Is there real
hope for real sinners?
00:00:08.47\00:00:11.11
What about those
who have had abortions?
00:00:11.14\00:00:13.01
And if so, who does God
want to communicate that hope?
00:00:13.04\00:00:17.01
Could it be the church?
00:00:17.05\00:00:18.88
Next on "The
Abortion Controversy"
00:00:18.91\00:00:21.28
Welcome back to "The
Abortion Controversy"
00:00:50.88\00:00:52.61
This is program #12 of 13.
00:00:52.65\00:00:55.32
I tell you, these are
high-powered programs.
00:00:55.35\00:00:57.89
If you have missed
the first 11 topics,
00:00:57.92\00:01:00.96
you really need to get the DVD.
00:01:00.99\00:01:02.59
I tell you, this is just
high-powered information.
00:01:02.62\00:01:05.36
My guest today, as in
the past, is Antionette Duck.
00:01:05.39\00:01:08.86
She is the founder of
"Mafgia Ministry" that is
00:01:08.90\00:01:12.77
passionate about helping
women who have had abortions
00:01:12.80\00:01:17.37
to find real hope and
peace and healing from God.
00:01:17.41\00:01:21.68
So Antionette, again, thank
you for being here... Thank you
00:01:21.71\00:01:24.78
I have really been
blessed, I've learned a lot,
00:01:24.81\00:01:28.35
and I know you're going
to light another fire today.
00:01:28.38\00:01:31.32
So, I want to start with a
text since we've talked. Yes
00:01:31.35\00:01:35.09
I know where you're
going during this next program,
00:01:35.12\00:01:38.46
and so I think this fits.
00:01:38.49\00:01:40.06
Ecclesiastes 3:7, the
Bible says," There is a time
00:01:40.10\00:01:44.03
to keep silence and
there is a time to speak..."
00:01:44.10\00:01:47.60
And it is a time to
speak about this subject,
00:01:47.64\00:01:50.64
isn't it? Absolutely.
00:01:50.67\00:01:52.31
You know for us,
the story of the cross
00:01:52.34\00:01:55.74
is the story of redemption,
and this entire issue
00:01:55.78\00:01:59.95
comes back to... we are
valuable, we are made in
00:02:00.05\00:02:03.69
the image of the Lord,
but at the end of the day,
00:02:03.72\00:02:05.69
He wants relationship with us...
00:02:05.72\00:02:07.82
And so for us, the
story of the cross -
00:02:07.86\00:02:10.83
that's what this
is really all about.
00:02:10.86\00:02:12.66
The story is where devastation
and wreckage meet hope.
00:02:12.69\00:02:17.03
And if we, as the
church, are not speaking it,
00:02:17.07\00:02:20.70
where are people going to go,
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who is going to
share that truth with them?
00:02:22.64\00:02:27.34
Our desire is that, as
individuals and as a church,
00:02:27.38\00:02:30.71
we would embrace this
duty, embrace this calling to be
00:02:30.75\00:02:35.28
the voice as we had
referred to in the past program,
00:02:35.32\00:02:37.65
crying out in the
wilderness about the redemption
00:02:37.69\00:02:40.12
that is available.
00:02:40.16\00:02:42.96
I think though, you know,
in my own past experience,
00:02:42.99\00:02:47.46
my own past attitudes,
I think as we go forward
00:02:47.50\00:02:50.60
truly sharing the message
of redemption with women,
00:02:50.63\00:02:53.97
there is
something that we need to...
00:02:54.00\00:02:57.37
we need to come as we
are, in terms of saying,
00:02:57.44\00:03:01.84
"I'm broken, you're broken,"
00:03:01.88\00:03:03.65
We're all broken and we're all
equal at the foot of the cross.
00:03:03.68\00:03:06.31
The story of Rahab has really
become quite powerful to me.
00:03:06.35\00:03:11.09
If you think of Rahab's
story which, in the past,
00:03:11.12\00:03:13.49
I had not given much thought
to, she was a prostitute,
00:03:13.56\00:03:16.66
she was living in
Jericho and she hid spies
00:03:16.73\00:03:20.73
when they came, 2 spies,
when they came to look over the
00:03:20.80\00:03:23.53
land before the Israelites
finally took the city.
00:03:23.57\00:03:25.97
And conquer Jericho and
the walls came down. Yes!
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My kids love that
story. Yes, so do I.
00:03:28.10\00:03:30.27
Well, she was a prostitute,
and when I've heard people
00:03:30.31\00:03:34.31
discuss this story, the
conclusion inevitably is
00:03:34.34\00:03:40.58
"take heart friend, because
00:03:40.62\00:03:43.22
the Lord can save
even a prostitute."
00:03:43.25\00:03:45.55
And the last time I heard
that, I was just struck by it.
00:03:45.59\00:03:49.39
The Lord didn't give us
the story of Rahab so that we
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could analyze her as a
poor, pathetic creature.
00:03:53.23\00:03:57.30
The Lord gave us the
story of Rahab because He says,
00:03:57.33\00:04:01.87
"Look at her,
she is a prostitute.
00:04:01.90\00:04:04.87
Look at her
choices, look at her life,
00:04:04.91\00:04:07.58
look at the way
that I redeemed her.
00:04:07.61\00:04:10.05
I picked her up out of the mire,
00:04:10.08\00:04:12.15
I'm the one who
set her on the rock.
