Have you ever met a woman whose
mother planned to abort her,
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but changed her mind?
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You're about to
meet that person next on
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"The Abortion Controversy"
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Welcome to Part 3 of "The
Abortion Controversy Series"
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This is a 13-Part
series and in Parts 1 and 2,
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I interviewed Dianne
Wagoner, a lady who has had
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2 abortions who
struggled terribly as a result
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of the guilt and the
pain, but who found healing
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through the love and the
mercy, and the grace of God.
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And for Part 3, I'm going
to interview Antionette Duck.
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She is an attorney from Georgia.
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She, unlike Dianne,
she never had an abortion,
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but she was almost
aborted, but her mother changed
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her mind and she is here today,
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and she has quite a story a you!
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So, Antionette, I'll shake
your hand as I did Dianne's.
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Glad you're here
so much... Thank you
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It's just wonderful,
and I have heard your story
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on the internet really, but
we've only really met today,
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and I told Dianne that what
really crossed me over the line,
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after I had been wrestling
with whether we should do
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something on this
topic, was hearing your story
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and her story in a hotel,
in Oregon on Saturday night,
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out of my iPhone.
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I heard it from a website,
and it just... I tell you,
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it just really moved me
and that's what brought me
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over the line and I said,
we've got to bring you in here,
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we've got to talk to
you, we've got to hear more.
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So, it's just great
to be here with you.
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I have your little
book, "Mafgia"... "gee-a"
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It's always... it's another
tongue-twister... "Maf-gee-a."
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Lift up your voice...
This is your little book that
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deals with abortion
and I've heard a rumor that
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Georgia attorneys
are pretty passionate.
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Well, I hope so.
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And I know you are too, so
wherever you want to start,
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just start and just
tell us your story... Okay
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And, let's just go from there.
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When my mother became
pregnant back in 1981,
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she was in an
extremely abusive marriage.
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Her husband, my biological
father, was addicted to drugs
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and alcohol and the marriage
could be quite frightening,
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it could be quite
scary and very violent.
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And, when she began to
experience morning sickness,
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she did not want to bring a
child into that relationship.
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She wasn't a believer
and didn't want to bring
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a child into that relationship.
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And she said, "I
am not going to stay
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in this relationship, and
I'm certainly not going to
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bring a baby into
this relationship."
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And so what she decided
to do is, she was going to
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save up money; she was going
to go back home to California
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because abortions were
actually free back in 1981
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in California at that
time, and she was going to
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save up her money, get on
a bus, go back to California,
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and be done with
this relationship.
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Well, she started to
secretly give money to a friend
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for safekeeping and she
worked over a period of time,
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gave money to her
friend and when she thought
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she had enough and she was
ready to go back to California,
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she went to her friend
and asked for her money.
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And her friend said,
"What money, I spent all of it."
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Spent it all... It's gone!
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So she never got the
money to go to California?
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She never got the
money and she had no way out.
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She had no options,
she didn't know what to do.
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Well, my biological
father knew that she was
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experiencing morning
sickness, and he cut out this ad
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in the paper and the ad said,
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"Hey, I'm alive -
voice of the pre-born,"
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Columbus, Georgia,
because that's where she
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was living at the time,
and it was an advertisement
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from a Baptist Church,
and they were running a
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Crisis Pregnancy Center
for Women out of the church,
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back in 1981 and so she
called, she made an appointment.
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She was hoping actually
that they would help her
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have an abortion and
when she went in and asked,
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"Will you help me
have the abortion?"
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they said, "No, but will you
come back for some counseling?"
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So, she goes back for counseling
and when she went in for
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counseling, she picked up
a magazine, when she was in
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her session and back in
1965, a photographer had taken
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photos of the baby in
utero and it was the first time,
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back in 1965, that was
the first time the world had
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seen pictures of
the baby in utero,
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and it showed all these
different stages of development
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from just throughout
the gestational period.
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And, she saw fingers
and toes and arms and legs,
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and hands and feet.
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She had no idea that the
baby inside of her was alive.
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I'm not sure you've
seen that picture of a little
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hand coming out... Yes!
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It was "Life Magazine"
cover with the little hand
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coming out...
showing a surgery - right,
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and the little hand
grabbed the hand of the surgeon
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and that picture
went around the world. Yes
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And just showed that
there's somebody in there!
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Yes, absolutely!
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Well, and she had
thought the baby was just
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a mass of protoplasm,
that's what she had been taught.
