Participants: Jay Gallimore, Kathy Matthews
Series Code: TAH
Program Code: TAH000104
|
00:31 Welcome to Thinking About Home. I am
00:33 Kathy Matthews and I am glad you're back 00:34 with us again, today. Today we are going to 00:37 discussing redemptive church discipline. 00:39 Now, that might not sound like it's 00:41 something that you're really going to be able 00:43 to use in your home but you can, because in the 00:46 the Bible there are so many biblical 00:47 principles in this area that you are going to 00:49 be able to glean and use in your home life and 00:53 I believe that you will be very happy to be 00:55 able to hear what we are going to present 00:58 today. And, our guest will be discussing 01:00 these principles with you and he is the president 01:03 of the Michigan Conference of 01:05 Seventh-day Adventist and it's Jay Gallimore. 01:07 Welcome Jay. Well, thank you Kathy, 01:09 it's nice to be here. I'm thankful that 01:11 you're here and I know that you do seminars in 01:18 this area and we are going to try to back 01:19 and forth with the principles of church 01:20 discipline and how also that these can be used 01:23 in our home, is that right? 01:24 That's right, I'm going to let you focus on the 01:26 home, I'm going to focus on the church part. 01:28 Well, you're gonna have to help me, I hope. 01:29 Sure. And, I just want to started with since we 01:34 are gonna look at prevention and 01:36 prevention is so important in the home, 01:39 what do you think. Well, let's discuss 01:44 that point first. Well, I think as my 01:47 mother taught me when I was a kid you know, 01:48 an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of 01:50 cure and I saw something kind of cute this morning 01:53 before we ate. Yes. It was a little 01:55 sign there that said you know, you wish 01:58 that you had, had an ounce of keeping your 02:00 mouth shut rather than having a pound of 02:02 trying to fix it after you said it. 02:04 Yes. Or regretting. Oh! My, yes. 02:05 So, that's true in redemptive discipline, 02:08 in church discipline, a lot of times people 02:11 focus on the cure, but they don't see 02:14 the whole scope of Matthew 18. Ummmm! 02:16 Jesus actually spends more time on the 02:19 prevention parts. So, the first thing we 02:21 want to talk about is, how do we prevent 02:23 people from getting in trouble. Yes. 02:25 Sheep will stray, they will stray. 02:27 Yes, yes. And so the question 02:28 is how can we keep them from straying 02:30 and to do apart on that. Uh huh. 02:32 So, the picture that Jesus gives us there 02:36 in Matthew chapter 18, that's where most of 02:37 focus is going to be is of the famous parable 02:42 that most people know of the one lost sheep. 02:44 Right. And, that's the thing going out finding 02:46 that sheep, bringing it back into the safe 02:48 environments of the, of the pen or the church 02:52 or whatever it is. Well, how much time 02:54 does a family spend on endeavoring to prevent 02:57 poor behavior. Well, I think that's a 02:59 real question for families, you know 03:01 a lot of times even parents I think, think 03:04 about well, what can I do to fix it, but we need 03:06 to think a lot more about what do we do to 03:08 prevent our children from getting into difficulty. 03:10 Right, you know, I was thinking about this is 03:12 and it's not just behavior. More, how to instill the 03:17 desire for virtuous living or virtuous 03:18 thinking, it's not just outward behavior that 03:21 we as, is in either in the church or in our 03:25 homes, want to prevent. You know, we don't 03:27 want to just prevent bad behavior. 03:29 We want to instill good thinking. 03:31 That's right. Well, the best, the best 03:34 prevention for bad behavior is just good 03:36 behavior just like you said and the joy of 03:39 having a good happy, happy life. 03:41 And, Jesus starts out bringing a little child 03:44 into this, doesn't he? Yes, he does, it's 03:46 fascinating the way he does that and let's 03:49 just turn to scripture right now. Okay. 03:50 And, just look here in in Matthew chapter 18, 03:52 and we're going to look at verses 3-5. 03:56 It says here, "Truly I say to you, unless 04:00 you're converted and become like children you 04:02 shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. 04:04 Whoever then humbles himself as this child, 04:06 he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 04:09 And whoever receives such one, a child in my name 04:12 receives me," Matthew 18:3-5, that's the New 04:18 American Standard Version. The child here 04:19 of course represents the members of the church, 04:20 it's a symbol of the members. Right. 