Welcome to Thinking About Home.
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I'm Kathy Matthews,
and as always I'm glad
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that you've joined
us. We're going to have
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our guest with us
that's someone that you've
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been seeing regularly,
but this is still a new
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program and we
don't want you to miss it.
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This is Pastor
Dick O'Ffill from the
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Florida Conference of
Seventh-day Adventist.
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And I call you
pastor because I'm just used
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to saying that.
No that's all right,
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that's okay. Whether it's though
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you don't have a
Church, do you? No I,
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I work for the
Florida Conference I,
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in the, in the
Headquarters Office
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and so my Ministry
takes me all over the
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State of Florida,
there are 200 churches.
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And so, I work in
the area of Health
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and Temperance. And what we call
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Adult Ministries,
I also and the leader
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of Men's
Ministry. Men's Ministry.
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Did you notice how I
got a kind of assertive
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when I said that Men's Ministry?
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You're taking over, aren't you?
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And you know my
joke about the fact that
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the women have their retreats.
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But men have their
ministries. Conventions.
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Oh! Yes. But we're so
thankful that there is
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Women's Ministries.
And I think that that
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when we have Men's
Ministries then we're
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talking about the
family and that's what this
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program is about
this and about the family.
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It is, it is and
we've been discussing a book
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that I read of yours
that I felt was so close
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to my heart and
that's "Lord Keep Your
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Mansions, Just
Save My Children." Yes.
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Ah! I've, I was
fascinated with the
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title and of course
we've discussed a little
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bit about that, about
that but. Well, remember
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you asked me you said
Dick, isn't that a little
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sacrilegious? Yes,
reverence sacrilegious
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something like that.
Isn't that, isn't that
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revenant? And I explained to you
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that it's a kind of a
hard cry, right, that we
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don't so much need
mansions, the eternal
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life that goes with it
of course, but that we're
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saying God the most
important thing to us
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is our children.
Yes. You gave our children
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to us here and we
want you to save them, so
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that we can be
together there. That's why I
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invited you back that
you. Well I'm glad to be
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back and. You've got
lots to say about this.
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Of course I, I wish
I could say, Kathy I
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wish I could say
I've four children and
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they're grandchildren
I can say that. I wish I
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could say that it's
been wonderful, but it hasn't
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been wonderful. I'm
thankful that I've been
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a parent, I want to be
remembered as a parent,
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but there been
some terrible times. In
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another program I
talk about watching my son,
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you remember are
doing crack? Yes. And, and
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I haven't mentioned
it yet and, and maybe I
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will a little later
about, how we raised
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a granddaughter for
5 years? Yes, now you
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haven't said
anything about that yet. Well,
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we'll do that maybe
in another program, but
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when a, a
grandparent talks about raising
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grandchildren, yes,
it's a sad story that goes
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with that. But anyway
my heart cry is that oh!
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God save my
children and my grandchildren
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inspite of me. And
remember we've talked
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about some of the
feelings we have as
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parents about, are
we, are we guilty, are
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we to blame? Right.
What are we gonna do
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with our anger, our
resentments. Right, yes.
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Some of these
things that come. Are we
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responsible for what
they are? Who's accountable?
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Yeah, who is gonna
be you know, am I to be
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blamed? Well,
undoubtedly I raised them, but
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the fact that our
son would began to take
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drugs, was that my fault
or was that his decision.
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And I really feel that
in order to be able to be
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able to Minister to
our children, we must not
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observe ourselves. We
must be responsible for,
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our part, for our
part, yes, but we can't be
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responsible for the
whole thing. Right. And
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you remember in the
other program we talked
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about detachment.
Yes. It's a situation where
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we get to the place
where when our children
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were up, were up,
but when they're down
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we're still up. What,
right, oh! Yes. And you
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know what I'm saying
because if our lives are
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gonna be like this,
which is like their lives
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or if their lives
are like this and my
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life is like that, how
can I help so? You can't
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Minister to them. Oh!
And so, how can I pray that
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God will help me in
these uncertain you know,
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lives of these
young people to begin to
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stabilize and to be
able to get things kind
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of in order? In this
program we're gonna talk
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about, power struggle,
who is in charge? Yeah,
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okay. You know about
you know power struggles
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that we have and,
and I said you before the
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program you remember I
said, no when I'm talking
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about being a granddad
I don't think I'm talking
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about you yet. No. But
if I'm talking about power
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struggles, right,
you've a couple of daughters.
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I, I understand. And
from the time they're
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teens and maybe
even way down below that
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I was telling one of
those staff here at 3ABN
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who is expecting a
baby, and I said, you know we
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think of children as
being innocent. You know
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the little innocent
baby and I was talking with
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a father who had a
two year-old baby and that
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he said, one day
that little boy was in the
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highchair, yes, and
he had a bowl of cereal
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in front of him, 2
years old. He says that little
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boy looked me in the
eye and started pushing
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that cereal pull of
the edge. I mean innocent
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right see, but
there's that little struggle
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that starts I think
from the very. Oh! Yes.
