Hi, I'm Kathy Matthews,
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and this is Thinking About Home.
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Is there an identity
crisis among men today?
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That's what we're
gonna to be talking about.
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The subject is
going to be about men
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and most especially
in the area of husbands.
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And recently I
had the opportunity
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to meet a man that works
for the Florida Conference.
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He's the Director
of Men's Ministries
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for the Florida Conference
of Seventh day Adventists
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and his name is Richard O'Ffill.
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Pastor O'Ffill, thank
you for being with us today.
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I'm glad to be here Kathy.
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By the way you and
I've never been together
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on a program before
and I was looking at the
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intro for this program.
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I was wondering if
all those pictures of all
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those young people when
they're getting married.
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Is that you and your husband?
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No, I think it's
somebody that used to work here
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or still does. I'm not sure
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but it would be
fun if they were us.
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Yeah, there are
some beautiful pictures.
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They are, they are beautiful.
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Whoever did
that, did a nice job.
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They did. You're gonna
have to excuse me today.
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I've got a little cold,
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I may sound a little nasally.
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And if I cough
you, you won't mind
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if I get some germs on you.
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Not as long as
you cover your mouth.
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I could forget
that, I hope I won't.
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I want to welcome
you and I know that
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you and I have
some of the similar
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burdens about the home.
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And I know that
it's really important
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for us to get this
across to our viewers
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and I hope that they
are all ages that's going
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to be watching but
especially if there are
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husbands that
somebody could get this to,
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it would be
important to maybe that if you
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could share this as we
finish our discussion today.
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There is an
identity crisis with men,
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and I think Pastor O'Ffill
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is going to give us
some biblical counsel
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and address some of
these issues very adeptly,
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don't? I think you can anyway.
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Well I think I'm qualified Kathy
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to do that
because in the first place
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I am a man. That
ought to qualify you.
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Of course, I think those
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who are listening and who
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are watching
ought to know that there
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will be differences of opinion
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and not between
you and I so much,
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right. But we do
live in a time of
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a kind of a revolution.
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Maybe it was a
revolution that we
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needed to have
because of certain
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excesses or even
abuses of the past,
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but we live in a time in which
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there's almost
a kind of a battle
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between the
sexes, between the men
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and the women, absolutely.
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And so in this program
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I'm obviously
probably going to be
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in defense of the men.
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And when was it, a
couple of years ago,
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I was attending
a Men's Convention.
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And the speaker
said, I don't know
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who collected the statistics but
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that someone had done a study
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and there was something
like a thousand commercials,
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TV commercials at that
time making fun of men.
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You know those
things creep up on you.
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They could creep up on you and
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they go through
that over the years
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and then you become
so familiar with it,
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you don't really
realize that it's affecting
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your thinking. Well this,
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I guess a lot of
the programs these days
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have kind of ranked it,
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it's kind of
the woman is the top
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and then the
children you know they're next
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and then the pet is
next and then the husband
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is the donkey as we used to say.
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Do you think
there's a plan behind that?
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Well obviously,
well yes, yes I do.
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God originally had
a plan for the family.
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The human race
though God wants us to come
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to him as individuals.
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The human race
collectively is about family.
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And if the devil
can break our families
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then he's broken our society
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and I think it's intentional,
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I think it's a conspiracy
to destroy the family.
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And however he does
it, whether he would
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do it through the youth,
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whether he would do it
on the side of the women
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or on the side of the
men, it makes no difference.
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There is, do you think that
so called Women Lib Movement
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has anything to do
with this breakdown.
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Well no, I hope
you're gonna be friendly.
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Well we could
get into that maybe
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later more so, we don't have to.
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But in answer to
your question obviously
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as I mentioned a moment ago that
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there is a kind of a revolution,
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and there was a kind of
a reaction of the women,
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and I think that
many of the things
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that have gone
on in recent years
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needed to happen, there were,
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there were inequities.
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Probably the men
were not as compassionate,
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probably more dictatorial,
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even abusive or
whatever, whatever it is
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but I believe that
one mistake doesn't call
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for another, right. And so,
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and so if we were
as men, if we were
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making a mistake,
society in trying to
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correct that mistake
could well make another.
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And so it seems
to me, when you were
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a little girl, did you
ever do the teeter totter,
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yes, yes. You
remember how we would,
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you know on a
teeter totter, obviously to
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make it right you
have to have balance, yes.
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And so you can't have
somebody, you know that's
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25 pounds on one end
and 175 on the other,
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right, unless you care.
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And so, and so I
think in the Christian home,
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it's to be a
balance relationship
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which enables each one to
fulfill its God given place.
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Well you were
mentioning a moment ago about
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the more dominant in the past.
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I was talking to
my daughter Sarah
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about some of these
issues and she was talking
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about in
literature that between the
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13th and the 19th century
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even in
literature the courageous,
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more dominant, more
aggressive attributes
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of character were pushed,
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they were encouraged, yes.
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And at that time
maybe people thought that
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men didn't have
emotions, but that was not so.
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But what was
prominent was courage
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and aggression and
protection and various things
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like that. Now we
seem to have lost it,
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it seems like
men to a large degree
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have become more effeminate.
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Well it is
interesting when you say
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that there was a time in which
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I think the male role
was to be a protector.
