Okay, we are ready to move into
00:00:29.82\00:00:32.33
Revelation
chapter 8 and verse 9.
00:00:32.36\00:00:34.53
That's actually
where we left off
00:00:34.56\00:00:36.67
and we've reviewed
just a little bit...
00:00:36.70\00:00:39.97
we've summarized just a little
bit... some of the principles,
00:00:40.00\00:00:42.30
some of the interpretations,
I think it's been good for us
00:00:42.37\00:00:44.61
because this
helps us to get on track
00:00:44.67\00:00:47.34
and ready to move into verse 9,
00:00:47.38\00:00:48.74
Jason, can you read
Revelation 8 verse 9 for us
00:00:48.78\00:00:51.68
and Yvonne, would you
have a word of prayer for us
00:00:51.71\00:00:53.75
and then we'll get
right over. Yvonne: Sure.
00:00:53.78\00:00:55.85
Jason: "And the
third part of the creatures
00:00:55.88\00:00:57.95
which were in the
sea, and had life, died;
00:00:57.99\00:01:00.76
and the third part of
the ships were destroyed"
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and you said verse
10 too just verse 9?
00:01:03.39\00:01:06.09
James: No, that's
it... just 9 for now,
00:01:06.16\00:01:08.80
we're going to pray over
it and then we're going to go.
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Yvonne: "Father God, we
just thank you so very much
00:01:11.37\00:01:13.60
that you're in our midst Lord,
00:01:13.64\00:01:15.40
we thank you
for your Holy Spirit
00:01:15.44\00:01:17.54
who is going to
guide us Lord God
00:01:17.57\00:01:19.57
according to your
promise so we just claim that
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in the name of Jesus and
I thank you so much again
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for the blessings that
you have bestowed upon us
00:01:25.45\00:01:28.32
through your Word,
00:01:28.38\00:01:29.72
please now guide
us into all truth,
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we pray in Jesus' name, amen. "
00:01:32.05\00:01:33.39
All: "Amen... "
00:01:33.42\00:01:34.76
All right, verse 9 is a
segue into the next trumpet
00:01:34.79\00:01:38.16
which is the third trumpet
or the third angel in verse 10.
00:01:38.19\00:01:40.70
The segue that's
taking place here
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if we're looking at
the history from verse 8...
00:01:43.06\00:01:45.27
I see, Ivor is ready to explode
here... he's ready to jump in...
00:01:45.30\00:01:48.67
verse 8 is this
burning mountain Isaiah 51
00:01:48.70\00:01:52.14
and I think it was
verse 25, somewhere in there,
00:01:52.17\00:01:55.88
let me just look
at my notes here,
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is the judgment that
came upon verse 25...
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that came upon Pagan Rome.
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It... this burning
mountain is cast into the sea
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swallowed up by
the nations, kindreds,
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tongues and peoples of Europe,
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as Pagan Rome goes down,
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another power has
been steadily coming up
00:02:11.89\00:02:13.86
but that power comes up
00:02:13.90\00:02:16.63
by compromising the
faith of Christianity,
00:02:16.67\00:02:19.43
the truth of Christianity
00:02:19.47\00:02:20.80
and so, the segue
is taking place here
00:02:20.84\00:02:23.30
in verse 9... "the
third part of the creatures
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which were in the
sea and had life... "
00:02:25.81\00:02:28.18
why does God say, "the
creatures that had life?"
00:02:28.21\00:02:30.45
If there are
creatures in the sea,
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they automatically have life,
so, there's an insight here
00:02:31.85\00:02:34.78
that we need to grab ahold
of in relation to the symbolism
00:02:34.82\00:02:37.82
of these creatures...
00:02:37.85\00:02:39.19
"and the third part of
the ships were destroyed,"
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now, I want to start
us out by just looking at
00:02:40.96\00:02:42.82
the way the word "creatures"
is used in the New Testament.
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Ivor: Can I jump in... I
don't want to do that yet.
00:02:48.56\00:02:51.20
James: Jump in,
Ivor, jump in... boom...
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Ivor: Okay, let's
start with the "third" first.
00:02:52.60\00:02:54.10
James: Okay. Ivor: Okay, so...
00:02:54.14\00:02:55.90
what do we see that a third
represents in the Scripture?
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Every time we look at
the Book of Revelation,
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and we see that
number... one-third...
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James: Revelation 12...
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Ivor: Revelation 12... you
have the fall of these angels,
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at one time...
right... on the side of God...
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but then they rebelled...
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James: I got it... I got
it... Ivor: Right... you got it?
00:03:15.76\00:03:17.29
James: Yeah, go ahead...
00:03:17.33\00:03:19.23
Ivor: Right, so, we
see this number "one-third"
00:03:19.29\00:03:22.96
it's a number that is
used to symbolize apostasy.
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James: Falling
away... Yvonne: Ah...
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Ivor: The falling away...
yeah. James: That's it...
00:03:28.04\00:03:29.67
Ivor: So now, when
we go to creatures...
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I think you're going to Mark...
00:03:32.27\00:03:33.64
James: Yes, yes, well,
there are a number of verses...
00:03:33.68\00:03:36.11
the one I'm looking at
here is in Colossians 1:23...
00:03:36.14\00:03:38.58
where it says, "If
you continue in the faith
00:03:38.61\00:03:41.08
grounded and
settled, and be not moved away
00:03:41.12\00:03:43.52
from the hope of the
gospel, which you have heard,
00:03:43.55\00:03:45.52
which was preached to every
creature which is under heaven;
00:03:45.55\00:03:47.69
whereof I Paul
am made a minister"
00:03:47.72\00:03:50.13
that's
Colossians 1:23 Ivor: Right.
00:03:50.16\00:03:52.13
James: Creatures would represent
00:03:52.16\00:03:54.06
especially creatures that
had life would represent...
00:03:54.10\00:03:57.17
because the Word of
Life, the Bread of Life...
00:03:57.20\00:03:59.40
the gospel of eternal life...
00:03:59.43\00:04:01.40
creatures would represent those
who had received the gospel...
