Hello again, I am
Kathy Matthews and this is
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Thinking About
Home. One of the most
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difficult areas is
divorce and we have so many
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homes broken up by
divorce and that's going to be
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our topic today. Is
divorce and going on to divorce
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recovery? I am not sure
if we are gonna get divorce
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recovery today, but we
have with us Dr. David Scdlacck
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from Weimar Institute
in Weimar, California.
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Welcome. Well thank
you so much. I am glad
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that you are here to
talk about this today, I think
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this has been a request
of our viewers something that
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they wanted to deal
with and can you help us to
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understand how widespread
the problem of divorcees
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in our country and in the
world today? Well divorce,
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about a 100 years ago
occurred maybe five out of
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a hundred marriages,
but today the statistics are
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staggering because
divorce occurs in at least
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50 percent, the probability
is half of all people
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who are getting
married today are gonna end up
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in a divorce. And
how is that compared to
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the Church of the world's
population to the church?
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Well you know that's a
really interesting thing
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too, because what we
find in research today
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is that the divorce
rate in the church is equal
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to that in the world
and you know there was a,
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about three weeks ago in
the Sacramento Bee there was an
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article that asked
about, that surveyed statistics
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of divorce in this
country and you know the
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highest rates of
divorce are where do you think?
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It's in the Bible belt
countries. Why? You know
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well let me just show
what the statistics first
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I mean that's a staggering
thing and people are asking
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themselves why that. The
number one state in divorce
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is of course Nevada. Yes
well, but the four following
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ones are Tennessee,
Oklahoma, Alabama, and
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Arkansas, really? In
terms of the highest rate of
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divorce and divorce rates
in those Bible belt states
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are about one and a half
times as much as they are
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in the country in
general. And people were asking
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themselves, why is this
so and they postulated things
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like you know
economic, status is low there
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and people tend to
get married earlier there,
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but I am wondering if
there may not be some type of
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rebound effect that's
going on in terms of people,
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who almost feel like
divorces is so wrong and
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Biblically we know
that it is, but it's drummed
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into you and you are
not adequately prepared
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for the institute of
marriage then what ends
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up happening is that, it's
almost like it catches up to
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you in the long run. And
I think that's probably what
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we're tending to see.
Well God has a view of
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divorce. Can you help us
to understand what it is?
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If we want to understand
God's view of divorce,
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let's go to God's
word and find out exactly,
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what he has to say.
Okay. So let's begin in
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Mathew Chapter 19 Verses
3-9, He says, The Pharisees
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also came unto him, tempting
him, and saying unto him,
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Is it lawful for a
man to put away his wife
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for every cause? And he
answered and said unto them,
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Have ye not read, that
he which made them at the
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beginning MADE
THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
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And said, FOR THIS
CAUSE SHALL A MAN LEAVE FATHER
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AND MOTHER AND
SHALL CLEAVE TO HIS WIFE.
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AND THEY TWAIN
SHALL BE ONE FLESH?
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Wherefore they are no
more twain, but one flesh.
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What therefore God
hath joined together,
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let not man put
asunder. They say unto him,
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Why did Moses then
command to give a writing of
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divorcement, and to put
her away? He saith unto them,
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Moses because of the
hardness of your hearts
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suffered you to put
away your wives: but from the
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beginning it was not so.
And I say unto you, Whosoever
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shall put away his
wife, except it be for
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fornication, and
shall marry another,
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committeth adultery:
and whoso marrieth her
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which is put away
doth commit adultery.
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Then God's view of divorce
is a strong one isn't it?
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It certainly is, first
of all marriages meant to be
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between a man and a woman
and what man puts together,
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I mean what God puts
together man has no right
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to separate or to put
it, to break a covenant,
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to break a covenant. Well
that's exactly what it is?
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Marriage is meant to
represent the covenant
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between God and Man,
between Christ and his bride.
