So we left off in
Romans chapter 13,
00:00:30.63\00:00:33.43
now it's really good because
Roman 13... Revelation 13...
00:00:33.50\00:00:37.43
it will be easy
for us to remember
00:00:37.47\00:00:39.37
so that we can put
these two chapters together...
00:00:39.40\00:00:41.57
we've got to put
these two chapters together
00:00:41.60\00:00:43.71
because what's happening in
the world today is imbalance
00:00:43.74\00:00:48.28
it's extremism... it's
reaction of one of two extremes
00:00:48.34\00:00:52.85
and what God is
calling us to in Romans 13
00:00:52.88\00:00:55.38
gives us a good
outline of this... is balance.
00:00:55.42\00:00:57.85
How do we relate
to civil government
00:00:57.89\00:00:59.89
and how does the Christian
or the believer relate to laws
00:00:59.92\00:01:04.79
so that we're not totally
00:01:04.83\00:01:07.53
abandoning the morality,
00:01:07.56\00:01:10.23
the civil government...
supporting the government
00:01:10.27\00:01:12.00
and at the same time
we're not going to the extreme
00:01:12.03\00:01:13.54
and forcing religious laws
00:01:13.57\00:01:15.30
upon people who want
religious... whatsoever,
00:01:15.34\00:01:18.67
how do we call that
or walk that balance?
00:01:18.71\00:01:21.48
How do we...
00:01:21.51\00:01:22.84
how do we make sure we're
in line with the principles
00:01:22.88\00:01:25.55
of civil government
and at the same time...
00:01:25.61\00:01:27.58
we're in line with
the principles of heaven?
00:01:27.62\00:01:29.55
And I think Paul is...
00:01:29.58\00:01:30.99
that's what Paul is
outlining for us in Romans 13,
00:01:31.02\00:01:32.69
so we need to start
with a word of prayer
00:01:32.75\00:01:34.76
and we'll just pick up
where we left off in Romans 13,
00:01:34.79\00:01:36.73
Jason, would you pray for us?
00:01:36.76\00:01:38.13
Sure, "Dear
Heavenly Father, we thank you
00:01:38.19\00:01:40.86
that we have the chance
to study your Word again
00:01:40.90\00:01:43.50
as we continue to dig
deeper into Revelation,
00:01:43.53\00:01:46.03
we ask that you would
help us to fully understand it,
00:01:46.07\00:01:49.37
retain the
information that we're studying
00:01:49.40\00:01:51.31
and please be with
our Viewers as well,
00:01:51.34\00:01:53.24
send the Holy
Spirit to be with us
00:01:53.27\00:01:54.81
and to be with them, in
Jesus' name we pray, amen. "
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All: "Amen. "
00:01:56.64\00:01:57.98
And James, before
you jump in there,
00:01:58.01\00:02:00.22
I think it would be good for us
to kind of re-cap a little bit
00:02:00.28\00:02:02.98
of how we're getting
to Romans chapter 13.
00:02:03.02\00:02:06.05
James: Okay.
00:02:06.09\00:02:07.86
Ivor: So, we were
looking at the lamb-like beast
00:02:07.89\00:02:10.26
in our last program, we
talked about the lamb-like beast
00:02:10.33\00:02:14.10
and how this is actually a
symbol of apostate Protestantism
00:02:14.13\00:02:17.90
"horns like a lamb...
speaks like a dragon... "
00:02:17.93\00:02:20.57
and so we began to talk
about the relevance of it today.
00:02:20.60\00:02:26.84
Okay, how we see two elements
emerging in our Country,
00:02:26.88\00:02:33.01
this polarization...
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you have people who
are either anti-religious
00:02:34.98\00:02:37.02
or people who are religious
and want to use the Government
00:02:37.05\00:02:41.82
to enforce their
particular view of religion
00:02:41.89\00:02:45.23
and we talked about how
these two sides are basically
00:02:45.26\00:02:49.36
going further and further apart
00:02:49.40\00:02:52.27
and you see this anger,
this... you know... just unrest
00:02:52.30\00:02:58.44
as it were,
by-the-way, by-the-way...
00:02:58.47\00:03:00.54
it is this... the continuance
of this kind of anger
00:03:00.58\00:03:06.51
that is going to
really set the stage
00:03:06.55\00:03:08.52
for the counterfeit
appearing of Christ,
00:03:08.55\00:03:10.42
just to let you know...
this... when the world is like,
00:03:10.45\00:03:14.19
because, the world is going
to be crying out for peace...
00:03:14.26\00:03:17.96
right... things
are going to get so bad
00:03:17.99\00:03:20.70
we need peace and we need safety
00:03:20.73\00:03:23.06
and the one who is
going to come with the answer
00:03:23.10\00:03:25.13
for peace and
safety is Satan himself.
00:03:25.17\00:03:28.07
Hmmm...
00:03:28.10\00:03:29.44
Okay, but, we'll get there,
00:03:29.47\00:03:31.17
but the whole idea is
that we've got these two issues
00:03:31.24\00:03:33.78
of a group of people
saying, "Hey, as Christians,
00:03:33.81\00:03:36.41
we should have nothing
to do with the Government
00:03:36.44\00:03:38.75
because the
Government is evil... "
00:03:38.78\00:03:42.08
right, you have other
Christians who are like...
00:03:42.12\00:03:45.05
other people who are like,
00:03:45.09\00:03:46.62
"Hey, as Christians
00:03:46.65\00:03:48.69
we need to totally
take over the Government,
00:03:48.72\00:03:50.63
we need to...
00:03:50.66\00:03:53.16
there's no such thing as
separation of Church and State,
00:03:53.19\00:03:55.60
we need to rue... turn
this nation back to God
00:03:55.63\00:03:59.17
and this is how we do it... "
00:03:59.20\00:04:00.54
and on the third
hand you have people
00:04:00.57\00:04:02.34
who are just
against religion altogether
00:04:02.37\00:04:04.34
so, those are the three elements
where we're looking at balance
00:04:04.37\00:04:07.28
as we jump into
Romans chapter 10
00:04:07.31\00:04:09.24
we see, "Okay,
how as Christians...