04:22 So, we rightly use that concept, our Heavenly 04:27 Father, we're all brothers and sisters in 04:28 Christ, but Jesus knew that the simple 04:31 creatures that we are. Yes. That rivalry 04:36 and trouble and difficulty and the church 04:37 would become non-functional, which 04:38 is kind of one of the challenges we have in 04:39 home today. Unless there is 04:41 structure in the church, unless there is 04:43 discipline in the church, then the church will 04:46 seize to function and accomplish it's mission. 04:48 And, you have more sibling rivalry. 04:50 And more sibling will end. In the home or 04:53 in the church. That's right. Right. 04:54 That's often the truth. If it's not functioning 04:56 that way. So, how do we, how do we handle 04:59 this prevention thing? What can the church 05:00 do to really begin to prevent the children, 05:06 brothers and sisters from going astray and 05:09 how do we accept new people coming into the 05:11 church too. You have a dynamic thing 05:13 going on, you have the members who are already 05:14 in the church. Right. And you have new 05:15 people coming in. You know, human beings 05:19 sometimes do like, like horses, there is a 05:23 order that they establish. Did you say 05:25 like what? Horses. That's like hinds. 05:27 Well, I suppose, but horses do it too. 05:30 Okay. My daughter has a horse so.Yes. 05:33 She gets in with a herd of horses. Okay. 05:35 I don't have a herd. She had just one horse, 05:36 but. Okay. The interesting thing is 05:38 that they establish a kind of, where they 05:41 one another up you know. Right, right. And we 05:43 tend to do that with each other, instead of simply 05:47 accepting each other, first of all as a child 05:50 of God and that's where it, what it means to be 05:53 converted. And, you are not talking about 05:54 accepting sin, but accepting the sinner. 05:58 That's right, when a person comes into the 06:01 church that new person is a new baby in Christ. 06:05 Right. And, I accept that new baby as my 06:08 brother and my sister. As we do in the home, 06:11 knowing that they are going to have 06:12 difficulties growing. That's right, and that 06:15 is one of the most important things to 06:18 help prevent fallout, is because the person 06:22 needs to feel accepted within the church family. 06:25 And, I suppose in the home, the most important 06:29 thing a child wants to know is. That they are 06:32 accepted. That's right, and loved. Right, and 06:35 they and it transfers, if they are not even, 06:37 if you don't say so That's true, that's true. 06:39 So we have got to do an outstanding job teaching 06:44 members to love one another. When we love 06:48 our children and children love one another doesn't 06:51 mean that they accept them in their evil 06:55 behavior. Yes. But it means that 06:57 they're accept them in order to try to help 06:59 them. Right. Because we're all poor. 07:00 Right. Sinners stumbling along together. Right. 07:03 As we are needing the grace of God. 07:04 And, how we approach them would make all 07:06 the difference. So, if we're going to 07:08 prevent people from going astray, then love has got 07:12 to be at the center of that, now true converted 07:15 person, if we going to have people of doing a 07:19 good job of loving one another, they really got 07:21 to be converted, changed. Have a heart conversion. 07:24 That's right. Yes. And, we love the 07:25 Lord Jesus, follow the follow the Lord Jesus 07:27 I am going to love, you know I used to tell 07:29 people I would say, do you know why my 07:33 wife's mother loves me so much. No. 07:37 We lost her a few, about a year ago and 07:41 I, we all loved her, but the reason she loved me 07:44 is because Linda loved me. I can think of 07:51 another example of those kinds of things. 07:52 Yeah, and the same thing, as we love our heavenly 07:55 we love the savior. Yes. Then we love each other 07:58 because we know, they love you. I mean, I Know 08:01 you very well. Right. But you're new a member 08:03 of the church and I know that Jesus loves you. 08:04 Right. Therefore you're my brother in Christ. 08:06 Right, right. So, we have to develop 08:07 family within the church and that's why I am 08:09 saying when we develop a family atmosphere within 08:12 the church is much more difficult with people to 08:15 stray when they get in trouble. Right, right. 