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It's literally just
a mass of protoplasm,
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so when she saw the
formation, when she saw
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not just how it developed,
but that it was a human being
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inside, the Holy Spirit
just fell on her and she knew
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no matter what happens,
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I'm going through
it with this baby. Wow
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Well, that baby was me,
and so over 30 years later,
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here I am because other
people interceded for my life.
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They believed in her value,
they believed in my value,
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and they weren't
willing just to stay silent,
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and that was the
story of my beginning.
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And you're still close with
your mother today, right? Yes!
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Because she's still
alive and you have good contact
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and talk on the phone
and how often do you see her?
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Yes, well as often...
Atlanta isn't too far away from
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Columbus and so whenever
I'm able to get down there...
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I have 3 brothers as
well; all who are adopted.
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Their mothers were
all in crisis pregnancy
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situations the way
that my mother was,
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and they were
adopted into our family.
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And I'm assuming your
mother knows that you're here
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today... right? Oh yes!
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So she's probably praying
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so we'll give her a good
report when this is over.
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Yes, absolutely! Very
excited, very excited about it.
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Now tell me a
little bit about your
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church background
as you were growing up.
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Sure, sure... Or
any church background.
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I'll preface it by saying
that what I want people to
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understand is... You
know, there are many concerns
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about women who are in these
crisis pregnancy situations,
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and their
circumstances being terrible,
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and in my story, it's important
to know that our circumstances
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did not change, and
so when my mother chose
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to have me and raise me
and love me so very much,
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but our
circumstances didn't change.
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My father was still my father,
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and life could
be very frightening
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and it could be very
scary, and I began to...
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I got very angry; I was hurt;
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I was wounded and
became very angry as a child
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that the Lord would allow
me to live life in this way.
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I really... I got to
a point where I thought
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"You owe me... I
shouldn't have to...
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I'm angry at You that
I had this childhood."
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And I was... How old were you
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when you were
thinking those thoughts?
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I think it was
sort of a progression.
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I don't know that I
ever... Well, may I did
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say it out loud,
I made a decision
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to accept the Lord at 8.
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I was raised in a
Southern Baptist Church.
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The church that had started
the Crisis Pregnancy Center,
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they just
embraced my mother and I.
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They literally
wrapped their arms around us,
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and loved us so very much.
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They didn't just love
us in the crisis pregnancy,
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they loved us
throughout my growing up there.
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But the anger and the
resentment, the ingratitude,
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really did take
root in my heart,
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and it was a process...
it didn't happen overnight
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because I loved...
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And that's because
your home was not... Right
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Things weren't together and
you were having problems and...
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And my father was very wounded.
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He had been very
wounded as a child,
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and so there was a whole history
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of why he was
the way that he was.
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And I loved him so
deeply, so very much.
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Is he still alive? He is, yes.
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You still have
relations, you talk to him?
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I pray for him and
I've reached out to him.
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We don't have
much communication.
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Even though I loved him though,
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I really struggled with
feelings of anger and hatred
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that my life had
been the way that it was,
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and I found myself, as I
got older, it was in that
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mindset of just an
ingratitude, I couldn't see
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all that the Lord
had saved me from.
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I couldn't see all
that He had spared me from.
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I couldn't see past my
anger, past the resentment,
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past the pain and it was in that
mindset that I began to date.
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It was in that mindset
that I began to experiment
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sexually and I
made many mistakes
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that were just
extremely regrettable.
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What's
phenomenal and so reflective
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of who the Lord
really is though,
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is that He
didn't leave me there.
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He remembered me in my darkness.
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And, He came for
me, He rescued me.
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You had asked me earlier
what my favorite verse was,
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and one of them is
Micah 7:8 where it says that,
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"Do not rejoice over me my
enemy, when I fall, I will rise"
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I know that verse...
When I sit in darkness,
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the Lord will be a light to me."
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And that is genuinely
true of my experience,
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my relationship with the Lord.
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So He was with you in
the darkness of the womb,
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and He brought you
out! He rescued me again.
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And He was with you in the
darkness from 8 and onward,
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and even before that
and you know that no matter
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what you've been through,
He's been there. Absolutely!
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And that's an important
message for the world...
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is that God doesn't leave us
very easily... Yes, absolutely.
