Participants: Pr. Stephen Bohr
Series Code: SOD
Program Code: SOD000004
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00:01 If a man dies shall he live again?
00:07 What does it mean to be absent from the body 00:09 and present with the Lord? 00:13 Did Jesus go with the thief to Paradise on Good Friday? 00:18 Did the souls of dead people really cry out 00:22 from below the altar? 00:23 Pastor Bohr answers these questions and more 00:28 in the amazing series, 00:34 Shall we bow our heads for prayer? 00:36 Our Father and our God, we're so thankful for the awesome 00:40 opportunity of coming into Your presence with the express 00:45 purpose of opening Your Holy Book, and studying a portion 00:49 from that book. We ask, Father, that as we explore 00:54 Philippians 1:21-24 that Your Holy Spirit will be with us. 01:00 Open our minds that we might be able to understand what You have 01:04 for us. Help us to set aside all preconceived ideas 01:08 that we might hear Your voice. 01:10 We pray this in the precious name of Your Beloved Son, Jesus. 01:13 Amen. As I mentioned in my prayer, we're going to study 01:20 today the passage that we find in the book of 01:23 Philippians 1:21-24. 01:28 And basically, in this series, we're dealing with texts 01:33 that have been misused to try and teach that when a person 01:37 dies their soul departs the body and goes to Heaven, 01:42 if the person was righteous, or perhaps to hell if the person 01:46 was wicked. We're dealing with the texts that are used 01:49 to try and prove that. 01:51 We're not trying to sweep these Bible verses under the rug. 01:54 You know, it's very easy to use verses that express our own 01:59 ideas, like the living know that they will die, 02:02 but the dead know nothing. 02:03 You know, the Bible is clear on that, but then you have these 02:06 difficult verses that you have to deal with; you have to come 02:09 to terms with them. 02:11 And so today we are going to discuss another one of these 02:15 passages. Turn in your Bibles with me then to 02:17 Philippians 1:21-24, and in a couple of moments I'm going 02:24 to go back to verse 20 as well for the context. 02:28 It says there, here the Apostle Paul is speaking, For me to live 02:33 is Christ, and to die is gain. 02:37 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit 02:43 from my labor: yet what I shall choose I cannot tell, 02:47 for I am hard pressed between the two, 02:51 having a desire to depart and be with Christ; 02:55 which is far better: Nevertheless to remain 03:00 in the flesh is more needful for you. 03:04 So basically the idea that people get from this passage, 03:08 as they read it with their preconceived notions, 03:12 is that the Apostle Paul was very anxious to die, 03:16 and depart at the moment of his death, so that he could be 03:20 with Christ; that is so that his soul could be with Christ. 03:25 The question is, is this what the passage is really 03:31 trying to teach? And, of course, as we examine it, 03:34 we will notice that it is not teaching this at all. 03:39 Now I need to give you a little bit of historical context about 03:42 the book of Philippians. 03:44 This book was written by the Apostle Paul during his first 03:48 imprisonment in the Mamertine Prison in Rome. 03:53 Now at this point the Apostle Paul did not know yet whether 03:58 he was going to be delivered from prison, or whether he was 04:01 going to die the death of a martyr. 04:05 So he didn't really know what was going to occur; 04:08 whether he was going to die, or whether he was going 04:11 be released and live, or whether he was going to left in prison 04:15 indefinitely. Now, you say, how do we know that this book was 04:19 written while the Apostle Paul was in prison? 04:22 Well, let's notice several verses from chapter 1 04:26 of Philippians, and we'll read verse 7, and then we'll go 04:30 to verses 13 and 14. 04:33 And I want you to notice the terminology. 04:34 The Apostle Paul is in prison at this point. He says this: 05:03 That's verse 7. Now let's go to verse 13. 05:11 See there it's speaking about the guards at the prison. 05:19 There's the idea of chains again. 05:36 So, very clearly, in context, the Apostle Paul is writing 05:41 this epistle from prison. 05:44 And according to those who have studied the chronology 05:46 of the gospels, and the chronology of the books of the 05:50 Apostle Paul, they say that this is the first imprisonment 05:54 of Paul in Rome. Now I'd like us to go back one verse. 05:59 We started in verse 21, but let's go to verse 20, 06:03 and notice a very interesting, and important expression here. 06:07 It says in Philippians 1:20; here the Apostle Paul, 06:10 once again is speaking: 06:17 I want you to remember that expression. 06:22 By the way, that's the translation of one Greek word. 06:26 The Greek word is apokaradokia. 06:29 That's a long word. 06:31 That's a mouthful, isn't it? 06:33 Basically, that word is translated, earnest expectation. 