Hello, I'm Kathy
Matthews and welcome back
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to Thinking About Home.
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We're continuing our
series on Plain Talk.
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And this time it's going to be
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plain talk to grandparents.
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We have our guest is director of
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Men's Ministries of
the Seventh-day Adventist
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Church in the Florida conference
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and that's Pastor Dick O'Ffill.
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Welcome again,
not only the director
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of men's ministries
but also a grandfather.
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Oh well I'm not
a grandparent yet.
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Well you should start
you know, do you think so,
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you just start getting
your daughters ready for that,
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groomed, and say. I want
you to promise me one thing
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that once that you found
just the right sons-in-law
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make sure that
you start thinking
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of make me a grandma,
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will you be looking,
will you be looking for them?
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Of course. Do you know what,
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well since I'm not
a grandparent though
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you're gonna have to
tell me what it's like?
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Yeah, I'll kind of
go through this one,
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I'll kind of walk you
through this one, okay.
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this would be kind of
a 101 for Kathy Matthews,
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for being a grandma,
okay, for grand parenting.
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By the way you know
when we say the word
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grandma or grandpa
it just sounds old.
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It really sounds old,
but I think my parents were
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grandparents when they
were in the 40's still.
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You know so being a
grandma or a grandpa
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is not something for old
people, it just sounds old.
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And we were really
don't have to direct it
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to grandparents but people
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with parents
with mature children.
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Well you know, as you
and I talk about this program
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we said well not
everybody is a grandparent
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but so let's include sort
of the emptiness situation
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where we've raised our children.
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They've grown
on and they may not
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have made as grandparents yet.
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But at least they're,
you know they've gone on,
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may they're single
still, may be they're married,
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they've gone on with
their lives but our original
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influence has been
somewhere diminished.
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Right, right. But
let me tell you about my
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grand children, do you
have a couple of hours?
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And so do I have.
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If you can get it in 28
minutes it'd be alright.
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Do I have, you
know, yeah I lose count
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but I think I
have four grandsons
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and three grand
daughters as of this speaking
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and the youngest
one, her name is Megan
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and she is 2 years old
and she calls me Grandpa.
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Like that, and
so, some of the others
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even the 16 year old
boy was the oldest or 15
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he calls me
grandpa honey, oh really.
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And it's just a
special thing we have,
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do you know Kathy
there is something about,
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and this is the boy. Oh sure.
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There is a closeness
that I think that potentially
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we as grandparents
have with our grandchildren
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that you never even can imagine
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that we would have
with our own children,
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it's wonderful. Why is that?
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I don't know how
to account for it,
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it's a special
relationship it was meant to be
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because and I
think of my own children
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and the role that
their grandparents
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my mother-in-law
for example or my mother
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played in their development.
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It's just what we
call the extended family
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and how important it is.
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And when this
extended family can function
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in the way that it
was meant to function
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what a strength that can be.
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And we know what a support
it can be to the children.
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Well you can, I can
tell you enjoyed a lot.
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I sure do Grandpa when I go home
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they'll say hi
Grandpa. I enjoy that a lot.
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Well how guilty should we feel,
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let me ask you
another question now.
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How guilty should
we feel if our children
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don't turn out the way we hoped?
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Now Kathy you're doing
plain talk, that's what.
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Because, and I say
this because probably
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if the truth be known
that for the majority of us,
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us parents with grown children,
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our children didn't all turn out
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to be ministers
and Bible workers.
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And I really
haven't done account on it
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but probably in a
huge number of cases,
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there are even children
you know they are those of us
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whose children may not
even be in the faith anymore.
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I know one of my
children was lost to me
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into the Lord for ten years.
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For ten years I
had a prodigal son,
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yeah. And but the
Lord has given him back,
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he's healed him again
so I know those feelings
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and you know I
remember you remind,
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I'll tell you kind
of a personal story.
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My wife's name
is Betty by the way,
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that's my mother in-law's name
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and so I remember one day when,
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by the way I was the
health intemperance person
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for the first time,
I think the first time
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I ever heard you, you
were in that position.
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Well I still am, or
you still, oh I still am.
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You know they
might add something,
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but they don't
take anything away.
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And so at that time
and I think can refer back
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to this and still be
respectful of the family
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and at that time
there was a 15 year old girl
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who was expecting what
would be my granddaughter.
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And she wasn't my
daughter-in-law yet.
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Oh and my, one of my
sons was taking drugs and
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so forth and Betty
came home from work one day.
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And she's, her face
was just expressionless,
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I mean you know. How you
might expect that you know
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was she's coming
home and she's preoccupied
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or she's thinking
about something else.
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But, I mean it
wasn't just a minute or two
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it was just and I
said honey what's wrong.
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And she said, oh she said
somebody came to work today,
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some well meaning
person, it didn't mean anything,
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it wasn't an insult and
just happen to say Betty
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you know I'm sure you're
going through a whole lot,
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I'm praying for you.
