Our world is
full of controversy.
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There is an
environmental controversy,
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an economic controversy,
terrorism controversy,
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healthcare controversy...
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But one of the biggest is
a controversy that a lot of
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people don't
think about, but it is
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an abortion controversy.
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It's very real and that's
our topic in less than a minute,
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so stay put.
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Welcome to Part 2 of
a 13-part series called:
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"The Abortion Controversy"
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We are dealing with a
topic that some people
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don't want to talk about,
but we need to talk about it
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as it's as important as it gets.
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My guest is Dianne Wagoner.
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She is the mother of
four; she has had two abortions.
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She has written a little
book, a powerful book called...
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"Redeemed A Gateway of Hope"
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"My journey toward hope
and healing from abortion"
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And we're here to
continue to learn from her
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as she breaks the
silence, and as she goes into
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the trauma of abortion
for post aborted women.
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Dianne, it's such a blessing
to have you here. Thank you!
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I am so happy that
you are opening your lips
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and sharing your heart
and telling people about this,
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and I'm sure there's going
to be a lot of women and men
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that are going to just
be so moved and so grateful
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that you have the courage
to come out and say the things
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that you're saying. Thank you
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Now just to
quickly re-cap in Part 1,
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you told your story about
how you grew up in church.
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When you were 25, you
were engaged and you and your
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fiancee made one
mistake in the intimate arena
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and you found out
that you were pregnant.
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And it put your
life in a tailspin,
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and I'm not going to
go re-cap all of that,
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but you had one
abortion, you got married,
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you went forward
with your wedding day,
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and then you had
another abortion,
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and it just caused so much pain
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that we just really
don't understand it.
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But you do, and so you're
telling us the story of the
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step-by-step process of
how you finally found healing
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and forgiveness through the
grace and the love of Jesus.
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Right... So just keep on
going with where you stopped.
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Okay, well were I ended
was, I had gotten to the point
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where I confessed
the sin of abortion.
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I was desperate, the
Lord is why I'm here today.
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Suicide is not uncommon
amongst post abortive women
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who are traumatized by that.
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So I give God the glory
for that, but with that said,
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I did come to the
point where I was on my knees
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and I confessed to the
Lord the sin of abortion.
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But often sin has consequence,
and the consequences
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need to be dealt with.
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And because there has
been such a silence on the
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subject of abortion,
it's easy to just survive
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with those
consequences not realizing that
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the Lord is very
willing and desperate,
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wants to give you all of
it, wants to heal you fully,
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but unless someone
can lead you to that,
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you know, you flounder.
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And it's easy to doubt,
even, when you're so miserable
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that the Lord even forgave you.
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In fact, I have had
women come to me and say,
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"Why am I so miserable,
if I've been forgiven?"
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And the devil will
just jump in right there,
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And cause that
woman to doubt God.
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He's ruthless...
He's the destroyer.
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I heard somebody say,
"If the devil reminds you
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of your past, then
remind him of his future."
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Oh, that's good, I like that!
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You don't want
to talk to the devil
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but he's going to
get what's coming to him,
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and he harasses us, doesn't
he? He just doesn't give up!
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He is the accuser of
the brethren. Definitely
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Well you know, the
abortion, at the time,
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was supposed to be a
solution to a crisis.
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But instead, it created
a larger than life crisis
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for me and for many
other women - it has done that.
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And, what's amazing
is, the abortion advocates,
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you know, they're saying
that the post-abortive woman
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should be feeling fine about
her decision because she was
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exercising her RIGHT; you
know it is her body, isn't it?
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And, as a Christian, we
know better, don't we? Yes
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In fact, you had a great
text I wanted you to share that.
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And there's a verse that
just came right into my head
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from 1 Corinthians 6:19,
the Bible says... Paul says,
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"Do you not know that
you're body is the temple of the
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Holy Spirit who is in
you, who you have from God;
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and you are not your own.
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You were bought at a
price; therefore, glorify God
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in your body and in
your spirit which are God's."
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That's right.
What a powerful text!
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I LOVE that text!
