Welcome to Thinking About Home.
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I'm Kathy Matthews,
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and again I'm
thankful that you've joined us.
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Our guest today
is Richard O'Ffill
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from the Florida Conference of
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Seventh-day
Adventist. And we're just
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enjoying a
discussion on your book
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that you've written, and.
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"Lord Keep Your Mansions."
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Yes, that one.
And I just can't say
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enough how it's
touched me on the information
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that you have in
there and about your life.
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I, I guess, I'd have
to tell you that it's
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so much about my
life that because
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I'm very involved
emotionally with it.
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Yes. That when I
read that I cry again.
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Yes. And, and,
it maybe personal,
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we'll say when I,
you know I, right,
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that that's sounds
kind of weird of me.
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Right, and we're not
here promoting the book,
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but we're talking
about we want to promote
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or rather we'll
trying to get into
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and touch people's hearts.
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Because I think
we're all in the same boat.
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Yes, we are. I,
I, I think that that,
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that when I ask
my son permission
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to do this book,
obviously it's you know,
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it's kind of explicit,
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I'm talking about my son. Right.
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And, and, and,
and that's not some
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far away place
that's, that's right here.
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But it's because you're running
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into these
things wherever you go.
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I think we're
all in the same boat.
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Yeah. I, I, I, heard
a long ago someone says,
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I'm not gonna
laugh when you are in,
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end of the boat goes because I'm
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in the other end. Yeah, right.
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And, and I think
that in a very real way
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we're all in the
same boat, right,
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life is about our families and,
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and with everyday that passes,
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we're having more-and-more,
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we're taking more-and
more hits in our families.
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I, I think Kathy
that there was a time in
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which, in which we
were somewhat protected
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you know this
society itself had norms and
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standards and, and
of course the school
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and the church.
And, and so you know,
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we had lots of a fort,
lots of wall out there,
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but those who
are all down now and
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it seems like there's
nothing sacred anymore.
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And, and, and the
devils darts are coming right
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into our homes. Now,
I know we have these,
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these safety systems you know,
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you see a sign in the yard
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that says
protected. Yeah, right.
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And if you try to breaking them
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in my house it'll,
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it's going to
ring a bell, right,
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but the devils breaking in.
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And we're letting
it. And I'm afraid so.
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And you know, he's coming in
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through locked doors
and bar windows, right,
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but he's getting
in and he's knock down
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through the
chimney. We could get into
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discussions of how that is?
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But, but I think
the, the point that we
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wanted to make
it will, you know,
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it was out of the prayer. Lord,
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keep your mansions,
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we're not saying
that we don't want
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to go to
Heaven. I have not seen,
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or heard or
entered into the hearts of
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men and women the things that
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God's prepared for
those who love Him,
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but we want our
children to be with us.
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Now you, you, you
could get into the
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big discussions
where we live together
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as families and
we're gonna be married
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in Heaven and all,
this is not about that.
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The fact is that God used Betty
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and me to create
our children. Right.
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Those are His children.
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And He wants His
children saved. Amen.
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He is not willing
that any should perish,
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but that all
should come to repentance.
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And here I as a
minister of the Gospel and,
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and all of us
because I know you're a
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soul winner you know we say,
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well we must reach there,
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the foreign fields
of, no of course we must.
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But first. But
what about our children?
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Right, right. And I don't,
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I don't know, if
I should say this,
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but you know the hardest place
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of all to be a Christian.
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Is in the home. Is in the home.
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See, I can go out
and preach like crazy
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and sometimes I
used the illustration
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that when I preach
in my families there,
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I don't want them as they listen
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to be thinking He's
not like that. Right.
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Why doesn't He
tell it like it really,
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like, like, like He really is.
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I want them to
say in their hearts,
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He's like that,
that's the way He is.
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Yeah, that's right,
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that the light of your heart.
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Because it's easy. You know,
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put on your suit
and stand up and say,
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we ought to love one
and other and be kind.
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Then what if your
wife or your husband
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is sitting back there saying,
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wouldn't you shut your mouth?
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You know, why don't you practice
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what you preach? Right. Now I,
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I'm not perfect,
but I wish I was.
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Yes. I don't
always do things right,
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but I wish I did, I
have idea like you do. Yes.
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But the fact is, we
did the best we could
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and for many of us it
didn't turn out right,
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if I were to, if we were to say,
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Dick you know,
are all your kids are
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ministers and
Bible workers? No, no.
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Divorce has
ravaged our, our children
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you knows and,
and we have to drug
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addiction and alcoholism.
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And you know in,
in other programs
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we've discussed
these things. Are you,
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are you and I to
blame for the choices
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our children
make? We talked about
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that too. Shall I hide this
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and tell nobody?
I know and if you're
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answering the
second question first,
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I think we ought to share
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each other's
burdens. I'm not afraid.
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That's not to say going around
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announcing
them. No, no but, but,
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but, but, or
airing your dirty laundry.
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But I've not
gone into all of the
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gruesome details. Right.
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I'm not saying and I said,
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this and he said that and,
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and then we did
this and we did that,
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but I'm saying that
I know what it's like
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to have a son
who is an alcoholic,
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addicted to drugs.
I know what it's like
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to have a prodigal son;
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I know what it's
like to have a divorce,
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to see broken homes.
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And I don't think
I'm alone. Right. And,
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and so and so,
rather than to say well,
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it should have
been, it should have been,
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it shouldn't have
been, it shouldn't have been.
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And beating your self to death.
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I'm gonna have to
say that's the way is.
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Now, what am I
gonna do about it?
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What am gonna do about it?
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I can't be young
again, look at my hair,
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I can't be brown haired again,
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I'm gonna be white.
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Were you a brown
haired? I'm sorry.
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You thought I was born this way.
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Oh! So, I'm sorry,
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should the changes come?
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No, I can't be
brown haired again,
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I can't be 35 again, but I,
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I've got to be a, a, a
grandfather and a father
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at this time of my
life. And keep learning.
