Hi, I'm Kathy
Matthews and thank you for
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joining us on
"Thinking about Home."
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And today we have with us Karen
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Tsigonoff and Pastor
Richard O'Ffill from the
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Florida Conference of
Seventh-day Adventist.
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And we've been doing a
lot of discussing about
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home life, isn't
it? Isn't that true?
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In the last days.
Yes, in the last days,
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we've been doing
a lot of thinking
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about home,
haven't we? We sure have.
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We've been doing
a series that's the,
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Christian family
living in the last days and
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that's exactly where we're at.
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We're in the last
days. And, and Jesus has
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warned us in advance
that living in the last
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days would be
dangerous and more than one way.
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Yes. That there would
be deceptions in the last
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days, yes, and, and a
deception, if it's gonna
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be credible, a
credible deception right. Yes.
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It, it gonna be,
people are gonna be, actually
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gonna fall for. Yes.
It's gonna be something
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that you don't expect.
And, and so the culture
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you know, we've
talked about the culture,
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we've talked about,
our language, the language
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the, the devil is
infiltrating our language.
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He wants to get into our minds.
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And when we think of
the, of the very last
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prophecies you know,
that we know that the
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devil's last move
against the people of God will
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be to destroy them physically.
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We talk about the
death degree. Yes.
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But if, but if, if
he can get your brain,
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before that, before
that. Yes. Then, then he's got
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your body too.
Right. Yeah, and so really,
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I've said in this way
that the devil's death degree
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is for those whose,
whose brains he didn't get.
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You understand what
I'm saying? Well, yes.
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And, and, and so
what we've got to do as
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families is to be on
the guard that the devil
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doesn't get in amongst
us, get into our minds,
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get into our, get
into our way of thinking.
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Right and our
worship 'cause whom
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we serve we worship.
Exactly. Or worship we
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serve whichever way
you want to think of it.
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In this program I
would like for us to,
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I think a little bit and
I'm glad that I have you,
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you ladies here
with me and you know what
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we're gonna go, don't go
there till I, until I say
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go, until I open the
gate. No, these ladies are just
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so anxious to get
into this subject.
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Oh! No, I don't know about that.
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It's just a, it's a
subject they'll that has;
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we've had an experience in.
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Absolutely, but I want
to tell our, our viewing
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audience that we're
gonna talk about some
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things in this
program that please
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be kind to us,
right? Because we don't
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purpose to say
all that could be set,
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we don't even suggest
that that every thought
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that we might express
you know is necessarily
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the, you know
the, the bottom line,
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the bottom line.
Well, or even that
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sometimes that give
us the break that we have
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expressed it and
maybe we would, if we had an
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opportunity
face-to-face we would express it
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even better or more
clearer or something like that.
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Yeah, in a different
way, but what we hope
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is that these
programs will stir up thinking.
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Yes. Now, I
remember I had a teacher,
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Karen, years ago,
and he would tease the
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class, he would say,
don't be afraid to think,
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a thinking is not
painful or fatal, but for some
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people you would
think it was more,
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it is painful. It's
painful, and it maybe you know,
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first of all, but the
Christian, isn't there a
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quotation that says
that we're to be thinkers and
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not mere reflectors of
other people's thoughts.
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And so, even as we
go to the word of God we
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go to the word of God
to get the information,
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but just like when
we eat food we have to
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digest it to make
it part of ourselves.
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I think in the same
way as we go to the word of
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God and we read His
will and His instruction,
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which is profitable
for us and necessary for us
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to survive in the last
days. We've got a process this
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out; we have to
really think about Him.
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Anyway here we
go, I'm gonna set the
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introduction for
this. Okay. In the church
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from early on, ever
since I could remember
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we had only culture standards,
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church standards
and it wasn't just the
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Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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No, I would just been
say that, it was hardly
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this alone. I think
that we got maybe lots of
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our, our church
standards from the
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Methodists because
that you know, our early
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church fathers and
mothers were Methodists.
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I can remember
as a child when the,
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Nazarenes. Yes.
I maybe wrong, but
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I think there was
even a time in which you
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know, the Baptist
that you know; they
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wouldn't drink, smoke
or dance or go to theater
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and so forth. So, we
had these, these things that
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were called you know,
the Christian standards
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including the way
we would dress. Yes.
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We could dress in
certain ways and other
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way we couldn't
dress. And, and, and I think
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that the concept
of the, the Christian
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lifestyle was based
on, on couple of text of
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scripture you
know, of course the whole
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scripture, but the
text that we would use
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would be maybe the
one in James chapter 4
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verse, verse 4, it says,
whosoever in the last part.
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Well, let me, let
me read the whole thing
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"Ye adulterers and
adulteresses, know ye
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not that the
friendship of the world
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is enmity with
God? Yeah. Whosoever
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therefore will be a
friend of the world is
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the enemy of God."
And so, right off we
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understood that the
Christian man was not
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to love the world.