08:17 And, they want to be held accountable, and 08:19 they don't mind to be held accountable. 08:20 That's right. By that, by you. And, we have 08:26 something about stumbling blocks. Well, this is a 08:30 very interesting place that Jesus goes now. 08:34 Yes. In fact some of the strongest language that 08:36 Jesus ever uses is right here in Matthew 18, 08:40 we ought to go to that now, here in Matthew 08:42 chapter 18 and we want to look at, starting with 08:46 verse six here, it says "but whoever causes one 08:51 of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, 08:54 it is better for him that a heavy millstone be hung 08:58 about his neck, and that he be drowned in the 09:00 depths of the sea. And, woe to the world because 09:03 of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that 09:06 stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man 09:09 through whom the stumbling block comes! 09:12 If your hand or your foot causes you to 09:14 stumble, cut it off, throw it from you, 09:16 it is better for you to enter life crippled or 09:18 lame, than having two hands or two feet and 09:22 be cast into the eternal fire." That's strong. 09:25 That's strong. I think Jesus is saying 09:28 here to us, you have to understand how much my 09:31 heavenly Father loves his children. And, 09:34 I think what he is saying is this that don't 09:37 be a stumbling block, but we need to come 09:38 back Kathy and talk about what it means to 09:40 be a stumbling block, because I think that 09:41 has some parallels in the home as well. 09:43 Okay, alright, alright. But he says don't be 09:46 a stumbling block because, if you become 09:47 stumbling block and one of your brothers or 09:50 sisters in the church falls and loses his 09:53 eternal life because of what you did. 09:56 You did. You are going to have to meet my 09:59 father in the day of Judgment. Alright. 10:04 And then father is going to be as a judge and 10:07 he will not be very happy, that's what it's 10:10 saying and that's a very strong line, 10:12 it's kind of those scary things in sins, but 10:14 aren't we as family, don't we guard carefully 10:18 our children, don't we love them and what 10:22 would make you more angry quicker than 10:25 anything. Well, I can, I can think of some things 10:28 that we have gone through in a family and 10:30 as we have difficulties with one because it 10:33 might influence the other to do wrong, that 10:35 bothers me a great deal. Sure. And, 10:38 I'm certain it does the heavenly father as well. 10:41 Yes. If we do that sort of thing to the 10:42 church member. That's right. 10:44 But as I think of a home life, one of the 10:47 things that disturbs me the most is if one of the 10:49 youth, or one of the younger ones is doing 10:52 something that's going to influence the other one 10:54 and possibly the younger one. We have. 10:57 Usually the younger one. Yes, yes, or other kids 11:00 or sometimes even adults can become terrible 11:03 stumbling blocks. We have terrible things 11:05 that happen sometimes in families or from 11:07 people outside the families. Right. 11:08 That destroy the spiritual life or the 11:10 development of children in our society, I think 11:14 rightly so, and we as as parents. Yes. 11:17 Deeply concerned about that kind of thing, and 11:18 it brings out a very severe response. 11:20 Well, and I was just thinking though in not 11:22 just siblings being one to another, but a father 11:25 or mother being a stumbling block to the 11:26 children, there are those that we met in Russia, 11:28 who, the children would be in church the parents 11:31 would not and it was difficult for the child 11:35 to follow. And, so, and so in homes here in 11:39 the States or the western worlds. Right. But, 11:42 how do we, how do we not be a stumbling block, 11:46 now that's the key question, none of us 11:47 want to be a stumbling block, but the question 11:49 is this, how do we define when we are a stumbling 11:52 block obviously none of us are perfect, 11:54 obviously all of us are frail and we make 11:58 mistakes and we do things that influence 12:00 people wrongly at times where we wish we didn't. 12:03 And many times not even knowing it. So, Jay, 12:05 how do you define a stumbling block. 