00:04:09.28\00:04:11.25
how do you respond?
00:04:11.28\00:04:12.61
James: Romans
13... Ivor: Romans 13...
00:04:12.65\00:04:13.98
James: Yeah.
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:04:14.02\00:04:15.35
James: And what's
really interesting here,
00:04:15.38\00:04:16.72
maybe we can just start
by reading the first verses,
00:04:16.75\00:04:18.62
we didn't read the first verses,
00:04:18.65\00:04:19.99
we need to get the
context of Romans 13
00:04:20.02\00:04:22.22
so, let's read Romans
13, beginning with verse 1,
00:04:22.26\00:04:26.13
Yvonne, can you
start there for us?
00:04:26.16\00:04:28.16
Yvonne: Sure.
00:04:28.20\00:04:29.53
James: And let's just read
all the way through to verse 5.
00:04:29.56\00:04:31.63
Yvonne: Okay, Romans 13:1,
00:04:31.67\00:04:36.50
"Let every soul be subject
to the governing authorities.
00:04:36.54\00:04:39.41
For there's no
authority except from God:
00:04:39.44\00:04:41.88
and the authorities that
exist are appointed by God.
00:04:41.91\00:04:44.75
Therefore, whoever
resists the authority,
00:04:44.78\00:04:47.62
resists the ordinance of God:
00:04:47.65\00:04:49.38
and those who resist will
bring judgment on themselves.
00:04:49.42\00:04:52.82
For rulers are not a terror
to good works, but to evil. "
00:04:52.85\00:04:56.12
Let me read that again,
00:04:56.16\00:04:57.86
"For rulers are not a terror
to good works, but to evil.
00:04:57.89\00:05:01.23
Do you want to be
unafraid of the authority?
00:05:01.26\00:05:03.97
do what is good,
00:05:04.00\00:05:05.33
and you will have
praise from the same.
00:05:05.37\00:05:07.60
For he is God's
minister to you for good
00:05:07.64\00:05:09.97
but if you do evil, be afraid;
00:05:10.01\00:05:11.94
for he does not
bear the sword in vain:
00:05:11.97\00:05:14.34
for he is God's minister,
00:05:14.38\00:05:16.21
an avenger to execute
wrath on him who practices evil.
00:05:16.24\00:05:19.98
Therefore, you must be subject
not only because of wrath,
00:05:20.02\00:05:23.72
but also for conscience sake. "
00:05:23.75\00:05:25.69
James: So, this is amazing
when you think about this
00:05:25.75\00:05:29.12
because Paul is
talking here and the context is
00:05:29.16\00:05:32.39
total context about
the Pagan Roman Government
00:05:32.43\00:05:35.60
and that
Government was not supportive
00:05:35.63\00:05:38.07
of the new "Christian"
faith... or belief...
00:05:38.13\00:05:40.74
but Paul here is
saying, "Hey, basically,
00:05:40.80\00:05:43.07
God sets up rulers
and He brings down rulers
00:05:43.10\00:05:45.31
and these guys have a job
that they're supposed to do
00:05:45.37\00:05:48.31
and a job that's
assigned to them of God
00:05:48.34\00:05:50.58
and their job is...
to take care of evil...
00:05:50.61\00:05:52.85
and so, if you do what's good,
00:05:52.88\00:05:55.08
you don't have to
be afraid of them... "
00:05:55.12\00:05:56.45
now, it may be as Paul
is saying that these powers
00:05:56.48\00:05:59.59
that are supposed
to take care of evil
00:05:59.62\00:06:01.02
might be even
persecuting the good,
00:06:01.06\00:06:02.42
but that's something
you leave with the Lord,
00:06:02.49\00:06:05.63
the main thing is, and
he's giving it out here
00:06:05.69\00:06:08.46
in verse 6,
00:06:08.50\00:06:09.83
the main thing is... is
that we need to be good citizens
00:06:09.86\00:06:12.40
so he says in verse six...
00:06:12.43\00:06:13.77
"For this cause
pay tribute also:
00:06:13.80\00:06:16.07
for they are God's ministers,
00:06:16.10\00:06:17.44
attending continually on
this very thing. Therefore... "
00:06:17.47\00:06:19.41
verse seven... "Render
therefore to all their dues:
00:06:19.47\00:06:21.58
tribute to whom tribute is
due; custom to whom custom;
00:06:21.61\00:06:23.71
fear to whom fear:
honour to whom honour. "
00:06:23.75\00:06:25.55
In other words, we
need to pay our taxes
00:06:25.58\00:06:27.35
and so, that brings up an issue,
00:06:27.38\00:06:30.62
and the issue would
be... in our current society...
00:06:30.65\00:06:33.86
the issue would be abortion,
00:06:33.89\00:06:35.22
now, I'm just
going to bring this up
00:06:35.26\00:06:37.96
just to be able to
help us to understand
00:06:37.99\00:06:40.70
the practical instruction that
Paul is giving here, abortion...
00:06:40.73\00:06:43.10
So, some might say, "Well,
I don't want to pay my taxes
00:06:43.13\00:06:46.47
because the Government is using
tax dollars to fund abortion
00:06:46.50\00:06:50.57
through Planned Parenthood
so I don't want to pay my taxes"
00:06:50.61\00:06:54.64
Paul is saying, "No,
you need to pay your taxes"
00:06:54.68\00:06:58.08
but that doesn't mean
that we cannot, as Christians,
00:06:58.11\00:07:01.32
be against abortion and
even, in a political sense,
00:07:01.35\00:07:04.49
if we have an opportunity,
vote for whatever kind of bill
00:07:04.55\00:07:10.36
might be coming up that
would be against abortion,
00:07:10.39\00:07:13.90
so we can be politically
engaged, Paul is saying here,
00:07:13.93\00:07:17.40
we can be politically engaged
00:07:17.43\00:07:18.93
and we should pay
our dues and our taxes
00:07:18.97\00:07:20.67
as long as it has to do...
we read these verses already...
