Do you know someone
who has had an abortion?
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Or perhaps that someone is you.
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Do you know someone who
has suffered unimaginable
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pain and guilt
because of abortion?
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If so, there is
good news right here,
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there is hope and
healing for you - so don't away.
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Welcome to Part 1 of
a 13-part series called:
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"The Abortion Controversy"
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We are going to be
dealing with a topic that
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many people just
don't want to talk about;
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they buried it so deep
and it's hard to get it out,
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but we're going to do it.
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We're going to do
it with hearts of love.
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My guest, for the first
program, is "Dianne Wagner."
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She is a retired registered
nurse' she is a mother of 4.
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She is from North Carolina and
she has had 2 abortions herself.
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She has suffered
more than I'll ever know,
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or that you'll ever know,
and yet she has found hope
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and healing and she is here
to share her story with you,
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and with me.
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Dianne, thank you.
Thank you, and I want to
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tell you what first
interested me, really, in doing
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this series with
you, having you come,
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and having Antoinette
come later on, and it started
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with a friend that was
sending me literature and books,
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and information in
the mail, and by email,
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just really encouraging me
to get involved in this topic.
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And, I'm a busy man, I
have a lot of things to do
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with my wife, my
kids, the ministry.
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And, I just kept, you
know, it wasn't really
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on the front burner, but
then I was sent a link to
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your talk and
Antoinette Duck's talk at ASI,
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at a big church convention.
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And, I was in Oregon, in
a hotel on Saturday night,
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and I had some free
time, and I took out my phone,
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and I found a link on my phone,
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and I listened to your
entire talk, your story.
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And I tell you, Dianne,
I was so... I just want to
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hold your hand... I
was so moved by listening
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to what you had to say,
and what Antoinette had to say,
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that it just
brought me over the line.
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Praise the Lord.
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And I thought, we have
got to do a series on this,
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and bring you here.
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So here we are
and the time is yours,
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we'll bounce back and forth, but
tell us what's on your heart.
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Well, I love the title
"Breaking the Silence,"
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because one thing
I've learned is that people
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are silent about this issue, and
they are afraid to speak out...
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And a lot of times, the reason
they're afraid to speak out
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is because they're afraid
they are going to hurt somebody
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who has had an abortion.
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And I was one of those
ladies who has had the abortion,
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and no one talked about it,
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no one knew how
to talk about it.
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And I'm one of
many; in fact, since 1973
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or between 1973 and 2011,
there were 53 million abortions,
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induced
abortions in this country.
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... 53 million
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And that's just up until 2011,
it's estimated that it's up to
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57 million now.
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And correct me if I'm wrong,
but that's just in America.
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That's in
America, that's correct.
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Wow, we're
dealing with a huge topic.
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It's a big issue, it is,
and, you know, as I looked
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into it, I realized 21% of
all pregnancies in this country
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will end in an induced abortion.
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And, half of American
women will have an unintended,
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not planned, pregnancy by
the age of 45. Half - wow...
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And 4 out of 10 of those
pregnancies will be terminated
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by abortion.
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I thought that was
very sobering and then
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half of those ladies have
already had one abortion already
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which is very sobering.
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Now, I thought, well
who are these people?
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Who are - who are the people
who are having these abortions?
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Well, 18% are
teenagers, 57% are in their 20s,
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44% are college-age kids
which I thought was amazing,
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37% are Protestant and 28%
have a Catholic background.
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Of those who are having abortion
in America. That's right
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I mean, that's more than half,
that's just a shocking statistic
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So what you're saying
is based on the numbers,
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that more than half of
the abortions in America
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are occurring
with women that have
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a religious
background. Exactly...
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Protestant or Catholic...
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That's right, it's
not just "out there,"
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it's in our church.
It's in the churches as well.
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It sounds like the
divorce rate, too, I've heard
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or read, it's similar to what is
happening in the secular society
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and in the church, the
divorce rate is the same.
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So the abortion
numbers are right there too.
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That's right, that's right,
and you know, I was one of them.
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I was brought up in a
Seventh-day Adventist home,
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and I went to the church
school, and was a Pathfinder,
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went to summer
camp, loved summer camp.