06:38 And now notice: 06:41 And what? hope. Notice that Paul had an... 07:01 What does the Apostle Paul want? 07:03 He wants to magnify Jesus in his body, whether it be alive, 07:09 or whether it be what? dead. 07:12 And you'll notice that he has an earnest expectation and hope. 07:17 Now the question is, what was the earnest expectation and hope 07:23 of the Apostle Paul? 07:24 Was his earnest expectation and hope that of dying, 07:30 and having his soul depart from the body, and go to Heaven, 07:35 to be with Jesus; was that his earnest expectation and hope? 07:39 Absolutely not. You see, we need to let Paul interpret Paul. 07:44 So now we need to go to Romans 8:19-23, 07:49 where the Apostle Paul uses that very same Greek word: 07:53 apokaradokia. Romans 8:19-23. 08:00 Here the Apostle Paul says this: 08:06 There's the same word. 08:17 You see creation is eagerly waiting for the revelation 08:20 of the Sons of God. What does that mean? Verse 20: 08:29 That is because Adam sinned. 08:31 Nature fell into futility, but it wasn't the choice of nature, 08:36 and so it says; once again verse 20: 08:48 So is there hope for creation? 08:50 Yes, there is. Does creation have an earnest expectation? 08:54 It most certainly does. Verse 21. 09:07 Is nature going to be transformed according to this? 09:11 At the same time that the children of God are transformed. 09:14 Absolutely! And that's the earnest expectation of the 09:17 children of God, and of creation, or nature. Verse 22: 09:42 And what are we groaning about? 09:44 We're groaning so we can die and have our soul fly off 09:46 to be with the Lord, right? 09:48 Absolutely not! It says, once again in verse 23: 09:51 Not only that, but we also who have the first fruits... 10:03 And what is the adoption? 10:11 So what was Paul's earnest expectation? 10:15 Was it to die and have his soul go to heaven? No! 10:20 It was, according to this, the adoption, the redemption of 10:25 the body. And when does the redemption of the body 10:27 take place? The Apostle Paul makes it very clear that our 10:30 body will be redeemed from corruption to incorruption, 10:33 from mortality to immortality, when Jesus comes on the clouds 10:38 of heaven. Now you'll notice here that the Apostle Paul 10:42 says that he wants to magnify, in his body, Jesus, 10:50 whether it be by life or by death. 10:55 By the way, that word magnify is also translated glorify God, 11:01 either by life, or by death. 11:03 Now the question is, how could the Apostle Paul glorify God 11:08 by his death? You say, that doesn't make any sense. 11:11 How can you glorify God by your death? 11:13 The fact is that you can if you are going to die the death 11:18 of a martyr. Notice the parallel case of the other great apostle 11:24 of the early church, the Apostle Peter. 11:26 Go to John 21:18, 19; John 21:18, 19. 11:35 You know, Jesus here was talking about what was going 11:38 to happen to Simon Peter at the end of his life. 11:40 Jesus was saying, your arms are going to be extended, 11:43 and you're not going to have any control whatsoever 11:46 over your body. In other words, they are going to extend 11:49 your arms and they're going to crucify you. 11:50 Notice John 21:18, 19. 12:14 And, by the way, early church tradition says the Apostle Peter 12:17 was offered the option of being crucified with his head up like 12:23 Jesus was, but he chose that he could not die in the same manner 12:28 as his Master, and so he requested that they crucify 12:32 him with his head down. Notice verse 19: 12:49 What is it that the death of Peter did? 12:51 It glorified God, or it magnified God, because Peter 12:57 was dying a faithful martyr to Jesus. 13:00 By the way, we have another case in scripture of a death 13:04 of a great saint glorifying God. 13:09 Notice Acts 7:59, 60; Acts 7:59, 60. 13:16 This is speaking about the death of Stephen, 13:19 the first Christian martyr. 13:21 And it says there in verse 59, And they stoned Stephen, 13:26 as he was calling on God, and saying, Lord Jesus, 13:31 receive my spirit. 13:44 Let me ask you, did the death of Stephen bring glory and honor 13:49 to God? It most certainly did. 13:51 And we're going to notice that it also bore fruit 13:54 to the glory of God. 13:55 You say, what do you mean it bore fruit to the glory of God? 13:58 Do you know that according to the book, Acts of the Apostles, 14:03 when Saul of Tarsus was watching those people stone Stephen, 14:10 and he saw Stephen with such a peaceful look on his face, 14:14 and looking to heaven, and speaking to Jesus 14:18 at the right hand of God, Saul of Tarsus was greatly impacted, 14:24 and he knew that Stephen had something that he needed. 14:27 Of course, in reaction to quiet his conscience, he immediately 14:32 went to persecute the church; to Damascus, but you know 14:35 what happened. He was knocked to the ground; 14:37 a voice spoke to him, and to make a long story short, 14:42 Saul of Tarsus became the great Apostle Paul. 14:45 It all began when the stoning of Stephen was taking place, 14:50 and the Bible says in Acts 6:15 that the face of Stephen was 14:55 like the face of an angel. 14:58 And so what is the Apostle Paul saying? 15:01 He's saying, if I die the death of a martyr, because he knew 15:04 he was going to die the death of a martyr, he says, my death 15:08 will what? my death will bring glory and honor to God. 15:13 My death will magnify the Lord. 15:17 Now notice what the Apostle Paul continues saying 15:20 in Philippians 1:21. He says: 15:33 Now you say, now wait a minute! 