Hi, I'm Kathy Mathews
and I want to welcome you
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to Thinking about
Home. Today we're going to be
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discussing some
things that might a little
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more controversial,
but I think you're going
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to glean a lot
of benefits from it.
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And we're going to
have a few future programs
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that will be continuing
to deal with the subjects
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that we're going to
be talking about today,
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we're going to be starting.
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we're going to be starting.
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And it's going to
be about the subject
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of love in these last days.
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And I know that in our home life
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that you may have some
skeletons in your closet,
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some of you may
have and then some of you
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maybe young enough
not to have any past that
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has caused you pains
and hurts and that I thank
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God for and I hope that
our program will be such
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that can prevent you
from having relationships
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that will cause you a
tremendous amount of pain in
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your life and then
we'll be able to give you the
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information that
you need to hang to
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between you and God
and have a relationship
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that God can be very
happy with and you can be very
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happy with. We're going to have
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Jennifer Schwirzer
for a guest, she is from
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Connecticut and she
is studying for a degree
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and she has as some
information about love
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and how people think about love
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today and the difference
between what people think
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about love and what the
Bible teaches about love
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and we're also going to
have a couple of more guests.
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And I'm going to
introduce them to you now.
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Jennifer, I'm glad you are here.
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Hi, glad to be here. And we have
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a young couple this
year with us as well
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and that's John
and Karen Tsigonoff,
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now that's an interesting name.
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I think it has a
little Russian background
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doesn't it? Yeah.
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But you weren't
born in Russia were you?
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No. No, and I want to explain
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to you John and Karen
have come to be with us today
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because my
husband Tom and I have,
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we met them about a year ago
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and some months
after that John and Karen
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showed an interest
in some Bible studies
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and of course that
through all our hearts,
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so we've tried to
take it on tenderly
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and they have come
along with beautiful,
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beautiful and swift
desires to follow the Lord
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and I just want to
help the viewers to realize
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that John and Karen
are still studying and they
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and they are here
probably mostly as listeners
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today and learners
and they'll be with us
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in a few other
programs and they'll still be
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here learning because
they are going to share
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just a little bit
of their testimony
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with you and
you'll be understanding
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more about their lives.
But we want to start out
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with Jennifer and the
questions that we're gonna
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start with are
why do so many people
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make mistakes in the love area?
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In love area.
Love is a basic need
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and the more I read
and study the subject
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the more I come to
the conclusion that people
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actually need love to
survive usually we think
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of people needing food,
water, shelter to survive.
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I'm convinced
that people need love
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to physically thrive
and I base that on a couple
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different things
one was an experience
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that a South
American orphanage had.
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They had 97 infants,
the infants we are given
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excellent care in every
way, it was a clean place,
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they were given good
food, good nutritious food,
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but the staff was so hurried
that they didn't have time
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to hold the children
and nurture the children
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the way a mother
would nurture a baby.
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Hmm. Hmm. And one by
one the infants began
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to exhibit symptoms of
disease starting a few months
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into this period of
time and ultimately over the
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next several years 76
of the original 97 orphans
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died of seemingly no cause.
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Now since that experience
they've come up with the term
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for the condition
and the term is marasmus
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and it just
literally means wasting away.
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Really? And you
remember the orphans of Romania.
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Yes. Of recent
years many Americans
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adopted those orphans
and I was just reading
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yesterday about
some experiences some of
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those parents had. They
started to see behavior,
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behavioral and emotional
problems in these orphans
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and they took them
into to have them looked out
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and I'll read this from
the studied that I was reading
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from, it says
radiological imaging was taken
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of their children's
brains. The images revealed
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that there were areas
of the brain that were
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quite literally black
holes or areas of brain tissue
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that did not
receive adequate stimulation
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and simply died. Oh.
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Isn't that awesome? Ah! Yes.
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They their discovered
later what it was from.
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That's right, I read
from another magazine
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that was put up by
folks of the family that
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when children are
neglected or abused in infancy
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they put out stress
hormones and the stress hormones
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actually have the
effect of keeping the brain
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developing properly.
Hmm. So, children that are not
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loved literally come into
adulthood brain damaged. Hmm.
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So we need love to
survive, a lack of love
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can even lead t
physical death. Hmm.
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Now the means where
by we get love shifts
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as we grow from physical touch
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to verbal communication.
I think our primary avenue
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of receiving love is
verbal, the older we get
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although I do believe in
touch even into adulthood.
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Yeah. And you're
very huggy person
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and I'm not so
that's good for me,
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but we need to have
communications as we mature.
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And this isn't going on either.
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So older children are
not getting the nurture
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they need in the area
of communication. Right.
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There is mass
communication break down. Right.
