Hello again I'm Kathy Matthews,
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your host for
Thinking About Home and
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I'm so glad that
you've joined us again.
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Our guest today
is Pastor Leroy Moore
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from Alberta, Canada
and we have been doing
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a little series with you,
I'm I right. That's right.
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And we are gonna be
using this chart here
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in this program quite a
little bit and also Pastor
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Richard O'Ffill from
Conference in Florida,
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the Florida Conference
of Seventh-Day Adventist.
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And by the way, when
you refer that chart I must,
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you know, remind you
that I pose for that.
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Oh! Yeah alright this
is a picture of Dix Bryan
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I think. No really it's not,
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but he likes to
make fun about it.
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Actually today we are
going to be talking a great
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deal about God's
gift of choice to us.
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Yeah, right. Aren't we?
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And in the home and
with our children with our
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families there is
this developing choice
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isn't there? I
think, developing the will.
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In other programs, I
think we brought out that when
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God's starts a little
baby that part is undeveloped,
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underdeveloped it was
now what she was trying
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to say about it
Pastor. Right which part,
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which part is underdeveloped.
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We are talking
about the higher centers,
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the parts that
has do with the reason
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and the judgment and the will.
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Yes, right this part, yes,
yes, and while we got other
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natural things that
are functioning the things
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that we say animal
nature and we are not talking
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about something
that's wrong. Right.
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We are saying that the
part that connects a child
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with God when the child is born
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hasn't been developed yet, yes.
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Yeah, we are
talking about the autonomic
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nervous system, as
supposed to, which is
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fully operative when
the child is born. Yes.
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And indeed when I say
fully operative it goes into
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action actually before
the child is born. Right.
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And so when the child
is born he has a desire
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to eat and so he is
eager to eat and so forth.
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Those things
without thinking about.
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Yeah, but that's all
has to do with what we call
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the lower or
animal nature and because
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that's the way God created us.
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And it can
rightly be called that.
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God created us in such
a way that we could relate
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to the animal world
because we are animals
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and we have animal
instincts limited instincts
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not like the birds that
have such keen instincts.
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Right. So they can
fly thousands of miles
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and so forth, but
we do have instincts
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that are a great
blessing to life.
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God intended that they
be a part of our experience,
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but he also made us in
his own image. Amen to that.
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And with the higher
center the cerebral cortex,
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where you
exercise, reason, judgment,
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and the exercise of will.
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It's the exercise of
judgment in relation to region
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that involves that we
call the conscious. Yes.
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And all, the God
planned all of this
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to be under his own
personal direction. Yes.
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The Holy Spirit, he
would give his word by this
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instructions, it didn't
have to be written down,
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but his instructions,
his word would guide us
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and in that God
intended and powered us through
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the will to
control the lower nature,
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which has to do with
the secretion of hormones
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and other things that
went in balance are wonderful
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thing, when they
get out of balance,
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and particular
when we respond to them
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instead of to God's
word can create havoc. Yes.
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And end result in, an immediate
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trauma and eventual death.
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So this part
has to be developed.
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This is the part
that has to be developed,
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but when the child is
born he operates on this level.
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The parents in turn
have already developed
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cerebral cortex
and they are designed,
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and by the way
God never intended
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for little children
to bear children. Yes.
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That's a point we can talk
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about that for a little while.
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He intends for parents
to be parents. Yes right.
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And, if they are
under his authority. Yes.
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Then the
exercise of their reason
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and their
judgment governs the child
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as his own higher
faculties will do later.
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He wants to
transfer over to him.
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Excuse me in another programs,
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I think that one of the
points that we brought out
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and I think it's
essential to remind us of this
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is that the child
doesn't connect with God.
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It's the parent the
child connects with the parent.
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Right. The parent connects
with God and so in those
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early years, we can say
that the parent is standing
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in the place of
God for the child. Yes.
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But of course the purpose
then of the parent raising
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the child is to
establish them this relationship
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of the child directly with God.
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In other words, becoming
less dependent on the parent
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and then totally
dependent on God.
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And I think here is
where in our program today
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you are going to
illustrate how that happens.
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Yes, of course. And just
to mention a further word
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of that is that
parents must be willing to act
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in the place of
God for the infant
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and then as the child grows
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they must give
him little choices.
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To begin with
very small choices,
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choices regarding
clothing, you know,
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choices regarding
little things. Within limits.
