Music...
00:00:01.36\00:00:31.56
James: Okay, so we
are still in Daniel 2
00:00:31.59\00:00:34.56
which is... which
is really good because
00:00:34.60\00:00:36.26
what I've been learning as
we've been going through this is
00:00:36.30\00:00:40.24
there's a lot here
that's very practical
00:00:40.27\00:00:43.00
and I think we closed up
on the idea of just the...
00:00:43.04\00:00:47.04
the
secular-skeptic thinking that,
00:00:47.08\00:00:51.61
"Hey, Daniel was
written like 1st century B.C.
00:00:51.65\00:00:54.48
there's no way that he
could have figured that all out
00:00:54.52\00:00:56.52
or understood all that history
without cheating a little bit,
00:00:56.55\00:01:00.02
but if we even give them that,
00:01:00.06\00:01:02.39
there's still
500 years after that
00:01:02.42\00:01:03.83
that have to be
figured out ahead of time
00:01:03.86\00:01:06.96
in order for that prophecy
to be accurate because...
00:01:07.00\00:01:10.77
Ivor: I'm going
to add in here James
00:01:10.80\00:01:12.77
that we didn't even talk
about this in the last program
00:01:12.83\00:01:14.80
and I know we
haven't even prayed yet,
00:01:14.84\00:01:16.20
but, the two schools of
thought Preterism and Futurism
00:01:16.24\00:01:20.54
which is what most people
hear and most skeptics hear,
00:01:20.58\00:01:24.85
really just eliminate the
whole idea of this prophecy
00:01:24.88\00:01:29.12
extending over a
period of time through history
00:01:29.15\00:01:32.19
so, in reality... this view
of prophecy that we're sharing
00:01:32.25\00:01:37.29
is crucial to convincing the
"Nebuchadnezzars" of the world
00:01:37.33\00:01:42.26
and because Satan
has kind of produced
00:01:42.30\00:01:44.53
some counterfeit
verses of prophecy
00:01:44.57\00:01:46.67
that don't pan out...
00:01:46.70\00:01:48.04
in their mind... "Oh
yeah, this prophecy...
00:01:48.07\00:01:50.51
prophecy is nothing because
00:01:50.54\00:01:51.87
there's no real
proof of fulfillment... "
00:01:51.91\00:01:53.91
and it's really because they
haven't heard Daniel, right?
00:01:53.98\00:01:59.35
They've been
listening to the wise men
00:01:59.38\00:02:00.72
they're like, "Yeah,
that doesn't make sense,
00:02:00.75\00:02:02.08
that doesn't make
sense... " but for many of them,
00:02:02.12\00:02:04.19
they have not heard a
"Daniel" come and say,
00:02:04.22\00:02:06.99
"No, that's not
what that means...
00:02:07.02\00:02:08.76
this is what it means... " so...
00:02:08.79\00:02:10.46
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
and it's certain and sure
00:02:10.49\00:02:12.06
that's something else
Daniel says, isn't it?
00:02:12.09\00:02:13.63
"This is certain and sure. "
00:02:13.66\00:02:15.43
Yvonne, would you
pray for us as we start.
00:02:15.46\00:02:17.20
Yvonne: Sure... "Father
God, thank You so very much
00:02:17.27\00:02:19.53
for bringing us together
again to study Your Word.
00:02:19.57\00:02:21.84
There are so
many rich gems in here
00:02:21.87\00:02:24.51
and we just thank You that
You've just given us the...
00:02:24.57\00:02:28.11
the map for finding out
where these things are...
00:02:28.14\00:02:31.25
the treasure map...
so, we just pray Lord God
00:02:31.28\00:02:33.85
that you would
continue to lead and guide,
00:02:33.88\00:02:36.28
in Jesus' name, amen. "
00:02:36.32\00:02:37.65
All: Amen.
00:02:37.69\00:02:39.15
James: You know, you brought
up something there, Ivor,
00:02:39.19\00:02:40.59
that I think is
really worth touching on
00:02:40.62\00:02:43.53
and that is the different
schools of interpretive thought,
00:02:43.59\00:02:46.09
you mentioned Preterism...
you mentioned Futurism...
00:02:46.13\00:02:48.86
we believe in Historicism
00:02:48.90\00:02:51.07
and then, there's even a
new one called "Idealism"
00:02:51.13\00:02:53.34
and we did touch on that a
little bit in an earlier program
00:02:53.37\00:02:56.57
when we covered Revelation
00:02:56.60\00:02:57.94
but it's really
interesting isn't it,
00:02:57.97\00:03:00.58
I think, that
Daniel almost necessitates
00:03:00.61\00:03:03.31
Historicist interpretation
00:03:03.35\00:03:05.65
and to put it... Future or
even Preterist is difficult,
00:03:05.68\00:03:10.19
now, when we say, "Historicist"
00:03:10.22\00:03:12.52
and then compare
that with "Preterism... "
00:03:12.55\00:03:14.52
Preterism says, "All prophecy
has already been fulfilled...
00:03:14.56\00:03:16.86
it's all in the past... "
00:03:16.89\00:03:18.49
and it's really
difficult to do that with Daniel
00:03:18.53\00:03:20.83
but it's natural for
us on this side of Daniel
00:03:20.86\00:03:23.70
to recognize that a lot
of this is in the past...
00:03:23.73\00:03:26.53
which we have Babylon...
Medo-Persia... Greece... Rome...
00:03:26.57\00:03:29.24
so, Historicism
though allows for that past
00:03:29.27\00:03:32.67
while also opening
the way for... future.
00:03:32.71\00:03:35.71
Futurism doesn't
allow for the past,
00:03:35.74\00:03:38.71
it focuses on the future...
00:03:38.75\00:03:40.12
Historicism is:
Past, Present and Future.
00:03:40.15\00:03:42.25
All: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:03:42.28\00:03:43.69
James: But another
thing Historicism does
00:03:43.72\00:03:45.45
is different from Idealism
00:03:45.49\00:03:46.82
which is a very popular way
of interpreting prophecy today
00:03:46.86\00:03:49.39
is idealism doesn't
nail down the history.
00:03:49.42\00:03:52.86
Idealism shares the
principles, you know,
00:03:52.89\00:03:56.26
these powers...
these influences...
00:03:56.30\00:03:58.07
and "they did this
and this was for evil
00:03:58.10\00:03:59.77
and this was for good...
and we can see those... "
00:03:59.80\00:04:01.47
but they don't really say,
00:04:01.50\00:04:02.84
"Now, from this date to this
date, this power did this...