15:34 How can the Apostle Paul say that to die is gain? 15:40 We can understand that to live for Christ, you know, 15:44 that is a blessing. But in what sense is the Apostle Paul 15:52 gaining by dying? Well, the fact is that the Apostle Paul, 15:59 at this period in his ministry, was very, very tired. 16:02 In fact, I want to read you what the Apostle Paul had gone 16:07 through at this point of his life. 16:09 2 Corinthians 11:23-28. 16:12 This was quite an experience of the Apostle Paul. 16:15 2 Corinthians 11:23-28. 16:18 Here the Apostle Paul is describing 16:20 the many trials of his life. 16:25 He's speaking about his accusers. 17:33 Would you say that the Apostle Paul, at this point, 17:35 was pretty tired? After going through all these experiences, 17:40 the Apostle Paul is worn out, so he's saying, you know, 17:43 for me, actually, to die would be what? would be gain! 17:47 Why would it be gain? 17:48 Notice Revelation 14:13. 17:51 You see, in death what happens? 17:53 The Bible uniformly says that at the moment of death 17:57 we go to sleep. We just read it in Acts 7:60 about Stephen. 18:05 It says there that when he was stoned he fell asleep. 18:10 Let me ask you, is sleep an enjoyable experience? 18:14 Do you rest from your daily labors? Absolutely! 18:17 Now notice what it says in Revelation 14:13. 18:21 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Write, blessed are 18:25 the dead who die in the Lord from now on. 18:29 Yes, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors, 18:33 and their works follow them. 18:36 So what happens with people when they die? 18:40 They go and they what? and they rest. 18:43 Even today we say the person was laid to what? 18:46 The person was laid to rest. 18:49 We don't mean that the body was laid to rest, 18:51 we mean that the total person was laid to rest. 18:55 And so the Apostle Paul is saying, you know, for me to die 19:00 that would be gain, because I would rest. 19:03 Did the Apostle Paul have the security that if he died he was 19:07 dying in Christ, and he would resurrect someday? 19:10 He knew that it was just a moment of unconsciousness, 19:13 and so he knew that if he died the next thing he was going 19:16 to hear was the voice of Jesus, so he says, if I could rest 19:19 from my labors, if I could just pass away, that would be gain, 19:23 because I wouldn't have to suffer and go through these 19:25 tribulations anymore. 19:26 Are you understanding what the Apostle Paul is saying? 19:30 But then the Apostle Paul says something else. 19:33 Notice verse 22: but if I live on in the flesh... 19:39 That is if I don't die. 19:41 To die would be gain, he says. 19:50 Now we need to ask the question, what does the Apostle Paul 19:53 mean when he says, if I live on in the flesh? 19:58 You know, some people take that and say, see, the Apostle Paul 20:00 was saying that he didn't want to live in the flesh anymore. 20:03 He wanted to live as a disincarnated spirit or soul 20:07 in the presence of the Lord. 20:08 What did the Apostle Paul mean when he said, 20:11 to live in the flesh? 20:12 What he's actually saying is that if I live in my present 20:18 body, in my present existence, in a world where my body is 20:23 corruptible and mortal. 20:24 Let's notice several other texts from the Bible that use this 20:29 expression, flesh or flesh and blood. 20:33 Notice 1 Corinthians 15:50, 1 Corinthians 15:50. 20:40 It says there: 20:50 Let me ask you, does that mean that in the kingdom of God 20:53 we're not going to have flesh and blood? 20:55 Does that mean that we're going to have some just kind of some 20:59 ghostly existence with no flesh and blood at all? Of course not! 21:03 When it says, flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom 21:07 of God, that phrase is explained in the next phrase. 21:11 It says, nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 21:19 So what does flesh and blood mean? 21:21 It means our body in its present state of what? 21:25 of corruption. It's not talking about living in a spirit 21:31 existence outside the body. 21:32 When the Apostle Paul says, to live in the flesh, 21:35 with flesh and blood, he's saying, to stay in this body, 21:39 which is mortal and corruptible, is better right now because 21:42 it will bear fruit. 21:44 We'll talk about the fruit in a few moments. 21:46 By the way, when God's people resurrect, are they going to 21:49 have a body, a real body? 21:51 Yes! What kind of body? 21:53 Well, go with me to 1 Corinthians 15, 21:56 and let's start at verse 51. 21:59 We're already there. 22:00 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, 22:03 but we shall all be changed, in a moment, 22:06 in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: 22:09 for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised. 22:12 How? incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 22:17 Now notice this: For this corruptible (that is this flesh 22:21 that we have now)... this corruptible must put on what? 22:25 incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 22:30 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, 22:34 and this mortal has put on immortality, 22:37 then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, 22:41 Death is swallowed up in victory. 