Hi, I'm Kathy Matthews, and
this is Thinking about Home.
00:00:30.67\00:00:34.23
And I'm glad you're
with us again today.
00:00:34.24\00:00:36.09
Last time we were talking
about family life naturally
00:00:36.10\00:00:39.76
and we were talking about
our home setting and we were
00:00:39.77\00:00:43.51
talking to Dr. Jim
Tucker from Andrews University.
00:00:43.52\00:00:46.52
Jim, I'm glad you're back again.
00:00:46.53\00:00:48.39
Good to be back.
00:00:48.40\00:00:49.46
And we're going to, why
don't you just review us
00:00:49.47\00:00:52.09
a little bit
about the last time.
00:00:52.10\00:00:53.99
Well, the last time we
talked, we talked about
00:00:54.00\00:00:55.55
the fact that
God created a garden
00:00:55.56\00:00:58.84
and then He put us our
first parents in that garden,
00:00:58.85\00:01:02.67
you know, that was
the natural setting
00:01:02.68\00:01:04.81
for the first family and
in my belief system in UAE,
00:01:04.82\00:01:09.45
there's never been
an improvement on that.
00:01:09.46\00:01:11.68
Yeah. We are better
off if we try to emulate
00:01:11.69\00:01:14.79
that original
setting for our families.
00:01:14.80\00:01:18.38
Oh, you know, and
that brings a thought to me
00:01:18.39\00:01:20.69
out of 'Ministry of Healing,'
and Ministry of Healing
00:01:20.70\00:01:22.57
was one of my husband,
one of most favorite books
00:01:22.58\00:01:26.47
that my husband Tom has.
00:01:26.48\00:01:28.32
And in it, it was
God gave a plan to Israel
00:01:28.33\00:01:31.48
to live on the country,
and each one had to have
00:01:31.49\00:01:33.51
a place of their own.
00:01:33.52\00:01:34.49
And no thinking, devising of man
00:01:34.50\00:01:36.59
has ever improved
upon His plan. Amen.
00:01:36.60\00:01:38.95
And it makes me
think, then obviously Jesus
00:01:38.96\00:01:41.80
had a certain type of setting,
00:01:41.81\00:01:43.46
what kind of setting
in His day did He have?
00:01:43.47\00:01:47.44
In the book, Desire of Ages,
we're told that God selected
00:01:47.45\00:01:51.75
the setting for
Jesus to grow up in
00:01:51.76\00:01:54.54
and it was not in the
village or town of Nazareth,
00:01:54.55\00:01:59.28
it was in the hills
outside of Nazareth,
00:01:59.29\00:02:02.72
in a country setting with
the plants and the animals
00:02:02.73\00:02:07.46
and the things of
nature all around Him,
00:02:07.47\00:02:10.75
that's where He
grew up as a child.
00:02:10.76\00:02:13.14
Well, that would
certainly be an example to us,
00:02:13.15\00:02:17.97
we need to think
about what kind of setting
00:02:17.98\00:02:20.41
that we're growing up in,
if that's what God put Him in.
00:02:20.42\00:02:24.28
Did God do
anything without a reason?
00:02:24.29\00:02:25.96
Well, no, and
that's exactly right,
00:02:25.97\00:02:27.62
it is so obvious,
it seems to me that
00:02:27.63\00:02:30.15
if God put Adam and
Eve in a garden. Yes.
00:02:30.16\00:02:33.44
In a natural
setting, and then God says,
00:02:33.45\00:02:36.36
it's now time to bring My
Son into the picture. Yes.
00:02:36.37\00:02:39.34
He is going to save the world,
00:02:39.35\00:02:40.91
and He is going to emulate
and be the model for all times.
00:02:40.92\00:02:45.73
Then you'd wanna look
at the kind of setting
00:02:45.74\00:02:48.40
God placed Him in
and think there has to be
00:02:48.41\00:02:52.28
something
significant about that.
00:02:52.29\00:02:54.95
Well, since we're
talking about Him and nature,
00:02:54.96\00:02:57.70
what kind of role did nature
play then in Jesus childhood?
00:02:57.71\00:03:02.05
Well, think about Jesus now,
He's the creator of the world.
00:03:02.06\00:03:05.86
He's now come as a tiny
baby and He is growing up
00:03:05.87\00:03:09.31
with the birds and
the plants and the garden
00:03:09.32\00:03:13.10
that His parents have,
and He's having to learn
00:03:13.11\00:03:16.18
all these things as a child.
00:03:16.19\00:03:18.66
And one of the
things that occurs to Him
00:03:18.67\00:03:21.52
as He is discovering
under the influence of
00:03:21.53\00:03:24.08
the Holy Spirit
that He is something more
00:03:24.09\00:03:28.00
than just a little boy.
00:03:28.01\00:03:30.04
At some point it's
got to occur to Him,
00:03:30.05\00:03:33.51
wow! I'm, these
are things I made.
00:03:33.52\00:03:38.09
And that bond with
the things of nature,
00:03:39.71\00:03:42.93
it just, it thrills me
to imagine what kind of
00:03:42.94\00:03:46.31
thoughts went through His mind
00:03:46.32\00:03:48.43
as He began to communicate
with the things that,
00:03:48.44\00:03:52.34
that He had made.
