Welcome to Thinking
About Home. I'm Kathy
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Matthews, and as
you may remember we have
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been discussing a
love in the last days.
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The deception of
worldly love and the beauty
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of God's Agape love.
And last time we were
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talking about the
media and Jennifer Schwirzer
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is with us again
today and John and Karen
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Tsigonoff and they're
learners and listening to
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the things that we
are discussing because in
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their lives they are
wanting to learn how to
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promote God's loves
in their life, Agape love
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and we are going to
just jump right into our
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subject here.
Jennifer, we were talking about
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how the media is
promoting this false
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love. That's right.
So, what can you tell us on
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that? Is said that
Hollywood doesn't do
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Agape love.
Hollywood does Eros and the
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powers in
Hollywood pretty much totally
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devote themselves to
promoting this false idea
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of love, which is the
kind of love that love
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selfishly, the kind
of love that seeks after
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someone else to
acquire them for themselves
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and in order to
enrich self. Where as God's
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loves by contrast is a
type of love that gives
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of itself in order
to enrich someone else.
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Right. Hollywood
doesn't preach Agape.
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No. It doesn't do
Agape. Yeah. We were talking
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about the movie The
Titanic. And we started
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out by showing all
the awards that the movie
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won. And people
worked very hard on this
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movie, it had a
larger budget than any other
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production has ever
had and yet I think it was
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more than that made
the movie so successful.
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As a matter of fact it
went beyond what people
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thought it would do.
And my belief is that
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people are searching
for and desiring love in
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their lives, they
feel the vacuum and into
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that vacuum the
devil through the media
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presents his most
clever counterfeit for love.
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Right. Which is Eros
love; a self love that is
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discussed as love for another.
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Might even than
almost to look as if it's
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selfish, but you
need to really understand
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God's love to be
able to discern it right?
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That's right. And I
was talking about the fact
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that the movie has
earned, as far as I
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understand about two
billion dollars, which is
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also unprecedented.
I took that figure,
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I went to Africa in
April on a mission trip and I
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took that two
billion dollar figure.
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And I figured out
how many people or how
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much money excuse
me would go to each
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person in the country
of Zambia, which is where
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I went. If that two
billion dollar figure was
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divided up among
the citizens of Zambia,
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$200 a person, now to
a Zambian that's a huge
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amount of money. And
yet that money is not
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going to help the poor
as far as I know, I think
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it's probably going to
make rich people richer.
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And again it's promoting
an idea of love that the
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Bible does not agree
with and yet it is very
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deceptive and let me
just share a little bit from
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the movie with you.
So that you can know in
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what way it's
deceptive, I wanna take the kind
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of love that was
promoted through the movie
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and is so often
promoted through the
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media and was
promoted. Right. In olden days
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through Greek
mythology and I wanna contrast
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that with God's true
Agape love so that we can
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see the difference
which is sometimes hard to
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discern. I never
saw the movie myself,
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but I asked enough
people that did see it,
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what the basic thought line was.
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And you did
some studies on this,
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on what it got, these
awards and all that sort
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of things. That's
right. So that you could
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familiarize yourself.
That's right, and in the
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story, this young man
and woman fall in love
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with each other.
And when the ship starts
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sinking she is
lowered down in a lifeboat and
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I actually saw this on
a preview to the movie.
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The women got out,
the men were the ones that
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have to stand aboard
the ship while the women
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got in the lifeboats.
She is going down the side
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of the ship in this
lifeboat and she can't
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stand the thought of
being separated from this
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boy she has just
fallen in love with and she
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jumps back aboard the
ship. So, apparently this
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girl would rather be,
she would rather die with
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this boy then live
with out him. Seems like a
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pretty strong
love, doesn't it? Right.
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And then at the end
of the movie the two of
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them are floating
aboard a door. That is part of
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the wreckage of the
ship. And they realize that
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the door can not
support both of their weight
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and so he lets her stay
on the door and he sinks
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down to his death. In
the icy deep and he is
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willing to die for
her. Now that seems on the
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surface to be a divine
kind of love doesn't it?
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Yes, it seems. And it
seems to, and yet there
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is a contrast and I
wanna look at a text in
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Romans chapter 5,
verses 6, 7, and 8 and
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I'm just gonna, I
know by memory it says
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scarcely for a
righteous man will one die,
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perhaps for a good
man some would even dare
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to die but God
commends his love toward us
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and that while we were
yet sinners, Christ died
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for the ungodly. Right,
so the point is this that
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these two lovers were
willing to die for one
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another. They did
not want to be separated,
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they had a love
that we rarely see today.
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There was a certain
nobility to that love.
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But, really what it
was, was the very best,
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that human love has to
offer, it's a love that's
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based on the
worthiness of the object, of the
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person who is loved.
But only God's love will
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die for someone
unworthy. That's the difference.
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That's a beautiful
thing. Many people think that
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passage in passage in
Romans chapter 5 is based
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on a Greek myth and let
me just give that to you
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in a nutshell. Okay.
This is the myth of Alcestis
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and Admetus. Admetus
was a man who fell in
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love with a
beautiful woman named Alcestis
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and he won her hand in marriage.
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But, shortly after the
marriage was contracted
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he became ill and was
apparently going to die.
