Welcome back to
Books of the Book.
00:00:01.86\00:00:03.30
We're in Second Thessalonians
in the final episode
00:00:03.30\00:00:07.14
of our study of First
and Second Thessalonians.
00:00:07.14\00:00:09.57
And I'm here with Dr.
Paulean and its just great
00:00:09.57\00:00:11.87
been doing this with
you and I'm look forward
00:00:11.87\00:00:13.38
to the last part of this
study in second Thessalonians.
00:00:13.38\00:00:16.18
So why don't you
pick us up here in
00:00:16.18\00:00:18.48
Chapter 3, verses 6 through 8.
00:00:18.48\00:00:20.12
Its really been
heart warming for me too.
00:00:20.12\00:00:22.22
Thank you for being
part of this with me.
00:00:22.22\00:00:24.32
Absolutely, thank you.
00:00:24.32\00:00:25.59
Chapter 3, verses 6 through 8 we
get into some tough stuff here.
00:00:25.59\00:00:30.46
Tough not so much in
the sense of interpretation
00:00:30.46\00:00:32.96
like the second Chapter
was but tough in the sense of
00:00:32.96\00:00:36.83
how you deal with people,
and the hardest thing in life
00:00:36.83\00:00:39.77
is probably dealing with people.
00:00:39.77\00:00:41.97
Verses 6 to 8. Now we
command you, brothers.
00:00:41.97\00:00:46.27
Are you serious?
Okay, now we command you,
00:00:46.27\00:00:49.01
brothers, in the name
of our Lord Jesus Christ,
00:00:49.01\00:00:51.65
to keep away from every
brother who walks in idleness.
00:00:51.65\00:00:56.28
And that Greek word
there can mean disorderly.
00:00:56.28\00:00:59.32
And not
according to the tradition
00:00:59.32\00:01:02.12
which he received from us.
00:01:02.12\00:01:03.86
For you yourselves
know how it is necessary
00:01:03.86\00:01:06.49
it is to imitate
us, because we were not
00:01:06.49\00:01:08.96
idle or disorderly among you.
00:01:08.96\00:01:11.23
Neither did we eat anyone's
bread without paying for it,
00:01:11.23\00:01:15.34
but in labor and hardship
we were working night and day
00:01:15.34\00:01:19.57
in order not to
burden any of you.
00:01:19.57\00:01:23.24
All right. So he is here
again talking about tradition.
00:01:23.24\00:01:27.05
He says, you guys are not living
according to the tradition.
00:01:27.05\00:01:31.92
What is this
tradition? I think it developed
00:01:31.92\00:01:35.76
in the New Testament
church in a series of steps.
00:01:35.76\00:01:39.13
The first step was the sayings
and the actions of Jesus,
00:01:39.13\00:01:44.27
I think were authoritative
right from the start.
00:01:44.27\00:01:47.14
Now the 12 that were with
him, the 70 that were with him,
00:01:47.14\00:01:50.11
the 120 in the upper room,
they saw every word of Jesus
00:01:50.11\00:01:54.38
and every action of
Jesus as authoritative.
00:01:54.38\00:01:57.35
For them it was as
powerful as the scriptures,
00:01:57.35\00:02:01.02
the written scriptures that
they could hold in their hands.
00:02:01.02\00:02:04.49
You know, Jon right from
the beginning obedience to Jesus
00:02:04.49\00:02:07.99
is spoken words were mandatory
for those who follow Jesus.
00:02:07.99\00:02:11.99
You know, I think that's a,
00:02:11.99\00:02:13.33
that's a question I ask
my church to ask itself.
00:02:13.33\00:02:16.50
I ask them one
time in the sermon.
00:02:16.50\00:02:18.13
I think the greatest question
that we have to ask ourselves
00:02:18.13\00:02:21.07
today as Christians,
as Adventist Christians,
00:02:21.07\00:02:24.24
can you be a disciple without
being a follower of Jesus.
00:02:24.24\00:02:30.28
How can you be a Christian
00:02:30.28\00:02:31.71
without being a
follower of Jesus?
00:02:31.71\00:02:34.08
And I say no, we can
believe all the things
00:02:34.08\00:02:38.42
but if we
aren't following Jesus,
00:02:38.42\00:02:40.12
if we don't take
seriously what He said
00:02:40.12\00:02:41.92
and what He taught you know,
00:02:41.92\00:02:43.39
Christian the
very route is Christ,
00:02:43.39\00:02:45.76
a follower of Christ and
so we need to take seriously,
00:02:45.76\00:02:48.46
seriously the
things that He said.