00:04:02.87\00:04:04.64
from this date to this
date, this power did this. "
00:04:04.67\00:04:06.07
Yvonne: Okay...
00:04:06.11\00:04:07.44
James: So it's Idealism
00:04:07.48\00:04:08.81
because it's
ideal for "Pluralism"
00:04:08.84\00:04:10.91
when you don't want to
really nail down anything...
00:04:10.95\00:04:13.11
you don't want to
identify anyone...
00:04:13.18\00:04:14.52
you just want
everyone to come to the table
00:04:14.55\00:04:16.12
and kind of say,
"Yeah, this is really cool...
00:04:16.15\00:04:17.99
these principles
are really cool... "
00:04:18.02\00:04:19.35
and, "Yeah, wow! we
can get a lot of out that"
00:04:19.39\00:04:21.52
and then you just go on,
00:04:21.56\00:04:22.89
whereas, what
Historicism does is...
00:04:22.92\00:04:25.09
it insists that this has
a specific application...
00:04:25.13\00:04:29.06
a specific time in history
that leads to specific actions
00:04:29.10\00:04:31.73
that helps us
prepare for the future
00:04:31.77\00:04:33.87
and understand the past.
00:04:33.90\00:04:35.24
So, I really
think it was good for us
00:04:35.27\00:04:36.60
just to brush up
on that a little bit,
00:04:36.64\00:04:38.11
the
Historicist... the Preterist...
00:04:38.14\00:04:39.77
the Futurist and the
Idealist interpretations
00:04:39.84\00:04:42.44
so, we left off
in Daniel chapter 2
00:04:42.48\00:04:45.48
and we were looking at...
00:04:45.51\00:04:47.65
as you were going
through the verses, Ivor,
00:04:47.68\00:04:49.38
we were looking at these verses
that identified Nebuchadnezzar
00:04:49.42\00:04:52.85
as the king of kings,
00:04:52.89\00:04:54.36
and you were pointing out
00:04:54.39\00:04:55.79
some of the
powerful, I think, insights
00:04:55.82\00:04:59.06
that help us to
understand how this prepares us
00:04:59.09\00:05:03.77
for future
prophecy and understanding
00:05:03.80\00:05:05.23
and what this means
in... in relationship to that,
00:05:05.27\00:05:07.37
so, I'm going to
hand it back to you
00:05:07.40\00:05:08.74
and... and take us on.
00:05:08.77\00:05:10.71
Ivor: So, we were
talking about the four kingdoms
00:05:10.74\00:05:14.38
covered so far,
Babylon... Medo-Persia...
00:05:14.41\00:05:16.98
Greece... and then Rome...
00:05:17.01\00:05:18.98
and saw that we're looking at a
period of roughly a 1,000 years
00:05:19.01\00:05:22.35
of, you know,
history in advance.
00:05:22.38\00:05:25.15
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:05:25.19\00:05:26.52
Ivor: And this is what
Daniel has... has showed so far
00:05:26.55\00:05:29.06
but we didn't get into yet is
00:05:29.09\00:05:31.79
what happens after
the fourth kingdom,
00:05:31.86\00:05:33.60
now, we did talk about
how the fourth kingdom,
00:05:33.63\00:05:34.96
Daniel said, would
basically break down
00:05:35.00\00:05:38.23
right, and not be
overthrown by a...
00:05:38.27\00:05:40.94
at least an
earthly fifth kingdom.
00:05:40.97\00:05:43.10
All: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:05:43.14\00:05:44.47
Ivor: So, in Daniel
chapter 2, verse 40... 41...
00:05:44.51\00:05:50.18
maybe if Yvonne, you
can read verses 41 to 43.
00:05:50.21\00:05:56.12
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:05:56.15\00:05:57.49
"Whereas you saw
the feet and toes,
00:05:57.52\00:05:59.65
partly of potter's
clay and partly of iron,
00:05:59.69\00:06:02.29
the kingdom shall be divided;
00:06:02.32\00:06:04.16
yet the strength of
the iron shall be in it,
00:06:04.19\00:06:07.00
just as you saw the
iron mixed with ceramic clay,
00:06:07.06\00:06:09.80
and as the toes of the feet
00:06:09.86\00:06:11.90
were partly of
iron and partly of clay,
00:06:11.93\00:06:13.74
so the kingdom shall be partly
strong and partly fragile.
00:06:13.77\00:06:17.51
As you saw iron
mixed with ceramic clay,
00:06:17.54\00:06:20.24
they will mingle
with the seed of men;
00:06:20.28\00:06:22.74
but they will not
adhere to one another,
00:06:22.78\00:06:25.25
just as iron does
not mix with clay. "
00:06:25.28\00:06:28.35
Ivor: So, Daniel
basically explains
00:06:28.38\00:06:31.39
that after this fourth kingdom
00:06:31.42\00:06:32.75
you would now have this
kingdom of iron and of clay.
00:06:32.79\00:06:38.03
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:06:38.06\00:06:39.39
Ivor: And if you
look at this, I mean,
00:06:39.43\00:06:41.46
one of these elements is
added into this prophecy...
00:06:41.50\00:06:44.43
the other element
was there from before.
00:06:44.47\00:06:47.27
So, Rome... you
have the iron kingdom...
00:06:47.30\00:06:50.11
that's the fourth kingdom...
00:06:50.14\00:06:51.67
and then, you have
this remnant of Rome
00:06:51.71\00:06:55.14
right? coming...
coming in the toes
00:06:55.18\00:06:58.58
but now you have this additional
clay that's being added.
00:06:58.61\00:07:01.92
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:07:01.95\00:07:03.28
Ivor: So, the question
is, what is this clay, right?
00:07:03.32\00:07:06.86
Ivor: Rome we can...
we can almost assume that
00:07:06.89\00:07:09.52
the iron is what
comes out of Rome
00:07:09.56\00:07:12.26
but the clay is a new
kingdom that's added in here...
00:07:12.29\00:07:17.43
rather, new element...
00:07:17.47\00:07:18.80
Ivor: Right? So,
what is the clay?
00:07:18.83\00:07:20.90
Let's go to Isaiah 64,
00:07:20.94\00:07:23.17
I'm going to have
someone read for me...
00:07:23.20\00:07:24.54
Isaiah 64 verses 8 and 9...
00:07:24.57\00:07:28.04
Isaiah 64 verses 8 and 9.