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From the very early
stage. Oh! I think it's
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much; yes it's much
further down than two
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years before the age
of one you can see them.
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They're, they're
little personalities, if you,
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yes, if you'll
look further, if you
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understand what you're
looking for? I think we
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need to understand
and not make them, oh! How
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can I say this? Too
innocent. We need to
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understand our
selfish natures. I think we do
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and as parents
we're trying to steer them
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away from that. Yes.
And of course I think
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in our programs
we're trying to say that if
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we're going to steer
our children in the right
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direction, we have
to be kind of you know,
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sort of steady as she
goes ourselves, steady
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alright, and that's
not easy because you know;
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we want parents before,
in other words you can't
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get experience being
a parent when you, until
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it's all of the job
training. Right, right.
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And I don't know, if you've ever
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considered it, but
no two children, no two
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children are born
into the same family. Have
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you ever thought
about that? I heard you say
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that and I got to
thinking about it and I
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did finally
understand it after reading some
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of your book, but.
but see Sarah was born
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to Kathy and Tom,
right, who have no children.
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Right. But then Rachel
is born, Rachel is born
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with the older sister.
With an older sister and
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parents a little you
know, further to several
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years later. Right.
And so, we're not in the
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same family, so now
all that is one family.
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Each one of us is
different and we've
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coming in a
different time. So, isn't it a
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different dynamic?
Well, anyway that the power
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struggle that we have
and as the children get
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a little older this
people actually begin to
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manifest itself. I
had, had did I say, one
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of my children was a
strong real child you
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know, you've heard
Dorsey talking about
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that this normal
child. Yes and many others.
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I can tell you that
when I would set punish her
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for something. I
end up crying. She would
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be sitting, this
little girl is sitting just as
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you know, this right
side and I've cried you see.
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She was just you
know, infact she's told me
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since then. She's
40 years old. She said
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daddy I just you
know I just dug in and I'm
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crying and say and
you've that, and then,
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in some of them, and
then in another child,
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might be other
different sense of nature, it
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totally would say daddy
I love you, I love you and
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you can't be
disappointing very very
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much or very hard to
the child, who is saying
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daddy I love you, I
love you and for the other
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one is going like
this. Yes, it's a different
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dynamic. But anyway
I've been telling you
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about my younger
son, who I love so much
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and who is the father
of three children. And
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he loves me and he is
the one that said daddy I
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wasn't your fault. It
was me. I was selfish.
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And he was the one
who was into the drugs,
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and the alcoholism and
so forth and it was like he
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was dead, it was like
the little boy that I knew.
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He was gone and he
was just big, handsome
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muscle man but he
taking drugs and he is living
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a completely
different life, and but anyway I
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tell you a story. I
don't when this happened in
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the stream of things
because it all kind of
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blurs out that's
not important. Right.
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You know some
people say when they get to
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heaven they want to
ask David about this and
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Daniel about that, I
think I want to forget
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it. I don't think I
want to do that glad thing
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anymore, that's
too gruesome and maybe
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that's what it means
when it says that the
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former things will
not enter into mind. Yes.
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If it's that's the
past now. Why bring it up
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again? And so
therefore when I tell you these
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little stories, I
don't mull on these stories.
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These stories are
reality. They really
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happened to Betty
and me but I don't think
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about them because
we've got a persona
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toward the mark of the
high calling of God and
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Christ Jesus. Yes. But
for the sake of helping
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somebody else to
understand. Or because
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we're supposed to
comfort each other because
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though I can tell a
story of healing, how
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God healed my boy,
there are others who are right
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now as they watch
this program right in
00:09:50.70\00:09:52.60
the middle of it and
they're just been torn
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by it. So I'm here to
say there's hope. Amen.
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There's hope. Well,
I'm glad to that and did
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I retake this corny,
this is corny. You know
00:09:59.99\00:10:02.67
I do this once in awhile,
this corny little things,
00:10:02.68\00:10:03.65
this person who said,
I feel so much better now
00:10:03.66\00:10:07.52
they've given up
hope. Oh, now I shouldn't
00:10:07.53\00:10:12.79
even say that but
again you will hear me say
00:10:12.80\00:10:15.85
sometimes, sometimes
we have to laugh because
00:10:15.86\00:10:19.76
when we laugh it means
there is hope. It's when
00:10:19.77\00:10:22.20
I stop laughing and I
just fall in on myself
00:10:22.21\00:10:25.98
and hope is gone.
And hope is gone you see.
00:10:25.99\00:10:28.34
So when we tell a
little story on ourselves
00:10:28.35\00:10:31.71
once in a while, it's
not because it's funny
00:10:31.72\00:10:34.16
because it really
isn't. No. But this because
00:10:34.17\00:10:36.75
we think that
there's something beyond it.