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However the Gods
came into the picture and
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they struck a deal
with Admetus that if he were
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to find someone who
would die in his place he
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would not have to die.
So, he went around to all
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his relatives and he
said please, you know
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somebody die in my
place, he asked his aging
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parents, you don't have
much life left won't you
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die in my place they
wouldn't do it. He went
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to his slaves, you
know you are not pretty
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probably thought they
weren't worth too much
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anyway, they wouldn't
do it. Nobody would die
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for him. Until
finally Alcestis herself
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volunteered and out
of that context Paul says
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sometimes the very
best, the most noble of
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human love is willing
to lay its life down for a
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good person. But, only
God's love will die for
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a sinner. I think
that's a beautiful contrast
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don't you. Oh! Absolutely.
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Now I like to think
about what would have
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happened if Jack
and Rose had lived.
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Okay. The two lovers
in the movie Titanic and
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personally I think
they would; was a good
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chance that their
marriage wouldn't have
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survived. And I
base that on statistics.
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But, this is how
it may have happened.
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Okay. They get to
the United States, okay,
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they set up housekeeping.
She has a couple of
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children and you
know, she had a tendency to
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take a little weight,
she gets kind of chubby as
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women often do
after bearing children and
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you know he is a
poor man and he an artist,
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so we he has to work
two jobs and you know
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she is the one that's
with the children all the
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time, they have very
little fatherly guidance
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because he is always
working. So, he starts to
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come home every night
and she is nagging him.
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Pretty soon he
doesn't even wanna come home
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at night so he goes out
and drinks with the guys
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one night and then two
nights then three nights
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a week and pretty
soon he is drinking pretty
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heavily. And she is
totally frustrated and the
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marriage disintegrates
and don't call me a
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pessimist, you know
what because the statistics
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bear me out that
there was a, almost a 50%
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chance, that that's
exactly what would have
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happened, I wanna
look at some of those
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statistics. Okay. This
is from the national center
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for health statistics.
And we're gonna see a
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little about
divorce. In 1996 there were
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2,344,000 new
marriages and 1,150,000
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divorces. In 1988
there was a 43 percent chance
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that new marriages
would end in divorce.
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Wow! Isn't that something? Yes.
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It's kind of
shocking. So, my pessimism is
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pretty well substance,
you know it's a pretty
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reasonable pessimism
isn't it. Yes, it is.
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It was about a 50%
failure rate in marriages
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So, how do we avoid
becoming one of those
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statistics? Yeah,
nobody wants to be a statistic,
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how do we avoid
it, good question.
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I think God has a
plan for courtship and I
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wanna get into that
because you know God
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doesn't want us to be
a casualty and I think if
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we follow God's plan
there are certain things
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that we can learn in
the courtship phase of life.
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That we will also then
use in our marriage and
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in deep courtship can
be a phase of life in which
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we prepare for
marriage by learning certain,
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certain principles. Absolutely.
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And I wanna look at
those principles through
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looking at a very
beautiful story in the
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Old Testament. God
doesn't leave us does
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he without an example
to follow in this area.
00:09:26.77\00:09:29.14
He gives us. There is a
theology on courtship in
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the Bible I think.
There is a theology on
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courtship and my
favorite theology and my
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favorite passage is
Genesis 24. It's a story
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of Isaac and
Rebecca. I think it's the most
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exemplary courtship
in the Bible don't you?
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Yes, I do. It's well,
it's probably the one that's
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most detailed where we
can see all the details
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in it. That's
right, that's right,
00:09:51.40\00:09:52.37
that's right and
interestingly enough
00:09:52.62\00:09:55.26
there was no
polygamy in the marriage of
00:09:55.39\00:09:57.22
Isaac and Rebecca.
You remember Isaac's
00:09:57.44\00:10:00.04
father Abraham did
have a second wife and
00:10:00.13\00:10:03.03
Isaac son Jacob was a
polygamist and many of
00:10:03.51\00:10:06.01
the patriots were polygamists.
00:10:06.04\00:10:07.28
Unfortunately that
was a common practice of
00:10:07.60\00:10:10.17
those days. That's
right. Not an approved thing
00:10:10.29\00:10:12.25
of God but it was
a practice around.
00:10:12.41\00:10:13.91
But, it was
something that God reasons
00:10:14.02\00:10:16.40
according to his
wisdom, didn't deal with right
00:10:16.56\00:10:19.38
at that time.
Yes. And that's true.
00:10:19.55\00:10:21.73
But, this particular
marriage had no polygamy.
00:10:22.67\00:10:25.36
And it had this exemplary
courtship I think there
00:10:26.11\00:10:28.49
is a message there.
Yes, I think you are
00:10:28.60\00:10:30.13
right. And I think
the message is this.
00:10:30.16\00:10:31.28
Follow my will in the
courtship phase of your
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life and you will be
more likely to follow my
00:10:34.23\00:10:37.60
principles in the
marriage phase of life.
00:10:37.81\00:10:39.63
Oh! I think that's
probably a very astute
00:10:39.75\00:10:41.90
assumption you
have made. Okay, good,
00:10:42.24\00:10:43.73
alright. So, does
that mean, in hearing that
00:10:44.49\00:10:47.79
would I, does that
mean that we're not to go
00:10:48.68\00:10:52.28
along with our feelings?