00:07:28.08\00:07:31.58
Jason: Okay, "But now, O
Lord, You are our Father;
00:07:31.61\00:07:36.79
We are the clay,
and You our potter;
00:07:36.82\00:07:39.75
And all we are
the work of Your hand.
00:07:39.79\00:07:42.66
Do not be furious, O Lord,
00:07:42.69\00:07:45.06
nor remember iniquity forever;
00:07:45.09\00:07:46.83
Indeed, please look...
we all are Your people!"
00:07:46.86\00:07:50.17
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:07:50.23\00:07:51.57
Ivor: So, here
clay is being used
00:07:51.60\00:07:53.20
as a symbol of God's people.
00:07:53.23\00:07:54.57
James: Yup... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:07:54.60\00:07:55.94
Ivor: Right? So...
but this is really strange
00:07:55.97\00:07:59.54
because why is the
stone smiting the image
00:07:59.57\00:08:03.28
where it seems like,
00:08:03.31\00:08:06.21
"Well, this is
God's people here. "
00:08:06.25\00:08:07.68
Yvonne: Right.
00:08:07.72\00:08:09.05
Ivor: Well, what's
happening here is that this clay
00:08:09.08\00:08:10.82
professes to serve God.
00:08:10.85\00:08:12.85
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:08:12.92\00:08:14.82
Ivor: It claims
that it's God's people
00:08:14.89\00:08:17.59
but there's
something amiss about this.
00:08:17.63\00:08:19.69
James: Yes. Ivor: Right?
00:08:19.76\00:08:21.10
Yvonne: Hmmm...
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:08:21.13\00:08:22.46
Ivor: So what you have happening
is that clay represents
00:08:22.50\00:08:23.83
a spiritual power.
00:08:23.87\00:08:25.67
James: Hmmm...
hmmm... religious power...
00:08:25.70\00:08:28.40
Ivor: Right?
Church... religious...
00:08:28.44\00:08:29.77
while the clay represents
00:08:29.80\00:08:31.41
what came out of Rome
which was... you know...
00:08:31.44\00:08:33.81
James: The iron you mean...
00:08:33.84\00:08:35.18
Ivor: Yeah, I'm sorry...
the iron would represent
00:08:35.21\00:08:37.58
that which came out of Rome,
00:08:37.65\00:08:38.98
which is not a spiritual power,
it's just a secular state power
00:08:39.01\00:08:43.22
so what you have in
this clay and this iron
00:08:43.25\00:08:46.05
is a mingling of
Church and State.
00:08:46.12\00:08:50.06
Yvonne: Ooooh... James: Hmmm...
00:08:50.09\00:08:53.96
Ivor: Some place called
"Churchcraft" and "Statecraft. "
00:08:54.00\00:08:56.63
Yvonne: Hmmm...
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:08:56.67\00:08:58.00
it's a mingling of
two different principles.
00:08:58.03\00:08:59.53
Yvonne: Hmmm...
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:08:59.60\00:09:00.94
Ivor: Now, why
doesn't it mingle...
00:09:00.97\00:09:02.74
in fact, James,
you read this verse...
00:09:02.77\00:09:04.47
you asked Jason to read
this verse a little bit early
00:09:04.51\00:09:07.51
and this is very interesting.
00:09:07.54\00:09:08.88
It's Isaiah 48 verse 4
00:09:08.91\00:09:11.28
and I have it here,
I'll go ahead and read it,
00:09:11.31\00:09:13.08
"Because I knew
that thou art obstinate,
00:09:13.11\00:09:14.55
and thy neck as an iron sinew,
00:09:14.58\00:09:18.85
thy brow as brass... "
00:09:18.89\00:09:21.42
and it goes on...
I mean, what is...
00:09:21.46\00:09:23.29
what the text is saying here
is actually using iron and brass
00:09:23.32\00:09:29.80
as symbols of hard
heartedness, right?
00:09:29.86\00:09:32.93
Stubbornness...
00:09:32.97\00:09:35.24
can you think of
anyone in the Bible
00:09:35.27\00:09:40.31
that demonstrated a hard heart.
00:09:40.38\00:09:43.11
Jason: Pharaoh.
00:09:43.14\00:09:44.55
James: Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:09:44.58\00:09:45.91
Ivor: Pharaoh's
heart was hardened.
00:09:45.95\00:09:47.88
Yvonne: Hmmm...
hmmm... James: Hmmm...
00:09:47.92\00:09:50.12
Ivor: He was against
God... he rejected God...
00:09:50.15\00:09:52.39
he was... Pharaoh is
what we would say in the Bible
00:09:52.42\00:09:56.66
is a symbol of
Secularism or even Atheism.
00:09:56.69\00:10:01.90
Just a denial of God...
00:10:01.96\00:10:03.57
Yvonne: Yes... yes.
00:10:03.60\00:10:04.93
Ivor: You catch what
I'm saying? Yvonne: Yes.
00:10:04.97\00:10:06.43
Ivor: So, what
you have happening is,
00:10:06.47\00:10:09.44
you have two
elements in Daniel 2...
00:10:09.47\00:10:12.41
in the toes of iron and clay...
00:10:12.44\00:10:13.78
one apparently
religious... one... secular...
00:10:13.81\00:10:18.05
one that represents God
00:10:18.08\00:10:21.62
and the other that is
obstinate... against God...
00:10:21.68\00:10:24.29
hard-hearted against God
00:10:24.32\00:10:25.65
and what's
interesting about this is
00:10:25.69\00:10:27.39
that the clay
represents a church element
00:10:27.42\00:10:32.03
and we're going to see that...
00:10:32.06\00:10:33.40
that this is actually speaking
about spiritual Babylon.
00:10:33.43\00:10:36.10
James: Okay. Ivor: Right?
00:10:36.13\00:10:37.47
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:10:37.50\00:10:38.83
Ivor: Spiritual Babylon...
00:10:38.87\00:10:40.20
while the iron
represents the exact opposite.
00:10:40.24\00:10:42.50
We look at Pharaoh...
00:10:42.54\00:10:45.74
we look at Pharaoh as the
symbol of being hard hearted...
00:10:45.77\00:10:49.64
and who was Pharaoh a king of?
00:10:49.71\00:10:51.05
Yvonne: Egypt.
00:10:51.08\00:10:52.41
Ivor: He was king of
Egypt which happened to be...
00:10:52.45\00:10:53.78
what kingdom?
00:10:53.82\00:10:55.15
Yvonne and Jason: South.
00:10:55.18\00:10:56.52
Ivor: South... so what
you have happening is...
00:10:56.55\00:10:57.89
we got Babylon who
was a king of the north...
