Abortion, the Ten
Commandments, Sin, Love, Grace!
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We're going to try to
figure all this out next on
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"The Abortion Controversy"
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Welcome back to "The
Abortion Controversy"
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My guests, once
again, are Dianne Wagner,
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and Antionette Duck,
they are together coworkers
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of a ministry called,
"Mafgia" that is designed
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and passionately
motivated to shed light into the
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midst of the
difficult abortion nightmare.
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This is part 10 which
is somewhat significant
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because the title of
this program is called
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"The Ten Commandment Connection"
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We are going to inject
into this whole issue the
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importance of the Law of God.
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Ladies, again,
thank you as always.
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It's been great
getting to know you.
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We've had a lot of
discussions prior to our
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time together and
this is just wonderful.
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So we're going to take a
look at the Ten Commandments.
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And Antionette, I think
you have a verse that you were
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going to read just
to get the ball rolling.
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Yes, 1 John 3:4, "Everyone
who sins breaks the law."
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"Everyone who
sins breaks the law."
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And we've been talking
about just the whole issue of
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abortion and is
this really a sin,
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does it have
anything to do with God's law?
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That verse says that whoever
commits a sin breaks the law.
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This is one of the
two big tables of stone
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that I carry around with me
sometimes when I hold seminars.
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This is the
second table of the law,
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and we don't really
have time to go into all of
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the commandments,
but the significant ones
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for our discussion is #6 which
God wrote with His own finger.
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"You shall not
kill," and then #7
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which He wrote
with His own finger,
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"You shall not commit adultery."
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Now I have here a book
that we're all familiar with.
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Not everybody is familiar
with, it's a book called,
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"Patriarchs and
Prophets," and on page 308,
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the author zeros
in on commandment #6,
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and commandment #7.
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Which really is what
Jesus did in His ministry,
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in Matthew 5, He took a close
look at the 7th commandment,
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a close look at
the 6th commandment,
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and showed their depth.
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So here is commandment
#6. "You shall not kill."
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"All acts of injustice
that tend to shorten life.
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The spirit of hatred and
revenge or the indulgence
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of any passion that leads
to injurious acts toward others
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or even causes us
to wish them harm,
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for whoever hates his
brother is a murderer,"
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quoting the New Testament.
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"A selfish neglect of caring
for the needy or suffering,
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all self-indulgence or
unnecessary deprivation,
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or excessive labor - that's
working too hard, too much,
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that tends to injure health.
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All of these are to a greater
or less degree violations
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of the 6th commandment."
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So wow - that's a
lot of deep applications,
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and then for commandment #7,
"You shall not commit adultery."
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This commandment forbids
not only acts of impurity,
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but sensual
thoughts and desires,
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or any practice that
tends to excite them."
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"Purity is demanded, not
only in the outward life,
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but in the secret intents
and emotions of the heart."
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Again, wow.
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"Christ, who taught
the far-reaching obligation
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of the Law of God
declared that the evil thought
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or look was as truly
sin as the unlawful deed."
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So I've read this many times
and it has really convicted me
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because as I look back at my
life, I think we all can look
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at our lives, and we can
see violations of #6 and #7,
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and many of these Commandments
and, for me and then we'll turn
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to you and have
you share your stories.
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For me, as I look back
at my teenage B.C. days,
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Before Christ, my promiscuous
days that I'm thoroughly
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ashamed of before
I became a Christian,
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I was breaking the 7th
commandment on all sides.
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I was living
just an immoral life.
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I was involved
with women, you know,
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it just was not a good scene.
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And, it seems to me that
in the majority of cases,
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there is the sexual immorality
first and that can result
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in an unwanted pregnancy
which can lead to the temptation
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to breaking the 6th commandment
which has to do with killing.
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And I also have a
definition here that I just read
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today from Miriam-Webster's
online Dictionary
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for the word "kill."
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It says, "To cause
the death of a person,"
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and there are other
parts to that definition,
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but that's the main
part that spoke to me.
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So, breaking the 7th commandment
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leading to breaking
the 6th commandment,
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and as we discussed, one of
the big issues in this whole
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controversy is... Is
abortion really a violation
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of the 6th commandment or not?