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And keep learning,
and keep going forward,
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anyway. How do we
accept the acceptable?
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Well, anyway
that's gonna be the theme
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of our, of our talk today. And,
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and I have to begin
it by telling a story.
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One day, I was in, in
a restaurant with my son
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and I might as
well say his name,
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my son Dan, I
named him after my dad.
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I'm Richard Wesley and,
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and my dad is Daniel Wesley,
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and my son is Daniel
and he's got the Eldridge.
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Wife's name. My
wife's name tugged it.
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And so I, I'm
sitting there and this boy
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is out of the Church and
doing these crazy things.
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And your heart is breaking.
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And we're sitting
and having spaghetti.
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And he says to
me, dad why don't you
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just accept me the way I am?
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And you heard that before.
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In fact, they preach that.
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And I wanted to
say, are you kidding?
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In, in other
words, in other words son,
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you're taken dope,
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you're out of the Church.
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And I'm supposed to accept that.
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What did you said?
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I'll say that at
the end of the program.
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Really, you're not
going to share it a little.
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Anyway, I guess
this is the question.
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And, and that
is, how can we accept
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the unacceptable
without accepting
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the unacceptable? And,
and, and, and so maybe,
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maybe we could speak.
Without approving of it
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you mean? Now,
you're getting to it.
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In other words,
in, in other words,
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I'm not going to be satisfied,
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while my son is an
alcoholic drug addict
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out of the Church.
And so, if he is saying,
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you know just,
just get satisfied,
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just get used to
it. Oh! No, no, no God,
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I've got going
to, I'm going to pray,
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I'm going to pray
while I have life.
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Well, isn't that what the Lord
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would do Himself? Does He accept
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just that to
allow you to just stay
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that way or does
He, does He say no, no,
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I love you, but I'm not going to
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accept you this way,
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I'm going to help you?
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You're bringing up a,
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a very
interesting thing and, and,
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and, and, and I
think you and I ought
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to say here because
we, we talk lots and
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I suppose that
when we, when we watch a
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broadcast or we
hear people talk,
00:08:28.72\00:08:30.38
we can nickel-and
-dime it to death.
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And I hope when
they hear us talking
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about this subject they don't
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nickel-and-dime it to death,
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you know you could say,
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well Kathy you
said this or Pastor
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O'Ffill you said that.
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Oh! There's so
much we're not saying.
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I might have missed it,
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I may have missed it,
00:08:44.22\00:08:45.19
I may have used the
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right? But when, when,
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I lost my thought,
but I wanna tell you,
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I, I got it back. Okay.
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Because you're talking
about God accepting us.
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Yes. I use this illustration
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when the prodigal
son came back. Yes.
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We say that his
father accepted him,
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you've got to be kidding,
00:09:07.39\00:09:09.08
he smelled like a pig.
00:09:09.09\00:09:10.28
Well, what do you mean that
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that you've said that?
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No, not that
I've got it, you know,
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if I open this kind of words,
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he received
them, he received them.
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That would be a
better word to be used.
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Oh! Well, well see, see to me.
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Or actually that's
what said, isn't it?
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Well. You received
this? But see this generation,
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this modern
generation. Yes, yes.
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Keeps preaching acceptance,
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Jesus accepts us the
way we are, He accepts us.
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To me Kathy the word acceptance
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means leave me alone. Yes.
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Take me as I am.
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And I'm staying that way.
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Yes. Now, maybe that's
00:09:41.21\00:09:42.18
not what it really means,
00:09:42.19\00:09:43.80
but that's what
this crowd hears it is.
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Yes. You hear
what I'm going to do.
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Yes I do. And
so, that's why when,
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when I preach
about this issue I,
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I, I think the word acceptance
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is not the best
word because it means
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status quo, it means I'm
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gonna be this way. Right.
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Get used to it.
Jesus doesn't accept us,
00:09:57.14\00:10:01.82
He receives us. We come to Jesus
00:10:01.83\00:10:04.57
as we are 'cause there's
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no other way to come. You know,
00:10:05.62\00:10:06.59
it's like taking
Him, taking a shower.
00:10:06.60\00:10:07.71
Right. I have to
get into the shower
00:10:07.72\00:10:09.05
as I am, but you
don't stay that way,
00:10:09.06\00:10:11.88
if you're in the shower.
00:10:11.89\00:10:12.86
Right. So, you've got to come
00:10:12.87\00:10:14.00
to Jesus as you are,
00:10:14.01\00:10:15.69
but when you come to Him you
00:10:15.70\00:10:16.95
don't stay that way.
00:10:16.96\00:10:17.93
And so, that boy
comes out of that pig pin,
00:10:17.94\00:10:20.10
he comes home to his daddy,
00:10:20.11\00:10:22.80
his daddy gives him a bath,
00:10:22.81\00:10:25.60
puts a you know, you know,
00:10:25.61\00:10:26.92
and sometimes
just the way putting
00:10:26.93\00:10:28.12
jewelry on him. Well, that ring
00:10:28.13\00:10:29.74
was the checkbook.
00:10:29.75\00:10:31.33
Yes, I suppose so because that's
00:10:31.34\00:10:33.94
what he did, yes.
And so, in other words,
00:10:33.95\00:10:36.38
he gives them some money,
00:10:36.39\00:10:37.36
he puts new
clothes, he gives him a bath
00:10:37.37\00:10:39.56
and he celebrates it.
00:10:39.57\00:10:40.63
And so, and so that's how
00:10:40.64\00:10:43.68
I see the word.
00:10:43.69\00:10:44.66
And, and so,
receive my boy, I have to,
00:10:44.67\00:10:48.38
I had to recognize
that during that period,
00:10:48.39\00:10:51.48
I had a boy,
who is an alcoholic,
00:10:51.49\00:10:54.96
who took drugs
and who is a prodigal?
00:10:54.97\00:10:57.07
Was I to going? Accept him.