00:04:12.18\00:04:14.38
I'm the one who set her free.
00:04:14.42\00:04:16.55
We're given the story
of Rahab not so that we can
00:04:16.58\00:04:19.72
congratulate
ourselves that we're not like
00:04:19.75\00:04:22.32
that poor, pathetic prostitute
because the reality is
00:04:22.36\00:04:26.36
that every single one of us
00:04:26.39\00:04:28.60
have prostituted
ourselves to the world.
00:04:28.63\00:04:31.27
Isn't it, "But for the
grace of God, there go I."
00:04:31.30\00:04:34.20
Absolutely, "there go
I." A famous line. Yes!
00:04:34.24\00:04:36.60
And, we're given her
story so that when we, too,
00:04:36.67\00:04:42.14
come to that understanding
that we have given ourselves
00:04:42.18\00:04:46.55
away to the world.
00:04:46.58\00:04:47.92
We can look at
a story like that;
00:04:47.95\00:04:49.55
we can
acknowledge what we've done;
00:04:49.58\00:04:51.39
we can fall on our faces,
and say, "Thank you Father,"
00:04:51.42\00:04:55.36
because just as
you redeemed Rahab,
00:04:55.39\00:04:58.26
I know you can do
the same thing for me."
00:04:58.29\00:05:01.26
Well isn't this
in the New Testament,
00:05:01.30\00:05:03.47
the story of
Mary, Mary Magdalene.
00:05:03.50\00:05:05.07
She was a
prostitute too, and Jesus drove
00:05:05.10\00:05:07.64
7 devils our of her
and yet He still loved her.
00:05:07.67\00:05:10.61
And then when she came in and
washed His feet with her tears,
00:05:10.64\00:05:15.34
that showed that
this was a sinner that was
00:05:15.38\00:05:20.05
still loved and
saved by grace. Yes!
00:05:20.12\00:05:22.05
And, again, just to give us
the context of this whole topic,
00:05:22.08\00:05:26.29
the statistics from what we've
learned are somewhere around
00:05:26.32\00:05:30.43
45 million babies are
being aborted every year,
00:05:30.46\00:05:34.10
around the world and in America,
it's over a million. Yes
00:05:34.10\00:05:38.70
In China, it's 13 million,
and so we're not dealing with
00:05:38.73\00:05:41.84
you know, when people go to
college, they typically will
00:05:41.87\00:05:44.44
take a minor and a major...
00:05:44.47\00:05:46.64
This is not a
minor subject! Right
00:05:46.68\00:05:48.78
And what, again, was the
percentage or the statistics
00:05:48.81\00:05:53.05
as far as how many
women, approximately in America,
00:05:53.08\00:05:56.65
will have an
abortion by the age of 45.
00:05:56.69\00:05:59.55
Didn't you give us
something like that a while ago?
00:05:59.59\00:06:01.59
Yes, it's over one-third
to one-half of all women
00:06:01.62\00:06:05.53
will have had an abortion
by the time she reaches 45.
00:06:05.56\00:06:07.93
So based on that, we're talking
almost half of all women. Yes
00:06:07.96\00:06:11.00
So this is a topic that
needs to be addressed. Yes, yes
00:06:11.03\00:06:15.67
And I'm so glad you're
doing it. Oh, thank you!
00:06:15.70\00:06:17.61
Well, and our desire
is that we would be bold,
00:06:17.64\00:06:20.48
we would
proclaim the truth boldly,
00:06:20.51\00:06:21.94
but we would always
proclaim the truth in love.
00:06:21.98\00:06:25.05
The glory of this
story, Rahab, Mary Magdalene,
00:06:25.08\00:06:28.32
is not that the Lord
can save even a prostitute,
00:06:28.35\00:06:30.92
even someone who has
fallen into sexual sin,
00:06:30.99\00:06:33.05
even a post-abortive woman...
00:06:33.09\00:06:34.96
The glory of the story
is that the Lord can save
00:06:34.99\00:06:37.53
even you and me - that
is the glory of the cross!
00:06:37.56\00:06:41.23
And when we look at this issue,
00:06:41.26\00:06:45.13
we need to remember the
person who struggles with pride
00:06:45.17\00:06:48.80
is just as guilty as the
woman who has had an abortion.
00:06:48.84\00:06:51.54
The person who indulges
in anger is just as guilty
00:06:51.57\00:06:54.81
as the woman who
has had an abortion.
00:06:54.84\00:06:56.31
The person who secretly
covets is just as guilty
00:06:56.34\00:06:59.21
as the woman who
has had an abortion.
00:06:59.25\00:07:00.95
Moreover, the men who
stood aside and abandoned their
00:07:00.98\00:07:05.49
wives, daughters,
girlfriends, sisters,
00:07:05.52\00:07:08.19
they're just as guilty as the
woman who engaged in the act.
00:07:08.22\00:07:11.59
All of our righteousness
is like filthy rags.
00:07:11.63\00:07:15.70
We are equal before
the foot of the cross.
00:07:15.73\00:07:19.53
The reason that when
He looks on us and He sees
00:07:19.57\00:07:22.37
righteousness, is
because of His Son.
00:07:22.40\00:07:25.47
It's absolutely glorious!
00:07:25.51\00:07:27.28
It's because of
Jesus and His grace. Yes!