00:07:20.70\00:07:23.71
with all of the commandments
00:07:23.77\00:07:25.97
relating to how we
relate to our fellowman,
00:07:26.01\00:07:28.14
"Love thy
neighbor as thyself... "
00:07:28.18\00:07:30.31
okay, so, if you love
your neighbor as yourself,
00:07:30.35\00:07:33.35
you don't want to
kill the unborn immigrants,
00:07:33.38\00:07:36.38
you know there's a lot of
talk about immigration today,
00:07:36.42\00:07:39.05
so there are immigrants
00:07:39.09\00:07:40.42
that are trying to immigrate
into our country from mothers
00:07:40.46\00:07:45.89
they're unborn immigrants...
00:07:45.93\00:07:47.83
we don't want to
deny them access,
00:07:47.86\00:07:50.50
we don't want to allow
them or cause them to die,
00:07:50.53\00:07:56.60
so we want to support
legislation that says...
00:07:56.64\00:07:59.04
that's for life... pro-life...
as Christians we can do that.
00:07:59.07\00:08:03.14
Any commandment that has to do
00:08:03.18\00:08:05.55
with how we
relate to our neighbor,
00:08:05.61\00:08:07.32
we can support politically
but what Paul leaves out of this
00:08:07.35\00:08:11.05
is the first four
commandments, never touches them
00:08:11.09\00:08:14.32
it's really
interesting because in verse 9,
00:08:14.36\00:08:17.46
we looked at this already
but just... one more time,
00:08:17.49\00:08:18.99
we'll look at it again,
00:08:19.03\00:08:20.36
"For this, Thou
shalt not commit adultery"
00:08:20.40\00:08:22.33
okay, "Thou shalt not kill...
00:08:22.36\00:08:24.53
Thou shalt not
bear false witness... "
00:08:24.57\00:08:28.30
so you've got
commandment number seven,
00:08:28.34\00:08:31.97
commandment number six,
commandment number nine,
00:08:32.01\00:08:34.41
"Thou shalt not covet"
commandment number ten,
00:08:34.44\00:08:36.81
and then he goes on...
00:08:36.85\00:08:39.25
he's done naming
specific commandments
00:08:39.28\00:08:40.92
so then he goes
on and he summarizes,
00:08:40.95\00:08:42.52
and he says, "and if there
be any other commandment... "
00:08:42.55\00:08:44.85
well, are there
other commandments?
00:08:44.89\00:08:46.22
Other than number six,
number seven, number eight,
00:08:46.25\00:08:48.62
number nine... are
there other commandments?
00:08:48.66\00:08:49.99
Yvonne and
James: One through four.
00:08:50.03\00:08:51.36
James: Then he says, "if
there be any other commandment,
00:08:51.39\00:08:53.33
it is briefly comprehended
in this saying, namely,
00:08:53.36\00:08:55.73
Thou shalt love thy
neighbor as thyself. "
00:08:55.76\00:08:58.93
Do those other
four commandments...
00:08:58.97\00:09:00.80
are they
comprehended in that one phrase,
00:09:00.84\00:09:02.87
"Thou shalt love thy
neighbor as thyself?"
00:09:02.90\00:09:04.91
No... they're not...
00:09:04.94\00:09:06.47
they're
summarized with the phrase,
00:09:06.51\00:09:08.74
"Thou shalt love
the Lord thy God...
00:09:08.78\00:09:10.51
with all thy
heart, mind and soul... "
00:09:10.55\00:09:12.21
so, notice this, he
is very intentional about
00:09:12.25\00:09:16.08
leaving out the
first four commandments
00:09:16.12\00:09:17.65
and then when he summarizes,
he's very intentional
00:09:17.69\00:09:20.12
about not allowing that summary
00:09:20.16\00:09:22.69
to apply to the
first four commandments
00:09:22.72\00:09:24.99
because Paul is
making a point here
00:09:25.03\00:09:27.06
that we have
incorporated in this nation
00:09:27.10\00:09:29.40
going way back to
the very beginning
00:09:29.46\00:09:31.53
and that point is actually
revealed, in, for example,
00:09:31.57\00:09:36.47
an etching in the Supreme Court
of the United States of America
00:09:36.50\00:09:38.97
if you go in the building,
00:09:39.01\00:09:40.34
there's an etching
there of the Justices...
00:09:40.38\00:09:42.01
and in that etching,
there's the Ten Commandments
00:09:42.04\00:09:44.85
there are the two
plaques... are there...
00:09:44.88\00:09:47.18
and one of the
Justices has his leg
00:09:47.22\00:09:50.29
that completely obscures
00:09:50.32\00:09:52.12
the first table of
the Ten Commandments
00:09:52.15\00:09:54.39
in other words,
they're... you can't see them...
00:09:54.42\00:09:57.53
they're not there... because
the way the etching is set up
00:09:57.56\00:10:00.30
the leg of the
Justice is covering it
00:10:00.33\00:10:02.86
and the second
table of the commandments
00:10:02.90\00:10:05.47
is completely open
to view and the point is
00:10:05.50\00:10:07.84
the Supreme Court of
the United States of America
00:10:07.87\00:10:10.17
can rule on all
those commandments
00:10:10.21\00:10:12.37
that have to do with
how we treat one another
00:10:12.41\00:10:14.11
but it cannot rule
on those commandments
00:10:14.14\00:10:16.21
that have to do
with how we worship God,
00:10:16.24\00:10:18.11
I'm not saying that
it can't rule on them,
00:10:18.15\00:10:19.95
it can in the sense that
it wouldn't enforce them,
00:10:19.98\00:10:22.48
it would
protect against any laws
00:10:22.52\00:10:24.99
that would be violating
these first four commandments
00:10:25.05\00:10:27.39
so it's covered up, in the sense
that we do not enforce laws,
00:10:27.42\00:10:30.66
we do not support laws
00:10:30.69\00:10:32.03
that would deal with
these first four commandments,
00:10:32.06\00:10:33.63
it's exactly the same
thing that Paul is saying
00:10:33.66\00:10:35.46
in Romans chapter
13... the same thing.
