Music...
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James: Welcome back...
we are in Daniel chapter 7,
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we've covered
two sections so far.
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We started with 1 through
8 describing these beasts
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like, what are they?
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And we
identified them as kingdoms
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and then we looked at verses
9 all the way through 14...
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with a little
explanation... 15, 16, 17...
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and we've learned that this
is a continuation of Daniel 2.
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You've got Babylon
coming all the way through
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to the judgment
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and the time when
judgment is executed
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and then describes
these... these other kingdoms
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that's... whose
dominion was taken away
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but their lives were
continued for a short time
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and we identified that.
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It doesn't mean
that at the judgment...
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the one kingdom was destroyed
but the others continued...
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no, this is talking about
the history of those kingdoms
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that as their
dominion was taken away,
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their lives continued on...
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their culture...
their traditions...
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so, continued on in
the... in the succeeding kingdom
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and the succeeding kingdom,
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and the succeeding kingdom
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till we get to
the fourth kingdom
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and yet their lives are still
being prolonged in this culture,
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we talked about
the Medo-Persians...
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they make a law,
it can't be revoked
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infallibility... continues on...
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so, we need to... just needed
to make that differentiation
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and now we're going to go back
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and we're going to look at some
of the specific characteristics
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of these kingdoms, like,
the lion with eagle's wings
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and the wings are
plucked up... we touched that.
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What about the bear
lifted up on one side
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with the three ribs in its
mouth... what is all that about?
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So, let's start
with a word of prayer
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and we'll get right in.
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Yvonne: Sure... good...
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"Father God, we
thank you so very much
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that you brought us
together to study your Word
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and to learn and to share...
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so, we just pray that
Your Spirit will oversee,
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guide and direct us,
in Jesus' name, amen. "
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All: Amen.
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James: And I just
want to mention...
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one other thing we mentioned
that was really cool was
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that animals
represent countries.
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Yvonne: Hmmm...
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Even to this day,
animals represent countries.
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Yvonne: That's true.
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James: And so... pop
quiz we talked about China
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being represented by...
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Jason: Dragon.
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James: And we talked about
England being represented by...
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Jason: Whatever
the lions represent.
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Yvonne: Lion... lion... lion.
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James: America
being represented by...
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Yvonne: Eagle.
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James: Ooooh... we
talked about Canada... no...
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we talked about Russia...
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Yvonne: Bear.
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James: Bear...
yeah... good... good...
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so this isn't a new idea
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and God is speaking
in our own language,
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I mean, we see
this today, and so,
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you know, it makes
it a little easier.
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Ivor: So, isn't
this then Russia in...
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James: Good question...
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Ivor: Russia is bear...
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James: Yeah, that's
an interesting question.
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Ivor: Why not? Hey... you know.
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James: So, really important...
because you can do that,
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what's
interesting though is this...
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when you look at current events
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or history or
countries in the world today,
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you can't just allow them
to interpret the prophecy...
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you can't just say, "Oh,
Russia has a symbol of a bear
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and there's a bear
in Daniel chapter 7,
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so, that must be Russia. "
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You have to let the
Bible interpret itself first.
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Once the Bible has
interpreted itself,
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then you look for confirmation
in history... in the nations...
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so, the
interpretation of the Bible is
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"Hmmm... Babylon,
Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome...
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down to the judgment.
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That doesn't leave any room for
another kingdom to come in here
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because we're following
a consecutive order here...
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can't stop the cycle.
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Ivor: Yeah, this is not Russia
overthrowing England, right?
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I know Russia is the
bear... England is the lion...
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so, this must be
Russia overthrowing England.
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We're talking about
a... a... a time context...
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we're talking
about particular nations
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that have already
been identified...
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and so, you can't
just pull anything from...
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you know, "Well, that looks like
it works, so let's do that... "
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because what you end
up with is confusion.
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James: Yeah, and we're
talking about a prophecy
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that's in the
process of fulfillment...
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it hasn't been fulfilled
yet... not completely...
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you know how it is when
you put in a load of clothes
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in one of those washing
machines and the door locks,
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Yvonne: Yeah...
All: Hmmm... hmmm...
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James: You're not
getting those clothes out
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until the process is
over, you know what I'm saying?
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So, it goes
through a wash cycle...
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we'll say, "That's Babylon... "
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then it goes
through a rinse cycle...
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we'll say,
"That's Medo-Persia... "
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then it goes
through a spin cycle...
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we'll say, "That's Greece... "
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then it goes through
another rinse cycle...
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we'll say,
"That's pagan Rome... "
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then we'll go through
another spin cycle... we'll say,
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"That's the Papacy... "
you see what I'm saying?
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Yvonne: Yeah...
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James: And then, we go
through the final spin cycle...
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we'll say, "That's the
second coming of Jesus...
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including the judgment...
" et cetera, et cetera...
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does that make
sense? Yvonne: Yeah.
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James: And all of that...
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history doesn't
stop its progress
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until it reaches the
very end of the cycle.
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Yvonne: Right.
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James: Doesn't get interrupted,
you don't throw another one
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in there... until to get
to the rest of the cycle.
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Yvonne: I'm so glad
that you brought that out
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because there are so
many different interpretations
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of these verses and
applications to current events
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and countries and stuff
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and so, you have to
use the Bible first.
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Go with that and then...
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then you let the Bible
be its own interpreter.
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James: History confirms
what the Bible has to say.
