Abortion is typically
seen as a woman's issue,
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but what about the men?
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Do words like guilt,
responsibility and love
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apply to the guys too?
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That's what's next on
The Abortion Controversy.
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Thank you for
joining us for Part 8
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of the 13-part series
called The Abortion Controversy.
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We have been dealing
with the ups and downs
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and ins and outs of
the abortion dilemma,
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and I've been
interviewing two women.
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We've been hearing
from a woman's perspective.
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And Dianne Wagner
and Antionette Duck
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of Mafgia ministry,
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they've dedicated
their lives to helping,
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to shed light
into this dark subject.
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And today we're
gonna shift gears
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and talk about the men.
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Men, it obviously
takes two to produce a baby
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and we are involved
and so, guys, get ready.
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We're gonna hear from the women
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and what they have to say to us.
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So, ladies, again,
thank you for being here.
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This has been a very
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enlightening series of programs.
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I've learned a lot and I
have a lot more to learn.
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So I'm gonna brace myself
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because I know you are
talking about the guys.
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And so where do
you want to start?
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You know, when we think
of the issue of abortion,
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it's really
remarkable the number of people
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who either claim or just believe
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that abortion is
simply a woman's issue,
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that abortion
only affects women,
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or that women
are the only people
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grappling with this issue.
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That idea is simply false.
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We know that statistically,
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over one third to
one half of all women
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will have had an abortion
by the time she reaches age 45.
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Wow, that's an
incredible statistic.
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It's staggering
and it applies to women
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who are in and
out of the church.
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If we say for
the sake of argument
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that there are the same number
of men and women in the world
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and we know that over one
third to one half of all women
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will have had an
abortion by the time she is 45.
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That means over one
half to one third of all men
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will have fathered a
child who was aborted.
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And I'm assuming in
a lot of those cases
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I guess we don't really know
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but that a lot of
those men don't even know
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that they fathered a child.
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Perhaps not, very likely not,
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but what we do
know is that abortion
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is not just a women's issue.
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In fact, what I wanted to share,
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I did some research on that
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and how men respond to the news
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of their
girlfriend or even wife,
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you know, who is pregnant
with an unintended pregnancy,
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and these are
what I came up with.
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You know, they can both agree
to the decision of an abortion,
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the man and woman,
they both decide together,
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or the man may
pressure the woman.
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He doesn't want
the responsibility
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so he will
threaten her, manipulate her
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into an abortion,
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threaten her into
leaving, abandoning her.
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So a lot of times
the woman doesn't want it
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but the man
puts the screws down.
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Unfortunately that's...
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He says you do this or else...
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That's right, then or
maybe it's a friend or a parent
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who is putting
pressure on that young lady
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and the man in this
case just stands aside
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and let other
people make the decision
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for his baby, you know.
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Another one is well,
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when the man may abandon
the relationship altogether.
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He just disappears.
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He gets the news, he leaves,
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so he's not even in
the decision process.
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He leaves the picture.
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Um, the man may
maintain the relationship
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but passively
leaves the decision to her.
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There's another one which,
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his partner may choose
abortion against his wishes
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and I've seen this.
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I've had men come to me
and share their experience
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where they wanted the
baby but their wife chose
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or their girlfriend chose,
you know, to have the abortion.
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And then the last one
was the man may not even know
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about the abortion
like you were just saying,
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it's until it's
already past if ever, you know.
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So those are responses of
men? Typical responses of men.
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And I'm sure we're gonna
get into the issue of what,
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how should men respond.
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I mean obviously the ideal
in an ideal world is for a man
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to wait until he gets married
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and for a woman to
wait until she gets married
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and then they don't
have to deal with this issue,
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at least most of the time.
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But we don't live
in an ideal world.
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We live in a
crazy, mixed up world
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that I've thought a
lot about this whole issue
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and it seems like a lot of
it's just like the Middle East.
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The Middle East mess
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between the Israelis
and the Palestinians,
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nobody can seem
to figure this out
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or unravel this
or bring about peace,
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and as long as we
live in a sinful world
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where people are
doing what they're doing,
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this dilemma is
going to come up, right?
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I mean, there's I
guess until the Lord comes
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and gets rid of sin,
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we're gonna be dealing with this
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until the end of time.
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Right, in fact,
earlier you were asking us
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as in giving us a scenario.
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Do you want to
go into that now or?
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Sure, I was telling you about,
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I had a real practical question.