And, and there was another
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one over in, in First
John, it was First John
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chapter 2 verse 15,
and it says, love not,
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you could see it here Karen.
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Love not the world,
go ahead and read it.
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"Love not the world,
neither the things that
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are in the world. If
any man love the world,
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the love of the
Father is not in him."
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And so I think
these, these were probably a
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fundamental texts that
that instructed us that
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Christians were
not like the world.
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They were different; they were
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suppose to be different.
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Well you know, as
time would go in the years
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we passed and you
know what the years
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you know,
sometimes the years make it,
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will mellow you out
and make you sweeter,
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other times they
can change things
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fundamentally. Yes,
that's true like you
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relaxed and
forget what's necessary.
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Exactly and so, what
happened I think maybe
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amongst us in, in
our particular fellowship
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we began to understand
that we're not saved by
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works, we're saved
by faith. And you know.
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And that's true. And,
and of course it's true,
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but then as we, as
this began to down on us,
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we're not saved by
works, we're saved by faith.
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Then suddenly these
lifestyle issues began to
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be perceive, very
good, well they have been,
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they were perceived
that has been works.
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Yes, which would
be a wrong perception?
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A wrong perception
for what salvation is.
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And so, just as
soon as a person gets
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oh! I'm not, I'm not
saved by grace through
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faith and then they would say,
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well this means I
can do anything I want,
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I can live any way I
want to live. Yes, okay.
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I can go where I
want to go, I can eat what
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I want to eat, I can
dress the way I want to dress.
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So, in some ways as
the wonderful truth of
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justification by
faith, right, began to be
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understood to put it
one way we, we began to
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throw the baby out
of the bath water. Yes.
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He began to say
well, then that's
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was a waste of
time. Within we have to
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question I do, I
would have to question then
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what's in my heart, then what
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was in my heart
before? Do I, do I, do I serve
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the Lord out of
the love for Him?
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Or was I only
obeying rules to begin with.
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Our list of rules.
Yes. Because Karen, I don't
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even think that
that you would remember
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because, because
you're a new Christian
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that there was kind of
a checklist being, being
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even a Seventh-day
Adventist and, and even
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members of other
faiths was a checklist.
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You didn't do this; you
didn't do that, in fact.
00:08:08.20\00:08:09.78
Well, yeah we don't
want to just lay that on
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Seventh-day Adventism
because it's been that
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way throughout
history in a sense because,
00:08:14.79\00:08:17.85
if anybody is
serving the Lord only by a
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checklist didn't matter
what era of time it was.
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Then and then, if
they understood the
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justification by
faith and they threw out the
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standards then
the problem existed,
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has existed throughout history.
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This is a problem with
the heart, of course it is,
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this is not a
problem with now, I mean with
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the church now. But
it's become extenuated
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we're living in the last days.
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Right, and it's
more obvious and it's,
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its more blatant. In
our generation because
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we're seeing it happen before,
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before our very
eyes. We had the checklist,
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now we're throwing
out the checklist and,
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and of course I think
we'll talk about this,
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maybe it's not in
this program, in other
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programs is that
when you through the
00:08:57.94\00:08:59.80
checklist out, did
the principles disappear,
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but you know I was
surprised, I was reading.
00:09:02.44\00:09:05.64
Did they ever get into
the heart in the first book?
00:09:05.65\00:09:07.73
Well, this is what
we've got ask ourselves.
00:09:07.95\00:09:10.29
Okay. If we were
living by a checklist then the
00:09:10.30\00:09:12.68
as Paul would say,
then the law of God was on
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your back. Okay,
right. The law of God's in
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your heart, do you
still live a holy life,
00:09:17.63\00:09:20.19
scripture would
say, yes. Some people
00:09:20.54\00:09:21.84
would say, well, you
know the law you know
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I live by grace
to whatever. Right.
00:09:24.49\00:09:26.31
But anyway listen
to this because in the,
00:09:26.32\00:09:29.42
Old Testament is
full of the word "Holy."
00:09:29.43\00:09:32.22
Yes, we know that God
is Holy, we sing, holy,
00:09:32.62\00:09:35.26
holy, holy, but listen to this.
00:09:35.27\00:09:37.50
In Hebrews the 12th
chapter verse 14 it says,
00:09:38.35\00:09:45.25
"Follow peace with
all men, and holiness,
00:09:45.26\00:09:48.70
without which no
man shall see the Lord."
00:09:49.43\00:09:51.52
Now, this is pretty
heavy. In other words,
00:09:52.58\00:09:54.22
this is. We need
to better understand
00:09:54.23\00:09:56.29
holiness. We've got to
understand what that is
00:09:56.66\00:09:58.41
because whatever
holiness is, if you don't
00:09:58.42\00:10:01.16
have it, you don't see
God, and then you don't
00:10:01.17\00:10:04.36
see God. So, I went
into this Hebrew stuff you
00:10:04.37\00:10:07.84
know, you wanna
hear I'm speak Hebrew,
00:10:07.85\00:10:09.63
I can't. Anyway
so, so I went into the
00:10:09.82\00:10:12.48
concordance to find
out you know, what this
00:10:12.49\00:10:14.85
meant originally.
