All right, we are in
Revelation chapter 11,
00:00:30.03\00:00:32.49
now we moved
through Revelation 8 and 9
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and it was
challenging... it was...
00:00:34.86\00:00:37.07
it was probably the most
challenging part of Revelation
00:00:37.10\00:00:39.23
that we've hit so far
and I think it will be
00:00:39.27\00:00:41.34
it will stay there
as the most challenging
00:00:41.37\00:00:43.41
and then we got a
breather... whew...
00:00:43.44\00:00:45.24
Revelation chapter
10... kind of... yes...
00:00:45.27\00:00:47.84
you know the
bitter disappointment...
00:00:47.88\00:00:49.24
the little book...
Daniel... connection...
00:00:49.28\00:00:51.65
it was super fantastic,
mystery of iniquity...
00:00:51.68\00:00:54.25
mystery of God...
the two opposing elements
00:00:54.28\00:00:56.79
one... filling the world with
selfless, other-centered love,
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the other... all about
self, exaltation and selfishness
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and the two are contending
00:01:04.23\00:01:05.89
for the hearts and
loyalty of human beings
00:01:05.93\00:01:08.73
and now we're
moving into Revelation 11,
00:01:08.76\00:01:11.27
we kind of touched and
connected Revelation 11:1 and 2,
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which I kind of just...
I just kind of cross out
00:01:14.74\00:01:17.41
the chapter division there
00:01:17.44\00:01:18.77
because I think
Revelation 11:1 and 2
00:01:18.81\00:01:20.31
connect directly
00:01:20.34\00:01:21.68
with Revelation 10
and the Millerite Movement
00:01:21.71\00:01:23.48
you got to prophesy
again, "What about?"
00:01:23.51\00:01:25.55
"Measure the temple, the altar
and them that worship therein"
00:01:25.58\00:01:28.22
it's about judgment
and God's involved in it,
00:01:28.28\00:01:30.19
God's in the center of it,
00:01:30.22\00:01:31.55
we need to see
God... His character
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and now we're
moving into Revelation 11
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the last part of verse 2
and then the rest of the chapter
00:01:36.02\00:01:39.29
and I think we're back into
00:01:39.33\00:01:40.90
Revelation 8 and
9 type of territory,
00:01:40.93\00:01:43.77
I think we're back
into some of the more
00:01:43.80\00:01:46.60
difficult challenging verses,
00:01:46.63\00:01:47.97
so we're going to have to
slow down just a little bit
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and boom! hit
some of these symbols,
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identify them...
Where are we in history?
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What's taking place here?
00:01:55.21\00:01:56.71
Give a kind of an overview,
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and then going to the
details of these symbols
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and see how
they apply Biblically
00:02:01.75\00:02:03.18
and then
confirm that by history,
00:02:03.22\00:02:04.55
that's where our
basic strategy has been
00:02:04.59\00:02:07.46
in studying this book which
I think has been really good,
00:02:07.49\00:02:10.46
it's been really good, we
want a Biblical foundation
00:02:10.49\00:02:12.76
and a confirmation from history,
not the other way around,
00:02:12.79\00:02:15.26
we don't want to use
history to interpret the Bible,
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we want Bible prophecy
to be interpreted by itself,
00:02:17.40\00:02:19.37
and then
history to confirm that.
00:02:19.43\00:02:20.77
Yvonne: Which is good.
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James: Yvonne, take us
through in prayer, can you?
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Yvonne: Yes, sure,
"Father God, thank you so much
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for bringing us together
once more to study your Word
00:02:26.41\00:02:30.05
and to glean its precious truths
and so we thank you that...
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that you are just revealed
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and your character is
revealed in your Word, Lord,
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and we love you and we thank you
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and we ask you that your
Spirit be with us right now
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we pray in Jesus'
name, amen. " All: "Amen... "
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James: Okay, so
what do we have here,
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so far, we've gone
through the Millerite Movement
00:02:47.83\00:02:52.20
in Revelation
chapter 10 and we've...
00:02:52.23\00:02:54.90
they've come out of that
through that disappointment
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with this... with this...
this call to prophesy again
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before many nations,
peoples and tongues and kings,
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so... so they
have been commanded,
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you've got to share
what you've just learned
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and what they've just learned
is this incredible picture
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of the heavenly sanctuary,
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and when you go into
the heavenly sanctuary,
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you see a work
that's being done there
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in the Holy and
the Most Holy Places
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and what they've seen is that...
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that Jesus Christ has
transitioned from the Holy Place
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into the Most Holy Place
and so, then they're given this
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read verse...
chapter 11 verse 1,
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"And there was given
me a reed like unto a rod:
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and the angel stood, saying,
Rise, and measure the temple
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and the altar, and
them that worship therein. "
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And so, we looked at
that in our last program,
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we identified the temple
as the place where God dwells,
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the place where God
meets with His people,
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the dwelling place of
God so, so God Himself
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is being placed in a
position of being judged
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because that's what the word
00:03:54.76\00:03:56.10
"measure" means in the
Greek, it means, "to judge... "
00:03:56.13\00:03:57.60
and so, we know
that this is true
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because all of Society
today and for hundreds of years
00:04:00.34\00:04:04.17
have been... been turned
toward questioning God...
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His existence...
"Is there really a God?"
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And the
viability of His character,
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"Is He really a God of love?"
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And, if He is a God of
love, how can it be that...
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that He would be allowing so
much evil and pain and suffering
00:04:19.42\00:04:22.66
to be taking place
in the world today?"
00:04:22.69\00:04:24.03
Jason: And Satan has been trying
to misrepresent God's character
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since the
beginning... like... forever...
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since... in heaven when
he deceived the one-third.