00:04:01.44\00:04:04.37
who had heard the
gospel... and had life
00:04:04.41\00:04:06.74
but now they're dying...
00:04:06.78\00:04:08.11
Ivor: Because Jesus had
said in His gospel commission...
00:04:08.14\00:04:10.88
"go and preach the
gospel to every creature... "
00:04:10.95\00:04:13.42
so "creature" is
not... again we are ...
00:04:13.48\00:04:15.88
talking about this
is not literal... so...
00:04:15.92\00:04:18.15
we're not talking about one-
third of fish in the sea dying,
00:04:18.19\00:04:21.69
we're talking about
one-third of the creatures
00:04:21.72\00:04:23.32
so we have one-third...
00:04:23.36\00:04:25.16
James: Among the nations and
peoples and tongues of these...
00:04:25.19\00:04:26.80
Ivor: Right... right... so
here's the interesting thing
00:04:26.83\00:04:28.93
is that God...
Jesus, in His commission,
00:04:28.96\00:04:31.77
had sent His people
really... into the sea...
00:04:31.80\00:04:35.57
and what I mean by that
is into the peoples, nations,
00:04:35.60\00:04:38.27
multitudes and tongues,
00:04:38.31\00:04:39.64
they were then
to take the gospel
00:04:39.67\00:04:41.01
and take it into the
world and spread that gospel,
00:04:41.04\00:04:44.21
they were to preach to every...
00:04:44.25\00:04:45.65
every creature in
the sea, as it were,
00:04:45.68\00:04:49.05
they were to win the...
00:04:49.08\00:04:50.42
win people to
the gospel of Christ,
00:04:50.45\00:04:52.45
so, I think what
we're seeing here
00:04:52.49\00:04:54.49
is that... there is a
reference to a group of people
00:04:54.52\00:04:58.29
right, who were Christians
that something begins...
00:04:58.36\00:05:01.46
Believers... that something
begins to happen to them
00:05:01.50\00:05:05.33
within this context,
within what's happening in Rome
00:05:05.37\00:05:09.17
that is
ultimately going to lead us
00:05:09.20\00:05:10.67
to the third
trumpet... once we get there.
00:05:10.71\00:05:12.31
James: Yeah, because Satan
was once a follower of God,
00:05:12.34\00:05:14.74
he was created by God,
he was a believer in God
00:05:14.78\00:05:17.25
and the angels there
that were created in heaven
00:05:17.28\00:05:19.65
all believed and followed
God and then they fell away
00:05:19.68\00:05:22.92
and they became the
third part that he deceived
00:05:22.95\00:05:25.72
so that symbolism right
here just fits perfectly
00:05:25.75\00:05:28.49
so the third
part of the creatures
00:05:28.52\00:05:30.66
would not necessarily
represent one-third, literally
00:05:30.69\00:05:32.99
but simply those who once
believed and accepted the gospel
00:05:33.03\00:05:36.33
falling away...
and we see this...
00:05:36.36\00:05:37.87
Ivor: They had life.
00:05:37.93\00:05:39.27
James: Yes, they had life...
do we see this in the churches?
00:05:39.30\00:05:42.34
Do we see this history taking
place in the churches? Yes.
00:05:42.37\00:05:45.61
Do we see it in the seals? Yes.
00:05:45.64\00:05:47.78
So now we're seeing
it again in the trumpets,
00:05:47.81\00:05:50.15
it's going to be confirmed
00:05:50.21\00:05:51.85
when we look at the
third and the fourth trumpet,
00:05:51.88\00:05:53.42
but it's beginning... the
transition beginning right here
00:05:53.45\00:05:56.02
in verse 9 of the 2nd trumpet
00:05:56.05\00:05:58.22
because Rome was
fallen... it leaves a vacancy...
00:05:58.25\00:06:01.19
that vacancy is going
to be filled historically
00:06:01.22\00:06:04.23
by a compromise that
takes place with Pagan...
00:06:04.26\00:06:07.20
Paganism and Christianity...
00:06:07.26\00:06:09.43
in order for that
compromise to take place,
00:06:09.46\00:06:11.97
Christianity has to
give up the faith...
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which is what really
is cool because it says,
00:06:14.47\00:06:16.37
ships were
destroyed, now notice this,
00:06:16.40\00:06:17.84
I'm going to read
these verses to you
00:06:17.87\00:06:19.27
and see if you can relate
it to the ships being destroyed
00:06:19.31\00:06:21.01
these are two verses
that I'm going to read to you,
00:06:21.04\00:06:23.35
here they go, first
verse, 1st Timothy 1:19,
00:06:23.38\00:06:26.82
"Holding faith,
and a good conscience;
00:06:26.85\00:06:29.98
which some
having put away faith...
00:06:30.02\00:06:33.09
concerning faith
have made shipwreck... "
00:06:33.12\00:06:35.76
and this next one, Hebrews 6:19,
00:06:35.79\00:06:39.33
"This hope in God we
have as an anchor of the soul,
00:06:39.36\00:06:42.60
both sure and steadfast,
00:06:42.63\00:06:44.17
which enters the
presence behind the veil... "
00:06:44.20\00:06:47.44
an anchor to the soul...
anchors are related to ships
00:06:47.47\00:06:50.44
shipwreck of faith...
turning away from the faith,
00:06:50.51\00:06:53.17
making shipwreck of
faith, both of these verses
00:06:53.21\00:06:55.91
are implying what we
see here in the symbolism
00:06:55.94\00:06:58.58
of the fact that when
these creatures that had life
00:06:58.61\00:07:01.08
compromised after
the fall of Pagan Rome,
00:07:01.12\00:07:04.19
they start compromising
their faith with Paganism,
00:07:04.22\00:07:06.35
and Paganism starts
coming in the church,
00:07:06.39\00:07:08.46
their ships... their
faith is destroyed...
00:07:08.52\00:07:10.63
that's what we
see taking place here.
00:07:10.66\00:07:12.69
Let me add two verses here,
Revelation 18 and verse 17,
00:07:12.73\00:07:15.70
the Bible says here,
"For in one hour... "
00:07:15.73\00:07:18.60
talking about Babylon... okay...