While looking for someone
00:10:52.45\00:10:55.50
to spend the rest of
our life with, I mean do we
00:10:56.17\00:10:57.71
end up robots or.
Well you said two different
00:10:57.84\00:11:00.50
things; you said that
we shouldn't look to our
00:11:00.58\00:11:02.56
feeling in the choice
of a life partner and I
00:11:02.72\00:11:05.41
would agree with that
part but the second part
00:11:05.49\00:11:07.65
about being robots
I wouldn't agree with.
00:11:07.73\00:11:09.22
Feelings are gonna
be part of the courtship
00:11:09.68\00:11:12.10
process. Right. Yes.
We are emotional beings.
00:11:12.27\00:11:14.84
Yes. And to just
deny our feelings, right,
00:11:14.95\00:11:16.96
or to try to
somehow snuff them out,
00:11:16.99\00:11:18.35
is not gonna work
because you're emotional.
00:11:18.89\00:11:20.57
But, ordering them
and guiding them by God's
00:11:20.74\00:11:22.94
word. That's
right. Disciplining them.
00:11:23.11\00:11:24.62
The function of feelings
is not to lead, principle
00:11:24.92\00:11:27.74
leads. And we have
to remember that we are
00:11:28.13\00:11:29.78
fallen beings, we
cannot any longer trust our
00:11:30.06\00:11:32.76
feelings. Right. So,
God's will comes first.
00:11:32.93\00:11:35.48
So, let's look at
this story and just take it
00:11:35.61\00:11:37.94
step by step and I'll
be reading part of the
00:11:38.04\00:11:40.74
chapter and sharing
the story of Isaac and
00:11:40.98\00:11:43.75
Rebecca and bringing
out seven principles.
00:11:43.90\00:11:46.48
Seven things that
Agape does in a Godly
00:11:46.55\00:11:49.10
courtship. The
background of this is that Isaac
00:11:49.31\00:11:52.24
was of
marriageable age. And verse 4,
00:11:52.39\00:11:54.71
Genesis chapter 24
has Abraham telling his
00:11:55.24\00:11:59.58
servant Eliezer to go
to "my go my country and
00:11:59.61\00:12:04.44
to my relatives and
take a wife for my son
00:12:04.54\00:12:07.13
Isaac." He did not
want him to take a wife from
00:12:07.38\00:12:11.08
among the heathen
people, the Canaanites
00:12:11.14\00:12:13.61
that were in that area
so, the servant was to go
00:12:13.64\00:12:15.76
back to Mesopotamia,
find Abraham's relatives
00:12:15.92\00:12:19.04
and find a believing
wife from among them.
00:12:19.36\00:12:21.39
Right. That is the
first principle and that
00:12:21.42\00:12:23.44
principle is that
Agape respects God-given
00:12:23.71\00:12:28.16
boundaries. Yes. This
is not spiritual snobbery.
00:12:28.44\00:12:31.46
Yeah. This is
good commonsense and as
00:12:31.75\00:12:33.79
I see it there are two
reasons for this. Right.
00:12:33.88\00:12:35.97
The Lord tells us
to marry someone who
00:12:36.17\00:12:37.92
believes like us.
Amen. For two reasons the
00:12:38.07\00:12:40.06
obvious one being
that it will easier to get
00:12:40.33\00:12:42.21
along with someone
who you agree with it.
00:12:42.48\00:12:43.85
Right. But, the
other reason is this that a
00:12:44.03\00:12:47.23
third entity is
created in a marriage.
00:12:47.48\00:12:49.53
Not only are two
people serving the Lord
00:12:51.54\00:12:53.25
individually, but a
couple is serving the
00:12:53.82\00:12:55.65
Lord in a marriage.
And so the whole in a
00:12:55.86\00:12:58.55
marriage is greater
than the some of the parts as
00:12:58.82\00:13:02.34
pertains to the service
of God. You see what I'm
00:13:02.54\00:13:05.41
saying, so the
potential in a marriage is very
00:13:05.59\00:13:07.72
great. In terms of what
a married couple can do.
00:13:07.94\00:13:10.18
For the honor and
glory of God. Right.
00:13:10.66\00:13:12.16
So, why miss out
on the chance to marry
00:13:12.59\00:13:15.16
someone that you can
pool your energies with
00:13:15.36\00:13:17.32
in that respect
and bring glory to God.
00:13:17.35\00:13:20.31
Well a thought just
came to me of another
00:13:20.55\00:13:21.77
scripture where
Christ is the head and we are
00:13:21.97\00:13:24.15
his bride or we are
the body. That's right.
00:13:24.31\00:13:26.03
As one with him to
parts him the head,
00:13:26.63\00:13:29.50
us the body, that's
right. But he the groom,
00:13:29.65\00:13:33.38
we the bride. We the bride.