And do you know that
00:10:14.86\00:10:18.14
one of them big
meanings of this word
00:10:18.15\00:10:21.87
holy is separate.
Now, I know that doesn't
00:10:21.88\00:10:24.73
you know, you can
think of, we know we
00:10:24.74\00:10:26.19
sing holy, holy,
holy, you need to think
00:10:26.20\00:10:27.84
between separate,
separate, separate.
00:10:27.85\00:10:29.60
But of course see
that's a concept of God
00:10:29.92\00:10:31.99
because God's separate
then us. From the text,
00:10:32.00\00:10:34.32
it says, don't
make me like you. Yes.
00:10:34.33\00:10:37.22
And then and so, and so
God is not only, not like
00:10:37.46\00:10:40.58
us, but He is saying
to us don't be like them.
00:10:40.59\00:10:44.62
Right. Are we ready?
Are you ready ladies?
00:10:45.42\00:10:50.35
No, I'm going to join
in. No, I'm not going to
00:10:51.08\00:10:56.21
join, I'm gonna be
the referee, remember,
00:10:56.22\00:10:58.67
we would saying
before the program.
00:10:58.68\00:10:59.73
Well, we're not doing
to be arguing it's just.
00:10:59.74\00:11:00.71
Now, but what we
want to, to invite our,
00:11:00.72\00:11:03.54
our viewers to do is
to join us, I think it's
00:11:03.55\00:11:07.38
rather clear that
historically we were
00:11:07.39\00:11:11.73
called upon that He
separate from the world.
00:11:11.74\00:11:13.29
I think it's rather
obvious that there is a
00:11:13.96\00:11:15.61
trend now to, to try
to get back and to try to
00:11:15.62\00:11:18.68
ignore that for, for
whatever reason to be
00:11:18.69\00:11:20.85
like the world, if
you're gonna win the world,
00:11:20.86\00:11:22.14
you got to be like
them. This text just said
00:11:22.15\00:11:25.97
that when you do that
if you love the world you
00:11:26.63\00:11:29.59
begin to lose your
touch with God, you can
00:11:29.60\00:11:31.74
become an enemy with
God, it's saying here
00:11:31.75\00:11:33.85
unless you're
separate, you won't see God.
00:11:33.86\00:11:36.64
And so, let's get on and
say, listen we, the issue
00:11:37.10\00:11:42.21
of a, of Christian
lifestyle was valid,
00:11:42.22\00:11:44.61
it was valid. Now,
we might not know why
00:11:44.70\00:11:46.65
we're doing it? But,
but, but, but we were right
00:11:46.66\00:11:50.37
to do it. Yes. Now,
of the things and I think
00:11:50.38\00:11:53.08
this is something we
want to try to, to survey
00:11:53.09\00:11:56.48
in this program as we
want to try to talk about
00:11:56.49\00:11:59.42
this issue of
Christian dress. Yes. I mean we
00:11:59.43\00:12:02.92
could pick out the,
the health side of it,
00:12:02.93\00:12:05.26
we could pick out
whether not we should
00:12:05.27\00:12:07.81
you know, what kind of
the pleasures we should
00:12:07.82\00:12:10.10
have, see those
because there were many
00:12:10.11\00:12:11.63
components of
Christian lifestyle,
00:12:11.64\00:12:13.57
but for the purpose
of this program why don't
00:12:14.12\00:12:16.24
we just talk
about this issue of what
00:12:16.25\00:12:20.08
should be some of the,
the, the principles that
00:12:20.09\00:12:23.11
motivate the
Christian in this area of dress.
00:12:23.12\00:12:26.28
And, let me start
off by just sort of
00:12:27.04\00:12:30.46
throwing out of the question.
00:12:30.47\00:12:31.54
Is God right or
would it be right?
00:12:34.37\00:12:36.96
For God to expect
that those who love Him
00:12:37.23\00:12:40.38
would dress
different things you know.
00:12:41.02\00:12:42.57
I think that would
be appropriate that the,
00:12:42.85\00:12:45.68
the Lord
certainly would expect that.
00:12:45.69\00:12:47.67
I was raised in an
environment where the
00:12:48.83\00:12:51.18
Lord was professed and there was
00:12:51.19\00:12:52.69
a Bible in our home.
However, the lifestyle
00:12:52.70\00:12:55.38
of my home was just
like everyone else was
00:12:55.39\00:12:58.55
living in, that
wasn't professing the Lord,
00:12:58.56\00:13:00.39
same here, you
know dress and music and
00:13:01.66\00:13:04.25
just all these
things were, everything was
00:13:04.69\00:13:06.33
the same I, I mean
there was no difference.