00:07:18.63\00:07:20.64
"For in one hour so
great riches is come to naught.
00:07:20.67\00:07:23.07
And every
shipmaster, and all the company
00:07:23.10\00:07:25.77
in ships, and sailors, and
as many as trade by sea... "
00:07:25.81\00:07:30.35
so I want to focus on
that term, "trade by sea"
00:07:30.38\00:07:33.92
because the purpose
of ships... they carry...
00:07:33.95\00:07:37.02
they carry goods... merchandise,
00:07:37.05\00:07:39.45
okay, so, ships
represent trading, you know,
00:07:39.49\00:07:42.19
trading of goods,
carrying of merchandise
00:07:42.22\00:07:44.86
from one place to
another, upon the seas... right,
00:07:44.89\00:07:48.23
peoples, nations,
multitudes and tongues,
00:07:48.26\00:07:50.53
let's go to Proverbs
31 and hold that thought
00:07:50.57\00:07:52.47
and we're going to
look at Proverbs 31...
00:07:52.50\00:07:54.30
and in Proverbs 31...
which is a beautiful chapter
00:07:54.34\00:07:59.67
because Proverbs 31 actually
00:07:59.74\00:08:04.41
is the Proverb of
the virtuous woman
00:08:04.45\00:08:07.92
and it's interesting how
verse 1 begins of Proverbs 31...
00:08:07.95\00:08:12.09
it says, "The
words that king Lemuel...
00:08:12.15\00:08:14.16
The words of king Lemuel,
00:08:14.19\00:08:16.69
the prophecy that
his mother taught him. "
00:08:16.73\00:08:19.76
Proverbs 31 is a prophecy...
00:08:19.79\00:08:21.46
James: Hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:08:21.53\00:08:23.13
Ivor: It actually says it
right there in the first verse,
00:08:23.16\00:08:25.30
it's very interesting because
what Proverbs 31 talks about...
00:08:25.33\00:08:28.24
is corrupt women and
then a virtuous woman
00:08:28.27\00:08:33.71
in verses 1 through 9,
it's talking about strange women
00:08:33.74\00:08:37.78
that give wine to kings
and cause them to forget
00:08:37.81\00:08:41.82
what God said to remember
00:08:41.85\00:08:43.42
and then the rest of
the chapter goes into,
00:08:43.45\00:08:46.45
"Who can know a virtuous woman?"
00:08:46.49\00:08:48.42
The virtuous woman is symbolic
of the Church, the true church
00:08:48.49\00:08:52.99
so when you read Proverbs
31, this is a good side study
00:08:53.06\00:08:55.90
all these things it's
saying about the virtuous woman
00:08:55.93\00:08:58.67
is actually describing
the work of the church,
00:08:58.70\00:09:01.00
so now, notice with me verse 14,
00:09:01.07\00:09:03.91
verse 14...
speaking of the church
00:09:03.94\00:09:06.71
it says, "She is
like the merchants' ships;
00:09:06.78\00:09:09.01
she bringeth her
food from afar. "
00:09:09.04\00:09:12.75
What is she bringing on
this ship? Food... right...
00:09:12.78\00:09:15.92
Ivor: Nourishment...
look down on verse 18...
00:09:15.95\00:09:19.02
James: Bread... Yvonne: Bread...
00:09:19.05\00:09:20.56
Ivor: Exactly... verse 18...
00:09:20.59\00:09:22.06
"She perceiveth that
her merchandise is good:
00:09:22.09\00:09:24.06
her candle goeth
not out by night. "
00:09:24.09\00:09:25.69
It's talking
about merchandise here,
00:09:25.73\00:09:27.26
what's on the ship?
Merchandise... food...
00:09:27.30\00:09:30.70
goods... so what
happens under this...
00:09:30.73\00:09:34.14
what happens is, compromise...
00:09:34.17\00:09:37.97
a compromise of the gospel, a
compromise of the living bread
00:09:38.04\00:09:41.68
those who once carried
or once believed in Christ,
00:09:41.74\00:09:46.08
somehow or another...
begin to fall into apostasy
00:09:46.11\00:09:50.42
and this again is a
transition that we see
00:09:50.45\00:09:54.06
more fully fleshed out
under the third trumpet
00:09:54.09\00:09:57.13
and the fourth trumpet.
00:09:57.16\00:09:58.49
James: Yes, but we
know it begins here
00:09:58.53\00:09:59.86
because the third trumpet is
going to take us right into...
00:09:59.89\00:10:02.33
the rise of this
power and strength...
00:10:02.36\00:10:04.93
Ivor: As one enemy is
falling... as Rome is falling...
00:10:04.97\00:10:08.04
in which were the
second enemies of God's people,
00:10:08.07\00:10:11.11
remember
Jerusalem... first enemies...
00:10:11.14\00:10:13.17
they fall... then the
new enemy becomes Rome,
00:10:13.21\00:10:16.21
as Rome is falling...
00:10:16.24\00:10:17.58
Satan is already
working on a new enemy.
00:10:17.61\00:10:19.71
He's like, "Oh man! I'm losing
Rome... what are you guys doing"
00:10:19.75\00:10:23.12
okay, he's got to
transition to a new enemy
00:10:23.15\00:10:25.49
and what we're going to
see and I think it's important
00:10:25.52\00:10:27.82
for us to point
out James is that...
00:10:27.86\00:10:29.29
remember from our paralleling
of the churches and the seals,
00:10:29.32\00:10:34.76
we know that church number 3,
church number 4, church number 5
00:10:34.80\00:10:40.24
and church number 6,
00:10:40.27\00:10:41.67
all cover about the
span of the Dark Ages,
00:10:41.70\00:10:44.91
and a little bit beyond...
00:10:44.94\00:10:46.27
there's one dominant
force in the Dark Ages,
00:10:46.31\00:10:49.54
it's the Papal System...
00:10:49.58\00:10:51.51
so what can we know
just what can we know
00:10:51.55\00:10:53.38
before even going
into the other trumpets?