12:07 Well, I think that's really the crucial issue 12:09 and I think it was just got to go to the 12:11 scripture to do that, but before we go to 12:13 the scripture let me give a little background 12:14 here. In the early church they had a 12:17 lifestyle issue, believe it or not. Yes. 12:20 And, it was called eating food offered 12:23 to idols. Now you know, we can go 12:25 down to the local grocery store and you buy 12:27 anything you want, you don't worry about 12:28 whether it's been offered to an idol, but in those 12:30 days the supermarkets practically had 12:32 everything particularly flesh food offered to 12:34 idols, so you have, you have a brother 12:37 and sister Jew. Jewish Christians. 12:39 Right. Raised that way are what raised 12:43 in their culture and then then you have a gentile 12:45 Christians coming into the church. Now, 12:48 fascinatingly enough those, dear gentile 12:51 Christians have been bowing down to idols 12:53 and every time they're eating food offered to 12:55 an idol was a act of worship. Right. 12:57 To brother and sister, gentile, Jew it just 13:01 didn't make many difference you know, 13:02 why, why worry about it because I mean 13:06 idols were nothing, I mean if you were 13:07 to give, if you gave an idol to Apostle 13:10 Paul, he'd melt the gold down and make 13:12 him some money. Right, right. 13:14 Okay that make a place to warm his hands 13:15 over or what have you, but the question was, 13:18 but how shall we handle this tension within the 13:20 church because, hey, this is no small thing. 13:22 Right. I mean this is dealing with your 13:24 everyday life, when you go down to the 13:26 supermarket, how do we do it. So they decided to 13:28 get delegates to go to Jerusalem and there 13:31 they would make a decision together very 13:34 much like we do in our own church family 13:36 today. So, when they went there after they 13:39 got through talking about all of this, 13:42 then we have the apostles giving the results of 13:46 that and we are gonna turn to the scripture 13:48 and pick that up, "that you abstain from 13:53 things sacrificed to idols and from blood 13:55 and from things strangled and from fornication, 13:58 if you keep yourselves free from such things, 14:02 you will do well. Farewell." Now, we 14:05 are going to watch how this, this decision 14:09 that was made by the collective church, how 14:12 the word stumbling block is attached to 14:14 that. Right. So, here is the Christian 14:16 community, the early Christian community 14:17 and they have to come together, they made a 14:19 decision on this issue and now we are gonna 14:22 watch what Paul says, and what John says 14:25 in the Book of Revelation, so we want 14:27 to go now to First Corinthians chapter 8 14:29 and we are gonna look at verses 1, 4, 9-12. 14:33 Now, here is what Paul says. Now concerning 14:35 things sacrificed to idols, we know that 14:38 we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes 14:43 arrogant, but love edifies. Therefore 14:44 concerning the eating of things sacrificed to 14:46 idols, we know that there is no such things 14:48 as an idol in the world, and that there is no 14:51 God but one. But food will not 14:53 commend us to God. We are neither the 14:57 worse, if we do not eat, nor the better if we 14:58 do eat, nor the better if we do eat. 15:02 But take care lest this liberty of yours 15:04 somehow become a, here it is, stumbling 15:07 block to the weak. Sounds like 15:10 a nursery, see. Yes. 15:12 For if, then the scripture goes on, 15:14 for if someone sees you, 15:15 who have knowledge, dining in an 15:17 idol's temple, will not his conscience, 15:20 if he is weak, be strengthened 15:21 to eat things sacrificed to idols. 15:23 For through your knowledge 15:27 he who is weak is ruined, 15:30 the brother for whose sake Christ died. 15:33 And, thus, by sinning against 15:34 the brethren and wounding their conscience 15:37 when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 15:40 Now, I wanna stop here before I go into the rest 15:44 of the text we can look out. 15:45 This is a very fascinating text, 15:47 the principle, again Paul nails 15:50 down is simply this, that we have 15:53 a responsibility to one another to look 15:56 after each others. Yes. 15:58 Spiritual welfare. Oh! 15:59 He is talking about being preventive, 16:01 do preventive discipline if you please. 16:03 Yes, yes. And, so my behavior 16:05 has a well influence on the rest of the family 16:08 and if I am openly, unconsciously 16:12 violating something that the body 16:15 had agreed on. Yes. 16:16 Even though I may say to myself. 