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In the home. Let's take
a look at some statistics
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having to do with this
communication break down.
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Okay. The average mother talks
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seven minutes
per day to her teen
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while the average father
talks to them five minutes
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each day. But the
average teenager watches four
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and a half hours of
television everyday.
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This means that the
average more input from the TV
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than from their parents. I
got that from a book called
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Reviving Ophelia by an
author named Mary Pipher. Hmm.
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Isn't that
shocking! It is shocking
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and it's pitiful. I
have to put my comments
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there because isn't
the family really designed
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to meet the social
needs? That's right
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and if those needs are not met,
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peoples' love cup so
to speak is not filled,
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they experience a
lack of development
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and they come into adulthood
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broken empty people.
Not just social needs
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but you need communication
needs is probably what
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I should have said
but social as well.
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That's right, that's
right and you know this very
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fact is echoed in the
Bible. Let's look at the graphic
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from Matthew 24, "and Jesus said
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and because
lawlessness is increased,
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most people's
love will grow cold."
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Because of the break
down of communication,
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because of abuse in the
home, because of neglect
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in the home we
see people incapable
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of even natural affection. Hmm.
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The human race is
just going downhill. Hmm.
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Big time with every generation.
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But there is a
scripture that talks about
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that the Lord told us about
are the affections would be
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unseemly or the natural
affections would not be there.
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That's right. I think
in Matthew. That's right.
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Brother would
betray brother. Yes.
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Children will betray parents.
We are seeing it happen.
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And we are seeing it
happen, that's right.
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Things are pretty grim.
Hmm. So what's the result?
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Well, the
result is lot of damage
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but there is also hope. Amen.
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And God can through
his grace restore people,
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he can restore his image in man
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and he can also
restore relationships,
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because you
can't have a functional
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healthy relationship
that's based on love
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and communication
when the people in
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the relationship are
broken dysfunctional people.
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Right. So God
restores the individuals
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and he also restores
the relationships. Amen.
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And I think that's
probably what John and
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Karen are discovering.
Might be too, might be too.
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And with some struggle
but are discovering it.
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You know the whole
movement of true love
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waits is something
that, it's going on across
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the nation
maybe around the world
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and we're going to be
going into more of the idea
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of true love waits
so that you don't have
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such broken lives
and relationships.
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God has a wonderful plan for us
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and if we will just
come to him and submit our
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hearts to him we're
going to be able to find
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much more
happiness than any other way,
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any place that we
could possibly search for it.
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God has the way
an John and Karen are
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discovering some of this. Hmm.
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Did you want to allow
them to share with, Yeah
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me Jennifer, that's
perfect. Do you think that's
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probably be a
good time for this?
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Tell us how you know you
came into your relationship.
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Maybe a little
testimony. Without the tools
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that you needed but
that the Lord is giving you
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those tools and
he is restoring you.
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Amen, amen.
Growing up and I m sure
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my husband John
can attest to this, we,
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I had for myself I had
a very, very dysfunctional
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upbringing. I never
got the chance to really
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truly see what
true love was so I have
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this
misconstrued idea of my life.
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Right. And in seeking
love outside of my parents
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I always came
across relationships
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that were very damaging.Yes.
And then we're more
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selfish and emotion
based then God based
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then you know what the
Bible has to say. Right.
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Did you have some
dysfunction in your family?
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This, the things that
you saw and heard that
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were causing you to
develop the wrong idea
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of what love could possibly be.
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Well, a lot, right, a
lot of emotional abuse,
00:10:41.06\00:10:42.96
fathers that were you
know drinking and alcoholism.
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And drugs too. And drugs
too drugs also yes ma'am.
00:10:48.12\00:10:51.13
And some of that
and you were exposed to
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that at a young age. Yes,
and now we're going to turn
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to you John I want to hear
a little bit your testimony
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because I know that
yours is somewhat similar to
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Karen's there
are some similarities
00:11:01.24\00:11:03.43
but there is lot
of differences too.
00:11:03.46\00:11:04.86
Didn't you live in a
home with your grandmother?
00:11:04.89\00:11:08.21
Yes, I did I was pretty
much. What was that like?
00:11:08.24\00:11:11.87
Well, I was always
pretty much pond off
00:11:11.90\00:11:16.12
on my grandmother
for one reason or another
00:11:16.15\00:11:20.28
and growing up you know
being raised by grandmother
00:11:20.31\00:11:25.80
there was resentment
in the home from my uncles
00:11:28.09\00:11:30.92
and my grandfather. Right.
And there is concern arguing
00:11:30.95\00:11:33.94
and fighting. Right.
And you observed that a lot.
