Music...
00:00:01.36\00:00:32.69
James: This is amazing...
00:00:32.73\00:00:34.06
this is amazing.
00:00:34.10\00:00:35.43
The only downside about this
is, ah, Pastor Ivor Myers...
00:00:35.46\00:00:41.17
but we are so glad
that we can get together
00:00:41.20\00:00:43.37
and continue our
study in the book of Daniel.
00:00:43.41\00:00:46.14
We've gone through
some incredible challenges
00:00:46.17\00:00:48.88
in the last few months.
00:00:48.91\00:00:50.25
We know that we left
off in Daniel chapter 7
00:00:50.28\00:00:53.92
and that our Viewers are eager
for us to finish this book,
00:00:53.95\00:00:57.89
Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel
10, Daniel 11... nnnnnn...
00:00:57.92\00:01:01.82
Daniel 12.
00:01:01.86\00:01:03.36
All: Laughter.
00:01:03.39\00:01:04.83
James: But we've
had a lot of hindrances
00:01:04.86\00:01:06.96
and we're living
in amazing times.
00:01:07.00\00:01:09.10
Things are
happening in the world today
00:01:09.13\00:01:11.87
that are unprecedented
00:01:11.90\00:01:13.23
and I think that perhaps,
we could look at it this way.
00:01:13.30\00:01:16.54
The delay in getting the
rest of this book finished
00:01:16.57\00:01:19.77
is going to play in God's favor
00:01:19.81\00:01:22.11
because the prophecies that
we're going to be talking about
00:01:22.14\00:01:26.45
are going to be even
more present truth now
00:01:26.48\00:01:29.02
than they could have
been a few months ago.
00:01:29.05\00:01:31.49
We have some amazing insights
that God is revealing to us
00:01:31.55\00:01:35.56
in these last
chapters of Daniel.
00:01:35.59\00:01:37.53
So, we're going to look at that,
00:01:37.56\00:01:39.39
we're going to pick up
in Daniel chapter 8 today
00:01:39.43\00:01:41.50
and we're going to
continue through...
00:01:41.53\00:01:43.33
we're going to finish this up...
00:01:43.37\00:01:44.70
we're going to make
sure we finish this up
00:01:44.73\00:01:46.37
through Daniel chapter 12
00:01:46.43\00:01:48.70
and I'm glad that
we're all here so to speak,
00:01:48.74\00:01:52.37
right... that's the good news
00:01:52.41\00:01:54.51
and that we're going to be
able to just ask God to guide us
00:01:54.54\00:01:59.98
and to look at these
verses and these chapters
00:02:00.02\00:02:02.78
with the eyes of heaven
in the time in which we live.
00:02:02.82\00:02:06.05
So, we're going to
begin with a word of prayer,
00:02:06.09\00:02:08.99
Jason, can I ask
you to pray for us
00:02:09.02\00:02:10.36
and then we're going
to jump right in to our...
00:02:10.39\00:02:12.23
to our Scripture
here in Daniel chapter 8.
00:02:12.29\00:02:14.30
Jason: All right, let's pray,
00:02:14.33\00:02:15.66
"Dear Heavenly Father,
00:02:15.70\00:02:17.03
we thank you so much for
the wonderful opportunity
00:02:17.07\00:02:19.73
that we have to study Your Word
00:02:19.77\00:02:21.10
and Lord, we just ask that
You would send your Holy Spirit
00:02:21.14\00:02:23.51
to lead and guide
us into all truth.
00:02:23.54\00:02:25.57
Help us to retain
what we're studying
00:02:25.61\00:02:27.54
and please be with
the Viewers as well
00:02:27.58\00:02:29.44
and help them to
learn a lot from this too,
00:02:29.48\00:02:32.78
in Jesus' name we pray, amen. "
00:02:32.81\00:02:34.15
All: Amen.
00:02:34.18\00:02:35.65
James: All right, let's
just start with verse 1,
00:02:35.68\00:02:38.35
Yvonne, would you be
willing to just read us verse 1,
00:02:38.39\00:02:42.16
just the first
verse... no more than that...
00:02:42.19\00:02:44.23
just the first verse.
00:02:44.26\00:02:45.59
Yvonne: Sure, "In the third year
of the reign of King Belshazzar
00:02:45.63\00:02:50.47
a vision appeared to
me... to me, Daniel...
00:02:50.50\00:02:53.70
after the one that
appeared to me the first time. "
00:02:53.74\00:02:56.57
James: Okay, so,
just pausing right there
00:02:56.60\00:02:58.94
so that we can
kind of recalibrate...
00:02:58.97\00:03:01.28
we left off in Daniel 7...
00:03:01.31\00:03:03.71
Daniel 7 was a vision
that was given to Daniel
00:03:03.75\00:03:07.48
in the first year of Belshazzar.
00:03:07.52\00:03:09.02
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:03:09.05\00:03:10.39
James: Okay, so, Daniel 7
was given in the first year
00:03:10.42\00:03:12.45
of Belshazzar,
00:03:12.49\00:03:13.82
now, we have Daniel 8
given in the third year
00:03:13.86\00:03:16.93
okay, so the first
year and the third year.
00:03:16.96\00:03:19.63
Now, there's
something significant about that
00:03:19.66\00:03:21.96
that we just want to
mention here and that is...
00:03:22.03\00:03:24.27
is that this vision is
given to Daniel... both visions
00:03:24.30\00:03:29.90
when Babylon is still a power
that is in control of the world.
00:03:29.94\00:03:34.81
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:03:34.84\00:03:36.18
James: Belshazzar is the
grandson of Nebuchadnezzar
00:03:36.21\00:03:38.48
but in this vision in chapter
8, Babylon isn't mentioned.
00:03:38.51\00:03:42.88
We're going to
start with Medo-Persia
00:03:42.92\00:03:44.42
and then go to
Greece and then go to Rome
00:03:44.45\00:03:45.85
but Babylon isn't mentioned
so we need to think about this,
00:03:45.89\00:03:49.56
God is actually
speaking through Daniel.
00:03:49.59\00:03:51.36
See, when we read
Daniel 8 we think,
00:03:51.39\00:03:53.09
"Oh, Daniel 8...
that's after Daniel 5...
