Abortion is perfectly
legal, and yet countless
00:00:08.47\00:00:12.34
men and women have suffered
terribly when the reality
00:00:12.37\00:00:15.81
finally hit them that they
have chosen to take the life
00:00:15.84\00:00:19.25
of their own innocent child.
00:00:19.28\00:00:22.22
Is true healing really possible?
00:00:22.25\00:00:25.02
The answer is YES!
00:00:25.09\00:00:27.12
Next on "The
Abortion Controversy"
00:00:27.16\00:00:30.29
Thank you for tuning in to
part 11 of a 13-part series
00:00:59.82\00:01:03.22
called: "The
Abortion Controversy"
00:01:03.26\00:01:05.23
We are dealing with huge issues.
00:01:05.26\00:01:07.50
Today, again, my
guest is Dianne Wagner.
00:01:07.50\00:01:10.13
She had two
abortions, she has suffered more
00:01:10.17\00:01:13.17
than I'll ever
know or you'll ever know
00:01:13.20\00:01:15.07
or anybody except God
really will ever know,
00:01:15.10\00:01:17.84
and yet she has
truly found healing.
00:01:17.87\00:01:20.18
And today, she's going to
go into some of the details
00:01:20.24\00:01:22.74
that she has not shared before
00:01:22.78\00:01:24.15
as to how she
found that healing.
00:01:24.21\00:01:26.41
Dianne, wow, before we
came together this time
00:01:26.45\00:01:31.75
I know you were outside
taking a walk, you were praying,
00:01:31.79\00:01:34.76
spending time with God,
getting ready for this segment,
00:01:34.79\00:01:39.09
and I'm sure
it's very emotional,
00:01:39.13\00:01:41.10
but let me just
hold your hand here.
00:01:41.13\00:01:43.16
Thank you for your courage to
be willing to talk about this.
00:01:43.20\00:01:49.54
And a lot of people need
this, and as you have told me,
00:01:49.57\00:01:52.01
women have come to you
in the past telling you
00:01:52.04\00:01:54.98
how grateful they are
that you have actually opened
00:01:55.01\00:01:58.31
up and that you
are talking about this.
00:01:58.35\00:02:00.82
That's what motivates
me to keep telling my story
00:02:00.85\00:02:04.55
because of people's response
00:02:04.59\00:02:06.52
to it and that's
what has brought me here.
00:02:06.55\00:02:09.89
Thank you for your
invitation... Your welcome
00:02:09.92\00:02:12.09
You know, I have experienced
the Lord's redemptive
00:02:12.13\00:02:15.20
power in my life
like I never knew existed,
00:02:15.23\00:02:18.00
and it has made a
huge impact on me.
00:02:18.03\00:02:23.10
I know what God means
now when He says that...
00:02:23.14\00:02:25.54
"All things can work
together for the good."
00:02:25.57\00:02:27.88
You know the things
that we may be victim to
00:02:27.91\00:02:31.05
and had no choice or say,
and the things that we suffer
00:02:31.08\00:02:35.02
because of the choice we
made or a decision we made,
00:02:35.05\00:02:38.59
that He can make all things
work together for the good."
00:02:38.62\00:02:41.56
What a promise! I love that!
00:02:41.59\00:02:45.19
I think Peter... just quickly,
he denied Jesus 3 times.
00:02:45.23\00:02:49.50
The Bible says he wept
bitterly, and yet the Lord
00:02:49.53\00:02:52.57
still loved him and He
used that situation to turn
00:02:52.60\00:02:55.87
Peter's life so far around
that on the Day of Pentecost,
00:02:55.90\00:02:59.21
God was able to use him to
change and convert 3,000 people.
00:02:59.24\00:03:03.75
So God can take evil
and He can turn it around,
00:03:03.78\00:03:07.02
and He can bring good
out of it. That's right!
00:03:07.05\00:03:09.08
He is a wonderful God!
00:03:09.12\00:03:10.52
The Lord reigns! That's right!
00:03:10.59\00:03:12.52
Well, how I looked at it
was... that God created us,
00:03:12.55\00:03:19.33
and He had this plan
of salvation in place
00:03:19.36\00:03:21.96
before we even needed it.
00:03:22.00\00:03:23.43
He sees those
sins we try to hide;
00:03:23.47\00:03:27.14
He watched as His Son's
beard was being plucked out;
00:03:27.20\00:03:30.11
His face spit at...
You know, that same God
00:03:30.17\00:03:33.64
loves even me,
after seeing all this,
00:03:33.68\00:03:38.75
and I know that that same
God has the power to not only
00:03:38.78\00:03:46.92
forgive, but to restore a
post-abortive woman or man,
00:03:46.96\00:03:51.66
someone who has taken the life
of the most innocent of us all,
00:03:51.69\00:03:55.46
you know, her own
baby... That's a hard one.
00:03:55.50\00:04:00.14
And I don't think it's
humanly possible for us to even
00:04:00.17\00:04:02.77
grasp that kind of
love, it's supernatural.