00:10:36.76\00:10:39.13
And that's what we
need. Yeah, we can't
00:10:39.14\00:10:41.61
give up hope but
anyway. I don't know
00:10:41.62\00:10:44.82
when it was, but he
was still living at home
00:10:44.83\00:10:46.83
and I told the four
children, two of them as
00:10:49.54\00:10:53.02
they were coming
up were neat as a pen,
00:10:53.03\00:10:55.97
I mean kept their rooms
really nice, two others,
00:10:55.98\00:11:00.71
aha, and you know
infact their room was kind
00:11:00.72\00:11:04.29
of like a boar's
nest, just like a pig pad.
00:11:04.30\00:11:08.87
Just a pig pad you
know. Now they did dressed
00:11:08.88\00:11:12.50
that way and you
know I don't know if our
00:11:12.51\00:11:14.17
viewers have had
this experience where
00:11:14.18\00:11:15.95
your teen or your
young just dressed, you
00:11:15.96\00:11:18.97
know just so fancy but
the room yuck you know.
00:11:18.98\00:11:22.14
How do they come
out of that? And they
00:11:22.15\00:11:25.98
go to that stage
they pull the shades you
00:11:25.99\00:11:28.20
know they put the
blanks up, when you open the
00:11:28.41\00:11:30.38
door the room is
dark, you know and it's got
00:11:30.39\00:11:32.58
all the stuff around
and then it's just, well
00:11:32.59\00:11:34.85
anyway I've this
little philosophy and that
00:11:34.86\00:11:39.01
is that my child's
room is not his, it's mine.
00:11:39.02\00:11:42.73
We could get into it,
like I did. Yes I know
00:11:43.75\00:11:45.61
yes. And Betty and
I were there. Well I'm
00:11:45.62\00:11:48.91
glad you're saying
that. Betty I were there
00:11:48.92\00:11:50.47
before they got
there and we're gonna
00:11:50.48\00:11:52.59
be there after
they're gone. They're welcome
00:11:52.60\00:11:54.90
members to the
family. Absolutely but anyway
00:11:54.91\00:11:59.11
we're kind. But we're
the family. We're kind of
00:11:59.12\00:12:01.57
loaning them their
rooms say. Yes. Well anyway
00:12:01.58\00:12:04.28
here are Daniel is
with all. We're giving a lot
00:12:04.29\00:12:06.89
of argument about
that but go ahead. No,
00:12:06.90\00:12:08.97
but I think that
this is gonna come up in
00:12:08.98\00:12:11.71
this program and that
is the issue of respect.
00:12:11.72\00:12:14.04
The issue of respect
but anyway the room was
00:12:14.05\00:12:17.63
a mess and so I
said to them, I said that
00:12:17.64\00:12:21.24
please clean the room
and of course we always
00:12:21.25\00:12:24.90
got along. So, we're not
talking about a five year
00:12:24.91\00:12:26.75
old or a ten year
old, are we? Oh no we're
00:12:26.76\00:12:29.07
talking about 18 year
old. When you're saying
00:12:29.08\00:12:30.05
this you're talking
about an 18 year old.
00:12:30.06\00:12:31.58
An 18 year old and so I
just say matter of fact,
00:12:31.59\00:12:33.54
Dan clean your room it
looks like a boy's nest.
00:12:33.55\00:12:35.68
You know it just and
it's by the way I don't like,
00:12:35.69\00:12:38.64
I believe in privacy
but you know when you.
00:12:38.65\00:12:41.93
When you've a house
were all the doors are
00:12:41.94\00:12:44.39
closed, you know
it shrinks the square
00:12:44.40\00:12:46.64
footage. Did you see I
live in a joint a house
00:12:46.65\00:12:49.58
but it seems like
this because everybody
00:12:49.80\00:12:51.04
is got the door
closed? So under normal
00:12:51.05\00:12:53.05
circumstances. It's
nice to have the doors open
00:12:53.06\00:12:55.18
and of course these
kids you know they live in
00:12:55.19\00:12:56.58
a boars nest close
the door. And they close
00:12:56.59\00:12:58.01
the door. So
anyway, anyway I said to him
00:12:58.02\00:13:04.72
clean your room and
of course being you know
00:13:04.73\00:13:07.19
a nice guy he said
all right. That's the good
00:13:07.20\00:13:10.42
news and hear the
bad news. He didn't do
00:13:10.43\00:13:12.72
that. Didn't clean his
room and so I didn't go
00:13:12.73\00:13:16.08
crazy or anything
and I just said the next
00:13:16.09\00:13:18.92
day, please clean
the room and he said, hey
00:13:18.93\00:13:23.59
daddy please do it.
And he said alright,
00:13:23.60\00:13:25.72
I said please
clean your room. Alright,
00:13:25.73\00:13:27.05
I'll do it and that's
the good news. Bad news
00:13:27.06\00:13:31.75
he still didn't clean
his room. And so now by the
00:13:31.76\00:13:34.97
third day it's getting
a little tight, I'm saying
00:13:34.98\00:13:39.20
honey I want you
to clean your room see
00:13:39.21\00:13:43.19
and now so now
that thing is beginning
00:13:43.20\00:13:44.83
to change before it
was about cleaning room.
00:13:44.84\00:13:47.01
Now we're getting
into who's in-charge here.