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And based on these definitions,
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all acts that tend
to shortening life,
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it fits what's
happening in the world,
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especially when we
think of 45 million babies
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being aborted every
year around the world.
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So, tell us your
stories and tie this in,
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and give us some new insights.
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As I've shared in
an earlier segment,
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I, myself, was rescued
from abortion which was
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absolutely phenomenal
because people who believed
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in the value and sanctity
of life believed in my value,
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they believed in my
mother's value, they interceded,
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and through their
intercession, I was rescued,
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and my mother was rescued,
not just from having the
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abortion, but in
the preservation of her
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spiritual soundness,
which was absolutely remarkable.
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Our home, though, was one
that was very frightening.
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It could be quite scary.
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My father could be very violent.
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And, as I grew up, I
grew angry, I grew bitter,
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I grew resentful and I
began to just blame the Lord,
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I really
believed that He owed me.
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There was a lot of ingratitude
that took root in my heart,
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and that's the lens
that I began to see through,
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and the lens that I
began to choose through.
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As I got older, got into
college and began to experiment
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sexually, I really
ran away from the Lord,
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and certainly
away from His plan,
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and away from the parameters,
the hedge of protection
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that He has established for us.
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Did you grow up
having a knowledge of the
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Ten Commandments, were you aware
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as you were growing up?
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I certainly wasn't, I
didn't really say this,
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but I want to add to what I
said - that Romans 13:10 says
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that "love is the
fulfilling of the Law,"
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and that God's Law
really is a law of love
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that's designed to protect us.
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Like you said,
"those parameters,"
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God wants what's best
for us, so I was just curious
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if you grew up with a
knowledge of those parameters
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because I definitely did not.
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Yes, I did... I did grow up with
a knowledge of those parameters.
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And, I wouldn't say
that my woundedness or my
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deep need, I really went
looking for the love that
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I had not received from
that fatherly relationship.
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And it's not an excuse,
but I do think it's something
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that we need to understand,
that there are driving
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motivating factors that
push us looking for love,
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significance, value, purpose.
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Thankfully though,
the Lord did remember me,
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and brought me back to Himself,
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but it was in surrendering
again to His standard,
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and realizing that
He has given me that
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hedge of protection
because He created me.
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He knows me very well.
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And the law, as
you said, it's not to
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cause me pain in some way,
it is a protection out of love.
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Right, it's not designed to
cripple us, but to set us free.
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Yes... And God
wants what's best for us.
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And really, if
you think about it...
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If the whole world was sexually
pure and nobody was killing
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anybody, if everybody
was honoring their father
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and mother and not
lying, and etcetera, etcetera,
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it really would be a good world.
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It would be... you
know I've asked myself,
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"Why did I do it?"
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You know, here I had a great
guy, my college sweetheart,
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and we wanted this Christian
home, like I've told you,
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and why did I decide
to have sex with this man
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before we were married?
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And you know, I had been
brought up with the principles.
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My mother had taught me
and my sisters the importance
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of being pure and how
special it is to give that gift
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to the man we marry some day.
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I had all those and I
look at the principles,
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these commandments as
principles to protect us.
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Like we said, a
hedge of protection,
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a beautiful hedge of protection.
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And so when I ask
myself, why did I do it,
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and I have to say, it's because
I took my eyes off the Lord.
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And when I did, I stepped
outside that hedge of protection
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Of course the Lord's
protection is all-encompassing,
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I don't want to
belittle His capability.
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His grace is always with
us, even when we mess up.
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But it is a wall of protection
from the cruelty of the world.
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Many times we
suffer consequences because
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of those decisions, and I
do believe that by breaking
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the 7th commandment,
it put me in a position to
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tumble and roll and
confusion and then, of course,
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the pregnancy which
was causing all of that,
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I just fell right into the arms
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of breaking the 6th commandment;
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you know, I
killed an unborn child.
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I really believe that
by compromising in one,
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we set ourselves up
to compromise in another.
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And it was never my intention,
I never dreamed I would
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be doing that, but
that's what happened.
