Thinking About Home
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Welcome to "Thinking About Home"
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I'm Kathy Matthews,
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I'm so glad that you
are with us again today,
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and we are
going to be discussing
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something that I think that
you will find very beneficial.
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We're going to be discussing
Christ centered 12 step program.
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The new way to
life. Is that right?
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And our guest today is Hal
Gates the founder and director
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of Regeneration Ministries from
the Washington conference of
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Seventh-day Adventists.
and as always we have
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Richard O'Ffill with us
who stirs our pure minds
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you might say from
the Scriptures not so pure
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we are sometimes but, who stirs
our minds to thinking anyway.
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And we are into quite a
discussion about "What's the way
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to renew our minds and
what are the steps Hal?
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You want to say something first.
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May I just give
a lead into this.
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Excuse me, that's so rude of me.
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He's our guest we
should have just said go ahead.
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I'm used to it.
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Anyway, we're
learning manners on here.
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I would like to tell our viewers
that we're going to be talking
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about the 12-step program today
and Hal and I were just talking
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before the program started,
and we want to go on record
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to say how much we appreciate,
the tremendous blessing
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that the 12-step program has
been to people around the world
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for so many years. And I
know there are people who
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make it their ministry, that
they lead out in these programs,
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also others who rely on these
programs in their recovery.
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However, the reason I'm
saying this Hal is because
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the 12-step program, I think
someone has written a book,
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I don't know who wrote it,
that's criticizing it and saying
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that it's being infiltrated
with new age ideologies, and so
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I would hope that those who
would watch the program today
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wouldn't feel that we're against
AA or that we're selling AA,
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because we're
not really about AA.
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What we're talking about
is recovery from addictive
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compulsive behaviors, and
as you're going to see we're
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going to lead this into
a very spiritual emphasis.
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We wouldn't depreciate
anybody who was of good will.
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And we recognize that the
devil is trying to infiltrate
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even good things.
And so what we would
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hope as we go through
the program, that you would
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go with us, be patient with
us, don't jump to conclusions
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don't say we said
something that we didn't say,
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and if we said it
wrong, forgive us.
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Well now Hal is this something
that you've developed yourself?
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Well in my recovery, and
I've been in addictive processes
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with alcohol, with drugs,
with sex, with pornography
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over the course of 27
years. So in my recovery when I
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reached the point that I had
nothing left but God, I found
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out that God's
enough, God's all we need.
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God is sufficient.
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So in order though to
start building that new life
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I'm a new creature in Christ
Jesus. I mean if we put our
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finger in the air again
and point to ourselves "I am a
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new creature in Christ
Jesus. I'm a Child of God. "
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But now that
I'm there, now what?
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Well, the only thing I know
is what I've done in my past.
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And I was very
comfortable in my dysfunction.
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But to become
functional, is very fearful.
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I don't know how
to be functional.
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I'm very good at
being dysfunctional.
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- It's a great deal
of learning. - Yeah.
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And so what happens
is that we have to learn
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new ways to go,
new pathways that we're
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forming. The 12-steps, If
you put Jesus Christ at the
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center of them, if Jesus Christ
becomes the highest power,
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in a 12-step program, it's
the gospel. Now if you take
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Jesus out of there, then
it becomes a powerful secular
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program that has helped 50
million people on our planet,
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who were drug and
alcohol free and all.
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You know Hal, I wonder
if our viewers, I'm sure the
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majority of them have
heard of the 12-step program
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but there maybe some that
don't know exactly what you're
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referring to. I think that
this first step is going to
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give us an orientation
of what you're talking about
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when you say how to have a
Christ centered 12-step program.
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Okay, Now remember
what we're talking about,
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we're talking about taking
simple steps, one at a time,
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to reach that new creature hood
to come out of our dysfunction.
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To deal with our addictive
compulsive nature, and to put
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Jesus Christ at the center of
that so the number one step is
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to admit that my life is
out of control and unmanageable.
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To admit that I really
need something else in my life,
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that things would become
chaotic, and so the scripture
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that kind of goes
along with the first step is
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We admitted we were powerless
over our separation from God,
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and that our lives
had become unmanageable.