00:13:06.84\00:13:09.62
So, growing up I just,
I didn't, I didn't see God
00:13:10.11\00:13:16.57
in our home. I
only heard His name,
00:13:16.96\00:13:18.55
but I didn't see that
there was any different
00:13:18.56\00:13:20.96
that He was just like
the every one else. Right.
00:13:21.32\00:13:24.71
So, so just like that you
00:13:25.17\00:13:27.71
couldn't tell the difference.
00:13:27.72\00:13:28.75
I couldn't tell
the difference and when
00:13:28.87\00:13:30.25
I saw others who
were different than I was
00:13:30.26\00:13:32.44
they were strange.
And I, thought they were
00:13:32.81\00:13:35.46
odd, they didn't
something but then
00:13:35.47\00:13:36.83
coming to Christ and
just reading the Bible
00:13:37.16\00:13:39.61
for myself and seeing
the way that I had lived
00:13:39.62\00:13:42.61
I knew I had to be
different if I wanted to,
00:13:42.62\00:13:45.49
to know Christ,
just the way that I was
00:13:46.06\00:13:48.53
introduced to Him I
knew I had to there,
00:13:48.54\00:13:52.69
there was something
different to Him that
00:13:52.70\00:13:55.29
you, you can't
just say serve the Lord,
00:13:56.23\00:13:59.60
follow the Lord, pray
and read your Bible and
00:13:59.61\00:14:02.42
do everything that,
the same as you used to.
00:14:02.43\00:14:04.98
Yeah you, there
has to be changes.
00:14:04.99\00:14:07.00
Well, I think I have to
you know it's, it's easier
00:14:07.01\00:14:09.86
for me to tell
stories of what happened to me
00:14:09.87\00:14:12.13
when I first became a Christian.
00:14:12.63\00:14:14.59
And I understood that
there were things that
00:14:15.14\00:14:17.98
needed to be
different, but I was just in the
00:14:18.51\00:14:21.63
world I was brought
up, I was raised in the 60s
00:14:21.64\00:14:24.32
there were, it, it
seemed to be the thing to,
00:14:24.33\00:14:27.67
have less and less and
less clothing on and so
00:14:27.68\00:14:33.06
by the time that I
was becoming a Christian
00:14:33.07\00:14:35.71
there was an
incident that happened to me
00:14:36.14\00:14:37.65
and I was sitting
in my bikini and I was,
00:14:38.14\00:14:44.10
weighed a lot less at
that time and was a lot
00:14:44.11\00:14:47.55
younger and it was important
00:14:47.56\00:14:51.12
to me to try to
attract. And I was just had
00:14:51.13\00:14:56.67
become a Christian and
I was sitting over at a
00:14:56.68\00:15:00.22
Christian's home. And
we were sitting around
00:15:00.23\00:15:03.14
the pool and one of
the husband's came home
00:15:03.15\00:15:06.24
and it was a very hot
hard day at work and he
00:15:06.69\00:15:12.08
jumped out of
the vehicle and said,
00:15:12.09\00:15:14.04
look out here I
come and stripped off his
00:15:14.20\00:15:16.29
clothing into
small amounts and it was
00:15:16.30\00:15:21.41
shocking and at
the same time I thought
00:15:21.42\00:15:25.74
well, you know I
can just pass over this
00:15:25.75\00:15:28.02
obviously this is just
the way it is, maybe this is
00:15:28.03\00:15:30.94
just the way it is
and there is nothing to be
00:15:30.95\00:15:32.32
embarrassed about.
Later on as I began to
00:15:32.33\00:15:35.84
more, study more for
myself, I, I needed to,
00:15:35.85\00:15:40.20
to see the example and
when I saw it, I realized
00:15:40.91\00:15:44.46
that it's, that's,
that's what I need to be doing
00:15:44.47\00:15:47.23
as a Christian woman
this is what the Lord
00:15:47.24\00:15:49.29
wants me to do. And
there was a Christian
00:15:49.30\00:15:52.30
sister who took the risk
of the, 'cause this can be
00:15:52.31\00:15:57.07
a hot touchy subject.
She took the risk to take
00:15:57.08\00:16:01.90
me aside and get to
know me and, and have
00:16:01.91\00:16:04.83
a trust and a rapport and
I developed a love for her.
00:16:04.84\00:16:08.45
And then she took
the risk of helping me to
00:16:09.12\00:16:11.35
understand that
a Christian woman
00:16:11.36\00:16:13.50
needed to make new
and different decisions
00:16:13.51\00:16:16.31
and I would like to go
back just a little further
00:16:16.88\00:16:18.72
than that as to what
my attitude was before
00:16:18.73\00:16:21.76
I ever became a
Christian and that was,
00:16:21.77\00:16:23.63
my husband and I
were living in Germany,
00:16:24.16\00:16:25.86
we had lived there
for three years and I was
00:16:25.87\00:16:27.38
working in a
department there on the post and
00:16:27.39\00:16:30.94
there was a staff
sergeant that used to
00:16:32.07\00:16:33.81
come in, and at
that time it was very
00:16:33.82\00:16:37.28
common for me to
read cosmopolitan and,
00:16:37.29\00:16:39.67
and my husband read
the mail magazines that
00:16:39.98\00:16:42.64
and they were
magazines that they
00:16:43.05\00:16:46.48
affected your thinking,
those articles affected
00:16:46.49\00:16:48.77
your thinking and
you kind of set your
00:16:48.78\00:16:50.58
lifestyle like that.