00:04:02.80\00:04:05.94
It's beyond what
humans, in themselves,
00:04:05.97\00:04:09.14
can give or
understand. It's huge
00:04:09.18\00:04:13.05
You've told us some of
the details in the past,
00:04:13.08\00:04:15.98
but you're going to go
into some new territory today.
00:04:16.02\00:04:19.25
Yeah, I gave my heart
to the Lord when I was 15,
00:04:19.29\00:04:21.69
and I know the Lord was with me,
00:04:21.72\00:04:24.13
and the Lord was jealous for me;
00:04:24.16\00:04:25.59
He wanted to be the
One to take care of me.
00:04:25.63\00:04:27.96
But as I got
older, I made decisions,
00:04:27.96\00:04:30.83
I didn't seek
the Lord for wisdom;
00:04:30.87\00:04:32.90
I sought the world's wisdom.
00:04:32.93\00:04:34.87
And I made choices that
alienated me because of sin.
00:04:34.90\00:04:41.38
And I love the thought
that... you've read the text,
00:04:41.41\00:04:44.88
"the gateway of hope,"
and He waited at that gateway
00:04:44.91\00:04:47.95
of hope for me even when I
was alienated because of sin.
00:04:47.98\00:04:52.65
He never gave up on me,
00:04:52.69\00:04:54.69
and that makes me
fall more in love with Him.
00:04:54.72\00:04:58.83
So, I told you
how we met Antionette,
00:04:58.86\00:05:02.16
my husband and I, at
the 2011 GYC in Houston,
00:05:02.20\00:05:07.44
and she had this ministry
for the post-abortive...
00:05:07.47\00:05:12.17
She had a booth there...
Right, right and I saw that...
00:05:12.21\00:05:14.54
And I had always
avoided pro life movements
00:05:14.58\00:05:17.88
because of past experiences
that were very hurtful.
00:05:17.91\00:05:21.58
And, like you said, I had
had two abortions in my life
00:05:21.62\00:05:25.49
at that time - it
had been 30 years...
00:05:25.52\00:05:28.89
And when I saw that
booth, for the very first time,
00:05:28.92\00:05:31.76
I allowed myself to go up
there and look at pictures
00:05:31.79\00:05:35.83
of babies, the ages that mine
were when I had them aborted,
00:05:35.86\00:05:40.30
and I had never
allowed myself to do that,
00:05:40.34\00:05:42.20
even though I had
already experienced
00:05:42.24\00:05:43.71
the Lord's forgiveness
and I knew, by faith,
00:05:43.77\00:05:46.54
that the Lord had forgiven
me, there was all this baggage,
00:05:46.57\00:05:50.01
the consequences that
I had never dealt with.
00:05:50.05\00:05:53.05
And no one knew how
to help me deal with that
00:05:53.08\00:05:55.35
up until this
point. Even in the church?
00:05:55.38\00:05:57.39
No, you know you very
rarely hear of the subject
00:05:57.45\00:06:01.99
of abortion brought up...
And we've talked about that.
00:06:02.02\00:06:03.49
I have a growing conviction
that the Church of Jesus Christ
00:06:04.36\00:06:08.13
needs to deal with this issue
because it's such a big issue.
00:06:08.16\00:06:11.97
It's such a real issue;
it's a Ten Commandment issue;
00:06:12.00\00:06:13.94
it's a sin issue;
it's a grace issue;
00:06:13.97\00:06:15.97
it's a hurting
issue; it's a people issue.
00:06:16.00\00:06:18.34
And Jesus wants to reach out to
people right where they're at.
00:06:18.37\00:06:23.21
Exactly! And
there's a lot of women
00:06:23.24\00:06:24.81
who are right where you
were, and they need Jesus
00:06:24.85\00:06:28.22
through the church to
deal with this issue...
00:06:28.25\00:06:29.95
That's right. ...and
not to just avoid it.
00:06:30.02\00:06:31.65
Let the church be a
refuge and a resource. Right
00:06:31.69\00:06:35.66
As well as the standard bearer
that we were talking about.
00:06:35.69\00:06:38.89
Well after meeting Antionette,
as I've told you before,
00:06:38.93\00:06:43.33
I left that hall and I cried
when I left the exhibit hall
00:06:43.37\00:06:46.90
that night... I mean,
my heart was breaking!
00:06:46.94\00:06:49.97
And I knew that there
were unresolved issues;
00:06:50.01\00:06:53.84
things that I had not
confronted yet when it came to
00:06:53.88\00:06:56.71
the subject of my abortions.
00:06:56.75\00:06:59.21
And, I started doing research
about it because Antionette
00:06:59.25\00:07:04.02
had talked about the redemptive
healing that the Lord has,
00:07:04.05\00:07:07.09
you know and the value and
the intrinsic value and so much
00:07:07.12\00:07:11.29
enthusiasm... as you
know. She's pretty bubbly!
00:07:11.33\00:07:14.86
She is and it made
me jealous for that.
00:07:14.93\00:07:17.50
I wanted that, I knew something
was missing in my life,
00:07:17.57\00:07:21.14
so I started doing research
on the post-abortive woman.
00:07:21.17\00:07:25.67
And I came across a ministry
called, "Rachel's Vineyard."
