Participants: James Tucker, Kathy Matthews
Series Code: TAH
Program Code: TAH000099
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00:30 Hi, I'm Kathy Matthews
00:32 and this is "Thinking About Home." 00:34 And I'm glad to see you back again. 00:37 We're going to be talking today about family life naturally. 00:40 And since we're suppose to be "Thinking About Home." 00:44 Have you ever considered where you live? 00:46 What your setting, your home is in. 00:48 Today, we're gonna be talking to Dr. James Tucker 00:50 from Andrews University, Jim. 00:52 Glad to be here. I'm glad you're here. 00:54 And I'm thinking of the first time that we met, Jim, 01:00 do you remember the setting that we were in? 01:02 Yes, I was invited to speak 01:04 at a family camp meeting in Washington State. 01:09 And by the way I like family camp meetings. 01:12 And this one was geared toward the family, wasn't it. 01:13 That's right, the whole thing. Yeah. 01:15 In fact, I don't even speak at camp meetings anymore 01:17 unless the whole family is together. 01:19 The thing I like about it was that the whole family 01:21 was together for every meeting, right. 01:23 And it was out in nature, it was a camp ground 01:27 kind of setting where everybody met together. 01:30 You didn't take the kids away from the-- 01:32 from the parents, so that we could have our time 01:35 and you would just stop may be sitting the children. 01:36 No, absolutely not, that's exactly what I mean, 01:39 that a whole family was together 01:41 and we did nature things for the whole weekend. 01:44 And I was thinking though in particular, 01:47 something that our daughter did to you. 01:49 Oh, on the Sabbath afternoon hike. Yes. 01:52 Where we were going out and checking what things 01:54 that we could find and we found some edible fruit. 01:57 Rose hips, I think was it, or something like that. 01:59 Rose hips, yes, it was, I've forgotten that. 02:01 And was it Rachael? No, it was Serra. 02:04 It was the older one. 02:05 And Serra said, when I was demonstrating, 02:08 it could be eaten and I've eaten and she said, 02:10 you shouldn't be doing that that's eating between meals. 02:13 And I really no what to say, you know, 02:15 I was modeling inappropriate behavior 02:17 as far as she was concerned. 02:19 Yeah, she thought so. Yeah. 02:21 She kind of took you by surprise. Yeah. 02:22 Serra can do that sometimes. 02:24 She is little more subdued than she used to be though. 02:28 Jim, we're gonna be talking about family life naturally 02:32 and this is something that you've been talking about 02:34 a great deal being at, Andrews University, 02:36 and you go out to speak in lot of different places. 02:40 And I think you must have a burden 02:42 for family life naturally, the natural setting. 02:45 So what kind of environment, do you think 02:48 the first family was created for? 02:51 Well, and I think that's the place to begin. 02:53 We are naturally created by God for a certain setting. 02:58 He put us in a garden. That wasn't an accident. 03:00 If He'd have wanted us to live in a city, 03:02 He would have created a city and put us there. 03:04 The city was something that came later 03:06 and some of us can't, you know, 03:07 can't help with the fact that we live in the city. 03:10 But at least we can create the environment 03:13 later or in some other way. 03:14 But our natural environment, our natural inclination 03:18 is to be in a--in a garden, in a field, in a forest, 03:23 in a wood, some place where we can be 03:26 as close to the creator as possible. 03:29 You know, obviously, God, doesn't make any mistakes 03:31 when He did that as all else that He did. 03:36 He had a plan for them to be in a special place. 03:39 Why do you think that it was such a good plan? 03:43 Well, He created us, and then He created the environment 03:47 to allow us to develop in the way 03:49 that He wanted us to develop. 03:51 But I think as an educator, more importantly 03:55 He surrounded us with learning experiences. 03:59 And He put His truths, His character, 04:03 His love, His power, 04:05 everything He wanted us to learn all around. 04:08 So that it could be like another book as we often say, 04:12 God's two books. Yes. 04:13 In fact it was his original book. 04:15 Well, I remember--you know, the first time 04:17 I ever heard that was through you that you felt like 04:20 His first book was nature, not the written book 04:23 that we have in the Bible, that you feel like 04:25 His first book was nature. Well, that's true. 04:27 The God wrote two books. 