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James: That's how he
started the whole process
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trying to
deceive and misrepresent
00:04:35.20\00:04:37.57
the character of
God. Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:04:37.61\00:04:39.87
James: So we have this
picture needing clarification
00:04:39.91\00:04:43.71
right, we see
Revelation chapter 11 then,
00:04:43.75\00:04:47.08
encouraging us... "go
ahead and measure God"
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is God afraid of being measured?
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Is he afraid of being judged?
00:04:52.09\00:04:53.79
No, the thing
that I think that is
00:04:53.82\00:04:56.02
what God is concerned with is
not that we would question Him
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but that we would
question Him and then walk away
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without measuring the altar,
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see, the altar is
also to be measured
00:05:03.83\00:05:06.30
and in Hebrews chapter 13...
let's just read these verses
00:05:06.33\00:05:09.14
because I think
they'll really help us clarify
00:05:09.17\00:05:11.37
the symbolism of
the altar, Hebrews 13
00:05:11.41\00:05:14.48
and Jason would you
read beginning with verse 10,
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let's read 10 through
13, Hebrews 13:10 through 13
00:05:19.81\00:05:25.02
and there are some
really good points here
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outside of
identifying the symbolism,
00:05:29.76\00:05:31.63
where are you at,
Hebrews 13:10 through 13?
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Jason: Do you have it
Mom? Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:05:34.53\00:05:37.20
Jason: You go ahead.
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Yvonne: Okay, "We have an altar,
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whereof they have no right to
eat which serve the tabernacle.
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For the bodies of those beasts,
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whose blood is
brought into the sanctuary
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by the high priest for sin,
are burned without the camp.
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Wherefore Jesus also,
that he might sanctify the
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people with his own blood,
suffered without the gate. "
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James: All right,
let's stop right there.
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Paul, here, in
verse 10 is saying,
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"We have an altar... "
well, what altar is that?
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"Well, it's not
the one that they're...
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that they're serving in that
literal sanctuary in the earth,
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those who are serving that
literal sanctuary... tabernacle
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have no right to
come to our altar. "
00:06:14.47\00:06:15.80
"Well, what's your
altar?" "Well, that sanctuary...
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they brought the
bodies of the beasts
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and their blood was spilled in
that literal sanctuary service
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and then their bodies
were burned without the camp...
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the beasts were
burned without the camp
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but our altar, verse
12, 'Wherefore Jesus also,
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that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood,
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suffered without the gate'
that's outside Jerusalem...
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that's our altar...
our altar is the cross...
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our altar is where
Jesus suffered... "
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Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:06:39.73\00:06:41.06
James: Jesus was the lamb,
He was the ultimate fulfillment
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of the sacrifices
of all those animals
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that were brought
into the Sanctuary,
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so we have an
altar... those people...
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"If you keep serving
that literal sanctuary,
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you have no right
to come to our altar
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our altar is the
fulfillment of all of that,
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you've got... you've got
to actually let that go...
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in order to come
to our altar... "
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so the altar...
according to Paul
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in Hebrews 13
represents the cross,
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it represents Christ, so when...
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when Revelation 11
says, "Measure the altar... "
00:07:07.06\00:07:11.83
it's telling us... in
connection with God's character,
00:07:11.86\00:07:14.83
measure the sacrifice
that He's given for you
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you've got a
question about His character?
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You're not understanding
why there's sin and suffering?
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God can't answer all
those questions individually
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because there are reasons
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why sin and
suffering has been allowed
00:07:28.08\00:07:30.25
that are beyond our
pale of understanding,
00:07:30.28\00:07:31.98
we just can't grasp it all
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but what God has done is
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He's stepped into
our suffering with us,
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He, Himself, has stepped in
in the person of Jesus Christ
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and He has borne the
weight and the guilt...
00:07:39.89\00:07:42.12
the measure of pain that every
and all human beings have borne
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and He's done
that through the cross
00:07:46.93\00:07:48.30
so when it says
there, "measure the temple"
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God's character and the altar...
00:07:50.87\00:07:52.37
the revelation of that character
through the Son, Jesus Christ
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and then it says, "and
them that worship therein"
00:07:55.14\00:07:58.77
So, the
worshippers... in other words...
00:07:58.81\00:08:02.94
there is a stake in
the character of God
00:08:02.98\00:08:06.92
and in the revelation of
that character, that we play,
00:08:06.95\00:08:11.79
are we representing God?
00:08:11.82\00:08:13.15
Now, of course,
there's a part of this
00:08:13.19\00:08:14.82
that's very clear that
we're going to be measured,
00:08:14.86\00:08:16.36
that God's people
are going to be measured,
00:08:16.39\00:08:17.86
that there's a judgment
that takes place with us
00:08:17.89\00:08:19.66
but that
judgment... many times...
00:08:19.69\00:08:21.43
is not so much God to us
as it is... us to the world...
00:08:21.46\00:08:27.37
how many people
have rejected God
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because of the witness
of those who worship Him.
00:08:30.51\00:08:33.01
How many people
have turned away from God
00:08:33.04\00:08:35.64
because "the church" isn't
reflecting what God is like.
00:08:35.68\00:08:38.95
Gandhi once said,
00:08:38.98\00:08:40.35
"A lot more of us
Hindus would follow your Jesus,
00:08:40.38\00:08:43.39
if a lot more of your
Christians were like Him. "
00:08:43.45\00:08:46.39
I'm just paraphrasing
that, so, you have a church now,
00:08:46.42\00:08:50.89
this is the
setting... this is the context,
00:08:50.93\00:08:52.79
you have a church now,
00:08:52.83\00:08:54.46
that's supposed to give
a witness for the truth...
00:08:54.53\00:08:57.13
a witness of what God is
like, it's not just His temple,
00:08:57.17\00:09:02.00
it's not just the
sacrifice of Jesus
00:09:02.04\00:09:03.71
but now it's the church
and it's in that setting
00:09:03.74\00:09:06.07
that we enter
into the next verses
00:09:06.11\00:09:08.38
because what God
is setting up here is
00:09:08.41\00:09:10.58
this time of darkness when
there are only two witnesses,
00:09:10.61\00:09:13.68
when there's a lot of
persecution against God's people
00:09:13.72\00:09:16.48
and when, in a sense,
their witness shines brightly.