00:10:57.08\00:11:00.46
Be satisfied with
that. Yes. No. Or,
00:11:00.47\00:11:03.12
yeah or receive him that way.
00:11:03.13\00:11:05.25
Well here, here's
where we wanna go with this.
00:11:05.26\00:11:08.24
I think we need to in our minds
00:11:08.25\00:11:11.81
accept reality. And in a way
00:11:11.82\00:11:15.13
we need to kind
of detach ourselves.
00:11:15.14\00:11:17.96
Now, in the first program
00:11:17.97\00:11:20.60
that we did in this series, yes,
00:11:20.61\00:11:21.97
I told you how
I went to Al-Anon;
00:11:21.98\00:11:24.25
remember I told you about that.
00:11:24.26\00:11:26.00
And Al-Anon is for a,
00:11:26.01\00:11:28.42
the families of, of addicts.
00:11:28.43\00:11:31.34
They're there to learn to cope
00:11:31.35\00:11:33.26
with their
problems. And to learn
00:11:33.27\00:11:34.33
how to relate yourself.
00:11:34.34\00:11:35.53
And so, in other words you don't
00:11:35.54\00:11:36.86
go to Al-Anon to
talk about your boy
00:11:36.87\00:11:38.91
or your wife or your husband.
00:11:38.92\00:11:40.26
You go there how to learn,
00:11:40.27\00:11:41.71
how to survive with this, how,
00:11:41.72\00:11:43.26
how to get through it?
00:11:43.27\00:11:44.24
And one of the
most wonderful things
00:11:44.25\00:11:46.81
that I learned at Al-Anon was
00:11:46.82\00:11:48.26
what they called
detachment, detachment.
00:11:48.27\00:11:51.42
And I've even
sent people to Al-Anon
00:11:51.43\00:11:54.15
and for other
reasons maybe their
00:11:54.16\00:11:56.28
marriage is having trouble.
00:11:56.29\00:11:57.94
And I said, go
and get those people
00:11:57.95\00:12:00.26
to talk about detachment.
00:12:00.27\00:12:02.18
Because see what happens,
00:12:02.19\00:12:04.30
is when our loved ones get into
00:12:04.31\00:12:06.30
big trouble
because we're, we're,
00:12:06.31\00:12:09.12
we're, we're bound
to them emotionally,
00:12:09.13\00:12:11.17
because we love
them so much then,
00:12:11.18\00:12:13.07
then suddenly we catch,
00:12:13.08\00:12:14.50
you know it's
like we can catch a
00:12:14.51\00:12:15.48
cold from each other.
00:12:15.49\00:12:16.46
And so, we can actually catch
00:12:16.47\00:12:19.10
their diseases. In other words
00:12:19.11\00:12:20.34
here my son was
taking drugs and,
00:12:20.35\00:12:23.69
and drinking and all that.
00:12:23.70\00:12:24.67
And I told you how I lost it?
00:12:24.68\00:12:26.63
Right. I began to be emotionally
00:12:26.64\00:12:29.41
messed up. So,
you're not functioning
00:12:29.42\00:12:30.98
in such a way
that can be effective
00:12:30.99\00:12:32.36
for him. I think the word that
00:12:32.37\00:12:33.66
they used for
that is co-dependency.
00:12:33.67\00:12:36.08
Okay. In other words,
00:12:36.09\00:12:38.37
you wanna
describe or explain that.
00:12:38.38\00:12:39.92
Well, there maybe big
00:12:39.93\00:12:41.82
psychological explanations
00:12:41.83\00:12:43.39
for the word co-dependency but,
00:12:43.40\00:12:44.82
but I interpret it this way,
00:12:44.83\00:12:46.37
co-dependency means that when,
00:12:46.38\00:12:48.29
that that, that I'm related to
00:12:48.30\00:12:49.78
someone
emotionally in such a way,
00:12:49.79\00:12:51.39
when they're up, I'm up.
00:12:51.40\00:12:52.58
When they're having a good day,
00:12:52.59\00:12:53.92
I'm having a good day. Right.
00:12:53.93\00:12:55.26
When they're having a bad day,
00:12:55.27\00:12:56.53
I'm having a bad day.
00:12:56.54\00:12:57.51
So, we need to learn
00:12:57.52\00:12:58.49
how to be
you're saying that this
00:12:58.50\00:12:59.92
will help person to learn how
00:12:59.93\00:13:01.23
to be more
stable in their lives,
00:13:01.24\00:13:02.81
so that they can be helpful
00:13:02.82\00:13:04.24
when that's having a problem.
00:13:04.25\00:13:05.77
Well, I have to
detach from them.
00:13:05.78\00:13:07.07
Now, now this is the, and,
00:13:07.08\00:13:08.88
and why don't we go over some
00:13:08.89\00:13:09.86
of these points? Okay.
00:13:09.87\00:13:10.84
Because I
learned this in Al-Anon.
00:13:10.85\00:13:12.41
And, and, and I'm not sure that
00:13:12.42\00:13:14.27
that every thought
would be correct but,
00:13:14.28\00:13:16.45
but it's
something to think about.
00:13:16.46\00:13:17.87
And that is, if
I'm going to help
00:13:17.88\00:13:20.60
my son or my daughter
00:13:20.61\00:13:21.74
or my husband or
wife. In other words,
00:13:21.75\00:13:22.99
whatever problem that our,
00:13:23.00\00:13:24.27
our viewers might,
00:13:24.28\00:13:25.25
you know might be
having in their lives.
00:13:25.26\00:13:26.85
I have to detach from them.
00:13:26.86\00:13:29.16
Now, detach
doesn't mean I don't care.
00:13:29.17\00:13:31.74
And it doesn't,
oh! And it doesn't mean
00:13:31.75\00:13:33.93
you've severed a relationship.
00:13:33.94\00:13:35.38
No it, it, it doesn't mean
00:13:35.39\00:13:36.93
I don't love them, I don't care.
