Participants: Paula Woodruff, Kathy Matthews
Series Code: TAH
Program Code: TAH000118
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00:31 Welcome again to Thinking about Home. I'm Kathy
00:33 Matthews and I'm glad that you've decided to be 00:36 with us. We have been, we have been talking about 00:39 women and submission. And women and surrender. 00:44 And we have a guest with us named Paula 00:46 Wordref. And we want to welcome her again 00:48 today. Thank you Paula for being with us. 00:51 We were talking about submission and I'm sure 00:57 that people ask when they hear submission 01:01 especially women ask about women and 01:04 submission that are you talking about being a 01:07 doormat or you talking about being substandard 01:10 or what are you talking about? 01:12 Yes, the word submission or surrender is often 01:17 given a bad light and it has a negative connotation 01:20 to it. And by submission or surrender I, I do not 01:25 mean that women in marriage should fall in to 01:27 the role of the husband being the boy that comes 01:30 home and says, little darling you know, come rub 01:33 my feet. Or of a woman who is spineless nothing, 01:38 with no opinions of her own walked all over 01:41 That's certainly not what we mean and it's, 01:43 it's definitely what God's view of Biblical 01:46 surrender. Is all about. Yes. Right. 01:49 You know, we were talking about phrase that 01:52 you coined I think called gender blindness. Yes. 01:56 Why don't you define that for us? Okay, 02:00 by gender blindness I just mean that it would 02:03 seem in society that we're moving closer and 02:06 closer toward a co-ed. And have been for 02:09 a while. Type of resistance, yes, we have 02:12 the co-ed clothing, Calvin Klein has been a leader 02:15 in the co-ed ideas of colon for both men and 02:21 women. Co-ed hairstyles, hairstyles that a man 02:25 can wear or a woman. I think that all these 02:29 things have create a confusion and I know 02:31 that, when I was growing up I felt 02:33 confused. And, well and if you, if it was, 02:35 it was there when you were growing up. Yes. 02:37 This is not just been lately. Right. This has 02:39 been since for, for many years. It's been going 02:42 on. So, we have a whole generation or more that's 02:46 been growing up with this idea and no wonder 02:49 they are confused. And we touched in the 02:51 last program in, in years past children would 02:55 be born into families and grow up knowing, 02:59 what was expected of them and what they were 03:01 to be. And this provided some kind of a security. 03:05 Young men would, would grow up copying their 03:08 fathers. And they knew that they were supposed 03:11 to be workers and providers. Right. Etcetera 03:15 and the, the young girls would grow up knowing 03:17 how to take care of a home and, and nurture 03:20 children. And now we seem to have mixed 03:24 messages coming to us. Young, young boys 03:26 are being raised to get in touch with their 03:28 feminine side. And young ladies are being 03:32 bombarded with messages of girl power and. 03:34 Right. And I think a lot this has been an 03:38 outgrowth of the feminist movement, but it's 03:40 confusing because inside God has given us a 03:44 nature and so growing up for me I had this nature 03:49 that was telling me to be feminine. And, and to 03:54 seek to learn how to better nurture and serve 03:56 other people. Right. But the same time society 03:59 was screaming at me. No, that's old, that's 04:02 wrong. You need to be a go-getter in your face 04:05 kind of woman, who can take care of herself. 04:09 And so we have this confusion now. 04:11 And being a capable women is fine. 04:13 Yes, it is. But that's not what you're talking 04:16 about by go-getter be in your face type of a 04:19 woman. No. The similarities that you 04:23 talked about, they've been going on like I said 04:27 for a while. And I have observed that even young 04:34 men feel that it's, it's fine that if they can 04:38 mooch off of wome supporting them. This is, 04:42 this is an acceptable thing and some, somehow 04:45 they see no problem with this. And while women 04:50 have presented this feminist movement or the 04:53 lack of surrender. This is partly what it's 04:56 produced, don't you think, it some. Yes. 04:58 You know, some men who feel that you should be 05:02 my protector and provider. Right. It's confusing. 