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Worked in summer camp,
and went through the academy,
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and have great memories of
band trips and choir trips,
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you know - temperance
rallies and Bible conferences...
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I loved it all.
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In fact, it was in academy that
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I gave my heart
to Jesus at 15... 15
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I loved the
experience, and now, college was
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harder for me because it
was during the college years
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that my parents divorced,
and I experienced the prejudice
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and the inconsistencies
within this church
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that I loved so much.
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And, I'll be honest with
you, I had to step back...
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I had to reevaluate my
position with the church...
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You know, is God here? Is
this where the Lord wants me?
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Was I just growing
up in some enchanted
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Seventh-day Adventist
bubble while growing up,
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and now here's
the cruel reality?
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So you found out
that the Adventist Church,
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like other churches,
is not a perfect church.
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Exactly, exactly,
and so by the time...
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you know, I was
engaged to be married
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to my college
sweetheart, the Lord had
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had answered my questions.
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And my husband-to-be and
myself, we both wanted to have
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a Seventh-day Adventist
home, and we wanted to have a
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Christian home, of course.
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And I knew the Lord
had anointed my church,
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and I knew the Lord had a
high calling for this church,
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so I recommitted myself to it.
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But now, with that said, 6
months before my wedding day,
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I found out that I was pregnant.
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And you told me that you messed
up - you can say... One time.
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One time and that
one time was enough,
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and then you
discovered... oh my,
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there's a baby inside me.
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That's right -
that didn't matter.
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I had blown it, and I
was embarrassed to death.
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I was shamed, I just
panicked, my life became a blur.
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I know I called my
mother, but I don't remember
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a thing she said,
and I called my fiancee;
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don't remember a thing he said.
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It's like amnesia, you just...
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Panic, it's absolutely panic.
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Blacked it out or just
couldn't even remember.
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Your life was in a whirlwind.
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Scared to death, but the
hospital that I was working at,
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because I was a
traveling nurse at the time,
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they required
x-rays on the lower back.
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So I had had a series
of x-rays on my back...
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And that was before you
knew that you were pregnant.
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Before I knew I was pregnant.
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And the tech had asked
me if there was any way
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or any chance you
might be pregnant,
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and I told her, No."
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And of course, that
just made it all the worse,
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more embarrassed, more
reason to be embarrassed,
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because I should
have, you know, known.
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Well, the x-rays concerned me,
so I called different physicians
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that I had been working
with, and everyone of them...
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I asked them,
"If I were your wife,
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what would you want me to do?"
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And every single one
of them said, "Abort."
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They would want her
to abort the pregnancy.
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And that's
because of the x- rays...
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That's right, and none
of them referred to it as a
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child or your baby - it
was just "that pregnancy,
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get rid of THAT pregnancy."
...terminate the pregnancy...
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So I promptly turned around
and called the abortion clinic
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and found out how much it
cost how far along I had to be,
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and I set an
appointment. Excuse me.
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And that's what I did,
and when I got to the clinic,
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there was a counselor there that
we were supposed to talk to.
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And you were 25... I
was 25 and scared to death.
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I... I... there's, I can't
even begin to describe to you
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the fear and panic -
it's a very bad situation.
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Well this counselor,
she wasn't a Christian,
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but she was
sympathetic, and she assured me
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that at that time,
it was just a fuzz ball.
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And, I was a nurse and I
had studied plenty, you know,
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anatomy and physiology,
but it never occurred to me
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to question that.
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In fact, I was so
afraid and so panicked,
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and looking back at it, I
realize it even more because
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I consented to have
this procedure done without
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even any anesthesia... Oh wow
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which was a nightmare.
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The pain was so bad,
I lost consciousness.
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And, it was just a
very bad situation.
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So, after it was over,
you do feel a sense of relief,
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but it's very brief...
for me it was very brief.
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And the fact, the reality of
what I had done was harrowing.
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Now when you say, "The
reality of what you had done,"
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did you have the sober moments
that were then coming to you
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once you got on the other
side of the initial feelings of
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relief, that you were starting
to realize that it was a child
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that you had done this to? Sure!
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A pregnancy means a child.