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If I were to backtrack
back to my teenage years.
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I didn't grow up a Christian.
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I grew up in
the Hollywood Hills,
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went to North
Hollywood High School.
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At the age of 19, I
have never read the Bible,
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I never prayed,
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I didn't know
anything about God at all
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and I think there's a
lot of people like me,
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a lot of guys like me,
a lot of girls like me.
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Back then, and I was just living
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you know, I went to the parties,
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went to the rock
concerts, I smoked marijuana,
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snorted cocaine and
lived a very promiscuous life
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that I'm ashamed of right now.
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And now that I'm a
Christian, thank God,
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the Lord has changed my life.
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I did, by His
grace I waited until
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I got married with Kristen
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and we have two
beautiful children
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and it's just a
whole new world for me.
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But thinking about the
men's responsibility going back
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when I was 19,
what should I have done
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as a man if one of the
ladies that I met at a party
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or that I knew as
high school friend
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came to me and said,
Steve, brace yourself,
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I'm expecting a
baby and you are the dad.
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You know, what
should I have done?
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And we're talking
about the man's issue,
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what should,
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I wasn't ready to get married,
wasn't ready to be a dad.
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I didn't know anything about
getting married or being a dad.
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But give me the options
and tell me what you know,
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to make it practical
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what should some one like
me have done in that situation.
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Well, you know, the
idea of taking responsibility
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for something has really
become laws in our culture.
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I don't think
that we would say that
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just because a
couple gets pregnant,
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they are meant to get married.
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They are tremendous options,
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adoption being an incredible one
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where if a
couple does get pregnant
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and it is unplanned
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that there's a
way for that couple
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to move on with their lives
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and that giving your child up
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for adoption is a
difficult decision.
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It's a difficult process
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where in terms
of having to release
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that child to someone else
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but it helps to
preserve the life of everyone
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who is involved.
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There is a
quote I heard recently
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that said, um,
we live in a society
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where it's okay
for men to walk away
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and that's so poignant.
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It's so true but such a tragedy
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because um,
we've created a culture
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at least accepted one
where it's okay for men
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to engage in life
changing behaviors
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and yet when it comes
time to take responsibility
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to be a man of integrity,
to act with character,
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to say, I'm not
going to leave you,
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I'm going to walk by your side,
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I'm going to be with you
through this circumstance
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instead we put the
ownness you could say,
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a responsibility on women
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where men can
throw money at a problem
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and say go take care of it.
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You deal with it.
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He can just simply abandon
her and say this is your body,
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your choice so you
make that decision.
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Okay, so if I
wasn't ready to get married
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I should still
let the women know
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that I don't want
you to abort the baby.
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This is our baby.
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This is the life
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and I'm gonna support you
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and check out an adoption option
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and then if the
child did was born
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and then found a home,
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then I'm assuming as I look back
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that I should still
be in this situation
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in the picture so that the boy
or girl knows that I'm the dad.
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I'm dad even
though I made a mistake,
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I didn't marry your
mom but I'm your father.
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Is that the way I should
be or should I just bow out
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and just let another couple
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raise the child
not knowing about me.
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What's the right thing to do?
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And even another couple,
depending on the agreement
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in the adoption
scenario you know,
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because there is
different adoption scenarios
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where the
biological mother & father
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are able to have
some degree of contact
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with that child and
then there are situations
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where there's no contact.
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So that would depend
as far as the fathers
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but if there is an open
door for involvement, yes sir,
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that father needs to be in there
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and so many times we see
a young lady having the baby
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and with the support
of her mother and father
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you know, but
where is the father
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and the sad thing about
this is that child grows up
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without ever being acknowledged
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by its
biological father you know.
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Your mother and I
chose not to get married
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but that doesn't mean
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that you aren't
precious and valuable.
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And we talked about that too
that we I know you really told,
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you really want to stress that
00:10:48.84\00:10:50.28
if a man and
woman do come together
00:10:50.31\00:10:53.28
outside of marriage
even if it's just a one night
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stand or whatever and
the woman gets pregnant
00:10:55.92\00:10:58.25
and then they choose
not to abort the baby
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and the baby grows up, the baby
and she knows, he or she knows
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that the dad is not with me now
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at least it means
to be communicated
00:11:08.43\00:11:10.73
clearly to that
child that the mistake
00:11:10.77\00:11:14.57
was in what mom and dad
did but the mistake is not you.