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And the scripture
would even I think
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point that out
because it would speak of
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the male as being the stronger;
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we're talking about
physically stronger.
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So the male role
has been to protect
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he children and the women.
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And I think in my own life
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I was trained to be
polite that the women
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should go first,
and when we would ride
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on the bus we were supposed
if we were sitting down,
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we were supposed to stand up.
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Don't you have a
story about that?
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One time I was at a university
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I won't tell where it was,
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but it was there in my tier,
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but I was going to
one of these big buildings
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one day, and there was a,
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you know a young
lady behind me and
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so I opened the door to let her
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in and she rebuked me.
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I was so; I
didn't know what to do.
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All my life I'm
trained to open the
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door for the women, and here I'm
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opening the door
and she's rebuking me.
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And I thought oh
brother I didn't know
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what to say. I
don't know what I did,
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I didn't even remember.
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But I thought
about through the years,
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I thought if that
ever happens to me again.
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And you know; if a
woman were to say to me,
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don't open the door for me.
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I would probably
say maybe I shouldn't
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I probably say
something like this.
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Well I don't open
the door for women;
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I open it for human beings.
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You better make
a point right here,
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you better make a
point right here about not,
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the ideas is
what men ought to do,
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it's not about
bashing women at all is it.
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And I think this
is one of the problems
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that we get into
and as you and I were
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talking before the program
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that we are in a
time of change, yes.
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I think that
men needed to change
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but the question
is not, did we need to
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change or should we change but
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how we will
change, what will we be,
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and I personally as a
leader of Men's Ministries,
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I don't think that
from a man's point of view
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that we resolve our
problems between you and me.
00:08:27.81\00:08:30.82
I don't think this
is about negotiation
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between you and me.
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I think that
originally God made you
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as a woman and
he has expectations
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for you as a woman. Yes.
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And in the same way I believe
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that having made me as a man.
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He has expectations for me,
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so therefore I don't
go to you to find out
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how to be a man.
I think I should go
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to the word of God, good point.
00:08:52.77\00:08:54.36
I should go to the
word of God, good point,
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and find out what
does God expect me to be
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as a man. Absolutely,
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and I agree with that.
00:08:58.16\00:08:59.41
When we were
talking a moment ago
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about men being maybe a
little more effeminate now,
00:09:01.82\00:09:05.28
the courage, the
attributes that I
00:09:05.31\00:09:10.13
was talking about in between
the 13th and 19th century.
00:09:10.16\00:09:12.65
And now love and acceptance
00:09:12.68\00:09:15.44
and tolerance
seems to the big thing
00:09:15.47\00:09:18.15
that's being
pushed, now there's not,
00:09:18.18\00:09:19.57
there's absolutely
nothing wrong with that.
00:09:19.60\00:09:21.39
That also attributes of Christ.
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But Christ was
also courageous what,
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how do we get back to
teaching men to be men.
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Well maybe we don't
have to teach men to be men.
00:09:28.75\00:09:34.63
Let me explain
where I'm coming from.
00:09:34.66\00:09:37.04
I personally
believe if they're having
00:09:37.07\00:09:39.48
trouble we don't
need to teach them how
00:09:39.51\00:09:41.32
do we get this across.
00:09:41.35\00:09:42.47
Listen to what I'm about to say,
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I think
masculinity comes in a package.
00:09:44.01\00:09:49.28
I have four children,
two boys and two girls.
00:09:49.31\00:09:51.77
And I'll never
forget we were over in
00:09:51.80\00:09:54.43
Pakistan where
the youngest little
00:09:54.46\00:09:56.43
boy was born.
00:09:56.46\00:09:57.43
And here he was, I
don't know if he was
00:09:58.63\00:10:01.11
a year and half years old.
00:10:01.14\00:10:02.27
You know a year and a half and
00:10:02.30\00:10:03.45
he's playing in the ground,
00:10:03.48\00:10:04.72
and he's playing
with his little sticks.
00:10:04.75\00:10:06.03
And I'm seeing him,
he's never seen the,
00:10:06.06\00:10:08.56
I don't think, you
know the trucks and cars.
00:10:08.59\00:10:10.39
I mean if he did it was you know
00:10:10.42\00:10:12.24
what would he know about it.
00:10:12.27\00:10:13.24
How would he know that one day,
00:10:13.25\00:10:15.45
you know he would be
or maybe a truck driver
00:10:15.48\00:10:17.11
which he isn't,
but there he was acting
00:10:17.14\00:10:19.82
like a little boy
and then as I watched,
00:10:19.85\00:10:22.43
I thought, strange.
00:10:22.46\00:10:23.43
Where in the
world does he get this,
00:10:23.44\00:10:24.93
and I thought no
it comes with it.
00:10:24.96\00:10:26.19
The little boys
would act like little boys,
00:10:26.22\00:10:28.46
because you know there are
00:10:28.49\00:10:29.46
some who say well its all
00:10:29.47\00:10:31.10
learned you know.
00:10:31.13\00:10:32.17
Now I think what I'm saying and
00:10:32.20\00:10:33.55
I'm not an expert.