00:03:53.13\00:03:55.90
that's after Belshazzar had that
vision of the hand that wrote,
00:03:55.93\00:04:00.70
"MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN"
00:04:00.74\00:04:02.07
that's after Babylon fell...
00:04:02.10\00:04:03.44
no, actually it isn't,
00:04:03.47\00:04:04.81
it's after... in sequence...
00:04:04.84\00:04:06.57
in the book
sequence... Daniel 8 is after
00:04:06.61\00:04:08.91
but the vision was
actually given before.
00:04:08.94\00:04:10.71
Yvonne: Ah... Jason: Hmmm...
00:04:10.75\00:04:12.25
James: Which is
really interesting
00:04:12.31\00:04:13.65
because it kind of enlightens us
00:04:13.68\00:04:15.02
when we think about
Daniel coming into that feast
00:04:15.05\00:04:18.39
and reading that writing
and making that announcement,
00:04:18.42\00:04:21.22
he'd already had this vision
00:04:21.26\00:04:22.59
and this vision had already...
00:04:22.62\00:04:25.33
in Daniel's mind...
sealed Babylon's fate.
00:04:25.36\00:04:28.00
He already knew that Babylon
wasn't part of the future,
00:04:28.03\00:04:30.93
does that make sense?
Jason: Yeah... Yvonne: Hmmm.
00:04:30.97\00:04:32.30
James: He already knew that...
00:04:32.33\00:04:33.67
it was... it was
really clear to him.
00:04:33.70\00:04:35.04
Jason: Yeah,
right. Yvonne: Yeah.
00:04:35.07\00:04:36.40
James: So, it's really
important for us to see that.
00:04:36.44\00:04:37.77
Sometimes when we
read through Daniel,
00:04:37.81\00:04:39.14
we kind of read through
and we don't make a connection
00:04:39.17\00:04:41.74
between the actual
timing of some of these visions.
00:04:41.78\00:04:44.21
We're going to see the
same thing when we get to Daniel
00:04:44.25\00:04:46.61
chapter 9... no... chapter 10...
00:04:46.65\00:04:50.02
no chapter 9... 10? 9?
00:04:50.05\00:04:51.89
Ivor: Chapter 9... chapter 11...
00:04:51.92\00:04:53.46
James: Yes, same thing...
00:04:53.49\00:04:54.82
it's really important for
us to make the connections
00:04:54.86\00:04:57.49
as to where they are in
the context of experience.
00:04:57.53\00:05:00.13
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:05:00.16\00:05:01.50
James: Ah, so, that's the
first part we want to look at.
00:05:01.53\00:05:04.83
Now, we want to move
into the second verse,
00:05:04.87\00:05:08.30
Jason, could you
read that for us?
00:05:08.34\00:05:10.27
Daniel chapter 8 verse 2.
00:05:10.31\00:05:12.17
Jason: "I saw in the vision,
00:05:12.21\00:05:14.01
and it so happened
while I was looking,
00:05:14.04\00:05:17.78
that I was in
Shushan, the citadel,
00:05:17.81\00:05:20.62
which is in the
province of Elam;
00:05:20.68\00:05:23.42
and I saw in the vision that
I was by the River Ulai...?"
00:05:23.45\00:05:27.92
James: That's Ulai,
yeah, keep reading for us.
00:05:27.96\00:05:30.69
Jason: Okay. "Then I
lifted my eyes and saw,
00:05:30.73\00:05:33.43
and there,
standing beside the river,
00:05:33.46\00:05:36.30
was a ram which had two horns,
00:05:36.33\00:05:38.37
and the two horns were high;
00:05:38.43\00:05:40.40
but one was
higher than the other,
00:05:40.44\00:05:42.34
and the higher one came up last.
00:05:42.40\00:05:44.24
I saw the ram pushing westward,
northward, and southward,
00:05:44.27\00:05:48.74
so that no animal
could withstand him;
00:05:48.78\00:05:51.91
nor was there any that
could deliver from his hand,
00:05:51.95\00:05:55.98
but he did according to
his will and became great.
00:05:56.02\00:06:00.06
And as I was considering,
00:06:00.09\00:06:02.29
suddenly a male
goat came from the west,
00:06:02.32\00:06:04.89
across the surface
of the whole earth,
00:06:04.93\00:06:07.40
without touching the ground;
00:06:07.46\00:06:08.80
and the goat had a
notable horn between his eyes.
00:06:08.83\00:06:12.40
Then he came to the
ram that had two horns,
00:06:12.43\00:06:15.47
which I had seen
standing beside the river,
00:06:15.50\00:06:17.91
and ran at him
with furious power.
00:06:17.94\00:06:20.71
And I saw him
confronting the ram;
00:06:20.74\00:06:23.35
he was moved
with rage against him,
00:06:23.38\00:06:25.91
attacked the ram
and broke his two horns.
00:06:25.95\00:06:29.08
There was no power in
the ram to withstand him,
00:06:29.12\00:06:31.95
but he cast him down to
the ground and trampled him;
00:06:31.99\00:06:34.82
and there was no one that could
deliver the ram from his hand.
00:06:34.86\00:06:38.46
Therefore the male
goat grew very great;
00:06:38.49\00:06:43.20
but when he became strong,
the large horn was broken,
00:06:43.23\00:06:46.67
and in place of it
00:06:46.74\00:06:48.07
four notable ones came up
toward the four winds of heaven.
00:06:48.10\00:06:51.44
And out of one of
them came a little horn
00:06:51.47\00:06:54.38
which grew exceedingly
great toward the south,
00:06:54.41\00:06:57.08
toward the east, and
toward the Glorious Land.
00:06:57.15\00:06:59.78
And it grew up to
the host of heaven;
00:06:59.81\00:07:02.58
and it cast
down some of the host
00:07:02.62\00:07:05.35
and some of the stars to
the ground, and trampled them.
00:07:05.39\00:07:08.69
He even exalted himself as
high as the Prince of the host;
00:07:08.72\00:07:12.03
and by him the daily
sacrifices were taken away,
00:07:12.06\00:07:15.80
and the place of His
sanctuary was cast down.