And I began to be rather
00:16:50.59\00:16:56.48
forward with my
ideas about how women
00:16:56.91\00:17:00.84
ought to be and he
was talking to me about
00:17:00.85\00:17:06.34
nudity and I
promptly told him I'll never
00:17:06.35\00:17:09.94
forget this, I
promptly told him that if I
00:17:09.95\00:17:12.50
stand here in front
of you with nothing on
00:17:12.51\00:17:15.56
and you dare to
touch me, if I haven't told
00:17:16.06\00:17:18.68
you, you could do so
then you are totally in
00:17:18.69\00:17:22.10
the wrong because
you should not be even
00:17:22.11\00:17:25.51
tempted, you should
not have a problem with me
00:17:25.52\00:17:27.64
doing that, that's my
decision and you should
00:17:27.65\00:17:29.81
not be affected by
it. And he looked at me in
00:17:29.82\00:17:31.78
the face and said,
woman, you don't know
00:17:31.79\00:17:35.26
what you're talking
about. And just turned on his
00:17:36.02\00:17:38.67
heel and walked out,
that was the end of the
00:17:38.68\00:17:40.09
conversation. Well,
it took a few years later
00:17:40.10\00:17:43.04
and reading the word
of the Lord that I found
00:17:43.05\00:17:44.77
out that I was
responsible to a large
00:17:44.78\00:17:47.56
degree as to what I
caused other people to
00:17:47.57\00:17:50.49
think about me and
I needed to make new
00:17:50.50\00:17:54.27
and different
decisions for myself.
00:17:54.28\00:17:55.89
And Karen you might
have had some similar.
00:17:55.90\00:17:57.68
Well, yeah I grew up
in the 80s which was just
00:17:58.21\00:18:01.43
as bad, if not worse
I mean all the things,
00:18:01.44\00:18:04.98
all the individual, you
need to be an individual
00:18:04.99\00:18:07.70
and they all looked
the same. I don't know
00:18:07.71\00:18:09.81
what whether he was just,
00:18:09.82\00:18:10.79
but one of things I
didn't receive in my
00:18:13.93\00:18:18.31
home life I obviously
you know acted out as a
00:18:18.32\00:18:22.15
teenager and I
always needed attention from
00:18:22.16\00:18:24.13
everyone. And one of
the ways I did that was
00:18:24.14\00:18:26.33
because I was
blessed with a very good
00:18:26.34\00:18:28.64
metabolism. I always
stayed very fit and trim,
00:18:28.65\00:18:30.41
and I didn't
have to do anything.
00:18:30.69\00:18:31.86
And sometimes that
could be cursed because
00:18:32.25\00:18:33.82
you get very complacent, but I
00:18:33.83\00:18:36.61
wore, I was very
scantly clad and that's how
00:18:36.62\00:18:40.67
I got everyone's
attention. And especially men's
00:18:40.68\00:18:44.87
attention, I was
always searching for that.
00:18:44.88\00:18:47.66
And the only way that
I could do that because
00:18:47.67\00:18:50.40
I had no value at all,
was to wear tiny skirts
00:18:50.41\00:18:53.74
and little tops and
just do whatever I could to
00:18:54.26\00:18:56.46
get somebody to look at me.
00:18:56.47\00:18:57.46
Then when I became a
Christian I really started
00:18:57.93\00:18:59.70
I won't do that
anymore and the only way that
00:18:59.71\00:19:01.36
I could change, amen,
is to stop showing that
00:19:01.37\00:19:04.36
that there was
something in my heart
00:19:04.37\00:19:05.64
that meant more, and
my body wasn't important.
00:19:05.65\00:19:07.79
And then I also had to
be very careful because
00:19:08.24\00:19:10.85
the Bible says, if
you do something and I'm
00:19:11.19\00:19:14.40
paraphrasing and
please forgive me, if you're
00:19:14.41\00:19:16.04
doing something to
cause a man's fault,
00:19:16.05\00:19:18.41
it's better that a
weight be tied around your
00:19:18.42\00:19:19.88
neck and you're
thrown in the river.
00:19:19.89\00:19:21.02
Now, that's not
a bad application.
00:19:21.03\00:19:22.09
Okay, so I, I had to
realize if I don't want
00:19:22.10\00:19:25.56
and I praised the
Lord when I got married,
00:19:26.11\00:19:27.69
I felt so good and I
was a married woman and
00:19:27.70\00:19:31.95
I can remember wanting
to change the length of
00:19:31.96\00:19:35.24
my skirts and the
height of my shoes and the
00:19:35.25\00:19:39.41
amount of eyeliner,
just these are, these are.