22:43 O death, where is your sting? 22:45 O Hades, where is your victory? 22:48 So let me ask you, are we going to have a body in the kingdom 22:51 to come? Yes, we are. 22:53 What kind of body? immortal and incorruptible. 22:57 But now we are in the flesh. 22:59 We have flesh and blood, which means our present existence, 23:03 our corruptible, mortal body. 23:05 It's not that we now have a body, and then we're not 23:08 going to have a body. 23:09 It means that now our body is corruptible, immortal, 23:12 then our body will be immortal, and incorruptible. 23:16 Are you understanding what I am saying? 23:17 Now let's look at another text that speaks about being in the 23:23 flesh. Notice Hebrews 5:7. 23:26 By the way, while you're looking for Hebrews 5:7, 23:29 let me ask you this question: Do you believe that Jesus 23:32 today has a body? Do you all believe He has a body? 23:35 Does that body have bones and blood? 23:38 Yes? Absolutely! We're going to notice it in a minute. 23:42 But now notice the expression that is used about Jesus 23:46 while He lived on this earth, in a body that was subject to 23:51 death, and subject to weakness, and subject to suffering. 23:55 Notice Hebrews 5:7: Who in the days of his flesh,... 24:01 So now He doesn't have flesh, right? 24:03 Of course He does! Is it a different kind of flesh? 24:07 Yes, because His flesh now is what? 24:10 incorruptible, and immortal. 24:26 Notice also Hebrews 2:14, Hebrews 2:14. It says there: 24:43 So did Jesus have flesh and blood like we have 24:46 flesh and blood? Yes. 24:47 Was He subject to death at that point? 24:50 Of course, because He did die. 24:52 And so it says: 24:59 So Jesus had flesh and blood. 25:01 Question, did Jesus still have flesh, and blood, and bones 25:05 after His resurrection? Of course He did. 25:08 So when Jesus came forth from the grave was He some kind of 25:13 ghost, or some kind of soul, or spirit entity? Of course not. 25:18 Notice what we find in Luke 24:39, Luke 24:39. 25:24 This is after the resurrection. 25:25 Jesus says to His disciples, Behold my hands and my feet... 25:31 Did Jesus have hands and feet? 25:35 So did He have a body? 25:36 Of course He did!... Behold my hands and my feet, 25:39 that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit does not 25:46 have what? flesh and bones, as you see that I have. 25:51 So, does Jesus have flesh and bones today? 25:56 Of course, He does! What is the distinction then? 25:58 The distinction is, in the days of the flesh, simply does not 26:03 mean contrasting the flesh with the spirit, or the soul. 26:07 It's contrasting our present existence of corruptibility, 26:11 and mortality, with our future existence of immortality, 26:15 and incorruptibility. 26:17 Now, notice 1 Corinthians 15: 42-44. 26:21 It puts it altogether. 26:24 1 Corinthians 15:42-44. 26:59 I'd like to read a very interesting statement from 27:01 Ellen White in the book Maranatha, which is a devotional 27:05 book, page 301, where she speaks about the spiritual body, 27:09 and its relationship to the physical body. She says: 27:14 Paul illustrates this subject, (the subject of the verses 27:20 that we just read). 27:21 Paul illustrates this subject by the kernel of grain sown 27:27 in the field. The planted kernel decays, but there comes forth a 27:33 new kernel. Is this true? 27:35 Those of you who are into agriculture? Sure! 27:38 The natural substance of the grain that decays is never 27:45 raised as before. But God giveth it a body 27:49 as it hath pleased Him. 27:51 A much finer material will compose the human body, 27:56 for it is a new creation, a new birth. 28:00 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. 28:07 Now why does the Apostle Paul say, But if I live in the flesh, 28:11 this will mean fruit from my labor. 28:14 In other words, if I live in this present existence, 28:16 this will produce fruit. 28:18 What did He mean by fruit? 28:20 Well, let's go to Colossians 1: 5, 6. 28:24 Let's allow Paul to interpret Paul. 28:28 Colossians 1:5, 6. 28:31 Here the Apostle Paul says: 28:42 So he's talking about the preaching of the gospel. 29:01 So how was the preaching of the gospel bearing fruit? 29:05 It was bearing fruit because souls were being won 29:08 to the kingdom of Jesus Christ. 29:10 Notice also, John 12:24, on what the Apostle Paul means, 29:15 that if I live in the flesh, in other words, if I live in my 29:18 present existence, in my corruptible, mortal body, 29:21 I'll be able to preach the gospel, and people will come 29:24 to the feet of Jesus and be saved. 29:26 John 12:24 speaks about some Greeks that come to Jesus, 29:32 and they want Jesus to come and preach over in Greece. 29:35 And Jesus says something strange, he says, you know, 29:40 it's not time to go to Greece now. 29:42 The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 29:45 The time has come for Me to die, is what He's saying. 29:48 Notice John 12:24. 30:07 And, of course, that's talking about souls that are saved. 