No, no that's innocuous
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that was a
wonderful thing to say
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but it caught Betty wrong.
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And Betty said you
know, she says I think
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I feel so
ashamed to myself I think
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I ought to wear
dark glasses to work,
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and she is,
incognito, yeah she is,
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I feel like Mrs. Bundy, oh.
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And I said oh honey
please don't feel that way,
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I said they love
us. They love us,
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the people love us and
I can say this you know
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because it's been a
number of years now.
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That when it came
time for a baby shower
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that there must have
been 50 women at that shower,
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really. And they
were the grandma types
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you know they were
supposed legalist types,
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the people that
they say are legalists,
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that people talk
about as legalist.
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They were 50 of
those women came for that
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baby shower, and
I just wanted to cry
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and I said what an
outpouring of love.
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But I guess you
ask me the question
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is to how guilty should we feel.
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I can't ever remember
waking up in the morning
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and saying I
think I want to mess up
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my children's lives. I
mean, can you, you know,
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now may be some
devil would think that.
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But I did the best I
could and you're asking
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the question how
guilty should we feel.
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Now I know there are
parents who feel that the fact
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that their children
may have left the faith
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or their children
are having you know
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some real sad experience,
they're to blame, yes.
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And they say it's
my fault you know,
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if I hadn't done this or
if I can only do it again.
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And I think Kathy that
we've got to get past that.
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Are you saying that you
don't think we could critic
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ourselves for future
help toward the grandchildren?
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Well, as I look back,
or even for the children,
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and let me tell you something.
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I have actually
asked my grown children
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to forgive me for
things that I did in the past.
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Now, it's not like I was
some criminal in the past,
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yes. But for lapses of
judgment or for moments
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in which I wasn't as
kind and I've said honey,
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please forgive daddy for that.
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But yet, I can't carry
that into the present, right,
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because how can I
live my life over again?
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But you've done
what would be required.
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Well I can't live
my life over again
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so in the first place,
so you need to be move on.
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What good would it do?
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If I were to see myself
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as to blame which is not true.
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Is to blame for
whatever my children turn out
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to be then what
can I do about it.
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I can't go back and do it again.
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So that isn't even constructive.
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And also you know if
I say that I'm to blame
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for the way my
children turn out or anybody
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out there, you
feel I'm to blame.
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Well then how can God
have a judgment because
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a judgment presupposes
personal responsibility.
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So if it was true that
how our children end up
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is the fault of the
parents then that means
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that God
couldn't have a judgment
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because we could all
be blaming our parents.
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And the media would be correct.
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Well you know that,
we could discuss that,
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the society not media.
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Because everything
these days is about
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somebody else
is to blame, right.
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Nobody taking accountability
and responsibility
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nobody taking responsibility.
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But really you know
to answer your question,
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I don't think
it's healthy or correct
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or effective or constructive.
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You know to look back
and say well the thing
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is that my children are
doing are because of me.
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I've repented of my full faults
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and of my mistakes and errors.
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And doesn't Jesus forgive, yes.
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If we confess ourselves,
can't I get on with my life?
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That's the way I feel
it and I think I will say
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that to parents and grandparents
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who are listening or
watching this program
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and that is let's
get on with our lives.
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Let's get on with our lives.
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Now how that
involved do you think we ought
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to get in our
children and our grandchildren.
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You mean now that
they're grown, yes.
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Well yes. Well
that obviously see,
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this is a thing of course your,
00:10:02.60\00:10:05.51
you know your
children; well I'm not dealing
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with as mature
children as you are.
00:10:07.74\00:10:09.39
I was going to
say you got a teenager
00:10:09.53\00:10:10.50
and a young adult
yes. And Sarah and Rachel,
00:10:10.63\00:10:13.72
so I think I need
to be fairly involved
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still with even my elder one.
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You are involved, you
are involved and of course
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I think this is
one of the challenges
00:10:20.15\00:10:21.32
that we as parents and
grandparents have is that
00:10:21.54\00:10:24.55
obviously there was a
time in which we decided
00:10:24.76\00:10:26.88
when they go to
bed, when they get up,
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when they take a bath,
oh well I'm not talking
00:10:28.73\00:10:29.92
about that, when
they eat, how they dress,
00:10:30.13\00:10:31.38
you understand, yes.
But what I'm saying is that
00:10:31.59\00:10:33.50
especially you as mothers
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this can get
locked into your head.
00:10:34.90\00:10:36.46
Yes, and so when it gets
to the time when they begin
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to have to make
their own decisions, right,
00:10:40.98\00:10:43.66
and you see I think
we have to understand
00:10:43.87\00:10:46.00
that it's alright for
me as a parent to decide
00:10:46.22\00:10:52.33
when my 9 year old goes to bed.
