Are there any resources
available to those who are
00:00:08.47\00:00:10.57
struggling with abortion?
00:00:10.61\00:00:12.31
Amazingly there are a
lot more than you realize.
00:00:12.34\00:00:15.31
Next on "The
Abortion Controversy"
00:00:15.34\00:00:17.55
Welcome to the grand
finale of a series called,
00:00:48.04\00:00:50.78
"The Abortion
Controversy" This is part 13
00:00:50.81\00:00:53.35
If you have missed the first 12,
00:00:53.38\00:00:55.08
I really
recommend you get the DVD.
00:00:55.12\00:00:57.65
These programs
have been so powerful...
00:00:57.69\00:00:59.25
I've been
interviewing Dianne Wagner,
00:00:59.29\00:01:01.56
and Antionette Duck
of "Mafgia Ministry"
00:01:01.59\00:01:03.83
They have dedicated
their lives to helping
00:01:03.86\00:01:05.79
women and men to deal with
this whole topic of abortion,
00:01:05.83\00:01:09.33
fetuses, babies, life,
death, trauma, guilt, pain,
00:01:09.36\00:01:12.63
and the need for hope
and health and forgiveness
00:01:12.67\00:01:16.27
through Jesus Christ.
00:01:16.30\00:01:17.81
And, again, this
is the big finale,
00:01:17.84\00:01:19.54
we're going to talk
about resources that are
00:01:19.57\00:01:21.18
available to you and
to those that you love,
00:01:21.21\00:01:24.01
and we are totally convinced
that this abortion controversy
00:01:24.05\00:01:27.62
is very much a part
of the great controversy
00:01:27.65\00:01:30.95
between Jesus
Christ and the devil,
00:01:30.99\00:01:33.42
so keep with us
and we'll provide these
00:01:33.46\00:01:36.02
resources for you next.
00:01:36.06\00:01:38.56
Ladies, here we
go... this has been great.
00:01:38.59\00:01:41.86
This has really been good,
and we've done a lot of praying,
00:01:41.90\00:01:44.87
haven't we? Yes, we have.
00:01:44.90\00:01:46.67
This has not just been something
that we've done just on an
00:01:46.70\00:01:49.94
academic level, but we
feel we're in spiritual warfare.
00:01:49.97\00:01:54.01
And, a lot of people, not just
us, but others have been praying
00:01:54.04\00:01:56.78
that God would just bless
this series and really use it
00:01:56.81\00:02:00.15
in a mighty way to His
glory and to help people.
00:02:00.22\00:02:03.99
So this is the last program,
and that's what you're all
00:02:04.02\00:02:06.76
about is about helping
people and you've got a lot of
00:02:06.79\00:02:09.79
resources that you want to
00:02:09.82\00:02:11.49
share, so I'll
turn it over to you.
00:02:11.53\00:02:14.83
Well, you know, the
resources what I believe in is
00:02:14.83\00:02:19.10
education, prevention.
00:02:19.13\00:02:20.60
If you know something is
going to bring harm or trauma,
00:02:20.64\00:02:24.31
death, grief, you want to do
what you can to prevent that,
00:02:24.34\00:02:29.74
and I'm a firm
believer in starting young.
00:02:29.78\00:02:33.11
Start with our children,
instill into them the value
00:02:33.15\00:02:37.82
of life while they're little.
00:02:37.85\00:02:39.69
So the first book I have
here that I want to recommend
00:02:39.72\00:02:42.49
is primarily a picture book.
00:02:42.52\00:02:44.46
But, it's in a book
called, "A Child is Born,"
00:02:44.49\00:02:48.40
and I'm going to
open it up so we can see
00:02:48.43\00:02:50.30
one of the pictures.
00:02:50.33\00:02:52.17
And I believe if you instill
in a child the very special
00:02:52.20\00:02:58.47
value of that baby while
it's still growing in mommy.
00:02:58.51\00:03:02.18
Wow, what a picture.
It's going to make an impact.
00:03:02.21\00:03:05.68
Don't you think? Absolutely
00:03:05.71\00:03:07.05
I need to show
that book to my kids.
00:03:07.12\00:03:08.88
You need to get this book,
and I got this one on EBay.
00:03:08.92\00:03:13.22
What's been so
remarkable is in exhibiting from
00:03:13.25\00:03:18.03
Mafgia's beginning
when we've gone to different
00:03:18.06\00:03:20.00
church
conventions or outreaches,
00:03:20.03\00:03:23.26
setting up exhibits,
we use these fetal models.
00:03:23.33\00:03:28.37
They're called "Touch
of Life Fetal Models,"
00:03:28.40\00:03:30.17
and they show how large
the unborn is at 16 weeks,
00:03:30.21\00:03:36.01
12, 22 and 26.
00:03:36.04\00:03:38.68
It is absolutely astounding
the number of people walking
00:03:38.71\00:03:42.85
by and these are believers
who believe in creation...
00:03:42.88\00:03:45.75
They walk by and they
have no idea how incredibly
00:03:45.79\00:03:50.29
well-developed the baby is
at 12 weeks, at just 3 months.
00:03:50.33\00:03:55.16
Is this real... are you
trying to prove something?
00:03:55.20\00:03:58.80
No, that really is
how developed you are,
00:03:58.83\00:04:00.77
it's absolutely incredible.
00:04:00.84\00:04:02.20
So this is a... for those
of us that believe in creation,
00:04:02.24\00:04:05.81
six days, God
rested on the seventh...