05:05 It is, and it's certainly not. It's far from God's 05:08 design. He intended that, that both genders 05:12 after sin were to take on roles that would teach 05:17 them humility because unless we're humble, 05:20 we cannot submit to God or to fellow church 05:23 members. And so he assigned women, the task 05:26 of, of, of childbearing and of being subservient 05:31 to Adam. And this was not meant to be an 05:35 undignified position that degraded her. This was 05:38 to help her. And she had to learn through 05:42 surrendering to her body as she labored to give 05:44 birth. To just be humble and, and let things 05:49 happen. And Adam through tilling the soil, 05:53 which God cursed the soil, so that he would have 05:56 to work by the sweat of his brow to produce and 05:59 anyone who's done any kind of farming can tell 06:01 you that working the soil is a very humbling work. 06:06 You don't just walk through the field and say 06:08 some magic words and crops spring up. Right, 06:11 there is a lot of toiling going on. It's toiling, 06:13 and sometimes things do not go the way you wish 06:16 them to, right, and so there is this humility 06:19 that comes from them. Right, well even 06:21 surrender to the elements, isn't that? Yes. 06:23 When it comes to that. I've also been asked 06:26 many times, if through surrender do I mean that 06:30 the women's identity, her whole individuality is 06:35 lost in that of her husband and we certainly 06:37 do not want to say that, as a women God has 06:40 created you precious. You're unique and 06:43 special. And he wants you to live out your 06:47 convictions; he wants you to have tastes. 06:50 Absolutely so, especially if you have a spouse, 06:54 who would squash those convictions. Right. 06:56 God wants you to surrender to him. Right. 06:58 First in those areas. Right. So, that's not, that type 07:01 of thing is not what you're talking about. 07:03 No, certainly not. Sometimes we have to 07:06 define something by contrasting and showing 07:09 what it isn't rather than what it is? 07:12 Definitely, the Adventist home writes about 07:16 individuality. Entire submission is to be made 07:19 only to the Lord Jesus Christ, who has purchased 07:22 her as his own child by the infinite price of his 07:25 life. God has given her a conscience which she 07:28 cannot violate with impunity. Her individuality 07:32 cannot be merged into that of her husband for 07:35 she is the purchase of Christ. It is a mistake to 07:38 imagine that with blind devotion she is to do 07:41 exactly as her husband says in all of things. 07:44 When she knows... It's a mistake you're saying. 07:46 Yes, when she knows that in doing so, injury 07:49 would be worked for her body and her spirit, 07:53 which have been ransomed from the slavery 07:55 of Satan. There is one who stands higher than 07:57 the husband to the wife. And that is her redeemer. 08:01 Yes. And her submission to her husband is to 08:03 be rendered as God has directed as it is fit in 08:07 the Lord. When husbands require the complete 08:10 subjection of their wives, declaring that women 08:12 have no voice or will in the family that must 08:15 render entire submission they placed their wives 08:18 in a position contrary to the scripture. 08:21 And interpreting the scripture in this way, they 08:22 do violence to the design of the marriage 08:24 institution. This interpretation is made 08:27 simply that they may exercise arbitrary rule, 08:31 which is not their prerogative. But we read 08:34 on, husbands love your wives and be not bitter 08:37 against them. Umm! I'm glad you read that. 08:39 I'm sure that that clear up any ideas that you 08:43 might be out of balance with what you're 08:46 talking about. Yes, and that's the beauty of 08:49 everything that God has designed is there is 08:50 balance. We have a balance between mercy 08:53 and justice in the, in the personality of God. 08:57 And so, there is a balance between the man 08:59 and wife of service on the part of the man and 09:02 surrender on the part of the woman. And when 09:05 these two things are lived out the way God 09:07 designed them to be lived the result is a 09:11 perfect harmony between man and wife. 09:13 And that's not to say that they are not still 09:15 challenges to overcome, but there is this 09:18 working together hand-in-hand. Right. 09:21 Of the two. Submission is also mentioned in 09:27 Paul's writings in the New Testament. And I 09:28 would like to go there. The first one is in 09:32 Ephesians, chapter 5. And we start with verse 09:36 22. Says, wives, submit to your own husbands as 09:39 to the Lord. For the husband is the head of 09:42 the wife as also Christ is the head of the church. 