Participants: Kathy Matthews, Paula Woodruff
Series Code: TAH
Program Code: TAH000117
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00:30 Welcome back to Thinking About Home.
00:33 I'm Kathy Matthews, and we have tried very hard 00:36 on Thinking About Home to try to come up 00:38 with relevant programs for you, 00:40 things that mean a lot to you. 00:42 And we're gonna be discussing for several 00:44 programs women and surrender. 00:46 This is not necessarily a popular subject. 00:48 Sometimes it can get very frustrating or very 00:53 hot subject to some people. 00:56 But I think that you'll enjoy them 00:59 and as we're getting closer to the Lord's coming I know 01:02 that it's something that we need to be 01:03 considering as women. 01:04 One of the things that we're going to be 01:07 talking about today is women as mothers 01:10 or women as wives. 01:11 And we've invited a guest and her name 01:14 is Paula Woodruff and she has been a church member 01:18 with me for sometime. 01:21 We've come to know each other through the past 01:22 few years and have had an enjoyable relationship. 01:25 Her story has a lot to do with her surrender 01:28 to her husband and we're gonna invite Paula 01:30 to tell that to us today. 01:32 Paula, thank you for being with us. 01:33 Thank you for inviting me. 01:34 In our homes, we need to understand this subject 01:37 don't we as mothers and wives, you know, 01:41 we had some with Sarah Mathews before some 01:44 programs that she was talking about in 01:47 surrender as a single person, 01:50 surrender to God there in her life. 01:54 And you are going to be talking about learning 01:56 your surrender right to your husband. Yes. 02:00 Now I know that can be uncomfortable subject 02:03 for a lot of women and you are going to tells 02:06 us how enjoyable I think it has been for you, right. Yes. 02:09 But there were some things that you started 02:11 that, well, the background of your life 02:13 in society and how this lack of surrender effected to you. 02:19 So, why don't you give us some of that 02:20 background of how you grew up? 02:22 When we look around. 02:24 Or in society, how it effected you, 02:25 that's what I really mean. 02:26 Yes, when we look around our society today, 02:29 we see a lot of violence, abuse, 02:32 divorce, homosexuality, you name it, 02:35 all kinds of evils. 02:36 And this is because we've lost sight 02:38 of the submission that we're called to have through 02:41 the Ten Commandments. Right. 02:43 And in Exodus 20 we were given the Decalogue by God. 02:51 And I would like to go 02:52 through that just for a moment. Okay 02:53 There is a certain order of surrender 02:57 that is called for in the Ten Commandments. 02:59 And the first few commandments call 03:02 for first and foremost surrender to God. 03:06 To God, yes. 03:07 And then we are called through honor 03:08 your father and your mother to surrender 03:10 to our parents. Okay. 03:11 And then beyond that we surrender to our friends 03:14 our teachers. Right. And society. 03:19 I think, there are many times we get this order mixed up. 03:23 And we loose sight of what God has asked us to do. 03:27 What do you think the root of our problem is? 03:35 We've to say that the root of the problem 03:37 would be our selfishness. 03:39 We are born into this world with the selfish 03:41 nature and that desire to serve self 03:45 is so strong in us. 03:47 And that is what causes us to walk all over 03:50 what God has given to us. Yeah, right. 03:52 In the Ten Commandments. 03:53 Right, then you have story about your 03:55 horsemen shift to share with us. 03:57 Yes, I worked with horses for 11 years now 04:01 teaching riding and working with the animal themselves. 04:04 And God try to teach me for so many years 04:09 submission through my work with these animals. 04:13 And the horse is very, it's a proud creature 04:16 and it's got a will of its own. 04:19 And that will must be submitted to the will 04:21 of the trainer and of the rider and we know that 04:25 horse that is not willing to submit is no good. Right. 04:29 It's dangerous to itself, 04:31 it's dangerous to the people around it 04:33 and eventually a horse that will not be broken 04:37 is ends up being dog food. 04:40 And so as a trainer and as an instructor, 04:43 our work is to teach these horses 04:45 how to learn to trust us. 04:48 And it is the same way with God, 04:51 He tries very in many ways to teach us 04:56 how to surrender to Him. Right. 