00:03:52.35\00:03:54.26
And in fact,
probably my favorite phrase
00:03:54.27\00:03:59.24
relating to nature
and the use of nature
00:03:59.25\00:04:02.95
and learning how to be as
we should be is from the book,
00:04:02.96\00:04:07.53
Desire of Ages by
Ellen White and page 70,
00:04:07.54\00:04:10.98
where she uses a
phrase that we've heard,
00:04:10.99\00:04:15.20
anyone who's read that
book has had this phrase
00:04:15.21\00:04:19.66
in their mind for a long time,
00:04:19.67\00:04:21.26
it's a very short
phrase, and you'd--
00:04:21.27\00:04:23.48
I just now think I know
what it is, but go ahead.
00:04:23.49\00:04:26.69
He lived to bless others.
00:04:26.70\00:04:30.54
Yes, and that phrase a
lot of us have had brought
00:04:30.55\00:04:34.57
to our attention many,
many times over the years.
00:04:34.58\00:04:37.76
He lived to bless others
and wow, what an example.
00:04:37.77\00:04:41.21
He presented to us His whole
life was a blessing to others,
00:04:41.22\00:04:46.61
which is what we should do.
00:04:46.62\00:04:48.77
But very few people know
what the next sentence is.
00:04:48.78\00:04:53.56
And the next sentence. I
can't think about it either.
00:04:53.57\00:04:55.80
Well, we don't
read the rest of it,
00:04:55.81\00:04:57.80
we just stop right there because
00:04:57.81\00:04:59.24
it's such a powerful statement.
00:04:59.25\00:05:01.84
But the next sentence tells us
00:05:01.85\00:05:04.73
how He learned how to do that.
00:05:04.74\00:05:07.68
Oh, and that's what
we're telling about.
00:05:07.69\00:05:10.06
And that's exactly
what we're talking about.
00:05:10.07\00:05:12.26
So the first sentence is
"He lived to bless others,"
00:05:12.27\00:05:15.62
and then for this,
for blessing others
00:05:15.63\00:05:19.19
He found resources in nature.
00:05:19.20\00:05:22.00
Peroid, and then
the next sentence is,
00:05:22.01\00:05:24.27
new ideas of ways
and means to do what?
00:05:24.28\00:05:28.99
Bless others,
flashed into His mind
00:05:29.00\00:05:32.39
as He studied plant
life and animal life.
00:05:32.40\00:05:37.09
Now, I mean. Why
would we do anything else?
00:05:37.10\00:05:40.00
That's right. New ideas of ways
00:05:40.01\00:05:42.46
and means to be a
blessing to mankind
00:05:42.47\00:05:45.23
flashed into His mind.
00:05:45.24\00:05:47.01
The Holy Spirit of course.
00:05:47.02\00:05:49.20
And further down that
page, Ellen White says that
00:05:49.21\00:05:53.90
every child today may
learn as Jesus learned
00:05:53.91\00:05:57.82
from the things of nature.
00:05:57.83\00:05:59.77
But parents somehow
have to be able to get that
00:05:59.78\00:06:02.47
going in their mind. Yes.
00:06:02.48\00:06:04.92
To draw it out, get
it going and draw it out.
00:06:04.93\00:06:07.73
Yes. And it's not as
hard as we think however.
00:06:07.74\00:06:11.82
Parents are often put off
as we talked about last time,
00:06:11.83\00:06:15.27
by that the thought that they
have to be all knowledgeable,
00:06:15.28\00:06:18.52
or they have to be
a biology professor
00:06:18.53\00:06:20.33
or they have to know
the names of everything.
00:06:20.34\00:06:22.44
Parents really,
all they have to do is
00:06:22.45\00:06:24.23
just get the kids
as young as possible
00:06:24.24\00:06:27.13
and as often as
possible out of the house,
00:06:27.14\00:06:30.25
into the
garden, into the fields,
00:06:30.26\00:06:32.00
into the woods,
just get them there
00:06:32.01\00:06:33.84
and let the
environment speak on its own.
00:06:33.85\00:06:36.70
Let the curiosity
take place. Yes, exactly.
00:06:36.71\00:06:40.84
And what else,
what else do you have,
00:06:40.85\00:06:42.61
what gems of truth do you have
00:06:42.62\00:06:43.94
more for us
about Jesus childhood.
00:06:43.95\00:06:45.73
Well, Jesus
learned in His childhood
00:06:45.74\00:06:48.86
about all the things He had made
00:06:48.87\00:06:52.13
and then He drew
from those examples
00:06:52.14\00:06:55.36
His most powerful messages.
00:06:55.37\00:06:59.00
In fact, if you recall the text
00:06:59.01\00:07:01.65
He spoken to them
in parables. Right.
00:07:01.66\00:07:03.81
In fact, it says,
00:07:03.82\00:07:04.90
without a parable
spake He not unto them.
00:07:04.91\00:07:08.63
That's all He
did, was tell stories.
00:07:08.64\00:07:10.64
And if you look
at those stories,
00:07:10.65\00:07:12.65
most of them,
virtually all of them
00:07:12.66\00:07:14.86
come from His
experience, from His knowledge
00:07:14.87\00:07:16.98
base of nature and the
surroundings that they had,
00:07:16.99\00:07:20.92
had enjoyed. A
good example. Okay.