09:46 And he is the savior of the body. Therefore just 09:49 as the church is subject to Christ. So, let the 09:51 wives be to their own husbands in some things. 09:55 No, all things. In everything, and then it 09:59 addresses the men. Husbands, love your wives, 10:02 just as Christ also loved the church and gave 10:04 himself for her that he might sanctify and cleanse 10:08 her with the washing of water by the word. 10:11 Now, how can a husband sanctify and cleanse 10:14 his wife with the washing of the water by 10:17 the word. By being the priest in the family. 10:21 And these were. That's what, that's what it's 10:24 drawing from, isn't it? Right. The priesthood. 10:25 Right. Or the service on the sanctuary is what 10:28 that wording is from. And these were two of 10:30 the roles that my husband and I had reversed, 10:35 being in academy I was a spiritual leader and 10:37 so forth you know, brought that leadership into 10:39 my home, unaware of marriage rules and how 10:45 God had designed the to be. And so I was very 10:47 much over stepping my husband in the role of, 10:49 of priest of the family. And he was following me. 10:55 So, what the Lord had to do was turn our whole, 10:57 the whole structure of our home upside down. 11:00 And start us out again in new roles. And they were 11:04 days when we reverted back to the old 11:06 dysfunctional roles simply because that's what, 11:08 what we knew. And what it. But it certainly 11:11 wasn't what he designed. That's what comfortable. 11:14 Yes, it goes on to say. Husbands ought to love 11:17 their own wives as their own bodies. He, who 11:20 loves his wife, loves himself. For no one ever 11:23 hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes 11:25 it just as the Lord does the church. For we are 11:29 members of his body, of his flesh and of his 11:31 bones. For this reason, a man shall leave his 11:33 father and mother and shall be joined to his 11:35 wife and the two shall become one flesh. 11:38 This is a great mystery. In other words, I think 11:41 that God knew when he assigned these rules that 11:44 it would be a mystery to us. And that it would be 11:47 a challenge for us to undertake what he had 11:49 given, but he knows that we can do it, but I 11:52 speak concerning Christ and the church. 11:54 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular 11:57 so love his own wife as himself and let the wife 12:00 see that she respects her husband. And I cannot 12:04 tell you how much of a blessing this has brought 12:07 into our home. There is, it freeze up Jeremy, 12:11 I'm sure. Yes, it does. It has been a beautiful 12:13 thing to watch my husband, who started out 12:16 the marriage for lack of a better word, spineles 12:23 to, to see this confidence that the Lord has 12:26 planted in his heart and watched that grow and 12:29 see how much better he loves me now. 12:34 And how much better I love him now that we're 12:36 doing what God has asks us to do. It's such a 12:39 blessing. I also wanted to mention that, what 12:43 we read here about the wives being submissive 12:48 must be balanced out with the proverbs 31 12:51 wife. And I would like to go there, if you have 12:53 your Bibles. Please turn to proverbs 31. I was 12:59 very interested to note that this description of a 13:05 Godly wife, a virtuous wife was not written by 13:07 a man, but by a woman. That was. This was King 13:11 Lemuel's mother. Yes. And I'm not sure who 13:15 King Lemuel is? I haven't seen much mention 13:16 of him in the Bible, but apparently he looked to 13:20 his mother for guidance in how to find a wife 13:23 and this is the direction that she gave. Right. 13:27 Who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is 13:29 far above rubies. The heart of her husband 13:32 safely trust her. What a beautiful thing? 13:37 It is, it is something that we should cherish, 13:39 the trust of our husband. And it's something that 13:42 we should not take advantage of, which I did in 13:45 the beginning of my marriage. His trust and, 13:48 and his patient nature, I used against him in 13:53 walking all over him and doing as I pleased. 13:56 Well, and that could be trusting as in this 14:00 virtuous woman would not play the harlot 14:01 either. Right. He could trust her in, in distance 14:07 wherever she might be and he would be able 14:09 to trust her. Keeping herself to him, for him. 14:12 Yes. I agree. And it talks about him trusting her. 14:16 So, that he will hav no lack of gain. And I'm 14:18 in verse 11. And that made me think because, 14:24 how many times do we as women feel justified 14:28 in going out and spending money on 14:30 frivolous vanities that don't really mean anything 14:32 or matter. It's not really something we need, 14:36 it's something that we want. And our husband 14:38 comes home and says, you know, where is all 14:41 the money going. And so it really made me take 14:45 a second look at my spending in the home. 14:47 How am I spending the money that he has 14:50 earned? That he is earning. Which is not even 14:52 our own. We're stewards of the money that God 14:55 give, gives us. So, she does here in verse 12. 