00:13:36.94\00:13:38.90
It means because I love them and
00:13:38.91\00:13:42.15
because I do care. I'm going to,
00:13:42.16\00:13:45.06
to separate
myself from that problem
00:13:45.07\00:13:47.51
in such a way to be
able to minister to it.
00:13:47.52\00:13:50.15
Amen, okay.
Good, good explanation.
00:13:50.16\00:13:52.72
Now, now I've heard that in the
00:13:52.73\00:13:54.65
medical
profession that the doctors
00:13:54.66\00:13:57.42
know a lot about
a particular problem
00:13:57.43\00:13:59.40
that they don't take care
00:13:59.41\00:14:01.87
of their own
family, in other words
00:14:01.88\00:14:03.34
surgeons don't
operate. Right, yes.
00:14:03.35\00:14:05.28
On their own
family members because
00:14:05.29\00:14:07.75
they're too involved.
00:14:07.76\00:14:08.77
Now, now, now you can do that,
00:14:08.78\00:14:10.82
if you're a
surgeon. I think they use,
00:14:10.83\00:14:11.90
they're not, they won't even
00:14:11.91\00:14:12.96
allow them to, when,
00:14:12.97\00:14:13.94
do they still do that?
00:14:13.95\00:14:14.98
Well, and listen
an ethical problem
00:14:14.99\00:14:16.28
might not, now
they might be there
00:14:16.29\00:14:17.56
or something
but, but the fact is
00:14:17.57\00:14:19.20
we are very much
emotionally tied,
00:14:19.21\00:14:22.59
right, with those we love.
00:14:22.60\00:14:23.57
And so, so, so
though a surgeon can get
00:14:23.58\00:14:25.77
someone else to operate on,
00:14:25.78\00:14:27.57
on his child or on his wife,
00:14:27.58\00:14:29.23
what can you do
if it's your boy?
00:14:29.24\00:14:31.95
And he's taking drugs;
00:14:31.96\00:14:33.62
you know you
can't say someone else
00:14:33.63\00:14:35.16
is going to have
to relate to him.
00:14:35.17\00:14:36.24
Right. Because I'm sorry,
00:14:36.25\00:14:37.87
I'm his father and someone else
00:14:37.88\00:14:40.14
can't be his father.
00:14:40.15\00:14:41.12
Well, a lot of people
will like to say that,
00:14:41.13\00:14:42.72
but we need to be fathers
00:14:42.73\00:14:44.36
at times like that,
00:14:44.37\00:14:45.34
so that. Especially at times
00:14:45.35\00:14:46.84
like that.
Especially at times like that.
00:14:46.85\00:14:47.82
But, but then if I'm
going to be able to be
00:14:47.83\00:14:50.03
that father I've
got to pull myself away
00:14:50.04\00:14:53.58
emotionally, so that I,
00:14:53.59\00:14:55.17
I'm not a part of that problem.
00:14:55.18\00:14:56.32
And, and, and, and
we talked about that
00:14:56.33\00:14:58.28
in another
program, if, if I'm loaded
00:14:58.29\00:15:00.51
with guilt and if I'm angry or
00:15:00.52\00:15:03.01
how can I help my son?
00:15:03.02\00:15:04.33
Because I'm taking
that personally because
00:15:04.34\00:15:06.36
you're doing this to me and
00:15:06.37\00:15:07.68
you can't do this to me. Right.
00:15:07.69\00:15:08.71
So, so this isn't
suddenly it's not about
00:15:08.72\00:15:10.68
my boy, it's about
me making me look good.
00:15:10.69\00:15:14.21
And, and I think that
in this whole experience
00:15:14.22\00:15:18.12
that I've had,
00:15:18.13\00:15:19.10
I've tried to soaked that out.
00:15:19.11\00:15:20.09
And, and again I would say,
00:15:20.10\00:15:21.75
maybe we haven't
done it just the way
00:15:21.76\00:15:23.10
it should been done, but,
00:15:23.11\00:15:24.11
but we've, we've survived and
00:15:24.12\00:15:25.87
we're still love Jesus. Right.
00:15:25.88\00:15:27.03
We're still married.
That something to say
00:15:27.04\00:15:30.00
right there,
isn't it? And now and,
00:15:30.01\00:15:31.62
and I say that Kathy because,
00:15:31.63\00:15:33.18
because there are
many cases in which,
00:15:33.19\00:15:36.60
they've lost their marriages,
00:15:36.61\00:15:37.58
there is a
trauma, there is trauma I,
00:15:37.59\00:15:39.25
I was on in
airplane not long ago
00:15:39.26\00:15:40.88
and the man next to me,
00:15:40.89\00:15:43.07
he told me that
one of his children,
00:15:43.08\00:15:46.07
the baby suffocated in the crib,
00:15:46.08\00:15:49.59
it broke his
marriage. In other words,
00:15:49.60\00:15:51.95
his wife couldn't handle it,
00:15:51.96\00:15:53.57
and so the marriage broke up.
00:15:53.58\00:15:54.87
And I know that there are cases
00:15:54.88\00:15:57.74
where the son up and the son
00:15:57.75\00:16:00.18
and the daughter is taking drugs
00:16:00.19\00:16:01.63
or in the some big problem.
00:16:01.64\00:16:02.81
Maybe, maybe the,
00:16:02.82\00:16:04.82
the wife will take
one position, right,
00:16:04.83\00:16:07.38
and husband takes
another. Yes. See,
00:16:07.39\00:16:09.65
and they work
against each other.
00:16:09.66\00:16:10.80
And they work against each other
00:16:10.81\00:16:11.78
and they find
themselves growing apart.
00:16:11.79\00:16:13.57
I'm so thankful to
God that through these
00:16:13.58\00:16:17.80
things with our, with our son
00:16:17.81\00:16:19.30
or with our
prodigal drug addicted son
00:16:19.31\00:16:21.62
and that we
grow closer together.
00:16:21.63\00:16:24.12
We grew closer together. Amen.