00:04:05.84\00:04:08.21
this is part of creation.
00:04:08.24\00:04:10.85
It's an incredible part
of creation and one that we
00:04:10.88\00:04:13.95
really need to take a
look at and learn from.
00:04:14.02\00:04:15.65
Yes, absolutely!
Absolutely, and to add to that,
00:04:15.68\00:04:18.45
it is so sweet to see the
little girls who will come up
00:04:18.49\00:04:21.42
to the table and
see this and right off,
00:04:21.46\00:04:24.96
hold that little
baby, even if it's an
00:04:24.99\00:04:27.30
unborn 12-week-old. Boy,
that would be my daughter.
00:04:27.30\00:04:30.57
My 7-year-old, Abby, she has
probably 30 little baby dolls,
00:04:30.63\00:04:35.20
and she has
them in her stroller,
00:04:35.24\00:04:37.71
and she has it where
they talk to each other,
00:04:37.74\00:04:40.44
and she carries them
around and she'd be right there.
00:04:40.48\00:04:43.55
Very sweet!
00:04:43.61\00:04:44.95
Well, I want to go
through some other books.
00:04:44.98\00:04:46.82
If someone is truly interested
in the trauma of abortion,
00:04:46.88\00:04:50.99
this is an excellent
book that I would recommend,
00:04:51.02\00:04:53.82
it's "Forbidden
Grief," by Theresa Burke.
00:04:53.86\00:04:56.89
Now remember,
Theresa Burke is the founder
00:04:56.93\00:04:59.49
for "Rachel's Vineyard"...
Which was where you went...
00:04:59.53\00:05:03.26
and it really helped you to
find part of the deepest healing
00:05:03.30\00:05:07.47
of your trauma.
That's true - huge!
00:05:07.54\00:05:10.21
So this is a book I
would highly recommend.
00:05:10.24\00:05:12.97
It's very, very informative
as far as what goes on.
00:05:13.01\00:05:18.38
Yes, yes, absolutely!
00:05:18.41\00:05:20.72
Another book that I
would recommend would be,
00:05:20.75\00:05:23.99
"Why Pro-Life," by Randy
Alcorn, caring for the unborn
00:05:24.02\00:05:28.89
and their mothers.
00:05:28.92\00:05:30.26
I read that book cover-to-cover.
00:05:30.33\00:05:31.66
I saw that you had this...
It really opened my eyes.
00:05:31.69\00:05:35.43
I'm glad you said that
because that's what we need.
00:05:35.46\00:05:38.43
We need our eyes opened.
00:05:38.47\00:05:40.30
There is a lot of good people
out there, but they're ignorant.
00:05:40.34\00:05:43.14
They really don't realize the
crisis that we're dealing with.
00:05:43.17\00:05:47.48
Yeah, 45-million babies a year
00:05:47.54\00:05:49.11
around the world... this
is a crisis! That's right
00:05:49.14\00:05:52.08
Over a million in America.
00:05:52.11\00:05:53.48
Another book, right quick is,
00:05:53.52\00:05:55.82
"Abortion and the Early
Church," Michael Gorman.
00:05:55.85\00:06:01.12
This was just a
very informative book.
00:06:01.16\00:06:03.66
It really opened my
eyes as far as a church.
00:06:03.69\00:06:08.36
We have made
compromises in the past,
00:06:08.40\00:06:11.60
but there has been a
repentance of that compromise.
00:06:11.63\00:06:14.74
So we're never at a
place where we can't repent
00:06:14.77\00:06:18.21
if we have been neutral or
maybe too silent about an issue.
00:06:18.24\00:06:23.45
Gotten off track
in a certain area.
00:06:23.48\00:06:25.08
We can see that
down throughout history.
00:06:25.11\00:06:26.45
God's people
have woven in and out.
00:06:26.48\00:06:29.65
The Lord is always leading them
00:06:29.68\00:06:31.02
back to the straight and
narrow path. That's right!
00:06:31.05\00:06:34.16
So, I don't know if there
was anything you wanted to add.
00:06:34.19\00:06:38.66
Really, you know, we think
that getting what's been really
00:06:38.69\00:06:43.63
phenomenal in our experience,
and even my meeting Dianne,
00:06:43.67\00:06:48.97
speaking with her, is that
getting the conversation going.
00:06:49.00\00:06:53.44
She talks about
prevention through education
00:06:53.48\00:06:55.74
because it's something
that people are so silent on...
00:06:55.78\00:06:59.45
because there's so much shame;
there's so much condemnation;
00:06:59.48\00:07:01.78
and there's so much baggage
that comes with this issue,
00:07:01.82\00:07:04.39
just getting the conversation
going can really start the
00:07:04.42\00:07:08.16
healing process... Absolutely
and so getting something...
00:07:08.19\00:07:11.99
Some of these books, I'm
sure Dianne will talk about
00:07:12.03\00:07:14.73
Sydna Masse's book
later, but books like this
00:07:14.76\00:07:18.10
that talk about other
people's abortion experiences,
00:07:18.13\00:07:21.57
it's almost cathartic.
00:07:21.60\00:07:23.91
You know whatever, if
you've experienced child abuse,
00:07:23.94\00:07:26.01
if you had experienced
a difficult childhood or
00:07:26.04\00:07:27.94
a difficult marriage, reading
about their experiences...