00:07:25.71\00:07:32.91
Now "Rachel's Vineyard" was
started by Dr. Theresa Burke,.
00:07:32.95\00:07:37.69
and actually, I think when she
was working on her doctorate,
00:07:37.72\00:07:41.26
she was doing some
group therapy and the women in
00:07:41.29\00:07:44.86
her group... actually,
it was an eating disorder,
00:07:44.89\00:07:47.83
it wasn't a post-abortive,
but so many of these women
00:07:47.86\00:07:50.83
came up with
having post-abortives,
00:07:50.87\00:07:53.94
and some of them were very
volatile and mean and angry,
00:07:54.00\00:07:57.37
and some of them were
broken-hearted, mournful,
00:07:57.41\00:08:00.54
and just all these
different scenarios.
00:08:00.61\00:08:02.84
But they all had
the same symptoms,
00:08:02.88\00:08:06.85
where it was
surfacing, how it was surfacing
00:08:06.88\00:08:09.22
in the eating
disorder, and the self-hatred
00:08:09.25\00:08:11.62
and the treatment of themselves.
00:08:11.65\00:08:13.79
So she started
the weekend retreats,
00:08:13.82\00:08:17.16
Christian weekend retreats.
00:08:17.19\00:08:18.89
Well she, herself, is Catholic,
so they offer a Catholic weekend
00:08:18.93\00:08:23.87
and they offer a
nondenominational
00:08:23.90\00:08:26.20
Christian Bible-based weekend.
00:08:26.23\00:08:28.64
And did you find out about
her ministry on the internet?
00:08:28.67\00:08:31.31
On the internet, I
was doing research...
00:08:31.34\00:08:33.58
Was Googling... I was!
00:08:33.61\00:08:35.11
Post abortive
healing. Exactly! Exactly!
00:08:35.14\00:08:37.65
And so I called the lady
that had the weekend retreat
00:08:37.68\00:08:42.98
in North Carolina
and I told her... I said,
00:08:43.02\00:08:45.72
"You know, I'm not
Catholic, and she said,
00:08:45.75\00:08:47.66
"Well, I'm not either,
you'll need to go to the
00:08:47.69\00:08:49.79
nondenominational one."
00:08:49.82\00:08:51.39
She was wonderful and
just such a difference from
00:08:51.43\00:08:55.53
the last time I had reached
out because, if you remember,
00:08:55.56\00:08:59.07
the last time I had
actually called somebody
00:08:59.10\00:09:02.20
was that 800 hot-line number,
00:09:02.24\00:09:05.51
and I was just broken then.
00:09:05.54\00:09:08.74
I hadn't even had confessed
my sin of abortion yet.
00:09:08.78\00:09:12.48
And the woman
was... "Well you know
00:09:12.51\00:09:13.95
abortion is murder."
00:09:13.98\00:09:15.45
So "bang, don't you." Right
00:09:15.48\00:09:18.09
So I just hung up the phone,
00:09:18.12\00:09:19.95
and I didn't want
anything to do with it.
00:09:19.99\00:09:23.32
And so, this woman
was very kind; in fact,
00:09:23.36\00:09:27.76
in the weeks before the
retreat, I got a card from her,
00:09:27.83\00:09:32.27
and I got a little
letter encouraging,
00:09:32.30\00:09:34.27
"This is going to make
such an impact on your life."
00:09:34.30\00:09:36.81
Good for her...
It was just amazing!
00:09:36.84\00:09:40.31
But the week
before that retreat,
00:09:40.38\00:09:44.25
I absolutely panicked.
00:09:44.28\00:09:47.88
I had the same anxiety and
fear and literally shaking.
00:09:47.92\00:09:53.29
In fact, one day I
went to my husband's office,
00:09:53.36\00:09:55.89
and I climbed up in his
lap, and I was just that pitiful
00:09:55.92\00:10:00.30
because I was so afraid
of confronting something that
00:10:00.33\00:10:04.90
I had stuffed so deeply.
00:10:04.93\00:10:08.80
And he was
awesome, he was totally
00:10:08.84\00:10:10.81
supportive of me doing that.
00:10:10.87\00:10:12.64
And I went, and I
know now it was the devil.
00:10:12.67\00:10:15.34
The devil did not want me
to experience full redemption.
00:10:15.38\00:10:19.51
Now, was this a
weekend or a week or?
00:10:19.55\00:10:21.72
It was a weekend
- a long weekend.
00:10:21.75\00:10:23.18
And how many other
women, I'm assuming...
00:10:23.22\00:10:25.15
Were there women
and men or just women?
00:10:25.19\00:10:26.82
Well, there was about
4 other women and a man.
00:10:26.86\00:10:34.10
I want to look at my
notes because I don't want to
00:10:34.13\00:10:36.13
miss anything, but I
had friends praying for me,
00:10:36.16\00:10:43.20
Antionette, of
course, was praying for me,
00:10:43.24\00:10:45.04
and then I had 3 other friends,
that the entire weekend,
00:10:45.07\00:10:49.24
they were praying for me.