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So it wasn't a fuzz ball. No
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And then as time
went on, you realized
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this was more
than a fuzz ball. Yes
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You knew too much
about the body and about
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the developmental process,
and later on we're going to go
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into the details about
what really happens... Right
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So it was very
bad - I hated myself.
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I had anger towards my husband,
and neither one of us knew
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what was going on.
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And something died
inside of me that day,
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and it had an impact on me
that would affect every aspect
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of my life - it was profound.
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So, I hated myself, and
I started punishing myself.
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I remember, one night, I
got up and got the scissors
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cut off all my hair,
really short - stubs.
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My husband didn't know - I
don't even think he realized,
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or really know he didn't
realize all this had to do
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with the abortion.
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And, there were times when
I would go into the bathroom
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and I would sit on the
toilet and I would take a razor
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and I would run that
razor up the inside of my arm.
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And I can remember
sitting there and just watching
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the blood - I had
never heard of cutting.
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You know now, they talk about
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kids cutting
themselves and stuff. Right
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And, as I look at it, I had
so much pain on the inside,`
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but on the outside, I was numb,
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and it was like I
needed to feel pain.
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I needed to feel
like I was still alive.
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It was very strange.
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And did you
connect at that point,
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that this - what you were
doing, cutting off your hair,
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and cutting your arm,
that that was connected to
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the abortion or did you
not really get that yet?
00:12:06.65\00:12:09.49
You know, it's strange because
I don't think I did completely.
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I was just very, very
unhappy, very insecure.
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I had an incredible
feeling of unworthiness.
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You know, I was just dead.
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I had... I was
just... I had froze up.
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The sad thing about
that is... about that time
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I found out I
was pregnant again.
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Now this was after my husband
and I, we had been married.
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This was still
within the year though.
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And, I already knew I
was not fit to be a mother.
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I was... like I
said, I hated myself.
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Were you still, at that point,
were you still going to church,
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after you had
married, and now you're into
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your second pregnancy,
and you were going to church,
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... yes... you were
listening to sermons,
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and yet,
evidently it still wasn't...
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the sermons or
whatever you were hearing
00:13:01.18\00:13:02.68
wasn't penetrating you
enough to really deal with your
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root issue that was
simmering and destroying you.
00:13:04.91\00:13:09.68
No, I had buried it pretty deep.
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You know, my husband was
in dental school at the time,
00:13:12.05\00:13:14.36
and no one knew... no one knew
it was very deep at that time,
00:13:14.39\00:13:20.33
and so when we - when I
found out I was pregnant again,
00:13:20.40\00:13:25.33
I knew I wasn't fit to
be a mother, like I said,
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and so I made the appointment.
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I lied about how far
along I was - I wasn't quite,
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you know, far along enough,
but this time we did get the
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anesthesia because
the pain is so very bad.
00:13:37.05\00:13:39.65
So you went back to a clinic.
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We went back to another clinic
and the first time I had it,
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I cried, I was very afraid
and the physician that was there
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held me - he hugged
me, but after I passed out
00:13:50.23\00:13:53.60
the second time, this was
the first abortion, he got mad.
00:13:53.66\00:13:56.16
Well this time,
the second abortion,
00:13:57.20\00:14:00.24
I didn't have any
tears, I had no emotion.
00:14:00.27\00:14:04.01
I just went in, I
listened to a little speech
00:14:04.04\00:14:06.68
that you were supposed
to hear, and had it done.
00:14:06.71\00:14:09.08
And at this point, you had
not had any children yet, right?
00:14:09.11\00:14:11.48
No, no - No, I wasn't fit at
that time, I felt I wasn't fit.
00:14:11.51\00:14:15.85
So, this baby that
had been taken was taken
00:14:15.88\00:14:22.69
mercilessly from the security
of my womb and my identity
00:14:22.72\00:14:27.30
was being stripped
mercilessly from my soul.
00:14:27.40\00:14:30.03
I was becoming more and
more of an empty existing...
00:14:30.07\00:14:33.90
you gotta
exist... people around you
00:14:33.94\00:14:36.34
don't have a clue what
you're carrying on inside.