04:29 The Book of Nature was the only one that, 04:31 Adam and Eve had and their teacher by the way was Jesus. 04:35 And I like to say that angels were the teacher's aids. 04:38 I suppose they were. And the materials of nature, 04:40 the things of nature, the animals, the birds, 04:42 the stars, the clouds everything were the text book 04:47 and they were totally illustrated. 04:49 There were no text as we think of today. 04:53 It was just all pictures. 04:57 Well, you know, he had His government, He was, 05:00 it sort of calming environment. 05:05 He had His government for them. 05:09 How can we come as close to God's plan today? 05:14 Well, I don't think that there is any difference 05:17 in God's plan then and now. You don't think so, ah? 05:21 No, I think the plan is the same. 05:23 Why have we come to what we've come to then? 05:25 Because of artificial excitement. Yeah. 05:29 That there is a devil you know. Yeah. 05:31 And when he came into the garden, it was his plan 05:37 to get man away from the original plan. 05:42 And he did that by lying, by creating 05:45 an artificial sense of security. 05:48 An artificial sense of what was fun, 05:51 or what was wanted or he lied. 05:54 He said, if you do what I want you to do, 05:57 you will be like God, etcetera. 06:00 And throughout history, the devil has been saying 06:03 that to man, come over here and enjoy these excitements, 06:07 these experiences, these amusements, 06:10 these entertainments and you'll have a good time. 06:15 And all of that is pulling us away from the plan God, 06:19 instituted where it's nonetheless exciting, 06:23 it's nonetheless inspiring. 06:25 But it's a natural way that meets 06:28 the natural inclinations of the mind, 06:31 it doesn't stimulate too much, 06:33 it doesn't stimulate too little, it's just right. 06:37 Naturally motivating. Yes. As source for learning. 06:41 We are, we are born with a desire to learn, 06:44 that's inbred, it's genetic. 06:47 You can't--you don't have to teach a child to talk. 06:53 You just talk to the child and the child learns to talk. 06:56 You don't have to teach a child to walk, 06:58 they're born with the motivation to do it. 07:01 So you just encourage it. 07:03 You provide them with an environment that allows 07:06 them to do it and then encourage it 07:09 and they do it naturally. Learning is like that. 07:12 We're naturally born to learn. We're naturally want to. 07:16 It's unnatural to have things get in the way of learning. 07:22 And humans are really good, at putting barriers 07:26 in front of learning, or keeping kids from learning, 07:30 what they want to learn, when they want to learn it. 07:34 I remember you were talking to me one time about that. 07:37 And you were telling me that it is possible 07:41 to stifle talent and giftedness. 07:46 And that makes me think of this barrier, 07:49 the humans are good at putting barriers in the way. 07:53 And we do that by when the child says, 07:57 I want to learn about this. 08:00 Which is natural by the way when you're out on a walk 08:03 in nature, or in the yard, or in the garden. 08:06 And the child will find something 08:07 and they will say tell me about this. 08:10 And it's so natural to be able to do that. 08:12 My mother was really good at that. 08:14 She would say, well let's go find a book. 08:15 Let's go find the encyclopedia, or the dictionary, 08:18 or a guide book and look that up. 08:20 My father was always the one who found interesting things 08:23 and my mother was the one that helped us figure out 08:26 what it wasn't that, that put together-- 08:28 a kind of a family arrangement for us. 08:31 But supposing you were to say 08:34 when the child is out in the walk, what is this? 08:38 And you say, well, don't know 08:40 that's not our curriculum for today. 08:43 That's not what we're studying today. Right. 08:45 That's we're gonna study that next year. 08:48 What does that do to motivation? 08:50 I want to study it today, that's you know, 08:53 the teachable moment is what it's often called. 08:55 Golden moments for teaching. 08:57 Now when I'm motivated to learn it, 08:59 it's the time to learn it. 09:01 So why don't I--I can only do it now, 09:03 so don't stop me from doing that. 09:05 Now does that mean there shouldn't be a plan 09:07 or an order to curriculum. 09:08 No, not at all, but it should be flexible. 09:11 And that's another thing that nature is, 09:13 you never know, what's gonna happen. 09:14 When you walk outside into the garden, 09:16 or when you walk outside into the woods, you never know, 09:20 what's gonna be there 09:21 and that's one of the exciting things about. 