00:07:15.83\00:07:19.53
Because of transgression,
00:07:19.57\00:07:21.60
an army was
given over to the horn
00:07:21.64\00:07:23.71
to oppose the daily sacrifices;
00:07:23.77\00:07:25.77
and he cast truth
down to the ground.
00:07:25.84\00:07:28.48
He did all this and prospered.
00:07:28.51\00:07:31.08
Then I heard a
holy one speaking;
00:07:31.11\00:07:33.62
and another holy one
said to that certain one
00:07:33.65\00:07:36.45
who was speaking, "How
long will the vision be,
00:07:36.48\00:07:39.25
concerning the daily sacrifices
00:07:39.29\00:07:41.12
and the
transgression of desolation,
00:07:41.16\00:07:43.02
the giving of both the sanctuary
00:07:43.09\00:07:45.79
and the host to be
trampled underfoot?"
00:07:45.83\00:07:48.03
And he said to me,
00:07:48.06\00:07:50.03
"For two thousand
three hundred days;
00:07:50.07\00:07:52.43
then the sanctuary
shall be cleansed. "
00:07:52.47\00:07:54.80
All right, let's
stop right there.
00:07:54.87\00:07:56.20
So, this is basically the vision
right here that Daniel has...
00:07:56.24\00:08:00.38
the vision of Daniel 8...
00:08:00.41\00:08:01.94
what's going to follow now
00:08:01.98\00:08:03.41
in verses 15... all the way
through the end of the chapter
00:08:03.45\00:08:06.61
is an
understanding of the vision.
00:08:06.65\00:08:09.48
The vision is given and
then a man is commanded...
00:08:09.52\00:08:12.49
an angel is commanded...
a messenger is commanded
00:08:12.52\00:08:15.46
to give Daniel
understanding of the vision
00:08:15.52\00:08:17.16
because it's a difficult one
00:08:17.23\00:08:18.76
and I really love
this because we need help
00:08:18.79\00:08:23.30
and God is always
willing to give us help.
00:08:23.37\00:08:26.13
Daniel was given direct
help right after he was...
00:08:26.17\00:08:30.24
was shown this vision
00:08:30.27\00:08:31.61
and we can have the
same help from heaven
00:08:31.64\00:08:33.88
whenever we
read the Word of God.
00:08:33.94\00:08:36.14
All we have to do is
pray and ask the Holy Spirit
00:08:36.18\00:08:37.95
to guide our minds
00:08:37.98\00:08:39.38
and God will actually
bring us understanding.
00:08:39.41\00:08:41.52
Jason: Hmmm...
hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:08:41.55\00:08:42.88
James: And so, Daniel
asks for this understanding
00:08:42.92\00:08:44.39
and immediately
there's a response
00:08:44.42\00:08:47.02
but I want us to go back now
00:08:47.06\00:08:48.39
and just take a
look at this vision
00:08:48.42\00:08:49.89
and see what we
can glean from it
00:08:49.92\00:08:51.79
before we go into
the interpretation.
00:08:51.83\00:08:53.63
First of all, in verse 1,
00:08:53.66\00:08:55.70
he said unto me... or...
00:08:55.73\00:08:57.73
"In the third year of
the reign of king Belshazzar
00:08:57.77\00:09:00.00
a vision appeared unto
me, even unto me Daniel,
00:09:00.04\00:09:02.24
after that which appeared
unto me in the first... "
00:09:02.27\00:09:04.01
now, "at the first... "
00:09:04.04\00:09:05.37
there's two ways that
you can interpret this phrase
00:09:05.41\00:09:07.18
"after that"
00:09:07.21\00:09:08.98
it could be "after in
time... " which is obvious
00:09:09.01\00:09:12.31
because it's the
third year of Belshazzar
00:09:12.35\00:09:14.15
and the other vision was
the first year of Belshazzar
00:09:14.18\00:09:16.22
or it could be
"after in kind... "
00:09:16.25\00:09:18.25
just like the vision
that I saw earlier...
00:09:18.29\00:09:21.96
it was very much like
the vision I saw earlier.
00:09:21.99\00:09:23.43
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:09:23.46\00:09:24.79
James: And we know
this is going to be the case
00:09:24.83\00:09:26.19
because even though
the earlier vision was
00:09:26.23\00:09:29.73
four beasts that were different
than the beast in this vision
00:09:29.76\00:09:32.43
and the one before
that that Nebuchadnezzar had
00:09:32.47\00:09:34.44
was an image,
00:09:34.47\00:09:35.80
we know that this is
following the same tract
00:09:35.84\00:09:39.04
of repeat-and-enlarge prophecy
00:09:39.07\00:09:40.88
because we're actually
told in the interpretation...
00:09:40.91\00:09:44.11
and let's just
jump there for a second,
00:09:44.15\00:09:46.21
we're actually told
who these animals...
00:09:46.25\00:09:48.25
these first two
animals represent.
00:09:48.28\00:09:49.62
Jason, read for us
verses 21 and... or 20 and 21.
00:09:49.65\00:09:58.69
Jason: Okay, "The
ram which you saw,
00:09:58.73\00:10:00.83
having the two horns...
00:10:00.86\00:10:02.20
they are the kings
of Media and Persia.
00:10:02.23\00:10:05.60
And the male goat is
the kingdom of Greece.
00:10:05.63\00:10:09.10
The large horn that is between
its eyes is the first king. "
00:10:09.14\00:10:13.54
James: Okay, so going back now,
you remember in Daniel chapter 2
00:10:13.58\00:10:17.95
we have Babylon,
Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.
00:10:18.01\00:10:19.65
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:10:19.71\00:10:21.05
James: In Daniel 7, we
have Babylon, Medo-Persia,
00:10:21.08\00:10:22.42
Greece and Rome.
00:10:22.45\00:10:23.85
Now, we have
Medo-Persia and Greece.
00:10:23.89\00:10:26.55
Jason: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:10:26.59\00:10:27.92
James: So, we're following
the same basic track of history.
00:10:27.96\00:10:31.23
Babylon is gone
because as we mentioned earlier
00:10:31.26\00:10:33.73
Daniel was shown
the demise of Babylon
00:10:33.76\00:10:36.16
which took place
in Daniel chapter 5.