00:11:33.97\00:11:36.93
Yeah and she also
had to play a mother
00:11:36.96\00:11:41.11
and a father figure. To
you. Kind of yeah. Right.
00:11:41.14\00:11:45.02
Yeah, it wasn't the, she
did the best that she could.
00:11:45.05\00:11:47.51
You have a lot of
special feelings toward
00:11:47.54\00:11:49.53
your grandmother
don't you? Yes I do,
00:11:49.56\00:11:50.99
I've been with her for
most my life and. Yeah.
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You know it's not that way
you know now the as far as.
00:11:53.29\00:11:58.24
You mean the relationships
between your father,
00:11:58.27\00:11:59.67
I mean between your
uncles and so forth,
00:11:59.70\00:12:01.52
various other ones.
Between yeah, between my family,
00:12:01.55\00:12:02.76
I just, you know even
though it's not that way
00:12:02.79\00:12:04.56
now during that period
of time as I saw in that.
00:12:04.59\00:12:07.18
Hmm. It was. You
mean things are better?
00:12:07.21\00:12:09.42
Yeah I've had, I'd say within
the past five or six years
00:12:09.45\00:12:13.34
I've been able to establish
a relationship with them.
00:12:13.37\00:12:16.31
Amen. And since
you've been studying
00:12:16.34\00:12:18.97
have you established a
little bit more relationship,
00:12:19.00\00:12:21.15
has there been some
reconciliations with a sister
00:12:21.18\00:12:23.57
or someone? Oh,
yes it has different,
00:12:23.60\00:12:28.21
what I felt that I've
made piece with my family
00:12:29.43\00:12:32.55
you know different
people in my family. Right.
00:12:32.58\00:12:35.95
Because like I said
growing up there was constant
00:12:36.33\00:12:40.04
arguing and fighting. Right.
00:12:40.07\00:12:41.08
And there wasn't, there
wasn't a whole lot of love
00:12:41.11\00:12:43.96
there. Hmm. Go ahead.
00:12:43.99\00:12:46.72
So just in this, like
Karen was saying you know, yeah.
00:12:46.75\00:12:53.51
About getting a
misconstrued idea
00:12:53.54\00:12:56.41
of what God's love
was. Yes. There is many,
00:12:56.44\00:13:00.13
many misconceptions
also of what I thought that I
00:13:00.16\00:13:02.46
was you know had
the foundation from.
00:13:02.49\00:13:05.63
From your grandmother.
Yeah, from having that
00:13:05.66\00:13:07.62
upbringing. Great. We
got to put a raw role in
00:13:07.65\00:13:11.01
for grandma, you
know. Yeah. Who keep,
00:13:11.04\00:13:15.51
wanting to put
the love of God before
00:13:15.54\00:13:18.33
their young ones, you
know and probably doesn't talk
00:13:18.36\00:13:21.54
about the grandmothers of
Israel or the mothers of Israel
00:13:21.57\00:13:24.52
and from generation to
generation passing down
00:13:24.55\00:13:27.26
what is it that God
would have them to do.
00:13:27.29\00:13:28.85
So we thank God that
you had that grandmother
00:13:28.88\00:13:31.18
in your life. Yeah.
Yeah. And praise God we've both
00:13:31.21\00:13:34.42
had some what of
a foundation, I even
00:13:34.45\00:13:37.39
with the abuse
growing I've had a foundation
00:13:37.42\00:13:39.42
we've have bible
studies and things with my
00:13:39.45\00:13:41.72
uncles and things so
that. So you knew that was a God
00:13:41.75\00:13:44.29
and you knew that there
was a Son of Jesus Christ
00:13:44.32\00:13:46.40
and that he was our
savior. Right, right
00:13:46.43\00:13:47.91
right and that laid
the foundation, so when we
00:13:47.94\00:13:50.72
started studying
with you and your husband,
00:13:50.75\00:13:52.70
we just were constantly
convicted by the actions
00:13:52.73\00:13:58.94
that we had an old
relationship, we got married
00:13:58.97\00:14:01.04
and we were faulty and
we started to study with you
00:14:01.07\00:14:04.87
and then as the months went
by we would read certain text
00:14:04.90\00:14:08.66
that the text out of Philippians
00:14:08.69\00:14:10.11
in chapter 4 verse 8.
This had a profound effect
00:14:10.14\00:14:13.33
on you I think. Yes,
yes, I read this text
00:14:13.36\00:14:15.48
it as if I may I
read it? Yes, go ahead.