00:07:27.98\00:07:33.45
It's almost like a catharsis
to say, "I'm not alone."
00:07:33.52\00:07:36.15
I'm not the only one...
00:07:36.18\00:07:37.52
I'm not the only one who has
been experiencing these things.
00:07:37.59\00:07:39.92
Is it the same issue
kind of like pornography?
00:07:39.95\00:07:42.89
I mean, we're not
dealing with pornography here,
00:07:42.92\00:07:45.09
but there's a huge percentage
of men that are involved in
00:07:45.13\00:07:49.03
pornography and
they need resources,
00:07:49.06\00:07:52.13
and it's like the hidden shame
00:07:52.17\00:07:53.90
that they just
don't want to talk about.
00:07:53.94\00:07:55.77
So when they find out
that there is a healing website
00:07:55.80\00:07:58.54
that has resources and
they can come, they can talk,
00:07:58.57\00:08:01.81
they can say I've got
a problem, I need help.
00:08:01.84\00:08:03.78
It's a similar thing, isn't
it, that we're dealing with
00:08:03.81\00:08:06.55
deep, dark shame
and the need for light,
00:08:06.58\00:08:10.15
God's light to
shine into that darkness.
00:08:10.22\00:08:13.79
Well, and how often does
the enemy want you to think
00:08:13.82\00:08:16.12
you're walking alone,
when in reality, you're not.
00:08:16.16\00:08:18.79
He wants you to
think you're walking alone,
00:08:18.83\00:08:20.16
and there's no way out for you.
00:08:20.23\00:08:21.53
And so it's all
condemnation, it's all despair,
00:08:21.56\00:08:23.47
it's all
hopelessness... when in reality,
00:08:23.50\00:08:25.80
so many people
have walked before you,
00:08:25.83\00:08:27.87
and praise the Lord, some
have found healing and freedom
00:08:27.90\00:08:31.91
at the cross.
00:08:31.94\00:08:33.27
And so, know that
those resources are there,
00:08:33.31\00:08:36.14
seek them out
because you're not alone,
00:08:36.18\00:08:38.58
and your
situation is not hopeless.
00:08:38.61\00:08:40.82
There is a Savior who
waits to set you free.
00:08:40.85\00:08:42.62
Do you have these
resources on your website?
00:08:42.65\00:08:44.92
Is there a link or if they're
not, I'm assuming will they be,
00:08:44.95\00:08:49.22
because people, as
they're listening to this,
00:08:49.26\00:08:50.83
watching this, they're
going to want to go to...
00:08:50.86\00:08:52.96
"Mafgia.com" Yes
00:08:52.99\00:09:01.00
They can go there,
they can find the resources,
00:09:01.04\00:09:03.54
they can contact you? Yes
00:09:03.57\00:09:05.41
They can schedule you
to come to their church
00:09:05.44\00:09:08.94
if you've got the
time... Yes, yes, absolutely!
00:09:08.98\00:09:11.08
You do speak
together, you go out and speak
00:09:11.11\00:09:13.21
in conventions before
physicians you're available. Yes
00:09:13.25\00:09:17.22
You are a resource. Yes!
00:09:17.25\00:09:18.92
And please, I will
promote Dianne here...
00:09:18.95\00:09:22.69
If women have experienced
this, I mean in speaking, again
00:09:22.72\00:09:27.73
being interviewed
in other situations,
00:09:27.76\00:09:30.87
women send us their
stories; men are the same way.
00:09:30.90\00:09:34.74
Dianne is the most
incredible resource
00:09:34.77\00:09:36.84
because she has walked
there, she has been there.
00:09:36.91\00:09:38.81
And, being able to talk to
someone who has been there,
00:09:38.84\00:09:42.18
it's invaluable and so please
don't hesitate to reach out.
00:09:42.21\00:09:47.02
We would really love to
be in contact with anyone,
00:09:47.05\00:09:51.65
but especially
Dianne if a woman has walked
00:09:51.69\00:09:54.26
through a post-abortive
experience, to reach out to her
00:09:54.29\00:09:57.53
because she may not
plug herself, but I will.
00:09:57.56\00:09:59.36
Are there any more resources
that you haven't mentioned?
00:09:59.39\00:10:01.63
Well,
as-a-matter-of-fact, yes...
00:10:01.66\00:10:04.63
You know, when I first
started looking for resources,
00:10:04.67\00:10:07.77
when I first started
getting that thirst for more
00:10:07.80\00:10:10.61
and I was really
doing my own search,
00:10:10.67\00:10:13.88
I went to three
different Christian book stores,
00:10:13.94\00:10:16.41
and found nothing, so I
want to encourage people,
00:10:16.44\00:10:19.81
if they start looking
and they can't find it,
00:10:19.85\00:10:22.95
it's there, you just
have to look a little harder.
00:10:22.98\00:10:25.22
I've actually found a
lot of my stuff online.
00:10:25.25\00:10:27.96
"Amazon.com" I imagine...
Yes Probably plenty there.
00:10:27.99\00:10:31.86
Yes, quite a bit.
00:10:31.89\00:10:33.36
So, the thing I want
to really encourage now
00:10:33.40\00:10:36.03
or address is men
because it's becoming
00:10:36.06\00:10:40.40
more and more apparent,
and especially since men are
00:10:40.47\00:10:43.94
finding their voices and now
they're encouraging other men's
00:10:43.97\00:10:47.41
groups and other
Bible study groups for men.