00:14:36.37\00:14:40.68
So, you continue to exist...
00:14:40.74\00:14:44.41
And you told me that you
reached out - you started to...
00:14:44.45\00:14:47.95
you found out something
about some potential help.
00:14:47.98\00:14:50.45
I did, in fact, one of
the things I struggled with
00:14:50.49\00:14:53.62
that really got a hold of
me after the second abortion...
00:14:53.66\00:14:56.89
The first abortion I
dealt with bulimia a little bit,
00:14:56.93\00:15:00.46
but after my second
one, it got me full grip.
00:15:00.53\00:15:03.13
And bulimia, you know, is
an eating disorder where you
00:15:03.16\00:15:06.33
just stuff yourself with
food until you just can't
00:15:06.37\00:15:10.71
stuff anymore down and
then you purge - you vomit,
00:15:10.74\00:15:14.01
you just vomit
all over the place,
00:15:14.08\00:15:16.11
and it's just...
it is a good feeling!
00:15:16.14\00:15:19.01
It's like you're up and out.
00:15:19.05\00:15:21.25
You know, it's like the
pain coming out with cutting,
00:15:21.28\00:15:23.59
except this is the
pain coming up and out...
00:15:23.62\00:15:27.19
And, at the time, I
didn't realize what I needed
00:15:27.26\00:15:30.13
was a redemptive purge.
00:15:30.16\00:15:32.59
I need to be able
to get up all this pain
00:15:32.63\00:15:35.30
and have the healing
of a redeeming Savior,
00:15:35.33\00:15:38.27
you know, something that
would come and take all my pain,
00:15:38.30\00:15:41.10
and replace it with something
that was real, that would last.
00:15:41.14\00:15:45.91
Well, you know, the bulimia
only just brought more shame,
00:15:45.94\00:15:50.71
and it brought more secrecy.
00:15:50.75\00:15:52.21
You have food hidden everywhere
and you spend money...
00:15:52.25\00:15:54.98
And, you know, I told
you my husband was in school,
00:15:55.02\00:15:57.05
we were poor.
00:15:57.09\00:15:58.42
So, to be spending
money on food like that
00:15:58.45\00:16:01.86
just put more of a stress on the
relationship, especially when
00:16:01.89\00:16:04.89
it's done in secrecy,
so it was a very hard time.
00:16:04.93\00:16:10.37
Now here I was, a new bride,
00:16:10.40\00:16:12.63
and all the joys
of being a new bride
00:16:12.67\00:16:14.97
were being taken away from me.
00:16:15.00\00:16:16.94
I couldn't sleep at
night and I was very depressed.
00:16:17.01\00:16:20.58
And, I finally went to a
therapist and she gave me
00:16:20.61\00:16:24.45
the sleeping pills and she gave
me the pills for depression,
00:16:24.48\00:16:27.75
but she never took a history.
00:16:27.78\00:16:29.72
She never tried to
find out what was at the
00:16:29.75\00:16:31.72
root of this problem
which is very unfortunate.
00:16:31.75\00:16:36.93
But, so eventually I
just stopped taking the pills,
00:16:36.96\00:16:40.60
kind of gave up - it was just
00:16:40.63\00:16:42.23
not really taking
care of the problem.
00:16:42.26\00:16:44.83
And thank God you didn't decide
00:16:44.87\00:16:46.47
to take too many
pills... Take all of them...
00:16:46.50\00:16:48.24
It was only by the grace of
God that I'm sitting here... Wow
00:16:48.27\00:16:51.24
That's by God's grace.
00:16:51.27\00:16:54.44
And then, the other
thing is our marriage
00:16:54.48\00:16:57.21
was just falling apart
and we loved each other.
00:16:57.25\00:17:00.18
We've loved each
other since college.
00:17:00.25\00:17:01.75
So, you know, we wanted
help, and we went to a marriage
00:17:01.78\00:17:04.85
counselor and, after
meeting with us one time,
00:17:04.89\00:17:08.79
she told us that
she didn't think our
00:17:08.82\00:17:10.16
marriage could be saved
which was devastating...