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That he is capable
of making choices about.
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Right, right. So that
this will exercise his higher
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faculties, but the most
important thing is authority.
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Yes. The parent must
establish the authority of God
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by establishing
their own authority because
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they stand in the
place of God. Right.
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And the child who
learns to respond fully
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to the authority of the
parent, while the parent
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is teaching him and
focusing his attention to God
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the Holy Spirit even
on the very small child
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will begin impressing his
mind, he may not be capable
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of the kind of choice
that he will later on. Right.
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But his mind will be
exercised by the Holy Spirit
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because the Holy
Spirit not only works upon the
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parent's cerebral
cortex, but upon the child's.
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Well it's not
forcing itself on us. No, no.
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I am hearing you saying
that, that in the creation
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order of things
that it's our will
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that makes us distinctly human.
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And that's right and
what we have here is reason
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and judgment, but
if it were not for will
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then we would be automations
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even if we couldn't
think for ourselves,
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we couldn't act for
ourselves, we will be slaves.
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And this is where
today's program is going to go
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and that has to do with
God's supreme love for man,
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so great that he was
willing to take the risk
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of giving a human
being the privilege
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of rebelling against him. Yes.
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Now, but without
that the privilege
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or willing against
him without the freedom,
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the actual freedom,
true freedom to rebel
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he cannot have
the freedom to laugh.
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Of course, because you
know, he is, he is, Kathy
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he is saying that in a
way that kind of shakes you,
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the freedom to rebel,
you see, before the rebellion
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came, we didn't
know what this was.
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What that was, yes. This
freedom was not a freedom
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to rebel, it was
a freedom to love,
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it was a freedom
to serve with joy.
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We didn't even
know what this flip was
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and have you ever heard
of Murphy's Law. Oh! Yes.
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Then I think that
what's you are talking about,
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you are talking about
that in that freedom to love
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was if anything can
happen and it will happen.
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And it did
happen. In other words,
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the unthinkable,
the unthinkable happen.
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But you see the power of choice
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is the power to move either way,
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and the power to
love necessitates
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the power to
hate. What do you mean?
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That's means that the
child must be free or man,
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must be free to
choose to respond
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to God's love or
to resist it. Yes.
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Because we cannot resist
it then he has no function
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and there is no
development of love
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because it is the choice
to love. You see, alright.
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First of all God's love
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is the principle of
self sacrifice. Alright.
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Now let's think about
the trees of the garden.
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God's love involves
the central principles
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of self sacrifice.
God went to the cross
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to exhibit his
love, his sacrifice,
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establishes some idea
of what love really is.
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Well go back to
those trees. Yes.
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And the trees will
give you the choice,
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here, here is God's two trees
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both in the
middle of the garden.
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When I first realized
that the tree of knowledge
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was very close
apparently to the tree to life,
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of life yes, how
close we don't know,
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but both were in
the midst to the garden.
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It's a kind
sorbet to me and I wonder
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why would God do that.
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And the reason why the
God wanted man to develop
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a love
relationship with himself,
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but love is self
sacrifice, self-renouncing.
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Man must learn to
honor God and follow him
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because he loves him
not because he has to,
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but when there is no choice.
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There is no development of
that self sacrificing love.
00:10:18.95\00:10:23.11
Right. Could I say
this Kathy because this just
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begins to ringing in my
head, it's blowing our minds,
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wrestling, thinking
of these great thoughts
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that a child's
dependence on its parent
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is not love based. Right,
well see I am sitting here
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wrestling with
similar things like how okay.
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How can I make
this really more clear
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for a parent who is
dealing with the child.
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You already gets,
it gets very etherial.
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In another words
Kathy what I'm saying is
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when that child is
crying holding on the momma.
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It might be for selfish reasons,
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it's for, it's to survive,
it's to take care of me,
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and it's to protect me,
but it's only later when that
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will begins to function
that you are talking about.
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That the child begins
to understand what love is.
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In other words, just
because momma is feeding me
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and putting me to bed. Right.
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And protecting
me. Even when a child
00:11:13.64\00:11:14.99
can first say I love
you, it's not because they;
00:11:15.19\00:11:17.37
there is really no love.
00:11:17.56\00:11:19.76
The point that
it will be later on.
00:11:19.96\00:11:21.06
The child is echoing the parents
00:11:21.27\00:11:22.82
love in that extent it's good.