00:10:53.42\00:10:55.22
Is that trumpet number 3,
number 4, number 5 and number 6
00:10:55.25\00:11:03.29
must all deal
with the same enemy
00:11:03.32\00:11:06.06
because the
same enemy is present
00:11:06.09\00:11:08.80
throughout the entire Dark
Ages, you see what I'm saying?
00:11:08.83\00:11:12.07
So, all these entities
that are going to arise,
00:11:12.13\00:11:14.80
are going to be
somehow connected
00:11:14.84\00:11:17.24
with the main adversary who...
00:11:17.27\00:11:19.64
from the third church on
downward... is the Papal System,
00:11:19.67\00:11:24.01
so we know who we're looking for
00:11:24.05\00:11:26.48
but we need to know
what we're looking for.
00:11:26.51\00:11:28.88
James: Now I want us to
go back to another verse...
00:11:28.95\00:11:31.35
another series of verses
00:11:31.39\00:11:32.72
that also parallel
the Book of Revelation
00:11:32.75\00:11:35.66
and the prophecies of Daniel as
well as Matthew, Mark and Luke
00:11:35.72\00:11:39.36
and that is 2nd
Thessalonians chapter 2
00:11:39.39\00:11:42.50
and we're going to look
at a few verses here because
00:11:42.56\00:11:44.10
this is going to be a summary
of what we just talked about
00:11:44.13\00:11:46.80
so now we're summarizing
everything we talked about
00:11:46.84\00:11:48.64
but we're going to do
it in the words of Paul
00:11:48.67\00:11:50.84
so, so, Jason read for us
if you get to 2nd Thessalonians
00:11:50.91\00:11:55.91
chapter 2... I'm
going to pick on you here,
00:11:55.94\00:11:57.75
I want you to read for us
2nd Thessalonians chapter 2
00:11:57.78\00:12:01.08
and I want you to
read verses 1 through 7...
00:12:01.12\00:12:06.49
yeah, 1 through 7...
00:12:06.52\00:12:09.32
Jason: Okay, "Now we
beseech you, brethren,
00:12:09.36\00:12:12.03
by the coming of
our Lord Jesus Christ,
00:12:12.06\00:12:14.36
and by our
gathering together unto him,
00:12:14.40\00:12:16.60
That ye be not soon
shaken in mind, or be troubled,
00:12:16.63\00:12:19.93
neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter
00:12:20.00\00:12:23.07
as from us, as that the
day of Christ is at hand.
00:12:23.10\00:12:26.14
Let no man
deceive you by any means:
00:12:26.17\00:12:28.81
for that day shall not come,
00:12:28.84\00:12:30.25
except there come
falling away first,
00:12:30.28\00:12:33.25
and that man of sin be revealed,
00:12:33.28\00:12:35.72
the son of perdition;
00:12:35.75\00:12:37.09
Who opposeth
and exalteth himself
00:12:37.12\00:12:40.29
above all that is called
God, or that is worshipped;
00:12:40.32\00:12:43.36
so that he as God
sitteth in the temple of God,
00:12:43.39\00:12:46.56
shewing himself that he is God.
00:12:46.59\00:12:48.83
Remember ye not, that,
when I was yet with you,
00:12:48.86\00:12:52.13
I told you these things?
00:12:52.17\00:12:53.50
And now ye know what withholdeth
00:12:53.54\00:12:56.60
that he might be
revealed in his time.
00:12:56.64\00:12:59.74
For the mystery of
iniquity doth already work:
00:12:59.77\00:13:04.05
only he who now
letteth will let,
00:13:04.08\00:13:07.08
until he be
taken out of the way. "
00:13:07.12\00:13:10.15
James: Okay,
this is the prophecy
00:13:10.19\00:13:13.19
that fits in these verses and
let me just explain it for you,
00:13:13.22\00:13:17.53
Paul here is reassuring
the church in Thessalonica
00:13:17.56\00:13:22.50
that the second coming of Christ
00:13:22.53\00:13:24.33
is not going to
happen right in their day
00:13:24.37\00:13:26.07
because he had
written the first letter
00:13:26.10\00:13:27.77
and some people
had fallen asleep
00:13:27.80\00:13:29.57
and he said, "Don't
be troubled about this,
00:13:29.60\00:13:31.21
we which are alive and remain
00:13:31.24\00:13:33.17
will be caught up
together with them,
00:13:33.21\00:13:34.81
they won't proceed us...
00:13:34.84\00:13:36.18
oh, we're going to be
alive when Jesus comes... "
00:13:36.21\00:13:37.98
so then he writes in
the 2nd letter and he says,
00:13:38.01\00:13:39.81
"Don't be troubled or deceived,
even as a letter from us
00:13:39.85\00:13:44.25
as though Christ is
coming immediately...
00:13:44.29\00:13:46.76
first of all... there has
got to be a falling away...
00:13:46.79\00:13:49.36
there's going to
be a big apostasy
00:13:49.39\00:13:50.73
that's going to take
place within the church... "
00:13:50.76\00:13:52.33
this is what he's
saying and the reason why
00:13:52.36\00:13:55.83
this apostasy is
going to take place...
00:13:55.86\00:13:57.20
he's basing it actually
on the Book of Daniel...
00:13:57.23\00:13:59.30
the prophecies of Daniel...
we're not going to look at that,
00:13:59.33\00:14:01.50
but here is the
point he's making,
00:14:01.57\00:14:03.00
this is going to take place
00:14:03.04\00:14:05.07
and this apostasy is
going to lead to a person
00:14:05.11\00:14:08.94
who exalts himself
in the place of God
00:14:08.98\00:14:10.85
but this person is not
going to be revealed yet,
00:14:10.88\00:14:14.28
here's the key
verse... verse 6...
00:14:14.32\00:14:17.42
"You know what withholdeth...
what withholds him
00:14:17.45\00:14:22.59
from being revealed in his time.
00:14:22.62\00:14:24.53
For the mystery of
iniquity is already working...
00:14:24.56\00:14:27.03
the mystery of
iniquity is this apostasy,
00:14:27.06\00:14:29.30
it's already working
but he who now lets will let
00:14:29.36\00:14:32.93
until he be
taken out of the way. "
00:14:32.97\00:14:34.30
In other words Pagan
Rome was standing in the way
00:14:34.37\00:14:37.67
of the
emergence of this power...