00:19:39.42\00:19:43.27
Because now you
belong to he and he
00:19:43.28\00:19:44.81
belong to you. And
I wanted to be sacred,
00:19:44.82\00:19:46.68
I wanted to be
hidden, I wanted to my own and
00:19:46.83\00:19:49.42
my husband's own
and nobody else', yes,
00:19:49.43\00:19:51.31
I wanted some mystery.
There's a beauty in that.
00:19:51.60\00:19:53.88
Yeah. And you've got something.
00:19:54.84\00:19:56.04
Listen, but you know,
and again I want to say
00:19:56.05\00:19:58.50
to our viewers that
this is, this is a very, very
00:19:58.51\00:20:02.33
important subject
and we wouldn't for the
00:20:02.34\00:20:05.07
world you know
'cause anyone to stumble or,
00:20:05.08\00:20:09.13
to offend anyone.
And, and what we're saying
00:20:09.14\00:20:11.81
now or what we're about to say.
00:20:11.82\00:20:13.30
I remember I would
sitting around the table
00:20:14.38\00:20:16.39
one time and, and a
young lady she said,
00:20:16.40\00:20:18.72
I want to appear to
be appealing to men and
00:20:18.73\00:20:23.55
I said to her, she was
a married woman, wanted
00:20:23.56\00:20:26.10
to be appealing to
men plural. And you said,
00:20:26.11\00:20:28.31
you and, and, and I,
and I, and I said to her,
00:20:28.32\00:20:30.81
do you what means to us men?
00:20:30.82\00:20:32.26
Do you know what
that means to us men?
00:20:32.87\00:20:34.52
Do you really want
that, is that what you want to
00:20:35.19\00:20:37.31
appear, is that what
the thought you want to
00:20:37.32\00:20:39.48
have in our minds?
Now, let me just say
00:20:39.49\00:20:41.01
here that that we
would never want to,
00:20:41.02\00:20:44.29
when we talk about
dress and so forth,
00:20:44.30\00:20:46.46
make it seem like
this is a woman's problem
00:20:46.72\00:20:48.62
because obviously we
all have our problems
00:20:48.89\00:20:51.66
and I don't think
that what you just said
00:20:51.97\00:20:53.92
Kathy, you know if
a man does something
00:20:53.93\00:20:56.24
that's wrong, when
he does something that's
00:20:56.25\00:20:58.18
wrong, he is
accountable for it. Yes.
00:20:58.19\00:20:59.90
But I think I'm
hearing you say that that as a
00:21:00.14\00:21:02.61
Christian woman
you feel you have an
00:21:02.62\00:21:05.30
accountability to
God for who you are and
00:21:05.31\00:21:07.15
how you betray it,
or how you not betray,
00:21:07.16\00:21:09.08
but how you portrait yourself,
00:21:09.09\00:21:11.18
are you portrait
yourself? And this is the most
00:21:11.19\00:21:15.85
the worst thing I
could say and please I say to
00:21:15.86\00:21:18.33
those the sisters
in Christ and who are
00:21:18.34\00:21:21.97
watching the program.
I've been mentioning in,
00:21:21.98\00:21:25.54
in some of my sermons
likely I said, ladies,
00:21:25.55\00:21:28.05
we men haven't
changed. Now, here goes Karen,
00:21:28.06\00:21:31.07
we're the same dirty
old men we've always been,
00:21:31.52\00:21:33.49
no, no, I'm serious
I mean there was, men
00:21:34.31\00:21:36.17
are, men are like
that. And, and, and, and no
00:21:36.18\00:21:39.07
excuse for that,
it's awful. We're going to
00:21:39.08\00:21:41.59
have the answer.
Find nature. We're gonna
00:21:41.60\00:21:42.95
have to answer to God
for being dirty old men,
00:21:42.96\00:21:45.48
but yet something has
changing, something is
00:21:46.10\00:21:48.63
changing in society
it's not us, forgive me for
00:21:48.64\00:21:52.40
saying it's the
women. The women I hate to
00:21:52.41\00:21:55.41
say this or getting to
be kind of dirty old men
00:21:55.42\00:21:57.80
like dirty old woman
are like we were dirty
00:21:57.81\00:22:00.19
old men. And, and,
and I've been asking the
00:22:00.20\00:22:02.90
question into some
of the congregations
00:22:02.91\00:22:05.58
where I preach. And,
and I don't know what
00:22:05.59\00:22:07.93
you ladies will say
about this or our viewers.
00:22:07.94\00:22:10.58
Who sets the moral
climate for the nation?
00:22:11.27\00:22:13.59
I don't think it's us
men. Oh! We discussed that
00:22:14.77\00:22:17.27
the other day
with young man that we
00:22:17.28\00:22:19.36
were talking to and
we wondered well how it
00:22:19.37\00:22:21.75
came about, who was
behind it, and of course
00:22:21.76\00:22:23.41
we have an enemy behind it, but.
