And so Paul in that time in places look everybody 08:47 is got to work with their hands or else they're not fulfilling 08:52 the tradition that's here. 08:54 These folk were discussing theology. 08:58 They were criticizing the behavior of others. 09:00 They were creating a lot of stir in the church and Paul says, 09:04 get a job, work w ith your hands get busy, it's time. 09:09 Well, Jon, how can we best apply Paul's words today 09:12 when hard labors done by machines, you know, 09:15 there is not a lot people working with their hands 09:17 'cause machines are doing a lot of things you know, 09:19 we have service workers, you know, 09:21 people who are teachers, and directors 09:24 and different things so. That's a good point, 09:27 That's a good point, Paul says, yeah, 09:29 everybody should work with their hands. 09:30 I think we can do some of that you know, 09:32 like tending a garden, we can get exercise 09:36 and do some task, but often our job 09:39 does not require physical exertion. 09:42 I'll tell you office culture can be very toxic thing. 09:46 People all are hemmed in together, 09:48 they're criticizing each other things. 09:50 What would Paul say to the office culture? 09:54 I think he would say the same things that he's saying here 09:57 work in quietness, don't be woefully disruptive. 10:02 Yeah. And so I think. 10:03 So I think his advice you can't take it 10:06 at absolute face value because circumstances have changed. 10:10 But even for service workers, 10:12 I think the idea of sticking to the task. 10:15 The idea of not spending a lot of time 10:18 in other people's business. That's still good advice today. 10:21 Yeah. Yeah. You know, its interesting though 10:24 because you see homeless people sometimes on the streets 10:28 and we don't know all what their situation is. 10:32 But I know that my wife being a counselor, 10:36 she does see some homeless people that the county pays 10:40 to see and, and she tells me you know, 10:43 some of them they want to remain homeless, 10:47 that's their way that they can you know, 10:49 control their lives and, and they can get enough money 10:51 to do things but you know, what about homeless 10:54 who want to be homeless, that's it you know. 10:59 If I could summarize Paul, I think in today's context 11:03 as close as I can do to to get here right, 11:05 I think he would say mind your own business 11:08 or its take care of your own affairs first. 11:12 Second in whatever you do service or labor 11:15 work for the Lord, think of Jesus as your boss. 11:18 Third, work in quietness and always don't get 11:21 another people's way as you moving 11:24 and in finally be a positive influence whether 11:26 its an office or whether its an construction 11:29 be a positive influence wherever you go 11:31 and I think that's were second Thessalonians 3 11:34 can meet the world are we living today. 11:37 Good stuff. Good stuff. 11:39 Or we better move along to verses 13 through 15 11:43 and Paul says this. As for you, brothers, 11:45 do not become weary in doing good. 11:48 If anyone does not obey our word through this letter, 11:50 take notice of him. 11:51 Do not associate with him, 11:52 in order that he might become ashamed. 11:55 And do not regard him as an enemy, 11:56 but admonish him like a brother. 11:59 Reminds me of a text in Mathew 12:00 but we don't have time to read right now. 12:03 But basically Jesus is saying if you got a problem 12:06 with someone go to them alone, if that doesn't work take 12:10 somebody else, if that doesn't work take it to the church. 12:13 Discipline in the church is tough because 12:16 every errant member is somebody's brother 12:19 or best friend you know, and what do you do, you're pastor. 12:27 You know, it can get really messy. 12:30 But you know, the church sometimes 12:32 isn't always the best that handling this. 12:34 Unfortunately but sometimes it does really well 12:38 and its important for us to reach out to this person 12:42 in love and do everything we can that church should be 12:44 all about redemption and restoration and healing 12:48 relationships I mean, that's what God does with us 12:50 and so we wanna put every effort into that 12:53 and sometimes the offenders aren't necessarily respectful 12:56 of the church either, so it really has to be 12:57 a two way street but they can be done. 13:01 That's why probably church discipline should be handled 13:03 locally because that's were people understand, 13:07 that's were they care, that's way they love. 13:09 Right. So. 13:11 Yeah. Yeah. 13:12 We need to keep in mind though that everyone 13:15 is soul for whom Christ either, everybody, well, Jon-- 13:19 Even the woefully disrupted. That's right, absolutely. 13:23 Jon, it's been so great to be with you in this study. 13:25 Such a honor to sit with you and discuss this things 13:27 and thank you for so much for letting us into your home 13:30 to be able talk about first and second Thessalonians. 13:33 Now we wanna encourage you to allow the spirit to direct 13:36 your heart into the love of God and to way patiently as Jesus 13:40 and so live with Him, be in love with Him 13:43 and be loved by Him. God bless you. |
Revised 2023-01-25