Participants: Kathy Matthews, John Tsigonoff, Karen Tsigonoff, Jennifer Jill Schwirzer
Series Code: TAH
Program Code: TAH000113
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00:31 Welcome to Thinking About Home. I'm Kathy
00:33 Matthews, and as you may remember we have 00:37 been discussing a love in the last days. 00:40 The deception of worldly love and the beauty 00:46 of God's Agape love. And last time we were 00:49 talking about the media and Jennifer Schwirzer 00:52 is with us again today and John and Karen 00:54 Tsigonoff and they're learners and listening to 00:58 the things that we are discussing because in 01:00 their lives they are wanting to learn how to 01:03 promote God's loves in their life, Agape love 01:06 and we are going to just jump right into our 01:08 subject here. Jennifer, we were talking about 01:12 how the media is promoting this false 01:14 love. That's right. So, what can you tell us on 01:15 that? Is said that Hollywood doesn't do 01:18 Agape love. Hollywood does Eros and the 01:22 powers in Hollywood pretty much totally 01:24 devote themselves to promoting this false idea 01:27 of love, which is the kind of love that love 01:30 selfishly, the kind of love that seeks after 01:35 someone else to acquire them for themselves 01:38 and in order to enrich self. Where as God's 01:41 loves by contrast is a type of love that gives 01:44 of itself in order to enrich someone else. 01:46 Right. Hollywood doesn't preach Agape. 01:48 No. It doesn't do Agape. Yeah. We were talking 01:53 about the movie The Titanic. And we started 01:54 out by showing all the awards that the movie 01:55 won. And people worked very hard on this 01:58 movie, it had a larger budget than any other 02:01 production has ever had and yet I think it was 02:04 more than that made the movie so successful. 02:07 As a matter of fact it went beyond what people 02:09 thought it would do. And my belief is that 02:11 people are searching for and desiring love in 02:15 their lives, they feel the vacuum and into 02:18 that vacuum the devil through the media 02:21 presents his most clever counterfeit for love. 02:24 Right. Which is Eros love; a self love that is 02:28 discussed as love for another. 02:31 Might even than almost to look as if it's 02:33 selfish, but you need to really understand 02:35 God's love to be able to discern it right? 02:37 That's right. And I was talking about the fact 02:40 that the movie has earned, as far as I 02:42 understand about two billion dollars, which is 02:45 also unprecedented. I took that figure, 02:48 I went to Africa in April on a mission trip and I 02:51 took that two billion dollar figure. 02:52 And I figured out how many people or how 02:55 much money excuse me would go to each 02:57 person in the country of Zambia, which is where 02:59 I went. If that two billion dollar figure was 03:02 divided up among the citizens of Zambia, 03:04 $200 a person, now to a Zambian that's a huge 03:07 amount of money. And yet that money is not 03:11 going to help the poor as far as I know, I think 03:13 it's probably going to make rich people richer. 03:17 And again it's promoting an idea of love that the 03:19 Bible does not agree with and yet it is very 03:22 deceptive and let me just share a little bit from 03:25 the movie with you. So that you can know in 03:27 what way it's deceptive, I wanna take the kind 03:30 of love that was promoted through the movie 03:33 and is so often promoted through the 03:34 media and was promoted. Right. In olden days 03:37 through Greek mythology and I wanna contrast 03:40 that with God's true Agape love so that we can 03:42 see the difference which is sometimes hard to 03:45 discern. I never saw the movie myself, 03:49 but I asked enough people that did see it, 03:50 what the basic thought line was. 03:52 And you did some studies on this, 03:53 on what it got, these awards and all that sort 03:56 of things. That's right. So that you could 03:57 familiarize yourself. That's right, and in the 04:00 story, this young man and woman fall in love 04:02 with each other. And when the ship starts 04:04 sinking she is lowered down in a lifeboat and 04:07 I actually saw this on a preview to the movie. 04:10 The women got out, the men were the ones that 04:12 have to stand aboard the ship while the women 04:14 got in the lifeboats. She is going down the side 04:16 of the ship in this lifeboat and she can't 04:18 stand the thought of being separated from this 04:20 boy she has just fallen in love with and she 04:22 jumps back aboard the ship. So, apparently this 04:24 girl would rather be, she would rather die with 04:28 this boy then live with out him. Seems like a 04:30 pretty strong love, doesn't it? Right. 