00:11:23.03\00:11:26.12
But he doesn't
have any comprehension
00:11:26.33\00:11:29.13
of what it is he
is talking about love.
00:11:29.34\00:11:31.14
And he doesn't
know yet by experience
00:11:31.36\00:11:34.08
what it is to
restrain or to renew itself
00:11:34.28\00:11:37.98
or to sacrifice self
for the good of others.
00:11:38.17\00:11:41.19
Can you hold that
thought just a minute because
00:11:41.39\00:11:42.75
I've got some and
popped into my mind.
00:11:42.96\00:11:44.25
You know some
people are wondering
00:11:44.46\00:11:45.43
whether they
want to go to heaven
00:11:45.62\00:11:46.59
because they've heard that
00:11:46.80\00:11:47.96
we won't leave
there as husband and wife.
00:11:48.17\00:11:49.64
You know where I am
coming from. Yes, yes.
00:11:49.85\00:11:51.58
And so you know one
man said to me one time
00:11:51.79\00:11:53.58
Pastor Moore he said
you know if we can't live
00:11:53.77\00:11:57.39
together as husband and
wife when we go to heaven,
00:11:57.58\00:11:58.97
I don't want to go.
And I thought to myself
00:11:59.17\00:12:00.90
isn't this incredible. Yes.
00:12:01.12\00:12:02.46
Isn't this
incredible that he would think
00:12:02.66\00:12:04.53
that the epitome
of love has to do
00:12:04.73\00:12:07.73
with the intimate
relationships and I thought
00:12:07.93\00:12:09.47
and I thought to
myself true love, true love,
00:12:09.66\00:12:12.19
take away the hormones. Yes.
00:12:12.40\00:12:13.91
True love take away the fear,
00:12:14.11\00:12:15.32
take away the
dependency, where hey man
00:12:15.52\00:12:17.29
I better you know my daddy
00:12:17.49\00:12:18.94
doesn't protect
me I am in a bad way.
00:12:19.13\00:12:20.83
You strip all of these negative,
00:12:21.04\00:12:23.04
call them negative things
away and what you are left
00:12:23.24\00:12:25.76
with is a love that we could
00:12:25.97\00:12:28.18
never imagine in our life.
00:12:28.38\00:12:29.70
You know, I think
that the relationship
00:12:29.91\00:12:31.73
with the heavenly
beings have to each other
00:12:31.93\00:12:33.45
is the height of
love and a depth of love
00:12:33.65\00:12:36.85
and with love that we
haven't even began to taste.
00:12:37.04\00:12:39.59
We know, we know.
Because, we have these
00:12:39.81\00:12:41.16
frailties all mixed in. Yes.
00:12:41.37\00:12:43.76
You know if you don't mind.
00:12:43.97\00:12:45.50
I would like to move
back to the scripture.
00:12:45.70\00:12:48.09
I don't mind you
don't have to ask me.
00:12:48.30\00:12:49.54
Because you're,
you are actually moving
00:12:49.75\00:12:50.83
a little ahead. No,
no, then I take it back,
00:12:51.02\00:12:52.71
I will take it all back.
00:12:52.93\00:12:55.00
That's great, it's
great but this is interesting
00:12:55.20\00:12:58.06
because truth is
centered in God's word. Right.
00:12:58.28\00:13:03.38
And when we study that
same word the mind begins
00:13:03.60\00:13:07.84
to think similar
thoughts. Oh! Absolutely.
00:13:08.05\00:13:10.07
And but I would like to
put this back into scriptures.
00:13:10.29\00:13:13.29
Scriptures, okay
alright. Yeah, in the scripture
00:13:13.48\00:13:15.06
it is the picture
of God having explained
00:13:15.28\00:13:18.86
to man if there are two trees.
00:13:19.06\00:13:20.87
First of all, he
tells him everything else
00:13:21.09\00:13:23.74
as if he need all of
it. But there is one tree
00:13:23.95\00:13:26.31
I want you to eat it regularly.
00:13:26.52\00:13:27.99
That tree is a
special tree it's called
00:13:28.21\00:13:30.75
the tree of life
because it is the tree which
00:13:30.97\00:13:34.10
symbolizes how you
depend upon me for life.
00:13:34.31\00:13:38.41
Right and they understood
that at the time. Yes.
00:13:38.62\00:13:41.37
They understood it then.
00:13:41.58\00:13:42.55
And so it was the
tree of dependence. Okay.