00:10:52.55\00:10:54.87
But then I've got to,
when they get to be 39
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I've got to get past
that well. Well I don't know,
00:10:58.36\00:11:01.51
to me that just
seem to be a given.
00:11:01.72\00:11:04.26
Well but there
are those few cases.
00:11:04.47\00:11:06.30
Now it might not be
about when to go to bed.
00:11:06.51\00:11:07.67
But there is this
kind of a toxic dependency,
00:11:07.89\00:11:11.06
in other words there
would be those cases in which
00:11:11.27\00:11:13.93
the relationship is such
that though the parent is,
00:11:14.13\00:11:17.75
though the child is not doing
00:11:17.96\00:11:19.45
what the parent is
saying, that there is
00:11:19.66\00:11:21.36
this kind of toxic
what do you call it,
00:11:21.56\00:11:23.47
codependency, codependency
What about the other side
00:11:23.69\00:11:26.71
though where there is
no involvement at all.
00:11:26.92\00:11:28.49
Well you know, you have
that ability, don't you?
00:11:28.72\00:11:31.85
To say what about
this or what about that.
00:11:32.06\00:11:34.13
Well I don't think
that we have to choose
00:11:34.34\00:11:37.75
one bad choice or
another, you know this makes me,
00:11:37.98\00:11:41.20
oh you're
calling it a bad choice.
00:11:41.41\00:11:43.14
I probably am, because
you know sometimes people
00:11:43.36\00:11:45.03
will come to you and
they will say what do you,
00:11:45.24\00:11:46.36
believe do you believe
this or do you believe that?
00:11:46.57\00:11:48.55
And you want to say
give me another choice, yes.
00:11:48.77\00:11:50.83
And so you're saying
Dick, what about the others,
00:11:51.05\00:11:53.53
well obviously,
obviously we are involved,
00:11:53.75\00:11:56.45
in other words I could
say that I'm not going be
00:11:56.66\00:11:59.15
involved in adult
children's lives but I'm sorry,
00:11:59.36\00:12:02.67
I am involved even my
uninvolvement is involvement.
00:12:02.89\00:12:06.98
Even if I'm not gonna
look this is impacting them.
00:12:07.20\00:12:10.05
Because you see then pretty soon
00:12:10.25\00:12:11.48
this thing pops
up you don't care.
00:12:11.70\00:12:13.32
Not caring is involvement,
00:12:13.54\00:12:14.81
it's a
perception, they don't care.
00:12:15.13\00:12:17.38
Go on now, can you
go, non-involvement
00:12:19.00\00:12:21.80
is an involvement in their mind
00:12:22.02\00:12:24.13
because where do your parents,
00:12:24.34\00:12:26.44
our parents fit into
this, they don't care.
00:12:26.67\00:12:28.50
How are they
involved, well in other words,
00:12:28.75\00:12:30.50
they don't care about me,
00:12:30.71\00:12:31.68
in the mind of the
person it's controlling
00:12:31.69\00:12:32.88
to them or it's
having its effect.
00:12:33.11\00:12:34.96
It's having its
effect, yes. And so I think,
00:12:35.20\00:12:37.66
but I think your question
is very legitimate is that.
00:12:37.89\00:12:40.95
Well Abraham was
involved for a long time,
00:12:41.16\00:12:43.97
well you see I've
lived in countries
00:12:44.19\00:12:45.47
where you decided,
your parents decided
00:12:45.68\00:12:47.16
who is gonna marry you.
00:12:47.36\00:12:48.33
I don't think you
want to get into that.
00:12:48.50\00:12:50.90
I thought I've
already been into that.
00:12:52.25\00:12:53.63
No, don't misunderstand.
00:12:55.27\00:12:57.35
But you know what I've noticed,
00:12:57.63\00:12:58.93
I love my
children and they love me.
00:12:59.14\00:13:01.20
But you know even
when they're in their 30s,
00:13:01.42\00:13:03.81
all my children
are in there 30s,
00:13:04.03\00:13:05.33
they still long for the blessing
00:13:05.55\00:13:08.65
and the
approval of their father.
00:13:08.86\00:13:10.00
That blows my mind,
00:13:10.32\00:13:11.29
and that's the good
part of involvement.
00:13:11.30\00:13:12.59
But that blows my mind though.
00:13:12.83\00:13:13.81
Because you see this
means that they see me
00:13:14.04\00:13:16.42
as a accountable in a way
00:13:16.63\00:13:17.97
that I don't
still precede myself.
00:13:18.19\00:13:20.11
And you see the
dilemma that sets upon
00:13:20.35\00:13:23.65
that is when a child
gets to be our of their own
00:13:23.87\00:13:27.27
they make decisions on their own
00:13:27.50\00:13:29.40
without consulting you and then
00:13:29.62\00:13:31.44
they want you to approve them.
00:13:31.64\00:13:32.62
That's pretty, that's
pretty complicate, it's tough.