04:32 And then at the end of the movie the two of 04:34 them are floating aboard a door. That is part of 04:37 the wreckage of the ship. And they realize that 04:39 the door can not support both of their weight 04:41 and so he lets her stay on the door and he sinks 04:45 down to his death. In the icy deep and he is 04:49 willing to die for her. Now that seems on the 04:54 surface to be a divine kind of love doesn't it? 04:57 Yes, it seems. And it seems to, and yet there 05:00 is a contrast and I wanna look at a text in 05:03 Romans chapter 5, verses 6, 7, and 8 and 05:06 I'm just gonna, I know by memory it says 05:08 scarcely for a righteous man will one die, 05:12 perhaps for a good man some would even dare 05:15 to die but God commends his love toward us 05:19 and that while we were yet sinners, Christ died 05:22 for the ungodly. Right, so the point is this that 05:26 these two lovers were willing to die for one 05:28 another. They did not want to be separated, 05:32 they had a love that we rarely see today. 05:36 There was a certain nobility to that love. 05:38 But, really what it was, was the very best, 05:40 that human love has to offer, it's a love that's 05:43 based on the worthiness of the object, of the 05:46 person who is loved. But only God's love will 05:51 die for someone unworthy. That's the difference. 05:55 That's a beautiful thing. Many people think that 05:58 passage in passage in Romans chapter 5 is based 06:00 on a Greek myth and let me just give that to you 06:02 in a nutshell. Okay. This is the myth of Alcestis 06:04 and Admetus. Admetus was a man who fell in 06:08 love with a beautiful woman named Alcestis 06:10 and he won her hand in marriage. 06:12 But, shortly after the marriage was contracted 06:14 he became ill and was apparently going to die. 06:17 However the Gods came into the picture and 06:19 they struck a deal with Admetus that if he were 06:22 to find someone who would die in his place he 06:25 would not have to die. So, he went around to all 06:27 his relatives and he said please, you know 06:30 somebody die in my place, he asked his aging 06:32 parents, you don't have much life left won't you 06:34 die in my place they wouldn't do it. He went 06:36 to his slaves, you know you are not pretty 06:38 probably thought they weren't worth too much 06:40 anyway, they wouldn't do it. Nobody would die 06:42 for him. Until finally Alcestis herself 06:45 volunteered and out of that context Paul says 06:50 sometimes the very best, the most noble of 06:54 human love is willing to lay its life down for a 06:57 good person. But, only God's love will die for 07:02 a sinner. I think that's a beautiful contrast 07:05 don't you. Oh! Absolutely. 07:06 Now I like to think about what would have 07:08 happened if Jack and Rose had lived. 07:10 Okay. The two lovers in the movie Titanic and 07:13 personally I think they would; was a good 07:15 chance that their marriage wouldn't have 07:17 survived. And I base that on statistics. 07:20 But, this is how it may have happened. 07:22 Okay. They get to the United States, okay, 07:24 they set up housekeeping. She has a couple of 07:26 children and you know, she had a tendency to 07:30 take a little weight, she gets kind of chubby as 07:31 women often do after bearing children and 07:32 you know he is a poor man and he an artist, 07:34 so we he has to work two jobs and you know 07:37 she is the one that's with the children all the 07:38 time, they have very little fatherly guidance 07:41 because he is always working. So, he starts to 07:43 come home every night and she is nagging him. 07:46 Pretty soon he doesn't even wanna come home 07:47 at night so he goes out and drinks with the guys 07:49 one night and then two nights then three nights 07:51 a week and pretty soon he is drinking pretty 07:54 heavily. And she is totally frustrated and the 07:57 marriage disintegrates and don't call me a 07:59 pessimist, you know what because the statistics 08:02 bear me out that there was a, almost a 50% 08:04 chance, that that's exactly what would have 08:06 happened, I wanna look at some of those 08:08 statistics. Okay. This is from the national center 08:10 for health statistics. And we're gonna see a 08:13 little about divorce. In 1996 there were 08:17 2,344,000 new marriages and 1,150,000 08:23 divorces. In 1988 there was a 43 percent chance 08:28 that new marriages would end in divorce. 