00:10:36.20\00:10:38.27
Jason: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:10:38.30\00:10:39.63
James: Medo-Persia then is
the first king that's mentioned,
00:10:39.67\00:10:41.47
then Greece... and then
there's this fourth kingdom
00:10:41.50\00:10:43.71
that's going to follow
00:10:43.74\00:10:45.14
that isn't described by name
00:10:45.17\00:10:47.21
but it's
described by characteristic
00:10:47.24\00:10:49.31
and we're going to look at
some of those characteristics
00:10:49.34\00:10:51.51
because basically
in Daniel chapter 8,
00:10:51.55\00:10:54.68
you have a very little
time given to Medo-Persia,
00:10:54.72\00:10:56.92
kind of to get our footing
00:10:56.95\00:10:58.29
and then, Greece, you know,
gives us more understanding
00:10:58.32\00:11:00.99
of where we are
00:11:01.02\00:11:02.36
and then the rest of the vision
is all about that fourth power,
00:11:02.39\00:11:05.26
I mean, the whole thing is...
00:11:05.29\00:11:07.20
is dedicated to that
fourth power and what he does.
00:11:07.23\00:11:10.57
Something really interesting
that we see here, Ivor,
00:11:10.60\00:11:13.44
and I just wanted you to
comment on this a little bit,
00:11:13.47\00:11:16.27
in Daniel 7, we had an
attack on the law of God.
00:11:16.30\00:11:20.14
In Daniel 8, we have an
attack on the sanctuary of God.
00:11:20.18\00:11:25.51
Do you see that in these verses?
00:11:25.55\00:11:27.28
I just think
it's... it's significant
00:11:27.32\00:11:29.75
that we're seeing a
two-pronged attack against God
00:11:29.78\00:11:33.29
in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8.
00:11:33.36\00:11:35.06
Ivor: Yeah and I
will add this here,
00:11:35.09\00:11:38.69
you know, at the
end of this chapter,
00:11:38.73\00:11:42.26
we see that Daniel
doesn't understand the vision
00:11:42.30\00:11:44.60
and that's very
significant because
00:11:44.63\00:11:49.07
remember in Daniel's mind,
00:11:49.10\00:11:53.81
you have this 70-year prophecy
00:11:53.84\00:11:58.48
that's about to
come to completion,
00:11:58.51\00:12:00.42
right, where the
children of Israel
00:12:00.45\00:12:02.32
have been in captivity
00:12:02.35\00:12:05.69
and God said,
"You'll be there 70 years
00:12:05.72\00:12:09.26
and then I'm going to
bring you back... " right?
00:12:09.29\00:12:11.66
James: Right.
00:12:11.69\00:12:13.29
Ivor: "And you'll be
restored to your city
00:12:13.33\00:12:15.00
and there's going
to be the temple. "
00:12:15.03\00:12:17.93
When Daniel is
seeing this vision...
00:12:17.97\00:12:20.77
and remember from
Daniel 2 he sees four kingdoms,
00:12:20.80\00:12:25.01
Babylon,
Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome.
00:12:25.04\00:12:26.81
He knows that these kingdoms
aren't going to rise and fall
00:12:26.84\00:12:30.21
in like, five
years... ten years... right?
00:12:30.25\00:12:32.61
There's no way four
kingdoms are going to do that.
00:12:32.65\00:12:36.05
Here in Daniel 8, he's
seeing these kingdoms of...
00:12:36.08\00:12:39.45
of Medo-Persia and then Greece
00:12:39.52\00:12:42.42
and then something
about the sanctuary...
00:12:42.46\00:12:44.99
James: Hmmm...
00:12:45.03\00:12:46.73
Ivor: And you can
imagine in his mind,
00:12:46.76\00:12:48.83
the sanctuary
being cleansed, like,
00:12:48.86\00:12:50.90
"so, we're talking
about after Greece...
00:12:50.93\00:12:54.54
we're going to be dealing
with the sanctuary, like... "
00:12:54.57\00:12:56.30
he's thinking the sanctuary is
going to be rebuilt pretty soon.
00:12:56.37\00:13:00.31
James: Right. Ivor: Right.
00:13:00.34\00:13:01.68
James: Because the
70 years are ending.
00:13:01.71\00:13:03.61
Ivor: Yeah, 70
years are ending, right,
00:13:03.65\00:13:05.58
and so, you can
understand why he's confused
00:13:05.61\00:13:08.62
because he's
like, "Wait a minute,
00:13:08.65\00:13:09.98
Greece... you know, this other
kingdom that's going to rise
00:13:10.02\00:13:13.86
and then, this Little
Horn that rises after that...
00:13:13.92\00:13:16.46
and what is
going to... this is...
00:13:16.52\00:13:18.59
this must be confusing to him.
00:13:18.63\00:13:20.66
So, number one, this
is significant because
00:13:20.70\00:13:25.50
what we're going
to see and... and...
00:13:25.53\00:13:28.24
and I'm going to
mention this here,
00:13:28.27\00:13:31.01
there is something very specific
00:13:31.04\00:13:33.27
about the prophecies of Daniel.
00:13:33.31\00:13:35.48
If you read all the other
prophets in the Old Testament,
00:13:35.51\00:13:39.68
Ezekiel... Isaiah... Jeremiah...
all the Minor Prophets...
00:13:39.71\00:13:43.85
Micha... Nahum... and Haggai...
00:13:43.89\00:13:48.06
you'll see something very
specific with these prophets,
00:13:48.09\00:13:52.29
right? What you're
going to see is that
00:13:52.36\00:13:54.23
God was speaking to the prophet
to give the people a message,
00:13:54.26\00:14:00.17
"Go unto Israel
and say unto them...
00:14:00.20\00:14:02.97
say unto Israel...
say unto Israel... "
00:14:03.00\00:14:05.84
the book of
Daniel doesn't do that.
00:14:05.87\00:14:08.64
In fact, in the end
of the book of Daniel,
00:14:08.68\00:14:12.21
you see God telling
Daniel to seal up the book
00:14:12.25\00:14:15.75
because it is for
the time of the end.
00:14:15.78\00:14:19.42
James: Yeah... yeah.