00:13:47.02\00:13:49.83
It's beginning to
be a power struggle and
00:13:49.84\00:13:53.14
then instead of
doping kind of relax now, I'm
00:13:53.15\00:13:55.51
getting a little
tight and you know when we
00:13:55.52\00:13:58.23
get tight the kids
get tighter, when the kids
00:13:58.24\00:13:59.97
get tighter we get
tighter and so. So the
00:13:59.98\00:14:01.51
situation is changing.
If the parents are happy,
00:14:01.52\00:14:04.69
ain't nobody happy. I
could have said that in
00:14:04.70\00:14:08.09
another way but I
didn't want to, you
00:14:08.10\00:14:09.54
probably heard. Well
I've seen this little signs.
00:14:09.55\00:14:11.17
Mom's not happy. If
mom's not happy nobody
00:14:11.18\00:14:12.29
is happy. Yeah,
right. So anyway I could see
00:14:12.30\00:14:15.56
then that we were
getting off to subject.
00:14:15.57\00:14:18.66
Yes. Where we're
getting into, who's in
00:14:18.67\00:14:20.19
charge here, a power
struggle. It just had
00:14:20.20\00:14:23.25
changed. They had
changed but then I thank
00:14:23.26\00:14:26.27
God you know I'm
just thankful to God's not
00:14:26.28\00:14:28.31
finished with this
yet. Amen I'm, I'm. Because
00:14:28.32\00:14:30.51
while I've a son who
I'm trying to raise is
00:14:30.52\00:14:33.96
I'm God's son, he's to
raise me. Right. Is that
00:14:33.97\00:14:35.98
the way to it. Yes,
yes. And I want to be
00:14:35.99\00:14:37.72
though a kind of a
son where you can say,
00:14:37.73\00:14:40.82
you know there's
that. Well done. And I'm not
00:14:40.83\00:14:42.84
finished with it
yet, I'm not finished
00:14:42.85\00:14:44.01
with him yet, I'm not
finished with him yet.
00:14:44.02\00:14:44.99
Oh. But he is my
beloved son and in whom
00:14:45.00\00:14:46.50
I'll please,
please coming along. He is
00:14:46.51\00:14:47.98
coming along, anyway
there I was and things
00:14:47.99\00:14:51.26
were getting
tighten. So I had to decide
00:14:51.27\00:14:53.18
them because I was
becoming a two time
00:14:53.19\00:14:55.14
looser. I still had
the messy room. Oh yes.
00:14:55.15\00:15:00.45
But now my
relationship with my boys
00:15:00.46\00:15:02.70
going bad. What am I
going to do? And you'd
00:15:02.71\00:15:05.89
already has these other
background issues right?
00:15:05.90\00:15:07.73
Well of course
because you know that's all.
00:15:07.74\00:15:09.35
Things that we already
talked. That's all part
00:15:09.36\00:15:11.05
of the problem. Well
this is not just about
00:15:11.06\00:15:13.35
cleaning the room.
Well no hardly. It's more
00:15:13.36\00:15:16.16
serious so but I had
to make a decision in
00:15:16.17\00:15:18.44
and I had to
decide whether I was going
00:15:18.45\00:15:21.19
to have a messy
room and then have
00:15:21.20\00:15:23.02
my relationship with
my boy really go bad.
00:15:23.03\00:15:25.20
Then I lost
everything, so you know what I
00:15:26.93\00:15:29.32
decided to do? I
decided. You go there. I would
00:15:29.33\00:15:32.77
clean the room, now I
know some people could
00:15:32.78\00:15:35.50
say. Well you just
lost; you lost your influence,
00:15:35.51\00:15:38.59
that shows that you're
not in charge. You know
00:15:38.60\00:15:41.52
sometimes you've, if
you're going to win the
00:15:41.53\00:15:43.32
war. You've to loose
the battle once in a while
00:15:43.33\00:15:46.32
and so I lost that
battle and so I went and clean
00:15:46.33\00:15:49.99
the room. And so he
comes home, his room is all
00:15:50.00\00:15:52.93
clean. I didn't say
anything, I just cleaned
00:15:52.94\00:15:55.64
the room. I thought
that at least, at least
00:15:55.65\00:15:57.30
the door was open
and you know it wasn't
00:15:57.31\00:15:58.89
a public health
hazard. Obviously this was
00:15:58.90\00:16:00.71
very meaningful to
you to do that. Well of
00:16:00.72\00:16:02.41
course. To get that
done. Well of course doesn't
00:16:02.42\00:16:04.05
the scripture says
something about the
00:16:04.06\00:16:05.45
greatest among you is
gonna have to be servant
00:16:05.46\00:16:07.75
like. And anyway I
cleaned the room and I
00:16:07.76\00:16:12.38
think cleaned it
two days guess what?