04:58 Because just like a horse with a will of its 05:00 own is of no use to the rider, 05:03 it is it's no use to God if a Christian will not 05:06 surrender his well. Right. 05:07 And then it must be a full surrender, 05:10 it cannot be a partial one. 05:13 There are horses that will stand still 05:16 and allow you to put a saddle 05:18 and ride along them. Right 05:19 But then if you try to walk to ride them, 05:23 they will not let you do that. 05:24 That's what you mean by partial surrender? 05:26 So that's partial surrender and so many 05:28 times I find in the Christian world, 05:30 we think that we're surrendering and in fact 05:35 we're only partially surrendering to God. 05:38 You know, a thought occurs to me that 05:39 we learn to together in parenting program about 05:42 a child sitting in his highchair. 05:43 Do you remember? Yes. 05:44 And the parents could be feeding it and it might 05:49 go, it might arch his back or stretch or turn 05:51 its face away or something like that. 05:54 And you are trying to get them to eat and be 05:58 a subdued person while you are trying to get them 06:00 to eat and not just resist you and then 06:05 you could take it away or this person who was 06:07 actually doing this and took, 06:09 taken the child out of the highchair 06:11 and corrected the child to put her back so that 06:14 she could eat. 06:15 And this time she was partially surrendered, 06:18 but she just arched her back only. 06:19 She didn't turn her head away, she didn't jerk. 06:21 They knew that she had only surrendered maybe 06:24 90 percent, but she wasn't gonna gave it all, 06:27 and that might be what you are talking 06:30 about too is this partial surrender, 06:32 but we need entire surrender to the Lord, 06:34 don't we. Yes, yes. 06:36 And the Lord trust to teach us this in so many 06:39 ways because it is so important. 06:40 If we look at the laws of nature 06:45 from the time we're born, 06:46 we're all submitted to the law of gravity. 06:50 Something that we cannot break away from. 06:52 And so He has put these lessons everywhere for 06:56 us in order to teach us how to submit 06:59 to Him to His will. 07:01 Did you have some scriptures that 07:02 you wanted to share or actually there is 07:04 another birth experience you what's called a Doula. Yes. 07:13 And you spelled it for me. D-O-U-L-A. 07:16 A French word right. Yes. 07:18 And you said that's understood in the South, 07:20 but not so much in the West we call a labor 07:22 companion in the West I think. 07:24 And you have submission experience 07:26 there or lesson out of birth. Yes. 07:30 Yes even from a very birth, 07:32 it seems that the Lord is trying to teach us to 07:34 get through our thick heads that 07:35 we need to surrender. 07:38 And one of the things that I've noticed 07:40 in working in labor and delivery with women is 07:43 that the best way for baby to be born into our 07:47 world, into the new life is to present with his 07:52 head bowed, that chin is tucked tightly to his 07:55 chest and it comes through the birth canal that way. 07:58 That's interesting. 07:59 Yes, and we can see that there is a comparison there. 08:04 The best way for Christian to be born 08:06 into a new life is an attitude of submission 08:10 with the head bowed, the chin tucked tightly 08:13 to the chest. In the sense. Yes. 08:15 With that attitude. 08:16 And when a baby is born, they start these steps 08:21 of surrender first and will surrender 08:23 to the laws of gravity of nature... 08:27 That's interesting, yes. 08:28 And then they must surrender to their 08:31 parents and then to their, 08:33 later in life to their teachers, 08:35 if their teachers are not their parents 08:38 and they do have teachers in the school, 08:40 they must surrender to them. 08:41 They must surrender to the laws of societies, 08:45 speed limits when they are 16 and then 08:49 ultimately we surrender our lives to God. 08:52 So it follows the certain order and some 08:53 of us go through that order backwards. 08:55 I was one of those who went through the 08:58 submission journey kind of the opposite way. 09:04 I first surrender to God, 09:07 then I was able to surrender to those around me. 09:10 And then finally to learn how to honor 09:14 my parents. Yeah. 09:16 And my husband. Right. 09:18 Did you have some scripture that 09:19 you want to share on in the 1 Peter, perhaps? Yes, i did. 09:25 1 Peter talks about surrender and in fact 09:31 we find it a lot in the New Testament which I find 09:33 interesting because I've heard many women 09:36 when I start to approach them with this, 09:38 they will say about, you know this women 09:41 submitting to man idea, that's only in the 09:44 Old Testament of the scripture. 