00:11:14.60\00:11:18.71
You're not a mistake
right, you are not to blame,
00:11:18.74\00:11:22.38
you are still
precious and valuable
00:11:22.41\00:11:25.11
in the sight of God,
00:11:25.15\00:11:26.48
you have a purpose
and to me that's just
00:11:26.51\00:11:28.78
the lights really went
on when you told me that
00:11:28.82\00:11:31.29
that's really important.
00:11:31.32\00:11:32.72
Yes, and it's well, it's sad
00:11:32.75\00:11:35.62
because you know, we
engage in certain behaviors
00:11:35.66\00:11:39.06
and there are consequences.
00:11:39.09\00:11:40.66
We know that if we have sex,
00:11:40.70\00:11:42.00
particularly with
someone we're not married to,
00:11:42.03\00:11:44.73
sex can lead to pregnancy
00:11:44.77\00:11:46.77
and yet when if
someone winds up pregnant,
00:11:46.80\00:11:49.87
the child is
seen as a punishment
00:11:49.94\00:11:53.17
or a horrible
consequence of that behavior.
00:11:53.21\00:11:57.08
That child came by
the hand of the Lord.
00:11:57.11\00:12:00.12
If the Lord is our creator
00:12:00.15\00:12:01.48
and as believers we
really do believe that
00:12:01.52\00:12:03.79
then the child
came by hand of the Lord
00:12:03.82\00:12:06.35
and so instead of treating
00:12:06.39\00:12:09.56
and you know one
of the first seminars
00:12:09.59\00:12:10.99
that I ever gave, a
woman in the audience
00:12:11.03\00:12:12.86
really was strong in this point
00:12:12.89\00:12:14.60
that the sex outside of bounds
of the Lord had established,
00:12:14.63\00:12:20.70
that was the sin.
00:12:20.74\00:12:22.40
The child was not the
sin. The pregnancy was not.
00:12:22.44\00:12:24.61
And you know, this whole
topic sure re-emphasizes to me
00:12:24.64\00:12:29.18
and I'm sure to you
that following God's plan
00:12:29.21\00:12:32.28
as described in the Bible
00:12:32.31\00:12:33.68
as outlined in
the Garden of Eden
00:12:33.72\00:12:35.28
for a man to leave
his father and mother
00:12:35.32\00:12:37.35
be united to his
wife, not his girlfriend
00:12:37.39\00:12:40.92
or his boy friend but his wife
00:12:40.96\00:12:43.16
and the two of
them become one flesh
00:12:43.19\00:12:44.96
and it's in that context
that sexuality takes place
00:12:44.99\00:12:48.06
in the context of
commitment and in that context
00:12:48.10\00:12:50.60
children are born into the world
00:12:50.63\00:12:51.97
where they can grow up
00:12:52.00\00:12:53.34
and I know that's
just not what happens
00:12:53.37\00:12:55.07
so often in this world of
sin but it's still God's plan
00:12:55.10\00:12:59.57
and when we follow God's
plan, the result is blessing.
00:12:59.61\00:13:04.78
You know, so many
times we hear the,
00:13:04.81\00:13:07.02
"I'm not ready for this,
I'm not ready for a child."
00:13:07.05\00:13:10.39
And we need to
take on the mind set
00:13:10.42\00:13:14.26
of I'm not ready for sex
00:13:14.29\00:13:17.03
because I'm not ready to take on
00:13:17.06\00:13:18.93
what could be a result you know.
00:13:18.96\00:13:21.23
We are so quick to say
I'm not ready for this baby
00:13:21.26\00:13:24.33
but yet we so quick
to say I want the sex.
00:13:24.37\00:13:27.87
I'm ready for that.
00:13:27.90\00:13:29.27
And you know it's
understandable to some extent
00:13:29.30\00:13:33.21
I mean, when you
look at the sexuality
00:13:33.24\00:13:36.28
that just saturates our
society that people just do it.
00:13:36.31\00:13:42.62
They just do it, like
if it feels good do it
00:13:42.65\00:13:45.15
and they don't think
about the consequences
00:13:45.19\00:13:47.46
of producing a life so
the convenient thing to do
00:13:47.52\00:13:50.73
is just to get rid of the baby
00:13:50.79\00:13:52.86
when that's really
not God's plan at all.