00:10:57.92\00:11:00.29
spiritual Babylon...
00:11:00.36\00:11:01.69
and you have this secular entity
00:11:01.72\00:11:05.36
that we could just
summarize as secularism...
00:11:05.39\00:11:08.73
as just Statecraft...
00:11:08.76\00:11:10.10
you know, it's not about God,
00:11:10.13\00:11:12.43
it's just about
temporal survival
00:11:12.47\00:11:14.80
and as we look at what
happened during the Dark Ages,
00:11:14.84\00:11:18.61
we actually see church power
seeking to control secular power
00:11:18.64\00:11:25.61
and that never mixes
00:11:25.68\00:11:27.32
because you
cannot convert someone
00:11:27.35\00:11:31.09
just by... just by force.
00:11:31.12\00:11:32.65
Yvonne: Right. James: Right.
00:11:32.69\00:11:34.19
Ivor: Right, you
can't convert with force
00:11:34.22\00:11:35.56
and this is what the
church did during the Dark Ages.
00:11:35.59\00:11:37.03
This is that
period after Rome fell,
00:11:37.06\00:11:40.06
we know that through Constantine
00:11:40.10\00:11:43.06
and we talked about
this in previous studies...
00:11:43.10\00:11:44.80
Constantine came upon the scene
00:11:44.83\00:11:46.77
and basically tried
to mix a secular society
00:11:46.80\00:11:51.97
with Christianity.
00:11:52.01\00:11:53.81
Iron... and clay...
00:11:53.84\00:11:55.58
and the clay
basically dominated the iron.
00:11:55.64\00:11:58.25
At first it was
the other way around...
00:11:58.28\00:12:00.85
iron persecuted
the people of God...
00:12:00.92\00:12:03.92
and now the
clay steps into power
00:12:03.95\00:12:06.89
and now they're basically
running the secular world
00:12:06.92\00:12:11.29
the then-known world
00:12:11.33\00:12:12.66
and so, the Bible goes on to say
00:12:12.69\00:12:14.93
that these powers would try
to mix together and would not
00:12:14.96\00:12:17.20
and we can look at
that in several ways,
00:12:17.27\00:12:19.23
number one is the fact
that these European kingdoms...
00:12:19.27\00:12:23.30
nations... try to
actually cleave together
00:12:23.34\00:12:27.21
through the intermingling...
00:12:27.24\00:12:28.58
James: Of their seed...
00:12:28.61\00:12:29.98
Ivor: Intermarriage...
but also the fact
00:12:30.01\00:12:33.31
that you cannot mix
the gospel with secularism.
00:12:33.35\00:12:39.42
All: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:12:39.45\00:12:40.79
Ivor: Right? Because
what ends up happening
00:12:40.82\00:12:42.16
is that you produce...
00:12:42.19\00:12:43.53
you actually sow
the seeds of skepticism
00:12:43.56\00:12:45.46
which leads to Atheism.
00:12:45.49\00:12:48.46
James: Hmmm...
hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:12:48.50\00:12:50.27
Ivor: And let us see that
this is actually what happens
00:12:50.30\00:12:52.53
down the road.
00:12:52.57\00:12:53.90
James: Yeah.
00:12:53.94\00:12:55.27
Ivor: Right? Because
of the secular and...
00:12:55.30\00:12:57.27
because of the
Churchcraft and Statecraft mix
00:12:57.31\00:12:59.74
during the Dark Ages,
00:12:59.77\00:13:01.31
it gave such a
perverted picture of who God was
00:13:01.34\00:13:04.21
that it
ultimately leads to Atheism
00:13:04.25\00:13:07.55
which in our previous
studies, you remember,
00:13:07.58\00:13:09.98
was symbolized by
Egypt... the king of the south.
00:13:10.02\00:13:16.26
Right, and so, what
you have happening is that
00:13:16.29\00:13:19.33
in the toes of Daniel chapter 2,
you have this strange mingling
00:13:19.36\00:13:25.93
of secularism and Christianity.
00:13:25.97\00:13:29.60
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:13:29.64\00:13:31.57
Ivor: King of the
north and king of the south.
00:13:31.61\00:13:33.17
We don't know
exactly what happens,
00:13:33.21\00:13:34.78
but we know that there is
something in this mix of yeah...
00:13:34.81\00:13:39.11
Secularism and... and
remember all this does...
00:13:39.15\00:13:41.68
is it actually
sets the way for us
00:13:41.72\00:13:43.85
to better understand Daniel 11,
00:13:43.89\00:13:45.59
because what is in Daniel 11...
is also in Daniel chapter 2.
00:13:45.62\00:13:49.86
James: Hmmm...
hmmm... Yvonne: Okay.
00:13:49.89\00:13:51.23
Ivor: And it's just mind blowing
00:13:51.26\00:13:52.89
so, I'm going to share
with you just another thought
00:13:52.93\00:13:54.90
because when the
Bible talks about the se...
00:13:54.93\00:13:57.57
and by the way, if you
have questions, please jump in,
00:13:57.60\00:13:59.93
because I know I'm
sharing a lot here,
00:13:59.97\00:14:03.30
but, when the Bible
says that in Daniel 2
00:14:03.34\00:14:06.64
that they will mingle
themselves with the seed of men,
00:14:06.68\00:14:09.01
and James, you and I
were talking about this
00:14:09.04\00:14:11.21
a little while ago, I
think we both saw this...
00:14:11.25\00:14:13.05
James: Yeah, verse 43... yeah.
00:14:13.08\00:14:14.68
Ivor: So, that term
"mingling with the seed of men"
00:14:14.72\00:14:18.15
it's a real strange
term, like, what do you mean?
00:14:18.19\00:14:20.92
"Mingling with the seed
of... " we're all men...
00:14:20.96\00:14:22.59
James: And we always
want to go to the Bible first,
00:14:22.62\00:14:24.26
we have a
historical basis that we use
00:14:24.29\00:14:26.16
and we talked about it just now
00:14:26.19\00:14:27.53
but it's good to go to the Bible
00:14:27.56\00:14:28.90
and find definition for that.
00:14:28.93\00:14:30.27
Ivor: Yeah, for... do you want
to... do you want to hit that
00:14:30.30\00:14:31.87
or do you want to go
to Genesis chapter...
00:14:31.90\00:14:33.23
James: You go ahead.
00:14:33.27\00:14:35.17
Ivor: All right, so, let me have
you go to Genesis chapter 6...