00:10:33.58\00:10:34.55
Is that, a boy can
learn to be feminine
00:10:34.56\00:10:37.80
and a girl can
learn to be masculine,
00:10:37.83\00:10:39.46
so, I'm saying all
things being equal,
00:10:39.49\00:10:41.12
but I do think that
if it will go the way
00:10:41.15\00:10:44.91
God meant for
it to go that a boy
00:10:44.94\00:10:46.80
will tend to be masculine.
00:10:46.83\00:10:48.51
A girl will tend to be feminine
00:10:48.54\00:10:50.67
and I think I hear you saying
00:10:50.70\00:10:52.35
we have to
encourage those rules.
00:10:52.38\00:10:54.58
Then you are also by inference
00:10:54.61\00:10:58.30
saying that it could
be trained out of them.
00:10:58.33\00:10:59.88
Well I guess this
is what I'm saying
00:10:59.91\00:11:01.56
and earlier you
mentioned this problem
00:11:01.59\00:11:04.82
of what they call unisex.
00:11:04.85\00:11:06.33
You remember when this
thing got started, yes.
00:11:06.36\00:11:09.59
And I think, I think,
was that back in the 60s.
00:11:09.62\00:11:12.07
I don't know when
it happened, but I
00:11:12.10\00:11:13.55
remember when the
word first came out
00:11:13.58\00:11:16.53
and there's no doubt
that something is going on,
00:11:16.56\00:11:21.01
and I don't
think its God's plan,
00:11:21.04\00:11:24.04
that's trying to
eliminate masculinity
00:11:24.07\00:11:27.31
and eliminate femininity
00:11:27.34\00:11:30.31
and make it all the same.
00:11:30.34\00:11:31.67
And I think that
this is, this is not
00:11:31.70\00:11:33.97
just a strike
against you and me is,
00:11:34.00\00:11:35.85
you as a woman and me as a man,
00:11:35.88\00:11:37.34
but this could be
a strike against our
00:11:37.37\00:11:39.66
creator who made
us male and female.
00:11:39.69\00:11:41.71
Right, do we need
to be careful don't we?
00:11:41.74\00:11:43.95
Well I think, I
think it's important that
00:11:43.98\00:11:47.02
in this time in
which the devil is trying
00:11:47.05\00:11:49.24
to break up the home.
00:11:49.27\00:11:50.72
There's no doubt about that and
00:11:50.75\00:11:52.49
so if he can take,
take the male role out,
00:11:52.52\00:11:55.27
and he can just start
the feminine role, right.
00:11:55.30\00:11:59.54
Then, then he will have
accomplished his purpose.
00:11:59.57\00:12:01.67
Absolutely, but we
don't want that to happen.
00:12:01.70\00:12:04.24
We got to get
back to the what God is
00:12:04.27\00:12:06.42
asking us to be.
00:12:06.45\00:12:07.47
He's coming back again
00:12:07.50\00:12:08.77
and we want to be
able to have homes
00:12:08.80\00:12:12.91
in which they're orderly,
00:12:12.94\00:12:14.95
they're in the
manner in which Christ
00:12:14.98\00:12:18.85
has asked us to be,
but I think there is a
00:12:18.88\00:12:20.01
move on to do that.
00:12:20.04\00:12:22.21
Kathy, I'm persuaded that,
00:12:22.24\00:12:24.08
that in other generations,
00:12:24.11\00:12:28.38
some of these
things happen naturally.
00:12:29.25\00:12:31.06
And they happen
naturally because,
00:12:31.09\00:12:33.72
because of the customs,
00:12:33.75\00:12:34.90
because of the
society, because of church,
00:12:34.93\00:12:36.75
because of the school you know
00:12:36.78\00:12:38.39
all these things,
but this is all down now.
00:12:38.42\00:12:40.82
It seems like it's
a free for all, right.
00:12:40.85\00:12:43.99
And so I'm actually to the place
00:12:44.02\00:12:45.92
where I believe that
unless we get into the
00:12:45.95\00:12:49.25
word of God,
yes. We're gonna lose
00:12:49.28\00:12:51.49
everything. I
remember when I was
00:12:51.52\00:12:52.94
younger and you probably
looking at me and saying
00:12:52.97\00:12:55.40
you probably had
white hair all your life.
00:12:55.43\00:12:57.46
It seems like that,
'cause I began to get white hair
00:12:57.49\00:13:01.75
when I was in my
30s. Well you are not that
00:13:01.78\00:13:03.11
much further than I am.
00:13:03.14\00:13:04.66
No, no but anyway
I remember when I was
00:13:04.69\00:13:06.22
a young man. I
remember them saying
00:13:06.25\00:13:07.69
that in the last
days unless we would be in
00:13:07.72\00:13:11.70
the word we wouldn't make it.
00:13:11.73\00:13:14.25
And you know Kathy,
00:13:14.28\00:13:16.22
I didn't
understand that because,
00:13:16.25\00:13:18.31
because you know
when I was a young man,
00:13:18.34\00:13:21.21
this was the standard.
00:13:21.24\00:13:22.31
This was the standard,
00:13:22.34\00:13:23.39
not that we followed it all,
00:13:23.42\00:13:24.83
not that we never made mistakes,
00:13:24.86\00:13:26.02
but this was the standard, yes.
00:13:26.05\00:13:28.47
And so when I would
hear them say something about
00:13:28.50\00:13:30.06
well in the last days
if we are not in the word
00:13:30.09\00:13:32.21
we won't make it. I
didn't understand that,
00:13:32.24\00:13:33.51
but now I do, yes.