08:31 Wow! Isn't that something? Yes. 08:34 It's kind of shocking. So, my pessimism is 08:36 pretty well substance, you know it's a pretty 08:39 reasonable pessimism isn't it. Yes, it is. 08:40 It was about a 50% failure rate in marriages 08:45 So, how do we avoid becoming one of those 08:46 statistics? Yeah, nobody wants to be a statistic, 08:49 how do we avoid it, good question. 08:51 I think God has a plan for courtship and I 08:54 wanna get into that because you know God 08:57 doesn't want us to be a casualty and I think if 09:01 we follow God's plan there are certain things 09:03 that we can learn in the courtship phase of life. 09:07 That we will also then use in our marriage and 09:13 in deep courtship can be a phase of life in which 09:14 we prepare for marriage by learning certain, 09:16 certain principles. Absolutely. 09:18 And I wanna look at those principles through 09:21 looking at a very beautiful story in the 09:23 Old Testament. God doesn't leave us does 09:26 he without an example to follow in this area. 09:29 He gives us. There is a theology on courtship in 09:32 the Bible I think. There is a theology on 09:33 courtship and my favorite theology and my 09:36 favorite passage is Genesis 24. It's a story 09:39 of Isaac and Rebecca. I think it's the most 09:43 exemplary courtship in the Bible don't you? 09:45 Yes, I do. It's well, it's probably the one that's 09:47 most detailed where we can see all the details 09:51 in it. That's right, that's right, 09:52 that's right and interestingly enough 09:55 there was no polygamy in the marriage of 09:57 Isaac and Rebecca. You remember Isaac's 10:00 father Abraham did have a second wife and 10:03 Isaac son Jacob was a polygamist and many of 10:06 the patriots were polygamists. 10:07 Unfortunately that was a common practice of 10:10 those days. That's right. Not an approved thing 10:12 of God but it was a practice around. 10:14 But, it was something that God reasons 10:16 according to his wisdom, didn't deal with right 10:19 at that time. Yes. And that's true. 10:22 But, this particular marriage had no polygamy. 10:26 And it had this exemplary courtship I think there 10:28 is a message there. Yes, I think you are 10:30 right. And I think the message is this. 10:32 Follow my will in the courtship phase of your 10:34 life and you will be more likely to follow my 10:37 principles in the marriage phase of life. 10:39 Oh! I think that's probably a very astute 10:42 assumption you have made. Okay, good, 10:44 alright. So, does that mean, in hearing that 10:48 would I, does that mean that we're not to go 10:52 along with our feelings? While looking for someone 10:56 to spend the rest of our life with, I mean do we 10:57 end up robots or. Well you said two different 11:00 things; you said that we shouldn't look to our 11:02 feeling in the choice of a life partner and I 11:05 would agree with that part but the second part 11:07 about being robots I wouldn't agree with. 11:09 Feelings are gonna be part of the courtship 11:12 process. Right. Yes. We are emotional beings. 11:14 Yes. And to just deny our feelings, right, 11:16 or to try to somehow snuff them out, 11:18 is not gonna work because you're emotional. 11:20 But, ordering them and guiding them by God's 11:23 word. That's right. Disciplining them. 11:24 The function of feelings is not to lead, principle 11:28 leads. And we have to remember that we are 11:30 fallen beings, we cannot any longer trust our 11:32 feelings. Right. So, God's will comes first. 11:35 So, let's look at this story and just take it 11:38 step by step and I'll be reading part of the 11:40 chapter and sharing the story of Isaac and 11:43 Rebecca and bringing out seven principles. 11:46 Seven things that Agape does in a Godly 11:49 courtship. The background of this is that Isaac 11:52 was of marriageable age. And verse 4, 11:55 Genesis chapter 24 has Abraham telling his 11:59 servant Eliezer to go to "my go my country and 12:04 to my relatives and take a wife for my son 12:07 Isaac." He did not want him to take a wife from 12:11 among the heathen people, the Canaanites 12:13 that were in that area so, the servant was to go 12:15 back to Mesopotamia, find Abraham's relatives 12:19 and find a believing wife from among them. 12:21 Right. That is the first principle and that 12:23 principle is that Agape respects God-given 12:28 boundaries. Yes. This is not spiritual snobbery. 