00:14:15.51\00:14:18.39
Finally Brethren
whatsoever things are true,
00:14:18.42\00:14:21.98
whatsoever things are honest,
00:14:22.01\00:14:24.28
whatsoever things are just,
00:14:24.31\00:14:26.49
whatsoever things are pure,
00:14:26.52\00:14:27.98
whatsoever things are lovely,
00:14:28.01\00:14:30.22
whatsoever
things have good report,
00:14:30.25\00:14:32.64
if there be any
virtue, if there be any praise
00:14:32.67\00:14:36.22
think on these things
and I became convicted
00:14:36.25\00:14:40.02
by the Holy Spirit. Yes.
And I thought this is not right.
00:14:40.05\00:14:43.11
Yes. This conception I
have of love is not true
00:14:43.14\00:14:46.41
and I began to search.
We both began to search.
00:14:46.44\00:14:50.64
Yes. And we
wanted to find the truth
00:14:50.67\00:14:53.59
we knew that what
we, the idea we had
00:14:53.62\00:14:55.66
was not the true idea
of what God would want us
00:14:55.69\00:14:58.23
to do. And it's
incredible because Tom and I
00:14:58.26\00:15:01.23
have had to be
very careful because
00:15:01.26\00:15:03.04
we don't want
you though we watch.
00:15:03.07\00:15:06.67
You watch our lives like
people watch Paul's life.
00:15:06.70\00:15:11.05
We want to lead you
to Christ not to us.
00:15:11.08\00:15:14.03
Right. But there
are things in our lives
00:15:14.06\00:15:16.23
that had changed
and I think maybe those
00:15:16.26\00:15:20.26
were witnesses to John and Karen
00:15:20.29\00:15:22.22
and helped them to
want to make some changes
00:15:22.25\00:15:24.24
in their lives, though
the Lord is not finished
00:15:24.27\00:15:26.54
with us yet either. And
now Jennifer we need to move
00:15:26.57\00:15:29.83
back into the subject I
think. Subject matter yes.
00:15:29.86\00:15:32.25
I think Karen
and John would agree
00:15:32.28\00:15:34.87
with me that the
first step in making
00:15:34.90\00:15:36.79
any changes in our
relationships when we see
00:15:36.82\00:15:39.59
that there are
changes that need to be made
00:15:39.62\00:15:41.29
is to understand
what true love is.
00:15:41.32\00:15:44.21
Yes, right. Yes absolutely.
00:15:44.24\00:15:45.75
Yeah and sometimes we
do that by contrasting it
00:15:45.78\00:15:48.92
with what it isn't?
Yes. This is interesting
00:15:48.95\00:15:51.50
First Corinthians 13
which is the love chapter
00:15:51.53\00:15:53.81
of the New Testament
puts its descriptions
00:15:53.84\00:15:57.61
of love mostly in the negative,
00:15:57.64\00:16:00.79
there are 9 references to
love that are in the negative
00:16:00.82\00:16:03.48
and only 7 that
are in the positive.
00:16:03.51\00:16:05.22
Right. In other
words there are 9 that say
00:16:05.25\00:16:07.27
things like love
is not rude. Yes.
00:16:07.30\00:16:10.01
And there are
only 7 that say love
00:16:10.04\00:16:11.84
is patient and kind.
Yes. So God often describes to
00:16:11.87\00:16:15.56
us his love by telling
us what it's not. Right.
00:16:15.59\00:16:18.17
Its called comparison
in contrast and sometimes
00:16:18.20\00:16:21.14
the only way we can
figure out what it is,
00:16:21.17\00:16:22.14
is by looking in
our past and saying that
00:16:23.14\00:16:25.59
wasn't it. Am I right? Right.
00:16:25.62\00:16:27.64
So the first step in
making these changes that
00:16:27.67\00:16:29.94
we need to make in the
way we relate to one another
00:16:29.97\00:16:32.21
especially as pertains
to marriage and courtship
00:16:32.24\00:16:35.26
is to understand
what God's love is.
00:16:35.29\00:16:39.57
Yes. And of course
understand what it isn't.
00:16:39.60\00:16:42.05
Well in English
language we only have one word
00:16:42.08\00:16:43.99
to describe that. That's right
00:16:44.02\00:16:45.10
and that's the thing
I was going into next.
00:16:45.13\00:16:46.92
It's important for us
to expand our vocabulary,
00:16:46.95\00:16:50.14
you know there are
only, there is only one word
00:16:50.17\00:16:53.20
for love in English
language like you said,
00:16:53.23\00:16:54.80
but in Greek
there are four words.
00:16:54.83\00:16:57.31
Yes. And that's of
course the language that the
00:16:57.34\00:16:59.78
New Testament was written in.
00:16:59.81\00:17:01.62
Now you know we go to
church and we hear pastor
00:17:01.65\00:17:05.00
say God is love
and he is talking about
00:17:05.03\00:17:07.58
the pure Holy love of
God. Yes. Then the next day
00:17:07.61\00:17:11.24
we go to the
grocery store and we hear
00:17:11.27\00:17:13.21
baby I love you
booming over the loud speakers.