00:13:33.54\00:13:35.51
Because in some way
the scripture seems to
00:13:35.54\00:13:38.72
be sinking as a
standard you know,
00:13:38.75\00:13:40.51
it isn't a standard anymore.
00:13:40.54\00:13:41.72
Society is a
standard these days,
00:13:41.75\00:13:43.68
and I'm
convinced that if we will,
00:13:43.71\00:13:46.82
will do nothing and
let society continue to
00:13:46.85\00:13:49.65
mold us, particularly in
respect to our masculinity
00:13:49.68\00:13:53.18
and our femininity,
we're gonna lose it.
00:13:53.21\00:13:54.97
I really believe
that. We don't want that.
00:13:55.00\00:13:59.06
I don't want that, no, no.
00:13:59.09\00:14:00.30
My daughter is
coming up marriageable age,
00:14:00.33\00:14:04.10
and I don't want
that. I want the right
00:14:04.13\00:14:05.30
kind of family and a man for her
00:14:05.33\00:14:07.87
and that's what
we're praying for.
00:14:07.90\00:14:09.15
You know I've
enjoyed getting to know
00:14:09.18\00:14:11.79
your daughters
and Sarah who is away
00:14:11.82\00:14:14.18
at college and
when I saw her I said,
00:14:14.21\00:14:18.03
they like calling you grandpa.
00:14:18.06\00:14:19.05
I said to Sarah, I
said you know Sarah,
00:14:19.08\00:14:21.50
your husband's out
there some place right
00:14:21.53\00:14:22.83
now right today.
00:14:22.86\00:14:23.83
You don't know where he's at,
00:14:23.84\00:14:25.44
but it's time to
start praying for him.
00:14:25.47\00:14:27.18
Yes and have been for sometime.
00:14:27.21\00:14:29.62
And praying for his family, yes.
00:14:29.65\00:14:31.07
Praying that he'll
be the man that God
00:14:31.10\00:14:33.54
meant for him. Right
because this crisis is real.
00:14:33.57\00:14:35.27
Oh it is. It's
real. Now let's talk
00:14:35.30\00:14:37.86
a little about
when women go aggressive
00:14:37.89\00:14:40.12
and men become passive,
00:14:40.15\00:14:41.37
what can you say about that?
00:14:41.40\00:14:42.37
Now Kathy, am I among friends.
00:14:42.38\00:14:43.67
Yes, I think so. I mean I can
00:14:43.70\00:14:45.96
get aggressive,
but these cameras do
00:14:45.99\00:14:47.56
things to me.
00:14:47.59\00:14:48.56
Do you remember
when back, back years ago
00:14:48.57\00:14:51.45
they were talking about
the women in her rolling
00:14:51.48\00:14:53.29
pin remember that was
always, yes, you know that
00:14:53.32\00:14:54.98
the wife chasing her
husband with the rolling pin.
00:14:55.01\00:14:56.53
Yes, I didn't like
that. Well, I don't know
00:14:56.56\00:14:59.78
where it came from
but it was the joke,
00:14:59.81\00:15:01.06
I know it, I know.
00:15:01.09\00:15:02.42
So I wanna make
sure you don't have
00:15:02.45\00:15:04.12
any rolling pins. No, I don't.
00:15:04.15\00:15:05.48
There is one
back at the apartment.
00:15:05.51\00:15:07.13
Now let me tell
you where I am coming
00:15:08.09\00:15:09.62
from and I didn't
make this up unless you
00:15:09.65\00:15:11.86
and I talk about.
00:15:11.89\00:15:12.86
This person was
saying that there's only
00:15:12.87\00:15:16.58
so much masculinity or
femininity to go around,
00:15:16.61\00:15:19.90
and the person said
that when women begin
00:15:20.97\00:15:23.94
to get more masculine,
00:15:23.97\00:15:26.59
that men will begin
to get more feminine.
00:15:26.62\00:15:30.52
Now let's
extrapolate this a little bit.
00:15:30.55\00:15:33.50
We men, some could argue and say
00:15:33.53\00:15:36.85
it shouldn't be that way,
00:15:36.88\00:15:37.85
we were made to
be the aggressor.
00:15:37.86\00:15:39.52
I can remember
when I was a young man
00:15:40.29\00:15:41.90
it was the boys
who asked the girls
00:15:41.93\00:15:43.79
out for dates, yes, not
necessarily anymore, yes.
00:15:43.82\00:15:46.06
Now where every man could wish
00:15:46.09\00:15:49.14
that he could be
chased by a beautiful girl.
00:15:49.17\00:15:50.92
When beautiful
girls start chasing him
00:15:52.25\00:15:53.97
he doesn't know what
to do about. He changes.
00:15:54.00\00:15:56.36
He changes
because that's not a role.
00:15:56.39\00:15:59.54
It actually emasculates us
and so we live in a society
00:15:59.57\00:16:04.91
in which and I am not
talking Kathy about equal pay
00:16:04.94\00:16:10.24
for equal work, we're
talking about roles, yes.