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Yvonne: Right, right,
that's really important.
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James: And
history does confirm that
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so, any historian... any
history book will tell you
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Babylon was
followed by Medo-Persia
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was followed by Greece
was followed by Pagan Rome.
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You could see that written
out in all the history books
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and this is what
really helps skeptics
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to believe in the Word of God.
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In fact, some... it's so
powerful that someone said,
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"Oh, it couldn't
have been written
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till the first century B.C.
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because this is so accurate
in relationship to history
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and the Bible can't be accurate
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because, you know,
the Bible is not true. "
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Ivor: That's true.
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James: So, let's look at some of
these, Ivor, what have you got
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for... for the bear?
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Ivor: So,
obviously Daniel 7:4...
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we see that as the lion...
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we talked about its
wings being plucked up
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meaning that...
being plucked off rather...
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meaning that it rose to power
but then those wings plucked...
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it fell from power
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and really we just need to ask,
"Well, who did they fall to?"
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That's going to be the
answer to who this next beast is
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and we know history
tells us it was Medo-Persia
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but the Bible also tells us,
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so remember reading
back in Daniel chapter 5
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where MENE, MENE,
TEKEL, UPHARSIN...
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"Your kingdom is numbered
and finished and given...
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and divided and given to
the Medes and the Persians. "
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Yvonne: Right.
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Ivor: So, we've already
been told who the kingdom was
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that overthrew
Babylon. Yvonne: Right.
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Ivor: It's Mede and
the Persian Empire...
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that's the beast
represented as the bear
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and the fact that it
was raised up on one side,
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again affirms that
these were two powers
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that were coming together...
the Medes and the Persians.
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The Persians being stronger
or greater than the Medes
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so, one side
raised up above the other.
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What Daniel is doing here is
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he's actually beginning to
give us a little bit more detail
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in the kingdoms... you know,
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Daniel 2 is
just... head of gold...
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chest and arms of silver...
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belly and thighs of brass...
legs of iron and clay...
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or legs of iron...
toes of iron and clay.
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Now, here he's beginning
to give us more details
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when it comes to each image
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and he's trying
to train our minds
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to say, "Okay, I
got... you got this? Like,
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okay, this is... this
is the simple Mathematics
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now we're going to
get into... you know...
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a little bit more
difficult Mathematics...
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we're going to keep
going till we hit Calculus
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and all the different stuff... "
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well, this is
what he's doing here,
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he's saying, "This
is more detail... "
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and he's kind of
leading us to see
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some conclusions that God
is going to show His people,
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then... and at the end times.
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So, you want to
hit the three ribs?
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James: Yup, three ribs...
so, it's identifying in verse 5
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that this bear... Medo-Persia
that's raised up on one side
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has three ribs in its
mouth and that would represent
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its
devouring... because it says,
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"It's told to rise up
and devour much flesh... "
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that's
representing its devouring
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or taking on the kingdom of
Babylon in three different parts
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and that would have been
Lydia, Egypt, and Babylon.
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Those were the
three different parts
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and when
Nebuchadnezzar... excuse me,
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when Belshazzar was... was
in his fortified city in Babylon
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Cyrus was there fighting against
that part of the kingdom...
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Nabonidus... his father was
in another part of the kingdom
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trying to defend it, so
Babylon was a world empire
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and it had these different parts
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that were being
attacked by the Medo-Persians
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and the three
ribs would represent
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those three
separate parts or provinces.
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Ivor: What's really
interesting about this is that
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remember that the reason why
Babylon and Egypt are together,
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is because Babylon
had conquered Egypt.
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So, I just... think about
that when it comes to Daniel 11.
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Egypt has now... it
still exists in a certain sense
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but it is submitted to Babylon.
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It's basically
the king of the south
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has been... is submitted
to the king of the north
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they're working together now.
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You have two opposites
that have come together
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but the kings from the
east overthrow both together.
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James: Yes. Yvonne: Hmmm...
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Ivor: So, very
important point to remember
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as we get to Daniel 11,
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James and I are
looking at each other
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and really
smiling right now, so...
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Yvonne: Laughter.
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Ivor: Then comes
this third beast...
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"And after this I beheld,
and lo another, like a leopard,
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which had upon the back
of it four wings of a fowl;
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the beast also had four heads;
and dominion was given to it. "
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So, again we know that
leopard is known for its speed.
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The fact that it has
four wings and not two
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just lets us know that
whatever it's doing it's...
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the way that it
conquered was rapidly.
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Yvonne: Hmmm...
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Ivor: We understand
this kingdom to be the...
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the Grecian kingdom, right?
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It was Greece
under Alexander the Great
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that overthrew the
Medo-Persian Empire
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and we went through these dates
when we talked about Daniel 2,
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fall of Babylon to
Medo-Persia to Greece...
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so, all we're seeing is
that this is parallel, right,
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but again, we now see
a little bit more detail
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with this
Grecian kingdom, right,
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because now it has four heads...
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What are these four
heads? What do they represent?
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Well, when
Alexander the Great died
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and he died at a young age...
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what 30... 33...
something around that...
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when he died, his kingdom
was divided into four parts
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by the four Generals.
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Those Generals
were Ptolemy, Seleucus,
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Cassander and Lysimachus
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and eventually...
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this is just information for
us to remember down the road,
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eventually,
these four kingdoms...