00:07:27.31\00:07:28.64
And as you say...
guilty of abortion,
00:07:28.68\00:07:30.58
we have established,
I think pretty clearly,
00:07:30.65\00:07:32.98
biblically and scientifically
that a fetus is a person,
00:07:33.01\00:07:36.69
and we've looked at
the Ten Commandments,
00:07:36.72\00:07:38.62
we've looked at
the 6th Commandment,
00:07:38.65\00:07:39.99
"Do not kill," and it's pretty
clear to us, based on our study,
00:07:40.06\00:07:43.73
that the abortion
issue is really a sin issue.
00:07:43.76\00:07:47.40
There is a violation of
the 6th Commandment going on.
00:07:47.50\00:07:50.73
But once we put it in that
category which we need to do
00:07:50.77\00:07:53.23
because we've got to
be clear on this issue.
00:07:53.30\00:07:54.84
If we're not clear on
this, how can we reach out
00:07:54.87\00:07:57.47
redemptively to
those who have sinned,
00:07:57.51\00:07:59.71
so when we are clear on this
issue, then we also need to be
00:07:59.74\00:08:02.38
equally clear,
even more clear of,
00:08:02.41\00:08:05.01
I think the text is in 1
Timothy that Jesus Christ
00:08:05.05\00:08:07.68
came into the world
to save sinners. Yes
00:08:07.72\00:08:10.55
Paul said, "...
of whom I am chief."
00:08:10.62\00:08:11.95
And so we see the sin issue,
but then we see the Son issue,
00:08:11.99\00:08:14.76
and that Jesus... there is
no sin that He can't forgive,
00:08:14.79\00:08:17.83
and we've got to reach
out, we've got to be clear,
00:08:17.86\00:08:20.03
and we've got to have
the arms of love to reach out
00:08:20.06\00:08:23.26
because we're all
sinners and it's just, you know,
00:08:23.30\00:08:25.33
one sinner leading another
sinner to where they can bread,
00:08:25.37\00:08:28.34
and that's
another famous line. Yes
00:08:28.37\00:08:31.21
And the bread - Jesus is the
bread of life who loves us all.
00:08:31.24\00:08:33.98
Absolutely, absolutely!
00:08:34.01\00:08:35.61
Well, and I really
like that you brought up the
00:08:35.64\00:08:38.28
statistic again of how
many women are actually affected
00:08:38.31\00:08:41.35
by this issue because, again,
every single time I've spoken
00:08:41.38\00:08:45.32
about it and since Dianne has
come on board to be a part of
00:08:45.35\00:08:48.39
the ministry, every time
that we've ministered together
00:08:48.42\00:08:51.43
we meet women who
are post-abortive,
00:08:51.46\00:08:54.76
that is in the church and
it's outside of the church;
00:08:54.83\00:08:57.87
there is no difference.
00:08:57.90\00:08:59.87
The number of women
who are being affected,
00:08:59.90\00:09:02.00
the number of lives
that are being wrecked,
00:09:02.04\00:09:04.94
it's the same.
00:09:04.97\00:09:06.31
What's amazing - I praise
the Lord from the moment I
00:09:06.34\00:09:11.35
met Dianne, she
left an anonymous note on
00:09:11.38\00:09:14.25
my exhibit table - I
began praying for this woman
00:09:14.28\00:09:17.22
that the Lord
would set her free.
00:09:17.25\00:09:18.95
So you didn't actually
talk together when she first
00:09:18.99\00:09:20.62
saw your booth?
We did, we did talk,
00:09:20.69\00:09:22.42
but she came back and left
a note, but didn't sign it.
00:09:22.46\00:09:25.33
But I just put the two together,
I remembered who she was,
00:09:25.36\00:09:28.20
and a couple of
weeks later had written to
00:09:28.23\00:09:29.70
she and her husband to
follow up and thank her
00:09:29.73\00:09:31.63
for trusting me with just
a little bit of her story.
00:09:31.67\00:09:34.14
And that was just about
4 years ago, right? In 2011
00:09:34.17\00:09:36.64
And she said in our last
program that she suffered for
00:09:36.71\00:09:40.08
30 years dealing with the
guilt of what she had done
00:09:40.11\00:09:44.38
when she was 25.
00:09:44.41\00:09:46.15
Yes and that's a tragedy.
00:09:46.18\00:09:48.05
It's a tragedy and what's
so remarkable is the way that
00:09:48.08\00:09:51.82
now when she speaks
and when she shares,
00:09:51.85\00:09:54.69
she is literally a
victory banner that waves
00:09:54.72\00:09:58.09
because what the enemy intended
for totally destruction,
00:09:58.13\00:10:01.63
the Lord has said, "No more,
and not this time, I redeem."
00:10:01.66\00:10:06.30
And we sin and we need a
Savior, but we serve a God
00:10:06.33\00:10:11.14
of redemption and that's
what she is now, she is the most
00:10:11.17\00:10:14.38
magnificent testimony to the
redemptive power of the Lord.
00:10:14.41\00:10:18.18
But we can't fail to remember
though and that's why I'm so
00:10:18.21\00:10:21.58
glad you brought up that
statistic, is that there are
00:10:21.62\00:10:23.79
thousands upon thousands
of women who are just like
00:10:23.85\00:10:27.42
Dianne was - they are
treading water, they are barely
00:10:27.46\00:10:30.79
surviving - they are
desperate to believe in the dark
00:10:30.83\00:10:33.86
watches of the night
that the grace of the Lord
00:10:33.90\00:10:36.36
really is sufficient for them.