00:13:33.48\00:13:34.49
And but are to work
as one. That's right,
00:13:34.69\00:13:36.93
that's right. So,
the story goes on and I'm
00:13:37.33\00:13:41.43
gonna read verse 5
now of Genesis chapter 24,
00:13:41.47\00:13:44.66
And the servant
said to him, suppose the
00:13:45.14\00:13:47.56
woman will not be
willing to follow me to this
00:13:47.79\00:13:49.59
land. Should I take
your son back to the land
00:13:49.84\00:13:52.29
from where you
came? And Abraham said to
00:13:52.45\00:13:54.80
him, Beware lest you
take my son back there.
00:13:54.83\00:13:56.85
The Lord, the God
of heaven, who took me
00:13:57.42\00:13:59.23
from my father's house
and from the land of my
00:13:59.44\00:14:01.99
birth, and who spoke
to me and who swore to
00:14:02.28\00:14:04.43
me, saying, 'To your
descendants I will give
00:14:04.50\00:14:06.05
this land,' He will
send His angel before you,
00:14:06.25\00:14:11.06
and you will take a
wife for my son from there.
00:14:11.68\00:14:15.88
Here is the second
principle. Agape puts God
00:14:16.33\00:14:19.18
first. Amen.
That may seem obvious,
00:14:19.61\00:14:21.83
but it cuts
straight across our cardinal
00:14:22.43\00:14:24.46
nature. That's
right. It does. To put God
00:14:24.52\00:14:25.93
first, especially in
his area of choosing a life
00:14:26.18\00:14:28.84
partner. I know.
We have his attitude
00:14:29.12\00:14:31.22
naturally that this
is one thing that's just
00:14:31.65\00:14:33.51
between me and me.
Right. Don't anybody get
00:14:33.58\00:14:35.85
involved in this
process. Not even God.
00:14:36.18\00:14:37.26
Not even God and we
are very prone to exclude
00:14:37.52\00:14:39.77
him from. And surely
God just can't understand
00:14:40.09\00:14:42.33
my emotions.
That's right. Obviously.
00:14:42.52\00:14:44.51
That's right. You
know God is going to deny
00:14:44.63\00:14:46.99
me of something
that I really do like.
00:14:47.11\00:14:49.47
You know God created
me and he created all
00:14:49.50\00:14:51.11
my complex emotions.
And certainly he can't
00:14:51.30\00:14:53.43
understand. We
need to recognize that.
00:14:53.63\00:14:54.64
The third principle
that I wanna bring out is
00:14:55.67\00:14:58.27
something that's
implicit here. The servant is
00:14:58.33\00:15:02.54
going to find a wife for
Isaac, but he is doing it
00:15:02.70\00:15:06.95
at Abraham's bidding.
And evidently Isaac is
00:15:07.10\00:15:11.52
cooperating with
the program. Obviously.
00:15:11.85\00:15:13.78
Agape respects
authority. This is something we
00:15:14.17\00:15:18.31
have totally lost sight of. Yes.
00:15:18.36\00:15:20.37
And I would like to
communicate to the young
00:15:21.14\00:15:22.71
people that are
listening, take people
00:15:22.89\00:15:25.09
into your confidence.
People you can respect,
00:15:25.22\00:15:27.20
people that you
know are Godly people and
00:15:28.19\00:15:30.20
respect their authority,
ask for their opinion.
00:15:30.48\00:15:33.53
And trust it. That's right,
00:15:33.99\00:15:35.96
ask for their opinion
and get people involved
00:15:36.24\00:15:38.84
especially authority
figures. Now it may not
00:15:39.07\00:15:41.22
always be a
parent. It may have to be a
00:15:41.34\00:15:44.75
guardian. It may
have to be a spiritual
00:15:44.90\00:15:46.63
guardian or
elder pastor. Somebody
00:15:46.90\00:15:47.87
that I would say an
experienced Christian
00:15:47.88\00:15:51.12
person. Not just
a Christian, but an
00:15:51.57\00:15:53.22
experienced
Christian person. Because many
00:15:53.61\00:15:55.20
Christians they don't
understand this subject.
00:15:55.49\00:15:56.97
That's right. It
needs to be somebody who
00:15:57.50\00:15:58.47
understands this
subject to guide you rightly.
00:15:58.70\00:16:00.76
In regards to teachers.
Yeah. And in regards to
00:16:00.99\00:16:03.06
your parents even if
they are not believers they
00:16:03.09\00:16:05.42
may have some wisdom
to offer you anyway so
00:16:05.63\00:16:07.48
by all means ask
their opinion, let me just
00:16:07.59\00:16:09.09
share something
that happened with my
00:16:09.25\00:16:10.92
courtship with
my husband. He was
00:16:10.95\00:16:11.92
determined to do it
by the book and you have
00:16:12.05\00:16:14.56
to realize I wasn't a
Christian growing up and
00:16:14.62\00:16:16.46
I was dating from
sixth grade on. I went
00:16:16.66\00:16:19.34
studying in sixth
grade, I was 11 years old.
00:16:19.61\00:16:21.60
So, I had always
done exactly what I wanted
00:16:22.02\00:16:24.25
to do. And my
husband comes along and he
00:16:24.28\00:16:27.37
wants to court me,
I'm 21 years old. And he
00:16:27.57\00:16:30.31
calls my mother and
says can I have a courtship
00:16:30.55\00:16:32.85
with your daughter.