00:13:32.85\00:13:36.06
And I might say that for
me this is one of the most
00:13:36.28\00:13:39.18
difficult roles that I play
00:13:39.39\00:13:42.24
and that I'm
supposed to be supportive,
00:13:42.45\00:13:44.66
for things you
don't approve of, exactly.
00:13:44.88\00:13:48.92
In other words
they're going to do it,
00:13:49.14\00:13:50.56
I don't get a
vote, tie my hands.
00:13:50.78\00:13:54.16
And I'm
supposed to be accepting,
00:13:54.38\00:13:56.17
yes yeah that's hard.
00:13:56.39\00:13:57.85
I remember and I can say
this you know, is it right.
00:13:58.07\00:14:01.54
I remember my boy
saying to me when he was in his
00:14:01.76\00:14:06.33
real slump,
taking drugs and all.
00:14:06.54\00:14:08.21
He said you just
accept me the way I am,
00:14:08.41\00:14:10.16
I remember we were eating
at the time spaghetti plate.
00:14:10.39\00:14:13.95
And I remember
tears came into my eyes.
00:14:14.18\00:14:15.64
And I said son I can
never accept you until
00:14:15.87\00:14:19.23
you return to
Jesus and his tears came.
00:14:19.44\00:14:21.81
You see it wasn't,
he must have understood
00:14:22.02\00:14:23.02
what you mean by
that. It didn't mean that,
00:14:23.24\00:14:24.60
it didn't mean I
don't love you honey,
00:14:24.83\00:14:26.01
it didn't mean you're
not my son it mean son
00:14:26.23\00:14:28.82
I'll not rest
until you've come back,
00:14:29.04\00:14:31.61
and he understood
that, he understood that.
00:14:31.82\00:14:33.31
And so I think that there
is this very delicate thing,
00:14:33.54\00:14:36.20
I might say that at
this stage in my life
00:14:36.42\00:14:37.83
is one of the
hardest things I do.
00:14:38.04\00:14:39.15
Is that I love my children see,
00:14:39.37\00:14:41.87
I love my children but
then, you know why do I cry,
00:14:42.10\00:14:45.19
I cry because if I didn't
love him I wouldn't cry, yes.
00:14:45.42\00:14:47.39
If I did really care I
wouldn't care but the fact
00:14:47.64\00:14:51.02
that I care so much.
But you see this could be
00:14:51.25\00:14:54.42
misinterpreted, it's
a very delicate thing.
00:14:54.66\00:14:56.36
Sometimes I think it's
almost a lose-lose situation.
00:14:56.61\00:15:00.12
But we keep
trying, we keep trying,
00:15:00.35\00:15:03.13
and I try to be affirmative
you know to be affirming
00:15:03.34\00:15:07.90
I should say and
let them know I care
00:15:08.11\00:15:10.63
but at the same time
you know after being around
00:15:10.86\00:15:13.85
for this many years, I
don't want to tell them
00:15:14.06\00:15:16.67
everything that
they do I think is neat.
00:15:16.87\00:15:18.76
How can I do that, I
would have to be an idiot.
00:15:18.99\00:15:20.46
Well are you
expected to be an idiot.
00:15:22.06\00:15:23.76
Well sometimes you have
to make a fool of yourself
00:15:26.65\00:15:29.30
and sometimes you end
up losing for the moment
00:15:29.52\00:15:33.39
even though I think,
Airing on the side of mercy.
00:15:33.61\00:15:35.98
And I think too that our
children as they look back
00:15:36.20\00:15:40.71
on us because you
see they might be living
00:15:40.94\00:15:44.72
in the short terms, see
we've been around awhile,
00:15:44.93\00:15:46.90
we've seen things long term.
00:15:47.15\00:15:48.28
You remember
when we were younger
00:15:48.50\00:15:49.87
we saw its short term, no.
00:15:50.09\00:15:51.29
Yes, you can't
remember back that far. No.
00:15:51.50\00:15:53.23
Yes, I can.
Anyway, anyway, anyway,
00:15:53.42\00:15:56.87
see our children are
looking for short term things
00:15:57.08\00:15:59.39
we see at long term, so
we have ability to project
00:15:59.61\00:16:02.79
a result that they don't have.
00:16:03.02\00:16:05.24
And I think that at least
in my life that my children
00:16:05.48\00:16:08.89
have tended to give
me when they'll look back
00:16:09.12\00:16:11.02
they will say well dad
you were right and I remember
00:16:11.25\00:16:13.13
even one of my
children saying oh daddy
00:16:13.35\00:16:15.26
this was not about you,
this was not your failure
00:16:15.47\00:16:17.56
it was my selfishness,
yes, you were right.
00:16:17.77\00:16:19.58
You always love me,
you raised me right,
00:16:19.81\00:16:21.43
see, but at the time
they wouldn't have said that.