00:10:36.40\00:10:38.60
And there's more than
thousands, there are millions!
00:10:38.63\00:10:42.54
Yeah, millions
around the world certainly!
00:10:42.57\00:10:45.41
And for the church, we
need to understand these women
00:10:45.44\00:10:49.98
fill our pews every weekend.
00:10:50.01\00:10:52.35
They're not just out there in
the world, they are very close.
00:10:52.38\00:10:56.25
They are right next to us.
00:10:56.28\00:10:57.65
And they've buried this
guilt way down inside. Yes
00:10:57.69\00:11:02.02
And unless somebody
talks about it like you did
00:11:02.06\00:11:05.79
at the booth and then Dianne
saw you and came to your booth,
00:11:05.83\00:11:10.43
and left that note and that
started all of this which led
00:11:10.47\00:11:13.50
to her being here
and her testimony.
00:11:13.54\00:11:16.24
If you would not have
been there talking about it,
00:11:16.27\00:11:18.57
this never would have happened.
00:11:18.61\00:11:20.64
Well, by the grace of the Lord.
00:11:20.68\00:11:22.48
I mean, I'm a
sinner saved by grace,
00:11:22.51\00:11:24.21
and the Lord has
given me a story to tell.
00:11:24.25\00:11:26.51
He is using you.
Well, praise the Lord!
00:11:26.55\00:11:29.08
Yes, and I think He
wants to use story after story
00:11:29.12\00:11:32.19
after story to add one
to another to testify to His
00:11:32.22\00:11:35.82
redeeming love.
00:11:35.86\00:11:37.19
What I hope that, through this
series, we've established is
00:11:37.23\00:11:40.96
that as we embrace our duty,
as we embrace this calling to
00:11:40.96\00:11:44.83
to be a conduit, a vessel
through which the redemptive
00:11:44.87\00:11:48.44
grace of the Lord can
flow... meaning this message of
00:11:48.47\00:11:51.47
redemption, this
message of healing can go out.
00:11:51.51\00:11:54.11
I hope that we can see
that speaking about the sanctity
00:11:54.14\00:11:58.71
of life, the value of the
unborn, the value of the woman,
00:11:58.75\00:12:02.08
the sanctity of life because
we're made in the image of God;
00:12:02.12\00:12:05.69
I hope people see that it does
not condemn, it doesn't shame
00:12:05.72\00:12:10.83
post-abortive men and women.
00:12:10.86\00:12:12.59
What we're doing is we
are inviting people to accept
00:12:12.63\00:12:15.73
this truth, that the
unborn child was intrinsically
00:12:15.76\00:12:20.00
valuable, that this woman,
this man who were part of this
00:12:20.04\00:12:24.64
abortion experience, they
too are intrinsically valuable.
00:12:24.67\00:12:28.34
And still are... And,
yes and though they've
00:12:28.38\00:12:31.41
done what cannot be
undone, just like we have done
00:12:31.45\00:12:35.62
what cannot be
undone, a Savior waits...
00:12:35.65\00:12:38.89
He's offering joy,
healing, freedom beyond their
00:12:38.92\00:12:42.36
wildest imaginations.
00:12:42.39\00:12:44.23
Right, you know I want
to inject in here... Sure
00:12:44.29\00:12:47.36
It seems to me as I've studied
this and thought about this,
00:12:47.40\00:12:50.10
getting ready
for these programs,
00:12:50.13\00:12:51.63
one thing that really hit
me is the fact that whenever
00:12:51.67\00:12:55.74
God, historically, is
about to do something,
00:12:55.77\00:12:58.87
or at least we have 2 examples
of Him about to do something
00:12:58.91\00:13:01.48
BIG, then the devil
hits and kills children.
00:13:01.51\00:13:06.55
The exodus - when God
was getting ready to bring
00:13:06.58\00:13:09.08
Israel out of Egypt,
Moses was about to be born,
00:13:09.12\00:13:12.32
getting ready to
give the Ten Commandments
00:13:12.35\00:13:14.32
when Israel came out of
Egypt and the establishment of
00:13:14.36\00:13:16.83
Israel as a nation, His
nation in Egypt, the devil
00:13:16.86\00:13:21.73
motivated Pharaoh to
pass a law to kill all the
00:13:21.76\00:13:25.37
baby boys of the
Israelites, and Moses escaped.
00:13:25.40\00:13:30.17
But you see the devil
killing the kids and then Moses
00:13:30.21\00:13:33.11
escaping because of God.
00:13:33.14\00:13:34.48
The same thing
happened in the New Testament...
00:13:34.51\00:13:35.91
When Jesus was born and the
greatest event about the happen,
00:13:35.94\00:13:38.68
was the plan of salvation
was coming to fruition,
00:13:38.71\00:13:42.05
Herod sent his soldiers
to kill all the babies in
00:13:42.08\00:13:47.89
Bethlehem that
were under 2 years old,
00:13:47.96\00:13:49.29
that we call "the
slaughter of the innocents."
00:13:49.32\00:13:51.83
So with the exodus and
with the birth of Christ,
00:13:51.86\00:13:54.13
you see the devil at
war with children. Yes
00:13:54.20\00:13:58.00
And I believe that
in these last days,
00:13:58.03\00:14:01.37
the devil is going
to do the same thing.