00:10:47.44\00:10:50.78
because they realize the
redemption they have gotten,
00:10:50.81\00:10:53.38
you know, the
healing they have gotten.
00:10:53.45\00:10:54.78
So I have three books here;
00:10:54.82\00:10:56.32
this one is "Men and
Abortion: A path to healing."
00:10:56.35\00:11:01.29
C. T. Coyle is the
author, a very good book.
00:11:01.32\00:11:05.26
This next one is "A Bible Study"
and this is what I would love
00:11:05.29\00:11:12.77
to see our church do eventually,
00:11:12.80\00:11:14.70
is provide Bible
studies for men and women,
00:11:14.74\00:11:18.14
to have a men's group.
00:11:18.17\00:11:19.57
And not just make it
open to the community,
00:11:19.61\00:11:22.88
and the church
would be the place for it.
00:11:22.91\00:11:25.81
Right - a resource. Exactly!
00:11:25.85\00:11:27.48
Advertise, people
can come. Right...
00:11:27.52\00:11:29.98
Stress seminars,
health seminars. That's right!
00:11:30.05\00:11:32.99
Stop smoking, have
healing from abortion seminars.
00:11:33.02\00:11:36.56
And, from experience,
people, a lot of times will
00:11:36.59\00:11:39.96
avoid a church building,
but a building next to it,
00:11:40.00\00:11:43.80
I mean a lot of times the
gym or the Family Life Center,
00:11:43.83\00:11:47.47
you know - that
there'll be another place.
00:11:47.50\00:11:49.04
But this is "Healing a
Father's Heart," Linda Cochrane.
00:11:49.07\00:11:52.71
They have one like this for a
mother - the "...Woman's Heart,"
00:11:52.74\00:11:57.08
and very good.
00:11:57.11\00:11:58.85
Now this one, I am
particularly interested in,
00:11:58.88\00:12:02.58
and I would encourage this
actually to be the first book
00:12:02.62\00:12:05.49
if a man were
actually looking for a book.
00:12:05.52\00:12:08.62
"Redeeming a
Father's Heart," Kevin Burke.
00:12:08.66\00:12:12.26
Read that subtitle - it says,
"Men share powerful stories
00:12:12.29\00:12:16.73
of abortion loss and
recovery." Absolutely!
00:12:16.77\00:12:19.67
And it's filled with stories
and like Antionette was saying,
00:12:19.70\00:12:23.41
...when you hear
other people's stories,
00:12:23.47\00:12:25.74
when men hear
other men's stories,
00:12:25.77\00:12:28.11
it really makes an impact
because like I was telling
00:12:28.14\00:12:31.25
you earlier, men bury
this very deep, this trauma.
00:12:31.28\00:12:35.32
One of the chapters in here
that I thought was especially
00:12:35.35\00:12:38.29
important was chapter 3,
00:12:38.32\00:12:40.22
"I married a
post-abortive woman."
00:12:40.26\00:12:43.19
You know, men that get
into a relationship with a woman
00:12:43.22\00:12:48.06
who has had an
abortion, it wasn't his baby,
00:12:48.10\00:12:51.13
they need to
understand the trauma
00:12:51.17\00:12:54.07
that woman is going through.
That makes perfect sense.
00:12:54.10\00:12:56.14
It absolutely does and so
even if you bought the book
00:12:56.17\00:13:00.38
for no other reason than that
chapter, I would encourage men.
00:13:00.41\00:13:04.25
So that men can really
understand what there was.
00:13:04.28\00:13:06.58
Think it through
and then they can
00:13:06.61\00:13:08.72
say the right things
and minister to them.
00:13:08.75\00:13:10.52
And understand... in fact, I
got a letter from a gentleman
00:13:10.59\00:13:14.49
who had read some of my
stuff and he thanked me so much.
00:13:14.52\00:13:18.99
He goes, "I understand
my wife so much better now."
00:13:19.03\00:13:23.53
And that was just
from reading my story...
00:13:23.57\00:13:26.37
So I would
encourage men, wouldn't you?
00:13:26.40\00:13:29.34
Oh absolutely, and you know,
the enemy is looking to destroy
00:13:29.37\00:13:35.48
people and
marriages in any way he can,
00:13:35.51\00:13:38.31
and you consider the
number of women who have been
00:13:38.35\00:13:39.98
affected by this, the
number of men who have been
00:13:40.02\00:13:41.88
affected by this as
we have already said,
00:13:41.92\00:13:43.75
and for a woman not to be
able to share this kind of pain
00:13:43.79\00:13:47.96
with her husband, it would
be devastating because she's
00:13:47.99\00:13:51.66
living in shame all over again
because she can't even tell
00:13:51.69\00:13:55.13
the one who is supposed
to love her most dearly about
00:13:55.16\00:13:58.53
something that
has been so traumatic.
00:13:58.57\00:14:02.00
So men really need to understand
so they can come alongside
00:14:02.04\00:14:05.24
their wives and be a part
of the healing process. Right
00:14:05.27\00:14:08.74
And not push it aside or say,
00:14:08.78\00:14:10.35
"I love you
anyway, it doesn't matter,"
00:14:10.38\00:14:12.38
It matters to her,
it matters to the Lord,
00:14:12.41\00:14:15.58
it matters to their
marriage, so deal with it,
00:14:15.62\00:14:18.65
and be a strong,
united front going forward.