00:14:37.71\00:14:40.58
this mystery of
iniquity and Paul was saying
00:14:40.61\00:14:43.31
because Paul lived in that time
00:14:43.35\00:14:44.78
when Pagan Rome
was a prominent power,
00:14:44.81\00:14:46.78
he was saying, "Now
this Pagan Roman power
00:14:46.82\00:14:48.52
is going to
continue to hold that back
00:14:48.55\00:14:50.59
not until it's
taken out of the way,
00:14:50.62\00:14:52.55
will this other
power be revealed. "
00:14:52.59\00:14:54.22
That's basically
what he's saying.
00:14:54.26\00:14:55.86
Ivor: When that mountain
falls, that falling away
00:14:55.89\00:14:59.23
not only
referenced as an apostasy
00:14:59.26\00:15:02.20
but also the power... that power
00:15:02.23\00:15:05.10
being moved out of the
way... cast into the sea...
00:15:05.13\00:15:07.90
that would create
or prepare the way
00:15:07.94\00:15:10.87
for the rise of the papacy...
00:15:10.91\00:15:12.67
so we're talking
about a fall of a kingdom
00:15:12.74\00:15:15.54
but also a falling away...
an apostasy of the church.
00:15:15.58\00:15:20.18
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:15:20.22\00:15:21.55
James: That's what
Paul is talking about here.
00:15:21.58\00:15:23.52
and that's why he calls
him the "son of perdition"
00:15:23.55\00:15:25.39
you know that phrase...
00:15:25.42\00:15:26.76
who that phrase refers
to... "the son of perdition?"
00:15:26.79\00:15:28.92
It refers to Judas...
00:15:28.96\00:15:30.46
Yvonne: Oh...
00:15:30.49\00:15:32.09
James: Judas was
called the son of perdition
00:15:32.16\00:15:33.80
so again, the same
thing that Ivor brought up
00:15:33.83\00:15:35.40
in relation to
Satan and these stars...
00:15:35.43\00:15:38.17
the third part of the stars...
00:15:38.20\00:15:39.97
third part representing those
00:15:40.00\00:15:41.70
who were once
faithful are deceived,
00:15:41.74\00:15:43.20
Judas... son of perdition...
represents those who are
00:15:43.27\00:15:46.07
faithful
"professed follower of Christ"
00:15:46.11\00:15:49.11
"professed disciple of Christ"
00:15:49.14\00:15:50.48
Judas was following Jesus...
following Jesus... but...
00:15:50.51\00:15:52.51
but then he betrays
Him... "the son of perdition"
00:15:52.55\00:15:55.75
so you've got this
phrase describing this power,
00:15:55.78\00:15:58.25
this ministry of
iniquity that's going to rise up
00:15:58.29\00:16:00.76
in the place of Pagan
Rome, it's going to rise up
00:16:00.79\00:16:03.19
it's "the son of perdition... "
that professes to follow Christ
00:16:03.22\00:16:06.73
but actually deceives Christ,
actually betrays Christ...
00:16:06.80\00:16:10.37
it actually compromises
the truth of the gospel.
00:16:10.43\00:16:13.20
So this is a
summary of basically
00:16:13.23\00:16:14.94
what's happening
here in verse 9...
00:16:14.97\00:16:16.64
Ivor: I think it's important
for us to point out as well
00:16:16.67\00:16:19.71
that this
compromise... in part...
00:16:19.74\00:16:23.41
is due to Constantine's
invitation to Christianity
00:16:23.45\00:16:28.08
right, while the Roman
Empire was still standing
00:16:28.12\00:16:32.39
Constantine basically
makes Christianity the...
00:16:32.42\00:16:35.62
James: Popular...
Ivor: The State Religion
00:16:35.66\00:16:39.53
and there's something
dangerous that happens
00:16:39.56\00:16:43.47
when you begin to
unite Church with State.
00:16:43.50\00:16:47.80
The Church that had
just been persecuted...
00:16:47.87\00:16:51.21
under persecution...
they were totally...
00:16:51.27\00:16:54.54
yeah, they were totally
different... characteristic...
00:16:54.58\00:16:57.78
they were pure... and the
moment that it seems like,
00:16:57.81\00:17:00.98
"Oh, we're about
to be exalted... "
00:17:01.02\00:17:03.75
so remember
under the third church,
00:17:03.79\00:17:06.29
the church Pergamos...
it means "exaltation"
00:17:06.32\00:17:09.96
and it is when Rome basically
00:17:10.03\00:17:14.66
extends its hand
to... to Christianity
00:17:14.73\00:17:17.57
and says, "Will you marry me?"
that's what's going on there.
00:17:17.60\00:17:22.27
The husband of
the church is Christ,
00:17:22.30\00:17:24.81
the protector of
the church is Christ
00:17:24.87\00:17:27.31
but when the church
saw Rome extend its hand,
00:17:27.38\00:17:30.15
it said, "Oh, man, we
can have a king over us...
00:17:30.18\00:17:32.91
we can have
someone protecting us... "
00:17:32.95\00:17:35.48
they... it's...
it's... in a sense...
00:17:35.52\00:17:37.95
they stopped depending
upon Christ for protection
00:17:37.99\00:17:43.32
and said, "We think Constantine
00:17:43.36\00:17:45.53
might be able to
protect us better... "
00:17:45.56\00:17:46.90
and in any marriage
you've got to give and take...
00:17:46.93\00:17:48.96
so, that's what
begins to happen...
00:17:49.00\00:17:51.20
you begin to have
this give and take...
00:17:51.23\00:17:53.40
this compromise of
principles that basically
00:17:53.44\00:17:57.97
brings about a
compromise of the gospel.
00:17:58.01\00:18:02.51
James: Which by-the-way
I want to emphasize that
00:18:02.54\00:18:04.95
that's really good in marriage,
00:18:04.98\00:18:06.31
it's really good to have
give-and-take in marriage.
00:18:06.35\00:18:07.88
Ivor: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:18:07.92\00:18:09.28
James: As long as you
don't marry an unbeliever...