00:14:01.40\00:14:03.51
Who knows - all these
millions of babies, who knows
00:14:03.54\00:14:06.01
how many of them God
had planned or wanted them
00:14:06.04\00:14:09.81
to do some
incredible work for Him.
00:14:09.84\00:14:12.58
And the devil, he is at war,
he is killing kids who are born,
00:14:12.61\00:14:18.02
and who aren't born and
we are in the middle of a
00:14:18.05\00:14:20.36
great controversy and
it is time just to speak,
00:14:20.39\00:14:23.56
it is time for the church
to rise up and to be God's
00:14:23.63\00:14:26.80
redemptive voice in the
middle of this terrible crisis
00:14:26.83\00:14:31.03
And to help, to
heal and to save. Yes
00:14:31.07\00:14:34.44
And if we refuse, if
we choose to stay silent,
00:14:34.47\00:14:40.14
if we refuse to
lead people to the light
00:14:40.18\00:14:43.21
either as individuals or
as the church either by our
00:14:43.24\00:14:45.98
silence - just not talking
about it or by our apathy
00:14:46.01\00:14:50.95
because it's just
too much to deal with,
00:14:50.99\00:14:53.25
we are going to be a hindrance
to people finding freedom
00:14:53.32\00:14:57.73
and forgiveness
to the very people
00:14:57.76\00:15:00.23
who so desperately need it.
00:15:00.26\00:15:02.06
It's absolutely phenomenal
the call that we've been given
00:15:02.10\00:15:05.40
as believers to lead
other people to the light;
00:15:05.43\00:15:08.87
moreover, for women like
Dianne who were so keenly aware
00:15:08.90\00:15:13.71
of the sin, she didn't really
need to be told it was sin,
00:15:13.78\00:15:16.98
she knew; she was burned
with guilt, burned with shame.
00:15:17.05\00:15:19.55
But, for someone
like her, what was silence
00:15:19.58\00:15:23.39
really telling her?
00:15:23.42\00:15:25.42
They know that grace and
redemption - it's available
00:15:25.45\00:15:28.72
for the thief, for the
adulterer, for the bank robber,
00:15:28.76\00:15:33.33
but what about someone who has
taken the life of their child?
00:15:33.40\00:15:36.56
Is redemption
available for me too?
00:15:36.63\00:15:38.60
And if we stay silent, aren't
we missing something that's so
00:15:38.63\00:15:42.80
incredibly important?
00:15:42.84\00:15:44.37
Our silence is cold,
it's hard, it's unforgiving...
00:15:44.41\00:15:47.71
And the Lord said, "Be a light
that sets the captive free."
00:15:47.74\00:15:51.65
And you know, we can
also mess up by not seeing it
00:15:51.68\00:15:54.68
as a sin in the first place. Yes
00:15:54.72\00:15:56.99
As seeing it being just
the exercise of the woman's
00:15:57.05\00:15:59.49
free choice which
we will support. Yes
00:15:59.52\00:16:03.89
If we see it that way,
then we don't understand
00:16:03.96\00:16:06.73
that it's a sin
issue... we don't see the guilt,
00:16:06.76\00:16:08.43
we don't see the pain and
we're out to lunch - really,
00:16:08.46\00:16:13.54
if we don't understand
the reality of the issue
00:16:13.57\00:16:17.21
in light of Scripture
and the Ten Commandments,
00:16:17.24\00:16:19.47
and the cross of Jesus Christ.
00:16:19.51\00:16:21.08
Yes... through us the Lord
is literally extending His hand.
00:16:21.11\00:16:25.08
He is literally extending
His hand so that people
00:16:25.11\00:16:28.32
can know they have been
wonderfully gloriously redeemed.
00:16:28.35\00:16:32.72
And so when the
enemy comes against them,
00:16:32.75\00:16:35.19
when he sits at their
shoulder, and he's accusing,
00:16:35.22\00:16:38.16
and he's mocking,
and he is condemning,
00:16:38.19\00:16:40.50
and you can literally feel
the roar rising in your ears
00:16:40.53\00:16:43.87
because all you can hear
are his words of condemnation,
00:16:43.93\00:16:46.80
women who have confessed
this surrender to the Lord,
00:16:46.84\00:16:50.67
they can turn to him and
say, "I've been redeemed,
00:16:50.71\00:16:53.94
I have been redeemed!"
00:16:53.98\00:16:56.71
We're not redeemed
because we've never sinned.
00:16:56.75\00:17:00.05
We're not redeemed because
we've done nothing wrong.
00:17:00.08\00:17:02.68
We're not redeemed because
we've always been obedient.
00:17:02.72\00:17:05.72
Because we're
good enough... Exactly!
00:17:05.75\00:17:08.12
We're redeemed because
we're covered by the blood,
00:17:08.16\00:17:10.76
and all we need know is
the answer to that question...
00:17:10.79\00:17:14.10
"Have I been
redeemed?" As people who have
00:17:14.13\00:17:17.47
accepted the free gift
of forgiveness who say,
00:17:17.50\00:17:20.67
"I stand on Your
promise of forgiveness
00:17:20.74\00:17:23.24
and Your promise alone."
00:17:23.27\00:17:24.64
Praise the Lord, we can say,
00:17:24.67\00:17:26.44
"Yes, we have been
redeemed." Wow, That's powerful.