09:45 And I have to respectfully disagree 09:48 because it's all throughout our scripture 09:53 in the New Testament as well. 09:54 Paul writes over and over again about it. 09:58 And we find in 1 Peter Chapter 5 starting with 10:02 verse 5, "Likewise, you younger people, 10:04 submit yourselves to the elders. 10:07 Yes all of you be submissive to one 10:09 and another, and be clothed with humility. 10:11 For God resisteth the proud, 10:14 but giveth grace to the humble. 10:16 Therefore Humble yourselves under 10:18 the mighty hand of God, 10:19 that he may exalt you in due time". 10:23 Not so that you may exalt yourself which is 10:26 what so many of us want to do. Right. 10:29 If we surrender to Him and humble ourselves 10:32 that is where we are exalted. 10:34 Right, now you have an interesting story, 10:37 I think you could tell us about how these took place, 10:40 the process of your learning some 10:42 surrender, yes, to your making quite 10:44 husband that you have. 10:45 Yes and it's been a long journey. 10:47 You know, I would like to put something in here 10:50 too, you know I knew Jeremy when he was oh 10:56 probably 12 or 11 and I knew his parents and I, 11:01 he was a quite young man then. 11:03 I really didn't know him, 11:04 of course much as I do now. 11:06 But I met him some years later, 11:09 and met Paula at the same time. 11:11 And he does have that sensitive nature, 11:14 doesn't he. Yes, he does. 11:15 He has a quite spirit, very sweet man. 11:18 And you had some steamrolling effects on 11:24 Jeremy, yes, and then learned how God 11:26 what have you to be. Yes I did. 11:27 How did that happen. 11:28 Well, I had lot of different circumstances 11:32 that occurred during my childhood that robbed me 11:35 of feeling that I had any kind 11:37 of control over my life. Right. 11:39 I had a breakup of my family. 11:41 There was some sexual abuse and these things 11:44 left me starving for feeling of control in my life. Right. 11:49 And not understanding God or any of God's 11:52 principles I felt that it was up to me 11:55 to take that control. 11:57 And so I began to do whatever I could in 11:59 relationships with friends with even with 12:03 my parents to try and manipulate 12:06 circumstances, so that I was always the one 12:09 in control of things and... 12:13 Well, in the control when you come out 12:16 of the situation like you were in. 12:18 One does have to learn to set boundaries. Yes. 12:21 And take some control, but yours went too far. 12:23 I was over stepping my boundaries. 12:24 I was walking all over other peoples boundaries 12:27 and not realizing it. 12:31 My attempts for control were my selfish nature 12:36 saying, I don't want to be hurt. 12:37 I never want to be hurt again. Right. 12:39 And so now I'm gonna control every person in 12:42 every situation that I entered into, 12:45 so that they cannot hurt me. 12:47 Right, well, I can understand that. 12:50 I was raised too with a very negative image 12:52 of what womanhood was about, surrender, 12:56 submission, those topics were never introduced 12:59 to me at an early age. 13:01 And as I made my way through academy, 13:03 I did have the privilege 13:05 of going to Christian high school. 13:08 And I started to read for myself after 13:10 I became a Christian my freshman year. 13:15 The books like Adventist Home and Messages to 13:17 Young People. Right. 13:18 And reading a Bible from myself when I started 13:20 to come up with questions that I presented 13:24 to my teachers asking, you know, 13:25 I'm reading this about surrender 13:28 and submission. Right. 13:29 Does this apply to women today? Yes. 13:33 And both my male and female teachers would 13:36 say oh no, you know, today things are 13:39 different and men and women were created equal 13:43 and they are equal in intelligence and ability 13:47 and so and so forth, so I was discourage 13:49 in pursuing my studies in that area. 13:52 You are not saying that women aren't equal 13:53 and intelligent, so nobody... 13:55 No, I'm not saying that. Yeah. No. 13:56 But it tended to go furthers and... 13:58 Right, it tended to go beyond that. 14:00 Okay, the advice that was given, okay. 14:02 And in pursuit of my control I started 14:05 reading a lot of material put out by 14:07 the feminist movement. Okay. 14:09 And feminism appealed to me because when I read 14:13 their materials it was angry and it was 14:15 powerful and I thought wow, 14:17 this is we're attacked. 