00:10:35.50\00:10:38.07
So, for this
balance what we would say is
00:10:38.10\00:10:40.54
as we look at the
political scenario and agenda
00:10:40.57\00:10:44.47
we would say,
00:10:44.51\00:10:45.84
"If there's any
law that has to do with
00:10:45.87\00:10:47.91
how we treat our neighbors,
00:10:47.94\00:10:49.74
we can be
supportive of that law... "
00:10:49.78\00:10:51.61
we can vote for a
law that's in harmony
00:10:51.65\00:10:53.58
with the
principles of the Law of God.
00:10:53.62\00:10:55.48
Yvonne: Right.
00:10:55.52\00:10:56.85
James: But, if there's
a law that's being pushed
00:10:56.89\00:10:59.35
that has to do
with how we worship God,
00:10:59.42\00:11:01.16
we can't support that...
we have to back away from that
00:11:01.22\00:11:03.32
and this is where the
confusion is coming in...
00:11:03.36\00:11:05.79
I think... in religion today
00:11:05.86\00:11:08.00
because what you
see happening is...
00:11:08.03\00:11:11.17
we have
Christians who are not...
00:11:11.20\00:11:14.24
who are feeling that they
can't be involved with politics
00:11:14.27\00:11:16.71
when it comes to
those last six commandments,
00:11:16.74\00:11:18.31
so they feel like,
00:11:18.34\00:11:19.67
"Awww... we can't really
vote against abortion because
00:11:19.71\00:11:22.54
that would be a
violation of religious liberty
00:11:22.58\00:11:24.61
for other people who
want to have abortions. "
00:11:24.65\00:11:27.45
"We can't really vote
against same-sex marriage
00:11:27.48\00:11:30.29
because that would be
00:11:30.32\00:11:32.15
a violation of
religious principles
00:11:32.19\00:11:33.52
that have to do with people
who want same-sex marriage. "
00:11:33.56\00:11:36.19
Well, according to the
Bible, that's not true.
00:11:36.22\00:11:38.23
According to the
Bible, we actually can...
00:11:38.29\00:11:40.26
we can vote against those laws
00:11:40.30\00:11:42.46
that violate the
principles that we believe
00:11:42.50\00:11:44.27
are part of the
last six commandments,
00:11:44.30\00:11:46.63
we can do that
without compromising
00:11:46.70\00:11:49.00
"religious liberty"
00:11:49.04\00:11:50.54
but when the
compromise takes place...
00:11:50.57\00:11:52.77
is when we start voting for,
00:11:52.81\00:11:54.58
and being politically active,
00:11:54.61\00:11:56.34
in laws that have to do with
the first four commandments.
00:11:56.38\00:11:58.11
Yvonne: But you know
what ends up happening is
00:11:58.15\00:12:01.08
each... and I don't
want to get too political
00:12:01.15\00:12:04.05
but each party has its platform
00:12:04.09\00:12:06.76
and so one can say,
00:12:06.82\00:12:10.83
"Well, I like these
things that this party supports
00:12:10.86\00:12:14.90
but not this. "
00:12:14.93\00:12:16.26
And so, what you
find yourself doing is
00:12:16.30\00:12:18.83
you end up aligning
yourself with a party that...
00:12:18.87\00:12:22.07
whose total platform
you might not embrace,
00:12:22.10\00:12:25.17
so, then you
have to... you know...
00:12:25.21\00:12:28.38
if you can vote on
issues, that's the way to do it
00:12:28.41\00:12:33.52
but because
there's this polarization
00:12:33.55\00:12:37.12
here in this Country and you're
either Democrat or Republican...
00:12:37.15\00:12:40.99
James: Take all
of it or none of it.
00:12:41.02\00:12:42.69
Yvonne: And
that's the... that's...
00:12:42.72\00:12:44.33
that's where it becomes a flaw,
00:12:44.39\00:12:46.03
if we could vote issues,
00:12:46.06\00:12:47.50
I think, we'd all be
like, "That's great... "
00:12:47.53\00:12:49.90
but we can't really vote issues
without embracing the platform.
00:12:49.93\00:12:56.14
James: Things that
we don't believe in.
00:12:56.17\00:12:57.74
Yvonne: Exactly... as
Christians it does call for us
00:12:57.77\00:13:02.41
to really be... to really
see God on what we're doing
00:13:02.44\00:13:07.02
and to focus on
what... as you said James...
00:13:07.05\00:13:10.69
what the Bible is saying,
00:13:10.72\00:13:12.69
we have to focus on the
principles of the Bible,
00:13:12.72\00:13:14.92
does the Bible
say that this is okay?
00:13:14.96\00:13:17.86
if it doesn't...
then no matter...
00:13:17.89\00:13:20.73
whether we embrace other
parts of this party or not
00:13:20.76\00:13:23.87
if the Bible says,
"No... " then it's no...
00:13:23.90\00:13:26.67
and that's what we have
to do as Christians, I think,
00:13:26.70\00:13:29.90
because otherwise
we... we can get so caught up
00:13:29.94\00:13:33.11
into what's going on
00:13:33.17\00:13:34.64
and I think it's an
important discussion
00:13:34.68\00:13:36.44
because we're
looking at the relevance
00:13:36.51\00:13:38.21
of these Scriptures as it
pertains to current events
00:13:38.28\00:13:42.45
and I just feel
like we have to give...
00:13:42.48\00:13:46.19
we just have to
stay in the Word...
00:13:46.22\00:13:49.42
because the Word is telling us,
00:13:49.46\00:13:51.89
"This is the
way, walk ye therein
00:13:51.93\00:13:54.30
these things are
okay... these things are not. "
00:13:54.33\00:13:56.77
So, I think if we can... if
we could deal with just issues
00:13:56.83\00:14:00.57
that would be...
that will be great.
00:14:00.60\00:14:02.40
Ivor: I think that
it's... like I said earlier...