00:07:20.93\00:07:25.89
On this the Sermon on the Mount,
00:07:25.90\00:07:28.10
here they are
gathered on hillside on,
00:07:28.11\00:07:31.69
overlooking the sea.
00:07:31.70\00:07:34.79
And He's got His people waiting
00:07:34.80\00:07:38.21
for these gems of
wisdom and He just looks around
00:07:38.22\00:07:42.20
and takes from
what's there, and says,
00:07:42.21\00:07:46.42
consider the
lilies how they grow.
00:07:46.43\00:07:50.18
Now, I love to ask this question
00:07:50.19\00:07:53.76
when I'm
presenting to audiences.
00:07:53.77\00:07:57.01
In fact, I'll ask the audience,
00:07:57.02\00:07:58.39
hey, what color do
you think that lily was?
00:07:58.40\00:08:02.44
And everybody always
says white, of course.
00:08:02.45\00:08:07.22
Well, there is not a white lily
00:08:07.23\00:08:08.93
that has ever grown
in Palestine. Really?
00:08:08.94\00:08:11.70
In fact, they weren't lilies,
00:08:11.71\00:08:15.01
that's just the way
the translator translated
00:08:15.02\00:08:18.13
the word for whatever
kind of flower it was.
00:08:18.14\00:08:21.60
And it was just as soon
because of these two lilies
00:08:21.61\00:08:24.44
or something that they
were lilies, but in fact,
00:08:24.45\00:08:27.02
that hillside even
today is carpeted with,
00:08:27.03\00:08:32.48
during the flowering season,
00:08:32.49\00:08:34.67
with little
flowers called anemones.
00:08:34.68\00:08:38.90
And those flowers are
just like a carpet there,
00:08:38.91\00:08:41.67
in fact you can get
pressed, people will send a bag
00:08:41.68\00:08:46.12
from Israel when
they go over there,
00:08:46.13\00:08:50.27
they will get little cards
with pressed anemones, yeah.
00:08:50.28\00:08:53.12
And they'll send
those as gift cards
00:08:53.13\00:08:57.33
those and the colors
of those flowers were,
00:08:57.34\00:09:01.27
are red and purple, and
red and purple primarily,
00:09:01.28\00:09:07.12
purple and scarlet.
00:09:07.13\00:09:08.31
And it stands to
reason, because then He says,
00:09:08.32\00:09:10.80
Solomon in all his glory was
not arrayed like one of these.
00:09:10.81\00:09:14.35
And Solomon and the kingly
colors are purple and scarlet.
00:09:14.36\00:09:18.28
If it had been
white, He would have said
00:09:18.29\00:09:20.19
something like
Aaron or the high priest
00:09:20.20\00:09:21.92
or something. He
could have said that.
00:09:21.93\00:09:23.20
But He used the illustration
and then He developed
00:09:23.21\00:09:27.35
the idea of the gospel
around the growth of the plant.
00:09:27.36\00:09:32.95
And that whole
growth of the flower,
00:09:32.96\00:09:36.01
the grain of mustard
seed, the corn planted,
00:09:36.02\00:09:39.33
and the seed is the
word of God He says.
00:09:39.34\00:09:42.65
When He cursed the
leaves or the fig tree,
00:09:42.66\00:09:46.12
because it didn't have
any fruit in a particular way,
00:09:46.13\00:09:51.11
the fig tree has
fruit first and then leaves.
00:09:51.12\00:09:54.42
So if there's leaves, you
would assume it has fruit,
00:09:54.43\00:09:58.15
but there was just
leaves and then it reminds me
00:09:58.16\00:10:00.92
of that song, "Nothing
but leaves for the Master."
00:10:00.93\00:10:03.90
Just our pretensions. Yeah.
00:10:03.91\00:10:05.72
And there was a curse there,
00:10:05.73\00:10:07.24
the hypocrisy of
just pretensions.
00:10:07.25\00:10:10.23
Jesus developed on
that whole plant metaphor,
00:10:10.24\00:10:15.03
the whole plan of salvation,
the whole idea of the gospel.
00:10:15.04\00:10:20.62
So where did He learn that,
00:10:20.63\00:10:23.56
when did He learn
those things as a child.
00:10:23.57\00:10:25.07
Obviously, had
started as a child.
00:10:25.08\00:10:27.13
I wonder how much Mary
must have been out there
00:10:27.14\00:10:28.94
with Him teaching these things.
00:10:28.95\00:10:30.60
Well, I don't know that
Mary taught Him those things,
00:10:30.61\00:10:33.40
I think maybe the
Holy Spirit taught.
00:10:33.41\00:10:35.51
They're in as a lesson for us,
00:10:35.52\00:10:37.79
we are parents, we don't know
00:10:37.80\00:10:39.70
much about how the plant grows
00:10:39.71\00:10:42.19
or these kinds of things
but,the Holy Spirit does.
00:10:42.20\00:10:44.77
Not the average parent anyway.
00:10:44.80\00:10:45.84
Right, but some may,
don't know too much, Kathy.
00:10:45.85\00:10:50.05
You know, we,
sometimes we won a trip,
00:10:50.06\00:10:52.51
we want to make our
children into Wizkids.