And my mother was just
00:16:32.99\00:16:34.75
like why he is
asking me this, she has been
00:16:34.84\00:16:37.51
doing whatever she
wanted since she was 11
00:16:37.66\00:16:39.51
years old and now
she's 21 and he asked me if
00:16:39.64\00:16:41.41
he can have a
courtship with her. She doesn't
00:16:41.57\00:16:43.24
even know what a
courtship is you know.
00:16:43.27\00:16:44.81
So, sometimes it's
difficult to fit your
00:16:45.68\00:16:48.29
parent into the
Abraham paradigm you know,
00:16:48.51\00:16:51.16
right. But by all
means asked their opinion
00:16:51.19\00:16:53.37
about this person you
are considering and do
00:16:53.45\00:16:55.37
take spiritual authorities
into your confidence.
00:16:55.56\00:16:58.63
Right. I would like
to just say one sentence
00:16:58.66\00:17:00.03
about our life and
recently Sarah has been
00:17:00.15\00:17:03.25
having some letter
writing going on and
00:17:04.12\00:17:08.23
learning about a
person in relationship and it
00:17:08.47\00:17:10.64
has been amazing
how she would ask us our
00:17:10.72\00:17:15.06
advice and we love it,
we love it. And because
00:17:15.28\00:17:18.26
she is asking our
advice we tend to want to
00:17:18.29\00:17:21.81
bring her out and
say, what do you think is
00:17:22.25\00:17:24.83
best. Instead of
just telling her,
00:17:25.11\00:17:26.80
that's right, and, she
is open, but she is open
00:17:26.97\00:17:29.93
to us. So, I know that
she is kind of in a safe
00:17:30.07\00:17:32.19
thought you know
way of emotions there.
00:17:32.47\00:17:34.68
Alright, the next part
of the story is in verse 10
00:17:35.38\00:17:38.11
it says the servant
took ten camels from the
00:17:38.24\00:17:40.44
camels of his master,
set out with a variety
00:17:40.53\00:17:43.37
of good things. He
took ten camels full of good
00:17:43.40\00:17:47.64
things, the next
principle is that Agape
00:17:47.90\00:17:50.23
provides for the
future. Oh! There is a lost
00:17:50.59\00:17:53.13
one too. That's
right, I was talking, that's
00:17:53.25\00:17:55.47
coming in today,
couple of weeks ago to a man
00:17:55.50\00:17:57.09
who is a very
generous man, he does a lot of
00:17:57.31\00:17:59.32
ministry to youth
and he said one of these
00:17:59.58\00:18:00.79
young people approached him and
00:18:00.98\00:18:01.95
hey I need $300 to
buy a weeding ring,
00:18:02.10\00:18:03.86
I wanna get married
and the man who would
00:18:04.19\00:18:05.95
normally would be
willing to share of his money
00:18:06.20\00:18:08.49
and whatever, he said
no. If you can't even buy
00:18:08.54\00:18:11.82
a wedding band, this
is a fairly an expensive
00:18:11.85\00:18:15.08
piece of jewelery, if
you can't buy that then you
00:18:15.48\00:18:17.57
have no right
getting married. Right.
00:18:17.60\00:18:19.02
We need to provide
for the future and be
00:18:19.30\00:18:20.96
practical. The story
goes on and it talks about
00:18:21.29\00:18:24.99
the servant getting
to a city called Nahor.
00:18:25.06\00:18:29.08
And it says he made
the camels kneel down
00:18:29.42\00:18:31.06
outside the city which
is in Mesopotamia, yes,
00:18:31.35\00:18:33.38
by the well of water
at evening time, the time
00:18:34.00\00:18:36.30
when women go out to
draw water. And he said,
00:18:36.48\00:18:37.96
"O Lord God of
my master Abraham,
00:18:38.28\00:18:39.88
please grant me
success today, and show loving
00:18:40.30\00:18:43.21
kindness to my
master Abraham." That's the
00:18:43.56\00:18:45.46
fifth principle I
wanna bring out, Agape thinks
00:18:45.96\00:18:48.82
of everyone involved.
He was praying for the
00:18:48.94\00:18:51.77
happiness of
Abraham, we typically think of
00:18:51.97\00:18:54.34
marriage and the
choice of a marriage partner
00:18:54.62\00:18:56.92
only in regards to the
happiness of the people
00:18:57.33\00:18:58.85
getting married. Right.
But, in fact that person
00:18:58.98\00:19:01.17
will impact, your
brothers, your sisters,
00:19:01.42\00:19:04.00
your friends, your
parents, mother, father,
00:19:04.03\00:19:05.37
yes. Right. Think
about everybody involved.
00:19:05.64\00:19:08.24
You know the Jewish
mind was more capable
00:19:08.35\00:19:10.50
and more prone to
accept the corporate nature
00:19:10.93\00:19:14.00
of man. They saw
themselves as part of
00:19:14.06\00:19:16.32
a web of humanity.
Right. In western culture
00:19:16.57\00:19:18.64
today we have this
rugged individualist attitude
00:19:18.81\00:19:21.31
and we've lost sight
of the cooperativeness of
00:19:21.60\00:19:24.07
human nature. That
we are accountable to
00:19:24.22\00:19:26.35
others. That we
are accountable to one
00:19:26.80\00:19:27.77
another and we
affect one another.