00:09:16.52\00:09:19.59
Yvonne: So, when it's saying,
"to measure the temple...
00:09:19.62\00:09:22.66
measure the altar... and
measure them that worship"
00:09:22.69\00:09:26.26
so, "them that
worship" are the worshippers...
00:09:26.29\00:09:28.06
are we
representing God properly?
00:09:28.10\00:09:29.43
James: Yes...
00:09:29.46\00:09:30.80
Yvonne: The altar is
the cross? James: Yes.
00:09:30.83\00:09:32.20
Yvonne: And we're
to evaluate the...
00:09:32.23\00:09:35.40
James: Look at God's
love through the cross,
00:09:35.47\00:09:38.17
look at His love,
Paul says it this way,
00:09:38.21\00:09:40.18
in fact, here's a
really good verse,
00:09:40.21\00:09:42.11
I just thought of
this, let's look at this one,
00:09:42.14\00:09:44.28
Jason go to... go to Ephesians
00:09:44.31\00:09:48.28
I think it's in
Ephesians, Ephesians chapter 2,
00:09:48.32\00:09:51.59
I'm pretty sure that
it's Ephesians chapter 2
00:09:51.62\00:09:54.82
Ephesians 2 and let's
start... if I can find it here,
00:09:54.86\00:10:01.36
turning pages...
00:10:01.40\00:10:06.23
no, it's Ephesians 3...
00:10:06.27\00:10:08.24
Jason: And what verse?
00:10:08.27\00:10:10.14
James: Ephesians 3
and start reading here,
00:10:10.21\00:10:12.77
verses... in verse 14...
and read all the way to 19...
00:10:12.81\00:10:17.18
Jason: Okay, "For
this cause I bow my knees
00:10:17.21\00:10:20.52
unto the Father of
our Lord Jesus Christ.
00:10:20.55\00:10:23.79
Of whom the whole family
in heaven and earth is named,
00:10:23.82\00:10:26.52
That he would grant you,
00:10:26.55\00:10:28.06
according to the
riches of his glory,
00:10:28.09\00:10:29.72
to be strengthened with might
by his Spirit in the inner man;
00:10:29.76\00:10:33.29
That Christ may dwell
in your hearts by faith;
00:10:33.33\00:10:36.13
that ye, being
rooted and grounded in love,
00:10:36.16\00:10:39.40
May be able to
comprehend with all saints
00:10:39.43\00:10:42.60
what is the breadth, and
length, and depth, and height;
00:10:42.64\00:10:46.17
And to know the love of
Christ, which passeth knowledge,
00:10:46.21\00:10:49.71
that you might be filled
with all the fulness of God. "
00:10:49.74\00:10:52.71
James: Did you get
that? Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:10:52.75\00:10:54.08
James: Are there measurements,
00:10:54.12\00:10:55.45
are there
"measurement" words in there?
00:10:55.48\00:10:56.82
Yvonne: Yes...
00:10:56.85\00:10:58.19
James: And those measurement
words are relating to who?
00:10:58.22\00:10:59.75
Yvonne: The love of Christ.
James: Yeah, the love of Christ.
00:10:59.82\00:11:02.56
"Measure the altar"
measure the love of Christ
00:11:02.59\00:11:05.33
because in the love
of Christ, we have God,
00:11:05.36\00:11:07.96
so measure the
length and the breadth
00:11:08.00\00:11:09.73
and the height and the depth,
00:11:09.76\00:11:11.10
when I think of the
length of God's love,
00:11:11.13\00:11:12.87
I think of how longsuffering...
God is long suffering towards us
00:11:12.90\00:11:16.04
not wanting that
any should perish
00:11:16.10\00:11:17.54
but that all
should come to repentance.
00:11:17.57\00:11:19.54
When I think of the
breadth of God's love,
00:11:19.57\00:11:21.98
I think of how He
loved the whole world
00:11:22.01\00:11:23.75
that He gave His only begotten
Son... He takes everyone in.
00:11:23.81\00:11:25.91
When I think of the height
of God's love, I think of...
00:11:25.95\00:11:28.02
"this is God...
Jesus Christ is God...
00:11:28.05\00:11:30.19
God Himself has come
down, He is the exalted creator,
00:11:30.22\00:11:32.45
He has come down... " and
when I think of the depth,
00:11:32.49\00:11:34.72
how far down He came...
00:11:34.76\00:11:36.09
He came down... all the
way down not just to be a man
00:11:36.12\00:11:39.56
but to be a servant
and not only be a servant
00:11:39.59\00:11:42.93
but to die the
death and not only death
00:11:42.96\00:11:44.37
but the death at the cross.
00:11:44.40\00:11:45.73
Yvonne: He's cast our
sins into the depths...
00:11:45.77\00:11:47.80
James: depths of the sea
00:11:47.84\00:11:49.17
and He did that,
not by just saying,
00:11:49.20\00:11:51.31
"Oh, I can do that
because I'm God... " poof...
00:11:51.34\00:11:52.67
no, He had to do that...
00:11:52.71\00:11:54.04
in a way that
allowed Him to maintain
00:11:54.08\00:11:57.15
His righteousness...
standing for the entire universe
00:11:57.18\00:11:59.28
that He is just
as well as merciful.
00:11:59.31\00:12:00.98
Jason: Which also speaks to why
00:12:01.02\00:12:03.35
there shouldn't
be any compromise,
00:12:03.39\00:12:05.85
like, no
compromise is acceptable
00:12:05.89\00:12:08.32
in the form of... let's
say, religion or principles
00:12:08.36\00:12:12.83
because if... if you
are able to compromise,
00:12:12.86\00:12:15.96
then Christ wouldn't
have needed to come down
00:12:16.03\00:12:19.10
and die for our sins.