15:00 Good and not evil all the days of her life. 15:02 It doesn't say, some of the days of her life. 15:04 Right. And I know that I have been guilty of 15:09 using the women cycle as an excuse for being 15:12 grumpy or short with my husband. And I think 15:16 that when it says, all the days of her life it 15:19 means all the days. It doesn't meant the days 15:21 when you're feeling less than. Okay. Than beautiful 15:24 or when your hormones are going crazy. Right. 15:29 That, that's an excuse to be moody with your 15:32 husband, she seeks wool and flax and willingly 15:35 works with her hands. I think it's important 15:38 that we not be delicate little butterflies that can't 15:41 get things for ourselves. This would also I think 15:45 deal with, clearing up the idea that you would 15:50 not be able to work. Right. Yes. Especially, 15:53 if you didn't have children most specially 15:55 then, then it would a fine thing. And look at this 15:58 virtuous woman. She is able to, yes. I think so 16:01 too. She is like the merchant ships; she brings 16:04 her foods from, from afar. I think, she is creative 16:08 in the kitchen. She tries; she seeks out foods that 16:12 she knows would be palatable and pleasing as 16:14 well as wholesome for her husband and her family. 16:19 She also rises well to see at night and provides 16:21 food for her household. This is not your 16:24 stereotypical stay at home mom, who runs 16:27 around all day in her bathrobe and sits washing 16:30 soap operas and eating bonbons. This is someone 16:33 who is, who is. What are bonbons? I understand 16:36 though, it's just a joke. I think that this is 16:40 somebody, who is on top of the situation. 16:43 And she has a schedule. It sounds like a lot 16:46 of hospitality too, yes. If you're, many time 16:52 especially, if you're a Christian woman and if 16:53 you have anything to do with church leadership 16:56 or even of the needs in the community. You might 17:00 have to do things at uneasy hours or 17:04 inconvenient hours. And that's what she sounds 17:07 like, she is able to do. Yes. And not complaint 17:09 about it, yes, being willing to do that. 17:13 A hospitable woman and that is part of 17:14 humility being able to serve others without 17:17 complaint. She considers the field and buys it 17:21 from her profits. She plans a vineyard. 17:23 This woman is physically responsible and 17:25 knowledgeable. This is not a woman who has 17:28 been kept in the dark about money. 17:31 And probably was taught somewhere, do you 17:33 suppose. I, I would hope that her father taught 17:35 her. Would and be the training, you see it 17:37 sounds like it would be the training of Israel at 17:39 that time and I think we read in other writers 17:43 about the history of Israel that that all the 17:46 young men had to have a trade, no matter what 17:49 their financial status was, they had to have a 17:51 trade. And women were taught to not necessarily 17:57 the same trades, but were certainly capable of 18:00 thinking, they were not ignorant women. 18:01 Yes, definitely not. This is one of my favorite 18:05 parts. In verse 17, it says, she girds herself with 18:07 strength and strengthens her arms. I think this is 18:10 important as a wife that we do our best to keep 18:13 ourselves in good condition for our husbands. 18:16 So, they're not tempted to look in other 18:19 directions. I think that, in the same respect, 18:24 it's something that God expects the men to do 18:27 for the wives. Right. So, it certainly is not 18:29 just a one sided thing. She perceives that her 18:33 merchandise is good. So, in other words she has 18:35 a good, a wholesome view point as far as 18:41 herself and her abilities. She is not puffed u p 18:44 and proud and full of vanity. She realizes her 18:47 place in the big, scheme of things, right. 18:51 She stretches out her hands to the distaff and 18:54 her hand holds the spindle. She extends her 18:56 hand to the poor. Yes, she reaches out her hands 18:59 to the needy. So, this would go back to what 19:00 you were saying about service to others. 