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Now separation from God
if we look at the definition
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of addiction, it's "Obsessive
thought, compulsive action,
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habitual repetition,
and spiritual separation".
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Now I recognized that because
of my spiritual separation,
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my obsessive thought,
my compulsive, my habitual,
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that my life is out of
control and unmanageable.
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So I admit that
I need some help.
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And the scripture that
goes along with that...
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- But then you've
got to go into action.
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After you admit,
you've got to go into action,
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but that's the second step.
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No, but I think you're already
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Christianizing the
thing. See I wanted to know what
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it was like in it's
basic... - Well, if we were in
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Alcoholics Anonymous
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what it would be was that
my life is unmanageable and
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powerless because of my
alcohol, you know because of my
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narcotic use, because of
my sex, because of whatever.
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So what happens is we put this
in the place that "I'm a child
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of God, I'm a new
creature in Christ Jesus. "
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Excuse me for interrupting
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a moment ago, if you'll
remember, let's go way back
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you know two
minutes into the program.
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That's hard for me.
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I was suggesting because
you said we could Christianize
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this 12-step program.
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I simply said "Well tell
us what it was originally".
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and I think what I was hoping
that you would say was that
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in this original 12-step
it'll say something about God
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as you understand
Him. - Oh sure, okay.
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In other words Christ
isn't in the original 12 steps
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because what you're doing
now is you're Christianizing it
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because that's what the
programs going to be about.
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- So you don't want to go
back to the very first step,
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you want to go back to the...
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Well wherever it is, it's
my understanding that when
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you go to AA or like I did
to a Alanon, there's this word
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God as you understand
him. And then so what this does
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is it allows a person to
have his own God, in other words
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if you want to have and
I heard someone who works
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in these 12-step programs
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all along just sort
of say tongue and cheek,
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well if your God is a
chair or a head of cabbage,
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that's alright. You're simply
saying only a power outside
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of myself can restore my
sanity. But in the original
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set of 12-steps it does
not say that that power is
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Jesus, it can be Buddha,
it can be Vishnu, it can be
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a head of cabbage. Now that's
what I was hoping you would
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say and I hope you
don't mind me clarifying that.
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No, I don't mind, but I'm
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not here to talk about that,
I'm here to talk about Jesus
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at the center. - And I
think that's the purpose
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of this program is
to say, how can we take
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the 12 original steps,
which could lean either way
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which could allow a new-agar
to interpret it his own way.
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And how can we put
Christ into the center of this?
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This is where I'm coming
from, forgive me for being so
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thick headed on that.
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That's ok, the bottom line
is that, one of the things that
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there are probably 50 million
people on this planet that
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are sober today, that are
drug free today, because of
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the 12-step program. And so
I'm not here to question it.
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Because when we
were muttering around as
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Christians, and not
doing anything, the AA programs
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and the NA programs were
bringing people out of the
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pit of hell. And they
were giving them something so
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That far.
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Sure, and so the
programs speak for themselves
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when we should have
as Christians, been doing
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something, they were
doing it. So now what I want to
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say is, is that we have
put Jesus Christ in the center,
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and recognized him as the
highest power, not a higher
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The Highest.
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power, the highest power.
Now that doesn't mean that
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when we have a 12 step
support group that a person that
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doesn't believe in Jesus
can't come. They're welcome,
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and we have people all
the time that profess atheism
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and whatever, they
just say help me, help me.
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Be there for me until I
can get out of this dilemma
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that I'm in. And so the bottom
line is, we're not in a 12
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step support group
system to judge one another.
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We're not to judge one
another. We are to love
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one another until the
person can love themselves.
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We'll love you till
you can love yourself.
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We've been there, we've
done that. We understand
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where you're at,
and we were all there.
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Some of us are still
in the various degrees.
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and at the
various steps in our life.
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So the first step is
that we recognize that we were
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powerless over
alcohol, drugs, sex, whatever.
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But in the Christ centered
we were powerless over our
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separation from God.
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- Okay, that's
what you put in there.
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Because of my
guilt, because of my fear
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because of my
shame, because of my blame,
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because of those
things, I just was powerless,
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my life had become unmanageable
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and out of control.