00:13:42.73\00:13:46.51
It was a tree of receiving
life continually from God.
00:13:46.74\00:13:52.14
But God says now
there is another tree
00:13:52.38\00:13:54.34
that tree is a
symbol of independence,
00:13:54.55\00:13:58.20
that tree is a
symbol of rebellion
00:13:58.41\00:14:03.65
against the principles of love.
00:14:03.86\00:14:06.43
Resisting. By choosing
to deny yourself this one
00:14:06.65\00:14:09.74
little thing and to deny
yourself even the freedom
00:14:09.96\00:14:13.81
of following an inquisitive
curiosity by doing that
00:14:14.02\00:14:21.71
you will be
developing the ability
00:14:21.93\00:14:26.41
to love more intensely.
00:14:26.62\00:14:29.29
So how does that
relate to our children,
00:14:29.49\00:14:31.54
when we help them to
learn delayed gratification?
00:14:31.74\00:14:34.39
Well that's a good point,
the restrictions by the way
00:14:34.61\00:14:39.87
would eventually have
been removed, wouldn't it?
00:14:40.07\00:14:41.95
And with children, if
they learn how to restrain
00:14:42.16\00:14:46.96
themselves for
timely discover that,
00:14:47.16\00:14:49.51
that is the path to
much greater meaning,
00:14:49.72\00:14:52.43
and much greater happiness,
00:14:52.66\00:14:54.12
but I want to get
back to the choice?
00:14:54.33\00:14:56.24
Do you think that, of course,
00:14:56.46\00:14:57.92
it's a matter of conjecture?
00:14:58.12\00:14:59.78
You know, you are
suggesting that restriction
00:15:00.00\00:15:02.05
would have been
removed I see, I'm, I'm,
00:15:02.25\00:15:04.46
I've wondered
that without Lucifer
00:15:04.65\00:15:08.30
the tree is a
necessary part of choice.
00:15:08.52\00:15:11.82
In other words, it was.
Whether he was there or not.
00:15:12.03\00:15:14.58
Whether he was there
or not because I think
00:15:14.77\00:15:16.19
that you have just
stated this as soon as God said
00:15:16.39\00:15:18.70
you can eat of all the
trees but don't eat that one.
00:15:18.90\00:15:21.02
Then you had a choice
whether you are gonna recognize
00:15:21.24\00:15:23.73
the authority of God
or not, and you know,
00:15:23.93\00:15:26.16
I had heard
Kathy a long time ago
00:15:26.35\00:15:27.75
that when Eve
walk up to that tree
00:15:27.97\00:15:30.34
and that serpent said you know,
00:15:30.56\00:15:33.48
whereas God said you
shouldn't eat of this.
00:15:33.68\00:15:35.06
This wasn't
about eating an apple;
00:15:35.28\00:15:36.73
this was about being
free of the constraints.
00:15:36.94\00:15:39.65
In other words, the
message was, are you tried
00:15:39.85\00:15:42.81
of God telling
you what to do. Yes.
00:15:43.02\00:15:44.50
You would like to
make up your own mind
00:15:44.72\00:15:45.97
and decide how you
are gonna live your life
00:15:46.17\00:15:47.58
then this is, this
is where it starts.
00:15:47.79\00:15:49.51
And this is what
I'm hearing you say,
00:15:49.72\00:15:51.20
that there was
something that was
00:15:51.42\00:15:54.29
not in the
nutrition of that tree.
00:15:54.49\00:15:56.60
Not at all, but when Eve
said, when the serpent said,
00:15:56.82\00:16:00.09
hey you take a bite of
this and you are a free woman
00:16:00.30\00:16:02.52
you can do what you want.
00:16:02.72\00:16:03.99
Indeed, indeed you
will be like God himself,
00:16:04.22\00:16:08.13
because you get to
decide what the goals are.
00:16:08.35\00:16:10.63
And you have the independence,
00:16:10.84\00:16:11.81
but you'll also have
wisdom. See, it was a tree,
00:16:11.82\00:16:14.13
she said it was
pleasant to the eye.
00:16:14.34\00:16:17.53
A good for food,
but more important was
00:16:17.74\00:16:20.80
a desire to make one wise.
00:16:20.99\00:16:22.51
That's right and what
you are exactly right,
00:16:22.72\00:16:25.38
but coming back to the, choice,
00:16:25.61\00:16:27.77
question of the
tree of knowledge.