00:19:27.78\00:19:28.75
There is a ripple
effect that goes out from each
00:19:28.76\00:19:29.81
one of us. Okay, so
in verse 13, the servant
00:19:30.07\00:19:37.56
prays "Behold I'm
standing by the spring
00:19:37.77\00:19:40.05
and the daughters of
the men of the city are
00:19:40.34\00:19:41.91
coming out to draw
water. Now may it be
00:19:42.07\00:19:44.22
that the girl to whom
I say, Please let down
00:19:44.43\00:19:46.17
your jar so that I
may drink, and who answers
00:19:46.33\00:19:48.81
drink, and I'll
water your camels also may
00:19:48.90\00:19:51.32
she be the one, whom
thou has appointed for
00:19:51.56\00:19:53.99
my thy servant Isaac.
And by this I shall know
00:19:54.22\00:19:57.34
that thou has shown
love and kindness to my
00:19:57.43\00:19:59.05
master." In other
words he prayed, I will ask a
00:19:59.32\00:20:02.00
girl for water and
she will offer water to my
00:20:02.28\00:20:05.09
camels as well and
by that I will know that
00:20:05.28\00:20:07.38
she is the one you
have chosen. Right,
00:20:07.54\00:20:08.99
now I wanna look
for moment at what he
00:20:09.30\00:20:11.41
prayed, he could
have prayed send me
00:20:11.87\00:20:13.58
a blonde, he could
have said make sure she is
00:20:13.62\00:20:16.70
gorgeous. But, he
prayed about a quality of
00:20:16.95\00:20:19.80
character and from
that I wanna extract the
00:20:19.98\00:20:21.79
sixth principle
which is Agape is more
00:20:22.06\00:20:24.57
concerned with the
inside than the outside.
00:20:24.81\00:20:27.66
You know I think
personal appearance is
00:20:28.87\00:20:31.04
important, yes, and I
think people need to be
00:20:31.24\00:20:33.02
attracted to one
another, but I think we put too
00:20:33.25\00:20:36.23
much emphasis on it.
We have a very looksist
00:20:36.26\00:20:38.45
culture and a very
looksist mindset. I was
00:20:38.77\00:20:40.61
sharing the story
with my daughter she got
00:20:40.75\00:20:43.21
all squirmy and I said
what's the matter honey
00:20:43.35\00:20:45.30
and she said, well you
know I don't want God to
00:20:45.48\00:20:48.33
pick for me, pick my
husband for me. She is
00:20:48.45\00:20:50.05
like 7 seven years
old. And I said well why not
00:20:50.08\00:20:52.85
she said what if he is
ugly, and I said why do
00:20:53.07\00:20:55.74
you think he will be
ugly God cares if you feel
00:20:55.77\00:20:58.02
attracted to him or
not she is, she said I just
00:20:58.44\00:21:00.21
don't think that
Isaac was good looking.
00:21:00.24\00:21:02.16
And I said well why
do you not think that,
00:21:02.86\00:21:04.96
she says Rebecca was
beautiful she says yeah
00:21:05.10\00:21:06.45
but not Isaac you
know. And I said why do you
00:21:06.48\00:21:08.90
think that. It turned
out with the end of the story
00:21:09.05\00:21:11.03
she sees Isaac at a
distance, she asked the
00:21:11.37\00:21:13.23
servant who is that he
says its Isaac you know,
00:21:13.44\00:21:15.53
she knows that this is
one she is gonna marry,
00:21:15.86\00:21:17.15
she jumps off her
camel and it says she puts
00:21:17.31\00:21:19.33
her veil over her, she
covers her face with her
00:21:19.44\00:21:21.48
veil and I just read
she covers her face and so
00:21:21.76\00:21:23.80
Allison thought
that she was going, Oh!
00:21:24.06\00:21:26.52
No he is so ugly
please, you know so I had to
00:21:26.96\00:21:29.83
explain her the
custom of veiling the face.
00:21:30.11\00:21:32.18
But that is a real
concern for people.
00:21:33.44\00:21:34.79
Will I be physically
attracted, if I let God
00:21:35.01\00:21:36.79
for me. That's right.
I don't think we have to
00:21:36.82\00:21:38.35
worry about that. I
think you're correct,
00:21:38.62\00:21:39.83
God cares about
little details like that.
00:21:39.86\00:21:42.22
But, we need to
be concerned about
00:21:42.41\00:21:43.48
character. Right.
Because character is what
00:21:43.65\00:21:45.13
makes or breaks the
relationship in the long
00:21:45.16\00:21:46.85
run. So, the story
goes on, and his prayer was
00:21:46.88\00:21:52.54
miraculously
answered she does exactly what
00:21:52.72\00:21:54.75
he prays then she,
then he finds out the she is
00:21:54.91\00:21:57.40
a relative of
Abraham and he falls down and
00:21:57.43\00:21:59.64
worships the Lord, he
ends up at the house to
00:21:59.86\00:22:02.66
have dinner and he
spills out his whole story
00:22:02.69\00:22:05.31
and they see the hand
of God in it and the next
00:22:05.45\00:22:07.12
morning the servant
wants to go back with
00:22:07.47\00:22:08.51
the girl and the
relatives say whoa! Wait a
00:22:08.54\00:22:10.76
minute you know we
want her here for 10 days
00:22:10.79\00:22:12.71
you know, we are not
quite ready for this,
00:22:12.77\00:22:14.65
but then they
say something really
00:22:15.62\00:22:17.08
interesting and I
wanna look at that.