00:12:19.13\00:12:21.00
James: If God can't
compromise, then, how can we?
00:12:21.04\00:12:24.04
And you're
talking about God's law,
00:12:24.07\00:12:26.64
you're talking about the
principles of His Government,
00:12:26.68\00:12:28.34
the principles of His
Government stand fast,
00:12:28.38\00:12:30.95
they cannot be moved or changed,
00:12:30.98\00:12:32.48
but at the same time, His
mercy... the Mercy Seat...
00:12:32.51\00:12:35.75
the Mercy Seat and
that's what we're going back to,
00:12:35.78\00:12:38.95
is to measure the temple,
00:12:38.99\00:12:40.49
the Mercy Seat
stands above the Law,
00:12:40.52\00:12:42.89
so you've got the Law and the
Mercy Seat... they're together,
00:12:42.92\00:12:45.76
they're not in
conflict with each other.
00:12:45.79\00:12:47.40
Yvonne: Hmmm... so the
third one is the temple...
00:12:47.43\00:12:51.10
are we talking about the
body as the temple of God or...?
00:12:51.13\00:12:54.74
James: No, we're talking
about the dwelling place of God.
00:12:54.77\00:12:58.31
Yvonne: The dwelling place.
00:12:58.34\00:12:59.67
James: Yes...
measure the temple of God...
00:12:59.71\00:13:02.21
so, that's the very
place where God dwells...
00:13:02.24\00:13:04.88
it's... in the Old Testament...
00:13:04.91\00:13:06.88
I'll just read a
couple of verses on this,
00:13:06.92\00:13:08.28
I have them here in my notes,
in, of course, Revelation 11:19,
00:13:08.32\00:13:14.09
"The temple of God
was opened in heaven,
00:13:14.16\00:13:15.49
and I saw in his temple
the ark of his testament... "
00:13:15.52\00:13:18.09
so, it has to do with His
ark... where the Law is but...
00:13:18.13\00:13:20.96
here's the verse
that I want us to look at,
00:13:21.03\00:13:25.30
Exodus 25:21 and 22,
Exodus 25:21 and 22...
00:13:25.33\00:13:29.57
Yvonne: "And thou shalt put the
mercy seat above upon the ark;
00:13:29.60\00:13:38.61
and in the ark thou
shalt put the testimony
00:13:38.65\00:13:40.82
that I shall give thee.
00:13:40.85\00:13:42.38
And there I will meet with thee,
and I will commune with thee
00:13:42.42\00:13:45.75
from above the mercy seat,
from between the two Cherubims
00:13:45.82\00:13:49.12
which are upon the
ark of the testimony,
00:13:49.16\00:13:50.83
of all things which I
will give thee in commandment
00:13:50.86\00:13:54.20
unto the children of Israel. "
00:13:54.23\00:13:55.56
James: So, this was the place
where God met with His people,
00:13:55.60\00:13:59.97
where He
communicated with His people,
00:14:00.00\00:14:01.64
where the Law of God was,
everything that God has given us
00:14:01.67\00:14:04.74
His laws, His statutes, and
the communication He gives to us
00:14:04.77\00:14:07.81
and the meeting with
God, everything about God
00:14:07.84\00:14:10.48
relationship with God,
communicating with God,
00:14:10.51\00:14:12.51
the things that He
has communicated to us,
00:14:12.55\00:14:14.52
are measured... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:14:14.55\00:14:16.25
James: So, what we
see in the world is,
00:14:16.28\00:14:17.89
people are just
walking away from God
00:14:17.92\00:14:19.49
they're... and God
doesn't mind us measuring Him
00:14:19.52\00:14:22.59
or even
judging... His Word, His Law,
00:14:22.62\00:14:25.29
the principles
of His Government,
00:14:25.33\00:14:27.90
but He also wants us to
measure His love... the altar,
00:14:27.93\00:14:31.23
and He also wants to be
measured through His people,
00:14:31.27\00:14:34.50
His witness, if you will,
00:14:34.54\00:14:35.87
so there's a witness
that's to be considered,
00:14:35.90\00:14:38.67
there's the cross
that's to be considered,
00:14:38.71\00:14:41.44
in the light of that...
we're to see and meet with God
00:14:41.48\00:14:43.95
and see Him as He really is,
00:14:43.98\00:14:45.31
He has been
misrepresented, so the...
00:14:45.35\00:14:47.75
God is not
concerned with being measured,
00:14:47.78\00:14:50.09
He's concerned with
being measured correctly,
00:14:50.12\00:14:52.35
He's concerned that His words,
00:14:52.39\00:14:54.69
His testimony...
that the place that He...
00:14:54.72\00:14:57.13
because see what happened was
00:14:57.19\00:14:58.53
in the Old Testament,
in the context of this,
00:14:58.56\00:14:59.89
Moses met with God
face to face, in a sense,
00:14:59.93\00:15:03.57
his face was glowing with
the light of God's goodness,
00:15:03.60\00:15:07.60
and he saw God as
no one else saw Him
00:15:07.64\00:15:10.17
and the people
refused to do that.
00:15:10.21\00:15:12.71
God wanted to meet with them,
00:15:12.74\00:15:14.84
and they said,
"No, no, no, Moses,
00:15:14.88\00:15:16.41
you meet with God and you let
us know what He has to say. "
00:15:16.44\00:15:18.51
Yvonne: Right...