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these four Generals really
boiled down to two Generals:
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Seleucus who basically
had a control over Syria,
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Babylon and the east,
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and then Ptolemy who
had control over Egypt.
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So, what you end up having
is this... this distinction now
00:10:56.38\00:11:00.82
between Babylon and
Egypt or king of the north
00:11:00.86\00:11:05.19
and king of the south
00:11:05.23\00:11:06.83
and this... this is something
that we need to hold on to,
00:11:06.90\00:11:10.93
what happens in
this Grecian Empire...
00:11:10.97\00:11:14.50
this division that eventually
boils down to north and south
00:11:14.57\00:11:18.87
because this idea
of north and south
00:11:18.91\00:11:20.91
is going to travel all the
way through the Grecian Empire
00:11:20.94\00:11:24.51
all the way down
to the end of time.
00:11:24.55\00:11:26.41
So, that's something
key for us to understand.
00:11:26.45\00:11:29.32
You want to take the next one?
00:11:29.35\00:11:30.75
James: Yeah, so the next
one is the terrible beast
00:11:30.79\00:11:32.72
and we know this
beast follows Greece...
00:11:32.75\00:11:35.19
historically we're told that
this beast is Rome... Pagan Rome
00:11:35.22\00:11:38.36
it's described in verse 7
as being dreadful, terrible
00:11:38.39\00:11:43.93
and strong exceedingly
00:11:43.97\00:11:45.43
and the thing about the...
the reign of Pagan Rome was
00:11:45.50\00:11:49.14
that it was longer
than any other reign...
00:11:49.17\00:11:50.84
it was the
strongest reign in the sense
00:11:50.91\00:11:52.44
that how long it lasted
00:11:52.47\00:11:53.81
and that's what
the word "strong" means
00:11:53.84\00:11:55.18
if you look it up... it's
talking about length of time...
00:11:55.21\00:11:56.54
it lasted 100s of
years... centuries...
00:11:56.58\00:11:59.25
each of the previous ones...
00:11:59.28\00:12:01.22
maybe a century or so
give or take... plus...
00:12:01.25\00:12:04.75
but pagan Rome
lasted all the way to 476
00:12:04.79\00:12:09.32
at least the western empire
and started in what? 168...
00:12:09.39\00:12:12.73
so, you've got at least...
what? over five centuries...
00:12:12.79\00:12:16.10
so strong
exceedingly in that sense...
00:12:16.13\00:12:19.07
"dreadful and terrible...
strong exceedingly...
00:12:19.10\00:12:21.07
it devoured... it
brake in pieces...
00:12:21.10\00:12:23.27
it stamped the residue
with the feet of it... "
00:12:23.30\00:12:25.47
and this I think is something
00:12:25.51\00:12:28.71
that we're going to be
looking at a little bit later
00:12:28.74\00:12:30.08
as we get further into prophecy
making a connection with this,
00:12:30.11\00:12:32.75
and it was different
from all the other beasts
00:12:32.78\00:12:35.42
that were before
it... it had ten horns.
00:12:35.45\00:12:37.19
Now this diversity is going to
be explained a little bit more
00:12:37.22\00:12:40.42
as we get into an
explanation of this fourth beast
00:12:40.46\00:12:43.73
and the reason why we're
going to focus on an explanation
00:12:43.76\00:12:45.99
of this fourth beast
00:12:46.03\00:12:47.36
is because Daniel asks
more about the fourth beast
00:12:47.40\00:12:50.70
and it's really interesting
that he does that like,
00:12:50.77\00:12:53.34
"I want to know more
about that fourth beast. "
00:12:53.40\00:12:55.44
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:12:55.50\00:12:56.87
James: He lived in Babylon
and was alive during Babylon...
00:12:56.91\00:13:01.98
that Babylon...
he's still alive...
00:13:02.01\00:13:03.35
he kind of knew
about Medo-Persia coming
00:13:03.38\00:13:05.38
and I'm sure Greece
was around, you know,
00:13:05.41\00:13:07.25
but this fourth
beast... what was it?
00:13:07.32\00:13:08.88
I mean, the others
were all neighbors...
00:13:08.92\00:13:10.49
what was it? What
was this fourth beast?
00:13:10.52\00:13:12.05
It wasn't identified
00:13:12.09\00:13:13.46
and it's really interesting
because you have the names
00:13:13.49\00:13:17.39
of each one of
the previous ones...
00:13:17.43\00:13:19.39
even in Daniel 8,
Greece is mentioned
00:13:19.43\00:13:21.26
but the fourth one
isn't mentioned by name.
00:13:21.33\00:13:23.23
Yvonne: Right.
00:13:23.26\00:13:24.60
James: What God does is
He mentions characteristics.
00:13:24.63\00:13:26.30
It would be kind
of like God saying,
00:13:26.33\00:13:28.07
"Okay, on the set of
Salvation in Symbols and Signs,
00:13:28.10\00:13:31.17
there are four people
00:13:31.21\00:13:32.67
and I'm going to tell
you who those people are,
00:13:32.71\00:13:34.58
first of all, you need to know,
00:13:34.61\00:13:35.94
those people live in the
United States of America.
00:13:35.98\00:13:38.11
Pause...
00:13:38.15\00:13:39.48
Do we all qualify?
00:13:39.51\00:13:40.85
Yvonne: Yeah. Jason: Yeah.