00:13:52.89\00:13:56.70
Well, and it's
incredible Dianne,
00:13:56.73\00:13:58.07
I appreciate
something you mentioned earlier
00:13:58.10\00:13:59.67
that number of women
00:13:59.70\00:14:01.10
who would actually keep the baby
00:14:01.14\00:14:02.47
if the father
said, I won't leave you,
00:14:02.50\00:14:05.57
the scenario is that
she laid out men saying
00:14:05.61\00:14:08.71
I will leave you,
00:14:08.74\00:14:10.08
men threatening to
actually harm the woman
00:14:10.15\00:14:12.18
if she keeps the baby,
00:14:12.21\00:14:13.62
men just
completely abandoning her,
00:14:13.65\00:14:16.12
there are so many children,
00:14:16.15\00:14:18.22
who would be
alive walk in the earth
00:14:18.25\00:14:19.72
and so many women who
wouldn't be post-abortive
00:14:19.75\00:14:22.02
if men said I made a choice,
00:14:22.06\00:14:24.56
I'm going to be
a man of integrity
00:14:24.59\00:14:27.20
and I'm going to support you,
I'm going to pay child support,
00:14:27.23\00:14:30.33
we're gonna walk
through this thing together.
00:14:30.37\00:14:33.80
It's amazing the
number of women who said
00:14:33.84\00:14:35.74
"I would've kept my baby
but he would stand by me.
00:14:35.77\00:14:39.07
What was I going to do?
00:14:39.11\00:14:40.44
I had no where to
go, I had no support."
00:14:40.48\00:14:42.04
she doesn't want
to tell her parents.
00:14:42.08\00:14:43.61
She's in crisis and
that man in that situation
00:14:43.65\00:14:46.98
even if he is a 15 year
old, saying "You know what?
00:14:47.02\00:14:50.49
I'm not gonna leave you."
00:14:50.55\00:14:52.02
Now obviously, the
younger you are the more,
00:14:52.05\00:14:54.69
you have parental involvement
00:14:54.72\00:14:56.46
but considering the
majority of abortions take place
00:14:56.49\00:14:59.03
between 18 and 24,
you're talking about students,
00:14:59.06\00:15:03.06
that demographic,
they are in college,
00:15:03.10\00:15:04.93
they are single
00:15:04.97\00:15:06.30
and what you are
dealing with is, men,
00:15:06.33\00:15:09.60
who are saying it's
your body your choice
00:15:09.64\00:15:12.87
and we've really given them
00:15:12.91\00:15:14.28
kind of a
get-out-of-jail free card
00:15:14.31\00:15:15.88
because they get to put
their arms back and say,
00:15:15.91\00:15:18.28
"This is just a woman's issue.
00:15:18.31\00:15:19.81
I don't even have a voice here."
00:15:19.85\00:15:21.58
And walk away.
00:15:21.62\00:15:23.15
And it sounds like it's
not just the man's issue
00:15:23.18\00:15:25.85
and the woman's issue,
it's the parents' issue too.
00:15:26.05\00:15:27.89
I mean, if a girl
would've come to me and told me
00:15:27.92\00:15:30.93
that she was
pregnant because of me,
00:15:30.96\00:15:33.83
my parents need to be involved
00:15:33.90\00:15:35.90
as their son
00:15:35.93\00:15:37.47
and we all need to
network together and say, "Okay,
00:15:37.53\00:15:40.30
I made a mistake, I did wrong
but I need to owned up to this
00:15:40.34\00:15:43.71
and at least if you
we're not ready to get morning,
00:15:43.77\00:15:45.37
we 're ready to act responsibly
00:15:45.41\00:15:47.24
and to be a part
of this woman's life
00:15:47.28\00:15:49.51
and this baby's life
and do the best we can.
00:15:49.54\00:15:52.75
And then all goes back
to acknowledging the value,
00:15:52.78\00:15:56.25
the value of this son, "Okay,
00:15:56.28\00:15:58.85
he's living a
very irresponsible life
00:15:58.89\00:16:01.62
but he's still
created in the image of God."
00:16:01.66\00:16:03.86
That's right.
00:16:03.89\00:16:05.23
And my dad should have said
00:16:05.26\00:16:06.59
or it never
came up or my mother,
00:16:06.63\00:16:08.16
this is my, this
is the grand child.
00:16:08.20\00:16:09.76
And that's exactly right.
00:16:09.80\00:16:12.70
Okay, so I think
you've answered my question
00:16:12.73\00:16:14.67
concerning me
00:16:14.70\00:16:16.07
as a promiscuous
19 year old, Godless
00:16:16.10\00:16:18.61
just doing
whatever I wanted to do.