00:17:10.19\00:17:13.33
And she never asked us if
we had ever had a miscarriage,
00:17:13.36\00:17:16.56
or stillbirth or an
abortion because these type
00:17:16.60\00:17:21.07
situations can put all
kinds of pressure and play havoc
00:17:21.10\00:17:25.74
with the relationship.
00:17:25.77\00:17:27.11
It's an unresolved issue
that needs to be addressed.
00:17:27.18\00:17:29.81
So we left that and everything
00:17:29.84\00:17:34.42
seemed pretty - pretty dismal,
yes, and it was hopeless.
00:17:34.45\00:17:42.96
There, for a while, it
was very, very depressing,
00:17:42.99\00:17:44.79
and one night I
remember scraping up the courage
00:17:44.83\00:17:46.90
to call a 1-800 hot line number.
00:17:46.93\00:17:49.90
I had heard an
advertisement on the radio
00:17:49.93\00:17:51.97
about women who had had
abortion and there was hope.
00:17:52.00\00:17:55.00
You know, it sounded good.
00:17:55.04\00:17:56.40
It sounded good. Right!
00:17:56.44\00:17:57.77
And so I wrote
down that 1-800 number
00:17:57.81\00:17:59.57
and that night, I hid
in the washroom by myself,
00:17:59.61\00:18:03.98
I remember exactly where I
was and I called that number.
00:18:04.01\00:18:07.05
And the woman answered,
and I told her my story,
00:18:07.08\00:18:11.02
and she - the first
thing she said was...
00:18:11.05\00:18:14.42
"Well you know
abortion is murder, don't you?"
00:18:14.46\00:18:18.56
It just took me off guard,
there was no grace, no mercy,
00:18:18.59\00:18:22.50
no kindness even
in that response,
00:18:22.53\00:18:25.30
so I hung up the phone.
00:18:25.33\00:18:26.94
I just totally...
it just messed me up!
00:18:26.97\00:18:31.07
Well then just maybe 2
weeks later one of the girls
00:18:31.11\00:18:34.31
I worked with asked me if I
wanted to come and join them
00:18:34.34\00:18:37.18
for church, so
David and I, we did.
00:18:37.25\00:18:41.48
The next Sunday, we
went to church with them,
00:18:41.52\00:18:45.45
and their preacher was
speaking on abortion... Oh wow
00:18:45.49\00:18:49.56
And he was very
loud and very animated,
00:18:49.59\00:18:52.23
and he just got
louder and louder and finally
00:18:52.26\00:18:55.70
with this burst of
proclamation he declared that
00:18:55.73\00:19:00.37
the Lord would not and
could not forgive a woman
00:19:00.40\00:19:03.14
who had had an abortion.
00:19:03.17\00:19:04.97
And, I can remember
sitting out in the congregation,
00:19:05.01\00:19:09.41
and it's like - that man
confirmed right then and there
00:19:09.44\00:19:13.11
every reason I had for
hating myself, and every reason
00:19:13.15\00:19:17.55
I had for thinking there
was no hope for me... Wow
00:19:17.62\00:19:21.36
So, it was a
long time after that
00:19:21.39\00:19:24.83
before I reached
out to anybody again.
00:19:24.86\00:19:26.93
That's when I just
really sucked it up,
00:19:26.96\00:19:29.96
you know, and
didn't say anything.
00:19:30.00\00:19:32.77
Let's move in... we
only have so much time
00:19:32.80\00:19:35.17
in this first segment
- we've got more coming.
00:19:35.20\00:19:37.14
But, let's move into
how you began to discover
00:19:37.21\00:19:41.01
that there was hope for you.
00:19:41.04\00:19:43.28
Well, the bulimia did continue.
00:19:43.35\00:19:47.32
You know, the life
of survival continued...
00:19:47.35\00:19:50.09
Six years it was
before I got help,
00:19:50.12\00:19:53.25
and I had 3
children at the time.
00:19:53.29\00:19:56.32
My husband and
I were in trouble.
00:19:56.36\00:19:59.46
My sister said she had a
friend she wanted me to go see,
00:19:59.49\00:20:02.66
and I did - I went to this
woman and she had a ministry.