It's like what Paul said
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he says, "I know that
nothing good lives in me,
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that is in my sinful nature.
For I have desired to do what
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is good". Now see that's
that desire thing. I want to
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do what is good,
but I just can't.
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Well in and of ourselves it's
very difficult. So the support
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group that then becomes
the help for some people,
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Jesus Christ at the center,
of the support group becomes
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the most powerful of all
types of support systems because
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Jesus Christ is the highest
power and the healing power.
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You see if we would look
at the difference between
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the definition of regeneration
and rehabilitation, it gives us
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a kind of an insight
here. Regeneration is you become
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a brand new
creature in Christ Jesus.
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- Newly Generated.
- You're brand new...
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- Wouldn't that
have to do with Genesis?
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and so Christ makes
you a brand new creature.
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In Rehabilitation,
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you are brought back
to where you've started.
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You know Kathy I think that's
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an incredible
concept. - I do too.
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I had never even
thought about it before that
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rehabilitation sets
us back to where we were,
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regeneration, starts us up
all over again, and that's what
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the gospel is, the
gospel doesn't rehabilitate us,
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it regenerates us. - Absolutely.
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So if there is one comment
from this whole program that you
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want people to take away,
that would be a good one huh?
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In fact I'm going to take
it away from the program that's
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for sure. Well and it's that way
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about Christ. There's
nothing old and just rebuilt.
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Everything is renewed brand new.
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And new birth is, we're
like scripture talks about us
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being like little
babies, and that's what happens.
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In Recovery, in the
basis of regeneration, we are
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recovering as brand new
creatures in Christ Jesus.
00:12:49.70\00:12:52.89
And that's actually where
we start. But now we have to
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put a lot of stuff
into that new creature hood.
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- Right. - We
have to put boundaries
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and so the steps are
the way that we can take
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little bitty steps now
listen to the second one
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the first one is we admit
our life is out of control,
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our life is chaos, it's
out of control, we do not
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have control. We admit that,
very difficult, particularly
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for men, men have a problem
admitting that their life is
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out of control. And I'm a
man I know how that works.
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Because I was self-made and
it was very demeaning for me
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to have to realize and
recognize, and admit, I'm
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out of control. So, and
God had to let me go clear to
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the bottom, before I
recognized my life was out of
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control. I went through
marriage, and divorce, I lost
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a business, I lost a profession,
you know my life's okay,
00:13:43.72\00:13:47.11
it's just I choose to go
off and write the Great American
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Novel, which I don't
even know how to spell novel.
00:13:50.12\00:13:54.23
So what happened, my life
was totally out of control
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but I had to wake up
in a pool of my own vomit,
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in order to recognize
where I was and be so toxic
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from alcohol
poisoning that I nearly died.
00:14:05.20\00:14:08.00
I had to go through that
just to recognize. And my prayer
00:14:08.03\00:14:12.10
was God help me!
And God helped me.
00:14:12.13\00:14:15.38
And so the second step,
after I admit I'm powerless and
00:14:15.42\00:14:19.06
out of control. The second
step is, I came to believe
00:14:19.10\00:14:22.55
that Jesus, a power greater
than myself can restore me to
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sanity. And what's
sanity, people are saying,
00:14:27.92\00:14:30.39
Well I'm not insane!
I'll guarantee you if
00:14:30.42\00:14:33.18
have got any of
these character defects:
00:14:33.21\00:14:36.14
Food, Gambling,
Drugs, Cigarettes, Coffee,
00:14:36.17\00:14:39.61
Computers, Television, Hatred,
Pride, Suspicion, Domination
00:14:39.65\00:14:43.77
those kinds of things,
your life is out of control.
00:14:43.80\00:14:46.83
So you really need to have
God to restore you to sanity
00:14:46.87\00:14:52.20
so Jesus will
restore us to sanity,
00:14:52.23\00:14:54.10
that's the mind renewal,
that's how we renew our minds.