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People say it's my body...
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No... The Bible says,
Your body is God's body.
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And when they say,
"Well, you know, I can do with
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my body what I want,
and when we think about the
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baby that's in there, this
verse says that "we were bought
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with a price," which is
the price of the blood of
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Jesus Christ and that
applies not only to the mommy,
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but to the baby,
and to the father,
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and to all of
us. I believe that.
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Jesus loves us more
than we'll ever know,
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and it must hurt Him more
than we can ever comprehend
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to look at this nightmare.
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It is, I'm
sure... and what's so sad
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are so many people are
being fed the message that
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like I said, you
should be feeling fine,
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and if you're not,
there's something wrong with you
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before you had the abortion.
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If you're feeling
unstable, it's because you were
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unstable prior to the abortion.
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In fact, there are
abortion advocates who
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have gone so far to say
that it's the woman's religion
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or religiosity that
causes her to have a problem.
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I was really amazed
about that one because history
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tells us, back in the
late 1800s, thousands of women
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were being incarcerated
because of hysteria.
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Now the "French Enlightenment"
at that time, the people,
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they thought the
problem was with religion;
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again they blamed this problem
on religion and religiosity.
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But what it was, the
evidence was there clearly that
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this hysteria was due
from a traumatic event
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in that person's
life, woman's life.
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Consistently, these women had
had sexual assaults against them
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as children, but society
and politics did not want to
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investigate that and by
not wanting to go there,
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they didn't validate the
trauma, and the victim was
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completely discredited.
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They lost their voice,
they were not given a voice.
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And sad... They
were just shut up.
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They were shut up and
what's really sad about that...
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Thousands of women today
are shut up in their own asylum
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because of the
trauma of an abortion.
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It's like a prison, isn't it?
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It is, it is and once again...
It's like going to jail.
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It's a very dark prison. Wow...
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And, once again, we don't have
the social and political support
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But, when I hear
that, right off I think,
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"Well perfect, a place for
the church to go right into,"
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you know. Enter
the church! Exactly!
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That's God's plan. The
Lord's ministers, right?
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Well... but that's not the case.
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So I want to give you some
statistics here that I followed.
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On the subject of
abortion, prior to the 1960s,
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the research and the evidence
was almost without exception
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in opposition to abortion.
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The reason being is
because of the traumatic nature
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and the severe psychological
threat that it was on women.
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Now that was
leading up until the 60s.
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Something else that was
interesting that was going on
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about the same
time in the late 1950s,
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the population control advocates
started getting concerned.
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Too many
people... Too many people,
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and so they put their sights
on birth control and abortion.
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And large
population control donors like
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"The Rockefeller Foundation"
started pouring money
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into research with the intent
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to prove the benign
nature of abortion. Oh my!
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Somebody needs to write a book
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about that or they
probably already have.
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You'll have to watch the
resources. Okay... series
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Well by the late 1960s, The
American Medical Association,
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The American
Psychiatric Association,
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and The American Psychological
Association, all three,
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reversed their position
in opposition to abortion
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to now saying
that abortion was safe.
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Well, money talks, doesn't it?
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It sure looks that
way, it sure looks that way.
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So and of course we
know that in 1973 was the
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Roe v. Wade date which
we'll go into more later,
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but this is when the
abortion became legal.
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And, it wasn't that
long by the late 1970s,
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just 7 years later,
women started realizing
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they were having
effects by that decision.
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Women who had been
hurt maybe physically
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or emotionally, psychologically,
started realizing this,
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and they started banding
together into support groups.
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And what kind of
effects? What were the effects?
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Grief, hating myself, anger,
depressions, sleeplessness;
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you know, all these things...
Promiscuity, hopelessness,
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just running off the
deep end, alcoholism...
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what that part of
that too? A lot of that.
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But these women were
starting to band together
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and by coming together
and sharing their stories,
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they were
validating their trauma.
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They were realizing that,
"Yes, indeed, this abortion
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was a traumatic event."
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And it was having negative
consequences on their lives.