00:15:18.55\00:15:19.91
James; And a lot of
people today that's what they do
00:15:19.95\00:15:21.38
so they say, "Oh,
the Pastor will tell us,
00:15:21.42\00:15:23.45
the Pastor will
tell us what to believe,
00:15:23.49\00:15:25.39
the Pastor will
tell us what God said. "
00:15:25.42\00:15:27.29
No, the Pastor is not
going to tell you what God says,
00:15:27.32\00:15:28.79
the Pastor is
going to communicate
00:15:28.82\00:15:30.99
something new from God
that is along the lines of,
00:15:31.06\00:15:33.60
"You need to
come and meet with me,
00:15:33.63\00:15:35.06
you need to have
this connection with me. "
00:15:35.10\00:15:37.50
It can't just be the people
00:15:37.57\00:15:39.03
getting this
stuff from the Pastor,
00:15:39.07\00:15:41.50
it has to be the people
being directed by the Pastor
00:15:41.54\00:15:44.47
to connect with God.
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:15:44.51\00:15:46.17
James: And so, in the
world today, we have this need
00:15:46.21\00:15:48.44
to measure God
personally and individually
00:15:48.48\00:15:50.55
and to see what
He's really like,
00:15:50.58\00:15:51.91
to experience Him for ourselves
00:15:51.95\00:15:53.28
and, of course, that need...
that witness is going to come
00:15:53.31\00:15:56.58
in direct connection with Him,
00:15:56.62\00:15:57.95
it's going to come through
a revelation of the cross,
00:15:57.99\00:15:59.35
it's going to
come through His people
00:15:59.39\00:16:01.19
and as that
picture is given to us,
00:16:01.22\00:16:02.96
then we move into these
verses that describe a time
00:16:02.99\00:16:07.16
when God was misrepresented
00:16:07.20\00:16:09.03
and the only way that you
could really understand Him
00:16:09.06\00:16:11.47
or get to know Him was
through these two witnesses.
00:16:11.50\00:16:13.77
These two
witnesses were the only ones
00:16:13.80\00:16:15.84
that had been faithful to the
truth about who God really was
00:16:15.87\00:16:19.37
and that's what
we want to identify,
00:16:19.41\00:16:20.74
who are these two witnesses?
00:16:20.78\00:16:22.11
What's going on
in this dark time?
00:16:22.14\00:16:23.65
And how is it
that God's character
00:16:23.68\00:16:25.35
is going to be
revealed as it really is
00:16:25.38\00:16:27.02
yeah... through
these next verses.
00:16:27.05\00:16:29.28
Ivor, what have
you got over there?
00:16:29.32\00:16:31.02
You've been
awfully quiet for us.
00:16:31.05\00:16:32.69
Ivor: I've been listening,
00:16:32.72\00:16:34.06
James: I know, I know, I can
see that you've been listening.
00:16:34.09\00:16:37.99
Ivor: I think we should go
into verse... verse 2 and...
00:16:38.03\00:16:42.23
James: Okay, let's do that then,
00:16:42.26\00:16:44.17
you want to lead us into
verse 2 of Revelation 11?
00:16:44.20\00:16:46.07
Ivor: Yeah, so, "But
the court which is without
00:16:46.10\00:16:47.57
the temple leave
out, and measure it not;
00:16:47.60\00:16:51.41
for it is given
unto the Gentiles:
00:16:51.44\00:16:53.11
and the holy city
shall they tread under foot
00:16:53.14\00:16:55.54
forty and two months. "
00:16:55.58\00:16:57.48
So, do you see the time
period here of 42 months
00:16:57.51\00:17:03.49
again bringing us
back to the Dark Ages,
00:17:03.52\00:17:06.22
and this is going to
be important to understand
00:17:06.25\00:17:08.96
as we actually get
into the two witnesses
00:17:08.99\00:17:10.73
because timing is everything
in the book of Revelation.
00:17:10.79\00:17:14.56
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:17:14.60\00:17:15.93
Ivor: Right,
knowing where you are
00:17:15.96\00:17:17.30
in what time period... is
going to help you to understand
00:17:17.33\00:17:19.67
what's being spoken
about... and actually,
00:17:19.70\00:17:21.44
when we get to
the two witnesses,
00:17:21.47\00:17:24.51
you're going to see
that many people misinterpret
00:17:24.54\00:17:27.21
who these two witnesses
are, because their timing is off
00:17:27.24\00:17:29.74
and when your timing is off,
00:17:29.78\00:17:31.51
you're not going to see
things in the book of Revelation
00:17:31.55\00:17:36.25
as this should be seen so
this verse points us out...
00:17:36.28\00:17:40.82
points us out to
the... to the Dark Ages,
00:17:40.86\00:17:42.86
the Gentiles here
are doing something...
00:17:42.89\00:17:45.26
they are treading
down the Holy City,
00:17:45.29\00:17:47.60
so, we can go back to
the book of Daniel chapter 7
00:17:47.63\00:17:53.07
and Daniel chapter 8
and just what we've seen
00:17:53.10\00:17:58.34
in the 7
churches... the 7 seals...
00:17:58.37\00:18:01.24
particularly
numbers three... four...
00:18:01.28\00:18:04.05
three and four...
four... very specifically,
00:18:04.08\00:18:06.28
that this treading down is
happening by the Papal System
00:18:06.31\00:18:10.25
against the people of
God during the Dark Ages,
00:18:10.29\00:18:14.12
right, they're being persecuted
00:18:14.16\00:18:15.82
remember we talked
about the mystery of iniquity,
00:18:15.86\00:18:19.33
how the mystery of
iniquity basically was changing
00:18:19.36\00:18:22.53
the character of God
in the eyes of the people
00:18:22.56\00:18:25.67
so as you combine
what's happening here
00:18:25.73\00:18:28.67
with the verse that
we just read before it,
00:18:28.70\00:18:31.57
we're looking at a reversal,
00:18:31.64\00:18:33.01
kind of like... what we talked
about in our last program,
00:18:33.04\00:18:35.44
this is a reversal
of the character of God
00:18:35.48\00:18:38.75
that has been...
that was being presented
00:18:38.78\00:18:41.78
right, so, measure
the temple but leave...