00:16:21.65\00:16:24.39
Yes. They could only
say that when like the
00:16:24.61\00:16:26.13
prodigal son they
came to themselves.
00:16:26.35\00:16:27.88
You don't find any
satisfaction at that point,
00:16:28.10\00:16:29.97
you just find a
thankfulness that they can see
00:16:30.19\00:16:36.02
what God wants them to see.
00:16:36.28\00:16:37.84
And that is if
your motives are correct
00:16:38.07\00:16:40.83
and you are
thinking right, you know.
00:16:41.05\00:16:42.88
But it's an ongoing challenge
I think for those of us
00:16:43.09\00:16:46.32
whose children are
grown and the question
00:16:46.55\00:16:49.09
is a good one, how
much should we get involved.
00:16:49.31\00:16:50.89
Probably we should
get involved as, to answer
00:16:51.12\00:16:53.83
specifically as little and
as appropriately as possible.
00:16:54.03\00:16:57.73
Well, I'm glad you added
that last word appropriately
00:16:57.96\00:17:00.54
as possible and as
a little means some,
00:17:00.75\00:17:04.52
that's right of
course, okay, of course.
00:17:04.75\00:17:06.68
I want to invite our
audience to write or call 3ABN
00:17:07.17\00:17:12.28
and on future topics
for Thinking About Home,
00:17:12.50\00:17:15.61
they could make some
suggestions if you want you can.
00:17:15.83\00:17:18.36
And you see the
address is 3ABN, PO Box 220,
00:17:18.58\00:17:25.33
West Frankfort, Illinois 62896
00:17:25.55\00:17:28.24
and it's easy enough
to get our 800 number
00:17:28.45\00:17:30.66
but I'll tell
you 1-800-752-3226.
00:17:30.88\00:17:35.01
Now Dick, I've heard
this word detachment.
00:17:35.24\00:17:39.59
You know I learned this
word when I was attending
00:17:39.81\00:17:42.79
Al-Anon believe
it or not, oh really.
00:17:43.01\00:17:44.98
Al-Anon you know
is the, you've heard
00:17:45.19\00:17:48.71
of the
alcoholics anonymous, yes,
00:17:48.93\00:17:51.37
and the
narcotics anonymous, yes.
00:17:51.59\00:17:53.85
Al-Anon is the side
for the families of the,
00:17:54.07\00:17:57.90
the effected people, right.
00:17:58.11\00:18:00.13
I think one of the
greatest blessings that came
00:18:00.34\00:18:02.68
from that whole
experience that I had in Al-Anon
00:18:02.90\00:18:06.07
was the concept of
detachment and I think it is,
00:18:06.30\00:18:08.73
and I don't think we are
only talking about addictions
00:18:08.97\00:18:11.98
and things like that. I
think we're talking about
00:18:12.21\00:18:13.79
relationships to each
other and I think earlier in the
00:18:14.01\00:18:17.18
program we used the word
a kind of a co-dependency.
00:18:17.39\00:18:20.19
You see if my life
is going to be such
00:18:20.42\00:18:23.19
that when my
children are up, I'm up
00:18:23.44\00:18:25.10
or when they're down, I'm down.
00:18:25.34\00:18:26.31
What kind of a life will I
have now, a roller coaster,
00:18:26.54\00:18:30.96
it's a roller coaster,
'cause I don't get votes.
00:18:31.18\00:18:33.85
See in other words
they're living their own lives.
00:18:34.07\00:18:35.97
So I think that
challenge we have is parents
00:18:36.19\00:18:38.46
with adult children
and as grandparents is that
00:18:38.69\00:18:41.92
we're connected by love
but we've separated ourselves
00:18:42.14\00:18:45.70
in a way emotionally,
you're not severing.
00:18:45.92\00:18:48.41
No, no way. But we're
able to continue so that
00:18:48.63\00:18:53.90
we're not being just
dragged along by what they do.
00:18:54.11\00:18:56.27
Do we feel it, do we
feel it, yes we feel it.
00:18:56.49\00:18:59.34
But it's not destroying us.
00:18:59.83\00:19:01.52
You know there are
crisis that our children have
00:19:01.75\00:19:03.81
maybe with some of
the more extreme cases
00:19:04.03\00:19:06.69
of alcoholism
and drug addiction.
00:19:06.90\00:19:08.41
But even other things
that break up marriages.
00:19:08.64\00:19:11.01
And so I think
Betty, my wife and I,
00:19:11.24\00:19:15.20
we were really
blessed that we went through
00:19:15.41\00:19:16.94
some real crisis, you
know world class crisis
00:19:17.15\00:19:19.62
but instead of
splitting us apart
00:19:19.83\00:19:21.86
it actually drew us
closer together and I think
00:19:22.10\00:19:25.37
that the Lord actually
helped us to detach ourselves
00:19:25.59\00:19:28.48
in such a way that
we were able to through
00:19:28.71\00:19:31.08
these things get
on with our lives.