19:02 Community service, also I think in the New 19:06 Testament of Dorcas, who provided so much 19:09 for her. Well, for believers or unbelievers, 19:13 she provided much for her community and when 19:14 she died everybody wept. Yes. And missed her 19:17 and this sounds like she has her what to the staff, 19:21 to the distaff. Her hands. She weaving. Reaching 19:24 out there. So, it was a woman who could do that 19:28 and it takes some knowledge to be able to do 19:29 that. Sewing is something that many have lost 19:32 the art of doing. And that's something that 19:34 we've especially wanted to teach our girls was 19:36 to teach them to be able to sew. And the, you think 19:41 today that that's really not necessary. But it is? 19:44 It, it helps one be more confident about themselves 19:47 and you don't have to just be out at the 19:52 designer shop, trying to find something that costs 19:54 so much more. Sewing is difficult today, price 19:58 wise too, yes, but it still teaches an art, a skill. 20:02 It is, and it's, and it's also a good way for young 20:04 ladies to learn discipline. And that's true. 20:06 And how to follow directions. That's true. 20:09 By piecing the patters together. Certainly and I 20:12 think, it's very important that Christian women, 20:17 there are so many young women in our 20:19 church today who did not have the guidance of 20:22 their mother, like they needed. And I think that 20:25 as Christian women, we should be aware of this 20:28 fact and be willing to make ourselves available 20:33 as mentors to these young ladies. And take 20:35 them into our kitchens; invite them into our 20:37 homes. Right. Show them how to cook? Yes, 20:40 show them, basic skills. Yes, some of these 20:42 womanly arts that they need to know in order 20:45 to serve their home. Rather than just skate 20:48 by. Right, just barely be able to open a can. 20:50 Right and boil an egg. Right, I was told that as 20:54 long as I knew how to boil an egg I would be 20:55 okay. She is not afraid of snow for her household, 21:01 for all her household is clothed with scarlet. 21:04 There is two fold meaning here that I, that I 21:06 gather, scarlet was one of the finer pieces of, 21:11 kinds of material back then. So, her household 21:14 is not closed in the cheapest unmended 21:19 clothing. Okay, they're, they're dressed nicely 21:22 and look nice, but not over done. And because 21:26 she is prepared for the winter she doesn't need 21:29 to fear, right, for her family. She makes tapestry 21:34 for herself. Her clothing is fine linen and purple 21:37 again. She is dressed well. Well, this is not a 21:40 frumpy woman. Right, her husband is known in 21:43 the gates, when he sits among the elders of the 21:45 land. How is he known? And his wife. Yes, 21:51 they recognize that this is a man, whose 21:54 confidence and success is largely because of 21:56 the devotion of his wife and her support for him. 22:00 That obviously has it's emotional affect. 22:03 Yes, definitely does and I've seen that in 22:05 my husband and I'm still, the Lord is still working 22:08 on me I'm not perfect in a supportive role, 22:13 but I'm trying and that's what we want to challenge 22:16 other women today. That's right. Try to 22:20 support him, the way God would have you. 22:22 That's right. Strengthen and honor her clothing, 22:25 she wrote, she shall rejoice in time to come. 22:28 She opens her mouth with wisdom and on 22:30 her tongue is the law of kindness. 22:34 Now, this is something that could be dwelt on 22:35 a long time. Yes, it could. This could touch on 22:37 to the possibility of home schooling her 22:40 children or she a teacher for her, for her family. 22:45 This is not a woman who is ignorant. She is well 22:48 read and she knows what she is talking about, 22:51 when she speaks. Right. This is not a woman who 22:53 is spending her time in idle chit chat and gossip. 22:58 But the kindness too. Therefore no, no cutting 23:02 words, right, right, yeah. And I have been guilty so 23:06 many times of in anger or frustration saying, 23:10 the cutting words. We've all sinned in this area 23:13 I'm sure, yes, all of us, male or female. 23:15 Yes, and it does, it does not have the affects that 23:19 we want on our family. She watches over the 23:22 ways of her household and does not eat the bread 23:24 of idleness. Her children rise up and caught her 23:27 blessed. Her husband also and he praises her. 23:31 I think that is important here for us to understand 23:35 that women, who are in this role need to hear 23:40 that they're doing a good job. Right. 