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That's the reality of
not keeping our eyes on
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the Author of this Law.
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Right and for me, again,
I didn't have that picture,
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so I wasn't keeping
my eye on the Author
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though I didn't know
anything about the Law,
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and it was part of the Lord's
redemptive work in my life
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to eventually zero me in
and show me commandment #7,
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#6, #5, each one of them.
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I remember sitting in a
room in San Francisco when I was
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pastoring - I was a young
pastor, just gotten out of
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seminary - I was going
through a lot of struggles,
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and I remember meditating
on the Ten Commandments...
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And it was just like
when I was a little kid,
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I used to play pinball games,
you know, you hit the little
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and the ball goes
bing and it lights up...
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And I saw the Ten Commandments
in front of my eyes.
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It wasn't an actual
vision, a mental picture,
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and I saw them one by
one, and the Holy Spirit
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showed them to me deeply
and it was like the pinball,
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like commandment #1 lit
up, commandment #5 lit up,
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#10 lit up, #7 lit up...
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And, as I saw that more
clearly, it clarified to me
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the sin that was in my
life and had been in my life,
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and that prepared
me to understand more
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and to appreciate
more the grace of Jesus,
00:12:20.34\00:12:24.11
and His love in coming
down here, taking my sin,
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paying the price, rising
from the dead and offering me
00:12:27.28\00:12:30.11
full forgiveness.
00:12:30.15\00:12:31.51
So as I see it, God
used the Law showing my sin
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to show me my need for a Savior,
00:12:34.58\00:12:36.79
and it was all part of
bringing peace to my soul,
00:12:36.85\00:12:39.45
and it has been wonderful. Yes!
00:12:39.49\00:12:42.36
Even painful, but wonderful.
00:12:42.39\00:12:44.46
Now, we've talked about abortion
in my different dimensions.
00:12:44.49\00:12:51.23
And this is, as you
know, a complex subject.
00:12:51.27\00:12:55.00
And as we look at
the 6th commandment,
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"You shall not kill," and if
you looked at the definition,
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in the dictionary and in
"Patriarchs and Prophets"
00:13:00.71\00:13:03.38
that it's an act that
tends to shorten life,
00:13:03.45\00:13:06.05
our conscience is telling us
that that's what abortion is.
00:13:06.08\00:13:09.18
But there are certain
circumstances, right, that are
00:13:09.22\00:13:13.36
more difficult to deal with,
and you've mentioned that you
00:13:13.39\00:13:17.66
really want to zero in on
those difficult circumstances
00:13:17.69\00:13:22.60
and I think... incest, was that
one of them? Rape and incest.
00:13:22.63\00:13:26.53
And then the life of
a mother, so let's go.
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Where do you want
to start with incest?
00:13:30.71\00:13:33.21
Well, if we could talk about
rape and incest in conjunction..
00:13:33.24\00:13:37.75
When we're dealing
with the topic of abortion,
00:13:37.78\00:13:41.38
I think the most
difficult concern to talk about
00:13:41.42\00:13:46.96
is the idea of a
woman who has been raped or
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someone who suffered
from an incestual relationship
00:13:50.49\00:13:53.40
and what happens if
she becomes pregnant.
00:13:53.46\00:13:58.37
Steve Wagner with
an organization called,
00:13:58.40\00:14:00.34
"Justice for All," I've had
the opportunity to listen to him
00:14:00.37\00:14:02.54
dialog on this and
I really appreciated
00:14:02.57\00:14:05.34
his perspective on it
in doing work with him.
00:14:05.37\00:14:08.61
If we think about a
rape situation or an
00:14:08.64\00:14:12.81
incest situation, you've had
a horrible horrific injustice
00:14:12.85\00:14:18.65
that's been done to that
woman or to that young girl.
00:14:18.69\00:14:23.43
There is nothing
that is just about it.
00:14:23.46\00:14:26.26
It's an absolute wrong.
00:14:26.29\00:14:27.66
It's a horrible
atrocity and it's a violation,
00:14:27.73\00:14:31.17
a literal plundering of
her soul that she is going to
00:14:31.20\00:14:34.27
carry with her through
the remainder of her life.