12:31 Yeah. This is good commonsense and as 12:33 I see it there are two reasons for this. Right. 12:36 The Lord tells us to marry someone who 12:38 believes like us. Amen. For two reasons the 12:40 obvious one being that it will easier to get 12:42 along with someone who you agree with it. 12:44 Right. But, the other reason is this that a 12:47 third entity is created in a marriage. 12:51 Not only are two people serving the Lord 12:53 individually, but a couple is serving the 12:55 Lord in a marriage. And so the whole in a 12:58 marriage is greater than the some of the parts as 13:02 pertains to the service of God. You see what I'm 13:05 saying, so the potential in a marriage is very 13:07 great. In terms of what a married couple can do. 13:10 For the honor and glory of God. Right. 13:12 So, why miss out on the chance to marry 13:15 someone that you can pool your energies with 13:17 in that respect and bring glory to God. 13:20 Well a thought just came to me of another 13:21 scripture where Christ is the head and we are 13:24 his bride or we are the body. That's right. 13:26 As one with him to parts him the head, 13:29 us the body, that's right. But he the groom, 13:33 we the bride. We the bride. 13:34 And but are to work as one. That's right, 13:37 that's right. So, the story goes on and I'm 13:41 gonna read verse 5 now of Genesis chapter 24, 13:45 And the servant said to him, suppose the 13:47 woman will not be willing to follow me to this 13:49 land. Should I take your son back to the land 13:52 from where you came? And Abraham said to 13:54 him, Beware lest you take my son back there. 13:57 The Lord, the God of heaven, who took me 13:59 from my father's house and from the land of my 14:02 birth, and who spoke to me and who swore to 14:04 me, saying, 'To your descendants I will give 14:06 this land,' He will send His angel before you, 14:11 and you will take a wife for my son from there. 14:16 Here is the second principle. Agape puts God 14:19 first. Amen. That may seem obvious, 14:22 but it cuts straight across our cardinal 14:24 nature. That's right. It does. To put God 14:26 first, especially in his area of choosing a life 14:29 partner. I know. We have his attitude 14:31 naturally that this is one thing that's just 14:33 between me and me. Right. Don't anybody get 14:36 involved in this process. Not even God. 14:37 Not even God and we are very prone to exclude 14:40 him from. And surely God just can't understand 14:42 my emotions. That's right. Obviously. 14:44 That's right. You know God is going to deny 14:47 me of something that I really do like. 14:49 You know God created me and he created all 14:51 my complex emotions. And certainly he can't 14:53 understand. We need to recognize that. 14:55 The third principle that I wanna bring out is 14:58 something that's implicit here. The servant is 15:02 going to find a wife for Isaac, but he is doing it 15:07 at Abraham's bidding. And evidently Isaac is 15:11 cooperating with the program. Obviously. 15:14 Agape respects authority. This is something we 15:18 have totally lost sight of. Yes. 15:21 And I would like to communicate to the young 15:22 people that are listening, take people 15:25 into your confidence. People you can respect, 15:28 people that you know are Godly people and 15:30 respect their authority, ask for their opinion. 15:33 And trust it. That's right, 15:36 ask for their opinion and get people involved 15:39 especially authority figures. Now it may not 15:41 always be a parent. It may have to be a 15:44 guardian. It may have to be a spiritual 15:46 guardian or elder pastor. Somebody 15:47 that I would say an experienced Christian 15:51 person. Not just a Christian, but an 15:53 experienced Christian person. Because many 15:55 Christians they don't understand this subject. 15:57 That's right. It needs to be somebody who 15:58 understands this subject to guide you rightly. 