30:11 So the Apostle Paul is very clearly saying that to live 30:15 in the flesh, in his present existence, will allow him to 30:18 preach the gospel. And as a result he will have the fruit 30:22 of souls coming to the feet of Jesus. 30:25 So he says, if I live in the flesh, I'm going to bring 30:30 souls, and fruit to Jesus. 30:32 If I die, he says, God will be glorified, and He will be what? 30:38 and He will be magnified. 30:39 So now he says, I don't know which of the two options I 30:44 should choose. Notice Philippians 1:22, 23. 30:50 See the Apostle Paul is caught between a rock and a hard place. 30:54 He says, you know, for me to die would be gain, 30:58 because, you know, I would magnify and glorify God 31:02 by the death of a martyr, and I would rest from all of my trials 31:06 and tribulations and labors. 31:07 He says, but if I live in the flesh, in my present existence, 31:10 I can preach the gospel, and I an bear fruit. 31:13 So he says, now I don't know what to choose. 31:16 I don't know whether to live in the flesh, 31:17 or I don't really know whether it would be better to die 31:20 and to rest. Up to this point he has how many options? 31:24 two options, but now suddenly a third option is going to appear. 31:29 And you say, what is the third option? 31:32 Philippians 1:22, 23. It says: 31:40 He says, whether to live in the flesh, or whether it is to die; 31:44 I can't tell. 31:48 In other words, I'm torn. 31:51 That is dying or staying. 31:55 Now notice, here comes a third option. 31:57 He says, I don't know what to choose: 31:59 whether to live in the flesh, or whether to die. 32:03 He says, but now a third option comes. He says: 32:15 Departing and being with Christ is far better than what? 32:19 It is far better than living in the flesh. 32:23 It is far better than what? than dying. 32:27 Now the question is, when did the Apostle Paul expect this 32:31 moment to be when he would depart and be with Christ, 32:36 which would be far better? 32:37 Was it that he would die and at that moment he would depart 32:41 to be with Jesus? Of course not, because he says, I don't know 32:46 whether to choose death or life. 32:47 I don't know whether to live in the flesh, or I don't know 32:50 whether it would be good to rest from my labors. 32:52 He says, but there's something that's better than either 32:54 of those, and that is to depart and to be with whom? 32:59 and to be with Jesus, which will be far better. 33:04 Far better than what? than living in the flesh. 33:07 Far better than simply dying. 33:10 In other words, the Apostle Paul is presenting a third 33:13 option. He's saying, translation is better than living 33:16 in the flesh. Translation is better than simply dying. 33:21 In other words, I would love to be translated to Heaven 33:25 from what? From among the living. 33:27 By the way, does this text tell us when he expected to depart? 33:30 Does the text say, you know, Christians read it this way, 33:34 yet what I shall choose, I cannot tell for I am 33:37 hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart 33:41 the moment I die, and be with Christ; which is far better. 33:46 That's the way Christians read it, see they add to the verse. 33:49 They say, Oh, I want to depart. 33:52 I want to die, and I want to depart. 33:54 By the way, does it say here, I would love to die 33:56 and have my soul depart, to be with Christ? 33:59 No, these are assumptions that are added by Christians, 34:03 because they're reading their preconceived notions 34:05 into scripture. They're reading Greek philosophy into the Bible 34:09 instead of allowing the Bible to speak for itself. 34:13 Now the question is, when did the Apostle Paul expect 34:16 to be with Jesus? Should we let Paul tell us? 34:22 Was it at the moment of death? 34:24 Absolutely not! Go with me to Philippians 3:10, 11. 34:29 By the way, it's the same book. 34:33 So you think the Apostle Paul in chapter 3 would contradict 34:36 what he said in chapter 1? Of course not. 34:39 When did the Apostle Paul expect to be with Jesus? 34:42 What did he look forward to if he should die? 34:46 Was he looking forward to his soul flying off to heaven, 34:49 or was he looking forward to the resurrection of the dead? 34:51 Notice Philippians 3:10, 11. 35:11 That my soul can fly off to heaven when I die. 35:13 That's not what it says. 35:15 Being conformed to his death... 35:20 To my immortal soul going to heaven. 35:23 That's not what it says. It says: 35:31 What was the hope of the Apostle Paul? 35:32 It was not dying and having his soul go to heaven. 35:36 It was dying and then having Jesus resurrect him 35:40 from the dead. The very book of Philippians tells us that. 35:43 Now also notice 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 14. 35:48 And here we're going to deal with another problem that 35:51 Christians bring to the fore. 35:53 They misread this text to give the idea, and I'll tell you what 35:58 the idea is. It's the idea that when a person dies, 36:01 listen to this, the body goes to the grave, the soul flies off 36:07 to heaven to be with Jesus, and then when Jesus comes 36:12 back the second time, He brings with Him all of the souls 36:18 of those who went to heaven when they died, and all those souls 36:21 now are joined with the body, and then Jesus takes the soul 36:25 and the body together back to Heaven. 