00:17:13.24\00:17:15.86
Yes. That's talking about
a totally different animal.
00:17:15.89\00:17:18.41
Yes. It's not talking
about the same kind of
00:17:18.44\00:17:20.81
love that the pastor
was talking about. Right.
00:17:20.84\00:17:22.78
And yet because
we use the same word
00:17:22.81\00:17:24.87
there is a certain confusion
that comes about. Right.
00:17:24.90\00:17:27.74
And that confusion
stems back to our limited
00:17:27.77\00:17:31.71
linguistics. Yes. So, let's
expand our love vocabulary.
00:17:31.74\00:17:35.35
Right. And look
at those four words
00:17:35.38\00:17:37.83
for love that we find
in the Greek language:
00:17:37.86\00:17:41.30
1. Storge -
which is familial love
00:17:42.10\00:17:45.29
such as the love for
a mother for a child.
00:17:45.32\00:17:47.15
Yes. 2, Phileo -
which is brotherly love
00:17:47.18\00:17:50.02
or friendship
oriented love. Yes, aha.
00:17:50.05\00:17:52.35
3. is Eros -
which is romantic love,
00:17:52.38\00:17:56.55
which is based on attraction
usually between the genders.
00:17:56.58\00:18:01.15
Yes. And the 4th
last but definitely
00:18:01.18\00:18:04.74
not least is Agape, which
is God's unconditional love.
00:18:04.77\00:18:07.87
Hmm. Now I think
John had a comment
00:18:07.90\00:18:11.77
on one of those particular ones.
00:18:11.80\00:18:14.12
Well I think I
believe that the, the Eros
00:18:14.15\00:18:17.02
kind of love is what
we based our relationship
00:18:17.05\00:18:21.58
on in the
beginning, so I think that
00:18:21.61\00:18:23.31
for you know why we had
such a tough time. Right.
00:18:23.34\00:18:27.02
And you know finding.
And you know it's not just
00:18:27.05\00:18:29.56
why we had such a tough
time it's because you are still
00:18:29.59\00:18:33.68
having such a tough
time and you're not out of
00:18:33.71\00:18:35.62
it yet you're
recognizing God's truths.
00:18:35.65\00:18:37.49
But to get them out and
get certain things out of head
00:18:37.52\00:18:41.30
it takes a little time and
you need to be a little more
00:18:41.33\00:18:43.71
gentle with yourselves I think.
00:18:43.74\00:18:45.26
You now, I think it's
important to recognize
00:18:45.29\00:18:47.34
as well that God
created us with the capacity
00:18:47.37\00:18:50.64
for all those
different kinds of love.
00:18:50.67\00:18:52.48
He created us to
have a love partner
00:18:52.51\00:18:56.60
and get married and
experience Eros love.
00:18:56.63\00:19:00.17
He created us
with that capacity.
00:19:00.20\00:19:02.25
He created women with
a capacity to love like
00:19:02.28\00:19:04.69
a mother and men to be
able to love like a father.
00:19:04.72\00:19:08.01
He created us with the
capacity to have friends.
00:19:08.04\00:19:10.95
Hmm. And those are all God given
00:19:10.98\00:19:13.79
you know impulses
that we have. Right.
00:19:13.82\00:19:16.46
Or instincts
that we have. Right,
00:19:16.49\00:19:17.84
it's we that have
changed and perverted it.
00:19:17.87\00:19:20.07
But because we are fallen. Yes.
00:19:20.10\00:19:22.10
Everything goes dry,
when we were originally
00:19:22.13\00:19:25.33
created in our
original state of perfection
00:19:25.36\00:19:27.44
we were programmed as it
were with God's Agape love.
00:19:27.47\00:19:31.21
Right. And that
was the under pending
00:19:31.24\00:19:32.84
or the under
goading, underneath every
00:19:32.87\00:19:35.06
relationship, every
relationship exercised
00:19:35.09\00:19:37.68
the principle of
self giving love.
00:19:37.71\00:19:39.57
Right. But
unfortunately because we are
00:19:39.60\00:19:42.51
fallen we tend to thrive
on our natural affections
00:19:42.54\00:19:46.69
without per taking
of the Spirit of God's
00:19:46.72\00:19:50.90
Agape love and any
relationship that is
00:19:50.93\00:19:53.23
based on natural affection alone
00:19:53.26\00:19:55.01
will ultimately self destruct,
00:19:55.04\00:19:57.05
I'm convinced of it. Hmm.