16:17 Right. Like some of those 16:18 early Christians must have said. 16:19 Yes. They must have said, 16:20 what difference does it make, 16:21 it doesn't impact my Christian walk with Jesus, 16:24 if I eat a little food offered to idols. 16:26 Right. Paul says, 16:27 you missed the point. Yes. 16:28 The point is that your brother, 16:30 who is weak or new in the faith 16:33 may not be able to understand. 16:36 Yes, don't do it for their sake. 16:38 That's right. And, so therefore. 16:41 That's where real love comes in. 16:42 Aah! You know, 16:43 selfless love has to be there in the heart, 16:46 if you are going to be able to make 16:47 the decision to do that for someone else's sake, 16:48 when you see nothing wrong with it. 16:50 Certainly. See this is really 16:52 teaching our congregations 16:53 how to really love like Jesus loves. 16:56 Give up self. I like the NIV, 16:57 I think the NIV says, knowledge puffs up 17:02 that was I have the knowledge, 17:03 this ain't going to hurt me. 17:05 Right, right. Knowledge puffs up, 17:07 but love builds up. Yes, yes, satisfies. 17:11 And, that's the great principle. 17:13 Yes. Now, Paul really 17:14 parallels Jesus, because he ends 17:17 this by saying, if you just go on 17:18 blatantly doing this disregarding. 17:20 Right. The community of faith, 17:22 behaving in a way the community of faith 17:24 says we are not to behave. 17:26 Right. Then he says 17:28 very strongly, you sinned 17:31 against Christ, now that's strong. 17:34 Yes. This is strong. 17:35 We need to, we need to recognize, 17:37 what we are really doing, how serious it is, 17:39 both in the church and in the family, 17:41 if we are sinning against Christ 17:43 when we do this. That's right. 17:44 That needs to have meaning to us. 17:46 That's right. Well, you know, 17:48 is anything more precious than our families, 17:52 our husbands and wives to one another, 17:55 children in the family. What is more 17:59 precious than that, I mean you and I 18:01 would give everything we have in the world 18:03 to save our children, our husband, our wife. 18:06 God loves his church that way. 18:11 Yes. And, we just cannot 18:13 live as you have said it so nicely with this 18:17 independent attitude. Yes. Because 18:19 we were talking a moment ago. 18:20 Now just to go in a little explanation 18:22 about that, we were talking about 18:23 we don't need to become so independent and even 18:27 in the family or the church, 18:28 we need to be interdependent. 18:30 And, that way we have accountability, 18:33 we have a recognized love toward one another 18:37 in a relationship. That's right. 18:39 Let's go back to the text, 18:41 the scripture here and just watch this 18:42 theme as it, as it unfolds 18:45 and we are going to the Book of Revelation 18:47 here with, with John 18:49 and this is what he has to say, 18:51 actually this is Jesus speaking, 18:52 this is a red letter in most editions 18:54 and here is what has to say. 18:56 "But I have a few things against you, 18:59 because you have some there, 19:01 who hold to the teaching of Balaam, 19:02 who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block 19:07 before the sons of Israel, 19:08 to eat things sacrificed to idols, 19:11 there it is again see, and to commit acts 19:14 of immorality. But I have this 19:16 against you, that you tolerate 19:18 the women, Jezebel, who calls herself 19:20 a prophetess, and she leads my 19:21 bond-servants astray, that's like the 19:24 sheep going astray, you see. 19:25 So, they commit acts of immortality and eat 19:29 things offered to idols. So, this, this thing 19:32 even Jesus himself, now many years after 19:35 Paul was dead and John is the last living apostle, 19:38 he ties this thing to a stumbling block. 19:41 Why? Because the church has agreed on it, 19:43 to influence the Holy Spirit. 19:44 I think the scripture is very clear here 19:47 that when the family has things 19:51 they know they have agreed on 19:52 that they shouldn't do, the church 19:54 has things they know, they've agreed on, 19:55 under the inspiration of Holy Spirit 19:57 they shouldn't do. Right. 19:58 Then to openly violate that 20:00 or arrogantly violate that tears down, 20:02 it doesn't build up and we could be come 20:04 a stumbling block, so it comes back 20:05 to being submissive and interdependent 20:08 upon one another. Right, right, 20:10 you like that don't you? I do, I like it a lot 20:12 as a matter of fact. Okay. 20:14 Well, I guess we ought to ask a question, 20:18 what happens in a home Kathy, 20:20 when parents, when parents 20:24 do not uphold lifestyle issues that are voted 20:27 by the larger church family. 