36:26 Is that really what Jesus was trying to teach? 36:31 Is that what the Apostle Paul was even trying to teach? 36:34 Of course not. But let's read this problematic passage, 36:37 and then I'm going to give you a simple explanation of what 36:40 scripture is telling us. 36:41 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 14. 36:51 Who are those who have fallen asleep? 36:53 Those who have what? 36:54 Those who have died. 37:02 Now here comes the verse. 37:11 Where did Jesus go after He rose again? 37:15 He went to Heaven, right? 37:17 He went to His Father's house. 37:19 Would you agree with that? 37:20 He died, He resurrected, and He was taken by the angels 37:25 to where? to His Father's house. 37:28 To the presence of His Father, very clearly. 37:31 We're going to notice that in a moment. 37:37 What does even so mean? 37:39 Just like this in the same way. 37:43 Is this God the Father or Jesus? 37:45 This is God the Father. 37:51 Who's going to bring? 37:52 God is going to bring, not Jesus. 37:57 With whom? God will bring with Jesus to where? 38:05 To Heaven, to where the Father is. 38:10 That's right. It says, once again. 38:16 God the Father. 38:18 That is to Heaven. 38:20 That is with Jesus. 38:26 Now you say, now is this really true that it's not speaking 38:30 about Jesus bringing anybody with Him, but it's speaking 38:33 about Jesus taking those people from Earth with Him, 38:37 to God, to the Father in Heaven? 38:39 Absolutely! The context makes it very, very clear. 38:42 Let's notice a few details before we read the succeeding 38:46 verses. John 8:29 tells us that the Father sent Jesus 38:51 to this world. Notice John 8:29. 38:56 And this is just rudimentary, this is elementary, 39:01 but we need to have it in order to understand this passage. 39:04 It says here in John 8:29: 39:09 Who is the One who sent Jesus? God the Father. 39:21 So let me ask you, did the Father come down with Jesus, 39:23 or did the Father send Jesus? 39:25 Did the Father stay in Heaven when He sent Jesus 39:30 the first time? Of course. 39:31 He stayed up there and He sent Jesus. 39:34 Now notice John 16:28, where this idea is corroborated. 39:40 John 16:28: Jesus says, I came forth from where? 39:46 From the Father. In other words, He was sent by the Father, 39:51 and have come where? into the world. 39:55 And then He says again, I leave the world, and what? 40:00 Go to the Father. Where was the Father all the while 40:03 Jesus was on Earth? 40:04 The Father was in Heaven. 40:06 That's why He taught us to pray, Our Father, 40:08 which art everywhere. 40:09 No, He taught us to pray, Our Father, which art where? 40:14 which art in Heaven. 40:15 So are you understanding this, that the Father stayed in 40:17 Heaven. He sent Jesus, and then Jesus died, He resurrected, 40:21 and He what? He came back to His Father. 40:25 Brought by whom? By the angels. 40:28 Thank you. Now notice Revelation 12:5, Revelation 12:5. 40:34 In case you don't believe that Jesus was caught up by God 40:37 to God's throne; it's very clear here. 40:39 It says in Revelation 12:5, speaking about she who bore 40:45 Jesus. She bore a male child, who was to rule all nations 40:51 with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up to God, 40:58 and to His throne. 41:01 So where was Jesus caught up to after He died, 41:04 and resurrected? to the Father's throne. 41:07 So notice the sequence. 41:09 Jesus was sent by the Father, the Father stayed in Heaven. 41:13 Jesus came, He died, He resurrected, and then He was 41:20 brought by the angels back to the Father's throne, 41:23 and He sat next to His Father on the throne. 41:27 Is that sequence clear? 41:28 Well, let me ask you this, when Jesus comes to this world 41:32 a second time, is the Father coming with Him? 41:36 No. You say, No? No! 41:44 Just like the first time, the Father is going to be in Heaven. 41:49 I'm going to prove it to you in a moment from scripture. 41:53 Now the Father's going to stay in Heaven, and He's going to 41:58 send Jesus with all of His what? with all of His Holy Angels. 42:02 And somebody says, but Pastor Bohr, what about that text 42:04 that says that Jesus will come in the glory of His Father? 42:07 Well, the fact is that Jesus is always in the glory 42:12 of His Father. Notice Hebrews 1:3. 42:16 It says that Jesus is the brightness of the Father's 42:19 glory, the express image of His person. 42:22 So Jesus always bears the glory of His Father. 42:26 Coming in the glory of His Father is different than saying 42:29 that He comes with His Father. 42:30 Are you with me or not? 42:31 Now let's read a very interesting text; Acts 3:19, 20. 42:37 Acts 3:19, 20. Here Peter is speaking after the 42:44 Day of Pentecost, and he says this: Repent therefore and be 42:49 converted that your sins may be blotted out. 42:53 I won't go into that right now. 42:56 That's not talking about forgiveness, because the Apostle 43:00 Peter has already talked about forgiveness, 43:02 or remission of sins in Acts 2:38; forgiveness of sins. 43:07 Blotting out of sins is different, 43:09 but I won't get into that. 43:10 Repent therefore and be converted that your sins 43:14 may be blotted out. Now notice this. 43:16 So that times of refreshing, that's the outpouring 43:20 of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. 