00:14:02.44\00:14:07.31
this entire... the
turmoil that we see going on
00:14:07.34\00:14:12.18
is actually prophetic,
00:14:12.21\00:14:13.72
you know, God is
showing us ahead of time,
00:14:13.75\00:14:16.28
these are the things
that are going to happen
00:14:16.32\00:14:18.79
He's showing us
this polarization
00:14:18.85\00:14:21.26
but He's
ultimately showing us again,
00:14:21.29\00:14:23.66
"This is who is
going to win out. "
00:14:23.69\00:14:25.99
So, as we look at the
Lamb, we have to remember that
00:14:26.03\00:14:29.66
"while it looks like a Lamb,
00:14:29.70\00:14:31.03
it's going to
speak like a dragon"
00:14:31.07\00:14:33.00
right, and so,
realizing... we talk about...
00:14:33.03\00:14:36.40
we were saying this a
little bit earlier that
00:14:36.44\00:14:40.14
as Christians, we
need to stand in a place
00:14:40.18\00:14:45.68
where we can reach
both sides of this turmoil
00:14:45.71\00:14:51.15
especially in this Country
and even around the world
00:14:51.19\00:14:53.36
but we have to be able to...
00:14:53.39\00:14:55.59
to stand with... um...
00:14:55.62\00:15:01.46
those who uphold
those six commandments
00:15:01.50\00:15:06.37
and agree with them and
say, "Hey, you know what?
00:15:06.40\00:15:08.80
as Christians, it's our duty
to stand with you on this. "
00:15:08.84\00:15:12.81
On the other hand, as
we were talking earlier,
00:15:12.84\00:15:15.91
we need to stand with those who
may not agree with Christianity
00:15:15.94\00:15:20.52
but have some principle
of right, where we're like,
00:15:20.55\00:15:23.05
"Yeah, you know what?
you're not supposed to hate,
00:15:23.08\00:15:25.49
even if these people don't
stand for what you stand for,
00:15:25.52\00:15:28.29
you can't hate on
these people" right,
00:15:28.32\00:15:30.66
"you can't have
that kind of attitude
00:15:30.69\00:15:32.96
of 'I'm better than
you... '" or whatever,
00:15:32.99\00:15:35.73
so, we have to be
able to stand in the place
00:15:35.76\00:15:38.47
where we can
minister to both sides
00:15:38.53\00:15:40.74
because a time is
coming where we are going to...
00:15:40.77\00:15:45.57
it's going to be a... the Bible
calls it a "time of trouble"
00:15:45.61\00:15:49.84
and God has called us to be
able to minister to everybody,
00:15:49.88\00:15:54.08
right, and so, we've
got to find that balance
00:15:54.12\00:15:57.35
of how do I
minister to the people that
00:15:57.39\00:16:00.36
really are seeing things
from two opposite experiences.
00:16:00.39\00:16:05.63
Yvonne: Yes, yes...
00:16:05.69\00:16:07.03
Jason: We need to look
at Jesus and how He did it
00:16:07.06\00:16:09.70
because He was surrounded
by people who hated on Him
00:16:09.73\00:16:12.33
and hated Him
00:16:12.40\00:16:13.74
and the way that He carried
Himself and conducted Himself,
00:16:13.77\00:16:17.31
with those people, I mean,
He's our example in all things,
00:16:17.34\00:16:20.68
so, we just need to
stay focused on Christ.
00:16:20.71\00:16:23.18
Ivor: Which is a
very good point because
00:16:23.21\00:16:25.61
this is kind of taking
us back in Revelation 13
00:16:25.65\00:16:30.92
but the reason that
Christ was ultimately crucified
00:16:30.95\00:16:36.02
was because the
Jews of His time...
00:16:36.06\00:16:41.23
they put a nation above God.
00:16:41.26\00:16:48.27
This super
nationalism that said,
00:16:48.30\00:16:56.14
"Hey, it is expedient
for us that one man perish...
00:16:56.18\00:16:58.71
that the whole... " what?
00:16:58.75\00:17:00.08
"nation doesn't
perish... " guess what?
00:17:00.12\00:17:02.02
That same principle is going
to be put to the people of God.
00:17:02.08\00:17:08.19
You know what?
"Man! These people...
00:17:08.22\00:17:11.23
they're not willing to go
along with... and you know what?
00:17:11.26\00:17:13.26
It's expedient for us
that this small group of people
00:17:13.29\00:17:16.26
who keep the commandments of God
00:17:16.30\00:17:18.37
and have the testimony...
00:17:18.40\00:17:20.37
it's expedient for
us that they perish
00:17:20.44\00:17:22.54
that the whole
nation perish not... "
00:17:22.57\00:17:24.27
because remember,
it's going to be...
00:17:24.31\00:17:25.97
"This is God's nation...
00:17:26.01\00:17:27.38
and we've got to do whatever
we can to protect God's nation,
00:17:27.41\00:17:31.51
if it means, getting
rid of a group of people
00:17:31.55\00:17:34.42
who refused to go
along with these laws,
00:17:34.45\00:17:37.25
that had now gone
beyond the six commandments,
00:17:37.29\00:17:40.19
but the first four... "
00:17:40.22\00:17:42.16
we see that very same principle
00:17:42.19\00:17:44.89
is going to play
itself out at the end of time.
00:17:44.93\00:17:46.76
James: You know it's
really interesting because
00:17:46.80\00:17:50.00
Romans 13 not only
lays out these principles
00:17:50.03\00:17:52.83
that are vital for
us in the end of time
00:17:52.87\00:17:55.57
but notice what Paul says
as he closes out these verses,
00:17:55.60\00:17:58.64
in Romans 13, we
read here in Romans 13:10,
00:17:58.67\00:18:02.64
and this is
what Ivor was saying,
00:18:02.68\00:18:04.48
he was basically saying,
00:18:04.51\00:18:05.85
"Love works no
ill to his neighbor:
00:18:05.88\00:18:07.52
for love is the
fulfilling of the law. "
00:18:07.55\00:18:09.08
So, the whole idea that
Jason was bringing out about...