00:16:27.99\00:16:30.63
What was it symbolized.
00:16:30.83\00:16:32.50
Well it was a symbol
of man's determination
00:16:32.71\00:16:36.29
to gain knowledge
independently of God,
00:16:36.50\00:16:39.06
that's right, okay,
and that would result in
00:16:39.26\00:16:41.34
perversion of good.
You see, it was a tree
00:16:41.55\00:16:43.60
of knowledge good and evil.
00:16:43.79\00:16:44.95
When God finished creating,
00:16:45.16\00:16:46.60
He said everything is very good
00:16:46.79\00:16:49.13
and that tree was very good.
00:16:49.35\00:16:52.19
But the eating of it was an evil
00:16:52.40\00:16:56.83
because it was a
choice to pervert.
00:16:57.02\00:17:00.09
What God had done to
use to the wrong ends
00:17:00.31\00:17:03.18
to self centered ends
because you see the principle
00:17:03.39\00:17:06.48
of God's government
is a principle of loving
00:17:06.69\00:17:08.64
and serving and
giving and of worshiping God
00:17:08.86\00:17:15.90
and focusing upon
him and it's in the focus
00:17:16.11\00:17:19.25
upon God that self
finds the greatest meaning.
00:17:19.45\00:17:22.99
In other words, it's
not focusing on myself
00:17:23.20\00:17:25.56
that I find the great meaning.
00:17:25.77\00:17:27.62
It's in focusing on
the creator. Amen, amen.
00:17:27.82\00:17:29.99
There are
existence only has meaning
00:17:30.20\00:17:33.66
because God
exists. That's right. Yeah.
00:17:33.87\00:17:35.58
And that gives us
back to what we had
00:17:35.80\00:17:37.48
in the first time you
remember we are talking
00:17:37.69\00:17:39.26
about in order for
a family to be happy,
00:17:39.47\00:17:41.94
there needs to be a purpose.
00:17:42.16\00:17:45.56
There needs to be
essence of worth. Yes.
00:17:45.77\00:17:51.62
Both of those are
based on love relationships,
00:17:51.83\00:17:55.12
but love does not come.
00:17:55.32\00:17:56.54
You see the lower
nature involves affections
00:17:56.75\00:17:59.68
that's a faculty of affection.
00:17:59.89\00:18:02.31
Every kitten is affectionate
00:18:02.51\00:18:04.39
and every little
puppy is affectionate.
00:18:04.58\00:18:06.86
Let's think it's
spoiled, you know.
00:18:07.06\00:18:08.47
Right. But all the little
creatures are affectionate
00:18:08.68\00:18:11.76
they have the
natural affections.
00:18:11.96\00:18:13.19
Man has natural affections.
Okay. But separate from.
00:18:13.41\00:18:17.06
True love
involves the choice. Yes.
00:18:17.27\00:18:19.27
And it involves the
choice to worship God supremely,
00:18:19.49\00:18:23.43
put Him first.
Instead of myself.
00:18:23.64\00:18:25.40
Instead of myself, and
then put others, love them.
00:18:25.62\00:18:29.43
As I love myself and
actually love them for God.
00:18:29.64\00:18:34.02
In other words, I
receive his love and pass it on.
00:18:34.24\00:18:37.85
Alright. And that is why
it's different in the pups.
00:18:38.06\00:18:42.25
They will always adore
man but never know God,
00:18:42.47\00:18:46.20
but our little children
have to grow up learning
00:18:46.42\00:18:49.94
to know God and to worship him.
00:18:50.15\00:18:52.12
So this is no fast
process either. No. Go ahead.
00:18:52.33\00:18:57.56
Well you know it
just occurred to me Kathy
00:18:57.77\00:18:59.08
that when he speaks about
affections he is not saying
00:18:59.30\00:19:01.46
there is any
wrong with affections.
00:19:01.66\00:19:02.67
No. With the emotions,
00:19:02.87\00:19:03.92
there is nothing
wrong with emotions.
00:19:04.12\00:19:05.09
But yet a person could be
emotional and affectionate
00:19:05.20\00:19:07.94
and still be selfish
maybe Yes, yes. That's correct.
00:19:08.14\00:19:10.75
And still be selfish may
be but that, but that what
00:19:10.96\00:19:13.82
you are saying is
that love isn't selfish.
00:19:14.02\00:19:16.00
A difference
between affection and love.