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And it was after I
came back to the Lord that
00:11:03.83\00:11:07.66
my mother actually had
passed on some information about
00:11:07.70\00:11:10.77
the Sabbath day; I was raised
in a Sunday-keeping church,
00:11:10.80\00:11:13.90
and had never really
studied the Sabbath day,
00:11:13.94\00:11:18.04
and when she gave
me that information,
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I really began to
study it and read up on it.
00:11:20.88\00:11:23.21
And as I did, I just
became convinced that
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I needed to keep Sabbath.
00:11:26.41\00:11:28.58
And so, I actually
started worshipping in a
00:11:28.62\00:11:32.39
Messianic Synagogue which
was a tremendous amount of fun
00:11:32.42\00:11:35.22
because there's a
lot of celebration there,
00:11:35.26\00:11:37.23
in the singing and the
love, the love of the Word.
00:11:37.26\00:11:42.00
So that's a Jewish congregation
that believes in Jesus... Yes
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I have a Jewish
background, not very secular,
00:11:46.57\00:11:48.57
but became a believer
when I was 20 years old.
00:11:48.60\00:11:51.87
And I loved it, I
absolutely loved it.
00:11:51.91\00:11:54.41
But I was still seeking
in terms of where my ultimate
00:11:54.44\00:12:00.15
church home would be.
00:12:00.18\00:12:01.52
And my mom,
actually, had suggested,
00:12:01.55\00:12:03.72
"Why don't you consider the
Seventh-day Adventist Church?"
00:12:03.75\00:12:06.12
And I said, "Okay,"
so I went to a couple;
00:12:06.15\00:12:11.06
I was in law school at the
time, and I started searching
00:12:11.09\00:12:13.76
around when I was in
Virginia Beach, up there.
00:12:13.80\00:12:16.67
And I started attending
the "Chesapeake Church."
00:12:16.70\00:12:21.14
"Chesapeake
Seventh-day Adventist Church"
00:12:21.17\00:12:22.50
in Virginia Beach, and I
fell in love with the church,
00:12:22.54\00:12:26.31
and the people there.
00:12:26.34\00:12:27.71
They were real - just like me.
00:12:27.74\00:12:31.55
They were working out their
salvation - just like I was,
00:12:31.58\00:12:36.48
but they were REAL in
terms that they loved the Lord.
00:12:36.52\00:12:41.72
And they were committed
to Him and they wanted to
00:12:41.76\00:12:45.73
spend forever with Him,
and they just embraced me.
00:12:45.76\00:12:48.50
It was phenomenal the
way that they literally
00:12:48.53\00:12:51.83
just embraced me.
00:12:51.87\00:12:53.20
Was it you and your
mom going to the church?
00:12:53.23\00:12:54.84
No, I was in Virginia, yes,
so she was still in Georgia,
00:12:54.87\00:12:57.61
and I was just going on my own.
00:12:57.64\00:13:00.28
She was attending
church down in Georgia.
00:13:00.31\00:13:04.08
When I... I studied for
about 1-1/2 years while I was in
00:13:05.68\00:13:09.72
law school... just I began just
soaking up all of the different
00:13:09.75\00:13:13.29
information about -
just the word and had really
00:13:13.32\00:13:21.10
became convinced that
this is where I needed to be,
00:13:21.13\00:13:25.40
the Seventh-day
Adventist Church.
00:13:25.43\00:13:26.77
And how long ago was that,
what year are we talking about?
00:13:26.80\00:13:28.87
That was about 2009, I was
just about to finish law school.
00:13:28.90\00:13:34.28
One afternoon, I
had wondered what the
00:13:34.31\00:13:38.88
church's
position on abortion was.
00:13:38.91\00:13:40.38
I had no ever actually looked
or investigated it at all.
00:13:40.42\00:13:44.65
And when I read
what the position was,
00:13:44.69\00:13:49.49
I really struggled.
00:13:49.52\00:13:52.46
There were inconsistencies
there that I really
00:13:52.49\00:13:56.77
struggled with, given my
background, given my heart
00:13:56.80\00:14:00.87
for the unborn; given
my desire to see our church
00:14:00.90\00:14:04.31
be one that magnifies the
Lord and glorifies the Lord
00:14:04.34\00:14:08.41
is the standard
bearer in every possible way.
00:14:08.44\00:14:12.01
And did you have any kind
of a ministry for the unborn
00:14:12.05\00:14:17.12
or for the value of life
or anything like that prior to
00:14:17.15\00:14:20.56
your checking
out the Adventists?