00:18:09.32\00:18:10.65
marrying an unbeliever and see
that's what's happening here,
00:18:10.69\00:18:13.49
the church is
marrying an unbeliever
00:18:13.52\00:18:15.02
so the give and take
isn't... is not appropriate.
00:18:15.06\00:18:17.09
All right, so we
move to verse 10?
00:18:17.13\00:18:18.96
Ivor: Yeah.
00:18:18.99\00:18:20.33
James; Okay, now we're going
to move into the third trumpet
00:18:20.36\00:18:22.73
we've seen this
marrying taking place
00:18:22.76\00:18:25.80
between paganism and the church,
00:18:25.83\00:18:27.50
we've seen the
compromise beginning
00:18:27.54\00:18:29.10
as we move into
the third trumpet
00:18:29.17\00:18:30.67
we can expect that to continue
and to get even stronger
00:18:30.71\00:18:33.54
in its revelation, so,
00:18:33.58\00:18:35.31
Yvonne, would you read
for us Revelation chapter 8
00:18:35.34\00:18:37.91
and let's read verses 10 and 11.
00:18:37.98\00:18:40.62
Yvonne: Sure... "And
the third angel sounded,
00:18:40.68\00:18:42.98
and there fell a
great star from heaven,
00:18:43.02\00:18:45.09
burning as it were a lamp,
00:18:45.12\00:18:46.65
and it fell upon
the third of the rivers
00:18:46.69\00:18:49.66
and upon the
fountains of waters;
00:18:49.69\00:18:51.76
And the name of the
star is called Wormwood:
00:18:51.79\00:18:54.33
and the third part of
the waters became wormwood:
00:18:54.36\00:18:57.43
and many men died of the waters,
because they were made bitter. "
00:18:57.47\00:19:01.04
James: Okay... so...
so... moving into this,
00:19:01.07\00:19:04.07
we have basically seen
a compromise take place,
00:19:04.11\00:19:07.08
we've seen
deception take place...
00:19:07.11\00:19:09.14
it's coming into the church
00:19:09.18\00:19:10.51
and now we're going to
see that thing growing.
00:19:10.55\00:19:13.21
The third angel sounds and
we have this star from heaven.
00:19:13.25\00:19:16.25
Who is this "star from heaven
burning as it were a lamp"
00:19:16.28\00:19:18.95
what does it mean that
he's burning as it were a lamp?
00:19:18.99\00:19:21.96
I think the first thing
that we need to look at here
00:19:22.02\00:19:24.99
is some of the symbolism...
00:19:25.03\00:19:26.36
one of the things that I've
noticed about the Bible is...
00:19:26.39\00:19:29.33
it's pretty
consistent in its symbols...
00:19:29.36\00:19:32.70
the star falling from heaven,
00:19:32.73\00:19:35.27
we look in Revelation
chapter 12 and we note that
00:19:35.30\00:19:38.17
Satan and his followers
are all likened to stars.
00:19:38.21\00:19:41.01
They're all symbolized as stars
00:19:41.04\00:19:43.38
and even Jesus said,
"I saw Satan as lightening
00:19:43.45\00:19:47.42
falling from heaven... " so
we've got this bright light,
00:19:47.45\00:19:50.05
we've got stars... all
of them symbolizing Satan
00:19:50.09\00:19:53.46
and then it says, "he's
burning, as it were, a lamp. "
00:19:53.49\00:19:57.13
What does that mean
"as it were a lamp?"
00:19:57.16\00:19:59.16
There's a verse in Psalms
that says, Psalm 119, I think,
00:19:59.19\00:20:03.60
it's verse 105 it
says... "Thy word... "
00:20:03.63\00:20:05.77
Yvonne: "is a lamp unto my feet"
00:20:05.80\00:20:07.34
James: Yes... "a lamp unto my
feet and a light unto my path"
00:20:07.37\00:20:09.50
could this verse be
describing the work of Satan
00:20:09.54\00:20:12.94
coming into the church...
burning as it were a lamp
00:20:12.97\00:20:16.34
Ivor: False light...
00:20:16.38\00:20:17.71
James: False
light... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:20:17.75\00:20:19.08
James: False light...
pretending like Judas,
00:20:19.11\00:20:23.79
to follow Christ... to
be a follower of Christ...
00:20:23.82\00:20:26.19
to hold forth the word of truth
00:20:26.22\00:20:27.56
but in a sense...
compromising that truth,
00:20:27.59\00:20:29.22
see we saw a lot of
compromising taking place
00:20:29.26\00:20:31.16
usually if you're
honest with yourself,
00:20:31.19\00:20:33.56
if you don't want to
accept the word of God
00:20:33.60\00:20:35.86
or if you want to
compromise the word of God,
00:20:35.90\00:20:37.90
you're just going to
walk away from faith,
00:20:37.93\00:20:39.87
but to try to hold on
to both, to try to actually
00:20:39.90\00:20:43.41
hold on the Word of
God and at the same time
00:20:43.44\00:20:45.47
to follow the principles of
the world... that's compromise
00:20:45.51\00:20:48.98
and Satan is a
master at doing this.
00:20:49.04\00:20:51.28
What does he do with Christ
when he's in the wilderness?
00:20:51.31\00:20:53.28
All: Tempts him...
00:20:53.31\00:20:55.15
James: Tempts him... how
does he tempt in the 2nd time,
00:20:55.18\00:20:56.52
what does he say to Him?
00:20:56.55\00:20:57.89
"It is written... "
"The Bible says... "
00:20:57.92\00:21:01.62
and what does Christ do when
He responds to that temptation?
00:21:01.66\00:21:05.16
Christ says, "It is
written... " again...
00:21:05.19\00:21:08.73
"It is written... " again...
so God's people continue
00:21:08.76\00:21:12.17
to rely upon the
Word, even though sometimes
00:21:12.23\00:21:14.14
that Word comes to them
in the form of compromise
00:21:14.17\00:21:16.17
and I think that's what
we see taking place here
00:21:16.20\00:21:18.17
we've got this angel,
00:21:18.21\00:21:20.11
this star from
heaven... I should say...