00:19:57.08\00:19:58.22
So, we need to at
this point approach it
00:19:58.25\00:20:01.38
differently then we
would if we were still
00:20:01.41\00:20:03.06
perfect and we need to
have the infilling of God's
00:20:03.09\00:20:05.64
Spirit working in
ourselves, in our hearts
00:20:05.67\00:20:08.06
and in our
relationships so that those
00:20:08.09\00:20:10.59
types of
relationships can survive.
00:20:10.62\00:20:13.00
Right. And God is good
and he does that for us.
00:20:13.03\00:20:15.87
So without God's love
then all human. That's right.
00:20:15.90\00:20:19.33
Love fails. That's right.
00:20:19.36\00:20:20.43
A good example
would be you know,
00:20:20.46\00:20:23.21
Bible says can a
mother forget her sucking
00:20:23.24\00:20:26.27
child that she
should not have compassion
00:20:26.30\00:20:28.53
on the son of her
womb. Yeah she may.
00:20:28.56\00:20:30.65
And then the word goes on to say
00:20:30.68\00:20:31.80
yes she may forget them
but I will not forget you.
00:20:31.86\00:20:34.55
And you know that makes
me think of Melissa Drexler
00:20:34.58\00:20:36.80
who is the girl that
you know so many of us
00:20:36.83\00:20:39.65
know about who became
pregnant out of wedlock
00:20:39.68\00:20:42.26
she was at her High School prom,
00:20:42.29\00:20:43.96
gave birth to the
baby in a bathroom
00:20:43.99\00:20:45.85
and threw the baby away
literally in the garbage.
00:20:45.88\00:20:48.70
And this is. You can imagine.
00:20:48.73\00:20:50.17
Well, this is not
uncommon you know this is
00:20:50.20\00:20:52.25
on public news and
that was not uncommon
00:20:52.28\00:20:54.51
and its' somehow that
got to be very promoted
00:20:54.54\00:20:57.52
or very public news.
But this proves that God
00:20:57.55\00:21:01.49
and what God said
that ye she may forget,
00:21:01.52\00:21:05.00
but I will not
forget you. That's right.
00:21:05.03\00:21:06.90
That's the worse case scenario.
00:21:06.93\00:21:08.54
You know most of us wouldn't
resort to something like
00:21:08.72\00:21:11.19
that and yet without
God's Agape working in our
00:21:11.22\00:21:13.92
relationships our relationships
00:21:13.95\00:21:16.65
will
disintegrate. Right. Over time.
00:21:16.68\00:21:18.61
Okay what else
information do we have?
00:21:18.64\00:21:20.51
What other
information do we have?
00:21:20.54\00:21:21.89
I think it might be good
idea for us to get a real
00:21:21.92\00:21:24.15
clear definition in
our minds of the difference
00:21:24.18\00:21:27.10
between God's Agape love.
00:21:27.13\00:21:29.48
Right. And
typical human love. Right.
00:21:29.51\00:21:33.81
And I in a nut shell,
I would put it this way
00:21:33.84\00:21:36.60
I would say God's
love, well let me start with
00:21:36.63\00:21:39.41
human love, human love is
an acquisitive type of love.
00:21:39.44\00:21:42.79
Hmm. That reaches
up to something that
00:21:42.82\00:21:46.34
that the individual
deems valuable and tries
00:21:46.37\00:21:50.38
to obtained that
something or that someone
00:21:50.41\00:21:52.69
in order to enrich one's self.
00:21:52.72\00:21:55.17
Did you say
inquisitive? Acquisitive.
00:21:55.20\00:21:57.97
Acquisitive, I
thought it wasn't inquisitive.
00:21:58.00\00:21:59.95
No not inquisitive, acquisitive,
00:21:59.98\00:22:01.46
in other words being
motivated to acquire.
00:22:01.49\00:22:03.61
Acquisition, okay.
To acquire something.
00:22:03.64\00:22:05.28
So I'm reaching up
to acquire something
00:22:05.31\00:22:07.81
that I deem worthy or
good in order to obtained
00:22:07.84\00:22:10.75
it for myself so that I
can enrich myself. Right.
00:22:10.78\00:22:13.53
It's a love based on
desire. I see something
00:22:13.56\00:22:16.02
worth loving, I
think it's beautiful,
00:22:16.05\00:22:18.15
I think it's good,
I think it's valuable
00:22:18.18\00:22:20.06
and I want it so I can
have it for myself. Right
00:22:20.09\00:22:23.00
That's human love,
alright, and that's how everyone
00:22:23.03\00:22:25.90
of us is destined to love
apart from the grace of God.
00:22:25.93\00:22:29.88
Yes. In contrast to that
is God's Agape love. Right.
00:22:29.91\00:22:33.68
Which works on the
opposite principle.