09:23 So we should emulate, God's plan by getting out. 09:28 As often as possible. And being a family. 09:31 With the family and doing just what comes naturally 09:34 as the phrase goes, just letting it emerged. 09:38 It's something like taking time to smell the roses. 09:40 Yes, very much so. 09:41 You know, you were talking one time to me about your dad 09:45 and some of the techniques he used. 09:47 Can you tell me a little bit about that? 09:49 The one that was my favorite and the one 09:51 that he always inspired us with was what we've refer to. 09:56 Well, he would-- We would be walking out 09:57 my brother Dean and I would be walking through the woods, 10:00 or the fields with my mother and father. 10:03 And we would all be exploring in our various ways 10:06 and my father would come upon something. 10:07 It might be just a strange looking rock, 10:10 or it might be a tree formation, or something, 10:12 his eyes were always looking for 10:14 what he called something different. 10:17 And he would say-- That's the part I remembered 10:18 is all way-- the way you said that, 10:20 because you're from the south right, originally. 10:22 Something different. Something different. 10:23 Yeah, and he would say hey, Jim and Dean, 10:26 here is something different and he wouldn't know 10:28 what it was, no, what he particularly care what it was. 10:31 It was fascinating, it was different, 10:34 it was unique, it was a natural phenomenon 10:37 that he'd never seen before 10:38 and he wanted immediately to share it. 10:40 So, he'd say come on-- Probably by saying it 10:42 that way to you, you suppose his tone 10:44 or the peek curiosity, to peek the curiosity 10:47 of your boys, oh, what's the, 10:49 this new something different thing that he has found. 10:51 Of course but it wasn't that anything he did 10:54 to try to get us interested 10:57 and it was no plan of his, he was interested. 11:00 It was, it was-- Because he was interested. 11:03 Yes, he was interested himself. 11:05 And it was, it just caused us to be 11:10 interested in too, interested too. 11:13 Well, you have a story of maybe something in particular 11:16 that your father may have found or? 11:19 Yes, it started, when in fact 11:23 I was very young, four, five years old. 11:25 And I remember the mantle of our house 11:30 over the fire place had the alphabet. 11:33 I learned the alphabet in sticks, in twigs 11:39 and on Sabbath afternoon walks and other times 11:41 when he was working outside because we lived on a farm. 11:45 He would find letters of the alphabet in the way 11:50 the twigs were arranged. 11:52 For example, it would be easy to find a "Y" 11:55 or a "V" because of twig would come up in branch. 11:59 But it was hard to find some of the letters, 12:03 but he would keep looking, keep looking and so on 12:05 the Sabbath afternoon at several times I can remember. 12:08 Oh, here's an "A" or here's an "N". 12:13 And he would cut it carefully off and take it home 12:17 and put it on the mantle and that's the way 12:19 I learned the alphabet. 12:20 Oh, that sounds like a lot of fun, you know, 12:22 I don't remember that story. 12:23 I don't remember you telling that at the family camp meeting. 12:25 You may have, but I don't remember it 12:26 and I think that's interesting. 12:28 We never did that, we did other things. 12:31 But you have, Naming Game, what do you mean by that? 12:34 Well, the Naming Game is one that I invented 12:37 with a group of students. 12:41 And that's where we play, Adam and Eve. 12:43 Adam and Eve-- Oh, oh, I see, okay. 12:45 Adam was told and you remember playing 12:47 we did that at on the family-- On, on the walking. 12:50 Yes, Adam was told to name everything. 12:53 What an exciting opportunity. 12:55 There was no field guide, he couldn't look it up. 12:58 And one of the things that this illustrates for me, 13:02 I'll comeback to the game in a minute. 13:03 But it's important that families understand 13:06 or know, that it isn't necessary to know 13:10 the names of everything, to appreciate them. 13:13 Adam didn't know the names of anything 13:15 until he name them, so there was no field guide. 13:19 It isn't necessary to know the biology of things 13:21 and how everything works that's the discovery part. 13:24 When Jesus was out on the hillside 13:26 and He said considered the lilies, he didn't just say oh, 13:29 look at the pretty flowers, he said consider-- 13:32 which has another thought about the word. 13:35 Think about it, how they grow. 13:38 Oh, there is more to this than just pretty flowers. 