14:19 You know, if I can just join myself to this 14:22 movement I will have control and I'll be able 14:26 to exalt myself, that was the underlying motive. 14:31 Yeah, what the enemy would have you to do. Yes. 14:33 And you went for it. 14:35 Yes I did and I carried these attitudes 14:39 and ideas with me up into college. 14:43 I met Jeremy while I was still in this mindset. 14:48 And at this point of life I was also 14:50 struggling with an eating disorder 14:51 bulimarexia where I would, 14:53 I would starve and starve and starve 14:56 and starve until I couldn't hold out on food any 14:59 more and then I would just binge, 15:02 just amazing how much I could eat. 15:04 And then I'll feel guilty after I ate 15:07 and go make myself through up in a toilet somewhere. 15:12 And this was my attempt to control myself. 15:15 I felt that a long as I was starving myself 15:17 and making my body feel tired and miserable, 15:20 I had control and that was one area of my life 15:23 that no one else could control. 15:25 And where you aware as the time that, 15:27 was control that you were after. No. 15:30 It was just happening that way. 15:32 It was just happening that way. 15:33 I was drawn toward behaviors that made me 15:36 feel safe that made me feel in control 15:39 and no one could force me to eat or not eat that was 15:42 something that I knew 15:43 I was solely responsible for it. Right. 15:46 So I meet Jeremy around this time 15:49 and I resumed my studies. 15:51 Jeremy was such a quite giving, 15:54 submissive young man. 15:56 I really admired him and I saw a lot of godly 16:00 in character traits in him that I wanted to emulate. 16:04 And so I began my study again 16:06 into submission and surrender. 16:09 And I read in the Adventist Home 16:12 and I would like to share this quote with the viewers. 16:17 About Eve and the situation that occurred 16:22 in the garden with Eve. 16:25 it says on page 115 of the Adventist Home. 16:28 Eve had been the first in transgression; 16:30 and she had fallen into temptation by separating 16:33 from her companion, contrary to the divine direction. 16:37 It was by her solicitation that Adam 16:39 sinned, and she was now placed 16:41 in subjection to her husband. 16:44 Had the principles enjoined in the law 16:45 of God been cherished by the fallen race, 16:47 this sentence, though growing out of the 16:49 results of sin, would have proved a blessing 16:52 to them; but man's abuse of the supremacy thus 16:55 given him has too often rendered the lot of 16:57 woman very bitter, and made her life a burden. 17:01 And I realize when I read that this is why we 17:03 have feminist movement. 17:05 But I felt that what I've been missing 17:09 in outlying my believe system with the feminist 17:15 was that if man and women had obey God 17:20 and lived out, the sentence that He gave them 17:24 because of the results of sin, 17:25 they both would have been extremely happy. 17:30 When Jeremy and I were married, 17:32 we were very young. 17:34 We did not know about sanctified romance, 17:39 right, of any kind and so I believe that 17:42 we rushed faster then we probably should I was 19 17:46 when I become a bride and bringing a lot 17:49 of baggage from my past into this marriage, yes. yeah. 17:54 And so we had lot of challenges to face. Right. 17:57 That we were totally unaware of before we got married. 18:01 These are things that were uncovered after we said I do. 18:06 And one of those things was just me walking 18:09 all over Jeremy and his ideas he wanted to be 18:12 the leader of the home, but being laidback 18:14 person, he wasn't quite sure how. 18:17 So he did have that desire, 18:19 it was not like he was unaware 18:20 that he needed to be there. Right. 18:21 But because of his personality, 18:23 it was easy for you to do this. 18:25 Right and I didn't, I was not aware that I was 18:29 manipulating him and treading all over his feelings. 18:33 I remember in the first year of our marriage 18:37 I started to treat him not like he was man 18:41 and leader of new family. 18:44 But almost as if he were a little boy. 18:47 I would pick out his clothes for him because 18:50 I didn't feel that he made wise choices in 18:54 color coordination and what socks match 18:57 what tie etcetera. 18:58 And these things seems over to me now, 19:00 he was a grown man, 19:01 of course he knew how to dress himself. 