00:16:10.27\00:16:13.67
Being men and being women,
00:16:13.70\00:16:15.22
so I think that
as women have in the
00:16:15.25\00:16:19.20
society become
more and more aggressive
00:16:19.23\00:16:21.43
that
commensurate this men content
00:16:22.62\00:16:24.85
to be more
passive, and the reason I
00:16:24.88\00:16:27.24
say this is
because we men by instinct
00:16:27.27\00:16:30.02
are very
aggressive, in other words with
00:16:30.05\00:16:32.08
each other. Highly competitive
00:16:32.11\00:16:35.28
but guess what
there's something about
00:16:35.31\00:16:37.96
us we do not compete with women.
00:16:37.99\00:16:41.21
In other words if
women get to be real
00:16:41.66\00:16:44.04
dominant in
something guess what we do,
00:16:44.07\00:16:46.64
just back off, we just
back off let them have it.
00:16:46.67\00:16:49.07
And so this is the problem.
00:16:50.12\00:16:51.60
Do you think that's inherent?
00:16:51.63\00:16:53.29
Well you know some could debate
00:16:54.01\00:16:55.53
that you know some
of the people out there
00:16:55.56\00:16:56.95
might say well
O'Ffill that's your problem.
00:16:56.98\00:16:58.85
But really we men are this way
00:16:58.88\00:17:02.16
and so I guess again it
isn't will women fulfill
00:17:02.19\00:17:08.65
a particular
role, the issue isn't
00:17:08.68\00:17:10.84
have men been dictatorial
00:17:10.87\00:17:13.54
or you know have
they put the women down,
00:17:13.57\00:17:15.71
probably so. But the issue now
00:17:15.74\00:17:19.07
is how are we going
to get this right, yes.
00:17:19.10\00:17:21.83
And of course, and there will be
00:17:21.86\00:17:23.22
those out there
questioning whether
00:17:23.25\00:17:24.99
it needs to be
gotten right or not.
00:17:25.02\00:17:26.77
Well that's the
point to see and because
00:17:26.80\00:17:28.08
of this of the unisex concept.
00:17:28.11\00:17:30.20
Right, but if
we're studying God's word
00:17:30.23\00:17:31.93
we know that
something has to happen,
00:17:31.96\00:17:33.43
something has to change.
00:17:33.46\00:17:34.70
Well the status
quo, it can't be the way
00:17:34.73\00:17:37.81
it was and I feel
it can't be the way
00:17:37.84\00:17:40.26
it is because surely
this is not the solution.
00:17:40.29\00:17:43.20
But since the
Teeter Totter, the coming
00:17:43.23\00:17:44.66
to a balance of those things
00:17:44.69\00:17:46.23
that were once
thought coming to coupling
00:17:46.26\00:17:50.16
with those things that
are the more passive trades,
00:17:50.19\00:17:55.42
the love, the gentleness,
00:17:55.45\00:17:57.24
the kinder ways of
handling the family,
00:17:57.27\00:18:00.25
the wife, the children,
00:18:00.28\00:18:01.88
and since we're
talking about husbands.
00:18:01.91\00:18:03.09
Those two things put together
00:18:03.12\00:18:07.04
and we're going to
have to come to surrender,
00:18:07.07\00:18:10.27
to critiquing
ourselves don't you think.
00:18:11.49\00:18:13.70
Wise men have to
critique themselves.
00:18:13.73\00:18:15.88
Why do men try
to avoid doing that,
00:18:15.91\00:18:18.09
I want you to tell me that.
00:18:18.12\00:18:19.29
Well, we men now we appear
00:18:19.32\00:18:22.61
to be really you
know, tough and egotistical
00:18:22.64\00:18:25.31
you know, and
strong, but it's very, very,
00:18:25.34\00:18:28.22
it's very thin. Well, you can
00:18:28.25\00:18:31.71
critique yourself on your job.
00:18:31.74\00:18:32.79
Well, what I am
saying is that that we men
00:18:32.82\00:18:35.86
have been made,
made to believe that,
00:18:35.89\00:18:38.40
if we admit our mistakes, yes,
00:18:38.43\00:18:40.84
people will lose respect for us.
00:18:40.87\00:18:42.29
And I was talking to a
man one time and he said,
00:18:42.32\00:18:47.58
well if I admit I
am wrong my family
00:18:47.61\00:18:49.41
will lose respect for me.
00:18:49.44\00:18:51.05
I said no son;
they've already lost
00:18:51.08\00:18:54.43
respect for you. I
said, if you'll admit,
00:18:54.46\00:18:56.62
if you'll admit
you're wrong you will get
00:18:56.65\00:18:58.52
respect, right,
right, but again,
00:18:58.55\00:19:00.59
and God teaches us that.
00:19:00.62\00:19:01.59
I believe he
that humbles himself
00:19:01.60\00:19:03.23
should be exalted, right, right.
00:19:03.26\00:19:04.55
But its hard for a
man because of the way
00:19:04.58\00:19:07.80
we're made, to
admit we're wrong.
00:19:07.83\00:19:10.10
And I think that
there's wonderful
00:19:10.13\00:19:12.47
things coming out
of this revolution.
00:19:12.50\00:19:14.00
There is, if on
admitting that he's wrong.
00:19:14.03\00:19:19.86
Do you think it's
harder for him to admit
00:19:19.89\00:19:22.92
that he's wrong
now than ever before?