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And the first group was called,
"WEBA"... it was an acronym
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for" Women
Exploited by Abortion."
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And that wasn't
just women that were...
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It wasn't just because
they grew up in church.
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No, no... And so
they were, you know,
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you know what I
mean, it was not just a...
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No, this was out there,
it wasn't a church thing.
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They are real consequences.
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Absolutely that you can't deny,
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whether you've gone to
church all your life or not,
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you know, when you can't
sleep and you're miserable,
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and you hate yourself and
you grieve and you're crying
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uncontrollably and you
don't understand why...
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You know... you know
something is going on.
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Well, it was really interesting
because this organization "WEBA"
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in one year, had chapters
in every one of the states.
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Each state had a
chapter, it exploded.
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That, in itself, says something.
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And in fact, a lot of
the post-abortion ministries
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we have today stem from
that original group of women
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within the WEBA organization
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which I thought
was pretty fascinating.
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But now during this
time, there was a small group
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of psychologists that were
treating women here and there,
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and they started recognizing
that the women that they
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were seeing that had a history
of abortion, or starting to
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show clusters of symptoms that
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were close to the
post-traumatic stress disorder.
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For those that came out
of the war... Yeah, right!
00:12:24.17\00:12:26.47
After the Vietnam war
when they established that
00:12:26.51\00:12:29.24
post-traumatic stress disorder.
00:12:29.28\00:12:30.71
And, Vincent Rue was
the first one who actually
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named "post-abortion syndrome"
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because as a variant of the
post-traumatic stress disorder..
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because there were so many
women showing these symptoms
00:12:40.62\00:12:46.09
of the trauma.
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Well one other thing
that did happen at that time,
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"The Elliot
Institute" was established,
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and The Elliot Institute
has done a lot of research
00:12:53.97\00:12:57.64
into post-abortion trauma.
00:12:57.67\00:13:00.21
So there was a movement in the
end of 70s into the middle 80s
00:13:00.28\00:13:04.31
there was this movement.
00:13:04.35\00:13:05.75
Well of course, you know,
The American Medical Association
00:13:05.78\00:13:09.12
wanted to call it a myth,
00:13:09.15\00:13:10.69
and The American Psychiatric
Organization - they wanted to
00:13:10.72\00:13:14.69
squelch any evidence of
the post-abortion syndrome.
00:13:14.72\00:13:18.69
I imagine
Rockefeller wasn't happy.
00:13:18.73\00:13:20.83
Probably not!
00:13:20.90\00:13:23.03
So even though they
were opposed to this,
00:13:23.06\00:13:26.53
you couldn't deny
this accumulation of
00:13:26.57\00:13:30.41
evidence that was starting
to appear in all these women.
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This pool of pain was coming
up - bubbling up to the surface.
00:13:32.54\00:13:36.48
Exactly - the grief, the
self-hatred, the hopelessness,
00:13:36.51\00:13:42.35
helplessness,
anger; like I said,
00:13:42.38\00:13:45.55
uncontrollable
crying... And that leads people
00:13:45.59\00:13:47.16
to plunge deeper, like I
said, promiscuity, alcoholism.
00:13:47.22\00:13:49.92
Once you have no hope,
you just take the plunge.
00:13:49.99\00:13:53.86
Yeah, it's self-degrading
behavior like the cutting,
00:13:53.90\00:13:57.00
it's drug abuse, and
it affects relationships,
00:13:57.03\00:14:02.07
marital relationships,
family... you know, your ability
00:14:02.10\00:14:06.07
to bond with your children
that you may have later.
00:14:06.11\00:14:11.48
It really is just catastrophic,
the effect that this has...
00:14:11.51\00:14:15.85
and you can see why
these people would run to
00:14:15.88\00:14:20.96
promiscuity, alcohol or drug
abuse if they're that desperate,
00:14:20.99\00:14:25.39
or suicidal
tendencies, that's right,
00:14:25.43\00:14:27.73
that's exactly one of them.
00:14:27.76\00:14:29.33
And, it was interesting to
me because it is a moral issue
00:14:29.36\00:14:33.74
whether we realize it...