00:16:24.13\00:16:26.81
You know, Betty said one night
00:16:26.82\00:16:28.95
it must have been
and I didn't even know
00:16:28.96\00:16:30.50
what happened? Who knows it was
00:16:30.51\00:16:33.44
2 or 3 O'clock in the morning
00:16:33.45\00:16:34.68
and of course you
know mothers do that,
00:16:34.69\00:16:38.39
see I don't care
whether it's 18 or 38s,
00:16:38.40\00:16:41.52
in other words my boys out there
00:16:41.53\00:16:42.95
some place you see. And so,
00:16:42.96\00:16:44.91
she couldn't sleep at night.
00:16:44.92\00:16:46.05
And she said Dick,
00:16:46.06\00:16:48.31
she said one
night it must have been
00:16:48.32\00:16:49.50
2 or 3 in the
morning I heard the door open
00:16:49.51\00:16:51.65
and I heard him come in,
00:16:51.66\00:16:52.63
and I was filled with terror I,
00:16:52.64\00:16:54.92
you know, and this doesn't make
00:16:54.93\00:16:55.90
much sense to
say that, she said,
00:16:55.91\00:16:57.18
I was filled with terror,
00:16:57.19\00:16:58.43
but in that
minute I didn't I, I, I,
00:16:58.44\00:17:02.19
I pulled away from
it then because then it,
00:17:02.20\00:17:05.23
it continued nothing changed,
00:17:05.24\00:17:06.57
but someway I got
disengaged from it,
00:17:06.58\00:17:09.05
so that I could
watch it happen and
00:17:09.06\00:17:11.19
it wasn't just destroyed me.
00:17:11.20\00:17:13.50
And, and, and I
think that this is the,
00:17:13.51\00:17:16.06
this is what this
detachment is about.
00:17:16.07\00:17:18.69
Shall we go down
some of these points?
00:17:18.70\00:17:19.91
Oh! We're not talking about
00:17:19.92\00:17:20.89
hardening
ourselves. Oh! No, no, no, no
00:17:20.90\00:17:23.62
what we're doing
is putting ourselves
00:17:23.63\00:17:25.39
in the condition to
be able to love better.
00:17:25.40\00:17:27.09
Right. And let me go
back and say it again.
00:17:27.10\00:17:29.14
Should point to clear that up.
00:17:29.15\00:17:30.12
Let me say it again.
00:17:30.13\00:17:31.10
Or not becoming indifferent.
00:17:31.11\00:17:32.17
No, not becoming indifferent,
00:17:32.18\00:17:33.50
we're not loving less;
00:17:33.51\00:17:34.48
we're not going
and living our lives
00:17:34.49\00:17:36.10
somewhere else. Yes.
It's just now we are.
00:17:36.11\00:17:40.15
Actually you're becoming more
00:17:40.16\00:17:41.13
Christ like;
you're becoming really
00:17:41.14\00:17:42.67
involved like Christ is with us.
00:17:42.68\00:17:44.24
Right, but not
part of the problem
00:17:44.25\00:17:45.99
and that's very hard to do,
00:17:46.00\00:17:47.17
but anyway we learned in this,
00:17:47.18\00:17:48.94
in this business when we studied
00:17:48.95\00:17:50.93
about detachment.
Now, this first point
00:17:50.94\00:17:53.93
that they make in Al-Anon is,
00:17:53.94\00:17:55.52
is really hard,
hard to comprehend
00:17:55.53\00:17:57.22
and it says,
"Not to suffer because
00:17:57.23\00:17:59.23
of the actions or reactions of
00:17:59.24\00:18:00.87
other people." Now, when I,
00:18:00.88\00:18:03.18
you know when I look
at that it doesn't make
00:18:03.19\00:18:04.75
sense because I'm
suffering all the time.
00:18:04.76\00:18:06.94
Not to suffer. Not to suffer,
00:18:06.95\00:18:08.59
but I guess that, I
guess that it means let,
00:18:08.60\00:18:12.19
let, let me use a
real bad illustration
00:18:12.20\00:18:14.92
that if my, if my
child should choose
00:18:14.93\00:18:17.62
to be lost that I
don't choose to follow him.
00:18:17.63\00:18:21.56
Well, that's understandable
00:18:21.57\00:18:23.70
I mean I can, I can,
00:18:23.71\00:18:25.32
I can grasp better it that way.
00:18:25.33\00:18:27.44
That that though all suffer
00:18:27.45\00:18:29.02
short-term obviously,
I'm not gonna tie this
00:18:29.03\00:18:31.70
up in such a way,
where there long term
00:18:31.71\00:18:34.89
lost is my personal,
00:18:34.90\00:18:37.36
well if well then
I'm going to heaven,
00:18:37.37\00:18:39.69
I'm not going either,
00:18:39.70\00:18:41.07
because you know
this that even in my,
00:18:41.08\00:18:42.97
in my little prayer.
Well you, yeah the looked up.
00:18:42.98\00:18:45.38
I'm saying, if they don't
00:18:45.39\00:18:46.76
go to Heaven I'm not going.
00:18:46.77\00:18:47.87
You're not? I didn't say that,
00:18:47.88\00:18:50.15
but I'm saying
don't, don't worry about
00:18:50.16\00:18:52.48
the details that's
what I really want you see.
00:18:52.49\00:18:54.23
Oh! I see. You
see, you see Kathy.
00:18:54.24\00:18:56.02
I see, I see. You see
where I'm coming from?
00:18:56.03\00:18:57.21
Now, I know that Moses said if,
00:18:57.22\00:19:01.18
if you don't save the
children, right, right,
00:19:01.19\00:19:02.68
that's will take my
name out. That's right.
00:19:02.69\00:19:04.03
And that was wonderful but,
00:19:04.04\00:19:07.22
but I don't, I don't think, I,
00:19:07.23\00:19:09.44
I don't think
Jesus wants us to say,
00:19:09.45\00:19:12.26
if my children are not in Heaven
00:19:12.27\00:19:14.69
I don't want to be there.