00:14:54.13\00:14:57.39
He restores the balance
emotionally and mentally
00:14:57.42\00:15:01.12
to us and so... -
According to His word it
00:15:01.16\00:15:03.24
shows us the steps to
take or the boundaries to make
00:15:03.27\00:15:07.64
in our life. -
First my life's out of
00:15:07.68\00:15:10.29
control and unmanageable,
I admit that. Now I
00:15:10.32\00:15:13.22
recognize that Jesus a
power greater than myself,
00:15:13.26\00:15:16.09
the greatest power in
heaven and earth, is going to
00:15:16.12\00:15:19.20
recreate me into a
brand new creature and so
00:15:19.23\00:15:21.60
then the third step is
to surrender my life and
00:15:21.64\00:15:25.43
my will, to God.
00:15:25.46\00:15:27.89
- Which is the
hardest thing of all.
00:15:27.92\00:15:29.26
- It is and I think a lot of
times we don't hear this word
00:15:29.30\00:15:32.93
"will" anymore, kind of like we
don't hear the word "sin" much
00:15:32.97\00:15:35.49
anymore, but to understand
the will, can you just go off on
00:15:35.53\00:15:39.53
that for just a second?
Not understanding the will but
00:15:39.56\00:15:42.27
maybe defining what it
is. Just something concise.
00:15:42.31\00:15:44.51
- Well let me say
that will power is my will
00:15:44.54\00:15:47.86
and God's power, - Ok..
00:15:47.90\00:15:49.28
and as long as I keep that,
- Would that be my choice and
00:15:49.33\00:15:51.58
God's power? - Yes
my choice, my will.
00:15:51.61\00:15:53.97
See God has given us the power
of choices, free moral agents,
00:15:54.01\00:15:57.56
I have choices, and even not to
make a choice is making a choice
00:15:57.59\00:16:02.34
And so my will is that, I
would will that I surrender this
00:16:02.80\00:16:11.77
to God, because what
I have done with my will
00:16:11.80\00:16:14.57
is that I have
just messed it up.
00:16:14.61\00:16:16.56
I have willed dysfunction,
alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling,
00:16:16.60\00:16:21.07
pornography all of this
stuff, that was my will,
00:16:21.11\00:16:24.29
that was my choice, my desire,
because my carnal nature had
00:16:24.33\00:16:28.00
taken over my spiritual nature.
00:16:28.03\00:16:30.12
Now, I'm going to
surrender my will to God...
00:16:30.16\00:16:33.86
- Okay, that was number three.
- because He's going to restore
00:16:33.90\00:16:35.57
me to sanity. - Right.
00:16:35.60\00:16:37.01
He's going to make me this brand
new creature in Christ Jesus.
00:16:37.25\00:16:39.44
- So I give you my will.
- And I'm going to turn it
00:16:39.47\00:16:42.12
over to God, because
what I have done with it
00:16:42.15\00:16:44.47
is just made a mess.
00:16:44.50\00:16:46.84
And I don't ask God
to give me His power,
00:16:48.07\00:16:51.84
I ask God to be my
power. - Now that's interesting.
00:16:51.87\00:16:57.14
Because if He gave me His power
you know what would happen?
00:16:57.17\00:16:59.84
I'd probably go down and gamble
it away on a card game or...
00:16:59.88\00:17:03.10
or into
pornography or something.
00:17:03.13\00:17:05.82
You see, so I want to
surrender my life and my will
00:17:05.86\00:17:10.42
to the care of God.
00:17:10.45\00:17:12.40
Live out thy life
within me Jesus King of kings.
00:17:13.34\00:17:16.38
Is that also resting in Christ?
00:17:16.42\00:17:18.85
In step two, where I came
to believe that Jesus, a power
00:17:20.58\00:17:23.98
greater than myself
could restore me to sanity,
00:17:24.02\00:17:26.25
the scripture is, "It is
God who works in you to will and
00:17:26.29\00:17:30.83
to act according
to His good purpose".
00:17:30.86\00:17:33.35
God does it.
00:17:33.38\00:17:34.81
See we go around tramping,
trying to do what God does.
00:17:34.85\00:17:39.89
We play God, we become selfish,
00:17:39.93\00:17:41.95
we become
rebellious and stubborn.
00:17:41.99\00:17:44.42
I can do it myself.