00:19:16.23\00:19:18.62
Love goes beyond affection
00:19:18.83\00:19:19.80
although love
has affection in it.
00:19:20.00\00:19:21.20
Well love has emotion in it.
00:19:21.41\00:19:22.81
Affections don't
always have love in it.
00:19:23.01\00:19:25.12
It's stronger. Well
Love is designed to purify
00:19:25.34\00:19:27.08
the emotions and keep them
00:19:27.28\00:19:28.93
focused in the right direction.
00:19:30.34\00:19:31.52
You see when the
affections are emotionally
00:19:31.73\00:19:35.19
based they are self centered.
Oh! Yeah yes right. Yes.
00:19:35.40\00:19:38.33
See and love turns
the pole around and.
00:19:38.54\00:19:43.71
Where there others centered.
00:19:43.92\00:19:45.30
That's right and
supremely God's said
00:19:45.50\00:19:47.92
it is Holy Christ you
know that the two commands
00:19:48.12\00:19:50.50
he said, love God supremely
00:19:50.69\00:19:52.02
and your neighbor
as yourself. Right.
00:19:52.24\00:19:53.84
In either cases
to focus on self. No.
00:19:54.05\00:19:56.45
But the fact is that
God intended he created
00:19:56.66\00:20:01.74
this for the greatest joy
00:20:01.95\00:20:02.93
that the creature is capable of.
00:20:03.15\00:20:07.39
And there is no way
for us to increase that,
00:20:07.60\00:20:09.72
but I would like to discuss
that the tree of knowledge
00:20:09.95\00:20:15.81
for a little bit
and Eve's choice.
00:20:16.02\00:20:18.14
The tree of
knowledge offered them
00:20:18.34\00:20:21.73
according to the
serpent the status of Elohim.
00:20:21.97\00:20:26.28
Now in Genesis 1:1 it
says in the beginning Elohim
00:20:26.50\00:20:30.32
and I am using the Hebrew too.
00:20:30.52\00:20:32.41
Elohim created the
heaven and the earth.
00:20:32.61\00:20:34.75
Elohim is mentioned over
and over again in all the way
00:20:34.97\00:20:39.30
through Genesis 1
and then into Genesis 2
00:20:39.50\00:20:42.58
and into Genesis
3. Now in Genesis 3,
00:20:42.78\00:20:47.08
it comes from the
mouth of the serpent
00:20:47.29\00:20:48.45
and now he offers
them to be Elohim. Okay.
00:20:48.66\00:20:52.93
Or like Elohim. Right.
00:20:53.14\00:20:55.79
Now God did
create us like himself.
00:20:56.00\00:20:58.10
He created in his
own image, but he created
00:20:58.31\00:21:01.53
this dependent and
that is the one thing.
00:21:01.74\00:21:03.64
He is not. There you
go. That is a one thing.
00:21:03.85\00:21:05.42
Satan said you got to
be independent in order
00:21:05.63\00:21:08.36
to achieve the status
that you are capable of
00:21:08.57\00:21:11.07
and there is where the
independence the choice
00:21:11.29\00:21:16.37
to cut off the channel of
God's communication with man
00:21:16.59\00:21:21.62
which alone could keep
his faculties imbalanced.
00:21:21.82\00:21:25.98
You see without the
power of God's Holy Spirit
00:21:26.18\00:21:29.30
working toward the body temple
00:21:29.52\00:21:31.41
without that working
through the cerebral cortex.
00:21:32.15\00:21:36.41
The reason,
judgment, and will without that
00:21:36.63\00:21:40.56
man would become a
captive to his own emotions.
00:21:40.77\00:21:43.03
And when Satan
offered him freedom,
00:21:43.23\00:21:45.72
he was actually the
word freedom meant captivity.
00:21:45.93\00:21:49.76
Well is man. Bondage.
The word freedom meant.
00:21:49.96\00:21:53.60
That's what he
offered them verbally.
00:21:53.81\00:21:55.81
What he was really
offering them was bondage. Yes.
00:21:56.01\00:21:59.58
He knew that if he
could get them to choose,
00:21:59.80\00:22:04.50
to cut the connection,
to cut the connection.
00:22:04.72\00:22:07.03
You know, I was just
thinking of these cameras
00:22:08.12\00:22:10.63
out here you know that
are doing the work. Yes.
00:22:10.84\00:22:13.35
Wonderful, very
expensive, and marvelous. Yes.