00:19:22.95\00:19:25.12
Well, well I
don't know what you,
00:19:26.71\00:19:29.44
what you have in your
mind that I might say,
00:19:29.47\00:19:31.62
I would say probably
no because he's been,
00:19:31.65\00:19:33.48
remember if you
put a person down
00:19:33.51\00:19:35.06
more and more and more,
00:19:35.09\00:19:36.13
then pretty soon he gives up.
00:19:36.16\00:19:37.99
And so, if, if as we
said at the beginning
00:19:38.85\00:19:41.62
of the program,
if, if they're making
00:19:41.65\00:19:43.53
fun of men more and more than
00:19:43.56\00:19:46.05
a man looses self respect, yes.
00:19:46.08\00:19:48.73
You see, one of the
things that I worry about we,
00:19:48.76\00:19:50.94
we have a
particular role which is a,
00:19:50.97\00:19:53.38
which is a very
physical role as protector,
00:19:53.41\00:19:56.61
but in the intimate
setting as the fathers, yes.
00:19:56.64\00:19:59.70
As the fathers
and as the husbands.
00:19:59.73\00:20:01.20
Well, you see, if, if
this society takes away
00:20:01.23\00:20:04.57
every, every exalted
part of our relationship
00:20:04.60\00:20:08.48
and leaves only
the sexual part, yes.
00:20:08.51\00:20:10.77
It just turns us into you know,
00:20:10.80\00:20:13.19
animals, animal studs, yes.
00:20:13.22\00:20:15.43
And so, and so this is
what I think is happening to,
00:20:15.46\00:20:18.22
to some extend
because a man is by
00:20:18.25\00:20:21.01
nature he tends
to be testosterone
00:20:21.04\00:20:22.85
driven anyway, yes.
00:20:22.88\00:20:24.42
And so, and so it's, it's
these more civilized more,
00:20:24.45\00:20:29.20
more cultured, more
spiritual things that he needs.
00:20:29.23\00:20:32.15
You see, this is one of
the problems Kathy that we
00:20:32.18\00:20:33.96
haven't talked about yet because
00:20:33.99\00:20:35.55
even in the
church, in recent years
00:20:35.58\00:20:38.61
there's been a
trend to give the women
00:20:38.64\00:20:40.62
a higher and higher role, yes.
00:20:40.65\00:20:42.57
Well anybody
knows that women are,
00:20:42.60\00:20:44.48
I don't know whether
I could say they're born
00:20:44.51\00:20:46.48
more spiritual than
men, in other words they tend
00:20:46.51\00:20:49.38
to be more spiritual.
00:20:49.41\00:20:50.58
They tend to respond
to it, it seems like.
00:20:50.61\00:20:52.34
And, so, so watch
what happens then so, so
00:20:52.37\00:20:55.10
even the church then
as the church gives a
00:20:55.13\00:20:58.18
higher and higher role
to women in the church,
00:20:58.21\00:21:01.39
where are the men going?
00:21:01.42\00:21:02.70
They begin to back
out, so, so really I'm
00:21:02.73\00:21:05.88
not talking
about the role of women
00:21:05.91\00:21:08.09
in the church,
but in someway we've
00:21:08.12\00:21:10.23
got to realize that
as long as the husband
00:21:10.26\00:21:13.65
is spiritually
weak, as long as a man
00:21:13.68\00:21:15.43
is spiritually
weak, the home is flawed.
00:21:15.46\00:21:17.60
If we, if we
leave the man only with
00:21:18.37\00:21:20.88
the reproductive
function in the family, yes.
00:21:20.91\00:21:23.18
We would have, we will
have destroyed the home.
00:21:23.95\00:21:26.12
And yes, and
the man. Absolutely,
00:21:26.15\00:21:28.44
and what about our
sons, and of course,
00:21:28.47\00:21:31.56
of course there are so
many single parent homes
00:21:31.59\00:21:34.31
and we're so
thankful for the tremendous
00:21:34.34\00:21:37.51
sacrifice that yes, that
that, that so many women make
00:21:37.54\00:21:41.52
and, and men too.
00:21:41.55\00:21:42.52
But God meant for us not to have
00:21:42.53\00:21:46.62
single parent
homes. Right, that was not
00:21:46.65\00:21:49.01
his intention. And,
and so the little boys
00:21:49.04\00:21:50.26
were supposed to learn
to be men from their daddies
00:21:50.29\00:21:53.62
who are supposed to be men.
00:21:53.65\00:21:54.74
And the little girls are
supposed to be learn to be
00:21:54.77\00:21:56.69
women from their
mothers who are supposed
00:21:56.72\00:21:58.06
to be women, yes.
And so, that's being
00:21:58.09\00:22:00.55
all blurred. Well, I often think
00:22:00.58\00:22:03.62
of the pioneer days
and something like that.
00:22:03.65\00:22:05.48
How did somebody
who lost their husbands
00:22:05.51\00:22:07.77
bring up a real
man in their son,
00:22:07.80\00:22:10.35
that was done.
Well, it was done, but
00:22:10.38\00:22:12.41
apparently Kathy
there were other models,
00:22:12.44\00:22:14.96
there were other
models, there were uncles,
00:22:14.99\00:22:17.04
community, and
the community, yes.