00:14:18.69\00:14:21.42
And of course it's not
just for the women who have
00:14:21.46\00:14:23.43
been through this or
the men who are married to
00:14:23.46\00:14:25.66
the women who
have been through this,
00:14:25.69\00:14:27.03
and the men who
have been through this,
00:14:27.10\00:14:28.40
but most of us know
somebody that has been involved
00:14:28.43\00:14:31.77
in these things even
if we really or may we
00:14:31.80\00:14:34.34
don't think we know them or
we think we don't know them,
00:14:34.37\00:14:37.51
but we'd be surprised.
00:14:37.57\00:14:39.04
I think you mentioned
that there was some situation
00:14:39.07\00:14:41.31
where you went
somewhere and you were told,
00:14:41.34\00:14:43.24
"Well the women here -
this is not our problem."
00:14:43.31\00:14:45.45
And you walked
away just shocked...
00:14:45.48\00:14:47.92
yeah but if she
only knew the facts!
00:14:47.95\00:14:50.45
Exactly, it was a school...
we were approaching different
00:14:50.49\00:14:54.66
schools letting them
know what we had to offer,
00:14:54.69\00:14:57.73
and one particular
school that I went to said,
00:14:57.76\00:15:01.06
"Well we don't
have that problem here."
00:15:01.10\00:15:03.20
And it really made me
sad for this woman because
00:15:03.23\00:15:08.60
I'm thinking, "What is going on
that you aren't even aware of."
00:15:08.64\00:15:12.24
And even if we're not personally
involved in our own home,
00:15:12.27\00:15:16.75
once it's known that we
have resources about this,
00:15:16.78\00:15:21.68
people will probably
come out of the woodwork
00:15:21.72\00:15:23.49
and we can help others.
00:15:23.52\00:15:24.85
I mean, there is family members
and friends and somehow God
00:15:24.89\00:15:28.02
has to open up that
door into their heart,
00:15:28.06\00:15:30.03
so they're
willing to talk about it,
00:15:30.06\00:15:31.56
and then we want to
be resources of healing.
00:15:31.59\00:15:35.66
And on that note,
which is very important,
00:15:35.70\00:15:38.80
whenever I encourage people
about this particular book,
00:15:38.83\00:15:43.57
it was the first book I
read when I started my search.
00:15:43.61\00:15:48.68
It's Sydna Masse, she has the
"Ramah International Ministries"
00:15:48.71\00:15:52.85
for post-abortive healing.
00:15:52.88\00:15:54.38
And, the name of her
book is "Her Choice to Heal"
00:15:54.42\00:15:57.82
She was post-abortive,
she shares her story
00:15:57.85\00:16:00.92
and her journey.
00:16:00.99\00:16:02.49
Actually, Sydna Masse worked
with James Dobson's ministry,
00:16:02.52\00:16:07.50
"Focus on the Family"
for a while and then she
00:16:07.56\00:16:10.57
actually broke off and
established her own ministry,
00:16:10.60\00:16:14.14
and she has been a
huge blessing to me.
00:16:14.17\00:16:17.21
This, again, I just
want to show it again...
00:16:17.24\00:16:19.34
I would encourage any woman
and also if you have a friend
00:16:19.37\00:16:24.05
that you know
has been through it,
00:16:24.08\00:16:26.01
you know, there have been
people who have come to us
00:16:26.05\00:16:28.15
and told us stories that
they have a friend who had one,
00:16:28.18\00:16:30.62
and she has changed.
00:16:30.69\00:16:32.49
The subtitle there, "Finding
Spiritual and Emotional Peace
00:16:32.52\00:16:39.23
After Abortion." Absolutely!
00:16:39.26\00:16:41.03
And what I wanted to add to
this is before you give it away,
00:16:41.06\00:16:45.33
read it... it's so easy
to buy a book and think,
00:16:45.37\00:16:48.84
"Okay quick fix, and
then give it," and not even be
00:16:48.87\00:16:51.84
acquainted with
what's on the inside...
00:16:51.87\00:16:54.54
So I would encourage
people, even if they're not in
00:16:54.58\00:16:57.35
a position to give it
away, if they know someone
00:16:57.41\00:17:00.55
and they want to minister
to that particular person,
00:17:00.58\00:17:03.85
it would be good
for them to read.
00:17:03.92\00:17:05.75
Sure, and those that may
be watching this who have
00:17:05.79\00:17:08.72
ministries; they may have
websites or Facebook pages
00:17:08.76\00:17:12.63
where they link certain books.
00:17:12.66\00:17:14.50
I'll put that book on
my Facebook page and just
00:17:14.56\00:17:17.67
link it for there is somewhere
around 7,000 likes on there
00:17:17.70\00:17:21.94
and it's growing and so I
can just link that from Amazon,
00:17:21.97\00:17:25.04
and recommend the
book for women and for men
00:17:25.07\00:17:28.41
who are struggling with
this issue and, who knows,
00:17:28.44\00:17:30.75
I might get a lot of responses.
00:17:30.78\00:17:32.61
Some of my posts get
quite a few, quite a few so
00:17:32.65\00:17:35.52
ministries can do these
things too. Yes absolutely!
00:17:35.55\00:17:39.52
And one point just to
reemphasize which I think
00:17:39.55\00:17:41.56
we have through
this 13-part series...