00:14:20.59\00:14:22.46
No, no not at all.
00:14:22.49\00:14:24.29
I was just a law student and
I was thinking about the bar,
00:14:24.33\00:14:26.80
I need to pass it
to become a lawyer.
00:14:26.83\00:14:29.36
And you wanted to know
Jesus better? Yes, yes!
00:14:29.40\00:14:31.30
And you learned about the
Sabbath, and you showed up,
00:14:31.33\00:14:33.40
you liked the
people, and loved the people
00:14:33.44\00:14:35.24
I did, I loved the people. Yes
00:14:35.27\00:14:37.44
This though, I really
sort of had a crisis of faith
00:14:37.47\00:14:41.61
because I loved this
church, I knew that it was like
00:14:41.64\00:14:44.95
coming home and if I couldn't
be a part of this church,
00:14:44.98\00:14:49.72
there really wasn't
anywhere else for me to go.
00:14:49.75\00:14:51.65
You're a member of the
Adventist Church now. Yes
00:14:51.69\00:14:53.69
Now, were you going
through the struggle before
00:14:53.72\00:14:55.46
you became a member or
after you became a member? Yes
00:14:55.49\00:14:57.73
Before I became a member, yes.
00:14:57.76\00:15:00.13
So this was a struggle
for you to choose to continue
00:15:00.16\00:15:04.87
to go forward and
to be a member. Yes
00:15:04.90\00:15:07.17
Because you found out that
there are, I think, probably
00:15:07.20\00:15:10.21
the way to say would be,
there are some pro-choice
00:15:10.24\00:15:13.07
elements within the church.
00:15:13.11\00:15:15.28
How strong they
are, I don't know.
00:15:15.31\00:15:17.51
I've been researching
this topic for some time,
00:15:17.55\00:15:20.65
and I'm sure there's a lot
of people, as in any church,
00:15:20.68\00:15:23.59
you know, it's a
mixture of different people
00:15:23.62\00:15:26.79
feeling different
ways, but you discovered
00:15:26.82\00:15:29.12
that there was a
pro-choice element,
00:15:29.16\00:15:31.49
and you wrestled with that.
00:15:31.53\00:15:32.96
I did, yes.
00:15:32.99\00:15:35.63
My last Sabbath
in Virginia Beach,
00:15:35.66\00:15:37.90
before I was about
to go back to Georgia
00:15:37.93\00:15:39.80
to study for the bar,
there was a visiting couple
00:15:39.83\00:15:42.50
who was at church,
and over Sabbath potluck,
00:15:42.54\00:15:45.17
I was just explaining my
dilemma really seeking out
00:15:45.21\00:15:48.81
counsel from various
people, and the wife of the
00:15:48.84\00:15:54.48
couple said, "You
don't not join, you join,
00:15:54.52\00:15:58.39
and you seek to change it."
00:15:58.42\00:16:02.76
That's good advice. Absolutely!
00:16:02.79\00:16:04.13
I think that's great advice.
00:16:04.16\00:16:05.49
And in September
of 2010, that year,
00:16:05.53\00:16:07.16
I became a member of
the Adventist Church,
00:16:07.20\00:16:09.70
and the next year, early
2011, the "Mafgia" began.
00:16:09.73\00:16:15.24
Okay, now tell us
more, "Mafgia." Yeah Mafgia.
00:16:15.27\00:16:19.41
Mafgia is a Hebrew word
and it means, "intercessor."
00:16:19.44\00:16:22.98
And it comes from
the verse, Isaiah 59:16.
00:16:23.01\00:16:26.82
Okay, I'm going to read
that verse, unless you want to
00:16:26.85\00:16:28.55
read it - unless you
have it. Oh, go ahead.
00:16:28.58\00:16:30.29
You can keep talking
about it and I'll find it.
00:16:30.32\00:16:31.65
Isaiah what - 59:16, 59:16 okay.
00:16:31.69\00:16:36.19
All right let's see... 59:16,
it's talking about God looking
00:16:36.22\00:16:41.80
down on the earth. He
saw that there was no man,
00:16:41.83\00:16:45.30
and wondered that
there was no intercessor.
00:16:45.33\00:16:48.70
Therefore, His own arm
brought salvation for Him
00:16:48.74\00:16:51.54
and His own righteousness,
it sustained Him. Yes
00:16:51.57\00:16:54.18
So that's your
motto verse. Yes, yes.