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And if marriage
represents a covenant, which is
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unbreakable you see
God never will break that
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covenant with us and so
God does not want us to break
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the symbol of that
covenant, which is what
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marriage is? That's
the first reason that God
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hates divorce, but the
second reason is because
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it creates such damage in
the lives of human beings.
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And God hates to have
human beings hurt. It hurts
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the husband, it hurts the
wife, and it certainly hurts
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the children. And will hurts
others outside of that too.
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There is a lot of pain
involved in that divorce.
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It's certainly is, not
just the family. The whole
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system; whether it be
the extended family system,
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whether it would be the
church system, now we are
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going to talk about
the damage in all of those
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systems in a little
bit. Well God permits it in
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case of adultery, is
there any other reason that he
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may permit divorce.
Well that is the only sin
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that God permits to
bring about a divorce and even
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in the context of adultery,
it doesn't mean that God
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is condoning or the
God really wants divorce,
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right, because there is a
redemptive element that God
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expects in the Christian
world. Right, where one
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does not have to divorce
or he can choose to forgive.
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Yeah, yes, you know
unfortunately, what many
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people do is; things are
going so badly and they are
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looking for a way out and
they say, right, we should
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commit adultery and if you
commit adultery that's gonna
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be my ticket to freedom,
but that is the only sin
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that God uses, that
gives us the permission of
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adultery, because of the
broken covenant. But I want
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to go to another scripture
Kathy, okay, I would like to
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go to 1st Corinthians
Chapter 7 and read verses 5-10,
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and see what God has
to tell us there. It says,
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And unto the married
I command, yet not I,
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but the Lord, Let not
the wife depart from her
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husband: But and if
she depart, let her remain
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unmarried, or be
reconciled to her husband:
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and let not the
husband put away his wife.
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But to the rest speak I,
not the Lord: If any brother
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hath a wife that believeth
not, and she is pleased
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to dwell with him,
let him not put her away.
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And the woman which hath
an husband that believeth not,
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and if he be pleased to
dwell with her, let her not
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leave him. For the
unbelieving husband
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is sanctified by the
wife and the unbelieving wife
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is sanctified by the
husband: else were your children
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unclean: but now are they
holy. But if the unbelieving
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depart, let him depart, a
brother or a sister is not
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under bondage in
such a case: but God hath
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called us to peace. And
so in a situation, where
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you have a marriage
between a Christian and a
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non-Christian; first
Corinthians is telling us
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that if the husband or
the wife wants to leave
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in that situation,
let them leave, which one,
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does it matter? No. The
believer or the unbeliever.
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If the unbeliever wants
to leave, not the believer,
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right okay alright. If
the unbeliever wants to
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leave, then we have to
let them leave and the Bible
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says something very
interesting here which some
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Christian counselors
have interpreted as being
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another reason, why
the person maybe free to be
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remarry and that is, it
says a brother or a sister
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is not under bondage in
such cases, now this is not
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a sin, this is simply
a marriage circumstance
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between a believer
and an unbeliever and so
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its possible that the
Lord is also using this as
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a way of giving freedom to
someone, who is a Christian,
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right, to perhaps remarry
at some point in the future.
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Right, and that
would soothe some hearts,
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it might, because there
are some people who are sincere
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believers who long to be in
a marriage relationship, right
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and don't want to
displease God, exactly right.
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And they are under this
burden of, is alright for
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me to get remarried
and again this may be one
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possibility that could
be looked at where God would
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approve of a remarriage.
Yeah, well that would be
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like I said something that
would really soothe hearts,
00:10:04.49\00:10:07.73
what would you
recommend though, when a person
00:10:07.76\00:10:10.97
is in an abusive
situation or children or wife?
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You know I want to
make it very, very clear
00:10:15.48\00:10:18.61
that when we are talking
about God hating divorce,
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he is not saying to us
well, you are in a situation,
00:10:22.36\00:10:27.08
where you are married
and now you just stuck
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and you have no recourse,
even if you are being abused
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or even if your children
are being damaged by this,
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this is a very
particular situation, where God
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does not expect a wife
or sometimes even a husband
00:10:39.64\00:10:43.41
to be abused either verbally
or physically or sexually
00:10:43.90\00:10:47.81
abused and have to
put up with the without
00:10:47.84\00:10:51.20
some recourse, in this
kind of a situation the first
00:10:51.23\00:10:54.55
issue and this is
legally as well as morally
00:10:55.06\00:10:58.19
is the safety of the
wife and of the children.