00:02:48.46\00:02:50.20
So the tradition in the positive
sense all started with Jesus.
00:02:50.20\00:02:53.44
Absolutely. His
sayings, His actions
00:02:53.44\00:02:55.90
and then it move
to a second stage
00:02:55.90\00:02:58.64
and that is the
interpretation of His sayings
00:02:58.64\00:03:01.61
and His actions by the apostles.
00:03:01.61\00:03:03.71
Paul, being one of
them, Peter being another one,
00:03:03.71\00:03:06.38
and James and so forth.
00:03:06.38\00:03:07.85
So as the apostles
interpreted the sayings of Jesus
00:03:07.85\00:03:10.85
that became
authoritative as well.
00:03:10.85\00:03:13.86
And then the third
stage is the apostles
00:03:13.86\00:03:16.69
wrote down
these interpretations.
00:03:16.69\00:03:19.36
They wrote down their traditions
that they have been passing on
00:03:19.36\00:03:22.66
and that became
our New Testament
00:03:22.66\00:03:25.40
and it's held by
followers of Jesus
00:03:25.40\00:03:27.87
in equal authority with the old.
00:03:27.87\00:03:30.84
Now when Paul has
arrived in Thessalonica,
00:03:30.84\00:03:33.21
the first two
stages are already done.
00:03:33.21\00:03:35.98
Jesus words and
actions are there on the table.
00:03:35.98\00:03:39.05
The apostles oral work is
in process those are already
00:03:39.05\00:03:42.68
working the written scripture
begins with First Thessalonians.
00:03:42.68\00:03:47.72
Paul didn't know it probably
when he was writing the letter,
00:03:47.72\00:03:50.69
but that letter
was the first piece
00:03:50.69\00:03:52.83
of New Testament scripture.
00:03:52.83\00:03:55.63
Well, well, you know,
there is one thing I like to do,
00:03:55.63\00:03:59.07
I'm gonna share this
with, with our viewing audience.
00:03:59.07\00:04:02.17
It something that a
mentor of mine did years ago
00:04:02.17\00:04:04.74
and I've never
forgotten it and he says
00:04:04.74\00:04:07.38
the Bible is like a filter,
and needs to be our filter,
00:04:07.38\00:04:11.15
all the words, the
tradition if you will of God
00:04:11.15\00:04:14.02
and what he's done,
need to be our filter
00:04:14.02\00:04:16.08
and he'd always takes
his Bible and he'd hold it up
00:04:16.08\00:04:17.89
in front of his head like this,
he'd say this is our filter
00:04:17.89\00:04:22.76
nothing should get to
our brain that doesn't go
00:04:22.76\00:04:25.29
through the word
of God, it doesn't go
00:04:25.29\00:04:27.00
through the words of
Jesus, it doesn't go through
00:04:27.00\00:04:29.46
the scriptures, its our filter
00:04:29.46\00:04:31.23
we need to process everything,
everything through it.
00:04:31.23\00:04:34.10
And you know, sometimes
the Bible is first in theory,
00:04:34.10\00:04:37.64
but we don't always
practice it that way,
00:04:37.64\00:04:40.04
you know, that's why
my own life sometimes
00:04:40.04\00:04:41.74
I sense that I want
to hear God on something,
00:04:41.74\00:04:44.55
and sometimes I sense I
get this little soft you know,
00:04:44.55\00:04:47.38
voice you know, in my
being from the spirit saying,
00:04:47.38\00:04:49.72
well, Jon if
you'll just follow through
00:04:49.72\00:04:51.45
what I have
already told you to do,
00:04:51.45\00:04:53.62
then I can share with you more,
00:04:53.62\00:04:54.79
but there's
stuff in here you know,
00:04:54.79\00:04:56.73
sometimes when I'm waiting for
God to lead me in a certain way,
00:04:56.73\00:05:00.40
I just say okay what does
He ask me to do in his word
00:05:00.40\00:05:02.83
that maybe I
haven't done yet you know,
00:05:02.83\00:05:04.20
that I need to be obedient on.
00:05:04.20\00:05:05.67
But to make that
first, I have a colleague
00:05:05.67\00:05:07.77
who told me one time
he was preaching the very
00:05:07.77\00:05:10.14
Biblical sermons and someone
really had a hard time with it.
00:05:10.14\00:05:13.14
He said, but it's in the
Bible and the person said to him
00:05:13.14\00:05:15.38
I don't care if
it's in the Bible.