00:22:13.56\00:22:15.89
Just unplug once
to see what you get.
00:22:16.10\00:22:17.33
And that's what
I had. So you know,
00:22:17.54\00:22:19.38
when I think of
the child of two,
00:22:19.58\00:22:20.89
when you are talking
about when a child is born
00:22:21.09\00:22:23.62
would we say that they are all,
00:22:23.84\00:22:24.87
they're captive already.
00:22:25.07\00:22:26.15
Well they are born with
this function and that's why
00:22:26.35\00:22:33.29
the parents have to
train and constrain.
00:22:33.48\00:22:37.34
The parents must
act as God in seeing
00:22:37.56\00:22:42.70
that the children do not,
00:22:42.91\00:22:44.56
are not
controlled by their emotions.
00:22:44.78\00:22:48.53
Not, not become
captive by their emotions.
00:22:48.73\00:22:51.04
That's right. Now let me
bounce something off of you.
00:22:51.26\00:22:53.61
The human creature
has a will the question is
00:22:53.82\00:22:58.07
will that will
be able to function,
00:22:58.27\00:22:59.69
will it be a slave
to the lower nature.
00:22:59.91\00:23:05.72
I think I heard
you say this before.
00:23:05.92\00:23:07.38
In other words, it is
at the point of this will,
00:23:07.59\00:23:10.03
where we are set free to
be connected with the one
00:23:10.28\00:23:14.49
in whose image we were made.
00:23:14.70\00:23:15.94
But if that isn't
connected that will,
00:23:16.14\00:23:19.31
will be totally dominated.
00:23:19.51\00:23:21.02
That's correct, and
it's the parent who decides
00:23:21.21\00:23:23.05
whether we dominate it,
because you see the child
00:23:23.25\00:23:26.01
does not have the
capacity to reason
00:23:26.22\00:23:29.25
and to discern and to
act, he does not have, he maybe
00:23:29.45\00:23:34.80
willful in the sense that
his emotions are driving him.
00:23:35.00\00:23:38.07
Okay. But he is not
going to be exercising will
00:23:38.29\00:23:41.50
as long as the
emotions are driving him.
00:23:41.71\00:23:44.38
Well not, are you saying
that these lower emotions
00:23:44.60\00:23:48.80
are causing the will
to manifest themselves
00:23:49.01\00:23:55.04
rather than the
will of God. Yes, yes.
00:23:55.26\00:23:57.24
I know there are
many ways of saying this,
00:23:57.30\00:23:58.75
that's right. Because the will,
00:23:58.96\00:24:00.21
I came to the conclusion Kathy
00:24:00.42\00:24:02.15
that if you
wanted to say who am I?
00:24:02.35\00:24:04.29
I am my will, I am my will,
00:24:04.49\00:24:06.11
the bottom line is I am
my will. I have my choices.
00:24:06.31\00:24:08.00
And I think we read in
Romans that will is either
00:24:08.20\00:24:12.68
a slave took to
Satan and to the flesh.
00:24:12.88\00:24:16.01
To whom you shall serve.
00:24:16.22\00:24:17.19
Or it's a servant of God. Right.
00:24:17.32\00:24:18.90
And it can't be both,
it's either one of the other.
00:24:19.11\00:24:21.46
And the infant would naturally
00:24:21.68\00:24:23.40
becoming slaved
to his emotions. Yes.
00:24:23.60\00:24:27.13
But the Christian parent
has the privilege of acting
00:24:27.33\00:24:31.26
as real for the
child in restraining him
00:24:31.47\00:24:35.35
and training him. And
training needs to be started
00:24:35.56\00:24:38.81
not when the child is 2 or 3.
00:24:39.02\00:24:40.42
Right, but as a
baby in the arms.
00:24:40.63\00:24:43.05
But when he is a baby,
that's right so that the baby
00:24:43.27\00:24:45.77
will be trained to respond
to the parent's authority.
00:24:45.98\00:24:51.52
Yes. And in this
sense, the parent acts as will
00:24:51.73\00:24:55.33
for the child and in
doing so is serving God
00:24:55.56\00:25:00.06
and training him to obey God.
00:25:00.27\00:25:02.13
Now if the parent
continues in that function
00:25:02.33\00:25:05.74
of controlling the will, to God,
00:25:05.97\00:25:07.90
eventually he
becomes an anti-Christ.