16:00 In regards to teachers. Yeah. And in regards to 16:03 your parents even if they are not believers they 16:05 may have some wisdom to offer you anyway so 16:07 by all means ask their opinion, let me just 16:09 share something that happened with my 16:10 courtship with my husband. He was 16:12 determined to do it by the book and you have 16:14 to realize I wasn't a Christian growing up and 16:16 I was dating from sixth grade on. I went 16:19 studying in sixth grade, I was 11 years old. 16:22 So, I had always done exactly what I wanted 16:24 to do. And my husband comes along and he 16:27 wants to court me, I'm 21 years old. And he 16:30 calls my mother and says can I have a courtship 16:32 with your daughter. And my mother was just 16:34 like why he is asking me this, she has been 16:37 doing whatever she wanted since she was 11 16:39 years old and now she's 21 and he asked me if 16:41 he can have a courtship with her. She doesn't 16:43 even know what a courtship is you know. 16:45 So, sometimes it's difficult to fit your 16:48 parent into the Abraham paradigm you know, 16:51 right. But by all means asked their opinion 16:53 about this person you are considering and do 16:55 take spiritual authorities into your confidence. 16:58 Right. I would like to just say one sentence 17:00 about our life and recently Sarah has been 17:04 having some letter writing going on and 17:08 learning about a person in relationship and it 17:10 has been amazing how she would ask us our 17:15 advice and we love it, we love it. And because 17:18 she is asking our advice we tend to want to 17:22 bring her out and say, what do you think is 17:25 best. Instead of just telling her, 17:26 that's right, and, she is open, but she is open 17:30 to us. So, I know that she is kind of in a safe 17:32 thought you know way of emotions there. 17:35 Alright, the next part of the story is in verse 10 17:38 it says the servant took ten camels from the 17:40 camels of his master, set out with a variety 17:43 of good things. He took ten camels full of good 17:47 things, the next principle is that Agape 17:50 provides for the future. Oh! There is a lost 17:53 one too. That's right, I was talking, that's 17:55 coming in today, couple of weeks ago to a man 17:57 who is a very generous man, he does a lot of 17:59 ministry to youth and he said one of these 18:00 young people approached him and 18:02 hey I need $300 to buy a weeding ring, 18:04 I wanna get married and the man who would 18:06 normally would be willing to share of his money 18:08 and whatever, he said no. If you can't even buy 18:11 a wedding band, this is a fairly an expensive 18:15 piece of jewelery, if you can't buy that then you 18:17 have no right getting married. Right. 18:19 We need to provide for the future and be 18:21 practical. The story goes on and it talks about 18:25 the servant getting to a city called Nahor. 18:29 And it says he made the camels kneel down 18:31 outside the city which is in Mesopotamia, yes, 18:34 by the well of water at evening time, the time 18:36 when women go out to draw water. And he said, 18:38 "O Lord God of my master Abraham, 18:40 please grant me success today, and show loving 18:43 kindness to my master Abraham." That's the 18:45 fifth principle I wanna bring out, Agape thinks 18:48 of everyone involved. He was praying for the 18:51 happiness of Abraham, we typically think of 18:54 marriage and the choice of a marriage partner 18:57 only in regards to the happiness of the people 18:58 getting married. Right. But, in fact that person 19:01 will impact, your brothers, your sisters, 19:04 your friends, your parents, mother, father, 19:05 yes. Right. Think about everybody involved. 19:08 You know the Jewish mind was more capable 19:10 and more prone to accept the corporate nature 19:14 of man. They saw themselves as part of 19:16 a web of humanity. Right. In western culture 19:18 today we have this rugged individualist attitude 19:21 and we've lost sight of the cooperativeness of 19:24 human nature. That we are accountable to 19:26 others. That we are accountable to one 19:27 another and we affect one another. 19:28 There is a ripple effect that goes out from each 19:30 one of us. Okay, so in verse 13, the servant 19:37 prays "Behold I'm standing by the spring 19:40 and the daughters of the men of the city are 19:42 coming out to draw water. Now may it be 19:44 that the girl to whom I say, Please let down 19:46 your jar so that I may drink, and who answers 19:48 drink, and I'll water your camels also may 19:51 she be the one, whom thou has appointed for 19:54 my thy servant Isaac. And by this I shall know 19:57 that thou has shown love and kindness to my 19:59 master." In other words he prayed, I will ask a 20:02 girl for water and she will offer water to my 20:05 camels as well and by that I will know that 20:07 she is the one you have chosen. Right, 20:09 now I wanna look for moment at what he 20:11 prayed, he could have prayed send me 20:13 a blonde, he could have said make sure she is 20:16 gorgeous. But, he prayed about a quality of 20:19 character and from that I wanna extract the 20:22 sixth principle which is Agape is more 20:24 concerned with the inside than the outside. 