00:14:33.80\00:14:36.67
We may not call it
religious or a religion,
00:14:37.84\00:14:40.98
but there's a moral
seed in each one of us...
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It's a conscience
issue... YES because we're made
00:14:44.35\00:14:48.32
in the image of God. Exactly!
00:14:48.35\00:14:50.35
And when we go
against what's right,
00:14:50.39\00:14:52.15
we suffer for
that. That's right!
00:14:52.19\00:14:53.92
There's a verse
that we've talked about
00:14:53.96\00:14:55.46
a little bit and I
just want to read this.
00:14:55.49\00:14:56.99
I think it fits... right
here, it's in James 1:14,16
00:14:57.03\00:15:00.93
It says, "Each one is
tempted when he is drawn away
00:15:00.96\00:15:04.73
by his own desires and enticed."
00:15:04.77\00:15:07.24
So I think that applies to
sexual sin and many others,
00:15:07.27\00:15:09.90
but, you know,
people are tempted,
00:15:09.94\00:15:11.51
their desires, they're enticed.
00:15:11.54\00:15:12.94
And then it says, "Then
when desire has conceived,
00:15:12.97\00:15:15.91
... and it's interesting the
word "conceived" is used here,
00:15:15.94\00:15:18.68
... then it gives birth to sin,
and sin when it is full-grown,
00:15:18.71\00:15:23.59
brings forth death.
00:15:23.62\00:15:25.35
Do not be deceived,
my beloved brethren."
00:15:25.39\00:15:28.02
So here's a sequence,
a train of consequences
00:15:28.06\00:15:32.66
from the desire and
temptation, and then the sin,
00:15:32.69\00:15:37.13
and then it
growing, and then eventually,
00:15:37.17\00:15:39.27
bringing forth death.
00:15:39.30\00:15:40.90
There's just no way
around it, when we don't follow
00:15:40.94\00:15:44.17
God's original plan,
revealed in the Garden of Eden
00:15:44.21\00:15:47.68
and in Scripture, we
will suffer for that...
00:15:47.71\00:15:50.95
And you're just giving us the
stats that those who have had
00:15:50.98\00:15:54.92
abortions, there is
trauma. A lot of trauma.
00:15:54.95\00:15:59.19
The LA Times poll that I
found, said 74% of women who
00:15:59.22\00:16:04.73
have had abortions believe
that it was morally wrong.
00:16:04.76\00:16:07.96
And another study shows
that 70% of women who have had
00:16:07.96\00:16:12.17
abortions believe that
they were killing a human being,
00:16:12.20\00:16:15.60
and that it was
morally wrong. That's huge!
00:16:15.64\00:16:18.67
And that was the LA Times?
00:16:18.71\00:16:20.18
The first one was, the 74%.
00:16:20.21\00:16:22.98
You know, that just shows
to you, we've got a crisis
00:16:23.01\00:16:26.82
going on and when I think
of that, like I said earlier,
00:16:26.85\00:16:30.99
what better
place than the church?
00:16:31.02\00:16:32.85
You know, here we have
the healing balm of Gilead
00:16:32.89\00:16:38.49
right in our hands and I'm
afraid we're not even using it.
00:16:38.53\00:16:42.63
In fact, I had
written a note to myself,
00:16:42.66\00:16:44.70
and I want to make
sure I get it right...
00:16:44.73\00:16:46.37
if we have time,
are we doing all right?
00:16:46.40\00:16:48.54
Yes, we're
doing okay in minutes.
00:16:48.57\00:16:50.17
I don't think we can remain
silent on this issue any longer.
00:16:50.21\00:16:53.94
I think we are
breaking the silence on this,
00:16:53.98\00:16:56.95
and I think there are
people that are hurting,
00:16:57.01\00:16:59.15
and they need to hear this.
00:16:59.18\00:17:02.28
You know, we're
holding the balm of Gilead,
00:17:02.32\00:17:06.19
and we're not even using it.