00:25:08.12\00:25:11.06
Yes anti-Christ. So it's
got to be transferred over
00:25:11.27\00:25:13.56
and in time, it's got
to be transferred over
00:25:13.80\00:25:16.52
and choices has to be
given The transfer should
00:25:16.72\00:25:18.30
as quickly as the
faculties are developed. Yes.
00:25:18.51\00:25:21.59
Yes and those
choices have to given
00:25:21.80\00:25:23.29
and the parent guides
those choices so that they can
00:25:23.50\00:25:26.81
develop and these
are marvelous subjects.
00:25:27.01\00:25:29.97
Do you know our
time is already up.
00:25:30.18\00:25:31.41
You know it is almost
got and there is something
00:25:31.62\00:25:33.84
I wanted to talk about, I
know we can't get very far,
00:25:34.04\00:25:36.78
but if we don't get
started may be next time
00:25:36.99\00:25:38.87
we can make a little
better progress on this,
00:25:39.09\00:25:41.78
but I wanted to
discuss the effect of the sin.
00:25:41.98\00:25:45.38
Quickly. Adam felt when
Eve came to him with a fruit.
00:25:45.58\00:25:50.29
He felt that he could
not live without her. Yes.
00:25:50.51\00:25:55.20
And the scripture says
that Adam was not received.
00:25:55.42\00:25:58.30
Adam knew when he ate
that fruit he is gonna die,
00:25:58.51\00:26:00.85
but as soon as he ate the fruit
00:26:01.06\00:26:03.97
something happened to him.
00:26:04.19\00:26:05.67
He had chosen himself to
separate from God. Alright.
00:26:05.90\00:26:09.92
In favor of Eve, now we
must not even for our mates
00:26:10.15\00:26:15.30
separate from God,
because we cannot love
00:26:15.51\00:26:18.89
our mates without his love.
00:26:19.11\00:26:22.42
And, when he forego or
forwent, he made the choice
00:26:22.63\00:26:26.90
to go to Eve before
God, he lost the both.
00:26:27.12\00:26:30.62
And now I tell
you what happened.
00:26:30.85\00:26:32.60
As soon as he sinned,
00:26:32.82\00:26:36.11
he sensed first of all
a terrible sense of guilt.
00:26:36.33\00:26:39.88
He suddenly realized,
you know, his hopeless state,
00:26:40.10\00:26:44.18
came ashamed with
that they cause them to run
00:26:44.39\00:26:48.72
and hide and try to get leaves
00:26:48.92\00:26:50.33
and you know make a garments.
00:26:50.54\00:26:52.17
How can you put it
off in 5 more seconds?
00:26:52.39\00:26:54.15
Well, the thing that
happened next was self defense
00:26:54.37\00:26:59.10
and that's what
destroys a family.
00:26:59.33\00:27:01.17
Every time we separate from God,
00:27:01.39\00:27:03.30
we are preparing to
separate from the family.
00:27:03.51\00:27:05.38
I just want to end by this.
00:27:05.60\00:27:06.92
When Adam was
finally confronted from God
00:27:07.14\00:27:11.09
and brought out of his hiding,
00:27:11.31\00:27:12.38
first thing he
did just to accuse Eve
00:27:12.60\00:27:15.30
and say in effect
God, she is the blame.
00:27:15.52\00:27:18.97
If you're gonna
punish somebody, punish her,
00:27:19.19\00:27:21.14
but please save me
and so what happens
00:27:21.34\00:27:24.80
when we make
choices to cut off from God
00:27:25.01\00:27:28.34
as we lose all
our human relation.
00:27:28.55\00:27:32.37
How fascinating, this
is so fascinating to me.
00:27:32.58\00:27:35.70
It's get so exciting
and there is so much energy
00:27:35.90\00:27:37.52
going on here and I
know our time is over.
00:27:37.73\00:27:40.66
I want to
invite our guests back,
00:27:40.89\00:27:42.85
watch us again next
time on Thinking About Home
00:27:43.07\00:27:45.26
we're gonna go out with prayer.
00:27:45.47\00:27:46.53
Father in Heaven, thank
you so much for this privilege
00:27:47.38\00:27:50.09
of coming
together to consider your
00:27:50.31\00:27:53.05
wonderful plan as
presented in the Book of Genesis
00:27:53.27\00:27:56.60
help us go back till beginning.
00:27:56.81\00:27:59.24