00:14:34.30\00:14:37.11
Now we pray that she
finds healing and freedom
00:14:37.17\00:14:40.88
from that, but it
will still be a part of her
00:14:40.94\00:14:44.61
for the rest of her life.
00:14:44.65\00:14:45.98
It's a complete injustice;
she didn't ask for it;
00:14:46.01\00:14:49.38
she didn't do
anything to deserve it.
00:14:49.42\00:14:51.52
It's something that never
should have happened period.
00:14:51.55\00:14:55.72
And that's something
that we need to be firm on,
00:14:55.76\00:15:00.53
that we need to accept.
00:15:00.56\00:15:03.13
It was an injustice and it
never should have happened.
00:15:03.16\00:15:06.97
And, as we think about
the issue, if she then becomes
00:15:07.04\00:15:10.21
pregnant, she now has
to deal with a pregnancy
00:15:10.24\00:15:15.01
that has been forced
upon her by a rapist.
00:15:15.04\00:15:19.58
She didn't ask to be
pregnant and as she's
00:15:19.61\00:15:22.55
thinking about
"What am I going to do,
00:15:22.58\00:15:24.29
how am I going
to handle myself?"
00:15:24.32\00:15:25.82
you think about burden
after burden, after burden
00:15:25.85\00:15:29.36
that the rapist has
now heaped upon this woman.
00:15:29.39\00:15:32.39
Not just the injustice,
not just the violation done
00:15:32.43\00:15:35.33
to her person, but
also on top of that,
00:15:35.36\00:15:38.50
burden, after
burden, after burden.
00:15:38.53\00:15:40.74
Is she a
student, is she in school?
00:15:40.80\00:15:43.14
Is she going to stay in school?
00:15:43.17\00:15:44.74
Does she have a boyfriend?
00:15:44.77\00:15:46.21
Is she married?
00:15:46.24\00:15:47.58
What about the social stigma?
00:15:47.61\00:15:48.98
How is she going
to tell her parents?
00:15:49.01\00:15:50.91
Who is going to pay for
her life because she now has to
00:15:50.95\00:15:53.68
get prenatal care.
00:15:53.72\00:15:55.22
You have burden, after burden,
after burden that has been
00:15:55.25\00:15:58.82
thrust upon this woman,
and the rapist is responsible
00:15:58.85\00:16:02.69
for each and
every single one. Wow
00:16:02.72\00:16:05.59
If she wants to do the
right thing and bring this child
00:16:05.63\00:16:08.60
to term, she then is
forced to carry a baby
00:16:08.63\00:16:11.53
for 9 months of pregnancy and
she never asked to be pregnant,
00:16:11.57\00:16:15.04
and she is carrying a child
00:16:15.07\00:16:16.54
that she never asked
for... So what should she do?
00:16:16.57\00:16:19.94
You said to do what's
right, to bring the child
00:16:19.97\00:16:22.61
to term... that's part
of the issue, isn't it?
00:16:22.64\00:16:25.58
Then what do you do? Now what?
00:16:25.61\00:16:27.02
Well I think
it's about refocusing
00:16:27.05\00:16:29.38
because the question
we have to ask ourselves,
00:16:29.42\00:16:31.39
when we consider burden,
after burden, after burden,
00:16:31.42\00:16:33.86
that has now been placed
on this woman by this man
00:16:33.89\00:16:36.93
who has committed
this horrible crime,
00:16:36.96\00:16:39.33
should the child have to
pay for the sins of his father?
00:16:39.36\00:16:43.83
That's not an easy
question, but it's a question
00:16:43.87\00:16:47.04
that we have to be honest about;
00:16:47.10\00:16:49.10
we have to ask
ourselves, honestly.
00:16:49.14\00:16:51.34
We've spoken about the value
of the unborn in Scripture.
00:16:51.37\00:16:55.34
We've spoken about the value
of the unborn through science.
00:16:55.38\00:16:58.41
We've spoken about it,
segment, after segment,
00:16:58.45\00:17:01.12
after segment, and
this is not an easy issue.