00:22:33.71\00:22:36.24
Agape love gives of
itself actually descends
00:22:36.27\00:22:41.17
or condescends like
Christ condescended.
00:22:41.20\00:22:43.84
Right. To help
something that is in need
00:22:43.87\00:22:48.32
of help or to
save something. Right.
00:22:48.35\00:22:50.16
That is in need of
salvation in order to make
00:22:50.19\00:22:53.25
that something
richer. So human love
00:22:53.28\00:22:56.22
seeks to acquire to enrich self.
00:22:56.25\00:22:58.41
It's selfish.
God's love seeks to give
00:22:58.44\00:23:00.79
in order to enrich others.
00:23:00.82\00:23:02.38
Selfless. That's
right. Selfish, selfless
00:23:02.41\00:23:05.89
and I think of the text
he became sin for us who knew
00:23:05.92\00:23:10.11
no sin that we might
be made the righteousness
00:23:10.14\00:23:13.18
of God in him. Amen.
00:23:13.21\00:23:14.71
So we need to think
of human love in terms
00:23:14.74\00:23:16.36
of a love that is seeking
to obtain that is ascending
00:23:16.39\00:23:19.97
or going up and God's
love in terms of something
00:23:20.00\00:23:23.18
that is seeking to
give like the Bible says.
00:23:23.21\00:23:26.50
That's reaching down.
Jesus poured out his soul into
00:23:26.53\00:23:29.18
death Isaiah 53,
something that is seeking
00:23:29.21\00:23:31.60
to give that is
reaching downward. Yes.
00:23:31.63\00:23:34.48
To help. It's beautiful
Jennifer, thank, it is,
00:23:34.51\00:23:36.05
you, beautiful and
that's the basic difference
00:23:36.08\00:23:37.85
between human
love and God's love
00:23:37.88\00:23:40.11
as I said before we were created
00:23:40.14\00:23:43.30
in God's image
originally and when we were
00:23:43.33\00:23:45.64
perfect we were
programmed with Agape. Right.
00:23:45.67\00:23:47.95
So we would naturally love
in order to enrich another.
00:23:48.07\00:23:51.60
Right. Now how about
friends betraying one another.
00:23:51.63\00:23:54.87
What about that
kind? Well any relationship
00:23:54.90\00:23:57.07
that is based on
merely human love
00:23:57.10\00:24:00.13
now that we are in
fallen state and we no longer
00:24:00.16\00:24:03.27
have Agape
working in us naturally.
00:24:03.30\00:24:05.91
Hmm. Any
relationship would disintegrate.
00:24:05.94\00:24:09.24
It will simply
die out or people will
00:24:09.27\00:24:12.27
betray one another. Right.
00:24:12.30\00:24:13.55
You know and the same
thing is true of romantic
00:24:13.58\00:24:16.48
based relationships.
You know if lasting
00:24:16.51\00:24:20.04
relationships
depended on good equipment
00:24:20.07\00:24:22.79
or strong passion. Right.
00:24:22.82\00:24:24.35
There would be
divorces in Hollywood you know.
00:24:24.38\00:24:28.14
Right. Because they
have the best equipment
00:24:28.17\00:24:30.62
and they have the
most. Lots of passion.
00:24:30.65\00:24:33.04
Fiery love affairs. Yes.
But do those relationships last.
00:24:33.07\00:24:36.65
No, they don't.
Once we began to study
00:24:36.68\00:24:40.71
and we both agreed
that something wasn't right
00:24:40.74\00:24:45.19
and I had to
literally pray constantly
00:24:45.22\00:24:50.38
I mean night after
night I would pray and
00:24:50.41\00:24:52.28
I say Lord please
instill in me your knowledge
00:24:52.31\00:24:55.45
of how I should love my husband?
00:24:55.48\00:24:57.39
How do I love my
husband with your kind of love
00:24:57.42\00:25:01.43
not with my kind of
love, because my love
00:25:01.46\00:25:03.65
is sinful, my
love was more you know
00:25:03.68\00:25:07.20
feeling bound
and. Based on desire.
00:25:07.23\00:25:10.66
Selfish as you
say. And John wanted
00:25:10.69\00:25:13.31
a selfless love. Have
you developed patience
00:25:13.34\00:25:15.61
with some of this? Or
you would develop patience.
00:25:15.77\00:25:19.12
Everyday developing
patience yeah there is.
00:25:19.15\00:25:21.82
And coping with
your own thoughts.
00:25:21.85\00:25:23.45
Well, yeah likely was
good and said you know
00:25:23.48\00:25:24.45
I'm not where I ought to
be but I'm glad that I'm.
00:25:26.12\00:25:29.49
You're glad your not
where you used to be.