43:22 And so the times of refreshing may come from the presence of 43:27 the Lord. Who is that Lord that is spoken of there? 43:31 from the presence of the Lord? 43:33 That's called the Father, because it continues saying, 43:36 From the presence of the Lord, and that He may, shall, 43:45 or may in the New King James. 43:48 So that He shall, or He may what? send Jesus Christ 43:55 who was preached to you before. 43:56 Is the Father going to send Jesus? Yes. 44:01 So if He sends Jesus, He is not coming with Jesus. 44:05 Well you say, Pastor, why do you go through all of this detour? 44:08 It's not a detour. It's background to understanding 44:12 these verses in 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 14. 44:17 Now let me just put it succinctly and simply. 44:20 Jesus was sent by the Father to this Earth. 44:23 He died, He resurrected, He was caught up by the angels, 44:30 and taken back to the Father's throne. 44:33 Is that the same thing that's going to happen with those 44:37 who died and resurrected? 44:39 Remember, even so, the Apostle Paul says; even so will happen 44:45 with God's people. You see, God's people also will die, 44:48 and they will what? And they will resurrect. 44:52 And who will be sent from Heaven? 44:56 Jesus along with what? all of the Holy Angels. 45:00 And God's people will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. 45:04 And then where will God's people be taken to? 45:07 They will be taken to the Father's house. 45:12 So let me ask you, is the Father bringing with Jesus, 45:15 all of those who went to sleep? 45:17 Of course He is. But, you see, it's not Jesus bringing the 45:23 sleeping saints down, it is Jesus bringing the sleeping 45:27 saints up! Are you with me? 45:30 I hope so. I see some of you with a puzzled look. 45:35 I don't know how I can make it any clearer. 45:38 Do you want me to repeat it again? 45:41 Not necessary? No? Yes? No? Maybe? No, it's clear. 45:48 Now you say, Pastor, is your interpretation really correct? 45:52 Well, let's continue reading the verses that come afterwards. 45:55 It's absolutely clear that this is not talking about Jesus 46:01 bringing with Him. It doesn't say that Jesus will bring with 46:03 Him. It says that God will bring with Jesus; to where He is. 46:09 Notice 1 Thessalonians 4:15. 46:25 Who goes to heaven first? 46:26 Those who went to sleep, those who died, or those who were 46:29 alive when Jesus comes? 46:30 Who goes to Heaven first? 46:32 Neither one of them goes first. 46:33 So much for the idea that when the dead died, 46:36 they went to be with the Lord, because the Apostle Paul says, 46:39 no they didn't. They go together with those who are alive 46:42 when Jesus comes. Notice verse 16: 46:49 Is He coming again? What's He coming for the second time? 46:55 Ah, He's coming to pick up His people and bring them with Him 47:00 where? to the Father's house. So it says: 47:14 Now notice, the dead in Christ will rise first. 47:23 How many groups? Two groups. 47:36 So He comes down and we go what? And we go up, 47:41 and we meet Him in the air. 47:43 And then what happens after we meet Him in the air? 47:45 We go further up to the Father's house. Jesus said: 48:00 That is in the Father's house. 48:07 That is in the Father's house. 48:16 So this text is not saying at all what Christians think 48:20 it's saying. You see, they don't read carefully what scripture is 48:24 saying. They don't read the context. 48:27 They just interpret scripture in the light of the traditions 48:32 that they have received repeatedly, over and over again. 48:36 They do it with the story of the rich man and Lazarus. 48:38 They say, yes, he went immediately after death, 48:40 and he was talking down there when he was burning. 48:44 Interesting! They say the thief on the cross; that very day he 48:48 went with Jesus to Paradise. 48:50 We notice that Jesus did not go to Paradise that very day. 48:54 He went to the grave. 48:55 The thief didn't go to Paradise either because he wasn't dead. 48:59 And the people say, what about the witch of En Dor? 49:04 You know, didn't the witch of En Dor bring Samuel before Saul? 49:08 We studied; no, there's no way when you look at the story, 49:11 that good Samuel, who, by the way, is going to live again 49:15 at the resurrection, according to Hebrews 11, who would appear 49:18 to wicked Saul and say, hey, Saul, tomorrow you're going 49:22 to be in the same place where I'm at. 49:24 Be real! When we read that story how can we come to conclusions 49:29 like that? The trouble is we trust our religious teachers. 49:33 We accept it as gospel truth. 49:36 But God is not going to ask us, what did your pastor believe? 49:40 What did your priest believe? 49:41 He's going to say, did you have a Bible, and did you read it? 49:44 Did you study it? 49:45 He's not going to accept any excuses from us, 49:49 saying oh no, my pastor told me, or my priest told me. 49:52 Jesus says He's going to say, did you have a Bible, yes or no? 49:56 There'll be no excuse in that day. 49:59 The uniform concept of the Apostle Paul, and I'm going to 50:06 mention three passages. 