00:22:17.11\00:22:19.12
It says verse 56 he
said to them, Oh! No I'm
00:22:20.84\00:22:24.91
sorry. In verse 57,
We will call the girl and
00:22:25.13\00:22:28.19
consult her
wishes. The last principle,
00:22:28.25\00:22:31.72
I wanna bring out is
that Agape is always a
00:22:31.86\00:22:35.13
choice. Even in this
custom of prearranged
00:22:35.16\00:22:37.83
marriages which is no
longer something we do.
00:22:37.99\00:22:40.03
In God's prearranged marriages.
00:22:40.11\00:22:41.61
In God's
prearranged marriages there was
00:22:41.64\00:22:42.92
always a choice. The
person could say yeah
00:22:43.04\00:22:47.03
or nay. Absolutely.
And the point is that you
00:22:47.06\00:22:49.06
cannot force a person
to love. You can't like
00:22:49.40\00:22:52.06
what if you were to
take a gun to his head and
00:22:52.26\00:22:54.72
say now love me. You
know it wouldn't work,
00:22:54.88\00:22:56.76
you cannot force
love, it is a choice.
00:22:57.15\00:22:59.26
And so that's the
beautiful story of Isaac
00:23:00.44\00:23:01.98
and Rebecca, and those
were the principles that
00:23:02.23\00:23:04.48
the Lord is
trying to share with us.
00:23:04.59\00:23:06.26
Proper courtship. And betrothal.
00:23:06.62\00:23:08.21
That's right. You
know I bring that word in,
00:23:09.26\00:23:10.51
I don't know we
haven't use that word at all.
00:23:10.73\00:23:12.32
So, what does
that mean? Betrothal.
00:23:12.52\00:23:13.64
Betrothing someone
who was it, Mary was
00:23:13.83\00:23:17.90
Betrothed to Joseph.
That's right, they were.
00:23:18.08\00:23:19.69
Promise contracted.
It was contracted or
00:23:19.86\00:23:20.83
promise contracted
or promised already.
00:23:21.02\00:23:22.09
They were promised
and seen were maybe
00:23:22.42\00:23:24.74
I'm wrong but wasn't
she already seen as his
00:23:24.93\00:23:28.94
wife, and as
married. As I understand it
00:23:29.12\00:23:31.38
typically a man would
contract with a woman,
00:23:31.54\00:23:33.52
she would be asked
permission, he would
00:23:33.82\00:23:34.79
contract with the
father and then if girl agreed
00:23:34.80\00:23:36.64
the contract would be
sealed and he would leave
00:23:36.93\00:23:38.93
for a year and build
a house and that's the
00:23:39.18\00:23:42.23
custom on which this
passage of scripture is
00:23:42.44\00:23:44.69
based where Jesus says
I go to prepare a place
00:23:44.90\00:23:46.91
for you and I will
come again and receive you
00:23:46.94\00:23:48.54
to me. Isn't that
beautiful? Yes it is.
00:23:48.57\00:23:50.15
I will receive you
unto myself, that was the
00:23:50.64\00:23:52.30
Betrothal. Oh! I
like that. I do too.
00:23:52.40\00:23:54.83
It kind of makes my heart go.
00:23:54.97\00:23:55.94
Maybe women like it
more. Women like houses you
00:23:56.02\00:23:59.78
know. Well there's,
well its Agape is always
00:23:59.81\00:24:05.77
a choice now, you've
left us with that and
00:24:05.80\00:24:07.75
that's good and all
of these principles and I
00:24:07.78\00:24:09.65
think people would
have probably really
00:24:09.83\00:24:11.69
enjoyed this story, I
have anyway and saying
00:24:11.94\00:24:14.22
these principles of
courtship. And there is a
00:24:14.44\00:24:17.63
movement going on in
this today. Where people
00:24:17.67\00:24:20.55
are moving back,
families, parents and
00:24:20.58\00:24:23.52
not and singles are
seeing the necessity
00:24:23.91\00:24:26.69
to move to this way
of finding a companion
00:24:27.22\00:24:30.48
and having love in
their home, but we need to
00:24:30.73\00:24:33.76
get John and
Karen's response now.
00:24:33.93\00:24:35.78
We have a little
response from you guys,
00:24:36.08\00:24:37.98
before we close. Oh! Definitely,
00:24:38.22\00:24:39.67
brings to mind and
it's just amazing to me how
00:24:41.19\00:24:43.11
even through what we;
what we were raised in,
00:24:43.95\00:24:47.35
and everything we
watched and saw and the
00:24:47.66\00:24:50.68
things we saw
in our family life,
00:24:50.71\00:24:52.60
God can bring us
out of that. Amen.