00:13:40.88\00:13:42.22
James: Okay, but I want to
identify one of those people
00:13:42.25\00:13:44.15
specifically out of the four...
00:13:44.19\00:13:46.22
okay... so, the characteristics
of one of those people is
00:13:46.25\00:13:49.22
not only does that one person
00:13:49.26\00:13:50.59
live in the
United States of America,
00:13:50.63\00:13:51.96
but that one
person has black genes
00:13:51.99\00:13:57.60
in their genetic background.
00:13:57.63\00:14:00.57
Which one of us is it so far?
00:14:00.60\00:14:03.24
All: All of us.
00:14:03.30\00:14:04.67
James: All of us... we
all qualify so far, right?
00:14:04.71\00:14:06.24
Not only that but that
one person has facial hair...
00:14:06.27\00:14:14.58
not necessarily a lot of facial
hair but some facial hair...
00:14:14.65\00:14:17.39
do we all still qualify?
00:14:17.42\00:14:19.42
Yvonne: No...
hopefully not. All: Laughter.
00:14:19.45\00:14:21.62
James: There's
three of us, right?
00:14:21.66\00:14:23.22
Okay, now we go to
the next qualification.
00:14:23.26\00:14:24.93
Not only do
they have facial hair
00:14:24.96\00:14:26.80
but they also have
hair on their head.
00:14:26.86\00:14:29.36
Jason: Awww... sorry Pastor.
00:14:29.40\00:14:32.87
James: Not only that,
00:14:32.90\00:14:36.20
but they're also
under the age of 60...
00:14:36.27\00:14:40.84
not only that... but
they're also handsome.
00:14:40.88\00:14:45.45
Yvonne: Both of you qualify.
00:14:45.48\00:14:47.42
All: Laughter.
00:14:47.45\00:14:49.28
James: I was
waiting for you to say,
00:14:49.32\00:14:52.12
"Oh... that's... I'm
the only one left now. "
00:14:52.15\00:14:54.26
All: Laughter.
00:14:54.29\00:14:58.03
James: Not only that but
they also have girlfriends.
00:14:58.09\00:15:00.36
Jason: Well, I hope
you don't for your sake.
00:15:00.40\00:15:03.97
James: I do
have... I'm married to her.
00:15:04.00\00:15:05.37
Jason: Oh ok All: Laughter.
00:15:05.40\00:15:07.10
James: So, until you get to
the place where... not only that
00:15:07.14\00:15:10.11
but one of them
is wearing a tie...
00:15:10.14\00:15:11.94
Jason: Hmmm... hmmm...
Yvonne: That's it then.
00:15:11.97\00:15:14.58
James: I'm the only one
left, you see what I'm saying?
00:15:14.61\00:15:16.01
This is what Daniel 7 is doing.
00:15:16.04\00:15:17.45
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:15:17.48\00:15:18.81
James: See, it gives one
characteristic after another...
00:15:18.85\00:15:21.22
after another... after another
00:15:21.28\00:15:22.62
until... well, it
could be... Ivor...
00:15:22.65\00:15:24.29
it could be Yvonne...
00:15:24.32\00:15:25.69
it could be...
next characteristic...
00:15:25.72\00:15:27.16
"Oh, okay, one's out...
the next characteristic...
00:15:27.22\00:15:29.22
oh, that person...
the next characteristic...
00:15:29.29\00:15:30.63
ah, I'm not sure...
next characteristic... "
00:15:30.66\00:15:31.99
and finally you get, like,
00:15:32.03\00:15:33.36
the clue is going to
be only one person...
00:15:33.40\00:15:34.73
Yvonne: Yeah.
00:15:34.76\00:15:36.10
James: It can only be one power
00:15:36.13\00:15:37.47
and so, that's what
Daniel 7 is doing...
00:15:37.50\00:15:38.83
it's identifying this fourth
beast with characteristics...
00:15:38.87\00:15:41.34
actually about ten of
them that nail it down
00:15:41.37\00:15:44.77
so that it's crystal
clear who this power is
00:15:44.81\00:15:48.14
and I love that fact
00:15:48.18\00:15:50.05
because what that
does is it really helps us
00:15:50.08\00:15:52.15
to be students of the Bible
and then once we figure it out,
00:15:52.21\00:15:55.85
to be absolutely certain like,
00:15:55.88\00:15:57.42
there's one else
that can fit this...
00:15:57.45\00:15:58.82
there's no other
power that can fit this
00:15:58.85\00:16:00.19
and so, Daniel in chapter
7 and verse... what is it?
00:16:00.22\00:16:03.22
17... 18... 19...
00:16:03.26\00:16:07.93
Jason, can you read that
verse for us... Verse 19?
00:16:07.96\00:16:11.17
Jason: Sure, "Then I
wished to know the truth
00:16:11.20\00:16:13.23
about the fourth beast,
00:16:13.27\00:16:14.60
which was different
from all the others,
00:16:14.64\00:16:16.07
exceedingly dreadful,
00:16:16.10\00:16:17.44
with its teeth of iron
and its nails of bronze,
00:16:17.47\00:16:19.77
which devoured, broke in pieces,
00:16:19.81\00:16:22.48
and trampled the
residue with its feet. "
00:16:22.51\00:16:24.11
James: Keep reading.