00:17:44.46\00:17:45.60
And that lead me
to the point of death.
00:17:45.63\00:17:49.04
But for the grace of
God, I was dead and so when I
00:17:50.08\00:17:53.98
turned it over to
God then He's given me
00:17:54.01\00:17:56.16
this new life experience. Now...
00:17:56.20\00:17:57.73
In the area of, I think a word
they use is "white-knuckling".
00:17:57.84\00:18:01.09
- Absolutely, oh boy. -
I can do it, I can do it.
00:18:01.13\00:18:03.86
Then the other one to "white-
knuckling" is "pink cloud".
00:18:05.50\00:18:08.15
Boy, I've done it.
00:18:08.18\00:18:09.76
Oh I'm sober now. - I
don't need that anymore.
00:18:09.79\00:18:13.90
Hey I'm okay.
00:18:13.94\00:18:15.24
Lest we get off into a
misunderstanding though about
00:18:15.27\00:18:18.87
how difficult a choice may be.
00:18:21.50\00:18:23.74
which is not necessarily
the same as I can do it.
00:18:25.08\00:18:28.03
Is that true?
00:18:28.07\00:18:29.06
Well, it's true.
00:18:29.10\00:18:30.07
A lot of times what we think is,
00:18:30.14\00:18:32.72
is choices are all
these great big things.
00:18:32.76\00:18:34.61
What choices are
are little bitty things.
00:18:34.65\00:18:37.07
But sometimes it's a
grit to make a choice.
00:18:37.10\00:18:40.82
Absolutely, that's why
attitude is so important.
00:18:40.86\00:18:44.53
I think we don't want
to miss understand this.
00:18:44.56\00:18:46.33
I choose my attitude.
00:18:46.37\00:18:47.68
I choose to turn my life and
my will over to the care of God.
00:18:47.72\00:18:51.56
I choose to admit
that I am powerless.
00:18:51.59\00:18:53.82
I choose to recognize that
Jesus can restore me to sanity.
00:18:53.86\00:18:58.89
Those are all choices.
- But in those choices,
00:18:58.92\00:19:00.71
is that like the plucking out
an eye and cutting off a hand?
00:19:00.74\00:19:03.49
This choice sometimes can be...
- You know he said a moment ago
00:19:03.52\00:19:08.17
something about
laying in his own vomit
00:19:08.20\00:19:09.81
and I know another expression
that's used in this particular
00:19:09.84\00:19:14.75
context, is "hit bottom".
00:19:14.78\00:19:16.51
When we go back to
this choice matter.
00:19:17.85\00:19:19.74
It seems to me that
in this whole addictions,
00:19:19.78\00:19:23.04
obsessive compulsive behaviors,
that we're just going to
00:19:23.07\00:19:25.38
keep doing it.
00:19:25.42\00:19:26.39
No matter if our
wives tell us to stop,
00:19:26.40\00:19:28.37
if the pastor tells us to stop,
if we read we ought to stop,
00:19:28.41\00:19:31.28
we're not going to stop until
we lay in the vomit of our lives
00:19:31.31\00:19:35.03
and say, do I want more of this?
00:19:35.06\00:19:36.52
This is hitting bottom.
00:19:36.72\00:19:37.84
How about if our
addictive compulsive nature
00:19:37.87\00:19:41.45
is worry, or pride, or
religiosity, or stubbornness,
00:19:41.49\00:19:47.83
or rebellion, or any of these
kinds of things which we never
00:19:47.87\00:19:50.66
as Christians think of as being
an addictive process and yet
00:19:50.69\00:19:53.87
if it is number one,
obsessive number two, compulsive
00:19:53.90\00:19:58.15
number three habitually repeated
and spiritual separation and
00:19:58.18\00:20:03.81
a lot of times we wonder,
00:20:03.84\00:20:05.01
why is my spiritual
life so meaningless?
00:20:05.04\00:20:08.99
Why don't I have the Holy Spirit
running and pouring out of me?
00:20:09.03\00:20:14.39
Very often it's because we
have not processed through and
00:20:14.42\00:20:17.30
surrendered this garbage to God.