00:18:41.82\00:18:45.45
don't measure
the... the... the court...
00:18:45.49\00:18:49.06
that's given to the Gentiles,
00:18:49.12\00:18:50.46
they're going to do
this thing for... this long
00:18:50.49\00:18:53.33
but after they complete it,
there's going to be a judgment
00:18:53.36\00:18:57.47
and my character is
going to be revealed,
00:18:57.50\00:19:01.30
so now, as we get into verse 3,
00:19:01.34\00:19:05.27
I don't know, James, if
there's anything you want
00:19:05.31\00:19:07.08
to add to verse 2...
but as we get into verse 3,
00:19:07.11\00:19:08.78
it's going to tell us how the
church... despite the darkness
00:19:08.84\00:19:15.62
was able to survive
during the Dark Ages.
00:19:15.65\00:19:19.85
James: Well, there's one other
thought in verse 2 and that is
00:19:19.89\00:19:21.96
the controversy
over the Holy City
00:19:22.02\00:19:23.79
and it is difficult... so I want
to give us a Bible verse on this
00:19:23.83\00:19:27.66
because I think it's important,
it's in Hebrews chapter 12
00:19:27.70\00:19:30.07
and this Bible verse is
basically defining for us
00:19:30.10\00:19:34.14
what the Holy City is,
00:19:34.17\00:19:35.50
Hebrews chapter 12
and verses 22 and 23,
00:19:35.54\00:19:41.84
let's just read those verses,
00:19:41.88\00:19:43.95
Yvonne, if you
can get those for us
00:19:43.98\00:19:46.48
and then we'll apply
that to the symbolism here
00:19:46.51\00:19:50.15
because I believe this is
symbolic in its mentioning
00:19:50.19\00:19:53.79
of the Holy City,
this... this Holy City
00:19:53.82\00:19:55.76
is either the literal
Holy City of Jerusalem
00:19:55.79\00:19:58.49
which actually did not
survive the 70 A.D. destruction
00:19:58.53\00:20:04.40
and therefore
wasn't in existence
00:20:04.43\00:20:07.47
during this 42-month period,
00:20:07.50\00:20:09.20
now we've looked at the 42-month
period as a prophetic period
00:20:09.24\00:20:12.47
so the 42 months...
prophetically speaking
00:20:12.51\00:20:15.21
would be this same as the
1,260 days in the next verse
00:20:15.24\00:20:18.11
or 1,260 years because you got
a day-for-a-year principle there
00:20:18.18\00:20:22.22
so we're looking at this period
00:20:22.25\00:20:23.79
as representing the Dark Ages
00:20:23.82\00:20:26.52
and we're going to get
into that in more detail
00:20:26.55\00:20:29.19
we're going to affirm that
in more detail when we get into
00:20:29.22\00:20:31.73
Revelation chapter
12 and Revelation 13,
00:20:31.79\00:20:33.56
we're going to put all
these time periods into one
00:20:33.60\00:20:36.63
because they are one,
there is no Holy City to destroy
00:20:36.67\00:20:40.37
at least not in
relation to the temple
00:20:40.40\00:20:42.17
during most of these Dark Ages
in fact it was during this time
00:20:42.20\00:20:46.11
that the Muslims actually built
a mosque on the temple site
00:20:46.14\00:20:50.01
and so, what we have here
is... you got to have a...
00:20:50.05\00:20:52.38
if it's not literal,
it's got to be symbolic
00:20:52.41\00:20:54.82
so if it's symbolic...
00:20:54.85\00:20:56.32
then there's got to be a
Bible verse that indicates
00:20:56.35\00:20:58.32
that the Holy City
represents something else.
00:20:58.35\00:21:00.32
Yvonne: When
John wrote Revelation,
00:21:00.36\00:21:02.69
was the Holy City intact then?
00:21:02.72\00:21:04.86
James: No, it was
gone... it was gone...
00:21:04.89\00:21:07.20
so, he wrote
Revelation at about A.D. 90
00:21:07.23\00:21:10.20
and Jerusalem had
been taken out in 70 A.D.
00:21:10.23\00:21:13.10
And Jesus said, "not one
stone will be left upon another"
00:21:13.13\00:21:16.14
in Matthew 24...
Mark 13... Luke 21
00:21:16.17\00:21:19.41
but in the prophecy of Daniel,
00:21:19.44\00:21:21.04
it says there in Daniel
chapter 9, verses 25, 26, 27...
00:21:21.08\00:21:26.31
verse 27 says that the
Holy City would lay desolate
00:21:26.35\00:21:30.65
till the very consummation...
00:21:30.69\00:21:32.02
till the end of time...
it would lay desolate...
00:21:32.05\00:21:33.39
and so, not talking
about Jerusalem itself
00:21:33.42\00:21:36.16
but that temple site...
desolate until the end of time
00:21:36.19\00:21:39.29
and that's why we have, I
think, a mosque on it right now
00:21:39.33\00:21:42.40
because that prophecy
is going to stand sure
00:21:42.43\00:21:44.47
and we're going to get
into more detail on that
00:21:44.50\00:21:46.20
when we study
the book of Daniel.
00:21:46.23\00:21:47.57
Yvonne: Yeah, yeah.
00:21:47.60\00:21:48.94
James: But let's just
read our Bible verses and see
00:21:48.97\00:21:50.31
if there is a spiritual
understanding of this Holy City.
00:21:50.34\00:21:54.08
Yvonne: Okay, Hebrews
12... and which verse?
00:21:54.11\00:21:56.01
James: 22 and 23...