00:16:12.39\00:16:15.32
The third day I went
in to clean it, he had
00:16:15.33\00:16:17.67
cleaned it and I
don't if he cleaned
00:16:17.68\00:16:21.56
it two days in a row
maybe I had to clean it
00:16:21.57\00:16:23.21
again but what
happened was he began
00:16:23.22\00:16:25.68
to clean it. So
we weren't struggling
00:16:25.69\00:16:28.45
to see who is in
charge now in other words
00:16:28.46\00:16:30.44
my leadership was
not by, was not by,
00:16:30.45\00:16:32.52
you throwing my
weight around, right.
00:16:32.53\00:16:34.20
But I was doing
the example now Maybe
00:16:34.21\00:16:37.46
that wouldn't always
work but what if he have
00:16:37.47\00:16:40.06
never cleaned his
room. At least I was still
00:16:40.07\00:16:43.92
talking with him at
least we still had a
00:16:43.93\00:16:46.21
relationship. I
would have been humiliated
00:16:46.22\00:16:48.29
because I'm cleaning
the room but I wouldn't
00:16:48.30\00:16:50.01
have that in my head
all the time. Which one
00:16:50.02\00:16:52.03
enabling in him,
enabling him. Well I was
00:16:52.04\00:16:54.96
just. Just go ahead
and take advantage of it.
00:16:54.97\00:16:55.96
I think you know
what because you see I
00:16:55.97\00:16:57.52
was making the
choice. I was in control
00:16:57.53\00:16:59.50
because I was
having to choose between
00:16:59.51\00:17:02.17
whether I was
gonna have the messy room
00:17:02.18\00:17:03.55
or loose my ability
to communicate. And see
00:17:03.56\00:17:08.87
I think sometimes
we have to, we have to
00:17:08.88\00:17:11.32
decide which of
these evils are we gonna
00:17:11.33\00:17:13.86
choose. Right.
Because ideally he would have
00:17:13.87\00:17:16.28
obeyed me and every
thing would have been
00:17:16.29\00:17:18.11
cool isn't it. Because
of all the other background
00:17:18.12\00:17:20.12
you wanted to keep
that communication open.
00:17:20.13\00:17:21.86
I want to keep it
open. And so I, so I think
00:17:21.87\00:17:25.39
that this is
important that we know when
00:17:25.40\00:17:28.88
to stay and when to
fall back, other words we
00:17:28.89\00:17:31.19
shouldn't fight it
every bridge. There's another
00:17:31.20\00:17:34.18
issue that comes up
in with having teens
00:17:34.19\00:17:38.54
and young people
and that's the issue of
00:17:38.55\00:17:41.70
respect. In my home,
I didn't make a big deal
00:17:41.71\00:17:49.06
about music for
example but music is a
00:17:49.07\00:17:52.13
little bit like
smoking but you probably didn't
00:17:52.14\00:17:56.22
at that time have
the kind of music that
00:17:56.23\00:17:58.17
we're dealing with
right now. Well remember
00:17:58.18\00:18:00.24
in every age has it's
music. Well, yes that's
00:18:00.25\00:18:02.18
true. It means we
didn't have rap music but we
00:18:02.19\00:18:04.50
had so called, but
I'll tell you what I did and
00:18:04.51\00:18:07.16
others may not agree
it and I might say to our
00:18:07.17\00:18:10.50
viewing audience that
my own story is not the
00:18:10.51\00:18:13.87
ideal story. It's
not the book story, it's
00:18:13.88\00:18:16.47
a story. That's what
you did. And it's what I
00:18:16.48\00:18:19.65
did and it might not
have been the best way
00:18:19.66\00:18:21.57
to do it but anyway.
You know I didn't say to
00:18:21.58\00:18:24.81
my children for
example you can't listen to
00:18:24.82\00:18:27.28
what ever kind of
music is your special music.
00:18:27.29\00:18:29.50
But if you're gonna
listento it that way
00:18:29.51\00:18:32.72
because music is
not the environment in
00:18:32.73\00:18:34.65
usual put on the ear
phones. I don't want to
00:18:34.66\00:18:37.03
hear it. Put on in
ear phones, I don't think
00:18:37.04\00:18:39.35
we had any trouble
on music but where we
00:18:39.36\00:18:42.07
did have a little
crisis one time was when one
00:18:42.08\00:18:45.73
of my children came
home with their living
00:18:45.74\00:18:48.23
boyfriend. We're
talking about from a long way
00:18:48.24\00:18:52.05
away; we're talking
about where you would have
00:18:52.06\00:18:54.32
to stay with mom
and dad. And so Betty
00:18:54.33\00:18:58.28
and I had to discuss
among our selves. Were
00:18:58.29\00:19:01.08
we going to let our
child a sleep with her living
00:19:01.09\00:19:05.96
boyfriend? Now
it's interesting that I
00:19:05.97\00:19:08.60
should mention that
now because just last week
00:19:08.61\00:19:10.88
a parent came to me
and said, what would you
00:19:10.89\00:19:13.74
do if your kids came
to visit you and there's
00:19:13.75\00:19:17.40
a living boyfriend or
girlfriend, would you let
00:19:17.41\00:19:19.44
them sleep together?