00:19:31.29\00:19:32.73
And you had learned to do that.
00:19:32.95\00:19:34.90
And of course we've got
to, some times when people
00:19:35.11\00:19:38.33
get into problems in their lives
00:19:38.54\00:19:40.01
and they talk to me about it,
00:19:40.23\00:19:41.20
I'll say go down to
Al-Anon because they won't ask
00:19:41.37\00:19:43.62
why you're there and
just sit around the table.
00:19:43.83\00:19:46.10
And you know once
they've introduced themselves
00:19:46.32\00:19:48.95
hello I'm Dick you know
they'll go around the table
00:19:49.17\00:19:51.97
then you just
raise your hand and say
00:19:52.19\00:19:54.08
talk to me about detachment.
00:19:54.30\00:19:56.05
And what you'll hear
there can mean so much
00:19:56.28\00:19:59.17
for the marriage and the
relationship with children
00:19:59.40\00:20:01.81
or just problems
that are getting us down.
00:20:01.84\00:20:04.05
We have to be able to
go through our problems,
00:20:04.08\00:20:06.98
remember the text that,
we'll with the trial make
00:20:07.01\00:20:10.16
a way of escape. You
don't get out of that
00:20:10.19\00:20:12.43
but you get through it,
yes. And I think the only
00:20:12.46\00:20:15.31
way we can get
through but certain problem
00:20:15.34\00:20:17.19
is by doing kind of an
emotional and spiritual
00:20:17.22\00:20:19.71
detachment. At least
this is the way it's been
00:20:19.74\00:20:22.61
in my life. Especially
if you have children who
00:20:22.64\00:20:25.83
have wandered away
from the truth, oh yeah,
00:20:27.83\00:20:29.57
and who are just
making that, what we perceive
00:20:29.60\00:20:32.72
as being decisions
that are just off the wall.
00:20:32.75\00:20:34.74
Yes, yes. And you're
saying don't do that,
00:20:34.77\00:20:37.46
don't do that, why
are you doing, okay.
00:20:37.49\00:20:39.30
Let's move on to how
to we treat each other
00:20:40.01\00:20:42.61
after the nest is
empty. You know that's an
00:20:43.83\00:20:47.08
important question,
what do they call that,
00:20:47.11\00:20:48.40
is there a name for
that, the phenomena of the
00:20:48.43\00:20:51.91
emptiness or the
Emptiness Syndrome.
00:20:51.94\00:20:53.64
Because obviously
when a couple have had that
00:20:54.95\00:20:57.70
children, you see the
couple could have been
00:20:57.73\00:21:00.17
untied only in the
children. Yes, and that's
00:21:00.20\00:21:03.91
happened I'm sure many times.
00:21:03.94\00:21:05.22
And so, and the thing
that keeps them together.
00:21:05.25\00:21:07.65
They're really not
friends, they really don't know
00:21:08.72\00:21:10.63
each other very well,
but they've had something
00:21:10.66\00:21:12.62
in common and they've
had sons and daughters.
00:21:12.65\00:21:14.65
And now suddenly
the sons and daughters
00:21:14.68\00:21:16.85
are gone and there
you'll find yourself with his
00:21:16.88\00:21:20.37
person that you don't
know or may not even like.
00:21:20.40\00:21:22.75
And this is why I
think it's so important that
00:21:24.95\00:21:27.68
as we raise our children,
that we have a friendship
00:21:27.71\00:21:32.11
among ourselves
that's beyond our children or
00:21:32.14\00:21:34.94
in spite of our
children, right. We were friends
00:21:34.97\00:21:37.27
before our
children were born, right.
00:21:37.30\00:21:38.78
And we're going have
to be friends after our
00:21:39.65\00:21:42.18
children are gone.
Some may have to learn how
00:21:42.21\00:21:44.06
to do that all over
again. Well I think so because
00:21:44.09\00:21:45.90
we have to kind of
recreate our lives.
00:21:45.93\00:21:47.27
I think that this is
just a pragmatic challenge,
00:21:47.30\00:21:51.19
in other words
while we've been occupied
00:21:51.22\00:21:53.63
putting them through
college and through an
00:21:53.66\00:21:56.13
academy and getting
whatever it was depending
00:21:56.16\00:21:58.62
on their age. Kind of
lost the relationship with
00:21:58.65\00:22:00.62
each other, suddenly
that's gone, that's gone.
00:22:00.65\00:22:01.93
What am I gonna do with my time.
00:22:01.96\00:22:03.03
How am I going
to carve out a life,
00:22:04.62\00:22:06.01
that's especially for
the mother it seems like
00:22:06.04\00:22:08.12
more so than the
father? I think she's the one.