00:10:52.52\00:10:57.56
We want them to be
walking encyclopedias
00:10:57.57\00:10:59.73
of facts that we can
showoff to the neighbors.
00:10:59.74\00:11:02.64
That's not what
learning is about,
00:11:02.65\00:11:04.84
learning is
developing ideas and concepts,
00:11:04.85\00:11:08.46
and the idea that there is
a wonder to what God has made,
00:11:08.47\00:11:14.27
and what I can learn.
00:11:14.28\00:11:15.59
And how I can apply it.
00:11:15.60\00:11:17.36
So Jesus learned
the things of nature,
00:11:17.37\00:11:20.89
and then applied
it in His service,
00:11:20.90\00:11:23.91
new ideas of ways and
means flashed into His mind
00:11:23.92\00:11:27.64
with the Holy
Spirit as He studied
00:11:27.65\00:11:29.46
plant life and animal life.
00:11:29.47\00:11:31.53
So, obviously nature
was a very important part
00:11:31.54\00:11:35.10
with His teaching methods.
00:11:35.11\00:11:36.96
I really think so. Yeah.
00:11:36.97\00:11:39.99
Why do you think
it was so, so much?
00:11:40.00\00:11:43.61
Well, it was the original book,
00:11:43.62\00:11:46.15
as we talked about last
time, God wrote two books.
00:11:46.16\00:11:49.25
And He wrote the
book of nature first
00:11:49.26\00:11:51.53
and then when the
devil corrupted the pages
00:11:51.54\00:11:54.53
of that book, God
had to write His words
00:11:54.54\00:11:59.24
down in a little
more tangible way,
00:11:59.25\00:12:01.84
in black and white on parchment.
00:12:01.85\00:12:04.98
And we have the Bible.
00:12:04.99\00:12:06.87
And that, but
that's His second book.
00:12:06.88\00:12:08.92
His very first book
was the book of nature
00:12:08.93\00:12:11.00
which He wrote in the, in
six days by the way. Right.
00:12:11.01\00:12:14.43
And then He gave us
the seventh day to study it
00:12:14.44\00:12:17.58
and develop its themes,
00:12:17.59\00:12:19.32
but we were to
learn of Him through it.
00:12:19.33\00:12:21.35
What about the
lessons that the hearers,
00:12:21.36\00:12:24.14
the hearers of these lessons,
00:12:24.15\00:12:27.57
how these nature parables
00:12:27.58\00:12:29.07
would affect them in the future?
00:12:29.08\00:12:30.64
Well, when you hear a
sermon, what do you remember?
00:12:30.65\00:12:35.68
The stories. And you tell
the stories later that day,
00:12:35.69\00:12:40.35
later that week, you
have this wonderful story
00:12:40.36\00:12:43.14
and the message of the
story is subtly imparted
00:12:43.15\00:12:47.56
to the soul through the story.
00:12:47.57\00:12:50.19
A sermon without
stories, without illustration
00:12:50.20\00:12:52.94
is a really dry
and boring thing,
00:12:52.95\00:12:54.95
and the brain has a
wonderful way of stopping
00:12:54.96\00:12:59.30
attending to
boring and dry things.
00:12:59.31\00:13:02.71
It just shuts down, it
thinks about other things,
00:13:02.72\00:13:06.24
but when its. Unfortunately.
00:13:06.25\00:13:07.30
Well, that's the way we're made.
00:13:07.31\00:13:09.44
So I don't know if
it's unfortunately or not,
00:13:09.45\00:13:11.30
it's just the way we are.
00:13:11.31\00:13:12.64
And if, so when God makes
this natural way of learning,
00:13:12.65\00:13:17.89
the natural way it's got
illustrations all around us.
00:13:17.90\00:13:21.82
And stories appeared to
be Jesus method of teaching,
00:13:21.83\00:13:27.60
I can't do any better than that.
00:13:27.61\00:13:29.82
The master
teacher. That's right.
00:13:29.83\00:13:31.46
I need to use the illustrations,
00:13:31.47\00:13:33.42
the kinds of
illustration to use,
00:13:33.43\00:13:35.26
the kind of, we
call it pedagogy,
00:13:35.27\00:13:37.92
the kind of teaching
techniques that He used.
00:13:37.93\00:13:41.61
And it seems to me if I do that,
00:13:41.62\00:13:44.03
I will be more effective
not because of any pride
00:13:44.04\00:13:47.76
that I have, but
because I'm using
00:13:47.77\00:13:50.80
the model that God gave me.
00:13:50.81\00:13:54.15
It would be
the, the thing to do.
00:13:54.16\00:13:56.25
And it's
naturally motivating, it's,
00:13:56.26\00:14:00.81
it comes from
within, it wells from within.
00:14:00.82\00:14:04.82
Every thing we learn, Kathy,
we learned on the basis of
00:14:04.83\00:14:07.69
what we are already know.
00:14:07.70\00:14:10.13
But there is the
desire to know more,
00:14:10.14\00:14:13.75
there is the desire to
know a little bit more.
00:14:13.76\00:14:15.71
Building on it. Yes.
00:14:15.72\00:14:16.79
Building on what we know.
00:14:16.80\00:14:18.28
In educational jargon
it's called prior knowledge,
00:14:18.29\00:14:23.23
we built on prior knowledge.