00:19:14.70\00:19:15.89
No, I don't
think He does either.
00:19:15.90\00:19:16.87
Do you think that?
00:19:16.88\00:19:17.99
No, I don't
think He does either,
00:19:18.00\00:19:19.26
because, He wants us
to go on and be there.
00:19:19.27\00:19:22.32
Because He ultimately is our,
00:19:22.33\00:19:24.11
is our Heavenly parent.
00:19:24.12\00:19:25.20
Yes. That though I'm a parent
00:19:25.21\00:19:26.98
He still my Father
and He wants me to be
00:19:26.99\00:19:29.85
there as one of His
children whether there,
00:19:29.86\00:19:32.03
its sound this terrible whether
00:19:32.04\00:19:33.01
there are anybody
else there or not.
00:19:33.02\00:19:34.74
Right. So, that
through these crisis of the,
00:19:34.75\00:19:37.13
of a, of the salvation
of our children we must
00:19:37.14\00:19:40.82
recognize our
salvation, is that risk? Yes.
00:19:40.83\00:19:43.74
And, and we
must not trade it out
00:19:43.75\00:19:46.64
'cause Jesus died for us.
00:19:46.65\00:19:48.52
So, then from me to say,
00:19:48.53\00:19:50.19
if my children are not saved
00:19:50.20\00:19:51.71
I don't want to
be saved is an insult
00:19:51.72\00:19:53.83
to Jesus. Yes, I can say that.
00:19:53.84\00:19:55.76
And so, anyway
the next point was,
00:19:55.77\00:19:58.75
to not allow
ourselves to be used or
00:19:58.76\00:20:01.58
abused by others in the interest
00:20:01.59\00:20:04.03
of making them better. Enabling.
00:20:04.04\00:20:08.80
I think that's
what we're talking.
00:20:08.81\00:20:10.54
Okay. In other words,
00:20:10.55\00:20:12.07
I think that wives are what,
00:20:12.08\00:20:15.31
what, set the
children out of these,
00:20:15.32\00:20:16.81
but wives many
times feel that that,
00:20:16.82\00:20:19.94
that whatever
their husbands are doing,
00:20:19.95\00:20:21.40
let say an
alcoholic husband. Yes.
00:20:21.41\00:20:22.60
It's, it's their fault you see.
00:20:22.61\00:20:25.08
And that, if I was
only doing it right. Right.
00:20:25.09\00:20:28.71
Then they wouldn't be wrong.
00:20:28.72\00:20:30.50
And so, once
that dynamic sets up
00:20:30.51\00:20:35.48
the other person
becomes aware of it,
00:20:35.49\00:20:37.81
and they began to exploit.
00:20:37.82\00:20:39.62
And they can abuse it. You know,
00:20:39.63\00:20:41.54
my son said to me.
00:20:41.55\00:20:42.69
Our sinful self
shows in so many ways,
00:20:42.70\00:20:45.32
don't they? My
son said to me Kathy
00:20:45.33\00:20:47.45
after it was over, he said dad,
00:20:47.46\00:20:50.63
it was never
about you. Wow! He said,
00:20:50.64\00:20:54.14
I was selfish that's what I was.
00:20:54.15\00:20:56.16
I'm a selfish.
And you know I asked,
00:20:56.17\00:20:57.91
I, I'm glad you said that
00:20:57.92\00:20:59.16
I wanted you to, to share just
00:20:59.17\00:21:03.09
what he came up with
when it was all over,
00:21:03.10\00:21:05.52
so that people who
are in the middle of it
00:21:05.53\00:21:07.27
can realize they just you know,
00:21:07.28\00:21:10.87
that the
selfishness of our hearts
00:21:10.88\00:21:13.23
is playing out in their lives.
00:21:13.24\00:21:16.68
And for him to
recognize it after all
00:21:16.69\00:21:19.44
that he put you through,
00:21:19.45\00:21:20.42
and to say that to
you, it's helpful to me.
00:21:20.43\00:21:24.00
And it would be
helpful to others
00:21:24.01\00:21:25.61
I think to
understand the situation.
00:21:25.62\00:21:26.82
Well, ultimately sin
is about selfishness.
00:21:26.83\00:21:29.43
Yes. And, and,
and maybe we could say
00:21:29.44\00:21:31.97
that we can encourage each other
00:21:31.98\00:21:33.28
to be selfish, we can contribute
00:21:33.29\00:21:34.49
to selfishness, but the fact
00:21:34.50\00:21:36.61
that a person has
chosen a lifestyle
00:21:36.62\00:21:39.24
that is making
excuse expression,
00:21:39.25\00:21:41.31
hell for the rest of
the family is selfish,
00:21:41.32\00:21:44.54
it's just playing selfish.
00:21:44.55\00:21:46.60
Have I ever this a
little off the subject
00:21:46.61\00:21:48.60
health is really
about that I've come
00:21:48.61\00:21:52.66
to the conclusion
that I owe it to my wife
00:21:52.67\00:21:55.75
to be healthy because the day
00:21:55.76\00:21:58.07
I fall on the floor
where the stroke gets
00:21:58.08\00:22:00.63
his lives messed up. Right.
00:22:00.64\00:22:02.80
She has to push me
around, give me a bath.
00:22:02.81\00:22:04.64
Yes. One day, we
were at the grocery store
00:22:04.65\00:22:06.72
and she was wanting
to buy some chewing gum,
00:22:06.73\00:22:08.76
and I said is it sugarless?
00:22:08.77\00:22:11.32
She said no buy.
00:22:11.33\00:22:13.47
She said your
teeth belong to me.
00:22:13.48\00:22:14.92
I see. So, we
belong to each other,
00:22:14.93\00:22:18.59
we belong to each other. Right.
00:22:18.60\00:22:20.32
And obviously what we
do affects each other.