00:10:49.28\00:10:51.11
And then when I got
there, I realized that this
00:10:51.15\00:10:54.05
"Rachel's Vineyard Retreat,"
they have people praying
00:10:54.08\00:10:57.32
around the clock the
entire weekend just for us
00:10:57.35\00:11:01.46
coming for this as they
see the importance of us
00:11:01.49\00:11:03.93
addressing these issues.
00:11:03.96\00:11:05.59
Was it in a house?
00:11:05.63\00:11:07.23
Well, it was a
really big farm house that
00:11:07.30\00:11:10.53
was made to accommodate weekend
retreats and stuff like that.
00:11:10.57\00:11:14.10
Nice rural setting,
peaceful. It was beautiful!
00:11:14.14\00:11:16.67
It was beautiful.
00:11:16.71\00:11:18.04
So, it was a wonderful
retreat and I can honestly say,
00:11:18.07\00:11:22.91
"I've never been so
ministered to in my life
00:11:22.94\00:11:26.18
as I had been that weekend.
00:11:26.21\00:11:27.78
They were very attentive,
and it was a safe environment.
00:11:27.82\00:11:31.59
where we felt we could share
our stories and confidence.
00:11:31.62\00:11:37.86
In fact, we agreed there,
initially, that the stories
00:11:37.89\00:11:42.06
we heard from
these other people,
00:11:42.10\00:11:44.03
it was all going to be
held in sacred confidence
00:11:44.10\00:11:47.40
because people were bearing
their souls and their stories,
00:11:47.47\00:11:50.54
and heartbreaking stories.
00:11:50.57\00:11:52.54
And because of that, we became
very close and we wept together,
00:11:52.57\00:11:58.55
and we prayed together,
and we confessed together,
00:11:58.58\00:12:03.89
and we shared each other's pain.
00:12:03.92\00:12:06.59
And by sharing each
other's pain, we validated
00:12:06.62\00:12:11.43
what we had been going through.
00:12:11.46\00:12:13.43
And we were given the
opportunity to dedicate
00:12:13.50\00:12:18.80
our babies.
00:12:18.83\00:12:20.20
Now, you know the babies that
I have that are now all grown,
00:12:20.24\00:12:23.57
I dedicated them
when they were babies.
00:12:23.61\00:12:26.98
We went to the church,
in the front, and pastor...
00:12:27.04\00:12:29.78
We did the same thing... Right
00:12:29.81\00:12:31.58
But I never thought of
dedicating my unborn babies,
00:12:31.61\00:12:36.55
but I had never allowed myself
to even acknowledge them...
00:12:36.58\00:12:39.69
You know, much less go to that.
00:12:39.72\00:12:41.72
It's like a closet
that was shut tight,
00:12:41.76\00:12:44.56
and that
weekend opened the door.
00:12:44.59\00:12:47.36
It did and it's
okay, it's safe here.
00:12:47.40\00:12:50.20
You're going to go
where you need to go.
00:12:50.23\00:12:52.50
So it was then that I
really felt the healing
00:12:52.53\00:12:57.44
when we had the
dedication ceremony.
00:12:57.47\00:13:00.58
It was incredible.
00:13:00.61\00:13:02.64
And was it for
both of your babies?
00:13:02.68\00:13:05.08
Yes, it was for both of
the babies that I had aborted,
00:13:05.11\00:13:08.28
and in my little
book, I share that I had
00:13:08.32\00:13:11.72
had 2 miscarriages, so
actually, there were 4 babies
00:13:11.75\00:13:15.52
that I had lost because the
miscarriages were on the hills
00:13:15.56\00:13:19.36
of abortions, and
were they for sure because
00:13:19.39\00:13:24.17
of the
abortion...? I don't know,
00:13:24.23\00:13:26.80
but they very likely could be.
00:13:26.84\00:13:30.17
And so they encourage
us to include those babies,
00:13:30.21\00:13:33.68
which I thought
was very important.
00:13:33.74\00:13:36.71
We need to grieve
for that loss as well.
00:13:36.75\00:13:39.71
So, we had the dedication,
00:13:39.75\00:13:44.85
and it was then
that I felt the healing.
00:13:44.89\00:13:49.16
And I had never thought
of dedicating my babies,
00:13:49.19\00:13:52.29
and it was powerful.
00:13:52.33\00:13:53.66
But the key here
is by doing that,
00:13:53.70\00:13:56.26
I was acknowledging that this
baby was, indeed, a part of me,
00:13:56.30\00:14:00.74
and I was choosing to
trust the Lord with my baby now.
00:14:00.77\00:14:05.61
And ha! It makes an
impact on you, actually it does!
00:14:05.64\00:14:09.51
...And that's
when the grief comes.
00:14:09.54\00:14:12.48
You know, as a group, we
had shed tears of regret,
00:14:12.51\00:14:15.38
and now came those
cleansing tears of remorse
00:14:15.42\00:14:21.32
where we can grieve
the loss of our babies...
00:14:21.36\00:14:26.59
without that condemnation.
00:14:26.63\00:14:29.20
It was a beautiful thing!
00:14:29.23\00:14:31.17
And if you start
crying, I'm going to be a mess.