00:14:23.24\00:14:25.53
And everybody has a certain
amount of prior knowledge.
00:14:25.54\00:14:28.89
But when we, we are
naturally motivated to learn
00:14:28.90\00:14:32.18
a little bit more,
not a whole lot more,
00:14:32.19\00:14:34.33
that's frightening.
00:14:34.34\00:14:35.97
But just a little
bit, not too little,
00:14:35.98\00:14:38.99
because that's boring.
00:14:39.00\00:14:40.38
But there is natural intrinsic
motivation to be challenged,
00:14:40.39\00:14:44.73
to do something that we can do
00:14:44.74\00:14:47.18
or to learn
something that we can learn
00:14:47.19\00:14:49.37
if it's the right
amount on the basis
00:14:49.38\00:14:51.12
of what we already know.
00:14:51.13\00:14:52.86
And one way to get to that,
00:14:52.87\00:14:58.47
one way to really capture that,
00:14:58.48\00:15:00.34
the parents, teachers,
church workers can use,
00:15:00.35\00:15:05.36
which is almost a
variation on the parable thing,
00:15:05.37\00:15:08.18
when a person starts to
say, starts to tell a story,
00:15:08.19\00:15:13.82
he says, that
reminds me of a story,
00:15:13.83\00:15:16.06
there's something in the
brain that says, I'm ready.
00:15:16.07\00:15:18.98
Okay, yeah.
00:15:18.99\00:15:20.91
You can capture that in
another interesting way.
00:15:20.92\00:15:24.95
You've been alerted.
00:15:24.96\00:15:26.07
Yes, which I
call the mystery box.
00:15:26.08\00:15:28.95
It doesn't have to be a
box, it can be a sack or a bag,
00:15:28.96\00:15:33.13
or you can even put
your hands together,
00:15:33.14\00:15:35.89
what's important is
that you're hiding something
00:15:35.90\00:15:39.51
that people want
to know what it is.
00:15:39.52\00:15:41.74
And that's the
natural motivating force
00:15:41.75\00:15:43.87
that's in all of us.
00:15:43.88\00:15:45.40
I want to know what it is.
00:15:45.41\00:15:46.77
Speaking that curiosity.
00:15:46.78\00:15:47.89
Yeah, and using that you
can hold the interest of kids
00:15:47.90\00:15:53.63
especially for a longtime.
00:15:53.64\00:15:56.03
In fact, I sometimes
have boxes within boxes.
00:15:56.04\00:15:59.28
I know, I know, it
isn't children that get
00:15:59.29\00:16:02.07
so interested and curious,
00:16:02.08\00:16:03.57
adults are just as
curious when you do that.
00:16:03.58\00:16:06.01
And so if you have a
lesson that you want to teach,
00:16:06.02\00:16:09.57
and you have an
illustration that you found that
00:16:09.58\00:16:13.88
will teach it,
you put it in a box.
00:16:13.89\00:16:16.53
And then if you
want to really do it,
00:16:16.54\00:16:18.20
well you put that in
another box and you say,
00:16:18.21\00:16:20.35
boys and girls or
children or Johnny and Mary,
00:16:20.36\00:16:24.05
I have something
special here and you have
00:16:24.06\00:16:27.32
everyone's
attention at that point.
00:16:27.33\00:16:29.24
There's, it doesn't matter.
00:16:29.25\00:16:31.91
They're glued on the
box, what's in the box?
00:16:31.94\00:16:34.12
And they will even listen
for quite a period of time
00:16:34.13\00:16:36.64
while you're
talking, but eventually
00:16:36.65\00:16:39.72
you're gonna have
to open the box. Right.
00:16:39.73\00:16:41.13
And if their
hands don't creep on it
00:16:41.16\00:16:42.40
and try to open it for you.
00:16:42.41\00:16:43.54
That's right. Now, what I,
00:16:43.55\00:16:45.64
if I want to talk longer
00:16:45.65\00:16:47.93
and I don't want
to get to the box yet,
00:16:47.94\00:16:49.83
that's when I'll
have a box in a box.
00:16:49.84\00:16:52.05
So I will open the
box and I've got every eye
00:16:52.06\00:16:55.60
and every attention,
then I'll take the smaller box
00:16:55.61\00:16:58.03
out of that and
I'll just keep talking.
00:16:58.04\00:17:01.20
But eventually something
has to come out of the box
00:17:01.21\00:17:04.65
and it could be alive.
00:17:04.66\00:17:06.47
I have a big box as
you know in shape of a--
00:17:06.48\00:17:09.81
Yes, a Bible. Of a Bible
that I call God's other book
00:17:09.82\00:17:14.17
or God's first book
and I've carried into
00:17:14.18\00:17:16.74
campfires or into
the house with the kids,
00:17:16.75\00:17:20.38
live animals, even live snakes.
00:17:20.39\00:17:22.36
You carried a dead
bird in the one that I saw.
00:17:22.37\00:17:24.97
Yeah, that's true,
because it wasn't alive
00:17:24.98\00:17:26.83
it had been hit by
a car and we had a,
00:17:26.84\00:17:29.14
yes, I remember that.
00:17:29.15\00:17:30.59
And whatever you have in there,
00:17:30.60\00:17:34.10
when it comes out it
has everyone's attention.