00:16:24.15\00:16:25.48
Jason: "and the ten
horns that were on its head,
00:16:25.51\00:16:27.78
and the other
horn which came up,
00:16:27.82\00:16:29.52
before which three fell,
00:16:29.55\00:16:32.45
namely, that horn
which had eyes and a mouth
00:16:32.49\00:16:36.29
which spoke pompous words,
00:16:36.32\00:16:37.86
whose appearance was
greater than his fellows. "
00:16:37.89\00:16:40.10
James: All right, so verses
19 and 20 is where Daniel says,
00:16:40.13\00:16:43.06
"I want to know more
about the fourth beast... "
00:16:43.13\00:16:44.47
and we've identified the
fourth beast as pagan Rome
00:16:44.50\00:16:48.20
at least iron...
00:16:48.24\00:16:49.94
it was an... it used
iron for the first time,
00:16:49.97\00:16:52.47
in war... in battle... it
was known as the Iron Kingdom...
00:16:52.51\00:16:54.88
length of time... the
strength that it had...
00:16:54.91\00:16:57.25
but then, out of
it comes a little horn
00:16:57.28\00:16:59.75
and this little horn plucks
up three horns by the roots
00:16:59.78\00:17:03.75
and this little horn has a...
a mouth speaking great things
00:17:03.79\00:17:07.72
and it's... its
look... the King James says
00:17:07.76\00:17:11.19
has a look that is
more stout than his fellows.
00:17:11.23\00:17:12.63
How does yours read again?
00:17:12.66\00:17:14.00
Jason: In 20?
00:17:14.03\00:17:15.96
James: Hmmm...
hmmm... last part.
00:17:16.00\00:17:17.33
Jason: "whose appearance
was greater than his fellows. "
00:17:17.37\00:17:19.20
James: Yeah, his appearance
was greater than his fellows...
00:17:19.23\00:17:21.14
so, these are some of
the characteristics now
00:17:21.17\00:17:23.10
that we're going
to be looking for
00:17:23.14\00:17:24.74
to identify this
little horn power.
00:17:24.77\00:17:26.27
Ivor: Yeah, I'm going
to take you back once again
00:17:26.31\00:17:30.35
because there's something
like, Daniel is trying to...
00:17:30.38\00:17:35.22
as we saw a
little bit earlier...
00:17:35.25\00:17:37.15
he's trying to
help us focus in on
00:17:37.19\00:17:39.09
the identity of
this little horn...
00:17:39.12\00:17:40.99
so, we know that Rome...
we discussed this earlier...
00:17:41.02\00:17:44.76
when Rome fell, it did not
fall to an outside kingdom...
00:17:44.79\00:17:48.50
a fifth kingdom that
was greater than it...
00:17:48.56\00:17:51.43
it fell from the inside
00:17:51.47\00:17:52.87
and it basically broke
down into different kingdoms
00:17:52.90\00:17:56.94
following the pattern
of Daniel chapter 2...
00:17:56.97\00:17:59.04
right, the toes of iron
00:17:59.07\00:18:01.74
and then you have
this clay introduced...
00:18:01.78\00:18:04.31
see, the little horn
is the same as that clay
00:18:04.35\00:18:06.85
that rises up
among the ten, okay,
00:18:06.88\00:18:10.05
so, Daniel focuses in
on this little horn...
00:18:10.09\00:18:14.92
this little horn does this...
this... this... this, right?
00:18:14.99\00:18:18.43
We read it...
actually Daniel 7 verse 25,
00:18:18.46\00:18:21.86
talks about... verse 20 we saw
00:18:21.90\00:18:25.53
"he has a little more
stout than his fellows... "
00:18:25.57\00:18:27.07
verse 21... "I beheld, the same
horn made war with the saints"
00:18:27.10\00:18:31.64
we see these horn plucked
up three out of ten horns
00:18:31.67\00:18:35.01
and in verse 25 it says,
00:18:35.04\00:18:36.98
"He shall speak great
words against the Most High...
00:18:37.01\00:18:39.11
shall wear out the
saints of the Most High,
00:18:39.15\00:18:41.45
and think to
change times and laws:
00:18:41.48\00:18:44.09
and they shall be given into
his hand until a time... times
00:18:44.12\00:18:47.12
and the dividing of time. "
00:18:47.16\00:18:48.49
Now, this is very
interesting because
00:18:48.52\00:18:49.96
James had a point here,
00:18:50.03\00:18:51.79
Babylon ruled from
about 607 to 538 BC...
00:18:51.83\00:18:55.93
short time...
00:18:55.96\00:18:57.47
Medo-Persia and Greece
ruled longer than Babylon...
00:18:57.50\00:19:03.54
Rome ruled about... let
me see... about 600 years...
00:19:03.57\00:19:09.44
somewhere around there...
00:19:09.48\00:19:10.81
but then the Little Horn rules
the longest out of all of them.
00:19:10.85\00:19:16.82
James: Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:19:16.89\00:19:18.22
so it's almost like you
see this progression of...
00:19:18.25\00:19:20.06
yeah, they
ruled... the rule was...
00:19:20.09\00:19:21.46
but the Little Horn...
00:19:21.49\00:19:23.22
he dominates for a
time, times and a half.
00:19:23.26\00:19:25.79
That's a very
specific time period
00:19:25.83\00:19:27.50
which we're not
going to get into right now
00:19:27.56\00:19:29.06
but we will see that that
is... it's longer than the...
00:19:29.10\00:19:32.03
than the dominion
of the Roman Empire.
00:19:32.07\00:19:33.50
James: Right, and that
might connect with his...