00:21:56.04\00:21:57.38
Yvonne: "But ye are
come unto mount Sion,
00:21:57.41\00:21:59.58
and unto the city
of the living God,
00:21:59.61\00:22:01.08
the heavenly Jerusalem,
00:22:01.12\00:22:02.98
and to an
innumerable company of angels,
00:22:03.02\00:22:05.32
To the general assembly
and church of the firstborn,
00:22:05.35\00:22:08.46
which are written in heaven,
00:22:08.49\00:22:10.29
and to God the Judge of all,
00:22:10.33\00:22:12.03
and to the spirits of
just men made perfect. "
00:22:12.09\00:22:14.46
James: All right, so, in
the context of Hebrews 12,
00:22:14.50\00:22:18.23
22 and 23... which... by
the way the book of Hebrews,
00:22:18.27\00:22:21.97
is one of the keys
that unlocks Revelation
00:22:22.00\00:22:24.27
because it's filled
with Sanctuary language,
00:22:24.31\00:22:27.04
that identifies the
symbolism of the Sanctuary
00:22:27.08\00:22:29.78
throughout the
book of Revelation
00:22:29.84\00:22:31.18
like we just did with the
altar and so, here he says,
00:22:31.21\00:22:34.48
"Mount Sion... "
which is another symbol
00:22:34.52\00:22:36.69
that's used in Revelation 14,
00:22:36.72\00:22:38.12
Mount Sion with
a 144,000 stand...
00:22:38.15\00:22:40.29
Mount Sion is the
city of the living God...
00:22:40.32\00:22:43.02
it's the heavenly Jerusalem
so, this heavenly Jerusalem,
00:22:43.06\00:22:46.66
is what we find in the
innumerable company of angels
00:22:46.70\00:22:50.20
and we find the general assembly
and church of the firstborn
00:22:50.23\00:22:53.20
who are registered in heaven,
now it says, "registered"
00:22:53.23\00:22:55.87
because you're
not actually there yet
00:22:55.90\00:22:57.41
see... when you die...
you rest in the grave...
00:22:57.44\00:23:00.31
until the resurrection...
they're registered in heaven
00:23:00.34\00:23:04.61
okay, and so, this symbolism
in Revelation chapter 11
00:23:04.65\00:23:08.88
where it says, "the Holy City
shall they tread under foot"
00:23:08.92\00:23:11.69
it's talking about God's people
who are registered in heaven,
00:23:11.72\00:23:14.42
it's talking
about the persecution
00:23:14.46\00:23:16.62
that's going to take
place against God's people
00:23:16.66\00:23:18.39
during the Dark Ages,
00:23:18.46\00:23:19.79
God's people who are
registered in heaven,
00:23:19.83\00:23:21.73
Paul says it this way
in Ephesians 2, he says,
00:23:21.76\00:23:23.83
"as we are sitting in heavenly
places in Christ Jesus. "
00:23:23.87\00:23:27.20
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:23:27.24\00:23:28.57
James: So, what we
see here developing is
00:23:28.60\00:23:30.74
there's a persecution
that's going to be taking place
00:23:30.77\00:23:34.04
during that 42 months...
against the Holy City...
00:23:34.08\00:23:37.11
the new Jerusalem... God's
people are registered in heaven,
00:23:37.15\00:23:40.15
and that's exactly
what we see taking place
00:23:40.18\00:23:42.35
during the Dark Ages
but what's interesting is
00:23:42.38\00:23:44.52
that it's during this time
00:23:44.55\00:23:47.36
when God's people
are heavily persecuted
00:23:47.39\00:23:49.86
that there is an opportunity
for people to measure God,
00:23:49.89\00:23:54.96
they're measuring the altar,
00:23:55.00\00:23:57.07
in a sense, the sacrifice
of Jesus... which is repeated
00:23:57.13\00:23:59.47
in the hearts and the
experiences of God's people
00:23:59.50\00:24:01.17
then measuring
those who worship God,
00:24:01.20\00:24:02.97
the stake... the
pile of burning wood was
00:24:03.00\00:24:08.24
a most powerful
testimonial witness
00:24:08.28\00:24:10.31
for the gospel
during the Dark Ages,
00:24:10.35\00:24:12.31
people would go
there in their best clothes
00:24:12.35\00:24:15.45
with their faces shining
and they would sing hymns
00:24:15.48\00:24:18.92
as they were
being burned to death
00:24:18.95\00:24:20.52
as martyrs for Christ.
00:24:20.56\00:24:21.89
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:24:21.92\00:24:23.26
James: They would
lay in their tomb...
00:24:23.29\00:24:27.73
some of them were buried alive,
00:24:27.76\00:24:29.13
some of them were put
into the waters and drowned
00:24:29.16\00:24:32.30
and they would do it with
peace on their faces and joy...
00:24:32.33\00:24:38.11
Perkin... Perkin and others...
Huss, Jerome, those who...
00:24:38.14\00:24:43.75
who gave their
lives for the gospel,
00:24:43.78\00:24:46.01
didn't waver when
it came to the very end
00:24:46.05\00:24:49.08
in the account of
Huss, I believe it is,
00:24:49.12\00:24:51.95
the guy... the Executioner came
behind him to burn the pile,
00:24:51.99\00:24:56.16
he said, "Come to my
face... I don't fear to die...
00:24:56.19\00:24:59.06
I wouldn't be here
if I feared to die"
00:24:59.09\00:25:00.80
so you have these
powerful witnesses
00:25:00.83\00:25:02.96
being given during the Dark Ages
00:25:03.00\00:25:05.10
and that's the Jerusalem City
00:25:05.13\00:25:07.17
that's actually
registered in heaven
00:25:07.20\00:25:09.17
that's been a witness of Christ
00:25:09.20\00:25:10.54
and now we're going to find
out how that witness was given,
00:25:10.57\00:25:12.74
what was the source,
00:25:12.77\00:25:14.11
what was it that
gave the strength
00:25:14.14\00:25:16.01
to that witness,
00:25:16.04\00:25:17.38
where do they get
their strength from?