00:21:20.14\00:21:21.84
angel... bringing
it as it were a lamp
00:21:21.88\00:21:23.48
and it fell upon the
third part of the rivers
00:21:23.55\00:21:25.71
and upon the fountains of waters
00:21:25.75\00:21:27.55
what do we have
taking place in those verses?
00:21:27.58\00:21:29.38
Ivor: So the rivers
and the fountains of waters
00:21:29.42\00:21:32.65
obviously from the context of...
00:21:32.69\00:21:35.42
represent that's where you get,
that's where you drink from,
00:21:35.46\00:21:38.19
the Bible says men
died from the waters
00:21:38.23\00:21:40.60
because they were made
bitter, they drank these waters.
00:21:40.63\00:21:45.53
It's a symbol of the gospel,
okay, it's a symbol of waters
00:21:45.60\00:21:49.64
often used in the Bible to
symbolize the water of life,
00:21:49.67\00:21:53.64
the refreshing of the gospel
00:21:53.68\00:21:57.01
and so, when you
put this together,
00:21:57.05\00:21:59.48
fallen angel...
like a burning lamp...
00:21:59.51\00:22:01.85
that poisons the
waters causing men to die.
00:22:01.88\00:22:07.39
What you have here is a
poisoning of the gospel,
00:22:07.46\00:22:11.26
a perverting of the gospel.
00:22:11.29\00:22:12.99
There's a verse
I want to look at,
00:22:13.03\00:22:16.40
it's in Exodus 15 verse 22,
00:22:16.43\00:22:18.50
it actually parallels
this in an amazing way.
00:22:18.53\00:22:23.91
In Exodus 15
verses 22 to 26 and...
00:22:23.97\00:22:29.18
could you read
that for us Yvonne?
00:22:29.21\00:22:33.95
Yvonne: Sure.
00:22:33.98\00:22:35.32
Ivor: Chapter
15, verses 22 to 26.
00:22:35.35\00:22:39.89
Yvonne: 22...
ooops... 22 to 26...
00:22:39.92\00:22:44.66
"So Moses brought
Israel from the Red sea,
00:22:44.69\00:22:47.46
and they went out into
the wilderness of Shur;
00:22:47.50\00:22:49.80
and they went three
days in the wilderness,
00:22:49.83\00:22:52.10
and found no water.
00:22:52.13\00:22:53.47
And when they came to Marah,
00:22:53.50\00:22:55.10
they could not drink
of the waters of Marah,
00:22:55.14\00:22:56.91
for they were bitter
00:22:56.94\00:22:58.27
therefore the name
of it was called Marah.
00:22:58.31\00:23:00.78
And the people
murmured against Moses saying,
00:23:00.81\00:23:03.38
What shall we drink?
And he cried unto the Lord;
00:23:03.41\00:23:05.95
and the Lord shewed him a tree,
00:23:06.01\00:23:07.98
which when he had
cast into the waters,
00:23:08.02\00:23:10.45
the waters were made sweet:
there he made for them a statute
00:23:10.49\00:23:14.56
and an ordinance,
and there he proved them,
00:23:14.62\00:23:17.49
And said, If thou
wilt diligently hearken
00:23:17.53\00:23:20.40
to the voice of
the LORD thy God,
00:23:20.43\00:23:21.93
and will do that
which is right in his sight,
00:23:21.96\00:23:24.53
and will give ear
to his commandments,
00:23:24.57\00:23:26.23
and keep all his statutes,
00:23:26.27\00:23:28.27
I will put none of
these diseases upon thee
00:23:28.30\00:23:30.74
which I have
brought upon the Egyptians:
00:23:30.77\00:23:33.07
for I am the LORD,
that heareth thee. "
00:23:33.11\00:23:35.34
Ivor: All right... so this
is where you got the verse.
00:23:35.38\00:23:36.71
Yvonne: Yeah.
00:23:36.75\00:23:38.08
Ivor: Because here you
have these waters that are...
00:23:38.11\00:23:39.81
that were bitter
and then God says,
00:23:39.85\00:23:43.25
"I want you to take
a tree... " a tree...
00:23:43.28\00:23:47.26
a tree... a
tree... and when the tree
00:23:47.29\00:23:51.16
is cast into the
water, it's made sweet again.
00:23:51.19\00:23:54.66
The gospel of
Christ is made sweet
00:23:54.70\00:23:56.83
by the sacrifice
of Christ, right?
00:23:56.87\00:23:58.57
Yvonne: Oh... a tree...
00:23:58.60\00:23:59.93
Ivor: it's a
sacrifice of Christ a tree...
00:23:59.97\00:24:01.57
the tree is what makes
the water alive again, right,
00:24:01.60\00:24:05.01
so, what you have here
00:24:05.04\00:24:06.88
is a "Cross-less religion,"
a Christless religion...
00:24:06.91\00:24:09.98
something that's
been compromised,
00:24:10.01\00:24:11.91
the water is bitter
and men who come to drink,
00:24:11.95\00:24:14.95
they die from the water
instead of gaining life.
00:24:14.98\00:24:18.15
And then he says,
"Look, if you will diligently
00:24:18.19\00:24:21.32
hearken to the
voice of the LORD your God
00:24:21.36\00:24:22.72
and do that which is right
00:24:22.76\00:24:24.09
and will keep
his commandments... "
00:24:24.13\00:24:25.49
you're not going to suffer...
00:24:25.53\00:24:27.16
you're not going
to have these diseases
00:24:27.20\00:24:29.26
come upon you that make you die.
00:24:29.30\00:24:30.63
Yvonne: Right...
Ivor: Bitter waters...
00:24:30.67\00:24:32.83
He's relating it to not
keeping His commandments.
00:24:32.90\00:24:36.94
Sweet waters... the
testimony of Jesus Christ
00:24:36.97\00:24:41.01
and the commandments of God.
00:24:41.04\00:24:43.04
So what you have here is that...