00:20:17.34\00:20:19.24
Right, okay.
00:20:19.28\00:20:20.73
Now, how do we know
what to surrender to God?
00:20:20.77\00:20:23.64
- Is that number
four? - Step four!
00:20:23.68\00:20:25.87
Step four is to take a
fearless moral inventory.
00:20:26.51\00:20:30.88
Now, this isn't just a go
down through here and pick out
00:20:31.38\00:20:34.61
our list of gossip and gambling
and sugar and sex and work
00:20:34.64\00:20:38.14
and religion and
television and computer.
00:20:38.17\00:20:40.19
It's also to go through and
inventory what are some of our
00:20:40.28\00:20:43.16
strong characteristics.
00:20:43.20\00:20:44.57
Because we can get onto
a negative connotation and
00:20:44.93\00:20:49.54
we get overwhelmed by it.
00:20:49.57\00:20:51.19
If you're like me, I've
got all but four things on this
00:20:51.22\00:20:54.12
thirty-five thing list.
00:20:56.05\00:20:59.14
So, what we want to
do is we also want to
00:20:59.67\00:21:02.34
have some positive
stuff in our inventory
00:21:02.38\00:21:05.88
but our inventory is
those things that we need to
00:21:05.91\00:21:08.33
surrender to God. As a
Christian what would I say?
00:21:08.37\00:21:10.65
I'm tense, I'm
irresponsible, I'm complacent,
00:21:10.69\00:21:12.86
I have hatred, I
have pride, I have vanity,
00:21:12.90\00:21:15.04
I have procrastination,
I'm self-centered.
00:21:15.07\00:21:17.09
- I thought that the
12 steps were only for
00:21:17.58\00:21:19.63
drug addicts, and alcoholics.
00:21:19.66\00:21:21.49
Jesus Christ, is
for everybody. - Amen!
00:21:22.03\00:21:26.22
Jesus Christ will make
us a brand new creature
00:21:26.26\00:21:29.43
no matter where we've
been I go to churches all the
00:21:29.46\00:21:31.31
time where I ask
people, how many people are
00:21:31.35\00:21:34.13
here in recovery, - Oh yes.
00:21:34.17\00:21:35.34
Six people raise their
hands. And then I say, from sin,
00:21:35.37\00:21:38.49
and then everybody
raises, and then I say,
00:21:38.52\00:21:40.39
what's the difference? - Yeah.
00:21:40.42\00:21:41.86
See we've got to come
to grips with the idea that
00:21:41.92\00:21:44.37
our churches, in order
for them to be filled with
00:21:44.44\00:21:46.99
souls for Jesus, have
to be safe places to come!
00:21:47.09\00:21:50.79
If we are into our dysfunction
our churches are not safe.
00:21:51.99\00:21:57.89
You know the expression
that the church is not a
00:21:57.92\00:22:00.95
rest home for saints,
but a hospital for sinners.
00:22:01.55\00:22:03.69
- You bet. - I used to kind of
00:22:03.72\00:22:04.99
philosophically have trouble
with that because I thought
00:22:05.02\00:22:07.05
that meant if you
want to sin, go to church.
00:22:07.08\00:22:09.60
And then I realized that
the key word was hospital,
00:22:09.67\00:22:12.81
and that I go to
the hospital to get well
00:22:13.03\00:22:16.11
and I think what you just said
is so wonderful so thrilling
00:22:16.14\00:22:20.04
that the church is a place
where sinners go to get well.
00:22:20.07\00:22:23.04
Through Jesus Christ.
00:22:23.07\00:22:24.75
But they have to be safe places,
00:22:24.80\00:22:26.50
Dick and Kathy, the church
cannot be so dysfunctional
00:22:26.59\00:22:31.10
because God is not going
to bring a church full of
00:22:31.16\00:22:35.67
dysfunctional people into a
church full of dysfunctional
00:22:35.70\00:22:38.75
people. Because God
wants healing, God wants His
00:22:38.78\00:22:42.25
churches to be a place where
Jesus Christ is lifted up as
00:22:42.29\00:22:45.23
the highest power, and
Jesus can make us new creatures
00:22:45.26\00:22:48.45
in Christ Jesus. -
See this makes me think
00:22:48.48\00:22:51.04
and going back to the
hospital illustration again,
00:22:51.08\00:22:54.77
if you're sick, and
you like being sick, don't
00:22:54.81\00:22:57.39
go to the hospital, and so
what I'm hearing you say is
00:22:57.42\00:23:00.10
that if you're
into dysfunction, if
00:23:00.14\00:23:01.27
dysfunction is your
thing, then don't go to Jesus.