00:14:35.20\00:14:37.17
Genesis chapter 6
00:14:37.21\00:14:38.94
and we're going to
look at verses 1 and 2
00:14:38.97\00:14:41.34
because the
interesting thing is, James,
00:14:41.38\00:14:43.71
like, I've looked at that verse
00:14:43.75\00:14:45.18
and I've always just
kind of assumed like,
00:14:45.21\00:14:47.15
yeah, you know we're talking
about the mingling of the
00:14:47.18\00:14:50.12
kings during this time, right?
00:14:50.15\00:14:52.62
James: Oh the one in Daniel,
right, yeah, that's right.
00:14:52.65\00:14:55.59
Ivor: But when I was
thinking about this, I was like,
00:14:55.62\00:14:58.49
"mingling with the seed of men"
00:14:58.53\00:15:00.30
like, where does this idea
00:15:00.33\00:15:02.10
of mingling with the
seed of men come from?
00:15:02.13\00:15:03.70
James: And
Churchcraft and Statecraft.
00:15:03.73\00:15:05.07
Ivor: Yeah, Churchcraft
and Statecraft and...
00:15:05.10\00:15:06.50
and, you know, Churchcraft
is supposed to represent good...
00:15:06.53\00:15:09.07
Statecraft... you
know, nothing to do with God
00:15:09.10\00:15:11.64
where does this all come from?
00:15:11.67\00:15:13.64
and something just...
00:15:13.68\00:15:15.04
and I thought
about Genesis chapter 6,
00:15:15.08\00:15:17.08
and let's go ahead and
read Genesis 6 verses 1 and 2.
00:15:17.11\00:15:20.85
Jason: "Now it came to
pass, when men began to multiply
00:15:20.88\00:15:24.59
on the face of the earth,
00:15:24.62\00:15:25.95
and daughters were born to them,
00:15:25.99\00:15:27.72
that the sons of God
saw the daughters of men,
00:15:27.76\00:15:30.26
that they were beautiful;
00:15:30.33\00:15:31.66
and they took
wives for themselves
00:15:31.69\00:15:33.53
of all whom they chose. "
00:15:33.56\00:15:34.90
Ivor: Okay, the reason
that the flood occurs in...
00:15:34.93\00:15:40.00
in Genesis chapter 6 is because
00:15:40.04\00:15:42.37
the sons of God mingled
with the daughters of men.
00:15:42.40\00:15:46.88
James: Hmmm...
00:15:46.91\00:15:48.24
Ivor: The question is,
"Who were the sons of God?"
00:15:48.28\00:15:49.68
Some people say,
00:15:49.71\00:15:51.05
"Oh the sons of
God... they are angels...
00:15:51.08\00:15:52.61
and they came in to men... "
00:15:52.65\00:15:54.42
well, that's not
what the Bible is saying,
00:15:54.48\00:15:56.02
the sons of God
actually represent
00:15:56.05\00:15:57.72
those who are
supposed to be godly
00:15:57.75\00:15:59.35
while the sons of men would
represent those who were ungodly
00:15:59.39\00:16:03.59
right? those who rejected God.
00:16:03.63\00:16:05.83
So, this mingling of the seed...
00:16:05.86\00:16:08.10
mingling with... with
the "seed of men" idea
00:16:08.13\00:16:10.73
actually comes from Genesis 6
00:16:10.77\00:16:12.17
where you have the
supposedly "righteous"
00:16:12.20\00:16:15.57
mingling with those
who are not righteous.
00:16:15.60\00:16:18.87
James: Could I give a
Bible verse on this real quick?
00:16:18.91\00:16:20.58
Ivor: Say again...
00:16:20.61\00:16:21.94
James: Can I give a
Bible verse on this real quick?
00:16:21.98\00:16:24.28
So, in John chapter 1, it
talks about the sons of men
00:16:24.31\00:16:26.61
and the sons of God...
00:16:26.65\00:16:27.98
it gives a verse that
kind of clarifies this,
00:16:28.02\00:16:29.75
it says, "As many
as received Him... "
00:16:29.78\00:16:31.75
verse 12, "to them gave He power
00:16:31.82\00:16:33.42
to become the sons of God... "
00:16:33.46\00:16:35.06
who were the sons of God?
00:16:35.09\00:16:36.79
"even those who
believe on His name... "
00:16:36.83\00:16:40.76
so, these are believers...
00:16:40.80\00:16:42.13
these are believers...
00:16:42.16\00:16:43.50
Yvonne: Right... right...
00:16:43.53\00:16:44.87
James: And then it goes
on in verse 13 to clarify,
00:16:44.90\00:16:46.23
"Which were born, not of blood,
nor of the will of the flesh,
00:16:46.27\00:16:51.57
nor of the will
of man, but of God. "
00:16:51.61\00:16:53.04
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:16:53.07\00:16:54.41
James: So, that would
be the children of men.
00:16:54.44\00:16:55.78
So, the children of men would be
00:16:55.81\00:16:57.15
those who were
born of the flesh...
00:16:57.18\00:16:58.51
born of the will of man...
00:16:58.55\00:16:59.88
born of... of... of...
let's see... born of blood...
00:16:59.91\00:17:02.18
and the sons of God are
those that are believers.
00:17:02.22\00:17:04.72
So, that would be a Bible
verse that would clarify...
00:17:04.75\00:17:07.26
Ivor: Absolutely, so,
when we take this idea
00:17:07.29\00:17:10.53
back into Daniel
chapter 2, what we're seeing...
00:17:10.56\00:17:13.76
this mingling
with the seed of men
00:17:13.80\00:17:15.26
represents those who
were supposed to be "Godly"
00:17:15.30\00:17:19.67
the clay... mingling with
those who are rejecting God,
00:17:19.70\00:17:25.44
those who are secular...
00:17:25.47\00:17:26.81
those who, you know, have no...
00:17:26.84\00:17:28.34
no, you know, no
desire to follow God.
00:17:28.38\00:17:33.01
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:33.05\00:17:34.38
Ivor: So, here's the thing,
in Daniel 2 it actually says,
00:17:34.42\00:17:36.42
"they will mingle
with the seed of men... "
00:17:36.48\00:17:39.09
and that's again... it's
like, "Okay, seed of men...
00:17:39.12\00:17:41.82
who is 'they'
00:17:41.86\00:17:43.19
and how are they
mingling with the seed of men?"
00:17:43.22\00:17:45.53
We know that something is
going on with the seed of men.
00:17:45.56\00:17:49.06
It's not the seed of women...
00:17:49.10\00:17:50.57
it's the seed of men.