13:41 There is a whole thing here. 13:42 So, and the Naming Game, take the family out 13:46 and you find something that you don't know the name of. 13:50 And we say well, let's name it, that's play 13:54 we're like this is the Garden of Eden. 13:56 And we're Adam and Eve, and you're the, you're Seth, 13:59 and Enos or Abel or what are we gonna called this 14:06 and then you find out well, 14:09 what is it take to name something. 14:12 Well, you could name it for a characteristic, 14:14 you could name it for a time of the year, or something 14:17 that it reminds you off, anything you want to. 14:21 And once you name it as a family, 14:23 it becomes your special name for that thing. 14:27 And it's very easy Kathy to move from that 14:30 to another name, my name written in the Book of Life. 14:36 So you're talking about relating it 14:38 to heavenly experiences or-- And all of these things 14:40 should be--and that's why God put it up there. 14:43 So that we can relate immediately to-- 14:45 To biblical truths. To the truths of eternity 14:48 and how aren't--in the name, you know, 14:51 is my name written there is a song you want to sing. 14:53 Yes, yes. 14:54 And God knows everyone's name 14:56 and there's my name in His book. 14:59 Lot to talk about. Yeah. 15:00 It would bring up a lot of subjects to talk about. Yeah. 15:03 And the fact that this particular thing is special, 15:05 because we named it, then I'm special to God, 15:10 He is--you know, we're gonna have a new name 15:14 and He is--His name is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. 15:17 You can take any little thing of nature like that 15:20 and expand it into a spiritual reality or truth. 15:23 And should just to talk about it as nature, right? 15:27 Yes. It would be interesting, but to relate it 15:30 to a biblical truth, how far more reaching in their lives 15:33 and when they comeback or remember it later 15:35 or maybe they have children, they can relate to truths 15:38 and have great memories, as how they began to learn 15:41 that truths through God's creation. 15:43 Yes, and if we don't do that, then it just biology lesson. 15:46 Yeah, right, that's what I mean, it's just a lesson 15:48 which is nice, but it's not what really was 15:51 intended in considering the lilies, that's right. 15:53 It's not the reason, God, put us in the garden. 15:56 The reason He put us there, 15:57 so that we could learn about Him. Amen. 16:00 Through the things that He created. 16:02 You know, I, we did the Sabbath afternoon game. 16:06 And we would find things that reminded us 16:09 of something biblically, We would do it 16:11 kind of reverse a color of a leaf, 16:14 we had to come up with, 16:15 or something that reminded us of a Bible story. 16:18 And then for worship that evening for vespers 16:21 that was what we did for vespers each one had to name 16:24 what it reminded them off. 16:26 And we did that over, over again, they're never 16:28 tired of that, even after they got somewhat older. 16:33 Those kinds of things in the head, 16:35 I think deep in the biblical truths. 16:39 Well, and then there is the reverse of that two, 16:41 there are biblical truths that have to be 16:43 that where God used either through an author 16:46 or through Jesus himself, an illustration like 16:52 Proverbs 6:6, "Go to the ant, O sluggard, 16:55 consider her ways, and be wise." 16:57 That is an-- that is a scientific truth 17:00 all the ants you see scurrying around 17:02 doing all the work are females. 17:05 There are, now there is-- That's interesting. 17:07 That's right, all the ants that do the work are females, 17:12 that there are the soldier ants, 17:13 there are the doctor ants that all the ones 17:17 that do the work of the females 17:18 consider her ways and be wise. 17:20 Well, you really can't get the full impact of that text 17:27 unless you observe ants and see how 17:30 really incredibly industrious they are. 17:34 Then that text just comes alive. 17:36 You know, that very text is one that we've used, 17:40 but not for her as a part of it. 17:42 It's the later part that says that she has no overseer, 17:47 or ruler to get her to do work. 17:50 In another words its self government 17:52 that we were teaching from that, 17:54 that she didn't need someone to tell her what to do. 17:58 She was able to do it. That's right. 18:00 And so we use that as a biblical lesson, 18:02 connected it to the ants, on that verse. 