00:22:23.42\00:22:25.48
In other words, we could say,
00:22:25.49\00:22:26.84
we could say, well,
it's the men that are the
00:22:26.85\00:22:28.65
drivers behind in
modesty, but, but yet
00:22:28.66\00:22:31.59
I think that to some
extend, now this is from
00:22:31.60\00:22:35.72
a man's point of
view. I think to some extend
00:22:35.73\00:22:38.95
the women set the
moral climate in the nation.
00:22:38.96\00:22:41.31
Can I tell another
little story that came to my
00:22:41.32\00:22:43.20
mind while we are on here?
00:22:43.21\00:22:44.18
I didn't' think
of it before end.
00:22:44.19\00:22:45.58
There was a class
reunion that I was going
00:22:46.45\00:22:48.23
back to, our 10th year
class reunion and I was
00:22:48.24\00:22:50.71
just oh! Just had
become Seventh-day
00:22:50.72\00:22:54.12
Adventist Christian
and I wanted to look
00:22:54.13\00:22:57.83
different and I
ran a business and the
00:22:57.84\00:23:00.27
business had to do
with weight loss and so
00:23:00.28\00:23:03.89
I looked to the part
at the time, I lived the
00:23:03.90\00:23:06.52
part, I looked the
part, I had just become a
00:23:06.53\00:23:08.23
Christian I had not
changed a great deal.
00:23:08.24\00:23:10.11
And I, I took some
pictures for this class
00:23:10.65\00:23:14.75
reunion and those
pictures were meant to
00:23:14.76\00:23:17.97
be sensual. I wanted to
look the part, so I took
00:23:17.98\00:23:22.19
them to the dear lady
that I had been studying
00:23:22.20\00:23:25.45
with, and she just
looked at them with this
00:23:25.46\00:23:26.45
with, and she just
looked at them with this
00:23:27.86\00:23:28.83
kind of blank look on
her face, not wanting to
00:23:28.84\00:23:30.85
hurt me I know and
she said, well Kathy,
00:23:30.86\00:23:34.21
it depends on what
you want to betray?
00:23:35.21\00:23:37.68
What do you want
them to think about you?
00:23:37.69\00:23:39.68
And walked away from
me and said, goodnight
00:23:40.26\00:23:42.17
'cause our prayer
meeting was over and
00:23:42.18\00:23:44.25
she didn't say
anything about what I had on,
00:23:44.26\00:23:46.43
she didn't say
anything just depends on what
00:23:46.44\00:23:48.62
you want them to
think. And it hit me,
00:23:48.63\00:23:51.43
I have you know I
don't need to think about
00:23:53.89\00:23:56.44
what I want them to
think and I went home
00:23:56.45\00:23:59.13
and I tore them up
and I didn't send them off
00:23:59.14\00:24:01.85
and tried to
portray something now of the
00:24:02.26\00:24:04.87
new me that I wanted
them to see. Go ahead.
00:24:04.88\00:24:08.79
And I think Karen
that you know over here.
00:24:08.80\00:24:10.33
Well, I guess you
just wouldn't want anyone
00:24:10.34\00:24:12.42
to think that there
is a fine line between
00:24:12.43\00:24:16.56
everything I had, I
mean I, I don't want to
00:24:16.86\00:24:19.55
live every moment
of life worrying about
00:24:19.56\00:24:23.22
what someone else is
going to think about,
00:24:23.23\00:24:24.61
right, I want to
be confident in the
00:24:24.62\00:24:26.52
decisions I make, but
I need to also aware on
00:24:26.53\00:24:29.75
the other side
that, I'm an ambassador
00:24:29.76\00:24:32.88
for Jesus Christ. Amen, amen.
00:24:32.89\00:24:34.85
And if I want
someone to see Jesus Christ
00:24:34.86\00:24:37.48
as humble and
pure, pure, I mean and we
00:24:38.59\00:24:44.11
also have to deal
whether we want to
00:24:44.12\00:24:46.15
accept it or not.
We have to deal with
00:24:46.16\00:24:47.44
the fact that our
society is very sick,
00:24:47.45\00:24:49.13
very
desensitized. That's right, and
00:24:49.71\00:24:52.00
regardless if it's
right because it's not.
00:24:52.57\00:24:56.40
We wish we live in a
society where we have
00:24:56.41\00:24:58.90
to be, we're walking
on egg shells, you know
00:24:58.91\00:25:01.17
but we have to
realize we're among, we are,
00:25:01.20\00:25:04.25
we're lambs among
wolves. That's true.
00:25:04.26\00:25:07.21
And we've got to be
every moment thinking
00:25:07.22\00:25:11.26
okay, how am I
portraying myself?
00:25:11.27\00:25:13.99
Am I going to
give and God forbid.