00:17:06.22\00:17:09.22
And I'm afraid that...
how can we make the nations
00:17:09.26\00:17:12.59
around us... I have to
read it because I love this
00:17:12.63\00:17:14.96
and even if I
have to read it. Sure
00:17:15.00\00:17:17.20
"How can we make the nations
around us jealous for our God
00:17:17.27\00:17:20.34
if we do not put
our trust in Him,
00:17:20.37\00:17:22.77
and let Him show us
what He can do for us.
00:17:22.80\00:17:25.54
And by showing us
what He can do for us,
00:17:25.57\00:17:27.88
the nations around
us will see and watch.
00:17:27.91\00:17:31.75
We cannot
encourage others to trust God
00:17:31.78\00:17:34.78
if we don't ourselves, can we?"
00:17:34.82\00:17:37.09
You know I've always
been told to trust God
00:17:37.12\00:17:39.75
though the heavens
fall and I like that...
00:17:39.79\00:17:42.82
trust God though
the heavens fall.
00:17:42.86\00:17:44.79
Are we willing to say,
"Trust God with this pregnancy?"
00:17:44.83\00:17:48.20
You know?
00:17:48.23\00:17:49.56
A lot of times, it takes
a degree of responsibility
00:17:49.60\00:17:55.70
when you want to
encourage someone not
00:17:55.74\00:17:57.81
to have an abortion.
00:17:57.84\00:17:59.47
It's easy to just say, "Oh,
I'll pray you'll have clothes,
00:17:59.51\00:18:02.84
I see you're naked, or
I'll pray you have food
00:18:02.88\00:18:05.08
because I see you're hungry.
00:18:05.11\00:18:06.75
You know, versus
going out and taking clothes
00:18:06.78\00:18:10.12
or taking food.
00:18:10.15\00:18:11.49
Well just like a young
woman who is in a very scary
00:18:11.52\00:18:14.32
bad pregnancy...
You know we can say,
00:18:14.36\00:18:16.76
"Oh don't abort that
baby, that would be killing...
00:18:16.79\00:18:18.99
I'll be praying for you."
00:18:19.03\00:18:20.63
Versus... "Honey, do
you have a place to go,
00:18:20.66\00:18:24.40
are you seen - do you
have medical attention?"
00:18:24.43\00:18:28.20
You know, really
taking that person...
00:18:28.24\00:18:30.41
that's when we're the
instrument of the Lord.
00:18:30.44\00:18:32.24
And that's where the
rubber meets the road.
00:18:32.27\00:18:34.18
That's where like James
says, "Don't just love in
00:18:34.21\00:18:37.28
word and tongue,
but in deed and truth."
00:18:37.35\00:18:40.45
And that's what the
church is called to do,
00:18:40.52\00:18:41.85
and may God help us to really
00:18:41.88\00:18:43.49
reach out to
those... To see that!
00:18:43.52\00:18:45.05
Right and as we know,
I mean you mentioned that
00:18:45.09\00:18:48.02
the majority of abortions
occur in the age range of 18-24.
00:18:48.06\00:18:53.93
You have, young girls and
young boys, teenagers that are
00:18:54.00\00:18:57.27
out there experimenting
and they are not ready
00:18:57.33\00:18:59.30
for a family; they are
not ready to get married,
00:18:59.33\00:19:02.80
and they find themselves
pregnant - the women do.
00:19:02.84\00:19:05.11
And sometimes they're from
mixed up homes... that's right.
00:19:05.14\00:19:08.51
And it's the
convenient thing to do just to
00:19:08.54\00:19:12.88
"terminate the pregnancy."
00:19:12.91\00:19:15.82
But we really need to somehow
educate people to understand
00:19:15.85\00:19:19.42
Absolutely... that
it's more than just a thing
00:19:19.45\00:19:22.29
inside the body and we'll
talk more about that later.
00:19:22.32\00:19:25.29
Right, you'll find out I'm a
very big advocate for education.