00:10:58.22\00:11:01.28
And so in this situation,
if there is a word abuse
00:11:01.89\00:11:05.43
going on; the first thing
is find a safe place, right,
00:11:05.46\00:11:10.09
find a safe place for
you and for your children.
00:11:10.74\00:11:13.54
God does not expect us
to give our lives in that
00:11:14.48\00:11:16.69
kind of situation in
order to beat up, right,
00:11:16.72\00:11:18.88
for the sake of the
marriage relationship. Once you
00:11:18.91\00:11:23.30
are in a safe place, then
you can begin taking a look
00:11:23.33\00:11:26.30
at what happened and
what can possibly happen to
00:11:26.33\00:11:30.32
repair the situation,
thinking can become more
00:11:30.35\00:11:33.78
clear. Exactly, exactly
should we go to counseling,
00:11:33.81\00:11:36.91
shouldn't we go to
counseling. What do I need
00:11:36.94\00:11:40.73
to do in order to make
this marriage real healthy
00:11:40.76\00:11:43.71
marriage to make it work,
if it can be, if it can be.
00:11:43.74\00:11:46.72
And so the point here
though is abuse does not
00:11:47.96\00:11:52.43
give us license for divorce.
Unfortunately God is very
00:11:52.46\00:11:57.00
clear that, that even
though abuse is sinful and abuse
00:11:57.03\00:12:01.37
is very harmful, abuse
does not give us reason for
00:12:01.40\00:12:05.50
divorce. But divorce
is an acceptable thing,
00:12:05.53\00:12:14.27
if the one can't take
it the abuse? No. Why? Well
00:12:15.27\00:12:23.57
the Bible is clear that
the only case for divorce
00:12:23.60\00:12:27.19
is adultery, however
there is another legal recourse
00:12:27.22\00:12:31.92
which people have and
that is the recourse of legal
00:12:31.95\00:12:34.87
separation. Okay so
then, we want to make it clear,
00:12:34.90\00:12:38.70
there is another
option that isn't divorce,
00:12:38.73\00:12:40.65
legal separation would be
that option. That's right,
00:12:40.68\00:12:43.94
and sometimes legal
separation is necessary
00:12:43.97\00:12:46.62
from the point of view
of economics in other words
00:12:46.65\00:12:50.90
that the children can
get support from the spouse,
00:12:50.93\00:12:55.15
who left as well as from
the point of view of safety,
00:12:55.18\00:12:59.59
for those two issues
some times legal separation
00:12:59.62\00:13:02.10
is a necessary,
but unfortunate option.
00:13:02.75\00:13:05.95
But if you are looking at
God's view, divorce is not
00:13:05.98\00:13:09.67
necessarily what you
must do or need to do.
00:13:09.70\00:13:12.13
That's right in that
situation unless there has
00:13:12.16\00:13:14.46
been infidelity along
with it, okay, there, then
00:13:14.49\00:13:16.99
of course, then a
person, the person is free to
00:13:17.02\00:13:19.64
divorce and be married, if
they choose, if they choose.
00:13:19.67\00:13:22.18
Okay. Well you know that
makes me think of something,
00:13:22.21\00:13:25.12
when we are talking
about divorce a moment ago,
00:13:25.15\00:13:27.19
I had a thought about
God reserves the right
00:13:28.47\00:13:31.32
to divorce his people,
if they become unfaithful.