00:18:09.12\00:18:12.35
"We need to follow
Christ... " which by-the-way is
00:18:12.39\00:18:15.22
the answer to Revelation
13... it's in Revelation 14,
00:18:15.26\00:18:18.66
the answer to Revelation 13
and how we relate to this crisis
00:18:18.69\00:18:22.16
is, "Follow the
Lamb wherever He goes"
00:18:22.20\00:18:24.37
that's Revelation 14,
00:18:24.40\00:18:25.90
Paul has the same point
here, he says in verse 11,
00:18:25.93\00:18:29.67
"And that, knowing the time,
00:18:29.70\00:18:31.51
that now it is high
time to awake out of sleep:
00:18:31.57\00:18:34.84
for now our salvation is
nearer than when we believed,
00:18:34.88\00:18:37.25
for the night is far
spent, the day is at hand:
00:18:37.31\00:18:40.58
let us
therefore... " verse 12...
00:18:40.62\00:18:42.72
"cast off the works of darkness,
00:18:42.75\00:18:44.79
and let us put on
the armour of light.
00:18:44.82\00:18:47.29
Let us walk
honestly, as in the day;
00:18:47.32\00:18:49.72
not in rioting and drunkenness,
00:18:49.79\00:18:51.19
not in
chambering and wantonness,
00:18:51.23\00:18:52.63
not in strife and envying.
00:18:52.66\00:18:54.00
But put on the
Lord Jesus Christ,
00:18:54.03\00:18:55.60
and make not
provision for the flesh,
00:18:55.63\00:18:57.27
to fulfil the lust thereof. "
00:18:57.33\00:18:58.77
And his point is,
sometimes we're poor Christians
00:18:58.80\00:19:04.77
and we
compromise... in our own lives
00:19:04.81\00:19:09.81
which leads us to compromise
00:19:09.84\00:19:11.31
in relation to the Government
and the powers that be
00:19:11.35\00:19:13.88
and we can't do that.
00:19:13.92\00:19:15.25
Yvonne: That's right.
00:19:15.28\00:19:16.62
James: Jesus is able
to hold to righteousness
00:19:16.65\00:19:18.85
while He loved people,
00:19:18.89\00:19:20.29
He could say to the
woman, "I don't condemn you... "
00:19:20.32\00:19:22.59
at the same time
"go and sin no more... "
00:19:22.62\00:19:23.96
and that's the balance,
00:19:23.99\00:19:25.79
that's the difficult balance
that God is calling us to
00:19:25.86\00:19:28.06
the problem in
Revelation chapter 13 is...
00:19:28.13\00:19:30.73
that these guys go over the line
00:19:30.77\00:19:33.60
and we know that because
00:19:33.64\00:19:35.07
as you read
Revelation chapter 13,
00:19:35.10\00:19:36.91
you see a word
that's picked up here,
00:19:36.94\00:19:38.71
over and over again,
00:19:38.77\00:19:40.48
I'm going to read
a couple of verses
00:19:40.51\00:19:41.84
and you tell me
what the word is,
00:19:41.88\00:19:43.21
verse 4, "And they
worshipped the dragon
00:19:43.24\00:19:46.51
which gave power unto the beast:
00:19:46.55\00:19:47.88
and they
worshipped the beast... "
00:19:47.92\00:19:49.25
okay, that's the
first time it's mentioned,
00:19:49.28\00:19:51.45
then it goes down
here and even in verse 3,
00:19:51.52\00:19:53.89
"all the world
wondered after the beast... "
00:19:53.92\00:19:56.26
and then you have
it again in verse 15,
00:19:56.29\00:20:02.26
"And he had power to give life
unto the image of the beast,
00:20:02.30\00:20:04.87
that the image of the
beast should both speak,
00:20:04.90\00:20:06.47
and cause as many
as would not worship
00:20:06.50\00:20:08.14
the image of the
beast should be killed. "
00:20:08.17\00:20:10.51
Over and over again,
throughout all of this,
00:20:10.54\00:20:12.84
verse 12, "And he
exerciseth all the power
00:20:12.87\00:20:15.14
of the first beast before him,
00:20:15.18\00:20:16.51
and causeth the earth
and them which dwell therein
00:20:16.54\00:20:17.88
to worship the first beast,
whose deadly wound was healed. "
00:20:17.91\00:20:19.98
Over and over
again, you see this word,
00:20:20.02\00:20:22.58
and what is the word?
00:20:22.62\00:20:23.95
Jason:
Worship... James: Worship.
00:20:23.99\00:20:25.52
Worship belongs to one
person and one person only
00:20:25.55\00:20:29.02
and who is that person?
00:20:29.06\00:20:30.53
Yvonne: God. James: God...
00:20:30.56\00:20:31.96
and so, these powers are
causing the world to worship
00:20:31.99\00:20:35.46
an earthly
kingdom... an earthly power
00:20:35.50\00:20:37.17
because the beast represents
earthly kingdoms or powers,
00:20:37.20\00:20:40.34
Daniel 7:17 and 23,
00:20:40.40\00:20:42.27
so, the worship
that is due only to God,
00:20:42.30\00:20:45.91
is being directed to
earthly powers and earthly kings
00:20:45.94\00:20:49.88
and earthly rulers... and
that's where we draw the line,
00:20:49.91\00:20:53.82
and that's what
Romans 13 is bringing out.
00:20:53.85\00:20:55.45
Yes, we need to be participating
politically in laws
00:20:55.48\00:20:59.69
that violate the
last six commandments
00:20:59.72\00:21:02.79
and anything that has to do with
loving your neighbor as yourself
00:21:02.82\00:21:04.59
but we should back away
from participating in laws
00:21:04.63\00:21:07.96
that have to do
with worshipping God...
00:21:08.00\00:21:09.86
with the worship of God
00:21:09.90\00:21:11.23
and if we pull out completely,
we lose our influence
00:21:11.27\00:21:17.81
with those people who follow
the principles of Romans 13...
00:21:17.84\00:21:21.68
follow the Bible principles,
00:21:21.71\00:21:23.11
so, in order for
us to be balanced,
00:21:23.14\00:21:25.38
we have to follow the principles
00:21:25.41\00:21:27.62
that are laid out
in the Word of God...
00:21:27.65\00:21:28.98
follow those principles
and then when we hold the line
00:21:29.02\00:21:31.75
and they say, "Well,
why are you doing that?"