Well I know what I'd do.
00:19:19.45\00:19:23.28
I said to them,
I've been through that.
00:19:23.29\00:19:25.47
And we said no,
because you see here's the way
00:19:25.48\00:19:30.94
I see it, that
though our children may not
00:19:30.95\00:19:34.80
agree with our
lifestyle. In other words they
00:19:34.81\00:19:36.75
may get to the
place where they're gonna
00:19:36.76\00:19:39.09
do another
lifestyle, but I think it's only
00:19:39.10\00:19:41.99
fair that they respect
ours. Well that would be
00:19:42.00\00:19:44.77
only fair, yes.
And I said to one of my
00:19:44.78\00:19:46.87
children one
time because. They're
00:19:46.88\00:19:48.74
not always think of
it. Well, and that's the
00:19:48.75\00:19:50.16
point she was kind
of caring on, well mom
00:19:50.17\00:19:52.30
this, mom this, mom
thing and I said honey I said
00:19:52.31\00:19:54.41
you feel the way
you feel about things,
00:19:54.42\00:19:56.91
can't mom feel the
way she feels? And she
00:19:56.92\00:20:00.21
thought a minute on
the phone she says I never
00:20:00.22\00:20:02.34
thought of it
before. And so I think it's
00:20:02.35\00:20:05.45
important than that
respect is a two way
00:20:05.46\00:20:07.93
street that if my
child wants me to respect
00:20:07.94\00:20:11.38
their convictions
whatever they are. Then
00:20:11.39\00:20:14.97
I can stand up and
say you know your mother
00:20:14.98\00:20:16.62
and I've our other
convictions and we're
00:20:16.63\00:20:18.39
not gonna force this
on you, but we have to
00:20:18.40\00:20:21.21
respect each other and
so I can't say to my child
00:20:21.22\00:20:24.28
you can't listen to
rock music or I can't
00:20:24.29\00:20:27.45
say you can't move in
with your living. When
00:20:27.46\00:20:29.68
you say respect,
you don't mean accept
00:20:29.69\00:20:32.01
necessarily do you?
Well what can you do
00:20:32.02\00:20:34.02
about. Approve,
approve. No that doesn't mean
00:20:34.03\00:20:36.57
approve but that
means allow for that means
00:20:36.58\00:20:38.23
we're not going to
just be banging about it.
00:20:38.24\00:20:40.52
We're just gonna say,
you know we disagree all
00:20:40.53\00:20:42.62
this. You see I
think that in raising our
00:20:42.63\00:20:45.11
children that
we've got to understand
00:20:45.12\00:20:48.28
that we are weak at
pretty well make their
00:20:48.29\00:20:50.16
decisions including
their mould essential
00:20:50.17\00:20:51.93
for them as they
were young. There comes a
00:20:51.94\00:20:53.96
time in which you
can't do that anymore.
00:20:53.97\00:20:55.56
Do that any longer.
That they kind of transfer
00:20:55.57\00:20:57.53
and they have to buy
into it. Make it their
00:20:57.54\00:21:00.54
own. Make it their
own and now sometimes
00:21:00.55\00:21:03.17
they'll do it right.
You know let me tell you a
00:21:03.18\00:21:05.69
story what happened
to me. I was raised in
00:21:05.70\00:21:08.25
a Minister's home
and, and it wasn't, it
00:21:08.26\00:21:11.22
wasn't strict, but
it was very orthodox,
00:21:11.23\00:21:12.85
but I didn't
resented. Dad used to tear
00:21:12.86\00:21:15.48
up the funnies every
Sunday. He tear them put
00:21:15.49\00:21:17.22
them in the
garbage bag. I can remember
00:21:17.23\00:21:19.15
sometimes trying to
glue back took and so
00:21:19.16\00:21:20.82
forth but I don't
remember, I didn't
00:21:20.83\00:21:23.21
resented. Tom still
does that. I'm sorry. But
00:21:23.22\00:21:26.75
I didn't resented and
it was just part of life
00:21:26.76\00:21:28.87
but anyway when I
went to college I you
00:21:28.88\00:21:33.18
know I'm aware I'm
on my own now and I
00:21:33.19\00:21:35.88
can remember that I
began to think I wonder
00:21:35.89\00:21:38.24
how though rest of the
world lives. And I began
00:21:38.25\00:21:41.97
to fool around with
not heavy duty stuff;
00:21:41.98\00:21:45.15
I can remember it
eating my first hamburger,
00:21:45.16\00:21:47.47
I felt so powerful.