00:23:01.31\00:23:03.86
Jesus is not for dysfunctional
people, who like it that way.
00:23:03.90\00:23:07.61
- He's ready to restore
you - He is for regeneration.
00:23:07.64\00:23:10.67
Now this means then,
that we can find a church,
00:23:10.71\00:23:13.26
dysfunctional people, but
it will be dysfunctional people
00:23:13.30\00:23:15.70
who want out. Who want
to be regenerated and who
00:23:15.73\00:23:19.85
are in the process
of being regenerated.
00:23:19.89\00:23:21.21
Who recognized that
they were recovering?
00:23:21.25\00:23:23.12
Remember that recovery and
regeneration is not exclusive,
00:23:23.24\00:23:28.86
Sometimes, people do not know
that they need Jesus Christ.
00:23:28.89\00:23:34.29
They may love to be in their
dysfunction, and have to learn
00:23:34.33\00:23:37.61
about Jesus. How
does that take place?
00:23:37.64\00:23:40.46
That takes place because
they go to a support group
00:23:40.50\00:23:43.34
that's Christ
centered, and all of a sudden
00:23:43.37\00:23:45.60
they see that wow, in the
serenity Bible, I see step
00:23:45.63\00:23:50.12
number one, step number
two, step number three, and then
00:23:50.15\00:23:54.72
I see these red words beside
them, that are the words of
00:23:54.75\00:23:57.62
Jesus, "He who is not
with me is against me. "
00:23:57.65\00:24:01.19
Here's like step four here,
and over here we have step four,
00:24:01.22\00:24:05.54
So what people will see,
they don't even know they need
00:24:05.57\00:24:09.81
Jesus Christ. And so we
don't want to make it exclusive,
00:24:09.84\00:24:13.62
that "If you want to stay
in your addictions," which I
00:24:13.66\00:24:15.98
understand what you're saying
Dick, but I want us to also
00:24:16.02\00:24:18.70
understand that sometimes
people don't have a clue that
00:24:18.74\00:24:20.99
they need Jesus Christ.
All they know is that they
00:24:21.02\00:24:23.51
need to get out of their chaos.
- I'm going to come back with
00:24:23.54\00:24:28.11
something, but there are
spiritual hypochondriacs.
00:24:28.15\00:24:31.19
Absolutely.
Churches are full of them.
00:24:31.22\00:24:33.28
The people they just like
it that way, when you talk
00:24:33.31\00:24:35.96
about being renewed and
healed, they would say no I
00:24:35.99\00:24:39.92
prefer this. - But
these are people usually
00:24:39.95\00:24:42.77
Dick, that are in the church
and not outside the church
00:24:42.80\00:24:46.46
wanting to get
in. - Interesting.
00:24:46.50\00:24:48.41
Most of them are in the
church. Don't tell me it's
00:24:48.44\00:24:51.12
them in us. It's not us.
00:24:51.15\00:24:53.68
Yea we need to move
on to the next part,
00:24:53.72\00:24:56.02
- Okay, step number four
is a fearless moral inventory.
00:24:56.09\00:24:59.03
Now we're taking an
inventory of these things
00:24:59.07\00:25:01.57
in our lives that we
want to surrender to God,
00:25:01.60\00:25:04.77
so then step number five
is that we admitted to God,
00:25:04.81\00:25:09.40
to ourselves, and to
another person, the exact nature
00:25:09.68\00:25:13.79
of our wrongs. It's like
what Paul tells us, many people
00:25:13.83\00:25:16.86
say, oh that's Popery!
00:25:16.89\00:25:18.71
Well that's not Popery, that's
"There fore confess your sins
00:25:18.74\00:25:21.71
to each other and pray for each
other, that you may be healed".