00:17:41.59\00:17:45.23
Don't underestimate the effect
that the abortion is having
00:17:45.26\00:17:52.50
on your friend,
your sister, or your mom,
00:17:52.53\00:17:54.80
or your granddaughter.
00:17:54.84\00:17:56.30
You know the stories,
as Dianne has mentioned,
00:17:56.34\00:17:58.37
that we've heard,
the level of pain,
00:17:58.41\00:18:01.58
it takes the breath out of you.
00:18:01.61\00:18:03.48
I mean, women have
shared things like...
00:18:03.51\00:18:07.65
"The enemy tells me, he
taunts me with the fact that
00:18:07.68\00:18:10.42
the reason my children
don't believe in the Lord
00:18:10.45\00:18:12.99
is because I had an abortion."
00:18:13.02\00:18:14.99
To wake up every morning
with that, to go to bed with
00:18:15.02\00:18:18.19
it at night and, like
Dianne when I met her,
00:18:18.23\00:18:21.63
there was a survival
mode and she carried this deep
00:18:21.66\00:18:26.50
pain and she was
dying to be set free,
00:18:26.53\00:18:30.71
and nobody knew, no one knew.
00:18:30.74\00:18:34.21
This is happening, as we've
talked about, statistically,
00:18:34.28\00:18:37.45
the number of women
who were being affected,
00:18:37.48\00:18:40.02
it's astronomical
and the resources,
00:18:40.05\00:18:44.49
we do need to know
as fellow believers,
00:18:44.52\00:18:47.26
what are they walking through,
what are they experiencing...
00:18:47.29\00:18:49.76
Because, literally,
the woman next to you,
00:18:49.79\00:18:51.96
the woman who you pass
by in the hallway at church,
00:18:51.99\00:18:55.33
the woman you pass on the
street, the woman on the bus...
00:18:55.36\00:18:57.57
I mean, it's
everywhere, it's everywhere.
00:18:57.60\00:19:00.87
And, for us to be able
to be alike, two people
00:19:00.90\00:19:04.57
who are being
tormented with that kind of
00:19:04.61\00:19:06.91
condemnation...invaluable!
00:19:06.94\00:19:08.51
I'd like to recommend a resource
00:19:08.54\00:19:10.38
and it's the
movie, "October Baby"
00:19:10.41\00:19:12.31
And I know you've
both watched it. Yes
00:19:12.35\00:19:14.98
Somebody recommended it to me.
00:19:15.02\00:19:16.48
My wife got it from Netflix,
00:19:16.52\00:19:19.09
and I watched,
it's about 1-1/2 hours.
00:19:19.12\00:19:21.46
It's about a woman and her
and her brother were aborted,
00:19:21.49\00:19:27.76
but they survived the abortion,
00:19:27.76\00:19:29.50
and eventually they were adopted
and the brother didn't make it,
00:19:29.53\00:19:33.00
but the woman did and she grew
up with her adopted parents,
00:19:33.03\00:19:36.71
and finally when she
was 18 or 19, she discovered
00:19:36.74\00:19:40.08
that these really
weren't her parents...
00:19:40.11\00:19:41.78
So she began a long quest to
try to find out where is my mom,
00:19:41.81\00:19:45.78
and then somehow,
eventually, she found her,
00:19:45.81\00:19:48.05
and the woman,
when she really realized
00:19:48.08\00:19:50.49
she was in front of her
daughter that she had aborted,
00:19:50.52\00:19:53.12
but had survived, she
just... she closed down,
00:19:53.15\00:19:56.29
but later on the daughter
came back and left a note
00:19:56.32\00:20:00.80
on her desk that
said, "I forgive you,"
00:20:00.83\00:20:03.00
with her little baby
sticker around her wrist...
00:20:03.03\00:20:06.63
And then she just
broke down and bawled.
00:20:06.70\00:20:09.87
And, the movie is totally
clean, it has a powerful message
00:20:09.90\00:20:14.28
about chastity and
also about abortion,
00:20:14.31\00:20:17.21
the pain and the trauma,
and it brought tears to my eyes.
00:20:17.25\00:20:20.88
Somebody wrote me and
said he cried when he saw it,
00:20:20.92\00:20:23.65
and it's just a clean
powerful film, "October Baby."
00:20:23.69\00:20:28.96
You know, you were
talking about the chastity...
00:20:28.99\00:20:30.99
I think it's just like in
this book, we teach our children
00:20:31.03\00:20:34.83
what's happening when mommy is
pregnant and the baby is alive
00:20:34.83\00:20:39.53
and fingers and toes.
00:20:39.57\00:20:40.97
Just as important is to
value yourself and to value your
00:20:41.00\00:20:47.61
purity from an early age,
sacred territory and protect it,
00:20:47.64\00:20:53.38
keep it special.
00:20:53.45\00:20:55.72
So we really need to
be educating the church
00:20:55.75\00:20:58.15
and educating children
and everyone as much as we can
00:20:58.19\00:21:01.62
about the importance
of moral purity because
00:21:01.66\00:21:05.19
that's really where it starts.
00:21:05.23\00:21:06.56
If we're pure morally, sexually,
waiting until we get married,
00:21:06.59\00:21:10.83
and saving that gift
for the context of marriage,
00:21:10.87\00:21:13.60
and then we're not going
to get into these situations.
00:21:13.64\00:21:16.97
As generally speaking, I
mean we're not going to get into
00:21:17.01\00:21:20.64
... yeah the majority,
where then the temptation comes
00:21:20.68\00:21:23.65
to have an
abortion in the first place.