00:16:18.64\00:16:20.38
Now what about
your and your husband
00:16:20.41\00:16:23.04
or your fiance situation,
your situation as you told,
00:16:23.08\00:16:26.95
you've discovered that
you were expecting at 25,
00:16:27.02\00:16:30.39
you were not married yet,
00:16:30.42\00:16:31.85
you six months
until the wedding day,
00:16:31.89\00:16:33.69
go into what
should a Christian man do
00:16:35.66\00:16:38.39
if he finds out the situation.
00:16:38.43\00:16:40.40
How should he relate?
00:16:40.43\00:16:41.73
Well, certainly, a Christian,
00:16:41.76\00:16:43.53
Unexpected development.
00:16:43.57\00:16:45.23
Right, exactly, well, you know,
what should a Christian man do,
00:16:45.27\00:16:48.44
well hopefully
that Christian man,
00:16:48.47\00:16:51.61
not just believes in
God but believes God.
00:16:51.64\00:16:55.71
By believing in God, you have
that experience, God is there.
00:16:55.94\00:17:00.05
So when I you know, you
said a Christian man hopefully
00:17:00.08\00:17:03.02
that man will
appreciate the value of life
00:17:03.05\00:17:07.69
so won't be even be an
option as far as the abortion.
00:17:07.72\00:17:11.06
you know, that it's
like, "We have a baby."
00:17:11.09\00:17:13.33
You know, now you know,
you had asked about my husband,
00:17:13.36\00:17:18.37
I have no doubt his love for
me and many men fall into this
00:17:18.40\00:17:24.11
where they leave
it up to the woman.
00:17:24.14\00:17:25.74
They support her,
David flew to Reno,
00:17:25.77\00:17:29.14
he paid for the abortion,
he went to the clinic with me,
00:17:29.18\00:17:32.38
you know, went
with me afterwards
00:17:32.78\00:17:35.02
back to my
apartment where I was living
00:17:35.05\00:17:37.82
and he supported me
the very best way he knew.
00:17:37.85\00:17:42.86
And we've talked
about it a number of times,
00:17:42.89\00:17:45.43
and we've been
through the crisis,
00:17:45.46\00:17:48.53
and the Lord has
restored our relationship
00:17:48.56\00:17:52.67
but one thing that
had a big impact on him
00:17:52.70\00:17:56.37
was that it was legal.
00:17:56.40\00:17:58.41
It was legal.
00:17:58.44\00:17:59.77
You know it wasn't like we
were doing anything "wrong"
00:17:59.81\00:18:03.01
so...
00:18:03.04\00:18:04.38
From the government's
perspective, constitutionally.
00:18:04.41\00:18:07.05
So, but now of course
00:18:07.08\00:18:09.32
he has had his regrets you know,
00:18:09.35\00:18:11.45
and he's gone to the Lord,
00:18:11.49\00:18:14.62
he's gone to the
feet of Jesus with that
00:18:14.66\00:18:17.46
and being a man I don't know
00:18:17.49\00:18:20.66
if we need to go into
yet as far as the grief
00:18:20.73\00:18:23.87
and the
experiences that for a man.
00:18:23.90\00:18:26.10
But you know, men have
when they do come to the point
00:18:26.13\00:18:30.11
where they realize
what they did was wrong.
00:18:30.14\00:18:32.94
Like you came
to that conclusion.
00:18:32.97\00:18:34.44
Right, men too
come to the same thing
00:18:34.48\00:18:36.14
and that impacts
men in a different way
00:18:36.18\00:18:38.25
because it's God given.
00:18:38.28\00:18:40.25
A man is to be the
head of the household.
00:18:40.32\00:18:43.99
The "houseband," the
protector, the provider
00:18:44.02\00:18:47.36
and so everything
that is innately in him,
00:18:47.39\00:18:51.46
he went against.
00:18:51.49\00:18:52.96
So the guilt that
a man experiences,
00:18:52.99\00:18:55.43
especially when men are the ones
00:18:55.46\00:18:57.77
who want to go in there and
fix and make everything right
00:18:57.80\00:19:01.07
you know, where
just, take care of things.
00:19:01.10\00:19:04.04
So when a man comes
back and he realizes,
00:19:04.07\00:19:07.41
he wasn't there for his wife
or his lover or loved one...
00:19:07.44\00:19:12.58
That was his baby too.