00:14:31.20\00:14:34.44
I'm sorry...
00:14:34.47\00:14:35.80
So with that, we had this
grief without condemnation.
00:14:35.84\00:14:40.24
We were encouraged to
write letters to these babies.
00:14:40.28\00:14:43.41
Now, I want you to know,
I could have never written
00:14:43.45\00:14:45.75
a letter to this unborn
baby if I hadn't already
00:14:45.78\00:14:49.28
gone through the previous steps.
00:14:49.32\00:14:50.95
It was critical
and it was beautiful.
00:14:50.99\00:14:53.62
So, the denial was gone
and I was talking to my baby.
00:14:53.66\00:15:00.13
And, I named that
first baby "Uriah."
00:15:00.16\00:15:04.63
Uriah, after the brave and
honorable "Uriah the Hittite,"
00:15:04.67\00:15:09.90
in the Bible, and if you want,
I'll read the letter to you...
00:15:09.94\00:15:14.44
Yes... by God's grace.
00:15:15.71\00:15:19.28
Do you have a
letter for each child?
00:15:19.31\00:15:21.05
I have a letter for each child,
00:15:21.08\00:15:23.08
and they're beautiful letters,
00:15:23.12\00:15:25.02
and I treasure. You don't have
time to read them all. Right
00:15:25.09\00:15:26.69
Just one... So, I'll share this.
00:15:26.76\00:15:28.09
Uriah would have
been my firstborn.
00:15:28.12\00:15:31.39
"My Dear Uriah,
You would have been our
00:15:31.43\00:15:36.43
firstborn, Uriah, an
honored and blessed position.
00:15:36.46\00:15:40.80
You bear with me...
00:15:40.84\00:15:44.31
But your dad and I
prevented that from happening.
00:15:44.34\00:15:47.64
We didn't trust God's Son.
00:15:47.68\00:15:49.81
We leaned on our own
understanding of things.
00:15:49.84\00:15:53.15
We trusted man's wisdom
over the wisdom from above.
00:15:53.18\00:15:57.69
The doctor's told us we should
abort... every one of them.
00:15:57.72\00:16:01.36
I'd like to think that
was the only reason I did it,
00:16:01.39\00:16:04.26
and thus blame them, I can't.
00:16:04.29\00:16:07.50
I was afraid, son...
Even though I was engaged
00:16:07.56\00:16:11.00
to your dad, I
felt shame and fear.
00:16:11.03\00:16:14.44
I think that if I had had a
spiritual mentor at the time,
00:16:14.47\00:16:17.74
I might have
reconsidered, maybe...
00:16:17.77\00:16:20.98
I didn't have a church
family to be embarrassed around.
00:16:21.01\00:16:24.15
I was afraid of
what the radiation
00:16:24.18\00:16:26.48
might have done to
you, but I can't blame it
00:16:26.51\00:16:28.92
on just that.
00:16:28.95\00:16:30.99
I named you "Uriah"
because he was a righteous man,
00:16:31.02\00:16:34.56
and his life was taken away.
00:16:34.59\00:16:37.53
He was in the way.
00:16:37.56\00:16:39.76
Through him, David's
shame would have been revealed,
00:16:39.79\00:16:43.37
so he had him killed.
00:16:43.43\00:16:45.60
If I had not had the abortion,
I would have been shamed.
00:16:45.63\00:16:50.17
Shamed! So son,
I had you aborted.
00:16:50.21\00:16:53.44
I had your precious
little body destroyed,
00:16:53.48\00:16:59.28
and removed from
the safety of my womb.
00:16:59.31\00:17:03.62
Now I know what real shame is.
00:17:03.65\00:17:06.99
You would have been
31 years old by now, son.
00:17:07.02\00:17:12.76
You would have been
big, beautiful and strong.
00:17:12.79\00:17:18.07
But I took it
away. I am sorry son.
00:17:18.10\00:17:22.64
I am so sorry.
00:17:22.67\00:17:25.37
I look forward to the
day when we are reunited.
00:17:25.41\00:17:28.71
I want to hold you close
to my heart and thank Jesus
00:17:28.74\00:17:32.18
for forgiving me and
giving you back to me.
00:17:32.21\00:17:35.42
I love you Uriah, Mommy
00:17:35.45\00:17:39.42
Well, as you can
imagine, there was a
00:17:39.45\00:17:43.16
lot of tears shed that day.
00:17:43.19\00:17:45.09
I had 4 letters to read.
00:17:45.13\00:17:47.30
Another lady had 4 letters.
00:17:48.30\00:17:49.63
The gentleman
there had 2 letters.
00:17:49.66\00:17:52.73
And, each one of us,
had a way of memorializing.
00:17:52.77\00:17:59.61
Some had maybe a
poem they had written,
00:17:59.64\00:18:03.08
just different ways that
they wanted to always remember
00:18:03.11\00:18:06.51
this child that
they had not had.
00:18:06.55\00:18:09.38
And so I came up with this
and I'd like to show it to you.
00:18:09.42\00:18:15.19
Was this part of
Rachel's direction? It was...