00:19:25.33\00:19:28.76
Education and instruction,
and love and teaching,
00:19:28.80\00:19:31.30
and we really
can't solve this problem,
00:19:31.33\00:19:34.40
as far as the world
goes, but we can hope to
00:19:34.44\00:19:37.11
make a difference and
that's where, like you said,
00:19:37.14\00:19:39.21
the church comes in to
educate, to come alongside
00:19:39.24\00:19:42.08
if people have made a
mistake; God still loves them,
00:19:42.11\00:19:44.58
and let's not make a
second mistake and take the life
00:19:44.61\00:19:47.85
of an innocent
child, and even if adoption
00:19:47.88\00:19:50.79
is really an
option or the only option,
00:19:50.82\00:19:54.26
or at least the best
option, let's find an option,
00:19:54.29\00:19:58.83
and let's have the
church come close to people
00:19:58.86\00:20:02.06
and pray for them and
help them to work through this.
00:20:02.10\00:20:05.87
And by doing that, you are
preserving that young woman's
00:20:05.90\00:20:09.50
dignity... And
you're protecting her
00:20:09.54\00:20:12.04
from a lot of pain. That's right
00:20:12.07\00:20:14.08
Like you said, all these
women and you went through. Wow
00:20:14.14\00:20:17.45
That's right, that's right!
00:20:17.51\00:20:19.38
I have one
more... if I can read it.
00:20:19.41\00:20:21.08
Sure, we still have time. Okay
00:20:21.12\00:20:22.48
"If God abhors
one sin above another
00:20:22.52\00:20:25.42
of which His people are
guilty, it is doing nothing
00:20:25.45\00:20:29.32
in case of an emergency.
00:20:29.36\00:20:31.63
Indifference and
neutrality in a religious crisis
00:20:31.66\00:20:35.26
is regarded of God
as a grievous crime,
00:20:35.30\00:20:38.53
and equal to the very worst
type of hostility against God."
00:20:38.57\00:20:43.54
That really hit me
when I heard that because
00:20:43.57\00:20:46.61
it's so easy to
condemn someone who has taken
00:20:46.64\00:20:50.08
the life of an innocent
child, but what about the
00:20:50.11\00:20:54.68
life of an
innocent unborn, you know.
00:20:54.72\00:20:57.92
Are we going to remain neutral?
00:20:57.95\00:21:00.26
Are we going to remain silent?
00:21:00.29\00:21:02.86
And if we value that child and
we value that child's mother,
00:21:02.89\00:21:06.90
it only seems right that
we would want to step in.
00:21:06.93\00:21:09.53
Yes, and one of the issues we'll
get into later in the series is
00:21:09.56\00:21:13.44
I think a lot of rationalizing
is going on... That's true
00:21:13.50\00:21:18.44
and the rationalization has
to do with "it's really not a
00:21:18.47\00:21:22.38
child; it's really not a
full, it's not a person yet
00:21:22.41\00:21:27.08
because it's just in this
early developmental stage"
00:21:27.12\00:21:30.35
and there are certain scriptures
that are sometimes used
00:21:30.39\00:21:33.19
to support that idea and we'll
look at those verses later,
00:21:33.22\00:21:36.36
but when you really
take a close look biblically
00:21:36.39\00:21:39.73
and scientifically,
which we will do, it's a little
00:21:39.76\00:21:43.93
... it's a
little person in there.
00:21:44.00\00:21:46.03
It's just not a
fully developed person,
00:21:46.07\00:21:49.24
but it's a little person,
and as you're sharing the
00:21:49.27\00:21:52.71
stats show that women, a
large percentage of women
00:21:52.74\00:21:56.68
who have had abortions,
they know that they've done
00:21:56.71\00:22:00.65
something horrific. That's right
00:22:00.72\00:22:02.65
And if it wasn't wrong,
then why would all these
00:22:02.68\00:22:06.89
women be having such
terrible consequences?
00:22:06.96\00:22:10.43
Why the trauma?
Yeah, why the trauma?
00:22:10.46\00:22:12.46
That's right, and I think
that's why it's so important
00:22:12.49\00:22:15.26
to educate ourselves
about the post-abortion trauma
00:22:15.30\00:22:19.13
because as we understand
even the behavior of a friend
00:22:19.17\00:22:22.97
who may have had...