00:19:12.61\00:19:14.05
And that was his baby
00:19:14.08\00:19:15.42
so he wasn't
there for that baby,
00:19:15.45\00:19:17.55
you know, men can have a
terrible reaction to that
00:19:17.62\00:19:22.16
and as much as women
stuff it, men stuff it deeper
00:19:22.19\00:19:27.23
and a lot of times you know,
they will fall into alcoholism.
00:19:27.23\00:19:31.03
It's very common.
00:19:31.07\00:19:32.97
They'll have
post-abortive, dramatic...
00:19:33.00\00:19:34.80
They have own post-abortive...
00:19:34.84\00:19:36.54
Symptoms as well. Exactly.
00:19:36.57\00:19:38.51
And you know
with a men whose wives
00:19:39.14\00:19:43.11
have chosen to have an abortion
even against their will,
00:19:43.14\00:19:47.22
those men it's really sad
00:19:47.25\00:19:48.88
because their voice has
been taken away from them.
00:19:48.92\00:19:51.52
So they deal with
anger and helplessness.
00:19:51.55\00:19:54.32
They've lost their voice
and they've lost all control
00:19:54.36\00:19:58.39
over saving the
life of that child.
00:19:58.43\00:20:00.83
And they, my heart
really goes out to those men
00:20:00.90\00:20:03.83
because they've been
stripped of their protector,
00:20:03.87\00:20:08.84
you know, the provider,
00:20:08.87\00:20:10.37
every thing has been
taken away from them.
00:20:10.41\00:20:13.24
So in fact, I was
telling Antionette this morning
00:20:13.27\00:20:16.71
how it was in 1976
that the Supreme court
00:20:16.75\00:20:20.48
decided that a
husband had no legal right
00:20:20.52\00:20:23.75
to limit his
wife's decision to abort.
00:20:23.79\00:20:26.59
He has no voice.
00:20:26.62\00:20:28.12
So it's not just
what the wife does to him.
00:20:28.16\00:20:31.93
It's society.
00:20:31.96\00:20:33.29
They have stripped
him of his manhood.
00:20:33.36\00:20:36.30
Right, so we can't
just say that just because
00:20:36.33\00:20:38.43
the government has
made it legal in 1973,
00:20:38.47\00:20:42.10
that the
government is infallible
00:20:42.14\00:20:43.77
and then every decision
00:20:43.84\00:20:45.17
in every law that it
passes is necessarily right.
00:20:45.21\00:20:49.48
Right, exactly.
00:20:49.51\00:20:50.88
The government is
made up of the people
00:20:50.91\00:20:52.25
that are sinners
like the rest of us
00:20:52.28\00:20:53.62
and only God is
infallible and His word.
00:20:53.65\00:20:55.55
And we need to follow His plan.
00:20:55.58\00:20:57.95
So what does the man do
00:20:57.99\00:20:59.32
when he
struggles with the anger,
00:20:59.35\00:21:00.99
struggles with the
guilt that he is, he grieves?
00:21:01.02\00:21:03.26
Absolutely grieves.
00:21:03.29\00:21:04.63
In fact...
00:21:04.66\00:21:05.99
Does he go through a grieving?
00:21:06.03\00:21:07.40
He does. How
does he get out of it?
00:21:07.40\00:21:09.56
Well, one thing
that I see happening
00:21:09.60\00:21:12.10
and I'm really
thrilled to see this.
00:21:12.13\00:21:14.00
There are more and
more sites for men to go to
00:21:14.04\00:21:18.31
and when men are with other
men that have gone through it
00:21:18.34\00:21:23.91
just like when any
kind of group setting
00:21:25.45\00:21:27.62
when you are with other people
00:21:27.65\00:21:29.45
who've
experienced the same trauma,
00:21:29.48\00:21:31.59
it's making an impact
00:21:31.62\00:21:32.95
and these men are able to
pull this up out of the deep
00:21:32.99\00:21:36.69
and they realized
they're similar experiences.
00:21:36.73\00:21:40.06
And they are able
to share their pain.
00:21:40.10\00:21:41.90
In fact, I wanted
to read you this letter
00:21:41.93\00:21:44.50
I got from a gentleman.
00:21:44.53\00:21:46.70
Please do.
00:21:46.77\00:21:48.10
I won't read the whole letter
but this, I highlighted parts
00:21:48.14\00:21:50.74
and I wanted you to
hear 'cause he said,
00:21:50.77\00:21:53.81
"I have wept, I have
prayed and thankfully
00:21:53.84\00:21:57.08
I have decided
to take some level
00:21:57.11\00:21:58.85
of action for me personally.