00:17:50.63\00:17:52.77
Yvonne: Right.
00:17:52.80\00:17:54.24
Ivor: So, then,
it's... it's indicating
00:17:54.27\00:17:56.14
that whoever this "they" is
00:17:56.17\00:17:57.84
God is speaking about
this "they" as if it's a woman
00:17:57.87\00:18:01.11
or women...
00:18:01.14\00:18:02.91
and what happens when we
go to Revelation chapter 17...
00:18:02.94\00:18:07.25
what do we read about?
00:18:07.28\00:18:08.82
We read about this woman
00:18:08.88\00:18:10.35
sitting on a
scarlet-colored beast...
00:18:10.39\00:18:12.45
having seven heads and ten horns
00:18:12.52\00:18:18.49
and this woman's
name is "Mystery Babylon"
00:18:18.53\00:18:22.30
king of the north...
00:18:22.36\00:18:23.83
Babylon... mother of harlots
00:18:23.87\00:18:27.14
and abominations
of the earth... why?
00:18:27.17\00:18:29.30
Because she has committed
fornication with the... who?
00:18:29.34\00:18:31.77
"Kings of the earth"
00:18:31.81\00:18:34.01
the kings of the earth.
00:18:34.08\00:18:37.01
So, Daniel 2 is referencing
00:18:37.05\00:18:39.95
what we have already
seen in Revelation, right?
00:18:39.98\00:18:42.45
This combining... somehow or
another Daniel 2 is telling us
00:18:42.48\00:18:46.25
that ultimately the
king of the north...
00:18:46.29\00:18:49.62
Babylon... is going to
take rule over everything
00:18:49.66\00:18:54.76
and it's a powerful
thought because this... hmmm...
00:18:54.80\00:18:59.83
what does the...
what destroys this...
00:18:59.87\00:19:03.44
James: The stone.
00:19:03.47\00:19:05.37
Ivor: The stone...
okay, where does the stone...
00:19:05.41\00:19:06.84
where does the
stone come out of?
00:19:06.88\00:19:08.21
Yvonne: Mountain.
00:19:08.24\00:19:09.58
James: Without hands...
00:19:09.61\00:19:10.98
Ivor: Yeah, it's cut out
of the mountain without hands,
00:19:11.01\00:19:12.45
right?
00:19:12.48\00:19:13.82
That's Christ
coming from something...
00:19:13.85\00:19:15.32
So, He's coming
from this mountain...
00:19:15.35\00:19:17.09
but what mountain
is He coming from?
00:19:17.12\00:19:18.75
James: Hmmm...
hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:19:18.79\00:19:20.36
James: Mount Zion...
00:19:20.42\00:19:22.46
Ivor: The Bible says that
God has laid a precious stone
00:19:22.49\00:19:26.09
in Zion... a cornerstone...
00:19:26.13\00:19:28.10
that's the stone... Jesus...
00:19:28.13\00:19:30.03
but the question is,
"Where is Mount Zion?"
00:19:30.07\00:19:32.83
Psalm 48 verse 1 and 2, if
someone can find that for me,
00:19:32.87\00:19:36.04
Psalm 48 verses 1 and 2...
00:19:36.07\00:19:38.87
James: We also need to
read Psalm 40 verses 1 and 2.
00:19:38.91\00:19:43.35
Yvonne: "Great is the
Lord, and greatly to be praised
00:19:43.38\00:19:47.75
in the city of our
God, in His holy mountain.
00:19:47.78\00:19:50.69
Beautiful in elevation,
00:19:50.72\00:19:52.69
the joy of the whole earth,
00:19:52.72\00:19:54.62
is Mount Zion on the
sides of the north... "
00:19:54.66\00:19:57.69
Ivor: So, I'm
asking the question?
00:19:57.73\00:19:59.89
Who is the true
king of the north?
00:19:59.93\00:20:02.36
James: God is. Yvonne: God, yes.
00:20:02.40\00:20:04.70
Ivor: When... when He comes...
00:20:04.73\00:20:06.97
the person of Jesus
Christ returns from Mount Zion,
00:20:07.00\00:20:11.04
as the true king of the
north, who is He coming against?
00:20:11.07\00:20:13.88
James: The
counterfeit king of the north.
00:20:13.91\00:20:15.54
Ivor: The
counterfeit king of the north.
00:20:15.58\00:20:17.21
Yvonne: Oooooooh!
00:20:17.25\00:20:18.81
Ivor: That's what
this is telling us.
00:20:18.85\00:20:20.22
James: "Who calls
himself the King of kings. "
00:20:20.25\00:20:22.32
Ivor: "Who calls
himself the King of kings. "
00:20:22.35\00:20:24.09
Yvonne: Wow!
00:20:24.12\00:20:25.45
Ivor: And the picture just
forms this complete idea of,
00:20:25.49\00:20:29.06
whoa, I'm beginning to
see why Michael stands up
00:20:29.09\00:20:32.49
because there's a counterfeit
that's deceiving people
00:20:32.53\00:20:35.90
and saying, "Yeah, I'm
the real king of the north. "
00:20:35.93\00:20:39.27
No, no, no, no, no...
00:20:39.30\00:20:40.74
by the way,
remember that we talked about
00:20:40.77\00:20:43.20
how
Nebuchadnezzar... in chapter 2
00:20:43.24\00:20:45.27
Nebuchadnezzar is
troubled by this dream?
00:20:45.31\00:20:47.08
Yvonne: Yes.
00:20:47.11\00:20:48.44
Ivor: So, let's
re-cap something real quick
00:20:48.48\00:20:49.84
our history...
00:20:49.88\00:20:51.81
Daniel... I'm
sorry... king of the south
00:20:51.85\00:20:55.82
we begin Daniel 1
with the king of the south
00:20:55.88\00:20:58.49
pushing against
the king of the north,
00:20:58.52\00:21:00.49
the king of the
north pushes back
00:21:00.56\00:21:02.46
against the king of
the south and defeats him.
00:21:02.49\00:21:04.86
Once he defeats him, he
turns his attention to Jerusalem
00:21:04.89\00:21:09.03
and when he turns his
attention to Jerusalem,
00:21:09.06\00:21:11.97
he is seeking to
enforce the "wine of Babylon"
00:21:12.00\00:21:14.87
right?
00:21:14.90\00:21:16.24
James: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:21:16.27\00:21:17.61
Ivor: But in Daniel chapter
2, the king is now troubled.