00:17:34.11\00:17:38.04
And then you can use
that as an illustration.
00:17:38.05\00:17:41.82
Motivation is a
very interesting thing,
00:17:41.83\00:17:45.82
motivation is
natural and intrinsic,
00:17:45.83\00:17:49.24
it is not, in spite to
what people seem to think,
00:17:49.25\00:17:53.90
extrinsic, external.
00:17:53.91\00:17:56.11
You mean, cultivated. Well--
00:17:56.12\00:17:58.28
Well, it can't be cultivated.
00:17:58.29\00:18:00.22
I don't know, I've
spend a lot of time
00:18:00.23\00:18:02.23
studying motivation and
the most powerful form of
00:18:02.24\00:18:07.88
motivation that
anybody knows is that which
00:18:07.89\00:18:10.97
wells up from
within, the desire to know,
00:18:10.98\00:18:14.00
the desire to do.
00:18:14.01\00:18:15.87
And an interesting discovery
over the last few years,
00:18:15.88\00:18:20.80
even with heavy research
to support it says that,
00:18:20.81\00:18:24.47
when you provide rewards
as a motivating techniquev
00:18:24.48\00:18:25.47
or punishment as a
motivating technique.
00:18:27.99\00:18:31.00
You actually reduce the amount
of motivation that you get,
00:18:31.01\00:18:36.51
you actually, if
you continue to reward,
00:18:36.52\00:18:39.72
the power of the motivation
continues to be reduce
00:18:39.73\00:18:43.15
until it goes away entirely.
00:18:43.16\00:18:45.30
If you provide punishment
and you just keep punishing
00:18:45.31\00:18:48.43
and punishing the
power of the motivation
00:18:48.44\00:18:51.20
or the power of the punishment
to get the motivation,
00:18:51.21\00:18:54.03
gets reduced and
reduced until it goes away.
00:18:54.04\00:18:57.09
This is sure studies.
00:18:57.10\00:18:58.41
Absolutely,
there is no question,
00:18:58.42\00:19:00.53
you read a, if you
want to read some books
00:19:00.54\00:19:02.19
I can tell you those
books "Punished by Rewards,"
00:19:02.20\00:19:05.51
or it is a good
one by Alfie Kohn.
00:19:05.52\00:19:09.62
Where years of
research has demonstrated
00:19:09.63\00:19:13.82
beyond the shadow of a doubt
that what is truly motivating
00:19:13.83\00:19:18.69
is inspiring the
heart, inspiring the mind
00:19:18.70\00:19:21.55
with the natural environmental
influences that occur.
00:19:21.56\00:19:25.29
And that's the
way our brain is made,
00:19:25.30\00:19:28.42
that's the way our
mind is put together.
00:19:28.43\00:19:33.41
And nature, the things of nature
00:19:33.42\00:19:36.81
are among the most
highly motivating aspects
00:19:36.82\00:19:41.99
of our environment,
why else would there be
00:19:42.00\00:19:45.55
such popular
subjects for movies,
00:19:45.56\00:19:50.92
for advertising
spots on television,
00:19:50.93\00:19:55.43
for stories, animal stories.
00:19:55.44\00:20:00.16
So even the enemy can
use the real motivating.
00:20:00.17\00:20:02.75
Oh, absolutely.
00:20:02.76\00:20:03.99
The real factor for motivating.
00:20:04.00\00:20:07.17
Absolutely. Well, you know,
00:20:07.18\00:20:09.57
I suppose then the
parents' duty would be
00:20:09.58\00:20:11.77
then to seek really to
know the child to the point
00:20:11.78\00:20:15.44
where they can really see
what they're motivated on.
00:20:15.45\00:20:17.61
But, Jim, that's
not like math, math,
00:20:17.62\00:20:19.58
you know, sometimes
you just have to grit
00:20:19.59\00:20:22.48
your teeth and bear down and--
00:20:22.49\00:20:24.94
Well, not really. Right.
00:20:24.95\00:20:27.18
That's only true
after you've passed
00:20:27.19\00:20:29.66
the teachable
moment, so to speak.
00:20:29.67\00:20:31.71
Well, what about the
multiplication tables
00:20:31.72\00:20:33.61
that's way down there.
00:20:33.62\00:20:35.01
Multiplication
tables are fun to learn
00:20:35.02\00:20:37.47
at a certain stage in life,
because they're a challenge.
00:20:37.48\00:20:42.31
I've had kids learn the
entire multiplication tables
00:20:42.32\00:20:45.15
in three, one hour settings
00:20:45.16\00:20:48.77
when they had been
trying for three years
00:20:48.78\00:20:51.21
and hadn't been
able to learn them.
00:20:51.22\00:20:52.56
So capitalize on
the interest moment.
00:20:52.57\00:20:56.07
Yeah, and the prior knowledge,
00:20:56.08\00:20:57.57
just building on what
they know and asking them
00:20:57.58\00:21:00.01
only to learn a little
new, a new little bit at a time.
00:21:00.02\00:21:03.99
Now we're getting
into a different subject,
00:21:04.00\00:21:05.76
but it's one that's of
great interest to everyone
00:21:05.77\00:21:09.26
and it's one that
I learned actually
00:21:09.27\00:21:11.38
from the study of nature.