00:20:02.70\00:20:06.70
And, I really didn't
know - have any particular
00:20:06.74\00:20:09.97
reason for going, but she
was very kind and discerning,
00:20:10.01\00:20:13.68
and she brought me
to the feet of Jesus.
00:20:13.74\00:20:15.74
And I was so beaten down, I
didn't even know how to pray.
00:20:15.78\00:20:18.75
Did you talk about
the abortion with her?
00:20:18.78\00:20:20.12
Not initially, she
gained my confidence.
00:20:20.18\00:20:22.22
She was so kind to me,
and so interested in me
00:20:22.25\00:20:25.99
that she first
gained my confidence.
00:20:26.02\00:20:28.32
And she was so
kind, that before I left,
00:20:28.36\00:20:31.43
I really felt compelled like
I wanted to share that with her.
00:20:31.46\00:20:34.66
And I did, and she
took it very serious,
00:20:34.73\00:20:37.43
you know, she
didn't take it lightly.
00:20:37.50\00:20:41.40
And she called it a sin and that
I needed to confess that sin,
00:20:41.44\00:20:47.31
and acknowledge it
as a sin. Really...
00:20:47.34\00:20:50.08
And so she took me
back to the feet of Jesus.
00:20:50.11\00:20:53.78
But that didn't make
you want to run away... No
00:20:53.85\00:20:57.22
Not in that case...
Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
00:20:57.25\00:21:00.86
The preacher, you know,
thumping - that made me run,
00:21:00.89\00:21:04.56
and the 800 line,
but not this lady.
00:21:04.59\00:21:06.80
It was like, "thank you."
00:21:06.83\00:21:09.56
So we knelt and she
prayed and I prayed,
00:21:09.60\00:21:12.70
and that night, I
confessed the sin of abortion.
00:21:12.73\00:21:15.44
You did... Yeah, I
confessed out loud,
00:21:15.47\00:21:17.97
praying with this woman
and asked Jesus to forgive me.
00:21:18.01\00:21:22.68
And it was the beginning
of a journey that I wish
00:21:22.71\00:21:29.08
had been shorter,
which we will get into,
00:21:29.12\00:21:31.49
but it was the first
steps, and it made a huge
00:21:31.52\00:21:34.12
difference in my life.
00:21:34.16\00:21:35.49
That night, as a
physical demonstration of
00:21:35.52\00:21:37.86
the Lord's healing,
He took my bulimia away,
00:21:37.89\00:21:41.20
and I really believe He
physically did that so that
00:21:41.23\00:21:44.57
later - months
and years to come,
00:21:44.60\00:21:46.77
I would have assurance
that the Lord had forgiven me
00:21:46.80\00:21:49.80
because when you
still feel pain and misery,
00:21:49.84\00:21:52.44
it's easy to doubt
the Lord's forgiveness,
00:21:52.47\00:21:55.44
but I knew He had forgiven
me and I hung on to that.
00:21:55.48\00:21:59.35
That was the
beginning... That was - yes.
00:21:59.38\00:22:01.35
So I'm just to
zero in on this...
00:22:01.38\00:22:03.39
So it was the realization
through the woman that
00:22:03.42\00:22:07.82
helped you with a
loving heart, Absolutely!
00:22:07.86\00:22:10.63
that you had, she
said, "Committed a sin,"
00:22:10.66\00:22:13.50
and your acceptance of
that and recognition of that,
00:22:13.53\00:22:17.53
and then actually verbally
saying that to God, right?
00:22:17.57\00:22:22.10
You opened your mouth and
you confessed that. I did.
00:22:22.14\00:22:24.77
Because a lot of people
I know, and we're going to
00:22:24.87\00:22:26.24
talk about this
more - that the issue of,
00:22:26.27\00:22:28.11
"Is abortion a sin or not,"
we're going to get into that
00:22:28.14\00:22:31.38
more - what's really going on
with what's inside the body...
00:22:31.41\00:22:35.32
Is it really a person or
is it just a fuzz ball...