00:21:58.88\00:22:01.32
I will be dedicating my baby."
00:22:01.35\00:22:04.65
And he was referring to God,
"He knows I have wept often."
00:22:04.69\00:22:08.16
Was this the baby
that's been aborted?
00:22:08.19\00:22:09.72
This is a man who is
post-abortive, right.
00:22:09.76\00:22:12.96
"He knows that
I have wept often,
00:22:12.99\00:22:14.83
referring to God,
00:22:14.83\00:22:16.53
"and afresh after
reading your story
00:22:16.56\00:22:18.83
and reflecting on mine
and I have repented of my sin,
00:22:18.87\00:22:23.24
nothing I can do will
bring back that child."
00:22:23.27\00:22:27.48
And the reason I'm
sharing this with you is because
00:22:27.54\00:22:30.45
I do feel like there are
men in the viewing audience
00:22:30.51\00:22:34.22
who wrestle with this.
00:22:34.28\00:22:35.88
I, both of us
have had experiences
00:22:35.92\00:22:38.92
and one gentleman came up to me,
00:22:38.95\00:22:43.32
he didn't know my
story and he said,
00:22:43.39\00:22:46.33
"My grown
daughters won't talk to me
00:22:46.36\00:22:49.23
and I believe it's
because I had an abortion
00:22:49.26\00:22:51.43
when I was in college."
00:22:51.47\00:22:53.17
Just out of the blue, you know,
00:22:53.20\00:22:55.34
how that resurfaces
that unresolved issue.
00:22:55.37\00:22:58.37
you know, this is just
re-emphasizes last program that
00:22:59.07\00:23:03.85
where we talked
about the church.
00:23:03.88\00:23:05.61
The church is supposed to
be a voice in the wilderness.
00:23:05.65\00:23:07.78
It's supposed to have a voice
00:23:07.82\00:23:09.15
in this is such a
big issue in the society
00:23:09.18\00:23:11.22
and it's so deep
buried in people's hearts
00:23:11.25\00:23:13.66
that it just doesn't make
sense from God's perspective
00:23:13.69\00:23:16.09
that the church
just ignore the issue
00:23:16.12\00:23:17.86
and put it in the closet
00:23:17.89\00:23:19.23
that we need to be
talking about the issue,
00:23:19.26\00:23:20.80
we need to be able
to reach out to people,
00:23:20.83\00:23:22.13
we need to have resources,
we need to have ministries,
00:23:22.16\00:23:25.00
we need to have
discussions and answers
00:23:25.03\00:23:27.74
so that women who are struggling
00:23:27.77\00:23:29.74
and men who are struggling
00:23:29.77\00:23:31.47
will have
somewhere to go to resolve
00:23:31.51\00:23:36.34
and to bring healing to
some of the deepest wounds.
00:23:36.38\00:23:40.08
I mean, I can't
think of, my children
00:23:40.18\00:23:41.58
are more important
to me than life itself
00:23:41.62\00:23:43.59
and to my wife and
if I would have had
00:23:43.65\00:23:46.72
or a Christian would
have had an abortion,
00:23:46.76\00:23:48.56
I mean, the trauma
would be deep in me and in her
00:23:48.59\00:23:52.43
and we would need help
00:23:52.46\00:23:54.20
and what better place
to go than to the church
00:23:54.23\00:23:58.33
that God's plan is
00:23:58.37\00:24:00.94
that it tells the
truth in a loving way
00:24:00.97\00:24:04.11
and is able to minister
to people like Jesus did
00:24:04.14\00:24:08.31
and Jesus wants to help
everybody with whatever sin
00:24:08.34\00:24:11.15
whatever crisis
anybody is going through.
00:24:11.18\00:24:13.42
That's right. This
makes perfect sense to me.
00:24:13.45\00:24:15.42
I appreciate that you
raised the point of the church,
00:24:15.45\00:24:17.49
you know, because this idea
00:24:17.52\00:24:19.45
that it's not
just a women's issue
00:24:19.49\00:24:21.19
or that is just a women's issue
00:24:21.22\00:24:23.02
really does exist in
the church across the board,
00:24:23.06\00:24:26.80
across denominations and
what I hope that we will,
00:24:26.83\00:24:31.10
I hope the place we
will come to is that
00:24:31.13\00:24:34.00
the
responsibility and culpability
00:24:34.04\00:24:36.07
for the act of abortion,
00:24:36.10\00:24:37.97
it lies at the sin
of both men and women.