00:18:15.22\00:18:19.16
This is what they
directed you to do...
00:18:19.19\00:18:20.73
Well they encouraged us
that if there was something we
00:18:20.76\00:18:23.06
wanted to do, and at the time,
00:18:23.10\00:18:25.30
to be honest, I didn't
know what to expect when I went.
00:18:25.33\00:18:31.17
In fact, I called her
the week before and said,
00:18:31.21\00:18:35.78
"I just need to know
there's nothing weird
00:18:35.81\00:18:37.55
going to be going on."
00:18:37.58\00:18:38.91
You know, I was like
venturing out on territory,
00:18:38.95\00:18:42.38
but I wanted the Lord's
redemptive power in my life
00:18:42.42\00:18:46.35
so bad and I wanted
healing, and I didn't understand
00:18:46.39\00:18:49.92
the significance of
acknowledging these babies,
00:18:49.96\00:18:53.60
and giving myself
permission to grieve...
00:18:53.63\00:18:56.87
"You know, it's
okay to grieve, Dianne,
00:18:56.93\00:18:58.93
the Lord has forgiven
you, now forgive yourself."
00:18:58.97\00:19:02.64
And that is the hardest
part... to forgive yourself.
00:19:02.67\00:19:07.81
So I thought about
what kind of memorial,
00:19:07.84\00:19:13.58
and I remember going
to the store and thinking,
00:19:13.65\00:19:16.95
"Okay, maybe a
little baby doll,"
00:19:17.02\00:19:19.65
and then... OH,
there was no baby doll."
00:19:19.69\00:19:22.16
I went to the office
to David and I cried...
00:19:22.19\00:19:25.29
"I don't know what to
do, I don't know what to do,
00:19:25.33\00:19:27.13
I can't find anything."
00:19:27.13\00:19:28.60
He said, "Well, let's just look
at something on the internet."
00:19:28.63\00:19:31.73
So he's the one
who really helped me
00:19:31.77\00:19:33.64
steer in this direction.
00:19:33.67\00:19:35.27
And we found these
adorable little babies,
00:19:35.30\00:19:37.74
and I'd like to
show this to you.
00:19:37.77\00:19:39.77
I have one for each one.
00:19:39.81\00:19:41.38
Here is
Uriah's... it's a little box
00:19:41.41\00:19:43.98
with the baby feet
and when you open it,
00:19:44.05\00:19:47.75
there's just a little baby.
00:19:47.78\00:19:50.29
And this is not like something
I'd keep out for everyone to see
00:19:50.32\00:19:54.06
I keep it tucked
away in my pajama drawer.
00:19:55.09\00:19:59.19
But it is my
little memorial for Uriah,
00:19:59.23\00:20:05.30
and it has
helped in the healing.
00:20:05.33\00:20:08.60
We don't allow
ourselves to heal,
00:20:08.64\00:20:12.57
and that's very sad
and that's why I encourage
00:20:12.61\00:20:15.81
everyone to plug into
some kind of post-abortive.
00:20:15.84\00:20:22.08
It has made a
new woman out of me.
00:20:22.12\00:20:25.02
And it will be 2
years in March that I went.
00:20:25.05\00:20:29.06
And all the ladies at
that retreat know I'm here
00:20:29.09\00:20:32.26
and they're all praying for me.
00:20:32.29\00:20:33.66
So you're keeping in
touch with them... Absolutely!
00:20:33.70\00:20:35.36
In fact, we're given
the opportunity to exchange
00:20:35.40\00:20:38.87
contact information,
but only if we wanted to
00:20:38.90\00:20:43.34
because of the
confidential... Of course
00:20:43.37\00:20:45.47
And, I actually heard
from one of the ladies
00:20:45.51\00:20:48.81
not too many weeks ago and
her husband was going to go
00:20:48.84\00:20:52.38
to the retreat and I
was thrilled about that.
00:20:52.41\00:20:57.79
In fact, David... we
were just talking about this
00:20:57.82\00:21:01.89
maybe the last few months
that he wants to go to one.
00:21:01.92\00:21:06.26
Really? He
said, "But only if you
00:21:06.29\00:21:07.73
go with me. Wow...
00:21:07.76\00:21:09.30
It really helped you.
00:21:09.33\00:21:11.57
It's huge. I
want to read this text
00:21:11.60\00:21:15.07
that just really
means so much to me.
00:21:15.10\00:21:17.57
It's not a text, it's a quote.
00:21:17.61\00:21:20.14
Usually when I
give a presentation,
00:21:20.18\00:21:21.78
I read the whole
thing, but I won't read the
00:21:21.81\00:21:23.41
whole thing here, but
the reason I'm reading this
00:21:23.45\00:21:26.88
is because the men and
women who are out there
00:21:26.92\00:21:29.32
hearing this -
watching this need to hear this.
00:21:29.35\00:21:33.72
"Satan stands at our
right hand to accuse us,
00:21:33.76\00:21:38.13
and our Advocate stands at God's
right hand to plead for us.
00:21:38.16\00:21:43.30
We have reason to have hope.