00:17:26.47\00:17:29.64
You need to just keep
on keeping on Antionette,
00:17:29.68\00:17:32.78
and keep on doing
what you are doing,
00:17:32.81\00:17:34.15
and I'm thrilled
that "White Horse Media"
00:17:34.22\00:17:35.95
has a part in giving you
a voice, and Dianne a voice,
00:17:35.98\00:17:40.26
in as wide a sphere as possible
of redemption. Praise the Lord!
00:17:40.29\00:17:44.53
It also reminds me of Jonah.
00:17:44.56\00:17:47.40
Jonah had a call
from God to go to Nineveh
00:17:47.40\00:17:50.63
and do a mission and
he went the other way.
00:17:50.67\00:17:52.30
He sinned, he didn't want to
do what God wanted him to do,
00:17:52.33\00:17:55.57
and then the whole
story eventually got swallowed
00:17:55.60\00:17:57.41
by a fish, and I really
like the fact at the end
00:17:57.47\00:17:59.57
of the 3 days in the darkness,
the slime of the whale's body,
00:17:59.61\00:18:06.75
then it says in
Jonah 2, I believe it is,
00:18:06.78\00:18:09.08
that the whale or
the fish spit him out,
00:18:09.12\00:18:14.76
and when he got back on
the land, he probably looked
00:18:14.79\00:18:16.76
horrible... I mean, you
know, his skin was white,
00:18:16.79\00:18:18.69
he hadn't seen the sun.
00:18:18.73\00:18:20.06
And then it says
that "The word of the Lord
00:18:20.13\00:18:22.60
came to Jonah a
second time, and He said,
00:18:22.63\00:18:25.90
"Rise, go to
Nineveh," and so that shows that
00:18:25.93\00:18:28.67
even though we've
sinned, and there are so many
00:18:28.70\00:18:30.54
examples in the Bible,
even though we've sinned
00:18:30.61\00:18:32.37
that God still loves
us, He still calls us,
00:18:32.41\00:18:35.44
and we want that
message to go out. Absolutely!
00:18:35.48\00:18:38.58
That no matter
how much we've sinned,
00:18:38.61\00:18:40.52
Jesus Christ came into
the world to save sinners
00:18:40.55\00:18:43.82
Paul said, "of whom I am chief."
00:18:43.89\00:18:46.25
And he was killing Christians!
00:18:46.29\00:18:48.89
Not just, you know, we're
not even talking about with him,
00:18:48.92\00:18:51.06
the unborn, he was
killing grown up Christians,
00:18:51.09\00:18:54.46
or at least
leading to their death.
00:18:54.50\00:18:56.06
And the Lord knocked
him down, turned him around,
00:18:56.10\00:18:58.33
and said, "Go and
be My ambassador."
00:18:58.37\00:19:00.87
Yes, yes he did. I
love that you bring up
00:19:00.90\00:19:02.94
the story of Jonah...
you know Psalm 107 has
00:19:02.97\00:19:05.67
become one of my favorite
chapters because it expresses
00:19:05.71\00:19:11.31
people messing up,
making mistakes, and yet
00:19:11.35\00:19:15.95
crying out to the Lord,
and the Lord coming for them.
00:19:15.98\00:19:19.22
I would love to read this
passage just very briefly,
00:19:19.25\00:19:23.09
Psalm 107:10-
I'll start at verse 10.
00:19:23.12\00:19:30.37
"Those who sat in
darkness in the shadow of death,
00:19:30.40\00:19:33.34
bound in affliction and irons
because they rebelled against
00:19:33.37\00:19:36.84
the words of God and despised
the counsel of the Most High,
00:19:36.91\00:19:40.08
Therefore He brought
down their heart with labor;
00:19:40.11\00:19:42.48
They fell down and
there was none to help.
00:19:42.51\00:19:45.25
Then they cried out to
the Lord in their trouble,
00:19:45.28\00:19:47.72
And He saved them
out of their distresses.
00:19:47.75\00:19:50.52
He brought them out of darkness
and the shadow of death,
00:19:50.59\00:19:54.16
And broke their
chains in pieces.
00:19:54.19\00:19:56.86
Oh that men would give thanks
to the Lord for His goodness."
00:19:56.93\00:19:59.93
... And women. AMEN and
women! And for His wonderful
00:20:00.00\00:20:03.13
works to the children of
men for He has broken the gates
00:20:03.16\00:20:05.87
of bronze and cut
the bars of iron in two."
00:20:05.90\00:20:08.84
That is a promise to us
that though we have sinned;
00:20:08.87\00:20:13.64
though we've run from the Lord;
though we've just messed up,
00:20:13.68\00:20:17.21
we can cry out to Him
again, and again, and again,
00:20:17.25\00:20:20.72
and He will come for
us... That's what He does!
00:20:20.78\00:20:23.85
He comes, He rescues,
He redeems, He restores!
00:20:23.89\00:20:27.62
Here's another text
that just came to me...
00:20:27.66\00:20:29.49
Psalm 40:1, "I waited
patiently for the Lord,
00:20:29.52\00:20:32.49
and He inclined to
me, He heard my cry.
00:20:32.53\00:20:34.76
He also brought me up
out of the horrible pit,
00:20:34.83\00:20:37.70
out of the miry clay and
He set my feet upon a rock.
00:20:37.73\00:20:40.90
He established my steps.
00:20:40.94\00:20:42.27
He put a new song in my
mouth. Praise to our God!
00:20:42.30\00:20:44.47
Many will see it and fear,
and will trust in the Lord."