00:22:17.07\00:22:18.86
There were grandpas,
for family, absolutely
00:22:18.89\00:22:20.31
and we're not
saying and we wouldn't want
00:22:20.34\00:22:22.04
to be disrespectful or to hurt,
00:22:22.07\00:22:23.46
anyone who might
be joining us, but,
00:22:23.49\00:22:26.87
but still in the
ideal and we must be pushing
00:22:26.90\00:22:29.86
toward the ideal.
Is our lives about
00:22:29.89\00:22:31.62
the ideal, no our
lives are the real,
00:22:31.65\00:22:34.25
but if we don't have
an ideal then we begin
00:22:34.28\00:22:37.09
to accept the normal as abnormal
00:22:37.12\00:22:38.93
and the
unacceptable as acceptable.
00:22:38.96\00:22:41.46
Right, you know, I
want to put in here
00:22:41.49\00:22:43.27
for the viewers,
if there is a subject
00:22:43.30\00:22:46.21
or topic on
family life in the future
00:22:46.24\00:22:49.27
that you want to see
on Thinking About Home,
00:22:49.30\00:22:51.89
then call or write
at the number or address
00:22:51.92\00:22:55.49
that you will see
on your screen to 3ABN.
00:22:55.52\00:22:59.37
And give us your
opinion, give us a suggestion,
00:22:59.40\00:23:02.87
we might be able
to handle some topics
00:23:02.90\00:23:05.53
that you might be
especially interested in.
00:23:05.56\00:23:07.49
And I wanted to get
that in there before
00:23:07.52\00:23:09.17
the program was
over. So, just call
00:23:09.20\00:23:12.08
or write to 3ABN
about future topics
00:23:12.11\00:23:15.99
that you might want to
hear on Thinking About Home,
00:23:16.02\00:23:18.36
mention Kathy
Matthews, and mention
00:23:18.39\00:23:20.53
Thinking About
Home and we'll really
00:23:20.56\00:23:23.17
enjoy hearing from you.
00:23:23.20\00:23:24.20
And we've got a
few minutes left Dick.
00:23:24.23\00:23:27.02
I want to see if we can
get into respect from wives.
00:23:27.05\00:23:30.99
How about, how
can a man gain respect
00:23:31.02\00:23:37.53
from his wife?
Well, I hear where you're
00:23:37.56\00:23:39.99
coming from, I am
reading between the lines.
00:23:40.02\00:23:41.55
Do we have enough
time to deal with that,
00:23:41.58\00:23:43.41
we don't have a lot of time?
00:23:43.44\00:23:44.41
Well let me just say this
00:23:44.42\00:23:45.48
that the
scripture commands the wife
00:23:45.51\00:23:50.39
to respect her husband.
00:23:50.42\00:23:51.98
And I think, when
I've talked with wives
00:23:52.01\00:23:53.38
before is one of
the hardest things
00:23:53.41\00:23:54.78
to do, is for a wife
to respect her husband
00:23:54.81\00:23:58.52
especially under
certain conditions.
00:23:58.55\00:23:59.63
Do you know I
think there's a positive
00:23:59.66\00:24:01.47
story I can tell
about that you know,
00:24:01.50\00:24:03.31
I do a lot of
teaching about prayer.
00:24:03.34\00:24:04.63
Yes, you have a book
called Transforming Prayer,
00:24:04.66\00:24:06.68
Transforming Prayer.
I'm reading that right now,
00:24:06.71\00:24:08.05
I really appreciate it.
00:24:08.08\00:24:09.05
I hope it's a
blessing to you. It is.
00:24:09.06\00:24:10.03
Anyway, one time I
was talking with a woman
00:24:10.04\00:24:12.95
and she said, you
know, my husband and I
00:24:12.98\00:24:14.70
went home and we prayed together
00:24:14.73\00:24:17.03
for the first time last night.
00:24:17.06\00:24:18.98
She said, I have so
much respect for him.
00:24:19.01\00:24:22.04
It went up immediately.
00:24:22.07\00:24:23.04
And so, I think
that we as men need
00:24:23.05\00:24:25.91
to earn the
respect of our wives,
00:24:25.94\00:24:29.52
while the
scripture really enjoins
00:24:29.55\00:24:31.17
the wife to respect her husband.
00:24:31.20\00:24:32.77
Now she could
say, well I don't have
00:24:32.80\00:24:34.95
to respect him
and I have no reason
00:24:34.98\00:24:36.09
to be respect
him. Well, it's says
00:24:36.12\00:24:37.56
honor your father and mother,
00:24:37.59\00:24:38.71
and it doesn't say
honor your good ones
00:24:38.74\00:24:40.37
and not the bad ones,
right. So, the women's
00:24:40.40\00:24:42.69
task is to honor her
husband and to honor her
00:24:42.72\00:24:46.38
father of course,
but we men and I think
00:24:46.41\00:24:48.53
especially in this
time we need to learn
00:24:48.56\00:24:51.84
to change, we can't
be what we always were.
00:24:51.87\00:24:54.26
But I don't think
that we should go from
00:24:54.29\00:24:57.07
one extreme to the
next, I do think that
00:24:57.10\00:24:59.59
where we might have been tough
00:24:59.62\00:25:00.88
and macho in
another generations.
00:25:00.91\00:25:02.69
I do think we need to be kind.