00:05:15.38\00:05:17.98
Oh, my goodness, you
know, I started praying for him.
00:05:17.98\00:05:21.32
Yes. Well, one part
of the Bible is Paul,
00:05:21.32\00:05:24.49
has a big concern about
unruly, disorderly people
00:05:24.49\00:05:30.69
and that's a major
issue that he has here.
00:05:30.69\00:05:33.86
The word unruly has to do with
willfully disruptive people.
00:05:33.86\00:05:40.20
There are sometimes
people in the church
00:05:40.20\00:05:42.37
who just like to make a
scene, ever run into that?
00:05:42.37\00:05:46.34
Oh, yes, oh yes.
You know, few times
00:05:46.34\00:05:49.28
I should say and you
know, its really sad because,
00:05:49.28\00:05:51.81
because it is
disrupted to the church,
00:05:51.81\00:05:53.98
it is disrupted to
the community that God
00:05:53.98\00:05:56.08
is shaping and
forming and you know,
00:05:56.08\00:05:59.89
attitude is so
important, people come with
00:05:59.89\00:06:02.39
the wrong attitude and motives,
its painful, it can be painful
00:06:02.39\00:06:07.73
and in sometimes you know,
when people are blaming people
00:06:07.73\00:06:10.30
in the church or just
causing blame, it becomes really
00:06:10.30\00:06:14.57
toxic atmosphere if
we don't deal with it.
00:06:14.57\00:06:16.97
That's where that
tough love and accountability
00:06:16.97\00:06:19.17
has to be coming,
admonishing and you know,
00:06:19.17\00:06:23.21
sometimes you see even,
you know, in the prayer request
00:06:23.21\00:06:26.08
you know, they're
sharing as a prayer request
00:06:26.08\00:06:27.85
but its not
really prayer request,
00:06:27.85\00:06:29.18
its kind of you know,
making the statement you know,
00:06:29.18\00:06:31.35
at the same time
and that's sad to see.
00:06:31.35\00:06:34.59
But it's so
important that we keep
00:06:34.59\00:06:36.26
our focus on the Lord there.
00:06:36.26\00:06:38.46
Everybody in the church
and I love Paul's you know,
00:06:38.46\00:06:42.06
in First Corinthians
12, where he talks about
00:06:42.06\00:06:44.87
the church being like a
body and Christ is the head
00:06:44.87\00:06:47.80
and we are all
connected to the head
00:06:47.80\00:06:49.50
and He is one who
guides and directs and leads
00:06:49.50\00:06:51.94
this body and so we really,
really need to treat people
00:06:51.94\00:06:55.51
as Jesus did our master.
00:06:55.51\00:06:58.18
And as we're loved by him,
then we can also love others
00:06:58.18\00:07:01.48
the way we're experiencing
His love in our life.
00:07:01.48\00:07:04.65
For Paul here I think
in Second Thessalonians 3
00:07:04.65\00:07:07.29
the disorderly are
particularly people
00:07:07.29\00:07:09.19
who're ignoring the tradition.
00:07:09.19\00:07:10.99
If they're not
working, if they're disrupting
00:07:10.99\00:07:13.29
the church, or
they're being busybodies,
00:07:13.29\00:07:15.23
they're not
following the tradition
00:07:15.23\00:07:17.33
and in particular Paul has
a tradition in verses 9 to 12
00:07:17.33\00:07:22.67
that we want to
take a look at. He says.
00:07:22.67\00:07:25.81
It is not because
we have no authority,
00:07:25.81\00:07:28.71
but in order that we
might give you an example,
00:07:28.71\00:07:32.05
so you could imitate us.
00:07:32.05\00:07:33.38
So Paul did something
there specifically 'cause
00:07:33.38\00:07:36.69
he was worried the Thessalonians
might not get it straight.
00:07:36.69\00:07:39.99
For even when we
were with you. Verse 10.
00:07:39.99\00:07:42.29
We constantly
commanded you like this,
00:07:42.29\00:07:44.83
"If anyone does not wish to
work, neither should he eat."
00:07:44.83\00:07:49.36
For we hear that some of
you are walking in idleness
00:07:49.36\00:07:52.27
disorderly, instead of
being busy, they are busybodies.
00:07:52.27\00:07:57.41
We command and urge such
people in the Lord Jesus Christ
00:07:57.41\00:08:00.68
that working in quietness
each might eat his own bread.