00:19:33.54\00:19:35.77
he was... he was higher up.
00:19:35.80\00:19:38.87
Ivor: That's
right, he was stout...
00:19:38.91\00:19:40.51
so, let's... let's go back...
00:19:40.54\00:19:43.08
we're just going to go back
way, way, way back from here...
00:19:43.11\00:19:44.91
way, way, way back...
we're going to rewind the clock.
00:19:44.95\00:19:47.62
James: We're going to
stay in Daniel though.
00:19:47.68\00:19:49.02
we're staying in Daniel...
00:19:49.05\00:19:50.39
we're going past Genesis...
we're going back to heaven.
00:19:50.42\00:19:53.82
James: Oh, we are?
00:19:53.86\00:19:55.19
Ivor: We're going back
to heaven Yvonne: Okay.
00:19:55.22\00:19:56.56
Ivor: So, remember
that Lucifer in heaven
00:19:56.59\00:20:00.80
was the right-hand
angel of God, right?
00:20:00.83\00:20:05.07
We saw in an earlier program
that he was the covering cherub
00:20:05.10\00:20:09.40
and that cherub was made
out of gold in the sanctuary.
00:20:09.44\00:20:13.24
That cherub was
next to the Mercy Seat
00:20:13.27\00:20:16.04
which represents God's throne
which was and is in heaven.
00:20:16.08\00:20:19.61
God has a mercy seat in heaven.
00:20:19.65\00:20:21.72
We know that the Bible says,
"Lucifer sinned... " right?
00:20:21.75\00:20:25.32
which is... he
transgressed the law...
00:20:25.35\00:20:27.39
and that lets us know
there had to be a law in heaven
00:20:27.42\00:20:30.83
for Lucifer to transgress,
00:20:30.86\00:20:32.19
and that's what the Ark
of the Covenant shows us.
00:20:32.23\00:20:34.20
Ark of the
Covenant... Law of God...
00:20:34.23\00:20:35.66
Mercy Seat on top of the Ark...
00:20:35.70\00:20:37.40
that's the
foundation of God's throne
00:20:37.43\00:20:38.80
and then you have
these two covering cherubs.
00:20:38.83\00:20:40.64
Now, Lucifer... right...
ends up turning against God
00:20:40.67\00:20:44.24
and he ends up
sinning so the question is,
00:20:44.27\00:20:46.14
"Was Lucifer cast out of
heaven because he sinned?"
00:20:46.17\00:20:49.34
James: Hmmm...
00:20:49.41\00:20:50.75
Ivor: "Was he cut
off when he sinned?"
00:20:50.78\00:20:52.71
James: Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:20:52.75\00:20:54.15
Ivor: I believe
the answer is, "No... "
00:20:54.18\00:20:55.82
and here's why because...
00:20:55.85\00:20:57.59
if you remember when
Peter was speaking to Jesus,
00:20:57.62\00:20:59.72
"Lord, if my
enemies sin against me,
00:20:59.75\00:21:01.99
how often shall I
forgive him, seven times?"
00:21:02.02\00:21:04.59
and He says, "No... "
and what number does He use?
00:21:04.63\00:21:06.93
70 times 7...
so, my question is,
00:21:06.96\00:21:10.70
would there have
been a period of time...
00:21:10.73\00:21:12.97
we don't know how long...
00:21:13.00\00:21:14.34
but would there have
been a period of time
00:21:14.37\00:21:15.97
that we could
symbolize by 70 times 7
00:21:16.00\00:21:18.94
that God
extended mercy to Lucifer
00:21:18.97\00:21:21.84
trying to get him to
repent and he was just like,
00:21:21.88\00:21:24.55
"No, I'm not
doing it... " right?
00:21:24.58\00:21:25.98
So, we know that then
00:21:26.01\00:21:28.55
there would have been
a 70 times 7 in heaven
00:21:28.58\00:21:30.85
and a period of mercy and
grace extended to Lucifer.
00:21:30.89\00:21:34.42
He rejects that... and
ultimately what does he do?
00:21:34.46\00:21:38.49
Several things... "I'm
going to war against God...
00:21:38.56\00:21:42.46
I'm going to war against
the angels of the Most High.
00:21:42.53\00:21:46.43
The reason is
because I'm thinking
00:21:46.47\00:21:49.60
of changing times and laws...
00:21:49.64\00:21:52.94
I'm going to
blaspheme God's name...
00:21:52.97\00:21:55.31
I... no... no...
no... I am God...
00:21:55.34\00:21:57.75
I can be like the Most High... "
00:21:57.78\00:22:00.15
and it's very interesting
because the name "Michael" means
00:22:00.18\00:22:04.12
the One who is like God.
00:22:04.15\00:22:06.02
"I'm going to be like
Michael... like Mike...
00:22:06.05\00:22:09.96
I'm going to be... I'm
going to take His place. "
00:22:09.99\00:22:14.03
So, what happens is,
"Lucifer in this war... "
00:22:14.06\00:22:17.80
let me say it this way,
00:22:17.83\00:22:19.17
"Would there have
been a period of time
00:22:19.20\00:22:20.54
in which Lucifer in heaven
00:22:20.57\00:22:21.90
thought to
change times and laws...
00:22:21.94\00:22:23.94
thoughts of war against
the saints of the Most High...
00:22:23.97\00:22:27.94
blasphemed the name of God...