00:13:31.35\00:13:34.74
Well you know it's very
interesting, I have studied
00:13:35.71\00:13:38.89
the scripture on that
subject, God is in a covenant
00:13:38.92\00:13:43.95
with us that lasts
forever. God never divorces us,
00:13:43.98\00:13:48.44
never wants in the
scripture do I see the God
00:13:48.47\00:13:51.57
divorced us, however,
we have left him and in
00:13:51.60\00:13:56.88
us leaving him he leaves
us to the consequences of our
00:13:57.67\00:14:02.60
choices, but his love for
us never ends. His love for us
00:14:02.63\00:14:07.52
and his longing for
us, even the story of Hosea
00:14:07.55\00:14:10.61
and his wife, who was
a prostitute even after
00:14:10.64\00:14:14.13
marriage continued
going out on him God
00:14:14.16\00:14:17.27
instructed him and this
is an example for the kind of
00:14:17.30\00:14:20.87
healing that God
wants to bring about even in
00:14:20.90\00:14:23.30
marriages, where there
is danger of divorce that
00:14:23.33\00:14:26.97
just as I never left you
and I told, Hosea never to
00:14:27.00\00:14:34.01
leave Gomer, but to
continue pursue her, right
00:14:34.04\00:14:37.41
and to win her heart
back, that is what God expects
00:14:37.44\00:14:41.09
people to do even
today. Well now there are some
00:14:41.90\00:14:46.30
factors aren't they
that could predict divorce?
00:14:46.33\00:14:49.36
That's right. Could
you help us with that?
00:14:49.39\00:14:51.30
Yes. There are
number of things that both
00:14:51.33\00:14:54.50
clinical research as
well as basic research have
00:14:54.53\00:14:57.79
shown that predict
divorce and why these are
00:14:57.82\00:15:00.62
important to understand is
that if they predict divorce
00:15:00.65\00:15:03.01
they must also be a part
of the solution for someone,
00:15:03.34\00:15:06.61
who has been divorced
and who is recovering from
00:15:06.64\00:15:09.63
divorce and you might
even be looking at the
00:15:09.66\00:15:12.25
possibility of remarriage.
If you don't deal with
00:15:12.28\00:15:15.39
the real route of the
problem, it's just going to
00:15:15.42\00:15:17.52
recycle itself again
in the future someday.
00:15:17.55\00:15:20.51
So it's important
for us to take a look at
00:15:20.54\00:15:22.63
these factors and the
very first one is the basic
00:15:22.66\00:15:25.50
factor of all human
beings and that is selfishness.
00:15:25.53\00:15:28.23
Well that's the base for
everything, it is. I mean
00:15:28.26\00:15:30.78
that's our problem. It
is, it is. As I looked at
00:15:30.81\00:15:33.85
people who come
to me, who have been
00:15:33.88\00:15:35.66
struggling with
marriage and who have divorced
00:15:35.69\00:15:38.08
that one is a basic one
that I find, is it people
00:15:38.11\00:15:41.85
are selfish, they want
to do what they want to do,
00:15:41.88\00:15:44.83
they don't want to give
in relationship, they don't
00:15:44.86\00:15:47.31
want to change, to
change, they don't want to be
00:15:47.34\00:15:50.22
flexible, it's going
to be my way or no way,
00:15:50.25\00:15:52.53
and if a person has
that kind of attitude,
00:15:52.91\00:15:55.54
it does not predict well
for success in the marriage
00:15:55.75\00:15:58.35
at all. So the number
one factor is selfishness.