19:02 But to me it was a small way of me trying 19:06 to establish, I'm the one in control here. 19:10 He didn't ask you to do it. 19:11 No, he never asked me to do it. 19:13 In fact I could see that he looked hurt. 19:16 I remember we would be ready to walk out the 19:18 door for church and I would say honey, 19:20 are you really gonna wear that. 19:21 I would prefer that you wear such and such today 19:24 and seeing the look of hurt and rejection on his face. 19:28 But thinking that what I was doing was okay. 19:32 So I continue to steamroll him like this 19:34 throughout our marriage. 19:35 He would try and make a decision or he would 19:38 just state an opinion in public and I would be 19:42 elbowing him or giving him the look I had this 19:45 look that I can just melt him with. 19:47 That one eyebrow would go up and my husband 19:50 would just be quite and I was putting him in his place. 19:55 Well, this continued for almost three years 20:00 and one more morning while I was doing my devotions, 20:02 the Lord spoke to me I read particular passage 20:05 were John the Baptist says I must decrease 20:08 so that he may increase. 20:10 And it was like the Lord just smacked me 20:12 in the face and said wake up Paula. 20:14 You need to be quite and submissive, 20:18 so that he can grow to be 20:20 what I have designed him to be. 20:23 And it was quite a deep thought and we were just 20:25 sitting there stunned with this revelation. 20:29 And I began to pray about and as I prayed the Lord 20:31 showed me my treatment of my husband 20:33 through God's eyes. 20:36 And I saw the terrible things that I've done 20:40 to him and how I torn him down and damaged his 20:43 confidence as the priest and the leader of our home. 20:48 And it just broke my heart. 20:50 And I knelt down there and cried and just told 20:53 the Lord, you know, you revealed this to me, 20:55 I'm not sure what to do with it now, 20:56 you gonna have to teach me how to submit, 20:58 how to surrender and give him his rightful to 21:02 use as my husband. Right. 21:07 I went to a fair along about that time 21:12 and there was an event they called team pulling 21:14 and this is competition 21:16 between teams or draft horses. 21:18 These are the largest, 21:19 these are big boys of the horse world. 21:21 You said team pulling. Yes. Yeah, okay. 21:23 Clydesdales and Belgians and there will be two horses 21:26 hitched together and the driver brings 21:28 them up to big wagon with heavy load on it 21:32 and they are hitched to the wagon. 21:33 The driver gets up on the wagon and tries to 21:36 see how far his team can pull this weight. 21:39 And it just keeps going like a round robin 21:43 competition like that until the last team 21:45 is pulling the most weight. 21:48 You know, seeing, they are watching 21:49 and the drivers were bringing their teams out 21:52 on to the field where this event was held. 21:55 And I saw beautiful team of Belgians honey 21:58 colored, they were several hands above 22:01 the other teams on the field and I thought this for 22:04 sure is going to be the team that wins. 22:07 They were finely built and just look ten times 22:11 more powerful than any of the other teams around there. 22:14 And so I watched the driver brought them up 22:17 to the load and they were hitched up and then 22:21 he try to drive them forward. 22:23 Well, when we did this they just it look like 22:26 the two horse just came and glued and one was 22:29 pulling to the right 22:30 and other was pulling to the left. 22:32 Very uncooperative. 22:33 Kind of, yeah, prancing in place and not pulling 22:35 this load because they were not pulling 22:37 together and the Lord spoke to my mind 22:39 as I watched this and said Paula this is what your 22:43 marital experience has been up to this point. 22:45 Isn't it amazing where we can learn our lessons. 22:47 Yes, it's a humbling thing to be taught 22:50 lessons by beast. Yeah. 22:53 But I'm thankful that he has done this. 22:54 And of course I was able to apply this to 22:59 my experience in the marriage. 23:00 And often do we see among Christians 23:03 beautiful young couples who become hitched 23:06 together and when they are expected to pull 23:10 the load, the responsibilities 23:13 of married life and success of parenthood. 23:16 Right and don't understand how to do it. 23:18 Right, they are pulling different ways and we 23:23 cannot, I cannot tell the men what to do, 23:27 I'm not a man. 23:29 I try to share this with other women because 23:33 I feel like it needs to start with us and it had 23:39 to start with me. Right. 