20:28 You know I think personal appearance is 20:31 important, yes, and I think people need to be 20:33 attracted to one another, but I think we put too 20:36 much emphasis on it. We have a very looksist 20:38 culture and a very looksist mindset. I was 20:40 sharing the story with my daughter she got 20:43 all squirmy and I said what's the matter honey 20:45 and she said, well you know I don't want God to 20:48 pick for me, pick my husband for me. She is 20:50 like 7 seven years old. And I said well why not 20:53 she said what if he is ugly, and I said why do 20:55 you think he will be ugly God cares if you feel 20:58 attracted to him or not she is, she said I just 21:00 don't think that Isaac was good looking. 21:02 And I said well why do you not think that, 21:05 she says Rebecca was beautiful she says yeah 21:06 but not Isaac you know. And I said why do you 21:09 think that. It turned out with the end of the story 21:11 she sees Isaac at a distance, she asked the 21:13 servant who is that he says its Isaac you know, 21:15 she knows that this is one she is gonna marry, 21:17 she jumps off her camel and it says she puts 21:19 her veil over her, she covers her face with her 21:21 veil and I just read she covers her face and so 21:24 Allison thought that she was going, Oh! 21:26 No he is so ugly please, you know so I had to 21:30 explain her the custom of veiling the face. 21:33 But that is a real concern for people. 21:35 Will I be physically attracted, if I let God 21:36 for me. That's right. I don't think we have to 21:38 worry about that. I think you're correct, 21:39 God cares about little details like that. 21:42 But, we need to be concerned about 21:43 character. Right. Because character is what 21:45 makes or breaks the relationship in the long 21:46 run. So, the story goes on, and his prayer was 21:52 miraculously answered she does exactly what 21:54 he prays then she, then he finds out the she is 21:57 a relative of Abraham and he falls down and 21:59 worships the Lord, he ends up at the house to 22:02 have dinner and he spills out his whole story 22:05 and they see the hand of God in it and the next 22:07 morning the servant wants to go back with 22:08 the girl and the relatives say whoa! Wait a 22:10 minute you know we want her here for 10 days 22:12 you know, we are not quite ready for this, 22:15 but then they say something really 22:17 interesting and I wanna look at that. 22:20 It says verse 56 he said to them, Oh! No I'm 22:25 sorry. In verse 57, We will call the girl and 22:28 consult her wishes. The last principle, 22:31 I wanna bring out is that Agape is always a 22:35 choice. Even in this custom of prearranged 22:37 marriages which is no longer something we do. 22:40 In God's prearranged marriages. 22:41 In God's prearranged marriages there was 22:43 always a choice. The person could say yeah 22:47 or nay. Absolutely. And the point is that you 22:49 cannot force a person to love. You can't like 22:52 what if you were to take a gun to his head and 22:54 say now love me. You know it wouldn't work, 22:57 you cannot force love, it is a choice. 23:00 And so that's the beautiful story of Isaac 23:02 and Rebecca, and those were the principles that 23:04 the Lord is trying to share with us. 23:06 Proper courtship. And betrothal. 23:09 That's right. You know I bring that word in, 23:10 I don't know we haven't use that word at all. 23:12 So, what does that mean? Betrothal. 23:13 Betrothing someone who was it, Mary was 23:18 Betrothed to Joseph. That's right, they were. 23:19 Promise contracted. It was contracted or 23:21 promise contracted or promised already. 