00:16:54.21\00:16:57.45
And so "Mafgia," that comes
from.. is it "gia?" "Maf-gee-a"
00:16:57.48\00:17:01.62
"Mafgia" and that's
from the word "intercessor"
00:17:01.65\00:17:03.49
right here in this text...
Intercessor right there. Okay
00:17:03.52\00:17:05.65
We are committed as an
organization to interceding
00:17:05.72\00:17:09.52
for the value, for
the sanctity of human life
00:17:09.56\00:17:11.93
from conception
to natural death.
00:17:11.96\00:17:13.73
From our very
beginning to natural death.
00:17:13.76\00:17:15.66
And we're also committed
to interceding as you've
00:17:15.70\00:17:18.07
heard in Dianne's
story, for the reconciliation
00:17:18.10\00:17:21.90
and redemption
for women and for men
00:17:21.94\00:17:24.74
who have experienced
the tragedy of an abortion.
00:17:24.77\00:17:27.58
It's very much a holistic view.
00:17:27.61\00:17:31.51
We don't just think
the unborn is valuable,
00:17:31.55\00:17:34.15
or just think the
woman in crisis is valuable,
00:17:34.18\00:17:37.25
we think life, human
life, all of humanity
00:17:37.29\00:17:40.99
bears the image of the
Lord, and are extremely valuable
00:17:41.02\00:17:44.39
as established by the Lord.
00:17:44.43\00:17:46.06
And so that is
truly who we are seeking
00:17:46.09\00:17:48.70
to reach and minister to.
00:17:48.73\00:17:50.07
And we'll get
into this more later.
00:17:50.10\00:17:52.73
We have 10 more programs to do,
00:17:52.77\00:17:55.50
and we're going to get
into one of the biggest issues
00:17:55.54\00:17:57.54
from what I've
observed, and just in the last
00:17:57.57\00:17:59.67
few months I've been studying
this and that is when is
00:17:59.71\00:18:01.81
a person a person?
00:18:01.84\00:18:04.28
There is conception to
birth, and there are some
00:18:04.31\00:18:08.22
that believe that as you're
developing, you're really not
00:18:08.25\00:18:11.69
fully a person yet until you
take a breath when you come out.
00:18:11.72\00:18:16.59
And there are certain
verses that are quoted to
00:18:16.62\00:18:20.13
support that and
we'll look at that.
00:18:20.16\00:18:21.56
We'll look at those
verses because this really...
00:18:21.60\00:18:23.57
I mean, this is a big issue. Yes
00:18:23.60\00:18:25.80
Was it really you...
Were you you only when you
00:18:25.83\00:18:29.50
popped out? Or were you you when
00:18:29.54\00:18:32.67
you were first conceived?
00:18:32.71\00:18:34.04
That's part of the
controversy that we'll have to
00:18:34.08\00:18:37.48
explore... Yes but go on...
00:18:37.51\00:18:40.05
Well what's been really
incredible is the impact.
00:18:40.08\00:18:43.85
Since Mafgia began, the
response has been profound,
00:18:43.89\00:18:48.99
and the themes that
we've encountered...
00:18:49.02\00:18:51.53
I encountered in the beginning
and then now that Dianne
00:18:51.56\00:18:53.63
has come onboard as
my partner in ministry.
00:18:53.66\00:18:56.16
The themes that
we've encountered together
00:18:56.20\00:18:57.70
have been tremendous.
00:18:57.73\00:19:00.67
The first would be
the frequency of abortion.
00:19:00.70\00:19:03.27
The number of
abortions that are happening;
00:19:03.30\00:19:06.11
women are experiencing;
00:19:06.14\00:19:07.91
statistically, we know
that's true, but literally
00:19:07.94\00:19:10.85
every single time, I would
say virtually every single time
00:19:10.88\00:19:13.62
I've spoken about this,
and all of the audiences
00:19:13.65\00:19:17.62
have been church audiences.
00:19:17.65\00:19:19.25
We haven't spoken in
secular environments,
00:19:19.29\00:19:21.96
or just secular audiences.
00:19:21.99\00:19:23.79
Woman, after woman, after woman,
after woman has had an abortion,
00:19:23.83\00:19:27.33
and we see it's
happening generationally
00:19:27.36\00:19:30.07
where a woman and
her mother or daughters
00:19:30.10\00:19:33.54
will have had an abortion.