23:42 That they're supported and they're affirmed in 23:44 their home ministry. And many times I think one 23:48 of the reasons why women don't like to be at home? 23:51 One of the reasons. Would be that they feel 23:54 very unappreciated. Yes. You know since they feel, 23:58 that's no significant thing that they're doing there, 24:02 but it's most important. Yes. Especially, if they 24:05 have children. A well ordered home that speaks 24:08 more than thousand sermons. Right. So your 24:10 community and those who come in and visit in 24:12 your home. So, it's certainly important and 24:16 for those mothers in the church, who are older, 24:18 whose children are grown. And they have walked 24:22 the whole length of motherhood. Be encouraging 24:26 to those of us who are still in the middle of it. 24:28 And sometimes can't see the light at the end of 24:31 the tunnel and, and see that this our efforts can be 24:34 fruitful and we can be successful and have 24:37 children who grow up to love the Lord. 24:39 Right. Many daughters have done well, but she 24:43 excel them all. And, and before that I want to read 24:46 verse 28. Yes, her children rise up and call 24:49 blessed, her husband also and he praises her. 24:52 Many daughters have done well, but you excel 24:54 them all. Charm is deceitful and beauty is 24:57 passing, but a woman who fears the Lord, she shall 25:00 be praised. Give her of the fruit of her hands and 25:04 let her own works praise her in the gates. What a 25:06 beautiful description, right, of Godly womanhood. 25:10 And it's so much different then what the 25:13 world would have us to do today. Right, it is, 25:15 but it's God's plan, isn't it? Yes. It would be 25:19 God's plan. Going through that, thank you for 25:21 going through that, I like that. 25:23 We can learn some things about her husband 25:25 as well. Usually we address the Godly women 25:29 in proverbs, but what can we learn about her 25:31 husband through what we've read and I think 25:35 that certainly this is not a man, who hoards 25:40 his money to himself. He's trusting her and so 25:43 he gives her, he allows her to have some choices 25:46 and how the money is, is used. And he certainly 25:50 doesn't sound like a tyrant. He seems to be 25:56 a sensitive man. And would recognize that she 25:58 has the ability to make choices in these area 26:01 you know. Right, so it's good for us to clear up 26:04 all of those things, yes because I'm sure people 26:06 have those questions out there. Yes, do they 26:09 definitely do? I just wanted to read something 26:12 else from the Adventist home and this by the way 26:14 is such a beautiful book. And it really helps 26:16 my husband in forming the kind of home that 26:19 God would have us. Right, to dwell in and 26:24 Adventist home, page 116 and 117. Entire, Oh! 26:29 I've read that, 117 but it was not the design of God 26:34 that the husband should have control as head of 26:36 the house, when he himself does not submit 26:38 to Christ. He must be under the rule of Christ 26:41 that he may represent the relation of Christ to 26:43 the church. If he is of course rough boisterous, 26:47 egotistical, harsh and overbearing man, let him 26:50 never utter the word that the husband is the head 26:52 of the wife and that she must submit to him 26:54 in everything. For he is not the Lord and he is 26:57 not the husband in the true significance of the 27:00 term. And it says, let every husband and father 27:04 study to understand the words of Christ. Not in a 27:06 one sided manner merely dwelling upon the 27:09 subjection of the wife to her husband but in the 27:11 light of the Cross of Calvary. Study as to his 27:15 own position in the family circle. Husbands love 27:17 your wives even as Christ also loved the 27:19 church and gave himself for it, that he 27:21 might sanctify and cleanse it with the 27:23 washing of water by word. Right. 27:25 And it's so important that both the husband and 27:28 the wife are making these efforts to better the 27:30 home. It certainly is. Paula, our time is running 27:33 out. There are other things that we could cover 27:35 I know, but why don't we just pray for our viewers 27:39 and then just, just hold them up to the Lord that 27:44 they will see this for what it is for their homes, 27:46 yes. Can we do that? Yes. And we want you, 27:49 if you will remember to join us again on Thinking 27:52 about Home. Let's just go ahead. Father in heaven, 27:56 as the people watch these programs, I pray 27:59 that they will incorporate all of this. |
Revised 2014-12-17