23:22 They were promised and seen were maybe 23:24 I'm wrong but wasn't she already seen as his 23:29 wife, and as married. As I understand it 23:31 typically a man would contract with a woman, 23:33 she would be asked permission, he would 23:34 contract with the father and then if girl agreed 23:36 the contract would be sealed and he would leave 23:39 for a year and build a house and that's the 23:42 custom on which this passage of scripture is 23:44 based where Jesus says I go to prepare a place 23:46 for you and I will come again and receive you 23:48 to me. Isn't that beautiful? Yes it is. 23:50 I will receive you unto myself, that was the 23:52 Betrothal. Oh! I like that. I do too. 23:54 It kind of makes my heart go. 23:56 Maybe women like it more. Women like houses you 23:59 know. Well there's, well its Agape is always 24:05 a choice now, you've left us with that and 24:07 that's good and all of these principles and I 24:09 think people would have probably really 24:11 enjoyed this story, I have anyway and saying 24:14 these principles of courtship. And there is a 24:17 movement going on in this today. Where people 24:20 are moving back, families, parents and 24:23 not and singles are seeing the necessity 24:27 to move to this way of finding a companion 24:30 and having love in their home, but we need to 24:33 get John and Karen's response now. 24:36 We have a little response from you guys, 24:38 before we close. Oh! Definitely, 24:41 brings to mind and it's just amazing to me how 24:43 even through what we; what we were raised in, 24:47 and everything we watched and saw and the 24:50 things we saw in our family life, 24:53 God can bring us out of that. Amen. 24:55 God brought us together in fault, yet brought us 24:59 out of that together and we are learning and it's 25:03 just amazing. What do you think of God's 25:04 Agape love? It's more than I ever at all you 25:07 know I'm feeling tearful, it's more than I ever 25:10 imagined, right, and all this time I had no idea 25:14 that he loved me so much that he was willing to 25:16 allow me to feel this kind of love. Right. 25:18 And he is willing to show me the tools and it 25:21 just, it helps me to realize that, you know 25:24 there is a lot more we have to learn. 25:26 There is a lot more waiting for you. 25:28 Right. Right. How about you John? 25:31 Well, I can realize in the beginning when we 25:35 first started our relationship we had more 25:38 of the Eros love and we had none of these 25:43 Agape principles. Right. And since we have 25:46 been studying with you and Tom, we've learned 25:50 you know more of these Agape principles, 25:53 but one thing that Jennifer said that really 25:55 struck in my mind was Agape it puts God first. 25:59 Amen. And that's you know I think that's the 26:02 most important thing. That's beautiful. 26:04 And that's one thing that I can say for myself that 26:07 that I really needed to work on because I've, 26:10 I was always putting everything else first. 26:12 You know I had all of these other Agape 26:15 principles that I was learning. Yes. 26:18 I was now putting God first. Amen. 26:21 You for you to recognize that I can see you're 26:24 on the road to healing, Amen. 26:26 And I would like to say something in closing 26:27 to those that recognize that they did not follow 26:30 God's plan. Right. Sometimes looking at 26:33 courtship and looking at the high idea that God 26:35 has for us, actually provokes a response in 26:37 some people of defeat, because I already blew it 26:40 and they even feel sometimes that their 26:42 marriage is cursed, and I just wanna 26:45 encourage those people that are out there, 26:47 God is able to heal, he is able to pick up where 26:49 you left off, God is in the business of taking 26:53 broken pieces, just like the show you and I 26:55 wanna spend my life mending broken people. 26:57 God lives to mend broken people and if 26:59 you're willing he will make a monument of his 27:02 Agape out of your marriage, no matter of 27:04 what your past is and I think of Mary 27:06 Magdalene when I think of this because she was 27:09 someone who knew better and yet fell into 27:11 a lifestyle that was totally opposed to God's 27:14 plan for her life. Right. And yet she was the one 27:17 disciple that Jesus commended more than any 27:20 other disciple not because of her mistakes 27:22 but because of her faith. Right. 27:24 He said whatever this Gospel is preached, 27:27 tell what she's done, he said nothing of that 27:29 nature to any of the other disciples, but he 27:33 said it of her because of her faith. Amen. 27:35 Through faith God can restore everything we've 27:38 lost through sin. Oh! I believe it, Amen, 27:41 you know and he wants us to be in heaven with 27:43 him don't you know that. Yes. I want to 27:45 thank you Jennifer for being with us, 27:47 it's been exciting. And I'm glad that John 27:49 and Karen has been with us. 27:50 Thank you Kathy. And I thank you for being 27:52 with us. May you find true Godly Agape 27:55 love in your home. And join us again 27:57 on Thinking about Home. |
Revised 2014-12-17