00:22:35.35\00:22:38.55
But anyway, just for in your
case, it was the recognition
00:22:38.59\00:22:42.96
that you had done
wrong, had committed a sin
00:22:42.99\00:22:46.03
within the context of
someone that cared about you,
00:22:46.06\00:22:49.26
and acknowledging
that, that opened the door
00:22:49.30\00:22:52.63
for God to really
work and for you to start
00:22:52.67\00:22:56.24
experiencing His forgiveness
and His grace, is that right?
00:22:56.27\00:23:00.61
Yes, His power - it was an
incredible life-changing night,
00:23:00.68\00:23:05.61
and even though the
journey was not going to be easy
00:23:05.65\00:23:09.18
right off, it absolutely
gave me courage to continue to
00:23:09.22\00:23:13.76
exist because at that
point, I was exhausted,
00:23:13.79\00:23:17.13
and I did want to
run away from it all.
00:23:17.16\00:23:18.86
That's why my sister sent
me to her, because she knew
00:23:18.89\00:23:21.53
I was on the brink and I know
the Lord put her in my life...
00:23:21.56\00:23:26.03
And I was so glad that she
was secure enough that she could
00:23:26.07\00:23:29.67
say, "Call it a sin,
but yet be so completely
00:23:29.70\00:23:34.74
confident in the Lord's
ability to forgive... His grace.
00:23:34.78\00:23:39.68
There's a verse in Jeremiah
3:11 where God told Israel...
00:23:39.71\00:23:44.35
He said, "Only acknowledge your
sin," be willing to confess that
00:23:44.39\00:23:49.86
And then He said, "I am married
to you; return oh backsliding
00:23:49.89\00:23:53.96
children, says the Lord."
00:23:54.00\00:23:55.30
And that God still loved Israel,
He loves us, He loves you,
00:23:55.33\00:23:58.13
He loves me, He loves us
all, but we do have to...
00:23:58.17\00:24:00.84
we have to own up to what we've
done and that is part of the
00:24:00.87\00:24:05.04
healing process, and
if we short circuit that,
00:24:05.07\00:24:08.18
we're not really going to
find the mercy and the grace,
00:24:08.21\00:24:11.71
and the love and
the forgiveness of God.
00:24:11.75\00:24:13.45
And, you know, God's forgiveness
is real, it's very powerful,
00:24:13.52\00:24:16.55
I've experienced it myself,
it's changed my life, too.
00:24:16.58\00:24:19.05
So, wow... anymore? We
have a little bit of time
00:24:19.09\00:24:22.72
... another 5 minutes.
00:24:22.76\00:24:24.76
I just wanted to
really stress the importance
00:24:24.79\00:24:29.03
that this woman had
in my life because she
00:24:29.06\00:24:31.77
validated what
was bringing me down,
00:24:31.80\00:24:35.47
and she validated it
because she called it "sin."
00:24:35.50\00:24:38.74
You know, so many
times, we try to soft-pedal
00:24:38.77\00:24:42.28
part of being sensitive...
00:24:42.31\00:24:43.91
you know, part of the trying
- we don't want to hurt someone.
00:24:43.95\00:24:47.38
And certainly we need
to use wisdom and tact,
00:24:47.42\00:24:50.45
and God's wisdom...
00:24:50.49\00:24:51.82
That's where the pastor and
the Help-line didn't help you.
00:24:51.85\00:24:54.89
They called it "sin,"
but grace wasn't there.
00:24:54.92\00:24:58.76
The grace wasn't there...
00:24:58.79\00:25:00.23
And the love wasn't there,
and the mercy wasn't there.
00:25:00.26\00:25:02.33
That's right, and, and...
00:25:02.36\00:25:03.70
And you ran from that...
00:25:03.77\00:25:05.10
I did, and I see more
and more there is a change,
00:25:05.13\00:25:07.84
you know, that even
the pro-life movement,
00:25:07.87\00:25:10.51
initially, they were
just all about the baby,
00:25:10.54\00:25:12.61
all about the baby and
would walk all over the mother.
00:25:12.64\00:25:14.84
And now, they're
realizing the mother has value
00:25:14.88\00:25:18.28
just as much as that baby.
00:25:18.31\00:25:19.95
And so now, they are
approaching both of them.