00:22:20.33\00:22:22.63
Right. And you
know the question and,
00:22:22.64\00:22:24.84
and I really
think probably in the
00:22:24.85\00:22:26.12
Day of Judgment
that the Lord will honor,
00:22:26.13\00:22:28.00
will really be able
to hold us accountable,
00:22:28.01\00:22:29.67
you're selfish,
you're, you really,
00:22:29.68\00:22:32.45
you refuse to
accept salvation. Right.
00:22:32.46\00:22:34.94
You refused to,
to live for anybody,
00:22:34.95\00:22:37.39
but yourself
and, and we were ready
00:22:37.40\00:22:39.98
to pull you up and to save you,
00:22:39.99\00:22:41.50
but no. You would not.
00:22:41.51\00:22:42.61
You're gonna do at your way.
00:22:42.62\00:22:44.10
Right, so how
much time do we have
00:22:44.11\00:22:45.18
to get over the rest of this?
00:22:45.19\00:22:46.28
Well, we're taking, oh!
00:22:46.29\00:22:47.63
We got a rest of our lives, but.
00:22:47.64\00:22:48.82
But we don't want to take it
00:22:48.83\00:22:50.73
rest of our lives,
if we want to help.
00:22:50.74\00:22:52.23
Anyway and here's a good one,
00:22:52.24\00:22:54.55
how we learned in detachment
00:22:54.56\00:22:56.64
not to do for
others what they can do
00:22:56.65\00:22:58.56
for themselves. You know I've,
00:22:58.57\00:23:01.04
I've worked for
more than 20 years
00:23:01.05\00:23:02.95
in community services,
00:23:02.96\00:23:04.74
and now this could
be misunderstood but,
00:23:04.75\00:23:08.48
but I came to
the conclusion that
00:23:08.49\00:23:10.56
we should not help
people the most we can,
00:23:10.57\00:23:13.87
give them the most
help, but the, this,
00:23:13.88\00:23:15.97
the littlest
that doesn't make any,
00:23:15.98\00:23:18.56
any sense. The least.
00:23:18.57\00:23:19.69
The least we can because,
00:23:19.70\00:23:22.25
because
alternately a person must,
00:23:22.26\00:23:24.23
must solve their own problems.
00:23:24.24\00:23:26.22
Where the people are gonna take
00:23:26.23\00:23:27.50
exceptions to that?
00:23:27.51\00:23:28.48
Well, well you see I
feel that that take a person
00:23:28.49\00:23:32.00
who is real needy, you see,
00:23:32.01\00:23:33.64
if I bare him in
aid then he doesn't
00:23:33.65\00:23:37.00
need to do anything,
but wait for my truck
00:23:37.01\00:23:38.72
to pull up next
time. Right, right. And so,
00:23:38.73\00:23:41.94
what we're trying to do.
00:23:41.95\00:23:43.53
Cease to be self-sufficient.
00:23:43.54\00:23:44.70
Well, even in
ADRA see, and ADRA,
00:23:44.71\00:23:46.76
I and I worked there
you know for 12 years.
00:23:46.77\00:23:48.57
The purpose of ADRA
is to help people to help
00:23:48.58\00:23:51.50
themselves. Yes. And so,
00:23:51.51\00:23:53.90
this means that that,
00:23:53.91\00:23:55.27
if we're helping
our children as much as
00:23:55.28\00:23:57.42
we can we could feel,
00:23:57.43\00:23:59.36
well this is a
gesture of my love,
00:23:59.37\00:24:01.35
but we could be
helping so much, yeah,
00:24:01.36\00:24:04.60
that we're actually contributing
00:24:04.61\00:24:05.58
to the problem.
Contributing, yes.
00:24:05.59\00:24:06.56
And here's another
one it's very important,
00:24:06.57\00:24:09.63
not to cover up
for anyone's mistake
00:24:09.64\00:24:12.55
or misdeeds. Now, because this
00:24:12.56\00:24:15.37
gives them a shelter. Right,
00:24:15.38\00:24:16.92
we were talking about that
00:24:16.93\00:24:17.90
in the car there
right, we were talking about
00:24:17.91\00:24:19.36
that I don't come up for them.
00:24:19.37\00:24:20.41
And, and, and now I
don't think that means
00:24:20.42\00:24:22.15
and I'm gonna put in add,
00:24:22.16\00:24:23.13
in the newspaper
that my son takes drugs.
00:24:23.14\00:24:24.47
No, no, no. But,
but I'm not gonna
00:24:24.48\00:24:26.77
deny it because,
because ultimately you know,
00:24:26.78\00:24:29.55
if there's gonna be a change
00:24:29.56\00:24:30.57
to anybody's life,
in my life or yours
00:24:30.58\00:24:32.42
we've got to be accountable.
00:24:32.43\00:24:34.23
And so, if this
person feels that
00:24:34.24\00:24:36.75
they're being
protected it all the time then
00:24:36.76\00:24:38.94
they never have
to be accountable.
00:24:38.95\00:24:40.07
In other words,
there's always a front,
00:24:40.08\00:24:41.26
there's always
somebody that keeps me
00:24:41.27\00:24:42.92
from having to
face to truth. Right.
00:24:42.93\00:24:45.25
And, and I think I
have heard that in,
00:24:45.26\00:24:47.55
in treating of, of
addictions they talk
00:24:47.56\00:24:50.45
about confronting
somebody with the truth.
00:24:50.46\00:24:52.31
Right. And so,
you know the fact is
00:24:52.32\00:24:54.18
you're an addict.
Well, I don't see that but,
00:24:54.19\00:24:57.09
but that's what you are,
00:24:57.10\00:24:58.15
as soon doesn't scripture say,
00:24:58.16\00:25:00.27
if we confessed our sins.
00:25:00.28\00:25:01.87
Sins, and
specifically by the way.
00:25:01.88\00:25:03.70
He's faithful and just
to forgive us our sins.
00:25:03.71\00:25:06.59
And so, if we're
gonna keep our loved ones
00:25:06.60\00:25:08.77
from admitting
their weakness. Right.