00:25:02.72\00:25:04.90
I think we need to be gentle,
00:25:04.93\00:25:06.82
I think we need you
know to be more respectful.
00:25:06.85\00:25:10.49
Yeah, but you
need to be courageous
00:25:10.52\00:25:12.95
and protectors,
well and providers.
00:25:12.98\00:25:15.60
But provider
seems to be the thing
00:25:15.63\00:25:18.20
that every man gets
his value from today,
00:25:18.23\00:25:21.04
if he's a good worker
or if he's got the job
00:25:21.07\00:25:23.54
that everybody is hunting for,
00:25:23.57\00:25:25.37
then he's okay and
all his role is filled,
00:25:25.40\00:25:28.45
but that's hardly
all there is to it.
00:25:28.48\00:25:31.06
Protector to me is
to protect me verbally,
00:25:31.09\00:25:34.44
when I'm hurt.
Yes, good, good, good.
00:25:34.47\00:25:36.50
It's to put
verbally your arm around me,
00:25:36.53\00:25:39.03
when someone else
might have sinned against me,
00:25:39.06\00:25:41.05
protect me. It doesn't just mean
00:25:41.08\00:25:44.35
some caveman
style of protection,
00:25:44.38\00:25:46.53
for what that's
worth, but if that's
00:25:46.56\00:25:51.61
what gives me respect
is, and the spiritual leader.
00:25:51.64\00:25:54.43
Being a spiritual
leader, and not shirking that.
00:25:55.47\00:25:57.77
I am not saying
oh well you go do it,
00:25:57.80\00:26:00.10
I've got something
else I need to do, right.
00:26:00.13\00:26:01.83
If, if you want respect from me,
00:26:01.86\00:26:04.49
it's not just, it's not
merely making a living, no.
00:26:04.52\00:26:08.75
Now, I can go down in
hurry if he's not making
00:26:08.78\00:26:10.84
a living as well, but if
these others are left out.
00:26:10.87\00:26:15.25
I can loose
respect. I know a couple that
00:26:15.28\00:26:19.66
we worked with,
where this has been
00:26:19.69\00:26:21.64
a problem with a young man, who,
00:26:21.67\00:26:23.36
who was brought up in such a way
00:26:23.39\00:26:24.64
that he did not
have what he needed
00:26:24.67\00:26:26.78
to provide for her
and they're struggling,
00:26:26.81\00:26:29.47
Christianity, Christianity
has been really difficult.
00:26:29.50\00:26:31.82
Oh, I suppose, I
suppose. And she is a go-getter
00:26:31.85\00:26:33.38
and for her to
learn to surrender,
00:26:33.41\00:26:34.72
that's been hard, right.
00:26:34.75\00:26:36.68
And for him to
learn to lead spiritually
00:26:36.71\00:26:39.41
as well as
protecting and providing
00:26:39.44\00:26:41.39
that's been difficult. Men, we
00:26:41.42\00:26:44.35
do need a change.
Oh, yeah, and, and, and
00:26:44.38\00:26:47.44
we must change, we
can't go on the way
00:26:47.47\00:26:49.36
where we were,
but we must become
00:26:49.39\00:26:51.21
what God meant for us.
00:26:51.24\00:26:52.75
And well you're going
to be back with us now,
00:26:52.78\00:26:55.36
aren't you Dick? I sure am.
00:26:55.39\00:26:56.61
We're gonna be talking
about several different
00:26:56.64\00:26:58.28
things actually I
want to inform our viewers
00:26:58.31\00:27:01.11
that we're going to be
talking about grandparents.
00:27:01.14\00:27:05.01
We're going to be
talking about young people.
00:27:05.04\00:27:07.33
We're going to be
talking about old age.
00:27:07.36\00:27:09.21
We're going to be
talking about wives,
00:27:09.24\00:27:10.28
and fathers. So,
don't think that every time
00:27:10.31\00:27:14.15
you have see
Pastor O'Ffill on here
00:27:14.18\00:27:15.49
that's last
program 'cause it won't be.
00:27:15.52\00:27:17.32
I want to invite
you to join us in
00:27:17.35\00:27:20.58
prayer as we go out.
00:27:20.61\00:27:22.35
We want to help you to know that
00:27:22.38\00:27:25.29
we are praying for
you that our hearts
00:27:25.32\00:27:27.86
are really into
home and as you start
00:27:27.89\00:27:30.27
preparing for the heavenly home,
00:27:30.30\00:27:32.24
you pray with us now.
00:27:32.27\00:27:35.44
Heavenly Father,
we're so thankful
00:27:35.47\00:27:37.15
for the home.
And Lord we've been
00:27:37.18\00:27:39.42
talking about men today,
00:27:39.45\00:27:40.62
and we want to
be the men of God,
00:27:40.65\00:27:43.48
yes, that you
meant for us to be.
00:27:43.51\00:27:44.94
Oh, Lord we
recognize that there are
00:27:46.04\00:27:48.02
those things out
there in society,
00:27:48.05\00:27:50.01
which are the
enemies of our homes.
00:27:50.04\00:27:51.67
We also recognize
the importance that that
00:27:51.70\00:27:54.66
we as men, be the
men that you meant for
00:27:54.69\00:27:57.74
us to be Lord and
that we don't let society.
00:27:57.77\00:27:59.74