00:15:58.38\00:16:02.33
Okay and then, the number
two factor is what we would
00:16:02.36\00:16:05.66
call immaturity. And many
of us bring into the marriage
00:16:05.69\00:16:12.01
all of our previous
life experiences those things
00:16:12.04\00:16:16.74
that we learned as children
from observing our parents
00:16:16.77\00:16:20.47
for example in their
marriage relationship or the
00:16:20.50\00:16:23.93
issues that we have in
our own lives that we have not
00:16:23.96\00:16:26.34
yet overcome, our previous
histories all of that we
00:16:26.37\00:16:29.95
bring into a marriage
and Jesus tells us that we
00:16:29.98\00:16:33.65
have to put away the
things of a child and that's
00:16:33.68\00:16:35.91
in the context of the
Chapter and Love. Yeah,
00:16:35.94\00:16:38.24
in 1st Corinthians 13,
That's right, in that chapter
00:16:38.27\00:16:40.64
on self sacrificial
love, tells us what the essence
00:16:40.67\00:16:45.43
of the marriage
relationship is gonna be
00:16:45.46\00:16:47.39
if it's gonna be
happy, but if we have not put
00:16:47.42\00:16:49.94
away the things of a
child, if we have not take and
00:16:49.97\00:16:52.16
look at our issues of
the past, our prejudices even
00:16:52.19\00:16:56.00
our views toward our
father and our mother,
00:16:56.03\00:16:59.13
then what happens as
we bring those things into
00:16:59.47\00:17:01.77
the marriage and
according to Hebrews 12:15 those
00:17:01.80\00:17:06.73
are called bitter routes
and they end up to filing
00:17:06.76\00:17:10.39
those people that we
love and when we defile the
00:17:10.42\00:17:15.95
people that we love
what that means is that
00:17:15.98\00:17:18.53
even though you may not
have that issue, I am going to,
00:17:18.79\00:17:22.38
if you will create that
issue for you by my expectation.
00:17:22.70\00:17:26.75
If I saw my father
doing it or if I saw my mother
00:17:27.51\00:17:30.02
doing it, that's what
I expect men and women
00:17:30.05\00:17:32.97
to do, and so I come
into the marriage, and that
00:17:33.00\00:17:35.93
expectancy is still in
me, and I am gonna created
00:17:35.96\00:17:38.70
in you. And so
marriages get to file through,
00:17:38.73\00:17:42.71
what I would call factors
of immaturity, things that we
00:17:42.74\00:17:46.27
have not yet overcome
in our own life, and that's
00:17:46.30\00:17:48.97
why I think so
many denominations today
00:17:49.00\00:17:53.80
are requiring
marriage counseling prior to
00:17:53.83\00:17:58.83
the marriage
ceremony, because they know that
00:17:58.86\00:18:02.33
people have to take
a look at these issues
00:18:02.36\00:18:04.70
because if they don't
they are gonna predict divorce
00:18:05.04\00:18:07.63
in the future. That
makes me think before you go to
00:18:07.66\00:18:11.20
the next one. Okay. That
makes me think of someone
00:18:11.23\00:18:13.27
that I've dealt in
Bible studies, and helping
00:18:14.58\00:18:17.76
them come out of the
life that they were in, and to
00:18:17.79\00:18:20.65
hopefully a more growing
Christian life, and one of
00:18:21.70\00:18:26.71
the problems are always
on one spouse side, they are
00:18:26.74\00:18:33.38
assuming what the
other spouse is going to do
00:18:33.41\00:18:36.06
by what's always happen
to them, and that's often
00:18:36.09\00:18:40.35
wrong. That's right,
that's right, yeah in fact those
00:18:40.38\00:18:46.03
kinds of assumptions
have no basis in reality.
00:18:46.06\00:18:50.64
And it causes an argument.
Exactly right, it causes
00:18:50.67\00:18:54.17
arguments and it causes
conflict, and that brings us
00:18:54.20\00:18:58.70
to the third factor that
predicts divorce, and that is
00:18:58.73\00:19:02.84
how we handle
conflict. Dr. Scott Stanley,
00:19:02.87\00:19:06.36
a Christian psychologist
has done a lot of research
00:19:06.39\00:19:10.41
on marriages, and his
research started out was
00:19:10.44\00:19:13.94
a longitudinal study
starting with people before they
00:19:13.97\00:19:17.64
were married and he tracked
all of these relationships
00:19:17.67\00:19:21.63
prior to marriage,
during the period of courtship,
00:19:21.66\00:19:23.78
and then onto the marriage,
and in a certain number of
00:19:23.81\00:19:26.52
cases into the divorce.