00:21:43.33\00:21:46.37
He has never lost a case
that has been committed to Him."
00:21:46.40\00:21:50.74
When I read that, that
was like opening a window.
00:21:50.77\00:21:54.34
"He has never lost a case
that has been committed to Him."
00:21:54.38\00:21:57.28
Praise God! I
committed my case to Him
00:21:57.31\00:21:59.81
and I know it was through Jesus
that I found Rachel's Vineyard
00:21:59.85\00:22:04.42
because even though the
Lord had forgiven me of my sin
00:22:04.45\00:22:09.52
years ago... the sin of abortion
00:22:09.56\00:22:11.53
that I had taken the
life of my innocent child,
00:22:11.56\00:22:14.30
He had forgiven
me the consequences.
00:22:14.30\00:22:18.77
The sad thing about it is...
the consequences I suffered
00:22:18.80\00:22:23.67
for 30 years which is pitiful,
00:22:23.71\00:22:26.64
and that's why I'm here
today because "yes, I have
00:22:26.68\00:22:28.98
experienced the
redemptive power of Jesus Christ
00:22:29.01\00:22:31.35
in my life and I don't want
other men and women to suffer.
00:22:31.38\00:22:36.12
Yeah, you know I've thought
so much about this and I have
00:22:36.15\00:22:38.32
thought about the
whole freedom issue,
00:22:38.35\00:22:39.69
and I thought of... what
if a man was on the edge of a
00:22:39.72\00:22:41.79
cliff talking to somebody else
and the man was about to jump...
00:22:41.82\00:22:46.19
What would I say to that person?
00:22:46.23\00:22:47.56
Would I say, "You know, I
totally respect your freedom
00:22:47.60\00:22:50.50
to jump if you choose to." No
00:22:50.53\00:22:53.80
Now he has freedom. Right
00:22:53.87\00:22:55.74
But I would give him
every reason NOT to jump
00:22:55.77\00:23:00.11
to save him and
really, that's what
00:23:00.18\00:23:02.38
I see as part of the
mission of the church.
00:23:02.41\00:23:05.48
... Is that the church needs
to, yes, we respect freedom,
00:23:05.51\00:23:07.65
but we need to help
people to understand
00:23:07.68\00:23:09.85
this is a sin issue.
00:23:09.88\00:23:11.85
It's a right and wrong issue,
and we want to help people
00:23:11.89\00:23:15.52
so they don't have to go
through 30 years like you
00:23:15.56\00:23:19.06
have suffered, but Praise
God you found healing. Amen!
00:23:19.09\00:23:22.80
And the silence, that's why
we need to break the silence,
00:23:22.83\00:23:27.24
and do something.
00:23:27.30\00:23:29.54
I got it... You
mentioned the men too.
00:23:29.57\00:23:31.91
As I've been
thinking about this,
00:23:31.94\00:23:33.74
there was something that
really hit me the other day
00:23:33.78\00:23:35.58
that if I knew that
a woman that I was with
00:23:35.61\00:23:39.48
became pregnant and through
our consultation or whatever
00:23:39.51\00:23:45.12
she chose to have an
abortion, and I finally realized
00:23:45.15\00:23:47.99
what I had done later on,
this is something that would
00:23:48.02\00:23:50.19
really minister to me.
00:23:50.23\00:23:51.99
I've been just
thinking about this about Jesus.
00:23:52.03\00:23:54.03
It says in John 1:10
that "He was in the world
00:23:54.10\00:23:57.03
and the world was
made through Him."
00:23:57.10\00:23:58.80
That Jesus is the Maker
of everything, you know,
00:23:58.83\00:24:02.40
and there's another verse
in Acts 3:15 that says that,
00:24:02.44\00:24:05.44
"He is the Prince of life."
00:24:05.47\00:24:06.91
And I've just
thought about that.
00:24:06.98\00:24:08.31
I thought if it was
my baby that was aborted,
00:24:08.34\00:24:12.25
for me to realize that not
only is Jesus the Prince of Life
00:24:12.28\00:24:16.52
who made that child that
was supposed to grow full-term,
00:24:16.55\00:24:21.59
and I contributed to the
death of my own son or daughter,
00:24:21.62\00:24:27.03
the same Jesus who
made that child, made me,
00:24:27.10\00:24:31.97
and that He came
down into Mary's womb
00:24:32.00\00:24:35.54
and He came
full-term, and then He grew up
00:24:35.57\00:24:38.64
and He lived for me and suffered
00:24:38.67\00:24:40.64
and He died at the end
of His life and He rose.
00:24:40.68\00:24:43.31
And I guess my point
is that He made my baby,
00:24:43.35\00:24:49.38
but He also made me
and He loves the baby,
00:24:49.42\00:24:52.55
and He loves me so
much that He became a baby
00:24:52.59\00:24:55.52
and He grew up and He
did all that to let me know
00:24:55.56\00:24:58.99
that He loves me too.
00:24:59.03\00:25:02.23
That thought just hit
me one day and I thought,
00:25:02.26\00:25:03.87
"You know, that would really
help the healing process for me"
00:25:03.90\00:25:07.67
and I know God uses
different insights and ways,
00:25:07.70\00:25:11.31
and I'm so thankful that He has
used that retreat to help you.