00:19:33.57\00:19:35.27
It's happening within
family and extended family unit
00:19:35.30\00:19:38.27
where a woman and her
sister and cousin and aunt
00:19:38.31\00:19:41.38
will have also had an abortion.
00:19:41.41\00:19:43.38
The frequency of abortion,
the way that it's affecting
00:19:43.41\00:19:47.32
women is phenomenal.
00:19:47.35\00:19:49.18
Statistically, it's over
one-third of all women will have
00:19:49.22\00:19:57.26
experienced an abortion by
the time she reaches age 45,
00:19:57.29\00:20:00.13
and that's in the church,
00:20:00.16\00:20:01.50
and out of the
church, that's all churches.
00:20:01.53\00:20:03.13
It's not
specific to denomination.
00:20:03.16\00:20:04.73
And Dianne
mentioned the statistics,
00:20:04.77\00:20:06.30
she, based on her research,
00:20:06.33\00:20:07.84
and I'm
assuming yours, she said,
00:20:07.87\00:20:09.20
"Somewhere around 45
million abortions are occurring
00:20:09.24\00:20:13.58
worldwide."
00:20:13.61\00:20:14.94
She mentioned that
since 1973 to 2011,
00:20:14.98\00:20:18.05
it's approximately 53 million
and they were speculating
00:20:18.08\00:20:21.48
based on the
numbers that by today,
00:20:21.52\00:20:23.45
it's somewhere
around 57 million,
00:20:23.49\00:20:25.39
but that's just
in the United States.
00:20:25.42\00:20:27.19
And you look at
around the world and we're
00:20:27.22\00:20:30.96
I mean, we're dealing with a
topic that is just incredible,
00:20:30.99\00:20:35.43
and I have children
and that's another reason
00:20:35.46\00:20:38.60
why I wanted to be
a part of this series,
00:20:38.63\00:20:41.54
and wanted to learn about it,
00:20:41.57\00:20:42.90
it's because I love kids.
00:20:42.94\00:20:44.67
I just really... I
love Abby, I love Seth,
00:20:44.71\00:20:46.74
and there's so much
to this that I think
00:20:46.78\00:20:50.61
it's worth taking
it out of the closet,
00:20:50.65\00:20:54.48
and looking at it and
going deeper into the Bible
00:20:54.52\00:20:57.92
to say what does the
Bible say and listen to
00:20:57.95\00:21:00.06
stories like yours...
it's incredible. Right
00:21:00.09\00:21:02.92
The second thing
that we've seen is,
00:21:02.96\00:21:04.49
we've actually had
a lot of people really
00:21:04.53\00:21:06.76
wonder why isn't
it talked about more
00:21:06.80\00:21:09.56
when it's
affecting so many people,
00:21:09.60\00:21:11.50
why aren't resources
there; why is it something that
00:21:11.53\00:21:15.37
we're not dealing with?
00:21:15.40\00:21:16.84
And that there's been so
much gratitude expressing
00:21:16.87\00:21:21.64
"thank you, thank you, I'm
so glad someone - finally."
00:21:21.68\00:21:25.81
And that's been just
incredibly profound for us,
00:21:25.85\00:21:29.85
as a ministry team.
00:21:29.88\00:21:31.29
The third theme that
we've really seen is the
00:21:31.32\00:21:34.79
condemnation and shame
that people are carrying
00:21:34.82\00:21:38.96
10, 20, 30 years
later, when they haven't found
00:21:38.99\00:21:42.70
freedom and
forgiveness at the cross.
00:21:42.73\00:21:45.03
And, that is not the
way we were meant to live.
00:21:45.07\00:21:48.60
The Lord died to set us
free so that we could experience
00:21:48.64\00:21:53.17
freedom and life
and wholeness here.
00:21:53.21\00:21:56.08
And, we believe that He
died so that we could walk
00:21:56.11\00:22:01.18
in His redemptive grace.
00:22:01.22\00:22:02.98
The question is: "Who is
going to reach these people?"
00:22:03.02\00:22:06.89
Well, that's us, that's our job.
00:22:06.92\00:22:10.46
And if we're not speaking,
who is going to speak to them
00:22:10.49\00:22:15.40
because the world is ready
and waiting to speak to them.