23:40 In order for my husband to wear the paints I had 23:43 to lay them down because two people cannot share 23:45 the same garment and this was all a very 23:48 humbling thing for me. Right. 23:52 The Lord tells us that His yoke is easy 23:54 and his burden is light. Right. 23:57 And I believe that he never meant for a couple 24:01 to struggle in marriage with their roles, 24:04 with even accepting their genders like we do. Right. 24:10 He expected for this whole experience to be 24:13 a light burden, something that He would bear with 24:17 us, and something that would be easier 24:19 when we both pull together. 24:22 You know, there are obstacles like the team 24:24 of horses, they could not pull that wagon 24:25 because they wouldn't pull together. Right. 24:27 Many times we cannot handle challenges 24:30 that we face with our children or with 24:33 deficits in our own personalities. Right. 24:36 Because we're just not pulling together 24:38 with God as the driver of our team. 24:41 You know, you said something a moment ago 24:43 that I think I need could be clarified 24:47 certain things that wife can do for her husband. 24:49 And I think probably what you were maybe 24:52 pointing out was that you had not agreed that 24:56 you could do this for Jeremy and that was 24:58 simple things in the home that tended, 25:00 that you tended to control him on or else 25:04 make him feel like he was not intelligent 25:07 enough to pick out his own clothes. Yes. 25:09 You may have done this with an air or an 25:11 attitude like you said sometimes the comment. 25:14 And you don't mean that one could plan this in 25:22 their family, you know, if a husband ask his 25:24 wife would you please take care of this for me, 25:27 that would be different, you see that right, 25:30 you could see that it would be different. Yes. 25:32 And, or helping each other and pulling 25:36 a load, certain things that the husband would 25:38 ask their wives to do. Yes. 25:40 That otherwise you wouldn't come up with on your own. 25:45 It would be different in that situation, 25:46 correct. Yes. Okay. 25:49 But even in that area they were I remember 25:50 times were he would ask me to do something 25:53 for him and I would just put it off, you know, oh, 25:56 you are not going to be the boss of me 25:58 I'm the boss here, yes. 26:00 With that thought. 26:01 I remember thinking that who are you? 26:03 You are not going to boss me around, 26:05 you know, and I regret so much. 26:10 We've been married for seven years now and the 26:12 Lord has worked a fabulous miracle 26:15 since I realized all of these things. 26:17 My prayer was, Lord show us what to do. Right. 26:20 And He has shown me these things. 26:23 And we are happier now than we ever were 26:27 when I was the leader and he was the follower. 26:31 The balancing side of this, 26:35 you will be sharing some of that with us, won't you. Yes. 26:38 And you are much happier now. Much. 26:41 Much happier I can see that's the case. 26:43 I know this is not really an issue that's easy for women. 26:47 No. It's very difficult. 26:48 We're going to have a guest in the future 26:52 that's going to be sharing a lot more 26:53 on women as wives, 26:56 women as mothers and women insociety. 26:59 Did you say all that you wanted to say on 27:00 women in society or the society in its 27:03 dysfunction as how it affected you? 27:06 Would you like to point out anything else 27:08 to the viewer that you might be aware of. 27:11 I feel it's important that as children 27:13 are growing, that we present clear roles for them. 27:16 This is something that we have lost sight off. 27:18 I think you are right. 27:19 I have acquaint the face gender blindness 27:23 to describe what I mean in that when children are 27:26 born today, they look at their mother, 27:29 they look at their father, 27:31 even if they are fortunate enough to have 27:33 mother and father living together. Right. 27:35 They don't really see clear rolls define 27:38 for them like in the past young men knew they 27:40 would grew up to farmers or workmen 27:42 and women grew up knowing to be mothers. 27:45 Okay, so we're gonna talk about the balance 27:47 next time, right. Yes. Okay. 27:49 We want so much to share these things with you. 27:53 And I hope that you will be interested enough to 27:55 join us again on Thinking About Home. |
Revised 2014-12-17