00:25:17.41\00:25:18.75
Where are we going to
get our strength from?
00:25:18.78\00:25:20.15
And that's what we
just see in the next verse,
00:25:20.22\00:25:22.52
verse 3... Jason, can
you read verse 3 for us?
00:25:22.55\00:25:24.79
Jason: Sure, "And I will give
power unto my two witnesses,
00:25:24.82\00:25:28.79
and they shall prophesy
00:25:28.82\00:25:30.16
a thousand two
hundred and threescore days,
00:25:30.19\00:25:32.66
clothed in sackcloth. "
00:25:32.69\00:25:34.03
James: Keep going, 4 and 5.
00:25:34.06\00:25:35.40
Jason: "These are the two olive
trees, and the two candlesticks
00:25:35.43\00:25:37.77
standing before
the God of the earth
00:25:37.80\00:25:39.43
And if any man will hurt them,
00:25:39.47\00:25:41.34
fire proceedeth
out of their mouth,
00:25:41.37\00:25:43.10
and devoureth their enemies:
00:25:43.14\00:25:44.74
and if any man will hurt them,
00:25:44.77\00:25:46.31
he must in this
manner be killed. "
00:25:46.34\00:25:47.68
James: Six...
00:25:47.71\00:25:49.14
Jason: "These have
power to shut heaven,
00:25:49.18\00:25:51.45
that it rain not in
the days of their prophecy:
00:25:51.48\00:25:54.82
and have power over
waters to turn them to blood,
00:25:54.85\00:25:58.15
and to smite the
earth with all plagues,
00:25:58.19\00:26:00.52
as often as they will. "
00:26:00.56\00:26:01.89
James: All
right... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:26:01.92\00:26:03.26
James: These are the key verses,
00:26:03.29\00:26:04.63
now, we're running out of time,
we only have a couple of minutes
00:26:04.66\00:26:06.13
left so we're going
to do a cliffhanger...
00:26:06.16\00:26:07.76
Yvonne: Oh... James:
And the cliffhanger is...
00:26:07.80\00:26:09.40
you come right to
the end and you go,
00:26:09.46\00:26:10.80
"Now, this is the... the...
the the... the... boom! stop!"
00:26:10.83\00:26:12.87
Yvonne: Yeah, because I have...
00:26:12.93\00:26:15.17
I have some
questions about that.
00:26:15.20\00:26:17.51
James: This is
the source, right?
00:26:17.54\00:26:19.77
This is the source...
what we have right here...
00:26:19.81\00:26:22.54
is we have the
source and the power
00:26:22.58\00:26:25.61
of the witnesses for
Christ. Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:26:25.65\00:26:28.28
James: How could they stand so
strongly during the Dark Ages?
00:26:28.32\00:26:31.42
How could they resist the
stake and the fire and the flame
00:26:31.45\00:26:34.49
and the torment and the torture?
00:26:34.52\00:26:35.99
How could they be shining
00:26:36.02\00:26:37.56
bright lights for
God during this time,
00:26:37.63\00:26:39.96
well, it's because of this...
00:26:40.00\00:26:41.33
because of what
we just read here,
00:26:41.36\00:26:42.70
well, what is this?
This sounds very wooooh...
00:26:42.73\00:26:46.94
like, "What... what is... "
00:26:46.97\00:26:48.30
what are we talking about here?
00:26:48.34\00:26:50.01
What is the source of the
strength for every Christian?
00:26:50.07\00:26:53.41
Well, verse 4 is
where we're going to start,
00:26:53.44\00:26:55.34
and I hate to get into
this without a lot of time left,
00:26:55.38\00:26:59.98
so, we've only got 59
seconds so, we'd better...
00:27:00.02\00:27:02.55
we'd better back
up... we'll start...
00:27:02.58\00:27:04.35
we'll pick up with
verse 4, and do it there,
00:27:04.42\00:27:06.82
all right, Jason,
00:27:06.86\00:27:08.56
what do we have for our Viewers?
00:27:08.59\00:27:09.92
Jason: We'd love if
our Viewers would send in
00:27:09.96\00:27:13.56
either questions on
video to sss@3abn. org
00:27:13.60\00:27:17.20
or just e-mail
us their questions
00:27:17.23\00:27:19.40
that you guys can answer.
00:27:19.43\00:27:21.50
Yvonne: Laughter...
00:27:21.54\00:27:22.87
James: I don't know... I
think we can get to the place
00:27:22.90\00:27:24.91
where we get to kind of like,
00:27:24.97\00:27:26.31
transition a few
of those questions
00:27:26.34\00:27:27.68
to thee... to thou...
00:27:27.71\00:27:30.48
Yvonne: Oh yes,
that's why... that's why the
00:27:30.51\00:27:32.85
network is
called: Dare to Dream.
00:27:32.88\00:27:34.22
James: Right, right,
you got it, Dare to Dream.
00:27:34.25\00:27:37.72
Yvonne: We're daring
to do it in Jesus' name.
00:27:37.75\00:27:40.26
James: So we're going
to leave off in verse 4
00:27:40.29\00:27:42.76
when we come to our next Program
we'll pick up right there,
00:27:42.79\00:27:44.69
we'll try to
identify these two olive trees
00:27:44.73\00:27:46.56
and the rest of
these verses here,
00:27:46.59\00:27:48.53
what do they mean,
what is the significance
00:27:48.56\00:27:50.77
of these verses and
how does that relate
00:27:50.80\00:27:52.93
to God's faithful
people during the Dark Ages.
00:27:52.97\00:27:54.84
That's what we want to uncover,
that's what we want to know.
00:27:54.87\00:27:56.74
Yvonne: Great. James: All right.
00:27:56.77\00:27:58.27
Yvonne: Thank you, yeah...
00:27:58.31\00:27:59.67