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:14:19.45\00:14:21.02
Ivor: This is... this is a very
important distinguishing point
00:14:21.06\00:14:24.59
because, listen, a
lot of these prophecies
00:14:24.63\00:14:27.00
in the book of
Isaiah and Jeremiah,
00:14:27.03\00:14:28.96
people will take those
prophecies and apply them
00:14:29.00\00:14:31.33
to things that are
to happen in the future,
00:14:31.40\00:14:33.80
when they have
already been fulfilled.
00:14:33.84\00:14:35.80
James: Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:14:35.84\00:14:37.17
Ivor: They were speaking
to the people of that time...
00:14:37.21\00:14:39.11
the book of Daniel
purposely catapults us
00:14:39.14\00:14:43.68
into events that are
supposed to happen in the future
00:14:43.71\00:14:47.72
and this is one of the reasons
why Daniel is so confused
00:14:47.75\00:14:51.42
because he's thinking...
00:14:51.45\00:14:52.79
sanctuary should be
rebuilt sometime soon here,
00:14:52.82\00:14:56.56
you know, he's
thinking "should be cleansed"
00:14:56.59\00:15:00.26
or purified or
restored sometime soon here
00:15:00.30\00:15:03.87
but now I'm seeing this
vision about a sanctuary...
00:15:03.90\00:15:07.80
the sanctuary being
restored or purified or cleansed
00:15:07.84\00:15:11.67
after... sometime
after, like, these empires?"
00:15:11.71\00:15:14.61
He's confused about this.
00:15:14.64\00:15:16.85
James: Gotcha...
00:15:16.91\00:15:18.28
in fact, he's seeing the
sanctuary being cast down
00:15:18.31\00:15:21.18
after the Grecian
power has come and gone.
00:15:21.22\00:15:25.49
he's like, "Well, the
sanctuary isn't even up yet,
00:15:25.55\00:15:27.72
how can it be cast down?"
00:15:27.76\00:15:29.09
Ivor: "Yeah, how
can it be cast down?
00:15:29.12\00:15:30.73
The sanctuary is
cast down right now... "
00:15:30.76\00:15:32.13
James: Right.
00:15:32.16\00:15:33.50
Ivor: "We're in Babylon...
sanctuary is destroyed... "
00:15:33.53\00:15:35.73
so, he's looking at this vision
00:15:35.76\00:15:37.97
and in his mind, he is
thinking of the "now... "
00:15:38.00\00:15:41.37
James: Yeah... yeah.
00:15:41.40\00:15:42.80
Ivor: This is
crucial to understand,
00:15:42.84\00:15:44.44
he's thinking of the "now"
00:15:44.47\00:15:46.07
not realizing
that God is showing him
00:15:46.11\00:15:49.98
things to come that
are beyond his time.
00:15:50.05\00:15:53.85
James: Hmmm...
hmmm... Ivor: Right?
00:15:53.92\00:15:55.98
James: Really important.
00:15:56.02\00:15:57.39
Ivor: And this is where...
yeah, this is where Daniel 9
00:15:57.42\00:15:59.29
is going to come
in and even amplify
00:15:59.32\00:16:01.69
what's happening
in Daniel chapter 8
00:16:01.72\00:16:04.06
but I'll jump back
and share this as well.
00:16:04.09\00:16:06.33
In Daniel 2...
00:16:06.36\00:16:10.07
in Daniel 2, we have
Babylon, Medo-Persia,
00:16:10.10\00:16:14.40
Greece, Rome
00:16:14.44\00:16:15.80
and this Roman Empire
00:16:15.84\00:16:20.18
divides into ten kingdoms
00:16:20.21\00:16:24.51
and these ten
kingdoms have a "clay" element
00:16:24.55\00:16:29.25
that comes up among it
00:16:29.28\00:16:30.62
and I think we talked about this
00:16:30.65\00:16:31.99
in one of our last studies...
00:16:32.02\00:16:33.36
how the clay is symbolic
of a professed people of God.
00:16:33.39\00:16:37.89
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:16:37.93\00:16:39.26
Ivor: Right, you are
the potter, we are the clay.
00:16:39.29\00:16:41.63
Here's an element rising
up within the Roman Empire
00:16:41.66\00:16:46.17
that is a religious Power
00:16:46.20\00:16:48.67
claiming to
have God as its Maker
00:16:48.70\00:16:51.61
and yet it is
mingling with the iron.
00:16:51.64\00:16:53.74
James: Hmmm...
hmmm... Jason: Hmmm...
00:16:53.78\00:16:55.81
Ivor: It is
mingling with the world
00:16:55.84\00:16:57.85
in a way that is
not appealing to God...
00:16:57.91\00:17:00.68
that is not pleasing to God
00:17:00.72\00:17:02.05
and that's why the stone
is cut out without hands...
00:17:02.08\00:17:04.15
destroys the
image... not on the head...
00:17:04.19\00:17:06.02
not on the chest and arms
00:17:06.05\00:17:07.39
but on the feet of
iron mingled with clay.
00:17:07.42\00:17:10.73
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:10.76\00:17:12.09
Ivor: Quick object lesson...
00:17:12.13\00:17:14.13
believers should not
mingle with worldliness.
00:17:14.16\00:17:17.17
James: Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:17:17.20\00:17:18.53
Ivor: Right, so,
that's number one.
00:17:18.57\00:17:20.44
When we get to Daniel
7, we see the same thing
00:17:20.47\00:17:23.34
but now we have
the fourth beast...
00:17:23.37\00:17:27.14
this beast with iron teeth
00:17:27.18\00:17:29.04
paralleling the
legs of iron in Daniel 2
00:17:29.08\00:17:32.95
and it has ten horns
and then a Little Horn.
00:17:32.98\00:17:36.79
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:36.82\00:17:38.15
Ivor: Now, I want you
to notice that in Daniel 2,
00:17:38.19\00:17:40.32
there's only four kingdoms
00:17:40.36\00:17:44.33
which means the
toes of iron and the clay
00:17:44.36\00:17:47.26
are really an extension of the
fourth kingdom... which is Rome.
00:17:47.30\00:17:50.67
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:50.70\00:17:52.03
Ivor: So, what God is doing
is, He's using one symbol, Rome,
00:17:52.07\00:17:56.47
to apply to two
different powers.