00:21:17.64\00:21:21.11
The king of the
north is troubled
00:21:21.14\00:21:23.14
by news that he hears from
the north and from the east
00:21:23.18\00:21:28.98
and so, what we're
seeing... this history...
00:21:29.02\00:21:32.22
this literal history of
Daniel 1 and now Daniel 2,
00:21:32.25\00:21:35.79
is actually helping
to set the foundation
00:21:35.82\00:21:38.76
for what we're going
to understand in Daniel 11
00:21:38.79\00:21:41.23
because everything is
leading up to Daniel 11.
00:21:41.26\00:21:43.37
Yvonne: Right.
00:21:43.40\00:21:44.73
James: He's troubled by the news
that he hears from the north
00:21:44.77\00:21:47.50
i e... the stone that's
coming from this mountain...
00:21:47.54\00:21:49.90
it's going to hit
the image on its feet...
00:21:49.94\00:21:51.27
and the east...
the other kingdom
00:21:51.31\00:21:52.77
is going to
surpass him and take over.
00:21:52.81\00:21:54.71
Ivor: Not only that but
remember, his kingdom...
00:21:54.74\00:21:58.21
literal kingdom of Babylon
was supposed to fall to Cyrus
00:21:58.25\00:22:03.35
and Cyrus... his armies came
from the north and the east,
00:22:03.39\00:22:08.42
the Medes were from the north
00:22:08.49\00:22:09.89
and the Persians
were from the east,
00:22:09.92\00:22:12.29
so the combining
of those two powers...
00:22:12.36\00:22:15.10
Nebuchadnezzar is
basically troubled
00:22:15.13\00:22:17.83
by news that he hears
literally from the north
00:22:17.87\00:22:20.87
and from the east
00:22:20.90\00:22:22.60
that Cyrus is coming...
00:22:22.64\00:22:24.17
he doesn't... I don't
know if he knows him by name
00:22:24.21\00:22:26.24
but that this man,
Cyrus, is coming to...
00:22:26.27\00:22:29.01
or this kingdom is
coming to overthrow his kingdom.
00:22:29.04\00:22:32.15
James: He's seen the dream...
00:22:32.18\00:22:33.52
he doesn't
understand it but he's seen it
00:22:33.55\00:22:35.25
and he is the head of gold
00:22:35.28\00:22:36.62
and he realizes the rest of that
image is not going to be gold
00:22:36.65\00:22:40.16
so, it's troubling him and he
understands the implications...
00:22:40.19\00:22:43.66
he's a smart
man so this verse...
00:22:43.73\00:22:46.19
I don't know if... I
mean Psalm 40 verses 1 and 2
00:22:46.23\00:22:50.03
read verse 3 also
00:22:50.07\00:22:53.44
and I just want you to
think about this in relationship
00:22:53.47\00:22:55.90
to Revelation as
well as to Daniel
00:22:55.97\00:22:57.77
and everything you've
been talking about on events.
00:22:57.81\00:22:59.97
Jason: Okay, "I waited
patiently for the Lord;
00:23:00.01\00:23:03.24
and He inclined to
me, and heard my cry.
00:23:03.28\00:23:05.85
He also brought me up
out of a horrible pit,
00:23:05.88\00:23:08.45
out of the miry clay,
00:23:08.48\00:23:10.42
and set my feet upon a rock,
00:23:10.49\00:23:12.62
and established my steps.
00:23:12.65\00:23:14.76
He has put a new
song in my mouth...
00:23:14.79\00:23:17.13
praise to our God;
00:23:17.19\00:23:18.53
many will see it and fear,
and will trust in the Lord. "
00:23:18.56\00:23:22.30
James: This is Three
Angels' Message right here,
00:23:22.33\00:23:24.57
this is the
Three Angels' Message.
00:23:24.60\00:23:25.93
So, the patience of the saints
who keep the commandments of God
00:23:25.97\00:23:29.20
and have the faith of Jesus
00:23:29.24\00:23:30.57
because they have been brought
out of the horrible pit...
00:23:30.61\00:23:34.14
out of the miry clay...
00:23:34.18\00:23:35.51
Churchcraft and Statecraft
are uniting in the end of time
00:23:35.54\00:23:38.81
enforcing the
mark... enforcing worship...
00:23:38.85\00:23:41.45
no one can buy or sell...
they've been pulled out of that,
00:23:41.48\00:23:44.09
they believe the gospel...
they hear of the gospel...
00:23:44.12\00:23:46.76
they trust and
have patience in Jesus
00:23:46.79\00:23:48.66
and then they sing a new song.
00:23:48.69\00:23:50.26
He's put a new song in their
mouth... even praise to God
00:23:50.29\00:23:52.86
and many will see it and fear...
fear God and give glory to Him
00:23:52.89\00:23:57.13
many will see it and
fear... trust in the Lord.
00:23:57.17\00:23:58.93
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:23:58.97\00:24:00.30
James: So, this is a summation.
00:24:00.34\00:24:01.77
When we look at prophecy again,
00:24:01.80\00:24:03.27
we want to emphasize that
prophecy is very practical,
00:24:03.30\00:24:05.67
I mean, with all
these prophetic symbolism
00:24:05.74\00:24:07.51
but it's talking
about our experience...
00:24:07.54\00:24:09.24
it's talking about the patience
that God wants us to have
00:24:09.28\00:24:11.95
waiting for him,
00:24:11.98\00:24:13.31
it's talking about
He is going to pull us
00:24:13.35\00:24:14.68
out of this last conflict...
00:24:14.72\00:24:16.05
pull us out of that miry clay
00:24:16.08\00:24:17.42
and the
compromise that takes place
00:24:17.45\00:24:18.82
and He's going to put a
new song in our hearts...
00:24:18.85\00:24:21.02
He's going to set us
on the rock Christ Jesus,
00:24:21.06\00:24:23.19
and many people
are going to see it
00:24:23.22\00:24:24.89
and fear and
trust in the Lord...
00:24:24.93\00:24:26.53
many people will be
turned to the Lord because of...
00:24:26.59\00:24:28.10
so, all of this prophecy is...
00:24:28.13\00:24:29.56
in a sense what we've
been talking about here...
00:24:29.60\00:24:31.43
is summarized in those
three verses right there,
00:24:31.47\00:24:33.23
isn't that beautiful?
Jason: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:24:33.27\00:24:34.60
Yvonne: So, is
the miry clay then
00:24:34.64\00:24:37.37
a reference to the feet, maybe?
00:24:37.41\00:24:39.64
James: Yeah, the
reference to the feet,
00:24:39.67\00:24:41.01
that's where the miry clay is,
00:24:41.04\00:24:42.38
it's right there in the feet...