18:05 It's perfect. Yes, it is. 18:07 What other things did you do? 18:09 Well, I remember my father found a--we were walking 18:12 one Sabbath afternoon on a hillside 18:14 or a mountainside in Kentucky, when I was a lad 18:20 and my father found of a big rock 18:24 that look like a fossil fish. 18:26 And we ended up it, we still don't know 18:31 whether it was a fossil fish, it was too large 18:33 and it didn't have scales or anything that would help 18:38 it was just in the shape of a fish. 18:41 And we spent all the rest of the afternoon, 18:46 trying to figure out what that was or relate to it 18:50 in someway and I remember that experience as a boy, 18:57 it was-- it all, you know, 18:58 it was just one Sabbath afternoon. 19:01 But I remember it, I'll remember it 19:03 as long as I live. It's printed there. 19:05 And it wasn't anything, 19:08 nothing particularly came of it. 19:11 But it was a time when all of us were together 19:14 gathered around that rock trying to figure that out 19:17 together, what is it? 19:19 Look at this, look at that, what do you think? 19:23 You're suppose its this, or you're suppose is that. 19:25 Those are what we in education 19:28 call higher order thinking skills. Really. 19:31 Where you construct meaning from the experience itself. 19:36 Now my father and mother were not trained educators. 19:42 But they were incredibly powerful educating 19:46 individuals for us as children, 19:48 because they just ask questions, 19:51 they just develop ideas, anybody can do that. 19:56 You don't have to know answers, and lots of times 19:59 we get hung up on what the right answers are 20:03 when you know, the Bible is full of answers 20:07 to which there are no questions. 20:09 I mean, that questions to which there are no answers-- 20:12 Yeah, okay, well, you have these eye wonder statements, 20:16 so that come out of what you're just telling me. 20:18 Would you like to expand a little more 20:19 on the eye wonder statements? Well, that's a technique. 20:23 If parents feel uncomfortable about you know, 20:25 I just don't know, how I would do that. 20:28 Well, there is the phrase I wonder, just start a phrase 20:34 I'll be afraid to do that. 20:36 Start the phrase with I wonder what would have happened if. 20:42 Or I wonder how that got here, or I wonder what it is. 20:48 I wonder what's gonna happen next. 20:51 I wonder what was here before this was here. 20:58 Just that a wonder statement causes the child and kids 21:02 love that, they don't, there are not bound 21:05 by our adult feelings of need to know the answers. 21:10 They are able to soar. 21:12 In fact kids, little kids especially are full of wonder 21:18 and we unfortunately. Want to shut them up. 21:21 Yes, and we, we keep, we call it channeling their, 21:26 their creativity into productive, 21:29 in productive ways, but isn't always. 21:31 Sometimes it's just shutting it down, let them wonder. 21:36 But always bring them back to God. 21:39 I wonder what God was thinking 21:42 when He created this maybe a daisy. 21:46 Why did He put white petals 21:47 around a yellow circle in the middle? 21:50 And then why did he create to be, and if you happen 21:54 to know the answer to this, it's kind of neat to know 21:58 that the bee sees different colors than we do. 22:01 And the color in the center of the daisy 22:04 is the focal point for the bee, 22:06 so that the bee go straight to the center 22:09 in the ray of petals is simply a-- 22:14 an outside frame for the focal point 22:18 where the polyp, or the nectar of the flower would be. 22:22 So God put all of those things into a package 22:25 that's integrated with all kinds of life. 22:30 You can do so much with that. 22:33 You have some other techniques or something else 22:37 that you can offer us in statements, 22:38 how about meeting the creator, 22:42 the I wonder statements observe 22:43 how nature operates and talk about. 22:46 Let's talk about how to observe more about 22:50 how nature operates, can you do that? 22:52 Well, a good friend of mine, Elder Larry Cavanas, 22:58 at a summer camp once, did something which 23:01 I have always felt was just phenomenal 23:05 and its something that any family could do. 23:07 But I remember this. The sticky bun. 23:10 Yes, the sticky bun, you know the crumbs, yeah. 23:12 He had they have sticky buns for, for breakfast 23:15 and he hadn't finished his and he was walking 23:19 across the camp ground with a whole bunch of kids with him 23:22 and he said, he wanted to get rid of the sticky bun 23:26 but he didn't want to litter. 