00:22:08.15\00:22:09.69
I think she's the
one that takes the hit as
00:22:09.72\00:22:12.43
we would say
mostly and has the crisis
00:22:12.46\00:22:15.11
and who am I. It
is a crisis, it is.
00:22:15.14\00:22:17.91
I can, it's not
as much emptiness,
00:22:18.56\00:22:21.94
but I've felt it even with
our older daughter leaving,
00:22:22.58\00:22:25.26
she's only 19 at this
point. But when she left
00:22:25.29\00:22:30.07
because we've had, we
had been together so much
00:22:30.10\00:22:32.66
for home schooling and
it wasn't send your children
00:22:32.69\00:22:35.82
off everyday, we were there.
00:22:35.85\00:22:37.36
We were around each
other all the time and
00:22:37.39\00:22:41.44
it was like a
death in the family,
00:22:41.47\00:22:42.95
it was the band
across my chest every time
00:22:42.98\00:22:45.37
I looked at a room I
would weep, oh have mercy.
00:22:45.40\00:22:47.66
And it was painful. But in time,
00:22:47.69\00:22:50.49
I got over a lot of
it and as long as that
00:22:50.52\00:22:54.56
relationship kept
going. You know you developed
00:22:54.59\00:22:58.94
another type of
relationship, of course.
00:22:58.97\00:23:00.99
But I had to
learn how to do that?
00:23:01.02\00:23:02.83
We've got to tell our
audience that little Rachel
00:23:02.86\00:23:05.78
is still around to
comfort our mind, yes,
00:23:05.81\00:23:07.78
I know she is. Maybe
she's doing a lot of comforting.
00:23:07.81\00:23:10.80
The emptiness though
could lead to well there
00:23:10.83\00:23:18.04
could be some problems involved,
00:23:18.07\00:23:19.37
in getting to know
each other again they
00:23:19.40\00:23:21.45
could involve bitterness
over some situations from.
00:23:21.48\00:23:23.81
You see, I think that
this is one of the challenges
00:23:25.04\00:23:27.77
that we face that's
probably connected what
00:23:27.80\00:23:29.62
we were saying about
the feeling of guilt.
00:23:29.65\00:23:31.37
Because if I accept
guilt as being valid,
00:23:32.27\00:23:36.03
then I think I'm going
to feel bitter and when
00:23:37.33\00:23:40.11
I begin to feel bitter
I'm going to begin to look
00:23:40.14\00:23:42.95
for somebody to
blame. So then, either
00:23:42.98\00:23:46.61
I'm going to begin
to blame myself which
00:23:46.64\00:23:48.65
let's say I blame
myself but you know a person
00:23:48.68\00:23:51.18
who is even bitter
against themselves is soon
00:23:51.21\00:23:54.01
going to be about to
express that bitterness
00:23:54.04\00:23:55.90
on others. Yes, spill
over, it's a spill over and
00:23:55.93\00:23:59.25
it's kind of like a house
of cards, it begins to just
00:23:59.28\00:24:02.37
splatter. And so I
think that this is one of the
00:24:02.40\00:24:07.50
greatest challenges
that we have and it has
00:24:07.53\00:24:09.42
to do with what I call
Kathy Christianity 101.
00:24:09.45\00:24:13.85
See the problems we
are having in our lives are
00:24:14.70\00:24:17.51
not because we don't
know the deep things of God
00:24:17.54\00:24:20.62
or the Greek and the
Hebrew. You know if I just
00:24:20.65\00:24:23.92
knew Greek and
Hebrew my problems would be
00:24:23.95\00:24:25.70
over or if I just knew
all that there was you know
00:24:25.73\00:24:28.73
writings of the Spirit
of Prophecy my problems
00:24:28.76\00:24:31.39
would be over. No.
Some of the basics.
00:24:31.42\00:24:33.40
Listen our basic
problem it seems to me in the
00:24:34.25\00:24:36.76
21st century, is that
we are refusing to repent
00:24:36.79\00:24:40.88
which means we refuse
to admit that we're wrong.
00:24:40.91\00:24:43.78
And that's what we're
called to do and we're
00:24:43.81\00:24:45.84
refusing to forgive
those who've wronged us,
00:24:45.87\00:24:49.02
those who've sinned against us.
00:24:50.08\00:24:51.19
And so as long as
we're going to harden our
00:24:51.22\00:24:53.93
hearts we're
going to pay the price.
00:24:53.96\00:24:55.73
And the first thing
that goes up in smoke is
00:24:56.50\00:24:58.70
probably going
to be our marriage.
00:24:58.73\00:25:00.37
Our marriage comes to pieces.
00:25:01.46\00:25:02.84
A couple where there is
bitterness and resentment
00:25:04.83\00:25:07.15
brought on by the
stubbornness of heart.
00:25:07.18\00:25:08.93
It's all over but it's
not like some incurable
00:25:08.96\00:25:13.79
disease. Because there
is no temptation taken us,
00:25:13.82\00:25:16.91
the promise is clear,
if we confess our sins.