00:24:43.11\00:24:45.48
this... under this trumpet,
00:24:45.51\00:24:47.85
you have this
poisoning of the gospel,
00:24:47.88\00:24:50.42
this removing of Christ from
the religion of Christianity
00:24:50.45\00:24:53.86
and this compromising
of the commandments of God
00:24:53.92\00:24:56.69
which is exactly what happened
in the time of Constantine.
00:24:56.73\00:24:59.89
James: Okay, I want to
give us a few Bible verses
00:24:59.93\00:25:03.77
just to back up
everything we've said
00:25:03.80\00:25:05.77
because we've opened
up the verse, powerfully,
00:25:05.80\00:25:09.04
it's very clear to me
that... that this is the...
00:25:09.07\00:25:12.24
the consequence of
the fall of Pagan Rome,
00:25:12.27\00:25:14.74
compromise taking
place, moving in now...
00:25:14.78\00:25:16.81
Satan's moving into the church,
00:25:16.85\00:25:18.28
we've identified the symbols,
00:25:18.31\00:25:19.71
let's just look at
a few Bible verses,
00:25:19.75\00:25:21.92
in the few
minutes we have remaining,
00:25:21.95\00:25:24.09
first of all, Luke 10:18 says,
00:25:24.12\00:25:25.89
"I beheld Satan as
lightning falling from heaven"
00:25:25.95\00:25:30.26
so the lamp... from
heaven... the star from heaven
00:25:30.29\00:25:33.33
burning as it were a
lamp... the star from heaven
00:25:33.36\00:25:36.36
so this is backing up the fact
00:25:36.40\00:25:38.77
that Satan is the
star coming from heaven,
00:25:38.80\00:25:40.77
in Revelation 12:4 his tail drew
the part of the stars of heaven,
00:25:40.80\00:25:44.34
there's the
angel... symbolizes the stars
00:25:44.37\00:25:47.24
and then Lucifer is
described in Isaiah 14:12
00:25:47.28\00:25:49.81
"How have you fallen from
heaven, O star of the morning!
00:25:49.84\00:25:52.91
son of the dawn... you
have been cut down to the earth,
00:25:52.95\00:25:55.98
you have weakened the nations. "
00:25:56.02\00:25:57.72
So these are three Bible verses
00:25:57.75\00:25:59.39
that are really
going to nail it for us
00:25:59.42\00:26:01.06
as far as identifying the star
that has fallen from heaven,
00:26:01.09\00:26:03.79
the next one I
want us to look at
00:26:03.83\00:26:06.03
is Psalm
119:105... gave the reference,
00:26:06.09\00:26:09.06
"Thy Word is a lamp unto my
feet and a light unto my path"
00:26:09.13\00:26:11.77
and we know from Christ's
experience in the wilderness,
00:26:11.80\00:26:14.40
Satan uses the Bible to
try to compromise faith,
00:26:14.47\00:26:16.94
he's not just against the Bible,
00:26:17.01\00:26:19.24
he's actually
taking the Bible up
00:26:19.27\00:26:21.44
he's trying to use it
to compromise the faith.
00:26:21.48\00:26:22.91
And notice this, this
is in Isaiah 62 verse 1,
00:26:22.94\00:26:25.98
it's talking about how salvation
goes forth as a lamp that burns.
00:26:26.01\00:26:29.95
So, counterfeit salvation...
00:26:29.98\00:26:32.29
Isaiah 62:1, "Thy righteousness
00:26:32.32\00:26:35.62
and thy salvation goes
forth as a lamp that burns. "
00:26:35.69\00:26:38.53
So he is trying to
bring another salvation...
00:26:38.56\00:26:40.73
a different salvation...
compromise the salvation...
00:26:40.76\00:26:43.30
and then it says,
00:26:43.33\00:26:44.67
"He falls upon and
takes hold of the rivers
00:26:44.70\00:26:47.84
and the fountains of waters"
00:26:47.87\00:26:49.27
now, look at this
verse, this is Proverbs 21:1...
00:26:49.30\00:26:52.11
"The king's heart is
in the hand of the LORD,
00:26:52.14\00:26:54.94
as the rivers of water... "
00:26:54.98\00:26:56.58
so rivers of water
represent kings' hearts,
00:26:56.61\00:26:59.55
He comes upon
the hearts of kings,
00:26:59.58\00:27:01.52
of course, the
woman sits on many waters
00:27:01.55\00:27:03.65
and then there is
another verse in Proverbs 25:26,
00:27:03.69\00:27:06.99
"A righteous man
falling down before the wicked
00:27:07.02\00:27:09.82
is as a troubled fountain,
and a corrupt spring. "
00:27:09.86\00:27:12.73
The compromise...
falling down before the wicked,
00:27:12.79\00:27:15.36
a troubled
fountain... a corrupt spring...
00:27:15.40\00:27:17.07
so, all the symbolism is
here and there's... there's...
00:27:17.13\00:27:19.83
Ivor: Let's add there, Amos 8,
00:27:19.87\00:27:21.84
where Christ
talks about a famine,
00:27:21.87\00:27:23.24
not of bread nor of water but
of hearing the Word of the Lord,
00:27:23.27\00:27:27.24
water... again symbolizing the
hearing of the Word of the Lord
00:27:27.28\00:27:31.55
we could take that back to the
third church or the third seal
00:27:31.58\00:27:35.78
where you have a
famine in the land...
00:27:35.82\00:27:39.72
you see this connection
again that this is talking about
00:27:39.75\00:27:42.49
the taking away of
that which was truth.
00:27:42.52\00:27:45.43
James: Okay, we're out
of time and we haven't...
00:27:45.49\00:27:47.66
there's more...
there's still more
00:27:47.70\00:27:49.40
so we're not going
to do the next one yet,
00:27:49.43\00:27:50.77
we'll transition into it
as we finish up right here
00:27:50.80\00:27:54.00
because I want to talk a
bit more about this wormwood...
00:27:54.04\00:27:55.44
and understand what that means.
00:27:55.47\00:27:56.81
Ivor: Yes...
yes... Yvonne: Great...
00:27:56.84\00:27:58.17
James: We'll do
that when we come back.
00:27:58.21\00:27:59.54
Yvonne: Yeah.
00:27:59.57\00:28:00.91