00:20:44.51\00:20:47.54
Amen! Praise God! Amen!
00:20:47.61\00:20:49.84
And the story of
Peter, I think as well,
00:20:49.88\00:20:52.71
is also so powerful
here for me in my own journey
00:20:52.75\00:20:57.75
of running from the
Lord and coming back.
00:20:57.79\00:21:00.79
As I was coming
back to the Lord,
00:21:00.86\00:21:02.29
surrendering my
life back to Him,
00:21:02.32\00:21:04.33
I heard a sermon
on the story on Peter,
00:21:04.36\00:21:07.10
and you think about Peter...
00:21:07.13\00:21:08.93
He was sort of like a forest
that was larger than life.
00:21:08.96\00:21:11.90
He was fierce; he was
courageous, he was bold,
00:21:11.93\00:21:17.91
and he literally was
right next to the Lord.
00:21:17.94\00:21:21.71
He looked in His
face; he ate next to Him;
00:21:21.74\00:21:23.91
he slept beside Him;
he interacted with Him
00:21:23.95\00:21:27.52
for 3 years; he
literally breathed in His air,
00:21:27.58\00:21:31.09
and the Lord told him, "Peter,
you're going to deny Me."
00:21:31.12\00:21:34.36
And what did he
say... "I will never
00:21:34.39\00:21:35.72
deny you, I'll never deny you."
00:21:35.76\00:21:37.09
And what happened?
He denied the Lord.
00:21:37.13\00:21:40.46
He broke His heart,
and yet the Lord brought
00:21:40.50\00:21:45.17
him back!
00:21:45.20\00:21:46.53
What was so significant about
00:21:46.57\00:21:49.20
Peter's story is
that he was broken.
00:21:49.24\00:21:52.01
He was completely
broken before the Lord.
00:21:52.04\00:21:55.34
"He wept
bitterly," the Word says.
00:21:55.38\00:21:58.41
And it was after
having been broken that Peter
00:21:58.45\00:22:02.25
truly became useful.
00:22:02.28\00:22:04.72
Yeah, and you know, I
think what really hit Peter
00:22:04.75\00:22:08.36
was after the resurrection
that the angel told,
00:22:08.39\00:22:13.23
I think it was one of the women,
00:22:13.26\00:22:14.76
"Go tell the disciples and tell
00:22:14.83\00:22:17.90
Peter that He is going
to meet you in Galilee."
00:22:17.93\00:22:21.17
And when Peter heard
that, that the angel mentioned
00:22:21.20\00:22:24.27
his name... that Jesus
still loves him personally. Wow!
00:22:24.31\00:22:30.51
That really broke him down. Yes!
00:22:30.55\00:22:34.22
And for us, you know, we
look at the things in our lives
00:22:34.28\00:22:38.42
that we've done that
are shameful that we never
00:22:38.45\00:22:41.49
should have done - that
grieved the Lord's heart.
00:22:41.52\00:22:43.69
And I heard an example,
I heard an example given
00:22:43.73\00:22:48.26
about stained glass.
00:22:48.30\00:22:50.50
Stained glass, when we
look at it, it is so beautiful,
00:22:50.53\00:22:53.50
and we look at
pictures of stained glass;
00:22:53.57\00:22:55.94
you walk through churches
and see the stained glass,
00:22:55.97\00:22:57.64
and you're just in
awe of the beauty there.
00:22:57.67\00:22:59.64
The way that they make stained
glass is they break up glass,
00:22:59.67\00:23:03.18
and they fit it back
together, and when the light
00:23:03.21\00:23:06.28
shines through, it shines
through the broken places,
00:23:06.31\00:23:10.22
and that is why the
stained glass is beautiful.
00:23:10.29\00:23:13.36
That is what the Lord does,
He redeems and He restores.
00:23:13.39\00:23:17.86
He takes our brokenness;
He takes our mistakes;
00:23:17.89\00:23:20.83
He takes our past and He fits
it together to weave a story
00:23:20.90\00:23:24.63
that He is telling if
we will submit to Him.
00:23:24.67\00:23:27.70
Wow - yeah, it's
amazing, and we're all broken.
00:23:27.74\00:23:30.61
We all have a past and
if we don't realize it,
00:23:30.67\00:23:32.67
then our eyes aren't really
open to see the significance
00:23:32.71\00:23:36.08
of our own sin, the seriousness
00:23:36.11\00:23:37.45
of our own sin and
our need for Jesus,
00:23:37.51\00:23:39.45
and I mean this is
just powerful information.
00:23:39.48\00:23:42.02
You know, we just so
often, like we've talked about,
00:23:42.05\00:23:46.12
this is a topic that we
just bury, that women bury,
00:23:46.15\00:23:50.69
and that men bury too
because, as you've mentioned,
00:23:50.73\00:23:52.83
men are involved; it's
not just a woman's issue,
00:23:52.86\00:23:56.16
it's a men issue
too, and there needs to be
00:23:56.20\00:24:00.64
a voice in the
wilderness talking about this.
00:24:00.67\00:24:05.14
And what we hope,
is that people will...
00:24:05.17\00:24:07.18
that we'll just see as a
people, not just post-abortive,
00:24:07.21\00:24:10.75
but everyone that...
00:24:10.78\00:24:12.21
You know in
Hebrews 12:2, it says that,
00:24:12.25\00:24:15.15
"For the joy that was set before
Him, Jesus endured the cross."