23:28 And so he needed to find a way of getting-- 23:33 and the trashcan with some distance away 23:35 and he could have gone there with it and he would have, 23:37 except he thought of an idea. 23:39 And it was wonderful, he said, boys and girls, 23:43 let's see I wonder how long this sticky bun will last. 23:49 See these ants, they are all over here, 23:50 they are looking for food. 23:52 And this sticky bun would just be wonderful, 23:54 they would love this, don't you think? 23:57 And oh, yeah, they would. 23:58 So I'm gonna put it right down here beside the trail. 24:02 And I want you guys to keep watching 24:04 that sticky bun all day long. 24:06 Oh, he just wanted them to keep busy, I'm sure he would. 24:08 Well, that may have been true, but it really worked. 24:11 It was highly motivated and he said, you watch 24:14 that sticky bun and let's see how long it takes for the ants 24:18 to get rid of the sticky bun in the natural kind of way 24:22 that animals and creatures 24:25 clean up their, their environment. 24:27 And these kids kept all day long kept running back 24:30 to check the sticky bun, until it was all gone 24:34 and then they check the time told, 24:36 Elder Cavanas, the answer to his question. 24:39 Now he set up an activity with just an I wonder statement, 24:43 just a sticky bun and I wonder and some ants. 24:46 He didn't know what kind of ants, he didn't know 24:48 anything about particularly about the biology of ants, 24:52 but he set it all up and he orchestrated it 24:55 in a learning motivation experience 24:58 that I suspect some of those kids still remember. 25:01 Yeah, I'm sure they do. 25:03 Well, we're going to go to the end now. 25:05 Is there some recapping that you can do for us, go over. 25:08 These things, or something special 25:10 that we haven't talked about yet. 25:11 Let's go back to the point that God, put us in a garden. 25:14 God, put us in a natural environment, 25:17 He created our brains, He created everything 25:20 compatible for that environment. 25:22 When we get away from that environment 25:24 everything is kind of jangling and artificial. 25:27 And we find it's useful to get back to that environment 25:32 for refreshment, but it's useful to get 25:38 the kids into that environment as young, as early, 25:41 as possible, because the older they get, 25:43 the more they become addicted to a-- 25:46 to an artificial excitement that is created 25:49 by the non-natural environment, 25:51 then it's more difficult to get them back into it 25:54 and get back into the natural environment. 25:57 For older kids it's necessary to stay in, 26:01 some, in fact, one person has said 26:03 you have to be three days on a camping trip, 26:05 or three days in the wilderness 26:07 before you finally get relax to the point 26:10 where you can appreciate what God has to say there. 26:12 Because we're having to spend all this time unlearning, 26:15 what we have artificially being experiencing. 26:18 That was true for Moses, 26:20 it took him 40 years to unlearn what he had to learn. 26:22 It took Paul, three years to go to the desert 26:25 to unlearn all other things that 26:27 the artificial environment had provided for him. 26:30 The family is incredibly important that we unlearn 26:35 the exciting things there are so addicting 26:39 in the best environment to do that in, is outdoors 26:44 in the garden, in the fields walking together 26:47 just letting the natural environment come 26:51 and inspire us with what God has to say to us at that time. 26:56 That's sounds beautiful, I'd like to do it right now. 27:00 But our time is coming to an end. 27:04 We're going to have to, go to some more 27:06 conversation on this next time when you join us again. 27:09 Love too. And I want to invite you too join us again. 27:13 But before you leave, I want to leave 27:15 this thought with you. 27:16 "Teach the children to see Christ in nature. 27:19 Take them out into the open air, under the noble trees, 27:23 into the garden, and into 27:25 all the wonderful works of creation 27:27 teach them to see an expression of God's love." 27:32 If you want to get more how to information, 27:34 I'm sure that you can write, or call 3ABN 27:36 and they'll tell you how to do that. 27:39 Until then, I want to ask you to join us again 27:42 here on "Thinking about Home." 27:44 And Dr. Tucker, will be back with us again, 27:48 for a few more programs and I'm sure that you'll enjoy it. 27:51 I hope that you put these things 27:52 about nature into your life. 27:54 Remember comeback and join us again 27:57 here on "Thinking about Home." |
Revised 2014-12-17