00:24:38.01\00:24:41.08
Men, they don't get to
just walk away, they don't.
00:24:41.11\00:24:45.35
The responsibility for
what she had to go through
00:24:45.38\00:24:48.72
walking through
that abortion alone,
00:24:48.75\00:24:51.05
the spiritual
repercussions that she suffering
00:24:51.09\00:24:54.16
that lies at the feet
of both men and women.
00:24:56.26\00:24:59.16
There are numbers upon numbers
of men who have stood aside,
00:24:59.19\00:25:05.33
while girlfriends,
wives, sisters, daughters
00:25:05.37\00:25:08.27
had to go through
that experience alone
00:25:08.30\00:25:10.41
and the message of value,
the message of redemption,
00:25:10.44\00:25:14.48
the message of...
00:25:14.51\00:25:16.34
Life, forgiveness.
00:25:16.38\00:25:18.18
And forgiveness,
it needs to be heard
00:25:18.21\00:25:20.32
by both men and women
00:25:20.35\00:25:22.65
and you think about men
being leaders in the home
00:25:22.68\00:25:25.79
and in the church.
00:25:25.82\00:25:27.99
Our men bear such a
high end responsibility
00:25:28.02\00:25:31.16
as our leaders in the
home, leaders in the family
00:25:31.19\00:25:33.80
and the leaders of the church
00:25:33.83\00:25:35.76
that to be a
voice on this issue,
00:25:35.80\00:25:38.43
that their
voices would be louder,
00:25:38.47\00:25:40.40
then even
women's voices in saying,
00:25:40.80\00:25:43.20
we've been divinely
ordained to protect, to defend
00:25:43.24\00:25:47.44
and we are going to take
up that calling boldly in love
00:25:47.48\00:25:52.55
that seek to defend the weakest
and most vulnerable among us.
00:25:52.58\00:25:56.28
I got it.
00:25:56.32\00:25:57.75
The lights are on and
as you're talking it seems,
00:25:57.79\00:26:00.59
it sounds to me, it's
not just a women's issue,
00:26:00.62\00:26:02.99
it's not just a men's issue,
it's a church issue as well
00:26:03.02\00:26:06.93
that the church
just like you said
00:26:06.96\00:26:09.30
there is sin with
the women and the men
00:26:09.33\00:26:11.70
but it sounds to me
that there can be sin
00:26:11.73\00:26:14.37
with the church in
not dealing with the issue
00:26:14.40\00:26:17.51
and in not
reaching out a helping hand
00:26:17.54\00:26:19.37
to those who need God
and His love in this crisis.
00:26:19.41\00:26:23.95
Well, we're out of time.
00:26:23.98\00:26:25.45
I'm gonna wind up
with a Bible verse,
00:26:25.48\00:26:28.25
especially to the men
00:26:28.28\00:26:29.82
and this is in 1st
Timothy, chapter 6, verse 11,
00:26:29.85\00:26:33.09
the Bible says,
"But you, O man of God,
00:26:33.46\00:26:37.33
flee from all these things."
00:26:37.36\00:26:38.69
concerning immorality,
"and pursue righteousness,"
00:26:38.73\00:26:41.30
do what's right,
00:26:41.33\00:26:42.66
whatever the
situation you are in
00:26:42.70\00:26:44.03
"and godliness,"
live a God-lead life
00:26:44.07\00:26:46.13
as according to God's
plan you'll save yourself
00:26:46.17\00:26:48.74
years of heartache
and "faith and love,"
00:26:48.77\00:26:52.44
God's love, Jesus' love,
00:26:52.47\00:26:53.84
we're supposed to be
the channels for Jesus,
00:26:53.88\00:26:56.31
what would Jesus do
in these situations.
00:26:56.34\00:26:59.41
"And patience and gentleness."
00:26:59.45\00:27:03.02
We need to come close
to those that are hurting.
00:27:03.05\00:27:05.32
We need to be men,
we need to take a stand,
00:27:05.35\00:27:07.59
we need to do what's
right so God can bless us
00:27:07.62\00:27:10.46
and use us as His hands
and His heart in a world
00:27:10.49\00:27:14.66
that is just falling
apart because of sin.
00:27:14.73\00:27:18.30
Men, may God help us.
00:27:18.33\00:27:20.54
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and Antionette Duck
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