00:17:01.15\00:17:05.15
There is no way to make it just.
00:17:05.19\00:17:07.09
There's no way to make it right.
00:17:07.12\00:17:08.96
It's simply difficult, but
we have to be willing to be
00:17:08.99\00:17:12.63
honest with ourselves
about the value of that child.
00:17:12.66\00:17:17.47
Do circumstances of
conception determine value?
00:17:17.50\00:17:20.97
Great point... so
it's not the circumstances.
00:17:21.00\00:17:23.61
The child has intrinsic
value, therefore, regardless
00:17:23.64\00:17:26.57
of the fact that in
spite of everything of what the
00:17:26.61\00:17:29.88
rapist has done, that
baby is not responsible
00:17:29.91\00:17:34.42
for what the rapist has did.
00:17:34.45\00:17:35.78
That baby has intrinsic
value and... That's right.
00:17:35.82\00:17:39.09
That life needs to be
respected and if the woman...
00:17:39.12\00:17:42.49
I'm assuming if the
woman is not ready to
00:17:42.52\00:17:45.46
be a mom, then at least
adoption would be another
00:17:45.49\00:17:48.23
option, rather than having
two victims instead of just one.
00:17:48.26\00:17:51.83
Most certainly, and many do
choose to adopt that baby out.
00:17:51.87\00:17:54.87
They realize they are not
in a position to keep a child.
00:17:54.90\00:17:58.67
But I did some research
into this because it is a very
00:17:58.71\00:18:03.28
sensitive, hard
situation and so many times,
00:18:03.31\00:18:06.45
those of us who do value the
life and discourage abortion,
00:18:06.48\00:18:11.35
you know, it's not an option
that's going to be good for you.
00:18:11.39\00:18:15.89
They look at us as
being heartless, but really,
00:18:15.92\00:18:18.69
if you think about
it... You mean when you say
00:18:18.73\00:18:20.83
"don't abort the baby..."
Don't abort, then you're being
00:18:20.86\00:18:22.70
heartless, you don't
care about this woman.
00:18:22.73\00:18:24.73
Yes, indeed, and
that's why Antionette wanted
00:18:24.77\00:18:27.54
to establish that right off.
00:18:27.57\00:18:29.14
We recognize that this is a
criminal act against this woman.
00:18:29.17\00:18:34.28
Absolutely!
00:18:34.31\00:18:35.64
But you know, Steve,
the research that I've done,
00:18:35.68\00:18:39.35
gave me some more
light on this issue.
00:18:39.38\00:18:42.58
Most of the data that the
people who encourage abortion
00:18:42.62\00:18:47.82
are going by... they have
asked women who were victims
00:18:47.86\00:18:51.33
of rape, but have not become
pregnant because of the rape,
00:18:51.36\00:18:57.03
but just rape
victims... the majority of rape
00:18:57.07\00:18:59.87
victims say, "If I
were pregnant, I would want
00:18:59.90\00:19:03.44
to abort, but very
little has been asked of
00:19:03.47\00:19:07.41
the actual rape victim
who has become pregnant...
00:19:07.44\00:19:11.25
In fact, from what I've
read, these women feel like
00:19:11.28\00:19:15.72
they have been silenced
because 75 to 85 percent,
00:19:15.75\00:19:20.39
according to one study of
women who have been raped,
00:19:20.42\00:19:24.06
and then conceive
because of that rape,
00:19:24.09\00:19:27.46
choose to keep that child,
and many of them keep them,
00:19:27.50\00:19:32.33
many of them adopted out.
00:19:32.37\00:19:34.37
But, one of the
reasons for keeping that child
00:19:34.40\00:19:38.67
is... they were a victim
of a crime, they don't want to
00:19:38.71\00:19:44.78
turn around and
victimize someone else. Right
00:19:44.81\00:19:48.58
And it's very difficult...
when I read the stories,
00:19:48.62\00:19:52.55
it just broke my heart because
they think of that unborn child
00:19:52.59\00:19:57.53
and they think of the rapist, so
there's a huge need for support.