00:22:15.43\00:22:19.93
And isn't it that it's
the mission of God's people
00:22:19.97\00:22:23.67
to try to help
people to know Jesus,
00:22:23.71\00:22:26.94
and to deal with the issues
that are deep in their hearts
00:22:26.98\00:22:29.91
where they are hurting and if
you have 57 million in America,
00:22:29.94\00:22:34.48
and 45 million
around the world every year,
00:22:34.52\00:22:38.52
there is just a huge, I don't
know exactly what the word is,
00:22:38.55\00:22:43.22
it's not an untapped
resource, it's a vast pool
00:22:43.26\00:22:49.76
of pain that needs
to be reached out to
00:22:49.80\00:22:54.00
with loving hands
and compassionate hearts.
00:22:54.04\00:22:57.54
And that's what you're doing,
that's what your life is about.
00:22:57.61\00:23:00.91
You have a life, you're
thankful that you're alive,
00:23:00.94\00:23:03.24
and you want to help
people as much as possible
00:23:03.28\00:23:05.58
and that's what we
want to do too, that's what
00:23:05.61\00:23:06.95
"White Horse Media" is all
about ...that's why you're here.
00:23:06.98\00:23:08.48
Well and you know, the
primary difference between
00:23:08.52\00:23:11.25
my story and Dianne's
story, is that people believe,
00:23:11.29\00:23:13.96
not just in my value, but
in the value of my mother.
00:23:13.99\00:23:16.83
They believed in her
value as a woman in crisis.
00:23:16.86\00:23:20.40
And, it was
through their intercession,
00:23:20.43\00:23:24.40
through their pleading
that my life was spared.
00:23:24.43\00:23:26.50
And that's what we
have the opportunity to do,
00:23:26.53\00:23:28.94
not just to intercede
for the life of the child,
00:23:28.97\00:23:31.54
not just to intercede
for the life of the woman,
00:23:31.57\00:23:33.68
but to intercede for both.
00:23:33.71\00:23:35.84
That's why we're seeking
or that's why we're called
00:23:35.88\00:23:40.35
to share what is true.
00:23:40.38\00:23:41.75
We're all equal at
the foot of the Cross,
00:23:41.78\00:23:43.92
every single one of
us, and we're called
00:23:43.95\00:23:46.05
to seek out truth
and share what is true
00:23:46.09\00:23:48.42
so that others can be set free.
00:23:48.46\00:23:50.96
I'm set free because
of the truth that the Lord
00:23:50.99\00:23:53.56
came to die and set me free,
that's what sets all of us free.
00:23:53.60\00:23:56.46
And, that's what we have
the opportunity to do through
00:23:56.50\00:24:00.47
this message - to point
people back to the cross.
00:24:01.47\00:24:03.61
So when you travel, when
you and Dianne get speaking
00:24:03.64\00:24:05.77
invitations,
which are increasing,
00:24:05.81\00:24:08.14
sounds like you're getting
more and more opportunities,
00:24:08.18\00:24:09.74
you're getting just a lot
of stories, aren't you? Yes
00:24:09.78\00:24:12.45
People are coming out,
it's almost like a dam is
00:24:12.48\00:24:15.55
being broken and
like in the days of Noah,
00:24:15.58\00:24:18.72
it says the windows of
heaven were opened and the water
00:24:18.75\00:24:22.06
came down... and in this sense,
00:24:22.09\00:24:23.99
it seems like there's a
crack and there's an opening
00:24:24.03\00:24:27.20
and the people are
coming to you saying...
00:24:27.23\00:24:32.13
"We appreciate that you
are willing to talk about
00:24:32.17\00:24:35.57
this taboo subject." Yes
00:24:35.60\00:24:38.41
Well and the stories that
we hear are heartbreaking.
00:24:38.44\00:24:41.91
I mean, they are
just devastating,
00:24:41.94\00:24:43.51
especially when you
consider that the pain
00:24:43.55\00:24:45.31
they're holding on
to is decades later...
00:24:45.35\00:24:48.12
Just like in Dianne's story.
00:24:48.15\00:24:49.65
That's not just
unique to her story,
00:24:49.68\00:24:52.39
it's really quite
typical when an abortion happens
00:24:52.42\00:24:55.29
at a very young age and
yet freedom and forgiveness
00:24:55.32\00:24:57.89
isn't found until decades later.
00:24:57.93\00:25:00.03
That's not the way we
were meant to live on earth.
00:25:00.06\00:25:02.86
And why do you think
there has been such a silence
00:25:02.90\00:25:08.87
on this topic, as
far as ministry goes.