00:24:53.48\00:24:55.15
God brought us together
in fault, yet brought us
00:24:55.43\00:24:59.29
out of that together
and we are learning and it's
00:24:59.37\00:25:03.40
just amazing. What
do you think of God's
00:25:03.43\00:25:04.40
Agape love? It's more
than I ever at all you
00:25:04.43\00:25:07.67
know I'm feeling
tearful, it's more than I ever
00:25:07.70\00:25:10.52
imagined, right, and
all this time I had no idea
00:25:10.90\00:25:13.60
that he loved me so
much that he was willing to
00:25:14.04\00:25:16.17
allow me to feel
this kind of love. Right.
00:25:16.30\00:25:18.00
And he is willing to
show me the tools and it
00:25:18.14\00:25:21.45
just, it helps me to
realize that, you know
00:25:21.48\00:25:24.12
there is a lot
more we have to learn.
00:25:24.15\00:25:25.44
There is a lot
more waiting for you.
00:25:26.55\00:25:28.24
Right. Right.
How about you John?
00:25:28.38\00:25:29.98
Well, I can realize
in the beginning when we
00:25:31.82\00:25:34.71
first started our
relationship we had more
00:25:35.46\00:25:38.74
of the Eros love
and we had none of these
00:25:38.80\00:25:42.81
Agape principles.
Right. And since we have
00:25:43.01\00:25:46.88
been studying with
you and Tom, we've learned
00:25:46.92\00:25:49.63
you know more of
these Agape principles,
00:25:50.26\00:25:52.82
but one thing that
Jennifer said that really
00:25:53.06\00:25:55.06
struck in my mind was
Agape it puts God first.
00:25:55.87\00:25:59.45
Amen. And that's you
know I think that's the
00:25:59.83\00:26:02.44
most important
thing. That's beautiful.
00:26:02.52\00:26:04.11
And that's one thing
that I can say for myself that
00:26:04.24\00:26:06.43
that I really needed
to work on because I've,
00:26:07.84\00:26:09.93
I was always putting
everything else first.
00:26:10.61\00:26:12.19
You know I had all
of these other Agape
00:26:12.86\00:26:15.13
principles that I
was learning. Yes.
00:26:15.31\00:26:17.27
I was now
putting God first. Amen.
00:26:18.37\00:26:20.87
You for you to
recognize that I can see you're
00:26:21.85\00:26:24.08
on the road to healing, Amen.
00:26:24.35\00:26:25.86
And I would like to
say something in closing
00:26:26.09\00:26:27.43
to those that recognize
that they did not follow
00:26:27.56\00:26:30.42
God's plan. Right.
Sometimes looking at
00:26:30.60\00:26:33.11
courtship and looking
at the high idea that God
00:26:33.21\00:26:35.37
has for us, actually
provokes a response in
00:26:35.48\00:26:37.74
some people of defeat,
because I already blew it
00:26:37.85\00:26:40.86
and they even feel
sometimes that their
00:26:40.98\00:26:42.80
marriage is
cursed, and I just wanna
00:26:42.99\00:26:44.90
encourage those
people that are out there,
00:26:45.05\00:26:46.64
God is able to heal, he
is able to pick up where
00:26:47.25\00:26:49.84
you left off, God is
in the business of taking
00:26:49.94\00:26:52.64
broken pieces, just
like the show you and I
00:26:53.25\00:26:55.48
wanna spend my life
mending broken people.
00:26:55.60\00:26:57.43
God lives to mend
broken people and if
00:26:57.82\00:26:59.84
you're willing he
will make a monument of his
00:26:59.99\00:27:02.68
Agape out of your
marriage, no matter of
00:27:02.86\00:27:04.50
what your past is
and I think of Mary
00:27:04.68\00:27:06.81
Magdalene when I think
of this because she was
00:27:06.98\00:27:09.41
someone who knew
better and yet fell into
00:27:09.44\00:27:11.70
a lifestyle that was
totally opposed to God's
00:27:11.98\00:27:13.93
plan for her life.
Right. And yet she was the one
00:27:14.22\00:27:17.55
disciple that Jesus
commended more than any
00:27:17.86\00:27:20.45
other disciple not
because of her mistakes
00:27:20.56\00:27:22.36
but because of her faith. Right.
00:27:22.83\00:27:24.31
He said whatever
this Gospel is preached,
00:27:24.94\00:27:26.72
tell what she's done,
he said nothing of that
00:27:27.01\00:27:28.79
nature to any of the
other disciples, but he
00:27:29.06\00:27:33.43
said it of her
because of her faith. Amen.
00:27:33.52\00:27:35.63
Through faith God can
restore everything we've
00:27:35.66\00:27:38.10
lost through sin.
Oh! I believe it, Amen,
00:27:38.16\00:27:41.25
you know and he wants
us to be in heaven with
00:27:41.53\00:27:43.23
him don't you know
that. Yes. I want to
00:27:43.26\00:27:45.64
thank you
Jennifer for being with us,
00:27:45.87\00:27:47.26
it's been exciting.
And I'm glad that John
00:27:47.36\00:27:49.26
and Karen has been with us.
00:27:49.29\00:27:50.26
Thank you Kathy. And
I thank you for being
00:27:50.28\00:27:52.36
with us. May you
find true Godly Agape
00:27:52.47\00:27:55.43
love in your
home. And join us again
00:27:55.61\00:27:57.64
on Thinking about Home.
00:27:57.82\00:27:58.79