20:29 Right. Where can we go with that, 20:31 what can we do with it. Yeah. 20:33 You have some practical steps, 20:36 don't you? Yes, and I, and I will 20:39 come to that in just a moment, 20:40 but I wanna come back to this, 20:41 this thing about the home again perhaps 20:44 when the best things you know, 20:45 good religion is not merely taught it's caught. 20:47 Yes, yes. And, and we need 20:50 to be able to live the right life 20:52 in front of our kids. If we are telling our kids 20:55 they need to go to church, but we don't go 20:56 ourselves for instance. That's right. 20:58 Or we are telling kids they are not to watch 21:00 certain stuff on television 21:01 and we are there watching it ourselves. 21:03 Yes. Or we're looking at 21:04 movies and we know our kids ought not, 21:06 and we are saying we're adults we can 21:07 handle those things. Right, or listening 21:09 to music that's inappropriate. 21:11 Or listening to music. But rather your children 21:12 not develop for. Well said. 21:15 Then we stand a chance of becoming 21:18 a stumbling block for our own children. 21:20 Yes. Because we are unwilling 21:21 to discipline ourselves. In fact Paul 21:24 would say even if, even if I don't think 21:27 it's a harm to me as an adult 21:30 maybe it's okay to me, 21:31 I have think even about my children. 21:33 Right. In the home. 21:34 Right. And, that's true in the 21:35 church family as well, it's being unselfish 21:38 is to discipline myself when I really 21:40 don't have to, because I love somebody. 21:43 And so many times we hang on to that, 21:45 well if it's, if it's alright I can 21:46 go ahead and do it. Yeah. 21:48 But we don't really care about that other person. 21:52 Right. And I suppose 21:55 our selfish nature plays such a part in that. 21:57 Yes. Because it could 21:59 be acceptable to me. Right. 22:00 Even to Paul. Right. 22:03 I ought to have the right to go ahead and do it. 22:06 That's right. And, we, like you said, 22:08 you missed the point, you are responsible 22:11 to someone else. That's right. 22:12 Well, lets go back to some practical steps 22:15 now that a church family should be taking 22:17 in order to produce a good nursery. 22:19 Okay. To prevent people 22:21 from going astray. Alright. 22:22 So to speak, first of all 22:24 there should be good biblical 22:26 preaching on Christ, our righteousness, 22:30 on lifestyle and sanctification, 22:32 as well as justification. You mean 22:34 we should hear this. We need to be hearing 22:36 that from the pulpit, in other words. 22:38 By the way there is a very fascinating 22:40 illustration that in certain areas, 22:42 in certain inter city areas. 22:45 Yes. Actually drugs 22:46 are going down because Africa 22:49 and American preachers have taken 22:51 to their pulpits on a rally against drugs 22:54 and they're actually having a tremendous, 22:55 young people do listen to preachers 22:57 and so do adults. Even though we sometimes 23:00 laugh and smile where they don't, 23:01 but they do and actually drug use went down 23:03 when these wonderful ministers 23:06 took their pulpits. Right. 23:07 So, I also believe that loves needs 23:09 a delivery truck, which means that 23:10 you can't just believe this will kind of happen, 23:13 you have to organize and the spiritual leaders 23:15 of the church are the elders. Yes. 23:17 And, they must be organized. 23:18 Now, what we would do is that we would 23:21 give every elder ten families 23:23 in our church and we would say. 23:25 Right. You are, you're their 23:26 spiritual leader, you watch 23:28 over them and. Would you have 23:30 as many elders then if you did this, 23:31 it might not decline eldership, 23:34 may be if they don't want ten families 23:35 to take care of? Well, it says that 23:38 being an elder is much more being on the platform 23:40 of Sabbath morning. Yes, yes. 23:42 So to speak. We would meet 23:44 in our elders meeting, our elders meetings 23:45 are not build of leaky roof and all that, 23:47 are the financial matters of the church. Yes. 23:49 What our elders did, was they spent that 23:51 time in prayer and they spend that time 23:53 going over their church family, 23:54 saying is you know, how, how members are doing 23:57 spiritually and we would held each 23:59 other accountable, how are we 24:00 doing spiritually. And if they saw 24:02 someone begin to astray they would put together 24:05 a plan of rescue. Yes. And, I never will forget, 24:10 I had a group of elders, we had a real 24:11 tragic situation where a young person 24:14 fell in perversion. Yes. And, how do you 24:17 respond to that, how do you help 24:20 pull that person out of that. Right. 