00:21:23.71\00:21:25.61
Got to hit the, like
John the Baptist said,
00:21:25.65\00:21:27.65
"The ax has got to go
to the root of the tree,"
00:21:27.68\00:21:29.62
and sexual purity really
is preventative, isn't it?
00:21:29.65\00:21:34.66
... from getting into that
situation in the first place.
00:21:34.69\00:21:36.89
It is, but also understanding
why because we're valuable.
00:21:36.93\00:21:41.93
It all comes back to us being
made in the image of the Lord.
00:21:41.96\00:21:44.57
The entire issue... if we
were trees, if we were dogs,
00:21:44.60\00:21:47.90
this would not,
abortion would not be an issue.
00:21:47.94\00:21:50.24
We're human beings made
in the image of the Lord,
00:21:50.27\00:21:52.31
and so when He
says, "Save yourself,"
00:21:52.34\00:21:54.71
when He says, "Don't
settle for the counterfeit,"
00:21:54.74\00:21:56.91
He created us, He
knows us very well.
00:21:56.98\00:22:00.32
And as we discussed before,
when we stay in the bounds
00:22:00.35\00:22:02.85
of His law in those
parameters, that is where
00:22:02.88\00:22:05.69
our hedge of
protection, our safe place is.
00:22:05.72\00:22:07.39
Sexual purity and
marriage is part of God's plan
00:22:07.46\00:22:10.56
for our happiness. Absolutely!
00:22:10.63\00:22:12.66
That's right. If,
in fact... okay, but
00:22:12.69\00:22:15.66
say a woman does need resources
because she has gotten pregnant.
00:22:15.70\00:22:20.44
There are "Crisis
Pregnancy Centers"...
00:22:20.60\00:22:22.67
They may be called
"Pregnancy Crisis Centers" now
00:22:22.70\00:22:25.37
across the United States,
just like the one that my mom
00:22:25.41\00:22:28.08
went to that was operating
out of the church back in 1981.
00:22:28.11\00:22:31.41
They are incredible resources.
00:22:31.45\00:22:34.18
They are available regionally,
so it's not like you have one
00:22:34.22\00:22:38.72
hub and you fly
to a certain place.
00:22:38.75\00:22:42.06
They are phenomenal resources.
00:22:42.09\00:22:44.19
They will actually
give you pregnancy tests
00:22:44.23\00:22:46.56
for women who are pregnant.
00:22:46.59\00:22:48.13
They can provide
formula, diapers.
00:22:48.16\00:22:51.97
Each Crisis Pregnancy
Center is sort of a unit of
00:22:52.00\00:22:56.84
it's own providing different
resources for the community,
00:22:56.87\00:23:01.38
and so it's really
important to seek that out.
00:23:01.41\00:23:04.68
It doesn't just
have physical resources,
00:23:04.71\00:23:07.42
they can help women in terms
of finding somewhere to go.
00:23:07.45\00:23:11.55
There are shelters around
the United States that will take
00:23:11.59\00:23:14.49
in a woman who is
pregnant to help her
00:23:14.52\00:23:17.56
throughout her pregnancy.
00:23:17.63\00:23:18.96
So it's not just the
post-abortive ministry,
00:23:18.99\00:23:20.80
it's women that are
pregnant ministry so they don't
00:23:20.83\00:23:23.03
have an abortion
and then what to do
00:23:23.06\00:23:24.50
if their home life is a
mess, there are still people
00:23:24.53\00:23:27.94
that are willing to
help them and walk through
00:23:27.97\00:23:30.37
this crisis with them. Exactly
00:23:30.41\00:23:32.21
Now what about
churches themselves?
00:23:32.24\00:23:33.64
We don't have a lot
of time, but quickly,
00:23:33.68\00:23:36.91
you're not only providing these
resources, but you would like
00:23:36.95\00:23:40.42
to see churches become centers
of resources as well, right?
00:23:40.48\00:23:44.65
Yes...
absolutely! Yes Absolutely
00:23:44.69\00:23:46.86
You consider, I
mean, in my own story,
00:23:46.92\00:23:48.99
the way that the
church just embraced us,
00:23:49.02\00:23:51.06
they literally came
alongside us and embraced us.
00:23:51.09\00:23:54.56
What if our churches
were developing homes where
00:23:54.60\00:23:59.13
a woman could go to have
her child if she chose life?
00:23:59.17\00:24:03.94
What if our churches
were at least partnering with
00:24:04.01\00:24:07.58
adoption agencies and
Crisis Pregnancy Centers,
00:24:07.61\00:24:12.38
so they were places that were
reputable who were Christian,
00:24:12.41\00:24:16.99
and they wanted to place
children with fellow believers.
00:24:17.02\00:24:22.56
And I'm just so thrilled
because the church I attend
00:24:22.59\00:24:26.16
in western North
Carolina, is very supportive of
00:24:26.19\00:24:29.10
our local Crisis
Pregnancy Center.
00:24:29.13\00:24:31.83
So I want to encourage
churches to look into that.
00:24:31.87\00:24:35.87
The women's ministry can play
a huge part putting together
00:24:35.90\00:24:38.97
baskets with the diapers
and bottles and various things,
00:24:39.01\00:24:42.78
just as an encouragement and
support... we're there for you.