00:21:31.79\00:21:33.12
Well, because,
the Bible prohibits us
00:21:33.15\00:21:34.86
from going any
further than this.
00:21:34.89\00:21:36.62
Jason: A lot of
this reminds me of Israel
00:21:36.66\00:21:38.73
when they were dying
to have a king, you know,
00:21:38.79\00:21:41.10
they were begging for a king,
00:21:41.13\00:21:42.66
and they wanted to get out
of the theocracy-type thing
00:21:42.70\00:21:46.43
and enter into a
monarchy and it was... it was...
00:21:46.47\00:21:51.47
it was like, "You
have God ruling and leading
00:21:51.51\00:21:56.44
but yet, you want to follow man
and then take on those customs,"
00:21:56.48\00:22:02.02
and then they begin...
00:22:02.05\00:22:04.09
they were constantly
backsliding and compromising
00:22:04.12\00:22:06.62
and so, it's like, "You
have the Creator of the universe
00:22:06.65\00:22:11.79
but yet, you're so
stuck on following man
00:22:11.83\00:22:17.47
and what
everybody else is doing. "
00:22:17.50\00:22:20.10
James: Yeah, and you
see that same principle here
00:22:20.14\00:22:23.34
in Revelation chapter 13.
00:22:23.37\00:22:24.71
So, so, our safety is
following the Word of God
00:22:24.74\00:22:29.31
and the way that
it's outlined here...
00:22:29.34\00:22:31.21
and we need to be careful
00:22:31.25\00:22:32.58
because it's easy for us to
become so sympathetic toward
00:22:32.61\00:22:35.92
and loving toward people
00:22:35.95\00:22:37.29
that we start
compromising with their sin.
00:22:37.32\00:22:39.55
Ivor: Right. Yvonne: Right.
00:22:39.59\00:22:40.92
James: At the same time,
it's easy for us to become
00:22:40.96\00:22:42.99
so filled with
enmity or hatred towards sin
00:22:43.02\00:22:46.73
that we start hating the sinner
00:22:46.76\00:22:49.03
and God calls us to
hold to the balance...
00:22:49.06\00:22:52.07
hold to the balance...
and this is where it is.
00:22:52.10\00:22:54.24
Ivor: Because what's
happening now in Society is...
00:22:54.27\00:22:56.34
like, the Left
is going so far left
00:22:56.37\00:23:01.08
that it is angering the
Right, you know what I'm saying
00:23:01.11\00:23:06.58
and so, you got
this... and you got this...
00:23:06.61\00:23:10.22
this pendulum,
right, that keeps swinging
00:23:10.25\00:23:13.79
and every time it goes
through, it just goes...
00:23:13.82\00:23:16.99
and at one point, I
mean, it goes so far left
00:23:17.03\00:23:19.79
that when it
swings back right...
00:23:19.86\00:23:21.20
James: It's going
to go too far that way.
00:23:21.23\00:23:22.60
Ivor: it's going to go...
00:23:22.63\00:23:24.30
and at some point,
it's going to go too far
00:23:24.33\00:23:26.84
and... I mean, we're living in
a time now where we're seeing,
00:23:26.87\00:23:31.04
"Whoa, that time
could be very quick... "
00:23:31.07\00:23:33.31
of course, no one
knows the day or the hour
00:23:33.34\00:23:35.98
but no one knows when
that time actually begins
00:23:36.01\00:23:38.58
but with the anger that
you see out in Society today,
00:23:38.61\00:23:42.62
it's very easy to
see how quickly...
00:23:42.65\00:23:44.85
how we can get to that time.
00:23:44.89\00:23:46.65
All: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:46.69\00:23:48.26
James: So, Revelation chapter
13 let's get back in there
00:23:48.29\00:23:51.03
because we have, still, to
identify the Mark of the Beast
00:23:51.06\00:23:53.76
and it's going to
take us a little bit
00:23:53.80\00:23:56.40
as we go through this
because, what we have here
00:23:56.46\00:23:58.93
is, we've identified
two earthly powers...
00:23:58.97\00:24:00.54
the Papacy and the United States
00:24:00.57\00:24:02.24
but it says here that
there's going to be a mark
00:24:02.27\00:24:05.57
that is related to these
powers, the Mark of the Beast,
00:24:05.61\00:24:08.61
the Mark of this earthly power
that is going to be enforced
00:24:08.64\00:24:11.58
so no man can buy or sell,
00:24:11.61\00:24:13.01
now, what we do know about
this... the Mark of the Beast
00:24:13.05\00:24:15.82
firstly, is that it
has to do with worship,
00:24:15.85\00:24:18.45
worshipping these beasts
or these earthly kingdoms
00:24:18.49\00:24:22.72
what's interesting is
when you compare Revelation 13
00:24:22.79\00:24:26.19
with Revelation 14,
00:24:26.23\00:24:27.56
you have a call in
Revelation 14 to worship also
00:24:27.60\00:24:30.57
so there's a key word
there that's in both chapters...
00:24:30.60\00:24:33.84
let's just read this
verse in Revelation 14,
00:24:33.87\00:24:37.61
and glean from it what
the context of worship is
00:24:37.64\00:24:40.78
in this verse, it's
Revelation 14 and verse 7,
00:24:40.81\00:24:43.91
and the context is,
00:24:43.95\00:24:46.11
another angel flying
in the midst of heaven
00:24:46.15\00:24:47.52
having the everlasting gospel
00:24:47.58\00:24:48.92
to preach to them
through all the earth
00:24:48.95\00:24:50.89
to every nation,
kindred, tongue and people,
00:24:50.92\00:24:52.39
Jason, verse 7 says what?
00:24:52.45\00:24:53.79
Jason: "Saying
with a loud voice,
00:24:53.82\00:24:55.49
Fear God, and give glory to him;
00:24:55.52\00:24:57.29
for the hour of
his judgment is come:
00:24:57.33\00:24:59.33
and worship him that made
heaven, and earth, and the sea,
00:24:59.36\00:25:02.50
and the fountains of waters. "
00:25:02.53\00:25:03.87
James: Whoa...
okay... worship "Him... " God
00:25:03.90\00:25:08.17
who made heaven
and earth and the seas
00:25:08.20\00:25:09.54
and the fountains of water...