00:25:30.22\00:25:31.19
Yeah. I'm glad that I'm not
where I used to be definitely.
00:25:32.15\00:25:35.89
Right, amen. And you
know I talked about human love
00:25:35.92\00:25:37.99
being based on
desire, often times romances
00:25:38.02\00:25:40.88
start out with a real
strong motivation of desire,
00:25:40.91\00:25:43.50
you meet a person
they are good looking,
00:25:43.53\00:25:45.75
they have a great personality
you just have some kind
00:25:45.78\00:25:47.74
of chemistry with them
and you feel very motivated
00:25:47.77\00:25:50.63
to be with that
person and often a commitment
00:25:50.66\00:25:52.93
follows, but after
the commitment is made
00:25:52.96\00:25:55.75
and the marriage
alter is crossed often times
00:25:55.78\00:25:59.79
I say probably 100% of
the time. Wouldn't you Kathy?
00:25:59.82\00:26:02.21
The feelings die out and
the desire kind of dissipates.
00:26:02.24\00:26:08.35
So would you say that
there is the principle
00:26:08.38\00:26:10.20
of love that
has to be a decision
00:26:10.23\00:26:12.51
it's not based merely on desire.
00:26:12.54\00:26:14.43
And if there isn't a
principle there. Hmm.
00:26:14.46\00:26:16.54
Then what's going to
perpetuate the relationship.
00:26:16.57\00:26:18.12
You know I would say
you know every white knight
00:26:18.15\00:26:21.38
that fights dragons and
you fall in love with him
00:26:21.41\00:26:24.65
ends up having dragon
breath in the morning.
00:26:24.68\00:26:26.32
You know, so there is
always going to be something
00:26:26.35\00:26:29.15
in your
relationship with a person
00:26:29.18\00:26:31.14
overtime that turns you off.
00:26:31.17\00:26:32.65
You know, what are
you gonna do if you
00:26:32.68\00:26:34.81
don't have a principle based
relationship at that point?
00:26:34.84\00:26:37.50
If your
relationship is based on desire
00:26:37.53\00:26:40.54
and you no
longer have the desire,
00:26:40.57\00:26:42.35
how is the
relationship going to survive.
00:26:42.38\00:26:45.66
Right. Without God's Agape love.
00:26:45.69\00:26:47.44
You know mothers and
fathers have to ask God
00:26:47.47\00:26:50.07
to give them love for
their children you have to ask
00:26:50.10\00:26:52.21
God to give love to you
for you for your husband
00:26:52.24\00:26:54.65
and he has to do
that at times for you.
00:26:54.68\00:26:57.28
Right. And so forth,
John did you have something
00:26:57.31\00:26:59.11
you wanted to say?
We've coming into out last
00:26:59.14\00:27:01.33
few seconds what did you have?
00:27:01.36\00:27:02.84
I just wanted to say
what she's saying about
00:27:02.87\00:27:04.82
the Agape love is once
you learn about the Agape love
00:27:04.85\00:27:08.86
those things seem they
disappear after a while,
00:27:08.89\00:27:13.91
they disappear and they
are not noticeable, those
00:27:13.94\00:27:15.76
flaws that you find.
They fall into place.
00:27:15.79\00:27:18.97
That's good thought. Thank you.
00:27:19.00\00:27:20.56
And I even think of
my children you know,
00:27:20.59\00:27:22.46
you know I can be so
in love with my children
00:27:22.49\00:27:25.36
you know I can
just, they are so cute
00:27:25.39\00:27:27.92
you know and I can
feel so endeared to them,
00:27:27.95\00:27:30.49
but then they do something that
00:27:30.52\00:27:31.57
just drives me
crazy and you know.
00:27:31.60\00:27:33.08
You know we're
going to go into more
00:27:33.11\00:27:34.66
on this aren't we
Jennifer? Yes, we are.
00:27:34.69\00:27:36.59
And we don't want
to lose you on this.
00:27:36.62\00:27:38.94
I think, that in our
love relationships the only
00:27:38.97\00:27:43.10
thing that's safe is
to be bound by Christ.
00:27:43.13\00:27:45.13
Amen. That's right.
00:27:45.16\00:27:46.13
Amen and I want to
thank you for being here
00:27:46.14\00:27:48.84
I know you have been nervous.
00:27:48.87\00:27:50.12
Thank you for
having us. Its' been great.
00:27:50.15\00:27:51.92
And I want to thank
you for being with us
00:27:51.95\00:27:53.99
as well and don't miss next time
00:27:54.02\00:27:55.51
because it's going to be good
00:27:55.54\00:27:57.06
on Thinking about Home.
00:27:57.09\00:27:58.64