00:24:42.81\00:24:47.38
Men's ministries,
there is family ministries,
00:24:47.42\00:24:50.45
There is so many different...
00:24:50.49\00:24:51.95
So this can be woven
into men's ministries,
00:24:51.99\00:24:54.29
woven into women's
ministries. Absolutely!
00:24:54.32\00:24:57.29
And someone just
asked me not too long ago,
00:24:57.33\00:24:59.39
what they could do and I
said, "Well, start by contacting
00:24:59.43\00:25:02.63
your local Crisis Pregnancy
and find out what they need,
00:25:02.66\00:25:05.97
and what they have to
offer, and get to know them
00:25:06.00\00:25:09.20
because you never know
when someone is going to come
00:25:09.24\00:25:11.04
into your life and you
say, "I have a resource."
00:25:11.07\00:25:16.41
Yes, and post-abortive
counseling - they don't just
00:25:16.44\00:25:20.12
offer post-abortive counseling
for the post-abortive,
00:25:20.15\00:25:22.98
but also counseling
that people can go through
00:25:23.02\00:25:27.06
to understand what
that experience was like
00:25:27.09\00:25:29.29
for the post-abortive. Right
00:25:29.32\00:25:30.96
On behalf of "White Horse
Media" thank you for being here.
00:25:30.99\00:25:35.16
Thank you so much,
this has been so good
00:25:35.20\00:25:36.93
and only God knows how many
people are going to be helped
00:25:36.97\00:25:39.83
as a result of
what you've shared here
00:25:39.87\00:25:42.94
during these 13 programs.
00:25:42.97\00:25:45.77
Wow... resources are available.
00:25:45.81\00:25:48.84
We're down at the end
and I want to share just
00:25:48.88\00:25:51.61
some really important thoughts
and one Bible verse which is in
00:25:51.65\00:25:55.08
Revelation 14:12, the Bible says
"Here is the patience of the
00:25:55.12\00:25:59.85
saints. Here are they who
keep the commandments of God,
00:25:59.89\00:26:03.79
and the faith of Jesus."
00:26:03.86\00:26:05.66
I'm totally convinced that
God is developing a people,
00:26:05.69\00:26:08.46
a forgiven commandment-keeping
people in these last days
00:26:08.50\00:26:13.13
who will be the people
described in this verse.
00:26:13.17\00:26:15.47
God wants us to
be sexually pure,
00:26:15.50\00:26:17.41
keeping the 7th commandment.
00:26:17.44\00:26:18.77
He wants us to be
keeping the 6th commandment;
00:26:18.81\00:26:21.18
keeping all the commandments.
00:26:21.21\00:26:22.54
He wants us to be very
clear that abortion violates
00:26:22.58\00:26:25.25
the 6th commandment, that
it takes an innocent life...
00:26:25.28\00:26:28.15
For God's sake, the lives
of little babies that have been
00:26:28.18\00:26:31.29
created by Jesus Christ.
00:26:31.32\00:26:33.36
If we expect the Holy Spirit
to fall on us like we want to
00:26:33.39\00:26:37.36
happen in these last days,
we have got to be a pure people.
00:26:37.43\00:26:41.00
We have to be a people
that are not having abortions;
00:26:41.03\00:26:44.37
that are not
promoting abortions;
00:26:44.40\00:26:46.23
that are not
performing abortions,
00:26:46.27\00:26:50.01
and are not
compromising in this issue.
00:26:50.07\00:26:52.84
This is a very
important law of God issue.
00:26:52.87\00:26:55.08
And those who
have had abortions,
00:26:55.11\00:26:57.11
we need to reach out to them
with the love, mercy and grace
00:26:57.15\00:26:59.45
of Jesus showing people
that they are still valuable,
00:26:59.48\00:27:01.88
they are still
loved, that forgiveness and
00:27:01.92\00:27:03.82
full restoration is
available through Jesus Christ,
00:27:03.85\00:27:06.72
and those who find this love,
their voices can join the other
00:27:06.79\00:27:10.26
voices that can be heard.
00:27:10.29\00:27:11.99
God's law is a law of love and
God wants to reveal that love
00:27:12.03\00:27:15.30
through His people
in these last days.
00:27:15.33\00:27:17.67
And may God help
us to be that people.
00:27:17.70\00:27:21.44
Dianne Wagner
and Antionette Duck
00:27:21.47\00:27:23.64
share powerful life-changing
information in this
00:27:23.71\00:27:26.27
13-part series, "The
Abortion Controversy"
00:27:26.31\00:27:29.61
To order this 6-1/2
hour DVD set for only $34.95,
00:27:29.64\00:27:34.02
call 1-800-782-4253
00:27:34.05\00:27:41.16
Or you can write
to the following:
00:27:41.19\00:27:47.13
Or order on line at
www.whitehorsemedia.com
00:27:47.20\00:27:50.93
If you've been
blessed by today's program,
00:27:50.97\00:27:54.70
and would like to help
"White Horse Media" with your
00:27:54.74\00:27:57.01
financial support, you
can call our toll free number
00:27:57.07\00:28:00.11
listed on the screen or donate
online at "whitehorsemedia.com"
00:28:00.14\00:28:04.18
We solicit your
prayers for our ministry,
00:28:04.21\00:28:06.85
and we thank you for
any gift large or small
00:28:06.88\00:28:10.42
to help us reach
people with the gospel.
00:28:10.45\00:28:13.52