00:25:21.74\00:25:25.47
We're talking about what
the confession is as going
00:25:25.71\00:25:29.32
into a group and
saying, and that doesn't mean
00:25:29.36\00:25:31.55
go in and confess every
deepest, darkest, sinful thing,
00:25:31.58\00:25:34.68
that means that we've
got some problems and we
00:25:34.72\00:25:37.58
need some help to get to us.
Okay, step number five then is
00:25:37.62\00:25:42.61
to admit to God, then step
number six is become entirely
00:25:42.64\00:25:46.42
ready to have God
remove these defects. Okay?
00:25:46.45\00:25:50.52
These are going to
have to stop being steps and
00:25:50.55\00:25:52.42
start being running.
00:25:52.47\00:25:53.44
These are going
to be running steps.
00:25:54.02\00:25:55.38
Step seven humbly ask
God to remove all of these
00:25:55.95\00:26:00.49
shortcomings. All of
these character defects.
00:26:00.53\00:26:03.38
This list of 35
things. Then step number eight,
00:26:03.42\00:26:07.87
made a list of persons,
that we have hurt or harmed,
00:26:07.90\00:26:10.78
and become willing
to make amends to them.
00:26:10.81\00:26:13.51
Step number nine, is to
make direct amends whenever
00:26:13.55\00:26:16.66
possible except to injure
them or yourself, your recovery.
00:26:16.69\00:26:20.60
Step number ten is
continue to take our personal
00:26:20.63\00:26:23.98
inventory and when we're
wrong, promptly admit it.
00:26:24.01\00:26:26.58
Step eleven is through prayer
and meditation find out our
00:26:26.61\00:26:29.98
conscious contact with
God. Step twelve, is to take
00:26:30.01\00:26:33.65
this to other people, comfort
as you've been comforted.
00:26:33.68\00:26:37.56
Do you know what I've noticed?
00:26:37.59\00:26:39.48
I think these 12 steps have
a lot to do with the chapters
00:26:39.51\00:26:42.91
of the little book Steps
to Christ, by Ellen G. White.
00:26:42.94\00:26:44.60
- Doesn't it?
They're exactly parallel.
00:26:44.70\00:26:45.82
And if you really want to
know more about the 12 steps
00:26:45.89\00:26:48.00
take that little book
and read it because it's a
00:26:48.04\00:26:51.42
Christ centered application
of how we go from here to there,
00:26:51.45\00:26:57.07
in the process of life. -
We've had the 12 steps in our
00:26:57.11\00:27:01.17
books for a 130 years. We've
just denied it's existence,
00:27:01.20\00:27:06.69
and haven't used it.
God called the rocks out.
00:27:06.73\00:27:09.62
Yes, well, but you're
here now, and we're so
00:27:09.66\00:27:14.02
thankful that we've
gone through this with you
00:27:14.08\00:27:15.77
and I thank you so much for
making the trip here to 3ABN,
00:27:15.80\00:27:19.16
and coming to the
call, the Macedonian call.
00:27:19.19\00:27:22.33
Now I want to invite our
guests to have prayer with us
00:27:22.37\00:27:27.75
we'll actually invite
Dick to have prayer with us
00:27:27.78\00:27:29.57
and I want you to
pray with us as you go out,
00:27:29.61\00:27:32.29
Dick will you do that? -
Sure, Heavenly Father we're
00:27:32.33\00:27:34.90
thankful that you take us where
you find us and you walk us,
00:27:34.94\00:27:39.42
you're walking us
out, you've promised
00:27:39.46\00:27:42.32
through Jesus that you've
begun the good work in us,
00:27:42.35\00:27:45.72
we'll finish it, and
Father along the way we look
00:27:45.76\00:27:49.09
forward to that finished
work, we look forward to the
00:27:49.12\00:27:51.51
coming of Jesus when
all things will be made new
00:27:51.54\00:27:54.86
and you'll wipe away
all the tears from our eyes.
00:27:54.89\00:27:58.06
There will be
no more suffering..
00:27:58.09\00:28:00.38