00:17:56.50\00:17:59.74
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:59.77\00:18:01.11
Ivor: Pagan Rome... and
then this religious power
00:18:01.14\00:18:04.88
that comes out of Rome.
00:18:04.91\00:18:06.25
It's all the fourth kingdom.
00:18:06.28\00:18:07.78
James: Right. Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:18:07.82\00:18:09.52
Ivor: In Daniel 7,
you have the same thing.
00:18:09.55\00:18:11.52
This Little Horn which
parallels the clay of Daniel 2
00:18:11.55\00:18:16.49
that rises among the ten toes...
00:18:16.52\00:18:18.33
you have the Little Horn
rising among the ten horns
00:18:18.36\00:18:20.86
but remember this,
00:18:20.90\00:18:22.23
the Little Horn is on
the head of the fourth beast.
00:18:22.26\00:18:25.73
James: Right.
00:18:25.77\00:18:27.40
Ivor: So... so,
it's really one power.
00:18:27.44\00:18:29.80
James: It's part of
the fourth. Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:18:29.84\00:18:32.01
Ivor: It's part of
the fourth. James: Yeah.
00:18:32.04\00:18:33.78
Ivor: Right, so when we
identify this Little Horn
00:18:33.81\00:18:36.51
as rising some time after Rome
00:18:36.54\00:18:38.68
and I'm going somewhere
very important with this,
00:18:38.71\00:18:40.22
this Little Horn rises some
time after the fall of Rome.
00:18:40.25\00:18:44.05
James: Right.
00:18:44.09\00:18:45.92
Ivor: When we get to Daniel 8,
00:18:45.95\00:18:47.72
for a lot of people, this
Little Horn appears to come
00:18:47.79\00:18:53.46
out of Greece.
00:18:53.50\00:18:54.83
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:18:54.86\00:18:56.20
Ivor: It does not
come out of Greece.
00:18:56.23\00:18:58.50
James: Hmmm...
00:18:58.53\00:19:00.04
Ivor: It comes after
Greece. James: Hmmm...
00:19:00.07\00:19:02.24
Ivor: In fact, the Bible says,
00:19:02.30\00:19:04.74
"In the latter end
of their kingdom... "
00:19:04.77\00:19:06.94
in other words, when the
Grecian kingdom is declining
00:19:06.98\00:19:10.08
is when this
Little Horn is rising.
00:19:10.11\00:19:12.45
James: Right.
00:19:12.48\00:19:13.82
Ivor: Right, the
Little Horn is now one symbol
00:19:13.85\00:19:19.22
describing two powers...
00:19:19.25\00:19:22.12
we know that
Rome came after Greece
00:19:22.16\00:19:24.46
but if you look at the
description of the Little Horn
00:19:24.49\00:19:26.90
it matches the description
of the Little Horn in Daniel 7.
00:19:26.93\00:19:29.13
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:19:29.16\00:19:30.50
Ivor: Why do... why do we just
go through this whole thing?
00:19:30.53\00:19:33.37
Because it's this Little Horn
00:19:33.40\00:19:36.17
that rises
after the fall of Rome
00:19:36.20\00:19:39.47
that is
desecrating the sanctuary
00:19:39.51\00:19:42.74
which leads us to a
very important conclusion,
00:19:42.78\00:19:46.88
whatever the sanctuary
is that is being desecrated,
00:19:46.92\00:19:50.99
it cannot be the
literal temple in Jerusalem.
00:19:51.02\00:19:54.06
James: Hmmm...
00:19:54.09\00:19:55.42
Ivor: Because that
temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.
00:19:55.46\00:19:59.36
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:19:59.39\00:20:02.76
Ivor: It was
destroyed in the Roman Empire.
00:20:02.80\00:20:06.47
So, if the Little
Horn rises after Rome,
00:20:06.50\00:20:10.11
whatever
sanctuary it is attacking
00:20:10.14\00:20:12.67
must be something that is
not yet known or understood
00:20:12.71\00:20:18.35
to the Children of Israel.
00:20:18.38\00:20:19.71
James: Okay. Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:20:19.75\00:20:21.08
James: Good point...
it's a really good point.
00:20:21.12\00:20:23.18
Okay, let's get
back into our text,
00:20:23.22\00:20:25.59
just so that we
can kind of summarize
00:20:25.62\00:20:27.19
a little bit of
what you're saying here,
00:20:27.22\00:20:28.66
I want to get
back into our text...
00:20:28.69\00:20:30.03
we're starting with
verse 3 where we have the Ram
00:20:30.09\00:20:33.50
that is pictured
here with two horns...
00:20:33.53\00:20:37.57
and the two horns were high
00:20:37.60\00:20:39.57
but one was
higher than the other
00:20:39.63\00:20:41.24
and the higher came up last.
00:20:41.27\00:20:42.60
Do you remember this now as
we correlate this with the bear?
00:20:42.64\00:20:45.37
The bear was higher one side.
00:20:45.41\00:20:47.71
Yvonne: Yes.
00:20:47.74\00:20:49.08
James: The Medes and
Persians were connected
00:20:49.11\00:20:52.11
and the Persians
came up after the Medes
00:20:52.15\00:20:55.25
and became
stronger than the Medes
00:20:55.28\00:20:57.12
but they were one Power...
they were connected together.
00:20:57.15\00:20:59.15
That's being
depicted here in this verse
00:20:59.19\00:21:01.22
just like it was depicted
in the verse in Daniel 7.
00:21:01.29\00:21:03.39
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:21:03.43\00:21:04.76
James: And what's
happening in Daniel 7,
00:21:04.79\00:21:06.56
as Ivor is
bringing out in Daniel 8...
00:21:06.59\00:21:08.53
as Ivor's bringing out is
as we move through history,
00:21:08.56\00:21:11.63
there's more information...
there's more details
00:21:11.67\00:21:14.10
and that's what's... what's
taking place in Daniel chapter 8
00:21:14.14\00:21:17.11
we're getting more details
here that are going to help us
00:21:17.17\00:21:20.11
but it's really important
as you pointed out, Ivor,
00:21:20.14\00:21:23.38
that we don't
forget the past details
00:21:23.45\00:21:25.91
because the new details
add to those past details
00:21:25.98\00:21:28.95
and gives more
understanding of the prophecy
00:21:28.98\00:21:31.45
so, we know, for
example, as Ivor said,
00:21:31.49\00:21:34.56
the Little Horn is
part of the Roman Power
00:21:34.59\00:21:37.56
and so that... that Power
that desecrates the sanctuary...