00:22:27.98\00:22:30.25
All: Hmmm...
00:22:30.28\00:22:31.61
Ivor: Yeah... yeah...
and now, check this out...
00:22:31.65\00:22:34.18
how many angels does
Lucifer uproot in heaven?
00:22:34.22\00:22:38.62
All: One third...
00:22:38.65\00:22:39.99
Ivor: How many of the horns
00:22:40.02\00:22:42.59
does this Little
Horn uproot in Daniel 7?
00:22:42.62\00:22:46.90
James: Three...
00:22:46.96\00:22:48.30
Ivor: Three out
of...? All: Ten...
00:22:48.33\00:22:50.50
Ivor: Roughly...
All: One-third...
00:22:50.57\00:22:51.93
Ivor: When you look
at this Little Horn...
00:22:52.00\00:22:54.80
you are looking at
an earthly counterpart
00:22:54.84\00:22:57.61
of what Lucifer did in heaven.
00:22:57.64\00:22:59.54
Ivor: Daniel is
trying to identify
00:22:59.57\00:23:02.28
and hone in on
this Little Horn Power
00:23:02.31\00:23:04.91
to say, "Whoever this guy is...
this is the man of sin... "
00:23:04.95\00:23:11.29
this is the image of Daniel
2... I'm sorry... Daniel 3...
00:23:11.32\00:23:14.32
that golden image
that was set up...
00:23:14.36\00:23:17.23
this is the man...
this is Mystery Babylon...
00:23:17.26\00:23:20.76
this is the man of sin
00:23:20.80\00:23:22.13
who really is a
reflection of that golden cherub
00:23:22.16\00:23:24.73
way... way... way
back there in heaven.
00:23:24.77\00:23:27.70
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:23:27.74\00:23:30.31
Ivor: So, this is what
Daniel 7 is trying to focus...
00:23:30.34\00:23:31.67
so, when we look at the
acts of this Little Horn...
00:23:31.71\00:23:34.21
this earthly power
that rises out of Rome...
00:23:34.24\00:23:36.75
he's trying to prepare our
minds to see this double vision.
00:23:36.78\00:23:40.78
"Yeah, while I'm looking at you
and this literal earthly thing
00:23:40.82\00:23:44.55
whoever this is...
00:23:44.59\00:23:45.92
I can know that
as I look at you,
00:23:45.95\00:23:47.69
I'm looking at a
reflection or an image
00:23:47.72\00:23:51.13
of Lucifer in heaven. "
00:23:51.19\00:23:53.23
Just like when we look
at Jesus, we are seeing...
00:23:53.26\00:23:55.16
"If you've seen Me,
you've seen My Father... "
00:23:55.20\00:23:57.07
When we see this Little Horn,
00:23:57.10\00:23:59.43
we are seeing a
greater power behind it
00:23:59.47\00:24:02.17
and so, that's why
our attention should be,
00:24:02.20\00:24:06.37
"All right, we need
to know who this is... "
00:24:06.41\00:24:08.14
and when we study the
literal power who this is...
00:24:08.18\00:24:09.98
we're going to see...
00:24:10.01\00:24:11.38
"Oh, this is what
Satan's trying to do...
00:24:11.41\00:24:14.38
this is what he's
trying to pull... "
00:24:14.42\00:24:16.05
and this
prepares us for Daniel 11
00:24:16.08\00:24:19.15
because Daniel
11... we're going to see
00:24:19.19\00:24:21.49
is this Little Horn amplified?
00:24:21.52\00:24:25.76
James: The
ultimate move of Satan.
00:24:25.79\00:24:27.13
Ivor: The
ultimate move of Satan.
00:24:27.16\00:24:28.70
James: To take out
God's place. Ivor: Absolutely.
00:24:28.73\00:24:30.93
James: Put himself between...
between heavens and the earth.
00:24:30.97\00:24:33.37
Good stuff... so...
00:24:33.40\00:24:35.07
let's just look at some
of these characteristics...
00:24:35.10\00:24:37.57
I just want us to refer
back to maybe a couple of points
00:24:37.61\00:24:40.88
that we may... when we
were identifying ourselves,
00:24:40.91\00:24:43.65
for trying to
figure out who is who
00:24:43.68\00:24:45.35
because in verse 8 it says,
"I was considering the horns,
00:24:45.38\00:24:48.78
and, behold there
came up among them... "
00:24:48.82\00:24:50.69
so, whoever these horns are,
00:24:50.72\00:24:53.39
the Little Horn
comes up among them.
00:24:53.42\00:24:54.76
The location is
going to be the same.
00:24:54.79\00:24:56.96
So, these nations rose
up in the old country...
00:24:56.99\00:25:00.43
we can call it
the Old Country...
00:25:00.50\00:25:01.83
we know pagan Rome
following Grecia... Greece...
00:25:01.86\00:25:05.63
composed primarily
the nations of Europe.
00:25:05.67\00:25:10.17
So, we've got...
we've got these ten horns
00:25:10.21\00:25:13.61
representing these
nations of Europe...
00:25:13.64\00:25:15.51
I'm going to say,
"Vandals... Ostrogoths...
00:25:15.54\00:25:18.05
Heruli...
Anglo-Saxons... Lombard's...
00:25:18.08\00:25:20.22
Visigoths... Suevi...
00:25:20.25\00:25:21.58
Alemanni...