And here are the factors
00:19:26.55\00:19:30.52
that he found; he found
their ability to resolve
00:19:30.55\00:19:35.11
conflict in a healthy
way was the number one factor
00:19:35.14\00:19:39.82
that predicted divorce.
Really, really. That's right,
00:19:40.18\00:19:43.12
and they pointed out
four sub issues of conflict
00:19:43.56\00:19:48.64
resolution that really
created problems, and the
00:19:48.67\00:19:53.61
first one was that
when we tend to withdraw
00:19:53.64\00:19:58.54
rather than address
issues that never brings about
00:19:59.45\00:20:03.61
resolution of conflict.
And typically men are the ones
00:20:03.64\00:20:07.89
that want to withdraw
from conflict more than woman.
00:20:07.92\00:20:10.57
We are uncomfortable
talking about issues. Women are
00:20:11.31\00:20:15.42
much more comfortable
and let's talk about this,
00:20:15.45\00:20:18.27
let's gets down on
the table. Yes, yes.
00:20:18.30\00:20:19.78
And we men tend to be
less comfortable during that,
00:20:19.81\00:20:23.59
we wanna run, we wanna
hide, we wanna sweep it
00:20:23.62\00:20:26.20
under the carpet, and
when we do that then that is
00:20:26.23\00:20:32.13
the number factor in terms
of conflict that's going to
00:20:32.16\00:20:35.95
predict failure of
the marriage, and so now
00:20:35.98\00:20:40.83
you are talking about
the issue is so, so critical,
00:20:40.86\00:20:44.23
willingness, and the
ability to talk about it
00:20:44.26\00:20:46.31
knowledgeably. The second
one under conflict resolution
00:20:46.34\00:20:50.95
is called escalation.
Yes. There are some people,
00:20:50.98\00:20:54.74
who when you started
discussion would should be
00:20:54.77\00:20:57.73
a rationale discussion
of. It gets explosive.
00:20:57.76\00:21:00.99
Exactly, very quickly
and when people escalate,
00:21:01.02\00:21:05.37
when it tends to explode
quickly, that factor means
00:21:05.40\00:21:09.20
they are not gonna
resolve conflict, it's gonna
00:21:09.23\00:21:11.24
end up in a great big
fight, and is probably
00:21:11.27\00:21:13.24
gonna end up in a
divorce. There are some people,
00:21:13.27\00:21:15.67
who are more explosive
by temperament than others,
00:21:15.70\00:21:18.32
and so people who tend to
be that way need to be very,
00:21:18.35\00:21:22.47
very careful to bring
that tendency to death
00:21:22.50\00:21:26.86
or through the power of
God and say Lord keep me,
00:21:26.89\00:21:29.51
and there are couple of
techniques that we will talk
00:21:29.54\00:21:31.62
about in a minute.
Good because I was thinking
00:21:31.65\00:21:33.68
with that next. They
will help with that. The next
00:21:33.71\00:21:37.25
one is a failure to
validate one and another,
00:21:37.28\00:21:41.27
but rather when we shame
one an another or put one
00:21:41.30\00:21:44.34
and another down
for opinions or beliefs.
00:21:44.37\00:21:48.72
People who tend to not
validate or to shame or put
00:21:50.02\00:21:52.68
one and another down, when
that happens in a marriage,
00:21:52.71\00:21:55.10
it just takes all of the
affection, all of the love
00:21:55.13\00:21:58.24
away from the marriage. It
just kills, kills the heart
00:21:58.27\00:22:02.20
of the marriage, and
when the heart of the marriage
00:22:02.23\00:22:06.25
is dead, it's awfully
hard to rekindle it. Revive it.
00:22:06.28\00:22:09.66
And so shaming failing to
validate one and another's
00:22:09.69\00:22:12.71
feeling realities, that
is a very strong predictor of
00:22:12.74\00:22:16.35
marriage or for a
divorce. Yeah. And the final one
00:22:16.38\00:22:19.80
is what we call negative
interpretation and that is
00:22:19.83\00:22:23.16
when my wife were to do
something, if I always look
00:22:23.19\00:22:28.40
upon it negatively.