You know, but you what I
00:21:47.48\00:21:51.94
mean because it was
new. I was raised as a
00:21:51.95\00:21:53.67
vegetarian and I
think it began to. You had
00:21:53.68\00:21:57.29
more. I don't remember,
I think I was into fish
00:21:57.30\00:22:01.23
too but anyway I
think I began to feel this
00:22:01.24\00:22:04.66
pressure and how
does the other half live
00:22:04.67\00:22:07.16
and particularly what
I've problems on Friday
00:22:07.17\00:22:10.52
night. On Friday
night I wanted to leave the
00:22:10.53\00:22:13.72
church and go out and
find out what was going
00:22:13.73\00:22:16.05
on, so this was
building up I was studying for
00:22:16.06\00:22:18.93
the Ministry. I don't
remember how old I was
00:22:18.94\00:22:21.40
seventeen or eighteen,
I went to the Dean of Men,
00:22:21.41\00:22:24.03
Dean Lowen you know
huge guy and I walked
00:22:24.04\00:22:27.35
to and I said Dean
I'm fed up. I wanna go
00:22:27.36\00:22:31.22
out and see how the
rest of the world lives.
00:22:31.23\00:22:32.68
Now I thank God for
that guy, now you know
00:22:34.06\00:22:37.08
there are lots of
things he could have said.
00:22:37.09\00:22:38.28
He could have come
right above his chair,
00:22:38.29\00:22:39.78
he could have gone and
you know done anything.
00:22:39.79\00:22:42.01
Don't do that, you
can't do that, you better
00:22:42.02\00:22:43.91
not do that. He just
said, he said go ahead,
00:22:43.92\00:22:48.17
ha no I mean I
didn't say ha but I wasn't
00:22:49.99\00:22:53.37
expecting that. Well
I've to say though that
00:22:53.38\00:22:55.95
in that time in your
feelings for parental
00:22:55.96\00:22:59.67
and your respect for
your parents that the
00:22:59.68\00:23:03.72
mindset could have
been different for you than
00:23:03.73\00:23:05.70
lots of people
today, oh it could, it would
00:23:05.71\00:23:07.45
be dangerous almost to
just say okay go ahead.
00:23:07.46\00:23:09.12
Well and you're
probably right but at that time
00:23:09.13\00:23:11.89
of my life and
every time has it's God's
00:23:11.90\00:23:16.33
interventions. And
you know when he said to
00:23:16.34\00:23:19.06
me, go ahead I
turned around and walked
00:23:19.07\00:23:23.60
out and I talked to
myself. I don't think
00:23:23.61\00:23:26.42
I'll but you know
what he set me free,
00:23:26.52\00:23:29.92
see what he did and
as I looked back on it
00:23:29.93\00:23:32.40
now that I was
now buying into, see
00:23:32.41\00:23:35.80
suddenly I decided
I was about to have my
00:23:35.81\00:23:37.47
first cup of coffee.
I was getting all sighed
00:23:37.48\00:23:40.48
up for it and
suddenly, sounds ridiculous,
00:23:40.49\00:23:43.49
you know these are
the little things and
00:23:43.50\00:23:45.35
suddenly I
thought I don't need that.
00:23:45.36\00:23:46.85
You know if I told
somebody I drink coffee,
00:23:46.86\00:23:50.31
he'll look at me like
I'm crazy. I think it's
00:23:50.32\00:23:53.68
really you know
really more important to be
00:23:53.69\00:23:57.96
able to say I've
never drunk a cup of coffee,
00:23:57.97\00:23:59.73
I think that's
really more manly. So anyway
00:23:59.74\00:24:02.25
I'm exaggerating a
little, but, but I had
00:24:02.26\00:24:04.87
to be set free. I
had to be set free to
00:24:04.88\00:24:07.89
be a preset
because I couldn't be mom
00:24:07.90\00:24:11.00
and dad all my life.
And I think we as parents
00:24:11.01\00:24:14.25
a God's done this
us he gives us our free
00:24:14.26\00:24:19.14
will, he sets us free,
he doesn't. Now all though
00:24:19.15\00:24:22.23
he's got his will,
he can say what ever you
00:24:22.24\00:24:24.33
sow, you reap
we'll have to bear the
00:24:24.34\00:24:26.18
consequences of
our wrong decisions
00:24:26.19\00:24:27.76
I think we have to
get to the place where
00:24:27.77\00:24:30.82
we allow our
children. To become who they're
00:24:30.83\00:24:35.20
gonna be. Yes,
it's very hard to do.
00:24:35.21\00:24:37.49
Well it may not be
who we will expect them
00:24:37.50\00:24:40.09
to be but it's got
to be. It's frightening
00:24:40.10\00:24:42.72
to see it happen. Well
and we're taking a risk
00:24:42.73\00:24:45.54
but the minute that
God gives us our free will.
00:24:45.55\00:24:48.92
He took a huge risk
but isn't it our free will
00:24:48.93\00:24:54.04
that makes us a
person. You know human being
00:24:54.05\00:24:59.54
is we're not learn
instinct, they say that
00:24:59.55\00:25:02.31
human being has
only one or two instincts
00:25:02.32\00:25:04.92
these boy with.
Every thing else is about
00:25:04.93\00:25:07.30
learning. Choice. It's
about choice and so it's
00:25:07.31\00:25:11.14
pretty hard to set
steer to watch the teenager
00:25:11.15\00:25:15.84
begin to choose. Oh
we're not talking about
00:25:15.85\00:25:19.77
choosing when
they're three and four;
00:25:19.78\00:25:21.68
we're talking about
heavy duty choices as
00:25:21.69\00:25:25.10
we get older.