00:25:14.27\00:25:16.16
God forbid anyone,
God forbid anyone what
00:25:16.17\00:25:18.95
think that that anyone
that's a victim of this
00:25:18.96\00:25:24.95
world is at fault, but
I had to realize that if,
00:25:24.96\00:25:31.46
I didn't want
someone looking at me to lust
00:25:31.47\00:25:34.42
after me and a man is
gonna lust regardless,
00:25:34.43\00:25:36.76
you could be having
a paper sack over your
00:25:36.77\00:25:38.55
head and he's
gonna lust of you, but.
00:25:38.56\00:25:39.99
But we, we want,
we're in a society.
00:25:41.42\00:25:43.06
We want to defend
those who are good
00:25:43.07\00:25:44.04
men who, who
endeavor to represent
00:25:44.05\00:25:45.91
Christ too and don't want it.
00:25:45.92\00:25:47.10
Right, but we're
sinful. I go into the mall the
00:25:47.11\00:25:49.72
other day and I
see Victoria Secret,
00:25:49.73\00:25:52.00
it's a very fancy
women's lingerie and a
00:25:52.57\00:25:57.99
picture the size of a
building as a women in
00:25:58.00\00:26:01.76
her underwear. And
so this is what men are,
00:26:01.77\00:26:04.45
they are desensitized,
they don't think of that
00:26:04.46\00:26:07.10
like, oh! No one
walks by and looks at that
00:26:07.11\00:26:09.33
like, like that
anymore, so we just.
00:26:09.34\00:26:11.60
We need to become
sensitive to what Christ
00:26:12.09\00:26:13.88
seem to have us to
be. Well, I hope that our,
00:26:13.89\00:26:16.10
that our viewers
have not mind to this
00:26:16.11\00:26:17.51
program because what
we are saying is that
00:26:17.52\00:26:19.47
that it's seem to
us that is son's sons.
00:26:19.48\00:26:23.14
Now, we haven't
talked about our men's
00:26:23.15\00:26:24.38
problems and, and I
apologize 'cause we've
00:26:24.39\00:26:26.39
got many in, in
the areas of modesty.
00:26:26.40\00:26:28.70
There is no doubt about that.
00:26:28.71\00:26:29.73
Do you know, one of
the first casualties
00:26:30.40\00:26:33.73
or one of the first
things that happened when,
00:26:33.74\00:26:36.03
our forefather,
grandma and grandpa Adam and
00:26:36.04\00:26:38.26
Eve sinned, was they
lose their cloth? Yeah.
00:26:38.27\00:26:40.42
Their clothes disappeared.
That is a point tonight.
00:26:40.82\00:26:42.34
And one of the
first things that that,
00:26:42.35\00:26:43.91
Jesus did in redemption was to
00:26:43.92\00:26:45.99
put the clothes back
on. And isn't it incredible
00:26:46.00\00:26:48.98
that in these last days this,
00:26:48.99\00:26:52.02
generation has an
obsession with taking
00:26:52.12\00:26:53.88
it's clothes off again.
It's like we're going back,
00:26:53.89\00:26:56.11
yes, in another word
this is in God's face
00:26:56.12\00:26:58.40
we're gonna take
our clothes off and so,
00:26:58.67\00:27:01.02
I think that as
Christian families with our
00:27:01.03\00:27:03.66
children and as
husbands and wives
00:27:03.67\00:27:05.37
how important it is
that we be on guard so that
00:27:05.71\00:27:08.65
we don't get drawn and deceived.
00:27:08.66\00:27:10.35
Well, I think this is
a subject that our homes
00:27:10.36\00:27:12.50
needed to been, that
needed to be discussed
00:27:12.51\00:27:15.80
in our homes, talk
our children, talk to each
00:27:15.81\00:27:17.72
other and kneel
down and pray with each
00:27:17.73\00:27:20.16
other to see, am I
really representing my Lord
00:27:20.17\00:27:24.13
the way I need to,
I need too, we need to
00:27:24.14\00:27:26.36
continue to all the
time. You know, we're gonna
00:27:26.37\00:27:28.60
go out with prayer,
we're gonna be praying
00:27:28.61\00:27:30.14
about this subject and
I want to invite you back
00:27:30.15\00:27:33.29
with us again.
We're going to be covering
00:27:34.09\00:27:35.45
more things on
Thinking about Home.
00:27:35.46\00:27:37.44
Pray for us. We're
gonna praying for you
00:27:38.11\00:27:39.65
and Karen I wish you would
00:27:39.66\00:27:41.24
pray for us as we go out now.
00:27:41.25\00:27:42.81
Heavenly Father,
Lord, we come before your
00:27:44.06\00:27:46.10
gracious and loving
throne and we just pray
00:27:46.11\00:27:49.59
for ourselves and all
out there that Lord you
00:27:49.60\00:27:52.91
would just please. Be
with our minds and our
00:27:52.92\00:27:55.79
hearts. Help us to
understand what you
00:27:55.80\00:27:57.78
would have us do, the things.
00:27:57.79\00:27:58.85