00:25:20.02\00:25:23.15
And they are
making a big difference;
00:25:23.18\00:25:24.95
David Reardon has
made a big impact.
00:25:24.99\00:25:27.76
Who is David Reardon?
00:25:27.79\00:25:29.12
He is one of the
advocates for abortion,
00:25:29.16\00:25:32.29
not promoting
abortion, but opposing abortion,
00:25:32.33\00:25:36.03
and post-abortive
stress and trauma.
00:25:36.06\00:25:40.00
And I was really glad to hear
him say that - - how it's not
00:25:40.04\00:25:43.24
all about the baby, it's
that baby and her mother,
00:25:43.27\00:25:46.84
and even, you know,
other people who are involved,
00:25:46.88\00:25:50.85
father if he is there.
00:25:50.91\00:25:53.78
So people in all camps
need... we have a lot to learn.
00:25:53.82\00:25:57.05
Absolutely, that's why
I'm so glad we're breaking
00:25:57.09\00:25:59.89
the silence on this
issue... And, you're talking
00:25:59.92\00:26:01.56
about it well... And
thank you, thank you.
00:26:01.59\00:26:03.32
Sure, we hope, our hope
and prayer is that you're
00:26:03.36\00:26:05.29
testimony and Antoinette's
testimony, when she comes,
00:26:05.33\00:26:07.66
that this is all just
going to open up the floodgates
00:26:07.73\00:26:11.43
of emotion and people are
going to break the silence.
00:26:11.47\00:26:15.10
They're going to come
out, they're going to talk,
00:26:15.14\00:26:16.81
and that the talking and looking
at the Bible in a balanced way,
00:26:16.84\00:26:20.28
and looking to God and to
Jesus, that it's going to result
00:26:20.31\00:26:23.35
in tremendous healing
and just waves of goodness
00:26:23.38\00:26:27.02
which, I mean there's
a lot of women and men...
00:26:27.05\00:26:28.98
We'll talk about the men's
issue too later on. Absolutely
00:26:29.02\00:26:30.69
That a lot of us are hurting,
people are hurting on all sides,
00:26:30.72\00:26:34.29
and people need the Healer.
00:26:34.32\00:26:36.39
Jesus said, in
the book of Luke 4:18,
00:26:36.42\00:26:40.93
Jesus said that "The
Spirit of the Lord is upon Me
00:26:40.96\00:26:44.77
because He has anointed
Me to preach the gospel,
00:26:44.80\00:26:49.20
the good news to the
poor. He has sent Me to heal
00:26:49.24\00:26:51.74
the
brokenhearted and to proclaim
00:26:51.77\00:26:55.08
liberty to the captives
and the recovery of sight
00:26:55.11\00:26:59.08
to those who are blind,
and to proclaim the acceptable
00:26:59.11\00:27:03.05
year of the Lord."
00:27:03.08\00:27:05.45
God knows what we've
done, He knows anything
00:27:05.49\00:27:07.12
that we've ever done and
no matter how deep or dark
00:27:07.19\00:27:09.29
our sin and pain and
guilt, Jesus is a healer.
00:27:09.32\00:27:14.36
He opens the eyes of the
blind and He can heal the
00:27:14.40\00:27:16.36
brokenhearted and He
can heal you in your life
00:27:16.40\00:27:18.83
whatever has
ever happened to you.
00:27:18.87\00:27:20.84
And our hope is that you
will discover that healing power
00:27:20.87\00:27:23.81
through the series
"The Abortion Controversy"
00:27:23.84\00:27:27.68
Dianne Wagner and
Antoinette Duck share
00:27:27.71\00:27:30.05
powerful life-changing
information in this
00:27:30.08\00:27:32.38
13-part series "The
Abortion Controversy"
00:27:32.41\00:27:35.68
To order this 6-1/2
hour DVD set for only $34.95,
00:27:35.72\00:27:40.36
call 1-800-782-4253
00:27:40.39\00:27:43.73
That's 1-800-782-4253
00:27:43.76\00:27:47.60
Or, you can
write to the following:
00:27:47.60\00:27:48.93
Or, order online
at whitehorsemedia.com
00:27:53.54\00:27:57.57