00:21:37.63\00:21:41.36
that takes place
after Rome falls,
00:21:41.40\00:21:43.53
therefore, it can't be the
literal sanctuary in Jerusalem
00:21:43.57\00:21:46.10
which was destroyed in A.D. 70.
00:21:46.13\00:21:47.94
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:21:47.97\00:21:49.30
James: Okay, we also in the
context of this see in verse 4,
00:21:49.34\00:21:53.24
the ram pushing in all
these different directions...
00:21:53.27\00:21:56.28
he's pushing westward
and northward and southward,
00:21:56.34\00:21:59.98
okay, so, that indicates
the direction he is coming from,
00:22:00.02\00:22:04.19
okay, he's pushing northward...
and westward... and southward.
00:22:04.25\00:22:08.32
So, what direction was left out?
00:22:08.36\00:22:09.79
All: East.
00:22:09.82\00:22:11.66
James: East... so he's
coming from the East, right,
00:22:11.69\00:22:13.66
Medo-Persians
came from the East.
00:22:13.70\00:22:15.06
Now, if you go down
here a little further,
00:22:15.10\00:22:16.97
as he's considering the
horn, another horn comes up...
00:22:17.03\00:22:20.77
it says, "I was considering,
behold, a goat came... "
00:22:20.80\00:22:24.54
excuse me... "a
goat came up... "
00:22:24.57\00:22:26.07
and that wasn't a
horn that was a ram...
00:22:26.11\00:22:27.94
so, you've got a
ram and a goat...
00:22:27.98\00:22:29.31
verse 5, "the goat
came from the west... "
00:22:29.34\00:22:31.18
so, this is a
Power from the west...
00:22:31.21\00:22:33.58
the other Power is a
Power from the east...
00:22:33.62\00:22:35.25
these directions
are really important...
00:22:35.28\00:22:36.89
as you go down a little further,
00:22:36.95\00:22:39.02
he destroys Medo-Persia,
this is, of course, Greece
00:22:39.05\00:22:44.56
and Alexander the Great...
00:22:44.59\00:22:46.13
the notable horn
is Alexander the Great
00:22:46.16\00:22:48.26
and then it says in verse 8,
00:22:48.30\00:22:50.17
"Therefore the he
goat waxed very great:
00:22:50.20\00:22:51.87
and when he was strong,
the great horn was broken... "
00:22:51.93\00:22:54.80
Alexander conquered the
world in a very short time
00:22:54.84\00:22:57.37
and then he died.
00:22:57.41\00:22:58.74
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:22:58.77\00:23:00.11
James: And as he died,
his... his complete territory
00:23:00.14\00:23:04.58
was divided
eventually into four parts
00:23:04.61\00:23:07.12
and those four
parts are depicted here,
00:23:07.15\00:23:09.05
it says, "And
when he was strong,
00:23:09.08\00:23:10.49
the great horn was broken;
00:23:10.52\00:23:11.85
and for it came
up four notable ones
00:23:11.89\00:23:13.46
toward the four
winds of heaven. "
00:23:13.52\00:23:15.22
So, you've got four notable ones
00:23:15.26\00:23:16.76
toward the four winds of heaven.
00:23:16.79\00:23:18.23
North, South, East and West
00:23:18.29\00:23:20.20
and out of one of them...
out of those four directions
00:23:20.23\00:23:23.06
because, remember, we've
been talking about directions
00:23:23.10\00:23:25.90
all the way through here, we've
been talking about the east...
00:23:25.93\00:23:27.27
we've been
talking about the south...
00:23:27.30\00:23:28.64
we've been
talking about the west...
00:23:28.67\00:23:30.01
we've been
talking about the north...
00:23:30.04\00:23:31.37
coming from the
west... coming from the east...
00:23:31.41\00:23:32.74
so, keep it consistent...
out of one of them,
00:23:32.77\00:23:34.74
that is... one of
those four winds...
00:23:34.78\00:23:36.44
one of those directions,
00:23:36.51\00:23:37.85
came forth a Little Horn
which waxed exceedingly great
00:23:37.88\00:23:41.85
toward the
south... toward the east...
00:23:41.88\00:23:44.85
and toward the Pleasant
Land which is the west...
00:23:44.92\00:23:47.42
so, what
direction is he coming from
00:23:47.46\00:23:50.13
if he's going toward the
south, the east and the west?
00:23:50.16\00:23:51.49
All: North.
00:23:51.53\00:23:52.86
James: He's
coming from the north.
00:23:52.89\00:23:54.23
So, this is the
first time in Scripture
00:23:54.26\00:23:55.96
that we have an identification
of the king of the North.
00:23:56.00\00:23:58.77
Yvonne: Ohhh... Ivor: Yes.
00:23:58.80\00:24:00.50
James: The king of the North
is first identified in Daniel 8.
00:24:00.54\00:24:03.74
That will help us
when we get to Daniel 11
00:24:03.77\00:24:05.87
because in Daniel 11,
all this directional activity
00:24:05.91\00:24:09.08
and all of this
directional identification
00:24:09.11\00:24:11.11
is going to be amplified.
00:24:11.15\00:24:14.12
In Daniel 11, it's king of the
North... king of the South...
00:24:14.15\00:24:16.12
king of the
North... king of the South...
00:24:16.15\00:24:17.49
king of the
North, king of the South,
00:24:17.52\00:24:18.85
and people get lost in there
00:24:18.89\00:24:20.22
but if you start right here,
00:24:20.26\00:24:21.62
you're going to identify
the king of the North as Rome.
00:24:21.66\00:24:24.99
Rome is the
first time that we see
00:24:25.03\00:24:28.00
the king of the North
identified and it's in Daniel 8.
00:24:28.06\00:24:30.40
Jason: Hmmm...
00:24:30.43\00:24:31.77
James: Because he's
coming to the South...