00:08:00.68\00:08:06.38
So here in the Thessalonians
church as positive as the church
00:08:06.38\00:08:10.15
was there were
disorderly members and the word
00:08:10.15\00:08:14.49
has a context of willfully idle.
00:08:14.49\00:08:17.36
These are not lazy
people, these are people
00:08:17.36\00:08:19.93
who are evading
their obligations.
00:08:19.93\00:08:22.43
They're trying to
avoid having to work
00:08:22.43\00:08:25.03
and they're pretty
crafty but they work hard
00:08:25.03\00:08:27.97
at being busybodies so to speak.
00:08:27.97\00:08:30.91
And this is
against Paul's example,
00:08:30.91\00:08:34.08
but it's very much
according to the example
00:08:34.08\00:08:35.64
of the popular philosophers
that we've mentioned
00:08:35.64\00:08:37.95
from time to
time in this series.
00:08:37.95\00:08:40.32
They became philosophers because
00:08:40.32\00:08:42.42
they didn't want to
work with their hands.
00:08:42.42\00:08:44.75
And so Paul in that
time in places look everybody
00:08:44.75\00:08:47.96
is got to work with their hands
or else they're not fulfilling
00:08:47.96\00:08:52.16
the tradition that's here.
00:08:52.16\00:08:54.96
These folk were
discussing theology.
00:08:54.96\00:08:58.33
They were criticizing
the behavior of others.
00:08:58.33\00:09:00.50
They were creating a lot of stir
in the church and Paul says,
00:09:00.50\00:09:04.57
get a job, work w ith
your hands get busy, it's time.
00:09:04.57\00:09:09.41
Well, Jon, how can we
best apply Paul's words today
00:09:09.41\00:09:12.48
when hard labors done
by machines, you know,
00:09:12.48\00:09:15.72
there is not a lot
people working with their hands
00:09:15.72\00:09:17.42
'cause machines are
doing a lot of things you know,
00:09:17.42\00:09:19.82
we have service
workers, you know,
00:09:19.82\00:09:21.72
people who are
teachers, and directors
00:09:21.72\00:09:24.26
and different things
so. That's a good point,
00:09:24.26\00:09:27.00
That's a good
point, Paul says, yeah,
00:09:27.00\00:09:29.76
everybody should
work with their hands.
00:09:29.76\00:09:30.93
I think we can do
some of that you know,
00:09:30.93\00:09:32.87
like tending a
garden, we can get exercise
00:09:32.87\00:09:36.37
and do some
task, but often our job
00:09:36.37\00:09:39.81
does not require
physical exertion.
00:09:39.81\00:09:42.08
I'll tell you office
culture can be very toxic thing.
00:09:42.08\00:09:46.51
People all are
hemmed in together,
00:09:46.51\00:09:48.52
they're
criticizing each other things.
00:09:48.52\00:09:50.99
What would Paul say
to the office culture?
00:09:50.99\00:09:54.56
I think he would say the same
things that he's saying here
00:09:54.56\00:09:57.59
work in quietness,
don't be woefully disruptive.
00:09:57.59\00:10:02.10
Yeah. And so I think.
00:10:02.10\00:10:03.26
So I think his
advice you can't take it
00:10:03.26\00:10:06.43
at absolute face value because
circumstances have changed.
00:10:06.43\00:10:10.04
But even for service workers,
00:10:10.04\00:10:12.44
I think the idea of
sticking to the task.
00:10:12.44\00:10:15.34
The idea of not
spending a lot of time
00:10:15.34\00:10:18.15
in other people's business.
That's still good advice today.
00:10:18.15\00:10:21.65
Yeah. Yeah. You know,
its interesting though
00:10:21.65\00:10:24.69
because you see homeless
people sometimes on the streets
00:10:24.69\00:10:28.89
and we don't know all
what their situation is.
00:10:28.89\00:10:32.59
But I know that my
wife being a counselor,
00:10:32.59\00:10:36.97
she does see some homeless
people that the county pays
00:10:36.97\00:10:40.17
to see and, and
she tells me you know,
00:10:40.17\00:10:43.54
some of them they
want to remain homeless,
00:10:43.54\00:10:47.74
that's their way
that they can you know,
00:10:47.74\00:10:49.51
control their lives and,
and they can get enough money
00:10:49.51\00:10:51.98
to do things but you
know, what about homeless
00:10:51.98\00:10:54.78
who want to be
homeless, that's it you know.