Franks... and Burgundians
00:25:21.62\00:25:23.99
and three of them
are plucked out...
00:25:24.02\00:25:26.02
Vandals...
Ostrogoths and Heruli.
00:25:26.05\00:25:28.02
So, these are the nations that
compose Modern Europe today,
00:25:28.06\00:25:31.66
this was the basis
of Modern Europe today
00:25:31.69\00:25:34.00
and this power...
00:25:34.03\00:25:35.43
this Little Horn
Power comes up among them.
00:25:35.46\00:25:37.47
That's the first
characteristic...
00:25:37.50\00:25:38.83
it will pluck up three...
the three that were plucked up,
00:25:38.87\00:25:40.84
mentioned already... Vandals...
Ostrogoths and Heruli.
00:25:40.87\00:25:43.17
They were plucked up
and they are now extinct...
00:25:43.20\00:25:46.21
the others continued on...
Anglo-Saxons... the English...
00:25:46.24\00:25:48.98
all of them connect with
00:25:49.01\00:25:50.35
a European country
of one kind or another
00:25:50.38\00:25:53.28
so, that's the
first characteristic...
00:25:53.31\00:25:55.52
another characteristic
that's identified here
00:25:55.55\00:25:57.62
is that he would
have the eyes of a man
00:25:57.65\00:26:00.66
and a mouth
speaking great things.
00:26:00.69\00:26:02.29
So, this power
would be ruled by a man...
00:26:02.32\00:26:06.63
it would have a
man at its head...
00:26:06.66\00:26:08.00
and this man would
speak great things...
00:26:08.03\00:26:10.63
so, you've got three
characteristics there...
00:26:10.67\00:26:12.70
actually four characteristics...
00:26:12.73\00:26:14.07
you've got location... it
would arise among the ten horns,
00:26:14.10\00:26:16.40
it would pluck up
three of the other horns...
00:26:16.44\00:26:19.01
three of the other powers would
be plucked up by its rising,
00:26:19.04\00:26:22.64
it would have eyes of a
man... a man at its head
00:26:22.68\00:26:24.58
and speak great things...
00:26:24.61\00:26:25.95
Ivor: Or blasphemous things...
00:26:25.98\00:26:27.32
James: Okay,
later on it says that...
00:26:27.35\00:26:28.68
great things
against the God of heaven.
00:26:28.72\00:26:30.05
Ivor: Right, exactly.
00:26:30.09\00:26:31.42
James: What are the
characteristics do we have here?
00:26:31.45\00:26:33.29
Ivor: He thinks to
change times and laws...
00:26:33.32\00:26:35.72
James: Okay... so
that's back to 25...
00:26:35.76\00:26:38.26
Ivor: Yeah... "They're given
unto his hand until a time,
00:26:38.29\00:26:41.66
times and the dividing of
times and he persecutes... "
00:26:41.70\00:26:45.03
did we talk about persecuting
the saints of the Most High?
00:26:45.07\00:26:47.44
James: "wear out the
saints of the Most High...
00:26:47.47\00:26:48.80
thinks to change
times and laws... "
00:26:48.84\00:26:50.17
and then there's a
time prophecy it talks...
00:26:50.21\00:26:51.77
that is set up here for
time, times and half a time.
00:26:51.81\00:26:55.34
Now, that time, times and
a half a time in the Bible...
00:26:55.41\00:26:58.91
in Bible prophecy...
and that's in verse 25...
00:26:58.95\00:27:01.78
"time" is a year...
00:27:01.82\00:27:03.85
a half a time
would be half a time...
00:27:03.89\00:27:05.55
times... plural would
be at least two years...
00:27:05.59\00:27:07.76
if you give "times"
two years and "time" a year
00:27:07.79\00:27:10.43
and "half a time" a half year...
00:27:10.46\00:27:11.79
you've got
three and a half years
00:27:11.83\00:27:13.26
and if you give a prophetic
understanding to that...
00:27:13.29\00:27:16.50
that is a "day" for a "year"
00:27:16.53\00:27:17.87
you're going to
have 1,260 days...
00:27:17.90\00:27:21.34
three and a half
days is 1,260 days
00:27:21.37\00:27:23.34
and a day for a year
would be 1,260 years.
00:27:23.37\00:27:26.37
Ivor: And the
reason it's symbolic
00:27:26.41\00:27:27.98
is because everything
else in the vision is symbolic
00:27:28.01\00:27:30.05
so, we're looking to talk about
symbolic time not literal time.
00:27:30.08\00:27:33.72
James: Prophetic
time... not literal time.
00:27:33.75\00:27:35.32
Ivor: Yeah... yeah.
00:27:35.35\00:27:36.69
James: So, you got a
power that rises up in Europe
00:27:36.72\00:27:39.22
among the nations of Europe...
the now-nations of Europe
00:27:39.25\00:27:41.49
as it rises up,
it plucks up three...
00:27:41.52\00:27:44.66
it... it's led by a man and
that man speaks great things
00:27:44.69\00:27:47.56
against the God of heaven...
00:27:47.60\00:27:48.93
it ends up
persecuting the saints
00:27:48.96\00:27:50.73
for a time... time and a half...
00:27:50.77\00:27:52.90
and we are running out of time.
00:27:52.93\00:27:55.00
All: Laughter.
00:27:55.07\00:27:56.40
James: We'll pick this
up in our next session.
00:27:56.44\00:27:59.21