00:24:31.80\00:24:33.13
he's going to the East...
00:24:33.17\00:24:34.50
he's going to the
Pleasant Land which is west
00:24:34.54\00:24:35.87
so the only direction he
can be coming from is the North
00:24:35.90\00:24:38.11
and Alexander's
kingdom was... was... was...
00:24:38.14\00:24:41.18
as it says here
in... in verse 8,
00:24:41.24\00:24:46.38
it was spread out
toward the four winds of heaven
00:24:46.41\00:24:52.75
or the four
corners of the earth...
00:24:52.79\00:24:54.12
the four directions of heaven.
00:24:54.16\00:24:55.49
So now, we look at
Rome in its first stages
00:24:55.52\00:24:59.66
and the very first stage
that we have is this pushing
00:24:59.69\00:25:03.40
toward these
different directions...
00:25:03.43\00:25:04.90
Rome continues to conquer
the world including Palestine...
00:25:04.93\00:25:08.14
including God's Glorious Land...
00:25:08.17\00:25:10.74
the Pleasant Land it's
called here in verse 9.
00:25:10.81\00:25:13.24
So, Rome lands in
Israel... in Judah
00:25:13.27\00:25:18.75
and then it says in verse 10,
00:25:18.78\00:25:20.78
"It waxed great, even
to the host of heaven;
00:25:20.82\00:25:24.45
and it cast some of the
host of the stars to the ground,
00:25:24.49\00:25:27.59
and stamped upon them. "
00:25:27.62\00:25:28.96
Now, what direction
is this Power going in?
00:25:28.99\00:25:31.39
Pause...
00:25:31.46\00:25:35.63
Jason: Don't all answer
at once, Pastor Myers...
00:25:35.66\00:25:38.43
All: Laughter
00:25:38.47\00:25:39.80
James: Now this
Power is going up, okay,
00:25:39.83\00:25:42.87
now this Power
is going up, right?
00:25:42.90\00:25:45.11
At first he was horizontal
but now he's going vertical,
00:25:45.14\00:25:48.84
now, he's actually...
and it's... you know...
00:25:48.88\00:25:50.41
we're thinking, "Well why
is... against heaven, really?"
00:25:50.45\00:25:52.95
Yes, he is going against heaven
00:25:52.98\00:25:55.28
so now, this is where we would
see a transition from Pagan Rome
00:25:55.35\00:25:59.35
to Papal Rome... this is where
that transition takes place.
00:25:59.42\00:26:02.19
We've seen that transition
in Daniel chapter 7, right,
00:26:02.22\00:26:05.09
we've seen that transition
a little bit in Daniel 2
00:26:05.13\00:26:07.93
with the... the
clay and the iron
00:26:07.96\00:26:10.07
but now it's... it's going
to be emphasized even more...
00:26:10.10\00:26:12.60
amplified if you will...
he's going toward heaven...
00:26:12.63\00:26:15.04
he is casting some of the host
and the stars to the ground...
00:26:15.07\00:26:18.27
he's stamping upon
them... that's persecution
00:26:18.31\00:26:20.14
verse 11, "He's
magnifying himself
00:26:20.18\00:26:22.71
to the Prince of the
host... taking the daily away...
00:26:22.74\00:26:26.68
and... and casting down
the place of His sanctuary... "
00:26:26.72\00:26:30.59
now, that can't be the sanctuary
in Jerusalem as we've noted
00:26:30.62\00:26:32.59
because this is after the
transition from Pagan Rome
00:26:32.62\00:26:36.02
to Papal Rome. Jason: Hmmm...
00:26:36.06\00:26:37.63
The sanctuary
that he is casting down
00:26:37.66\00:26:39.69
at least in intent and purpose
is God's heavenly sanctuary.
00:26:39.73\00:26:44.13
A host is given him
against the daily...
00:26:44.17\00:26:47.10
we're going to identify what
that is in our next Session,
00:26:47.14\00:26:49.80
"by reason of transgression
00:26:49.87\00:26:51.44
and it cast the
truth to the ground
00:26:51.47\00:26:53.31
and it
practiced and prospered. "
00:26:53.34\00:26:54.68
So, this is identifying
the Power of Papal Rome
00:26:54.71\00:27:00.32
as it transitions from
Pagan Rome in verses 9 and 10,
00:27:00.35\00:27:06.15
you have that
transition taking place there
00:27:06.19\00:27:07.72
and you've got a specific attack
against the heavenly sanctuary,
00:27:07.76\00:27:11.69
the heavenly host...
the Prince of the host
00:27:11.73\00:27:13.40
and the
Daily... whatever that is
00:27:13.43\00:27:15.33
and all of this is taking place
00:27:15.36\00:27:17.20
in the context
of Daniel chapter 8.
00:27:17.23\00:27:22.00
These are the... these
verses are identifying for us
00:27:22.04\00:27:24.17
in symbolic language...
00:27:24.21\00:27:26.11
the attack against the sanctuary
in heaven, Daniel chapter 8.
00:27:26.14\00:27:28.81
So, we're running
out of time right now,
00:27:28.84\00:27:30.71
we're going to come back
and we've really got to dissect,
00:27:30.75\00:27:32.38
we jumped ahead a little bit,
00:27:32.41\00:27:33.82
we're going to go back
and we're going to look...
00:27:33.85\00:27:35.42
go through these
verses point by point...
00:27:35.45\00:27:37.59
symbol by symbol
and really identify...
00:27:37.62\00:27:39.69
really dissect and identify
what's taking place here.
00:27:39.72\00:27:41.86
Does that sound good?
00:27:41.89\00:27:43.26
Jason: Sounds
good. Yvonne: It's great.
00:27:43.29\00:27:44.86
James: We're all out of
time... you know, time flies.
00:27:44.89\00:27:46.56
Yvonne: It does. James: Getting
into this... time just flies by.
00:27:46.59\00:27:48.66
Yvonne: It really does, yeah.
00:27:48.70\00:27:50.03
James: So, anyway, we're really
thankful that you could join us,
00:27:50.07\00:27:51.67
we're looking forward to
continuing to Daniel chapter 8
00:27:51.70\00:27:53.94
so, don't go away,
we will be back soon.
00:27:53.97\00:27:56.77