00:19:57.56\00:20:03.53
You know, if there ever
was a time, like I was telling
00:20:04.23\00:20:06.57
Antionette, that we really
need to huddle around someone,
00:20:06.60\00:20:09.64
it's when they have
chosen to keep that pregnancy
00:20:09.67\00:20:12.41
even though it's a...
00:20:12.44\00:20:13.78
That makes so much sense
to me, but in a simple way,
00:20:13.84\00:20:16.71
am I right in
saying, in a simple way,
00:20:16.75\00:20:19.38
two wrongs don't make a right.
00:20:19.41\00:20:21.72
Is that
applicable to this situation?
00:20:21.75\00:20:23.75
Well, absolutely.
You don't abort the baby,
00:20:23.79\00:20:25.55
because it's not
the baby's fault.
00:20:25.59\00:20:27.66
That's right, and I
want to add one more thing
00:20:27.69\00:20:29.39
I read about
incest... a study that was done.
00:20:29.42\00:20:32.03
Both of these studies
come from the same book,
00:20:32.06\00:20:34.13
and tomorrow when
we go over resources,
00:20:34.20\00:20:36.43
I'll present this book.
00:20:36.46\00:20:40.10
But the incest
victims, over 75% of them...
00:20:40.17\00:20:45.01
well first of all,
out of the incest victims,
00:20:45.04\00:20:48.38
every one of them said
they felt like they were not
00:20:48.41\00:20:51.75
given a choice
in whether to abort.
00:20:51.78\00:20:56.38
Over 75% of those
that were victims of incest
00:20:56.42\00:21:01.26
who had become pregnant
said that abortion was not
00:21:01.29\00:21:05.59
the solution.
00:21:05.63\00:21:07.93
And I thought that was profound
because this data is coming
00:21:07.96\00:21:12.43
from people who have
experienced and have had
00:21:12.47\00:21:16.50
to go through it and we
don't hear those stories.
00:21:16.54\00:21:18.84
We hear other peoples' opinions.
00:21:18.87\00:21:20.48
You know, I've mentioned
before, society doesn't know
00:21:20.54\00:21:22.98
how to deal with trauma.
00:21:23.01\00:21:25.01
They want to take
care of it quick...
00:21:25.05\00:21:26.78
What better way than to abort.
00:21:26.82\00:21:29.42
We're running out of time fast.
00:21:29.45\00:21:30.79
We need to go
to other situations
00:21:30.85\00:21:34.39
where a woman's
life is at stake.
00:21:34.42\00:21:36.06
The life and health of the
mother, when they're spoken of,
00:21:36.09\00:21:39.56
many times, they're spoken of
00:21:39.59\00:21:40.93
as though they
are the same thing.
00:21:40.96\00:21:43.23
As a ministry, we believe
that we're made in the image of
00:21:43.30\00:21:49.04
the Lord, that we are valuable
because we're made in His image,
00:21:49.07\00:21:51.74
and He created us from our
very beginning with life...
00:21:51.77\00:21:55.81
Very beginning
conception, to natural death.
00:21:55.84\00:21:58.58
When you're
talking about an instance
00:21:58.61\00:22:01.25
of the life of the
mother, for example,
00:22:01.28\00:22:04.12
in some like an
ectopic pregnancy where her
00:22:04.19\00:22:07.26
physical life is threatened
and will likely be lost
00:22:07.29\00:22:11.39
if that child
remains inside of her.
00:22:11.43\00:22:14.10
An ectopic pregnancy is
where the zygote, at that point,
00:22:14.10\00:22:19.47
becomes lodged
in a fallopian tube,
00:22:19.50\00:22:21.94
and begins to grow and
the fallopian tube bursts or
00:22:21.97\00:22:28.08
could possibly burst and the
mother is going to hemorrhage.
00:22:28.11\00:22:30.65
She's going to bleed
out and very likely die.
00:22:30.71\00:22:32.75
In a situation like
that, our thought and belief
00:22:32.78\00:22:38.05
and I believe that the text
that we read today would agree,
00:22:38.09\00:22:41.92
is that you seek to save
as many lives as possible,
00:22:41.96\00:22:44.83
and so when the child is
lodged in the fallopian tube
00:22:44.86\00:22:48.13
is not in its proper environment
the unborn is meant to live
00:22:48.16\00:22:51.43
and grow in the uterus.