00:22:23.00\00:22:24.57
You know, as we appreciate
and understand the trauma
00:22:24.61\00:22:27.58
of abortion, we'll
know how to minister to
00:22:27.61\00:22:32.21
a post-abortive woman or man.
00:22:32.25\00:22:34.28
We'll understand the behavior.
00:22:34.32\00:22:36.48
I know I've seen this with
men who have married a woman
00:22:36.52\00:22:40.02
who has had an
abortion in their past.
00:22:40.06\00:22:41.96
You know, I'll mention
one individual that I know...
00:22:41.99\00:22:48.56
He read my story and
he wrote me a letter.
00:22:48.60\00:22:52.00
He read it in your book...
00:22:52.03\00:22:53.37
I wrote it in
there, and he thanked me.
00:22:53.40\00:22:56.34
He goes, "You know, I
understand my wife better now,
00:22:56.37\00:22:59.94
and her behavior."
00:23:00.08\00:23:02.41
Because he could see the
link you know, between the
00:23:02.44\00:23:06.48
self-hatred.
00:23:06.51\00:23:07.85
I remember sitting in church...
00:23:07.88\00:23:09.65
There were times
when I would just CRY
00:23:09.68\00:23:12.32
and I would think...
"Oh, my pastor is going
00:23:12.35\00:23:14.49
think I've lost my mind."
00:23:14.52\00:23:16.29
But it was that
uncontrollable crying...
00:23:16.32\00:23:18.73
It was just on the
list... when I read the list
00:23:18.76\00:23:21.96
of the things women suffer
with, it was like "that's me."
00:23:22.00\00:23:25.67
And then I read down further
and I was... "that is me,
00:23:25.70\00:23:28.27
I've suffered with that."
00:23:28.30\00:23:29.64
And then when I read
the stories of other women
00:23:29.67\00:23:31.61
and their experiences
after their abortion,
00:23:31.64\00:23:35.54
and different things
that women have suffered from,
00:23:35.58\00:23:40.98
it's amazing, but I can
remember sitting in church
00:23:41.02\00:23:44.25
thinking, "I am crying and
I don't know why I'm crying,
00:23:44.29\00:23:47.86
I'm just out of control."
00:23:47.89\00:23:49.72
And it was all
that... all that garbage
00:23:49.76\00:23:52.49
and all that
trauma. And that was before
00:23:52.53\00:23:54.03
you met the lady that you
talked about the last time. Oh!
00:23:54.10\00:23:56.06
That was before the healing.
Just before the healing, right.
00:23:56.10\00:23:59.23
Yes, I was just a MESS!
00:23:59.27\00:24:00.74
Even the sermons you
were hearing, they weren't
00:24:00.77\00:24:02.84
they weren't
really reaching you. No...
00:24:02.87\00:24:05.41
I guess, because it
wasn't going deep enough or
00:24:05.44\00:24:07.91
it wasn't
dealing with your issue.
00:24:07.94\00:24:09.28
Right, I wouldn't want to
say that the sermons were bad,
00:24:09.31\00:24:12.95
you know, not at all.
00:24:12.98\00:24:14.32
It's just that I had removed
myself so much, in that area
00:24:14.35\00:24:20.76
from people, that it
just wasn't talked about,
00:24:20.79\00:24:24.69
it wasn't
addressed, it was stuffed
00:24:24.76\00:24:26.33
and it just wasn't a
part... You were in a daze.
00:24:26.36\00:24:28.90
So I guess you were
numb and you were crying
00:24:28.93\00:24:31.63
uncontrollably and you
were just... like you said,
00:24:31.67\00:24:35.10
you were a mess. Yeah, I was.
00:24:35.14\00:24:36.87
And so I appreciate the
opportunity to address the
00:24:36.91\00:24:40.14
abortion trauma because
we cannot depend on society,
00:24:40.18\00:24:44.48
and we cannot depend
on politics or government,
00:24:44.51\00:24:47.68
but we should be able
to depend on the church,
00:24:47.72\00:24:50.95
you know, to be there.