00:25:11.34\00:25:13.88
It was huge, it was huge.
00:25:14.58\00:25:17.88
I don't know how
much more time we have,
00:25:17.91\00:25:20.45
so I don't want to
start. Got about 2 minutes...
00:25:20.52\00:25:22.28
But the intrinsic
value, besides this retreat,
00:25:22.32\00:25:25.35
what you were just saying,
what Jesus has done for us...
00:25:25.39\00:25:28.56
when we see that, we
can see how valuable we are.
00:25:28.59\00:25:33.53
I think we'd say,
"What would Jesus do?"
00:25:33.60\00:25:34.93
I've asked myself,
"Would Jesus abort a baby?"
00:25:34.93\00:25:37.33
And my answer would
be, "Not if there was any
00:25:37.37\00:25:42.47
other way." The
answer would be "No."
00:25:42.50\00:25:46.01
We talked about
women in certain situations
00:25:46.04\00:25:48.08
where the
mother's life is at stake,
00:25:48.11\00:25:49.64
but His answer would be "No."
00:25:49.68\00:25:51.68
If there's any other way because
He's the author of that life.
00:25:51.71\00:25:55.45
That's right... And
He's the author of your life.
00:25:55.48\00:25:57.79
And, Dianne, your testimony
is helping a lot of people.
00:25:57.82\00:26:02.22
Well thank you for
letting me share it. Thank you
00:26:02.26\00:26:04.86
You're very welcome,
and I'm assuming people
00:26:04.89\00:26:06.73
can contact you in
the future. Absolutely
00:26:06.76\00:26:09.36
If they are struggling,
they can find Rachel's Vineyard,
00:26:09.40\00:26:11.50
and they can find
"Mafgia Ministry,"
00:26:11.53\00:26:14.30
and they can get the
information that they need
00:26:14.34\00:26:16.54
to help with
the healing process.
00:26:16.57\00:26:18.94
Well as we wind this up,
I'm glad I'm not bawling,
00:26:18.97\00:26:23.95
I could be - I cry quite a
bit when I think of my kids.
00:26:23.98\00:26:27.85
I was a little
worried myself about me.
00:26:27.88\00:26:29.22
I want to finish this
up with a verse in the
00:26:29.25\00:26:31.92
book of Revelation.
00:26:31.95\00:26:33.79
I've shared this many times
as a pastor and as a speaker,
00:26:33.86\00:26:38.56
and as a writer,
Revelation 21:4-5 says that
00:26:38.59\00:26:43.87
"One of these days God will wipe
away all tears from their eyes,
00:26:43.93\00:26:48.37
and there will be no
more death, neither sorrow,
00:26:48.40\00:26:51.61
nor crying; neither
shall there be anymore pain
00:26:51.64\00:26:54.31
for the former
things will all pass away,
00:26:54.34\00:26:56.48
and He that sat upon the throne
00:26:56.51\00:26:58.95
said, "Behold I make all
things new," and He said to me,
00:26:58.98\00:27:04.35
"Write, for these words are
true and they are faithful."
00:27:04.39\00:27:11.13
The Bible is the
truth. God is the truth!
00:27:11.16\00:27:13.86
Life is from Him and
whatever you've done...
00:27:13.93\00:27:17.40
if you're a man who has
contributed to an abortion;
00:27:17.47\00:27:20.44
if you're a woman
who has had an abortion,
00:27:20.47\00:27:21.80
you've heard Dianne's story,
you've heard the Word of God...
00:27:21.84\00:27:24.24
Jesus says, "Those who come
to Me, I will never cast out."
00:27:24.31\00:27:27.48
And some day, all tears
will be gone and we invite you
00:27:27.51\00:27:30.95
to get to know
that God right now.
00:27:30.98\00:27:34.65
Dianne Wagner shares
her life-changing story
00:27:34.68\00:27:38.02
in today's free offer:
"Redeemed, A Gateway of Hope"
00:27:38.05\00:27:42.06
If you have been
blessed by these programs,
00:27:42.09\00:27:44.23
and would like a powerful
sharing book to give to women
00:27:44.26\00:27:46.56
who need to hear this
message of hope, call:
00:27:46.59\00:27:48.86
1-800-782-4253
00:27:48.90\00:27:55.57
or you can write
to the following:
00:27:55.60\00:27:56.97
or order online at
www.whitehorsemedia.com
00:28:01.84\00:28:06.08
If you have been
blessed by today's program,
00:28:06.28\00:28:08.98
and would like to
help White Horse Media
00:28:09.02\00:28:10.75
with your financial support,
you can call our toll-free
00:28:10.82\00:28:13.72
number listed on the
screen or donate online
00:28:13.79\00:28:16.02
at whitehorsemedia.com
00:28:16.06\00:28:18.06
We solicit your
prayers for our ministry,
00:28:18.09\00:28:20.83
and we thank you for
any gift large or small
00:28:20.86\00:28:24.27
to help us reach
people with the gospel.
00:28:24.30\00:28:29.27