00:22:51.47\00:22:52.87
It's not meant to live and
grow anywhere else in the body,
00:22:52.90\00:22:55.60
and so when you go in and
remove a zygote, at that point,
00:22:55.64\00:23:00.68
that is in a fallopian
tube, that child is not going to
00:23:00.71\00:23:04.81
survive and live.
00:23:04.85\00:23:06.18
To our knowledge,
there's no way to remove a child
00:23:06.21\00:23:09.05
from a fallopian
tube, put it in the uterus,
00:23:09.08\00:23:11.42
and allow it to
continue to grow.
00:23:11.45\00:23:13.12
And so in a situation
like that, you're going in
00:23:13.15\00:23:16.19
and you're seeking to
save as many lives as possible,
00:23:16.22\00:23:18.96
which in this case
would be the mother's life.
00:23:18.99\00:23:20.40
And so in that situation,
it wouldn't be an act of
00:23:20.43\00:23:23.47
injustice that
tends to shorten life.
00:23:23.53\00:23:25.40
So it wouldn't be a violation
of the 6th commandment. Right
00:23:25.43\00:23:28.60
As compared to an
act of convenience. Right
00:23:28.64\00:23:32.24
You know, just
to make life easier.
00:23:32.27\00:23:34.34
To contrast that, the idea
of the health of the mother.
00:23:34.38\00:23:38.05
We we've covered in a previous
segment, when Roe v. Wade
00:23:38.08\00:23:44.59
was decided, a
companion case Doe v. Bolton was
00:23:44.62\00:23:47.56
decided at the same
time and abortion is legal
00:23:47.62\00:23:50.69
through all 9
months of pregnancy with a
00:23:50.73\00:23:52.73
health exception, except to
save the health of the mother.
00:23:52.76\00:23:55.70
Well, Doe v. Bolton defined
health as her physical health,
00:23:55.73\00:24:00.04
mental health, emotional
health, socioeconomic health,
00:24:00.07\00:24:03.51
virtually any kind of
reason for not going through
00:24:03.54\00:24:07.78
with the pregnancy that
you could possibly imagine.
00:24:07.81\00:24:09.71
That was fit into
that definition of health.
00:24:09.74\00:24:13.21
So when we're
talking about an exception to
00:24:13.25\00:24:16.35
save the health of the mother,
00:24:16.38\00:24:18.59
we are not talking
about her physical life.
00:24:18.62\00:24:21.59
That doesn't mean her
physical life will be taken.
00:24:21.62\00:24:24.33
All of these other reasons
have been crammed into that
00:24:24.36\00:24:27.86
word "health," and the
health exception is not the
00:24:27.93\00:24:32.23
same thing as an exception
for the life of the mother.
00:24:32.27\00:24:35.60
For us, the health exception
simply is not the same,
00:24:35.64\00:24:39.61
and when you have
already made that exception
00:24:39.64\00:24:41.48
for the life of the mom...
because again, we're seeking
00:24:41.51\00:24:43.81
to preserve as
many lives as possible,
00:24:43.85\00:24:45.68
why then is that health
exception that has allowed
00:24:45.71\00:24:48.52
for abortion on
demand necessary?
00:24:48.55\00:24:51.52
Right, I got it...
Now, the issue of freedom.
00:24:51.55\00:24:53.72
Just to quickly bring that up.
00:24:53.76\00:24:55.42
We all believe that
God has given us a law
00:24:55.46\00:24:59.16
and God is also a God
who gives people freedom.
00:24:59.19\00:25:01.50
And it's obvious that
we are all free to break
00:25:01.53\00:25:04.80
any one of the Commandments,
but that doesn't mean
00:25:04.83\00:25:07.64
that it's right and to me,
there's a clear distinction.
00:25:07.67\00:25:11.64
Women are free constitutionally
and in the sight of God
00:25:11.67\00:25:14.54
to have an
abortion if they choose.