24:22 Those elders, they got down their knees, 24:24 but after they got off of their knees 24:25 they went to work and I watched those elder 24:27 raise a sizable sum of money among 24:30 themselves to send this individual 24:32 to a place to get special help. Wow! 24:34 They put him on probation for a year and worked 24:37 with him etc. and each one would pray 24:39 with this individual until this individual 24:41 was restore back to the church family. 24:43 Right. So, they developed 24:45 plans of rescue. That's the way 24:47 a father should do it in the home, 24:49 developing, purposely developing plans 24:52 of rescue for the child. 24:54 That's right. And there is 24:55 family members, thinking it. 24:56 That's right, he's gotta be 24:58 a spiritual leader in the home. Yes. 24:59 The elders have got be spiritual leaders. 25:01 Another thing that elders had to do is we must, 25:04 we must on Sabbath morning, 25:06 let me, let me go back to that organization there, 25:08 no Pastor can get around to everybody 25:10 and people need, people need three things 25:13 in order to feel loved, people, people don't, 25:17 people sometimes know they are loved, 25:19 but they need to feel love and our kids are same way 25:22 by the way. Absolutely. And, the three things 25:24 they need and no one minister can give it 25:27 to all the church members. Right. 25:29 On Sabbath morning. So, those three things 25:32 are first of all they need eye contact. 25:36 They do. Oh! Yes, I love that. 25:39 Eye contact tells me that I'm cared about. 25:43 So you know, on Sabbath morning 25:45 the elders should be right there 25:46 on the foyer greeting the members of the church 25:48 and he should be making going around 25:50 to the young people, to the members 25:51 of his group at least making sure they get 25:53 some eye contact. Right. I think they need 25:55 appropriate touch, underline the 25:57 word appropriate. I understand that. 25:58 And, a good hand shake, a warm hand shake, 26:01 a pat, in certain circumstances an arm 26:04 around somebody perhaps or whatever 26:06 fits the culture of that particular church family. 26:09 No doubt for too many warm fuzzies. 26:11 Yeah, it needs to be appropriate 26:13 and I'll say that again. Yes. 26:14 A appropriate, appropriate contact, 26:17 physical contact. Right. And, the third one 26:20 is the hardest one and that's really 26:22 why you need the elders, because they need 26:24 to be able to give focused attention 26:26 to each individual, you cannot do 26:28 that as a Pastor running around, 26:30 focused attention says to greet you on 26:32 Sabbath morning and it says to you Kathy, 26:37 it's so good to see you, I remember last week 26:39 your mother was ill and I have been praying 26:42 for her this week. Oh! Yes. 26:44 How is she doing? You see what I am saying. 26:45 Oh! It makes a difference. 26:47 Rather than coming up to you and say Kathy, 26:48 it's so nice to see today, 26:49 I hope everything is going great 26:50 and then on your way. That's right. 26:52 Focused attention means that you got to put time, 26:54 invest time in that, that individual 26:56 and young people in particularly need that. 27:01 And, I can see that there is a, there is a, 27:04 it's really a real seriousness in the home, 27:06 a real seriousness in the church, 27:08 a joy of being a member, either of the house 27:11 of faith or in the home. A true love 27:14 for the family, as well as in the church 27:16 and a strong desire not to shame the family 27:20 or their church or to disgrace them. 27:22 That's right. That's nicely said. 27:25 So just to cap off here to prevent the 27:30 members need to be converted 27:31 and love the Lord with all their heart 27:33 and to love each other. They got to be careful 27:36 not to be stumbling blocks, 27:37 to live up to what they profess to believe 27:39 and then the elders need to be organized 27:42 to bless them, so that's kind 27:44 of the cap Kathy. Thank you very much 27:46 and I want to thank you for joining us 27:48 and I am sure that you will be blessed 27:49 by what you heard today, I have been. 27:52 And I appreciate that you've joined us, 27:55 join us again on Thinking About Home. |
Revised 2014-12-17