00:25:16.94\00:25:19.99
He is faithful and
just to forgive, you know.
00:25:20.75\00:25:23.01
But people refusing to confess.
00:25:23.04\00:25:25.31
Oh no because it's
not the end thing to do.
00:25:25.89\00:25:28.66
You know I have this
little thing that I say
00:25:29.22\00:25:31.34
you've heard the
little saying, to err is human
00:25:31.37\00:25:34.90
to forgive divine,
divine. You know I spend that
00:25:36.29\00:25:38.46
to err is human,
not to admit it is dumb.
00:25:39.21\00:25:41.13
And it's really. But
it's true. It's really not
00:25:45.20\00:25:46.47
funny though.
Because if we don't admit our
00:25:46.50\00:25:49.97
mistakes we're
gonna repeat them.
00:25:50.00\00:25:51.14
And if we don't
forgive, if keep bitterness
00:25:52.37\00:25:55.70
and resentment in
our hearts we will be
00:25:55.73\00:25:57.49
continually what
should I say acting out our
00:25:57.52\00:26:00.72
revenge on all our
decisions. In other words if
00:26:00.75\00:26:03.51
I have bitterness and
resentment toward anyone
00:26:03.54\00:26:04.87
in my life, it'll
effect every decision I make,
00:26:04.90\00:26:07.37
I'll be getting
even with somebody.
00:26:07.40\00:26:08.81
We re-living it, oh we
never get away from it.
00:26:10.66\00:26:13.83
We never get away from
it. Got you slaved, captive,
00:26:14.47\00:26:16.77
exactly. We are basically
a slave to our memories,
00:26:17.37\00:26:21.50
to our, and
especially to our bitterness and
00:26:21.53\00:26:23.90
resentment. Unless
we have the gift of
00:26:23.93\00:26:25.83
forgiveness,
exactly, yes. Which God's so
00:26:25.86\00:26:28.07
graciously promising
for us. That's our way
00:26:28.10\00:26:30.72
of escape. Yeah. So
there is hope for us as
00:26:30.75\00:26:33.97
our children grow
older and we've just got to
00:26:34.00\00:26:36.75
recognize that time
goes on. We change you see
00:26:36.78\00:26:40.07
we have not only the
phenomena of our children
00:26:40.10\00:26:42.48
growing up but we
have the phenomena
00:26:42.51\00:26:44.42
and I think we are
gonna touch that in a program
00:26:44.45\00:26:45.57
of we ourselves
began to get older, yes.
00:26:45.60\00:26:48.04
And how will we relate
to our, no not me just you.
00:26:48.74\00:26:51.11
Not me, see you're
old already, I,m sorry.
00:26:52.48\00:26:54.23
Well I think you've
been old all your life
00:26:54.74\00:26:56.55
and that's what
you keep telling me.
00:26:56.58\00:26:57.86
Well see it's my gray
hair. Some people think
00:26:58.48\00:26:59.93
I was born with gray
hair. I know you're always
00:26:59.96\00:27:03.55
teasing about
that, yes that's right.
00:27:03.58\00:27:05.16
I have a, you know
my father went through
00:27:05.19\00:27:08.54
continual asking of
forgiveness as he got older.
00:27:09.46\00:27:11.60
But then there came
a time when I think he
00:27:11.63\00:27:13.92
finally accepted
that, amen. And he needed
00:27:13.95\00:27:16.21
that very much so. But
now our time is getting
00:27:16.24\00:27:19.24
awfully short and
we're going to have close
00:27:19.27\00:27:21.03
the program up. You
are going to be back.
00:27:21.06\00:27:22.57
Yes, I surely, there is
going to be a time or two
00:27:22.60\00:27:24.20
more I think. I want to
you invite you to join us
00:27:24.23\00:27:27.57
again on Thinking
About Home, but before we go
00:27:27.60\00:27:30.30
we're going to have a
prayer for you, please
00:27:30.33\00:27:32.24
join us in prayer as
well. Heavenly Father,
00:27:32.27\00:27:35.13
we're thankful that
we have children and Lord
00:27:35.16\00:27:39.21
that we could raise
them up now they're grown
00:27:39.24\00:27:40.92
and we don't make
their decisions for them
00:27:40.95\00:27:42.55
anymore. Lord, we
pray that you'll not only
00:27:42.58\00:27:45.33
be with them and
help them in their adult
00:27:45.36\00:27:47.08
lives as parents
themselves but help us as
00:27:47.11\00:27:50.70
grandparents. And
as parents with grown
00:27:50.73\00:27:53.64
children to have wisdom. Yes.
00:27:53.67\00:27:55.76
Help us have understanding,
00:27:55.79\00:27:56.85
Lord help us to be
kind, help us to be gentle.
00:27:56.88\00:28:00.02