00:24:42.41\00:24:43.75
these are the last days when
everything is being mired up,
00:24:43.78\00:24:46.21
everything is being confused...
00:24:46.25\00:24:47.58
Churchcraft and
Statecraft have been combined
00:24:47.62\00:24:49.35
and we have all
the religious elements
00:24:49.38\00:24:51.15
being enforced
by civil elements...
00:24:51.19\00:24:52.92
that's where we're going to...
the direction we're heading...
00:24:52.95\00:24:54.82
and God... we're going
to wait patiently for Him
00:24:54.86\00:24:56.99
and God is going to
pull us out of all of that...
00:24:57.03\00:24:59.16
put that new
song in our hearts...
00:24:59.19\00:25:00.60
cause us to stand on
the rock, Christ Jesus.
00:25:00.63\00:25:02.93
So, what's going to
happen in the secular world
00:25:02.96\00:25:05.73
and what happens in
previous secular world history
00:25:05.77\00:25:08.50
is that people look
to religion for a fix...
00:25:08.54\00:25:11.37
they're looking to
fix what's happening...
00:25:11.41\00:25:14.18
the judgments...
the calamities...
00:25:14.24\00:25:15.98
the immorality...
00:25:16.01\00:25:17.35
they're looking to... to
get civil power to help fix it
00:25:17.38\00:25:20.22
and the "fix" is in the gospel,
the "fix" is in Jesus Christ
00:25:20.25\00:25:23.05
and so, that's the
summary here that we're seeing
00:25:23.08\00:25:26.86
here in Psalm 40
verses 1 through 3.
00:25:26.89\00:25:28.52
Ivor: Yeah, I
think the bottom line is,
00:25:28.56\00:25:31.19
you can't use
force to convert people.
00:25:31.23\00:25:32.93
James: Hmmm...
Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:25:32.96\00:25:34.60
Ivor: Right, you
can't depend upon...
00:25:34.66\00:25:36.20
and that's what
Christianity is doing today,
00:25:36.26\00:25:38.33
they're seeking to
convert people by passing laws
00:25:38.37\00:25:42.97
that make you be...
00:25:43.00\00:25:45.57
you know, you
have to be righteous,
00:25:45.61\00:25:47.24
you have to
follow the way of God
00:25:47.28\00:25:48.84
and I think, just
trying to set up a society
00:25:48.88\00:25:51.28
and really,
that's what people...
00:25:51.31\00:25:52.98
so many Christians
are after, you know,
00:25:53.01\00:25:55.12
thinking that a
society will be good
00:25:55.18\00:25:57.22
if we implement Christian
laws and that's just...
00:25:57.25\00:25:59.49
that's just using force to
try to convert outward behavior
00:25:59.52\00:26:02.62
and this is what Daniel 2
is speaking against, right?
00:26:02.66\00:26:05.69
You cannot
convert through force.
00:26:05.73\00:26:08.36
It must be through the
work of the Holy Spirit.
00:26:08.40\00:26:10.93
James: Now, that wouldn't
undermine the idea of...
00:26:10.97\00:26:13.44
of enforcing
morality. Ivor: That's right.
00:26:13.50\00:26:14.90
James: Morality is a good thing,
00:26:14.94\00:26:16.27
in fact, Paul even
talks about this in Romans 13,
00:26:16.30\00:26:18.14
he distinguishes
between the civil powers
00:26:18.17\00:26:21.24
that are established
by God to enforce morality
00:26:21.28\00:26:24.31
and he quotes that a
number of commandments
00:26:24.35\00:26:27.05
have to do with the
last six commandments
00:26:27.08\00:26:29.68
but he never quotes
the first four commandments
00:26:29.72\00:26:31.92
which have to do
with worshiping God
00:26:31.95\00:26:33.76
and enforcing worship.
00:26:33.79\00:26:35.12
Now, a lot of
religions do that today
00:26:35.16\00:26:36.79
in a lot of different countries
worship is mandatory...
00:26:36.83\00:26:39.03
it's forced or, you
know, you face major penalties
00:26:39.06\00:26:42.63
and the history of
Christianity has also done that
00:26:42.90\00:26:45.13
and what Bible
prophecy is predicting
00:26:45.17\00:26:47.57
is that we're going to implement
that on a stronger level
00:26:47.60\00:26:50.77
into our future.
00:26:50.81\00:26:52.14
United States of
America is a country
00:26:52.17\00:26:54.11
that really has established the
separation of Church and State
00:26:54.14\00:26:56.95
but there's a lot of
people and Christians especially
00:26:56.98\00:27:00.82
that are... are
questioning that.
00:27:00.85\00:27:02.68
Should it really be separated?
00:27:02.72\00:27:04.49
And one of the
reasons I think is
00:27:04.52\00:27:06.62
because of the
increasing immorality
00:27:06.65\00:27:08.66
and because we don't
understand the difference
00:27:08.72\00:27:10.79
between enforcing moral laws
00:27:10.83\00:27:12.46
that have to do with
the last six commandments
00:27:12.49\00:27:14.56
and how we relate to each other
00:27:14.60\00:27:15.93
and enforcing worship
00:27:15.96\00:27:17.30
which has to do
with how we relate to God
00:27:17.33\00:27:18.90
and if we can
distinguish those two,
00:27:18.93\00:27:20.87
I think we can find
that... strike a good balance
00:27:20.90\00:27:22.87
but this
last-day power of prophecy
00:27:22.90\00:27:25.11
is not interested in
striking a balance...
00:27:25.14\00:27:27.71
it's like, you swing
from one level of immorality
00:27:27.74\00:27:30.55
to another level of enforcement.
00:27:30.58\00:27:31.91
Ivor: And the powerful thing is
00:27:31.95\00:27:33.28
that you see it as
being fulfilled today
00:27:33.31\00:27:35.05
which means that
Daniel accurately prophesied
00:27:35.08\00:27:39.49
over 25 hundred years
of history in advance.
00:27:39.55\00:27:43.19
So, give or take 600
years from the skeptic,
00:27:43.22\00:27:47.83
all right, we'll do 2000
years, instead of 2,500... yeah.
00:27:47.86\00:27:52.43
James: But, we are
there... we are there,
00:27:52.47\00:27:54.10
praise God and we are also there
00:27:54.14\00:27:56.04
as far as time goes, so,
we'll pick this up next time.
00:27:56.07\00:27:58.64
Yvonne: Good segue.
00:27:58.67\00:28:00.81