That's what I was. Negative spin
00:22:28.43\00:22:31.36
then that's gonna
predict divorce as well.
00:22:32.22\00:22:34.39
That's what I was
talking about awhile ago.
00:22:34.42\00:22:35.98
This is what that
I've observed happens here
00:22:36.01\00:22:38.96
in this particular
relationship, is this always
00:22:38.99\00:22:42.82
given a negative span.
And so whatever is done
00:22:42.85\00:22:46.86
is interpreted
wrong, but it come from
00:22:46.89\00:22:51.12
having so many things
done to this particular spouse
00:22:51.38\00:22:55.93
that she is having a
very hard time thinking that
00:22:56.36\00:22:59.30
well her husband would do
anything else. That's right
00:22:59.95\00:23:03.32
and what we call that
is a bitter route judgment
00:23:03.35\00:23:05.98
basically what happened
is this woman has judged
00:23:06.65\00:23:09.53
her parents in the
certain way and the law of
00:23:10.01\00:23:13.79
judging says that when you
judge. You shall be judged.
00:23:13.82\00:23:17.59
You are not only gonna
be judged, but whatever you
00:23:17.62\00:23:18.99
have judged is gonna
come back to you, and that's
00:23:19.02\00:23:21.89
what's happening. Her
judgments of her parents
00:23:21.92\00:23:23.91
are coming right back on
her and she is living them out
00:23:23.94\00:23:27.91
in her relationship
with her husband, and so
00:23:27.94\00:23:30.76
the solution then is for
her to go back, and first of all
00:23:30.79\00:23:33.85
repent the bitter
routes towards the parents,
00:23:33.88\00:23:36.86
and to be freed of that
and then she will be free
00:23:37.45\00:23:40.67
to look at her husband
fresh and new for who really is.
00:23:40.70\00:23:43.79
Well can we talk about
that may be later to about how
00:23:43.82\00:23:46.56
because that's you know,
if we can do that sort of
00:23:46.59\00:23:49.90
thing and sometimes it
doesn't happen for you,
00:23:49.93\00:23:52.94
you have to go back
and do it again, and again.
00:23:52.97\00:23:54.83
That's right. When
do we see the end of it?
00:23:54.86\00:23:57.46
Well we see the end of
it through people, who are
00:23:58.33\00:24:02.80
willing to make the kinds
of changes for example the
00:24:02.83\00:24:05.23
antidote of selfishness
is dying to myself, isn't it?
00:24:05.26\00:24:09.29
Yes. It's dying to myself
and letting the Lord really
00:24:09.32\00:24:12.41
have me the antidote to
immaturity is going back
00:24:12.44\00:24:17.12
and lot of times when we
went through this pain of
00:24:17.55\00:24:20.85
our childhood and the
observations of our parents
00:24:20.88\00:24:24.52
we seem to be all alone
and trying to feel our way
00:24:25.02\00:24:27.67
through, you know, our parents
are meant to be representatives
00:24:27.70\00:24:30.52
of God but if they
didn't do a good job of that,
00:24:30.55\00:24:32.95
we get distorted
representations, and
00:24:32.98\00:24:35.28
distorted ways of
living and relating. God almost
00:24:35.31\00:24:39.85
gives us marriages as
a way of going back again
00:24:39.88\00:24:45.38
with him this time though
not alone. Another opportunity.
00:24:45.41\00:24:48.97
Another opportunity
of reprogramming and
00:24:49.00\00:24:52.10
relearning what marriage
is all about. Many times we
00:24:52.13\00:24:56.16
need to go to the way God
teaches us right in the Bible
00:24:56.19\00:25:00.71
about that, if we are
gonna get the foundations that
00:25:00.74\00:25:03.35
we need to really have
for that. And in terms of
00:25:03.38\00:25:07.31
conflict the wonderful
thing about conflict resolution
00:25:07.34\00:25:12.64
is that there are some
fairly standard techniques
00:25:12.67\00:25:16.81
that you use to build
conflict resolution in a safe
00:25:16.84\00:25:21.00
way. You know one is
to find it to plan it in
00:25:21.03\00:25:23.89
advance, you know
don't try to resolve conflict
00:25:23.92\00:25:27.47
in the heat of the battle.