00:21:11.39\00:21:13.52
Well, are we to
just teach our children
00:21:13.53\00:21:18.14
only when they feel like
it, when they're motivated?
00:21:18.15\00:21:20.73
Oh, no, no, but the most,
00:21:20.74\00:21:24.17
there is a
discipline involved in ordered
00:21:24.18\00:21:30.05
curricular presentation.
00:21:30.06\00:21:31.70
And we do have to learn
to live in--By a schedule.
00:21:31.71\00:21:34.91
Yeah, there is no
question about that.
00:21:34.92\00:21:37.80
But there is an
easier way to learn
00:21:37.81\00:21:40.32
that as the child develops,
if you wait till your child's
00:21:40.33\00:21:44.60
a teenager and then
try to impose a schedule
00:21:44.61\00:21:47.03
or try to teach them the
00:21:47.04\00:21:48.01
multiplication
factor, forget it.
00:21:48.02\00:21:51.32
It has to be done
when the children are young
00:21:51.33\00:21:54.81
and when the brains
are naturally prepared
00:21:54.82\00:21:57.59
to learn those kinds of things.
00:21:57.60\00:21:58.98
Unless they're motivated
at a latter day if there is
00:21:58.99\00:22:01.66
some sort of other reason
00:22:01.67\00:22:03.18
that's caused
them to be motivated.
00:22:03.19\00:22:04.30
Yeah, like a
boyfriend or a girlfriend.
00:22:04.31\00:22:05.48
Right, right,
that's what I mean,
00:22:05.49\00:22:06.46
some other
motivation that's caused them.
00:22:06.47\00:22:08.06
Yes, but that also I
have to admit is intrinsic,
00:22:08.07\00:22:12.45
you know, that's a
naturally emerging motivation,
00:22:12.46\00:22:15.61
it maybe an
extrinsic individual,
00:22:15.62\00:22:18.61
but it's what comes
from within that causes
00:22:18.62\00:22:20.89
me to be attracted in that way.
00:22:20.90\00:22:23.50
So is it really that easy?
00:22:23.51\00:22:25.48
Yeah, it really is
that easy, it's that ease,
00:22:25.49\00:22:28.62
no, it's not that
easy, it's that simple. Okay.
00:22:28.63\00:22:32.79
But we have complicated
things like motivation,
00:22:32.80\00:22:35.78
we have complicated things
like learning and teaching,
00:22:35.79\00:22:39.61
we've made it more difficult,
00:22:39.62\00:22:41.95
because we've tried
to order it in terms of
00:22:41.96\00:22:46.86
putting
everybody in the same mold.
00:22:46.87\00:22:49.29
If things like
grades, putting everybody
00:22:49.30\00:22:54.05
in the first grade. Right.
00:22:54.06\00:22:55.08
Well, the brain
doesn't work that way,
00:22:55.09\00:22:56.76
there is nothing
first grade about the brain,
00:22:56.77\00:23:00.28
the brain learns on the
basis of what it already knows.
00:23:00.29\00:23:03.86
And every kids in the first
grade is at a different place.
00:23:03.87\00:23:08.21
When you go out into the woods,
00:23:08.22\00:23:09.99
the thing that is
neat about that is that
00:23:10.00\00:23:12.42
it doesn't matter
what the curriculum is.
00:23:12.43\00:23:15.70
One very young child is
gonna be just fascinated
00:23:15.74\00:23:20.39
by a butterfly, an
older child is gonna wanna
00:23:20.40\00:23:24.31
see something
more in that butterfly,
00:23:24.32\00:23:26.84
is gonna wanna know
why they open their wings
00:23:26.85\00:23:29.38
the way they do, why
sometimes they fold the wings
00:23:29.39\00:23:32.51
the way they do and
what are the physical aspects
00:23:32.52\00:23:36.74
of heat and
light that govern that.
00:23:36.75\00:23:40.43
Well, that's the way
it should be for older one
00:23:40.44\00:23:42.39
they should have
more analytical thinking,
00:23:42.40\00:23:44.32
more interest in deeper things.
00:23:44.33\00:23:47.02
Yes, but if you try to
put that in the form of
00:23:47.03\00:23:49.41
a curriculum when all the kids
are learning the same thing.
00:23:49.42\00:23:53.24
Supposing you're trying to teach
00:23:53.25\00:23:54.71
the more advanced
material to individuals
00:23:54.72\00:23:57.18
who never learned
the more simplistic?
00:23:57.19\00:23:59.89
Then you're taking
the prior knowledge
00:23:59.90\00:24:01.87
and trying to
make too big a job,
00:24:01.88\00:24:03.47
you've lost the motivation.
00:24:03.48\00:24:05.32
The motivation has to be in
00:24:05.33\00:24:07.25
little small
increments at a time.
00:24:07.26\00:24:09.94
It says, they
have to grow by steps.
00:24:09.95\00:24:13.01
That's why individual
learning is preferable
00:24:13.02\00:24:17.08
to large group learning.
00:24:17.09\00:24:18.79
That's why families
can operate a school
00:24:18.80\00:24:22.03
and end up being more efficient,
00:24:22.04\00:24:24.61
more effective
than large schools.
00:24:24.62\00:24:27.84
So, how important now then is
00:24:27.85\00:24:29.52
nature study to
the family life today?