00:10:54.78\00:10:59.69
If I could summarize
Paul, I think in today's context
00:10:59.69\00:11:03.83
as close as I can do
to to get here right,
00:11:03.83\00:11:05.99
I think he would say
mind your own business
00:11:05.99\00:11:08.43
or its take care of
your own affairs first.
00:11:08.43\00:11:12.00
Second in whatever
you do service or labor
00:11:12.00\00:11:15.80
work for the Lord,
think of Jesus as your boss.
00:11:15.80\00:11:18.67
Third, work in
quietness and always don't get
00:11:18.67\00:11:21.84
another people's
way as you moving
00:11:21.84\00:11:24.15
and in finally be a
positive influence whether
00:11:24.15\00:11:26.98
its an office or
whether its an construction
00:11:26.98\00:11:29.82
be a positive
influence wherever you go
00:11:29.82\00:11:31.85
and I think that's
were second Thessalonians 3
00:11:31.85\00:11:34.62
can meet the world
are we living today.
00:11:34.62\00:11:37.93
Good stuff. Good stuff.
00:11:37.93\00:11:39.03
Or we better move
along to verses 13 through 15
00:11:39.03\00:11:43.13
and Paul says this.
As for you, brothers,
00:11:43.13\00:11:45.73
do not become
weary in doing good.
00:11:45.73\00:11:48.00
If anyone does not obey
our word through this letter,
00:11:48.00\00:11:50.74
take notice of him.
00:11:50.74\00:11:51.84
Do not associate with him,
00:11:51.84\00:11:52.84
in order that he
might become ashamed.
00:11:52.84\00:11:55.08
And do not
regard him as an enemy,
00:11:55.08\00:11:56.78
but admonish him like a brother.
00:11:56.78\00:11:59.21
Reminds me of a text in Mathew
00:11:59.21\00:12:00.98
but we don't have
time to read right now.
00:12:00.98\00:12:03.89
But basically Jesus is
saying if you got a problem
00:12:03.89\00:12:06.69
with someone go to them
alone, if that doesn't work take
00:12:06.69\00:12:10.23
somebody else, if that doesn't
work take it to the church.
00:12:10.23\00:12:13.66
Discipline in the
church is tough because
00:12:13.66\00:12:16.53
every errant member
is somebody's brother
00:12:16.53\00:12:19.97
or best friend you know, and
what do you do, you're pastor.
00:12:19.97\00:12:27.04
You know, it can
get really messy.
00:12:27.04\00:12:30.08
But you know,
the church sometimes
00:12:30.08\00:12:32.85
isn't always the
best that handling this.
00:12:32.85\00:12:34.88
Unfortunately but
sometimes it does really well
00:12:34.88\00:12:38.22
and its important for us
to reach out to this person
00:12:38.22\00:12:42.26
in love and do everything
we can that church should be
00:12:42.26\00:12:44.53
all about redemption
and restoration and healing
00:12:44.53\00:12:48.03
relationships I mean,
that's what God does with us
00:12:48.03\00:12:50.47
and so we wanna put
every effort into that
00:12:50.47\00:12:53.67
and sometimes the offenders
aren't necessarily respectful
00:12:53.67\00:12:56.30
of the church either,
so it really has to be
00:12:56.30\00:12:57.84
a two way street
but they can be done.
00:12:57.84\00:13:01.08
That's why probably church
discipline should be handled
00:13:01.08\00:13:03.85
locally because that's
were people understand,
00:13:03.85\00:13:07.15
that's were they
care, that's way they love.
00:13:07.15\00:13:09.65
Right. So.
00:13:09.65\00:13:11.02
Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:11.02\00:13:12.65
We need to keep in
mind though that everyone
00:13:12.65\00:13:15.39
is soul for whom Christ
either, everybody, well, Jon--
00:13:15.39\00:13:19.73
Even the woefully disrupted.
That's right, absolutely.
00:13:19.73\00:13:23.03
Jon, it's been so great
to be with you in this study.
00:13:23.03\00:13:25.30
Such a honor to sit with
you and discuss this things
00:13:25.30\00:13:27.47
and thank you for so much
for letting us into your home
00:13:27.47\00:13:30.97
to be able talk about
first and second Thessalonians.
00:13:30.97\00:13:33.51
Now we wanna encourage you
to allow the spirit to direct
00:13:33.51\00:13:36.11
your heart into the love of God
and to way patiently as Jesus
00:13:36.11\00:13:40.48
and so live with
Him, be in love with Him
00:13:40.48\00:13:43.42
and be loved by
Him. God bless you.
00:13:43.42\00:13:45.02