00:25:08.78\00:25:12.31
Then there we're
simply gonna perpetuate
00:25:12.32\00:25:14.63
the problem. And,
and, and the last one
00:25:14.64\00:25:17.04
was we learned not
to prevent a crisis,
00:25:17.05\00:25:19.81
if it's in the
natural course of events.
00:25:19.82\00:25:22.36
And, and so that is to say that
00:25:22.37\00:25:24.54
and, and, and,
and that's basically
00:25:24.55\00:25:26.23
what we did? You know.
00:25:26.24\00:25:27.53
Then what do you mean exactly?
00:25:27.54\00:25:28.61
Well, let me tell
you this that whatever
00:25:28.62\00:25:31.09
we sow we're gonna reap. And,
00:25:31.10\00:25:33.44
and I believe a
person is going to stay on
00:25:33.45\00:25:35.11
the wrong road as
long as they can stand it.
00:25:35.12\00:25:38.08
And, and in
fact, with my own son.
00:25:38.09\00:25:40.66
Till they can't
stand it any longer.
00:25:40.67\00:25:41.85
Till they can't
stand and do any longer.
00:25:41.86\00:25:42.95
And with my son he
called me up one day
00:25:42.96\00:25:45.72
and he said,
dad I need your help
00:25:45.73\00:25:47.15
and then I took him
to the emergency room.
00:25:47.16\00:25:48.95
And the whole process
that would lead to his
00:25:48.96\00:25:51.89
restoration would set emotion,
00:25:51.90\00:25:53.75
but all the time
before we talked about it.
00:25:53.76\00:25:56.81
No, he wasn't, he
wasn't going to change.
00:25:56.82\00:25:58.43
He wasn't ready for that.
00:25:58.44\00:25:59.41
Because it was
bearable you see it,
00:25:59.42\00:26:00.39
it was more enjoyable
than the consequences.
00:26:00.40\00:26:02.66
Right. But friend,
exactly and, and, and
00:26:02.67\00:26:05.55
I really think it's true,
00:26:05.56\00:26:06.69
and if that we will
keep doing what we've been
00:26:06.70\00:26:09.92
doing until we
fed up with it. Right.
00:26:09.93\00:26:11.95
And so, and so
therefore we've kind him
00:26:11.96\00:26:14.83
got to let
nature takes his course.
00:26:14.84\00:26:16.80
And of course when our,
00:26:16.81\00:26:17.91
when our
children hurt we all hurt,
00:26:17.92\00:26:19.86
but we've, you
know the expression
00:26:19.87\00:26:22.47
I think they uses, hit bottom.
00:26:22.48\00:26:23.63
Yes, yes. Nobody
is going to change
00:26:23.64\00:26:26.18
until they hit bottom.
00:26:26.19\00:26:27.70
And I think that's
in, in the Christian life.
00:26:27.71\00:26:30.06
We confess our sins when I cry
00:26:30.07\00:26:33.48
God be merciful to
me as sinner. Right.
00:26:33.49\00:26:35.72
It's when I admit,
but it's what you say,
00:26:35.73\00:26:37.61
he that humbles
himself should be exalted,
00:26:37.62\00:26:39.81
humbled yourself
before God, right,
00:26:39.82\00:26:41.98
and He'll lift
you. Right, right.
00:26:41.99\00:26:43.60
And so, ultimately
it's, it's our helplessness;
00:26:43.61\00:26:46.80
it's our hopelessness
00:26:46.81\00:26:48.55
that's our strength in God.
00:26:48.56\00:26:49.65
So, how do we
accept the unacceptable?
00:26:49.66\00:26:51.64
Well, we're real I,
I can say my son is a,
00:26:51.65\00:26:56.00
is, is an alcoholic,
00:26:56.01\00:26:58.00
but anyway to end that story,
00:26:58.01\00:27:00.01
I said to him son;
I'll never accept you
00:27:00.02\00:27:03.09
until you give your
heart to Jesus. Right.
00:27:03.10\00:27:04.88
Tears were running
down my cheeks. Yes.
00:27:04.89\00:27:06.53
And they were running
down his cheeks. Good.
00:27:06.54\00:27:08.53
And, and, and, and
he understood where
00:27:08.54\00:27:10.07
I was coming from. Right.
00:27:10.08\00:27:11.05
I would be a real person,
00:27:11.06\00:27:12.45
but I would never
be satisfied until
00:27:12.46\00:27:14.60
he was back home. Amen,
00:27:14.61\00:27:15.85
well you're going to
back on another program.
00:27:15.86\00:27:18.63
Right, we're
gonna be talking again.
00:27:18.64\00:27:20.58
Telling the
story, more of the story.
00:27:20.59\00:27:22.11
That's right, and I
want to invite you to pray,
00:27:22.12\00:27:24.39
but before we do
pray, I want you to remember
00:27:24.40\00:27:27.91
that if we are
going to help others
00:27:27.92\00:27:29.50
we need to rise up
and live with Christ,
00:27:29.51\00:27:32.01
so that we can
be able to do that.
00:27:32.02\00:27:33.80
Well, Dick. Heavenly Father,
00:27:33.81\00:27:36.71
we're so thankful Lord that You
00:27:36.72\00:27:39.06
receive us however we are,
00:27:39.07\00:27:40.72
that we can't stink so bad,
00:27:40.73\00:27:42.26
but that you can wash us
00:27:42.27\00:27:44.21
and make us clean.
00:27:44.22\00:27:45.25
Lord, help us to detach not so
00:27:45.26\00:27:49.86
that we can go on our own way,
00:27:49.87\00:27:51.09
but so that we can really help
00:27:51.10\00:27:52.90
and be compassionate
00:27:52.91\00:27:53.91
and be supported to those
00:27:53.92\00:27:55.51
we love so much as you
00:27:55.52\00:27:57.08
have been and as you are
00:27:57.09\00:27:58.35
with us through Jesus Christ
00:27:58.36\00:28:00.47
our Lord we pray, amen.
00:28:00.48\00:28:01.90