00:24:29.53\00:24:33.06
I think it's
critical, if I had to say
00:24:33.07\00:24:36.61
there is one thing
that families could do
00:24:36.62\00:24:40.16
from early childhood, just one.
00:24:40.17\00:24:43.79
You know, remember
to do that one thing,
00:24:43.80\00:24:46.58
it would be to
provide the children
00:24:46.59\00:24:49.70
with an environment that
was as natural as possible,
00:24:49.71\00:24:55.56
and allow them their
curiosity to be stimulated.
00:24:55.57\00:25:00.68
And encourage them to
pursue those questions,
00:25:00.69\00:25:06.72
the quest for information.
00:25:06.73\00:25:08.83
Just allow them to develop.
00:25:08.84\00:25:10.48
In school we call it
project base learning,
00:25:10.49\00:25:14.06
and it's, in some
respects, the latest thing.
00:25:14.07\00:25:17.95
Project base. Project base.
00:25:17.96\00:25:18.96
Is that something
like that unit studies?
00:25:18.97\00:25:20.66
No. What's a project base?
00:25:20.67\00:25:22.64
A project base is where
you have an idea or a question
00:25:22.65\00:25:25.89
that you want to
answer and you gather
00:25:25.90\00:25:28.00
the students together,
two, three or one student
00:25:28.01\00:25:30.66
or more, and say,
how should we solve
00:25:30.67\00:25:34.18
this problem, this is a project?
00:25:34.19\00:25:36.14
Okay. So, we're all
gonna work on this together.
00:25:36.15\00:25:37.26
You work together as a team.
00:25:37.27\00:25:38.43
Yes, cooperative
learning is another term.
00:25:38.44\00:25:41.73
And how do we solve the problem.
00:25:41.74\00:25:43.57
And so in the process
of solving the problem
00:25:43.58\00:25:46.18
by the way, you may have
to learn some multiplication,
00:25:46.19\00:25:49.11
you may actually
have to apply some,
00:25:49.12\00:25:51.19
which then people say,
kids will say, oh, wow!
00:25:51.20\00:25:54.77
I just figured out why
it's important to know that,
00:25:54.78\00:25:57.97
because I'm
gonna need to use it.
00:25:57.98\00:26:00.59
So the motivation is there,
the levels of prior knowledge
00:26:00.63\00:26:06.39
are provided for and the
guidance that is required
00:26:06.40\00:26:12.08
then doesn't have to
have so much expertise,
00:26:12.09\00:26:14.70
just encouragement.
00:26:14.71\00:26:16.58
The kind of encouragement
00:26:16.59\00:26:18.11
that my father used
to say for example was.
00:26:18.12\00:26:21.14
Well, you know, I
bet you can do that.
00:26:21.15\00:26:24.10
Yes. And he had no
idea how, I bet you can.
00:26:24.11\00:26:28.45
Did you ever say,
oh, I don't think I can?
00:26:28.46\00:26:30.57
No, not because
from my youngest days,
00:26:30.58\00:26:32.84
I can remember my mom and dad
encouraging me and my brother
00:26:32.85\00:26:37.47
to do whatever
we felt we could do.
00:26:37.48\00:26:39.88
And they would even
encourage us to do things
00:26:39.89\00:26:41.97
beyond what we felt we could do,
00:26:41.98\00:26:43.98
and find out we weren't ready,
00:26:43.99\00:26:46.58
then there wasn't any,
we didn't get a F grade
00:26:46.59\00:26:48.84
for it if we
weren't ready for it.
00:26:48.85\00:26:50.18
We just would say,
oops, I'm not ready for that,
00:26:50.19\00:26:53.26
I can't do that,
I'll try that next time.
00:26:53.27\00:26:55.29
The natural recognition.
00:26:55.30\00:26:56.44
Yeah, so it
worked out pretty well.
00:26:56.45\00:27:00.04
Parents, families together
00:27:01.33\00:27:06.51
in a natural environment,
00:27:06.52\00:27:08.39
allowing the
natural environment,
00:27:08.40\00:27:10.77
natural learning is the
kind of learning that is,
00:27:10.78\00:27:15.80
is the most motivating.
00:27:15.81\00:27:17.46
The kind that
just occurs naturally
00:27:17.47\00:27:20.47
and it's not easy
to do always because
00:27:20.48\00:27:23.94
we have to unlearn
what we've already learned.
00:27:23.95\00:27:28.67
Well, Dr. Tucker, you will
come back again, won't you?
00:27:28.68\00:27:31.10
Gladly. Oh, I hope so,
00:27:31.11\00:27:32.69
it's interesting to me and I'm
sure it's interesting to you.
00:27:32.70\00:27:35.68
I want to read to you
though just one sentence.
00:27:35.69\00:27:38.31
May the mother take time
for the study of God's word
00:27:38.32\00:27:41.78
and take time to go with
the children into the fields,
00:27:41.79\00:27:45.03
and learn of God
through the beauty of His works.
00:27:45.04\00:27:49.14
And if you want to get
more information on how-to's,
00:27:49.15\00:27:51.74
I'm sure you can
write or call 3ABN.
00:27:51.75\00:27:53.96
And tell them what
you've seen here on
00:27:53.97\00:27:56.42
"Thinking about Home." Join us.
00:27:56.43\00:27:58.27