00:24:15.18\00:24:18.95
Well, what was
that joy? It was us!
00:24:18.99\00:24:22.29
He literally looked down through
the ages and He saw our need.
00:24:22.32\00:24:25.99
He saw our brokenness.
00:24:26.03\00:24:27.76
He anticipated how
much we would need Him,
00:24:27.76\00:24:30.73
and He said, "I'm not
going to leave you alone,
00:24:30.77\00:24:33.74
I'm going to come for you."
00:24:33.80\00:24:35.44
And He didn't just
anticipate our need...
00:24:35.47\00:24:38.57
He anticipated our redemption.
00:24:38.61\00:24:41.81
He knew that I would need Him.
00:24:41.84\00:24:43.75
He knew that I
would need to be redeemed.
00:24:43.81\00:24:45.48
He knew that
Dianne would need Him.
00:24:45.51\00:24:46.88
He knew that Dianne
would need to be redeemed.
00:24:46.92\00:24:48.62
He literally
anticipated our redemption,
00:24:48.65\00:24:51.19
and He stretched out
His arms and said, "For you,
00:24:51.22\00:24:54.02
I'm not coming down,"
and He held on to the cross
00:24:54.06\00:24:58.06
though we broke His heart,
so that He could be reconciled
00:24:58.09\00:25:01.76
to us, we could
be reconciled to Him.
00:25:01.80\00:25:04.30
That's absolutely
phenomenal. Wow, wow...
00:25:04.33\00:25:06.60
And one last thing, in
Romans 8:28-29, it says,
00:25:06.63\00:25:13.38
"All things work together for
good to those who love the God
00:25:13.41\00:25:15.51
and are called
according to His purpose."
00:25:15.54\00:25:17.55
For whom He foreknew,
He predestined to conform
00:25:17.58\00:25:21.28
to the image of His Son.
00:25:21.32\00:25:22.92
That "all" there,
there is no qualifier...
00:25:22.95\00:25:27.19
"All things work
together for good."
00:25:27.26\00:25:29.09
That "all" isn't just sugar
and sweetness, all the nice
00:25:29.12\00:25:32.23
things you've done and
it's not just all the bad things
00:25:32.26\00:25:35.96
that have been done to you...
00:25:36.00\00:25:37.47
It will all work
together for good.
00:25:37.53\00:25:39.10
He says, "All things
work together for good
00:25:39.13\00:25:42.00
to those who love
God and are called
00:25:42.04\00:25:43.87
according to His purpose."
00:25:43.91\00:25:45.51
That means your past;
it means your fumblings;
00:25:45.54\00:25:48.08
it means your failures;
it means your mistakes.
00:25:48.11\00:25:50.01
And your sins... AND your sins!
00:25:50.05\00:25:52.45
Working together
to the glory of God.
00:25:52.48\00:25:55.32
Now are we to walk according
to the light we've been given?
00:25:55.35\00:25:58.59
Absolutely!
00:25:58.62\00:26:00.22
Does that just mean
we're supposed to sin?
00:26:00.29\00:26:02.46
No, not at all,
but we serve a God
00:26:02.49\00:26:05.29
who is sovereign.
00:26:05.33\00:26:06.86
There's a reason He promises
00:26:06.93\00:26:08.43
to restore what
the locusts have eaten.
00:26:08.46\00:26:10.37
There is a reason He promises
to give beauty for ashes.
00:26:10.40\00:26:13.54
What there
something you wanted to say?
00:26:13.57\00:26:16.57
I'm just... There's so
much we both would like to say.
00:26:16.60\00:26:20.78
Okay... But I do want to say,
00:26:20.81\00:26:22.31
we're just about out of time.
00:26:22.34\00:26:24.25
So, I want to finish
with this Bible verse
00:26:24.28\00:26:27.22
that just is an
appeal to the church.
00:26:27.25\00:26:29.65
This is Romans
10:14, Paul wrote,
00:26:29.68\00:26:33.25
"How then shall they call on Him
in whom they have not believed?
00:26:33.29\00:26:37.03
How shall they believe in
Him in whom they have not heard?
00:26:37.06\00:26:40.20
How shall they
hear without a preacher?
00:26:40.23\00:26:41.83
And how shall they
preach unless they are sent?
00:26:41.86\00:26:45.57
As it is written, how
beautiful are the feet of those
00:26:45.60\00:26:49.37
who preach the gospel of peace
00:26:49.40\00:26:51.74
and who bring glad
tidings of good news."
00:26:51.77\00:26:56.41
This is not the time for God's
00:26:56.44\00:26:59.35
church to be
silent on this issue.
00:26:59.38\00:27:01.05
There is a time to be a
silent, and a time to speak.
00:27:01.08\00:27:03.18
This is the time for
God's people to speak.
00:27:03.22\00:27:06.55
This is the work of the church.
00:27:06.59\00:27:08.12
It's part of the
work of the church.
00:27:08.16\00:27:09.72
It embraces the
work of the church.
00:27:09.76\00:27:12.19
And there's an old hymn
that says something like...
00:27:12.23\00:27:14.13
"Rise up oh church of God
00:27:14.20\00:27:16.53
and take a stand for
Jesus in these last days."
00:27:16.56\00:27:19.97
May God help us to be
faithful to this calling.
00:27:20.04\00:27:24.01
Dianne Wagner shares
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00:27:24.04\00:27:27.18
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