00:24:50.99\00:24:52.39
Right, and the church
shouldn't be influenced
00:24:52.42\00:24:55.06
by Rockefeller
money to develop research
00:24:55.09\00:25:01.13
that goes away from
the facts. That's right
00:25:01.16\00:25:04.07
The facts of Scripture and
the facts of what really happens
00:25:04.10\00:25:07.64
when women make that choice.
That's right, that's right
00:25:07.67\00:25:11.71
So I would encourage women,
if they're just starting this
00:25:11.74\00:25:14.94
series, to please watch it
through, watch it to the end,
00:25:14.98\00:25:18.45
and men too, of course.
00:25:18.48\00:25:20.32
Anybody that would have
any kind of concern or burden.
00:25:20.35\00:25:23.99
Right, we have a
program coming on the men issue.
00:25:24.02\00:25:26.32
We have a program coming on,
"is the fetus a person" issue.
00:25:26.35\00:25:29.92
We have one on the biblical
evidence, the scientific
00:25:29.96\00:25:32.79
evidence; we have a
historical perspective,
00:25:32.83\00:25:36.63
and then we're going to
go deeper into the healing,
00:25:36.67\00:25:39.67
not only what you experienced
when that gentle woman
00:25:39.70\00:25:46.01
gave you the counsel, that
she gave you, as you described
00:25:46.04\00:25:48.44
in the last program, but
also the retreat that you
00:25:48.48\00:25:51.08
went to and the
deeper healing that occurred,
00:25:51.11\00:25:53.78
and there's just a
lot involved in this.
00:25:53.82\00:25:55.82
Yeah, I'm very excited,
I'm glad people are watching
00:25:55.85\00:25:58.92
and I want to encourage
them to continue to watch.
00:25:58.95\00:26:01.72
Well, thank you so
much, and I'm going to finish
00:26:01.76\00:26:04.76
what the text that I believe
is one of the motto verses
00:26:04.79\00:26:07.50
for "Mafgia,"
did I say that right?
00:26:07.56\00:26:10.17
"Mafgia," that's your
ministry, along with Antoinette,
00:26:10.20\00:26:13.54
and she's coming soon.
00:26:13.57\00:26:15.64
And that is in Hosea
2:14, 15, God said that He will
00:26:15.67\00:26:23.04
speak comfort to His people.
00:26:23.08\00:26:26.38
And then verse 15
says, "I will give her,
00:26:26.41\00:26:29.28
her vineyards from
there and the Valley of Achor
00:26:29.32\00:26:33.36
as a door of hope."
00:26:33.39\00:26:34.99
And Achor can also
be translated "trouble."
00:26:35.02\00:26:38.23
The Valley of Trouble.
00:26:38.26\00:26:39.69
God will turn the
Valley of Trouble into a door
00:26:39.73\00:26:43.67
of hope and she
shall sing there."
00:26:43.73\00:26:47.60
And that shows that
God can take trouble.
00:26:47.64\00:26:49.87
He can take trauma,
He can take disaster,
00:26:49.90\00:26:52.71
and He can turn it around,
and He can bring good out of it.
00:26:52.74\00:26:56.34
He is an amazing
God, He is a powerful God,
00:26:56.38\00:26:59.08
He's a loving God,
He's a healing God,
00:26:59.11\00:27:01.38
and, again, there's no trauma
that you can ever go through
00:27:01.42\00:27:05.09
that God can't turn it
around, heal you, and give you
00:27:05.12\00:27:08.69
a testimony so that you can
sing... you can sing forever
00:27:08.72\00:27:12.79
because of the love and the
mercy and the goodness of Jesus.
00:27:12.83\00:27:17.27
And that is the Jesus
that we want you to know
00:27:17.30\00:27:21.07
as a result of
watching all of these programs
00:27:21.10\00:27:24.04
on the Abortion Controversy.
00:27:24.11\00:27:26.04
May God help us all.
00:27:26.07\00:27:28.41