Except along the way, we're
00:25:25.11\00:25:28.33
giving them guidelines
for choices. Well yes,
00:25:28.34\00:25:30.25
yes. And now I'm not
saying, well that's our
00:25:30.26\00:25:32.95
duty. Well you know
some people say that we
00:25:32.96\00:25:35.51
should reason with
our children when they're
00:25:35.52\00:25:37.18
little tiny people,
but there's a problem with
00:25:37.19\00:25:39.19
that because if.
Certainly it is. If the
00:25:39.20\00:25:40.43
child has to ask
daddy why, why, why, I loose
00:25:40.44\00:25:43.54
authority. I become
accountable with child.
00:25:43.55\00:25:45.24
Well there is
more than one reason to
00:25:45.25\00:25:47.58
ask why. I mean there
is the why of curiosity.
00:25:47.59\00:25:50.53
That's right. There
is the sign that you know
00:25:50.54\00:25:52.26
the why of
comprehension and then
00:25:52.27\00:25:54.01
there is why of
challenge. Yeah a
00:25:54.02\00:25:55.29
challenge. And
that's the one you're
00:25:55.30\00:25:56.27
talking about. And
that's the one I am
00:25:56.32\00:25:57.29
taking about. So I
thank God that He allowed me
00:25:57.30\00:26:01.86
to pass through
that point and that there
00:26:01.87\00:26:04.34
was the Dean of
men who maybe he didn't
00:26:04.35\00:26:06.19
say the right thing
but at least, that's what
00:26:06.20\00:26:08.85
I needed to hear and
you know what I've even
00:26:08.86\00:26:12.09
done it and maybe
we could as the program
00:26:12.10\00:26:14.32
comes to a close, we
can threw this thought
00:26:14.33\00:26:16.77
out. I cannot
impose my morals on my
00:26:16.78\00:26:18.98
grandchildren. But
sometimes, somewhere
00:26:18.99\00:26:23.26
along the line, I
learned that I can say to my
00:26:23.27\00:26:25.47
son's and
daughters, honey you may see at
00:26:25.48\00:26:27.73
a different way
but when you're around
00:26:27.74\00:26:30.15
mommy and daddy. I
know you love us. Right.
00:26:30.16\00:26:33.19
So when you're around
us let's do it this way
00:26:33.20\00:26:35.82
and you see though
their relation with God
00:26:35.83\00:26:38.16
may not be real
tight at that moment,
00:26:38.17\00:26:40.19
the relationship
with me is one of respect.
00:26:40.88\00:26:42.84
So I don't have to
call. Well if you do that you
00:26:42.85\00:26:45.46
don't love Jesus.
No I know you love me.
00:26:45.47\00:26:48.39
So I'm gonna call on
you to respect me and
00:26:48.40\00:26:51.33
to go along with
what I'm suggesting when
00:26:51.34\00:26:53.97
you're with me. Right
and that can even help
00:26:53.98\00:26:55.67
them to come along
to might be choose later
00:26:55.68\00:26:58.58
if they begin to
respect yours. Yeah I think
00:26:58.59\00:27:00.99
it's necessary. Yeah,
well our time is already
00:27:01.00\00:27:04.07
out. It's already
on, it's gone so fast.
00:27:04.08\00:27:05.62
It does I need to just
talk to you about coming
00:27:05.63\00:27:10.14
back again. I know well
you're going to do that.
00:27:10.15\00:27:12.52
Yeah I'll do it. We
need to what's next title
00:27:12.53\00:27:14.99
do you know? I
don't remember. You don't
00:27:15.00\00:27:16.31
remember it? No but
I'll be back. We're gonna
00:27:16.32\00:27:19.71
have to, okay yeah. But
we'll continue in a story
00:27:19.72\00:27:20.71
about having
adult children and young
00:27:20.72\00:27:24.18
adults and what
if we as parents and
00:27:24.19\00:27:26.23
grandparents gonna
do about that. Okay,
00:27:26.24\00:27:27.71
alright. Well then
let's have prayer together
00:27:27.72\00:27:29.04
but before that I want
to invite you to come back
00:27:29.05\00:27:31.71
again and join us
on Thinking About Home.
00:27:31.72\00:27:34.85
Dick will you've
prayer with us. Heavenly
00:27:34.86\00:27:36.19
Father we're
thankful Lord that you've
00:27:36.20\00:27:38.31
given us the power
of choice and Lord it's
00:27:38.32\00:27:42.00
hard to see our
children make their choices
00:27:42.01\00:27:44.59
because often not
what we've chosen but help
00:27:44.60\00:27:47.81
us to be patient. Lord
as you're patient with us.
00:27:47.82\00:27:50.74
We're thankful that
you made us and that
00:27:50.75\00:27:54.81
we can be
parents, save our children
00:27:54.82\00:27:57.97
Lord in Jesus name. Amen
00:27:57.98\00:28:00.52