00:25:14.58\00:25:16.18
But, the mission of the
church, or at least part of the
00:25:16.21\00:25:18.35
mission of the church
is to clarify the issues
00:25:18.38\00:25:20.92
that there is
still right and wrong,
00:25:20.95\00:25:22.85
and a violation of the
6th commandment is a violation
00:25:22.88\00:25:25.15
of the 6th commandment
and it's a wrong issue.
00:25:25.19\00:25:29.09
Yes, we're all free, but
we should be urging people
00:25:29.12\00:25:32.26
not to do what's
wrong, to do what's right
00:25:32.29\00:25:34.20
to value that life, value
the person in the image of God
00:25:34.30\00:25:38.27
and to make the
right choices. Absolutely
00:25:38.30\00:25:41.50
Well just as the church
is the standard bearer on
00:25:41.54\00:25:44.94
so many issues; all
of the Ten Commandments
00:25:44.97\00:25:49.94
in the same way,
the church should be the
00:25:50.01\00:25:51.98
standard bearer pointing
people to redemption and freedom
00:25:52.01\00:25:57.55
with the issue of
abortion just like any other.
00:25:57.59\00:26:00.69
It doesn't take away from their
freedom to speak what is truth.
00:26:00.72\00:26:03.66
And real freedom
comes when we come to God,
00:26:03.69\00:26:05.86
put Him first,
don't lose sight of Him,
00:26:05.89\00:26:07.30
follow His will,
stay away from sin,
00:26:07.36\00:26:09.16
do what's right,
and then we're free.
00:26:09.20\00:26:11.03
We're not guilty,
we're happy, we're at peace,
00:26:11.07\00:26:13.54
and we have the joy
of the Lord in our hearts
00:26:13.57\00:26:15.90
because we're
doing what is right.
00:26:15.94\00:26:18.41
And it's not dictating
the conscience to do that.
00:26:18.44\00:26:21.44
That's true, that's
right, and we're, you know,
00:26:21.48\00:26:23.24
freedom... God wants us to
use our freedom and follow Him,
00:26:23.28\00:26:29.05
and follow His will.
00:26:29.08\00:26:30.99
I have a verse to close with
which is from Revelation 14:12.
00:26:31.02\00:26:35.19
This is talking
about a final people.
00:26:35.22\00:26:37.56
The Bible says, "Here is
the patience of the saints,
00:26:37.63\00:26:40.80
here are those who keep
the Commandments of God,
00:26:40.83\00:26:43.93
and the faith of Jesus."
00:26:43.97\00:26:45.40
God is developing a
people in these final days
00:26:45.47\00:26:48.40
who are truly
commandment-keepers.
00:26:48.44\00:26:49.77
Now we've all broken
God's law, we've all sinned,
00:26:49.80\00:26:52.04
we need His grace,
we need His forgiveness,
00:26:52.07\00:26:54.04
and it's totally
available to everyone of us.
00:26:54.08\00:26:56.81
And God's goal is to show
us His grace, forgive our sins,
00:26:56.85\00:26:59.45
and change our lives so
fully that we then take a stand
00:26:59.48\00:27:03.52
that we want to be
commandment-keepers
00:27:03.55\00:27:05.65
... not just #1, not just #5,
not just 4, or 9, but 6 and 7
00:27:05.69\00:27:11.93
as we prepare for the
coming of Jesus Christ.
00:27:11.96\00:27:16.40
Steve Wohlberg's latest
pocket book "Hidden Holocaust"
00:27:16.43\00:27:20.64
is a must-read for
anyone contemplating an abortion
00:27:20.67\00:27:24.31
or who has had one.
00:27:24.34\00:27:25.74
While Steve shares the biblical
position on this controversial
00:27:25.77\00:27:29.24
subject, he also presents a
message of hope and healing.
00:27:29.28\00:27:33.42
To get your free
copy of the pocket book,
00:27:33.45\00:27:35.55
"Hidden Holocaust," just
call the toll free number
00:27:35.58\00:27:37.62
number on the screen and order
your copy today or write to:
00:27:37.65\00:27:40.86