00:25:09.57\00:25:10.91
this call is a call to
worship God... in fact,
00:25:10.94\00:25:12.54
Jason, if you read for
us this verse, verse 9...
00:25:12.57\00:25:14.24
notice what it says here,
00:25:14.28\00:25:15.61
"And the third
angel followed them,
00:25:15.64\00:25:17.81
saying with a loud voice,
00:25:17.85\00:25:19.18
If any man worship
the beast and his image,
00:25:19.21\00:25:21.52
and receive his mark in
his forehead, or in his hand.
00:25:21.55\00:25:25.65
The same shall drink of the
wine of the wrath of God... "
00:25:25.69\00:25:29.42
James: Okay,
let's stop right there.
00:25:29.46\00:25:31.66
So, you have a
call to worship God
00:25:31.69\00:25:33.63
and in that context
00:25:33.70\00:25:35.50
another warning
against worshipping the beast.
00:25:35.53\00:25:37.80
So, the issue is worship, and
there are two calls to worship,
00:25:37.83\00:25:41.90
one call is to
worship earthly powers
00:25:41.94\00:25:43.61
and another call
is to worship God
00:25:43.64\00:25:45.27
and God gives a warning against
worshipping earthly powers
00:25:45.31\00:25:48.74
and receiving
the Mark of the Beast
00:25:48.78\00:25:50.45
so the Mark of the
Beast is directly connected
00:25:50.51\00:25:52.71
to the worshipping
of these earthly powers
00:25:52.75\00:25:54.25
in contrast
with worshipping God,
00:25:54.28\00:25:55.72
and here's why... I'll
close this up... verse 12,
00:25:55.75\00:25:59.52
Yvonne, can you
read that for us?
00:25:59.55\00:26:01.49
Yvonne: "Here is the
patience of the saints:
00:26:01.52\00:26:03.53
here are those that
keep the commandments of God,
00:26:03.59\00:26:05.83
and the faith of Jesus.
00:26:05.86\00:26:07.20
James: Now, this
is really interesting
00:26:07.23\00:26:08.90
because in the
commandments of God,
00:26:08.93\00:26:10.67
we have the call to worship God
who created the heaven and earth
00:26:10.70\00:26:14.14
and the seas and
fountains of waters.
00:26:14.17\00:26:15.54
Yvonne: Yes.
00:26:15.57\00:26:16.91
James: I mean,
when you think about it,
00:26:16.94\00:26:18.27
there are only two days of
worship in the Christian world.
00:26:18.31\00:26:21.04
Yvonne: That's
right. James: Just two...
00:26:21.08\00:26:22.41
so, in the Bible you
have two calls to worship...
00:26:22.44\00:26:24.25
and in the Christian world,
you have two days of worship.
00:26:24.28\00:26:26.01
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:26:26.08\00:26:27.42
James: Have you
ever noticed that?
00:26:27.45\00:26:28.78
think about this because...
because the two days of worship
00:26:28.82\00:26:32.45
are contrary to each other,
00:26:32.49\00:26:35.06
it's either one
day or the other,
00:26:35.12\00:26:36.46
people who worship on this day,
don't worship on this day...
00:26:36.49\00:26:38.16
people who worship on this
day don't worship on this day.
00:26:38.19\00:26:40.00
Jason: And that's
the first and the last.
00:26:40.03\00:26:41.90
James: Yes! the
first and the last!
00:26:41.93\00:26:43.40
Yvonne: Yeah.
00:26:43.43\00:26:44.77
James: The first day
of the week is Sunday
00:26:44.80\00:26:46.13
and the last day of
the week is Saturday, okay,
00:26:46.17\00:26:48.67
so you've got these
people who worship on Saturday
00:26:48.70\00:26:51.51
and the reason why
they worship on Saturday
00:26:51.54\00:26:53.11
is because they find that
Saturday is the seventh day
00:26:53.14\00:26:57.75
that is outlined
in the Word of God.
00:26:57.78\00:26:59.31
Yvonne: Right.
00:26:59.35\00:27:00.68
James: It is the
Sabbath of the Bible
00:27:00.72\00:27:03.05
and so, this call to worship...
00:27:03.08\00:27:05.95
this distinction
between these two groups
00:27:05.99\00:27:07.52
becomes the centerpiece
00:27:07.56\00:27:09.12
of this "Mark of
the Beast" controversy
00:27:09.16\00:27:11.89
in Revelation
chapters 13 and 14.
00:27:11.93\00:27:13.46
Yvonne: And isn't it interesting
00:27:13.50\00:27:14.93
that the issue that
the enemy has is worship...
00:27:14.96\00:27:19.87
he wants worship...
00:27:19.90\00:27:21.67
so, it stands to
reason because he has...
00:27:21.70\00:27:25.07
for everything that God
has, he has a counterfeit
00:27:25.11\00:27:28.61
so, this is... we're
looking at the counterfeit
00:27:28.64\00:27:31.81
but it's interesting
that in Revelation 13,
00:27:31.85\00:27:36.79
there is going to
be a civil enforcement
00:27:36.82\00:27:41.69
so if you don't
worship the beast,
00:27:41.72\00:27:44.96
you're in trouble...
00:27:44.99\00:27:47.10
with the law...
00:27:47.16\00:27:49.63
James: We are just...
00:27:49.66\00:27:51.00
we are just laying
the foundation for this
00:27:51.03\00:27:52.57
and it's a good
foundation. Yvonne: Yeah.
00:27:52.60\00:27:54.14
James: We're going to come back
00:27:54.17\00:27:55.50
and we're going
to really unpack it,
00:27:55.54\00:27:56.87
we are going to unpack this.
00:27:56.91\00:27:58.24
Yvonne: This is
some rich stuff here...
00:27:58.27\00:27:59.61
it's rich... praise the Lord.
00:27:59.64\00:28:01.38