00:25:08.90\00:25:13.01
Why do you think that is?
00:25:13.04\00:25:15.11
Well, some people,
perhaps they don't know how to
00:25:15.14\00:25:17.55
approach the issue;
maybe some people are
00:25:17.58\00:25:19.61
truly afraid of offending a
woman who is in that situation.
00:25:19.65\00:25:23.95
Maybe some people
really aren't sure how
00:25:23.99\00:25:25.92
they would handle the situation
if they were confronted with it.
00:25:25.95\00:25:28.22
I think there are quite a few
motivations and undercurrents
00:25:28.26\00:25:31.79
that are at play there.
00:25:31.83\00:25:33.16
What I do know - is
that the Lord has told us
00:25:33.19\00:25:36.40
to lift up our voice for women,
00:25:36.43\00:25:39.40
and to encourage everyone
to embrace this message,
00:25:39.43\00:25:45.27
women in crisis, men in crisis,
parents, pastors, doctors,
00:25:45.31\00:25:49.11
that we would all be honest
before the Lord about our value,
00:25:49.14\00:25:53.08
and about our
response as believers
00:25:53.11\00:25:56.05
in a situation like this.
00:25:56.08\00:25:57.42
And so you're hoping and
praying that this will continue
00:25:57.45\00:25:59.55
to just open up more and
more and you'll be able to reach
00:25:59.59\00:26:03.02
out to as many
people as possible...
00:26:03.06\00:26:04.93
That's what your book is about,
00:26:04.96\00:26:06.76
that's what your
ministry is about,
00:26:06.80\00:26:08.26
and I'm just... I'm in
awe; I had no real interest in
00:26:08.30\00:26:13.37
getting into this
topic at first when I first
00:26:13.40\00:26:15.80
heard about it, but
then as time went on,
00:26:15.84\00:26:17.47
God began to work on
me and just impressed me
00:26:17.51\00:26:20.88
that this is something
that is really, really important
00:26:20.91\00:26:24.15
to Him and to people.
00:26:24.18\00:26:25.91
It shouldn't just
be a side message.
00:26:25.95\00:26:29.62
So I think I'll line
this up with the verse that is
00:26:29.65\00:26:34.26
the motto of "Mafgia Ministry"
which is in Isaiah 59:15-16
00:26:34.29\00:26:41.96
It says, "The Lord saw
it, and it displeased Him
00:26:42.00\00:26:46.53
that there was no justice.
00:26:46.57\00:26:48.80
He saw that there
was no man and wondered
00:26:48.84\00:26:53.17
that there was no intercessor;
therefore, His own arm
00:26:53.21\00:26:56.58
brought salvation for
Him and His own righteousness
00:26:56.61\00:26:59.61
it sustained Him."
00:26:59.65\00:27:01.35
We believe that the time
has come for God's arm to
00:27:01.38\00:27:05.22
reach out into the
world on this issue
00:27:05.25\00:27:07.66
to help people on this issue.
00:27:07.69\00:27:10.13
And, we invite you to
join us as intercessors
00:27:10.16\00:27:12.79
for the church, for people
in the world, for everybody
00:27:12.83\00:27:15.76
that God will reveal
His love in this crisis.
00:27:15.80\00:27:19.20
Dianne Wagner
and Antionette Duck
00:27:19.90\00:27:21.74
share a powerful life-changing
information in this
00:27:21.77\00:27:24.31
13-part series, "The
Abortion Controversy"
00:27:24.34\00:27:27.81
To order this 6-1/2
hour DVD set for only $34.95,
00:27:27.84\00:27:32.41
call: 1-800-782-4253
00:27:32.45\00:27:39.79
Or, you can
write to the following:
00:27:39.82\00:27:42.32
Or order online:
www.whitehorsemedia.com
00:27:45.86\00:27:50.17
If you have been
blessed by today's program,
00:27:51.80\00:27:54.50
and would like to
help White Horse Media
00:27:54.54\00:27:56.14
with your financial
support, you can call our
00:27:56.17\00:27:58.67
toll free number
listed on the screen,
00:27:58.71\00:28:00.41
or donate online
at whitehorsemedia.com
00:28:00.44\00:28:03.41
We solicit your
prayers for our ministry
00:28:03.45\00:28:06.31
and we thank you for
any gift large or small
00:28:06.35\00:28:09.72
to help us reach
people with the gospel.
00:28:09.75\00:28:13.66