50:07 We've looked at two of them. 50:09 And in our next lecture we're going to look at the third. 50:12 We'll go through this quickly. 50:14 2 Corinthians 5, the Apostle Paul speaks about three options: 50:19 being alive, being naked... 50:23 We'll deal with this in our next lecture. 50:25 ...which means being dead, and in the third place, 50:30 being translated. In 1 Thessalonians 4 the Apostle 50:36 Paul also speaks of us being alive, going to sleep, 50:41 and being translated. 50:44 In Philippians 1 the Apostle Paul says living in the flesh 50:51 is more productive of fruit, because I can preach the gospel. 50:55 He says, but if I die, I know that I will go to heaven. 51:01 But it would be much better if I could be what? 51:04 If I could be translated. 51:07 Now let's go to one last passage before we finish 51:11 this study. 2 Timothy 4:6-8. 51:15 The Apostle Paul is in the Mamertine Prison 51:18 for the second time. 51:19 This is his second and last imprisonment. 51:21 He's about to be beheaded. 51:23 Now I want you to notice here, when it is that the Apostle Paul 51:27 expected to receive his crown. 51:29 It's not at the moment of death that he expected to receive 51:33 his reward. It will be at the moment when Jesus comes. 51:37 2 Timothy 4:6. Here the Apostle Paul says: 51:50 He's talking about his departure from the land of the living. 51:57 He says: 52:08 In other words, there's stored up for me. 52:18 Immediately after my death. 52:20 No, that's not what it says. 52:22 That's the way the Christians interpret it. It says: 52:32 What day is that, on that day? 52:36 The day when Jesus comes. That's right. 52:50 Uh-uh. All those who have taught His appearing? 52:55 All those who have preached His appearing? 53:00 Uh-uh. It's not enough to believe it, or to teach it, 53:05 or to preach it. The Apostle Paul says that there's a crown 53:10 prepared for all those who have what? 53:13 who have loved His appearing. 53:17 When is it that Jesus is going to give the crown 53:19 to those who have overcome? 53:21 It is not at the moment of death that we receive our reward. 53:27 It's not at the moment of death that Jesus 53:30 receives us into glory. 53:31 It is on that day when Jesus gives the crown to Saul 53:37 of Tarsus, who became the Apostle Paul, that He will give 53:41 that crown to everyone who has received Jesus 53:45 as Savior and Lord. 53:47 This is the glorious hope of the Church, folks. 53:51 1 John 3:2, 1 John 3:2. 53:57 Oh, what a beautiful promise! 54:18 And then in the very next verse the Apostle John says, 54:23 everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself; 54:29 even as He is pure. 54:33 You see, by contemplating Jesus every day, we become like Him. 54:39 Beholding as in a mirror without a veil the glory of the Lord, 54:45 we are being changed from glory to glory into the same likeness. 54:50 And it's not at the moment of death that we're going to be 54:55 with Him. At death we go to the grave; we sleep, we rest. 55:00 But the next wakeful moment, the next instant, 55:04 we will hear the voice of Jesus, our Savior and Lord, 55:09 calling us from the grave. 55:10 And when we wake up, if we should die before Jesus comes, 55:14 it will be like no time has passed from the time we died 55:18 till our next thinking moment. 55:20 So there is a certain sense in which the moment a person dies, 55:24 at the very next moment, they're going to be with the Lord. 55:27 We know that there's a period that transpires between death 55:31 and the moment of the resurrection, 55:33 but the dead person doesn't know. 55:35 You see, for the dead person, he dies now, and his next thinking 55:39 moment is hearing the voice of Jesus. 55:41 There was no separation for the person who was dead. 55:44 Isn't that a marvelous thought, that there is no separation 55:48 for those who are in Christ Jesus? 55:51 But then the Apostle Paul ends this passage by expressing these 55:57 words. See he loved people. 55:59 He loved souls. And so he says, you know, to die would be gain, 56:04 to live in the flesh would bear fruit, to be translated would be 56:09 far better, but then he says in verse 24: 56:16 That is to remain in my corruptible, mortal body. 56:25 How unselfish! He says, you know, I'd love to depart 56:31 and be with the Lord. 56:32 To die would be gain. 56:33 I would rest from my labors, and Jesus would come to call me 56:37 forth from the grave, but he says, it's really more necessary 56:42 for your sake for me to remain, because I still have to preach 56:46 the gospel. I still have to proclaim the message 56:50 to the world. I still have to harvest much fruit for the Lord 56:55 as a result of preaching the gospel. 56:57 So the Apostle Paul says, though to die would be gain, 57:01 though to the translated would be far better, 57:04 to stay in the flesh, in my present existence is more 57:09 needful to you. And we know that the Apostle Paul died. 57:14 He produced much fruit. 57:17 His crown will have many stars. 57:18 The question is, are we so close to Jesus 57:22 that when His voice calls, we shall also hear His voice, 57:27 and go to live with Him forever? |
Revised 2014-12-17