Right. That's never gonna
00:25:27.50\00:25:29.49
work. Okay. Okay,
but when you know that
00:25:29.52\00:25:32.72
there is an issue then
find a safe place to go out,
00:25:32.75\00:25:36.94
to set aside a time and
say well tomorrow evening
00:25:36.97\00:25:40.47
at 7o' clock, we are
going to get together
00:25:40.50\00:25:44.58
and we are gonna talk
about this. That makes me
00:25:44.61\00:25:46.41
think of something
that I remember reading in
00:25:46.44\00:25:48.12
child guidance out
of spirit prophecy. Yes.
00:25:48.15\00:25:51.08
The book was Child
Guidance, and for parenting,
00:25:51.11\00:25:55.60
and this has to be
learned for children, children
00:25:55.63\00:25:57.81
grow up could do this in
their family, and that was
00:25:57.84\00:26:01.23
when we are upset with
our children, go off and
00:26:01.26\00:26:07.37
cool off, and another
would be children we will
00:26:07.40\00:26:12.38
talk about that this
evening. That's right. You
00:26:12.41\00:26:14.74
know, and so you are
talking about making a plan
00:26:14.77\00:26:17.61
going somewhere. And
there need to be rules
00:26:17.64\00:26:20.28
by which you govern
the interaction when
00:26:20.31\00:26:23.48
it does happen, and one of
the rules that we recommend
00:26:23.51\00:26:28.11
is a rule of mutual respect.
In other words, I am not
00:26:28.14\00:26:32.24
gonna interrupt you and
I expect that you are not
00:26:32.27\00:26:34.64
gonna interrupt me
when we are talking. Okay.
00:26:34.67\00:26:36.67
And many times
though we get so heated that
00:26:36.70\00:26:39.03
we try to use an
artificial means to help people
00:26:39.06\00:26:44.59
with that and here is
often what we use. You take
00:26:44.62\00:26:48.35
an object, whether
it's a pen or whether it's a
00:26:48.38\00:26:51.54
banana or whatever it
may be, and long as I have
00:26:51.57\00:26:55.19
the banana its mine turn
to talk. Okay. And I get to
00:26:55.22\00:26:59.55
say whatever I need to
say to articulate my you know
00:26:59.58\00:27:03.65
what I need to say
and then when I am done,
00:27:03.68\00:27:06.80
I am gonna ask you if
you understood, what I just
00:27:06.83\00:27:10.17
said, and as long I
have the banana you will then
00:27:10.20\00:27:14.25
repeat what I just said and
if it is exactly what I said
00:27:14.28\00:27:19.61
then I will say okay you
understood me, I really feel
00:27:19.96\00:27:23.12
understood. To clarify.
And then I'll pass the banana
00:27:23.15\00:27:26.25
onto you and it's your
turn and its my responsibility
00:27:26.28\00:27:30.14
then to give you
undivided attention, do not say
00:27:30.17\00:27:34.40
anything, do not be planning
my rebottle, but to just
00:27:34.43\00:27:37.15
listen. Well you know there
is other things now that we
00:27:37.18\00:27:40.42
need to discuss, we
have really got into finish
00:27:40.45\00:27:42.62
this, and we will talk
about how Christians ought
00:27:42.65\00:27:44.62
to respond. And next
time we are gonna talk about
00:27:44.65\00:27:46.28
your story, right. Yes. Okay,
00:27:46.31\00:27:48.50
you join us again
on Thinking About Home.
00:27:48.53\00:27:51.26
Dr. Scdlacck
would you pray with us.
00:27:51.29\00:27:53.28
I surely will. Father
thank you for blessing us
00:27:53.31\00:27:56.74
with good marriages
and with the way out.
00:27:56.77\00:28:01.27