Now the Book of Revelation
is challenging in and of itself
00:00:30.76\00:00:34.26
but we are in the probably
00:00:34.30\00:00:36.77
most challenging part
of the Book of Revelation.
00:00:36.80\00:00:39.30
The symbols and signs
in the entire book are...
00:00:39.33\00:00:41.87
well...
00:00:41.90\00:00:43.30
most people want to do a U turn
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when they get to
the Book of Revelation
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but now we're in
the seven trumpets
00:00:47.44\00:00:49.68
and specifically, Ivor,
00:00:49.71\00:00:51.05
we are in these
verses in the seven trumpets
00:00:51.08\00:00:52.41
that to me are
probably the most difficult
00:00:52.45\00:00:56.15
to decipher and understand
and that's why I'm so thankful
00:00:56.18\00:00:59.95
that we have history already,
00:00:59.99\00:01:03.09
that we've
established certain principles
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as we've studied the
churches and the seals
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that will help us
with the trumpets.
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Now we've already looked at
00:01:10.13\00:01:11.53
the idea of these
four prophetic cycles,
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so we've seen the churches
and we've seen the seals
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beginning in Christ's
day... in the Apostolic Age,
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and then moving us through
the history, prophetic history
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but world history
moving us all the way through
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from Christ's day... all the way
through to the very end of time
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and the new
heavens and the new earth.
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In the churches we saw this,
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the church of Ephesus
began in the Apostolic Age...
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and then, by the
time we get to Laodicea
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we've come all
the way to our time.
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Each one of the churches has
promises that are given to those
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who are going to be in the
New Heavens and the New Earth.
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"I'll make you a
pillar in my temple... "
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"I'll give you a new name... "
"You'll sit on thrones with me"
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all of that is
"New Earth" language
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so... then when
we get to the seals
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we do the same
thing all over again.
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The seals begin with
this picture in heaven
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and in the throne room
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you see the Lamb...
as it had been slain
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and then the Spirit
that's around the throne
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is now sent into all the earth,
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so you have the Holy
Spirit being sent out,
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just like... with the
churches, "He that has an ear,
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let him hear what the
Spirit says to the churches"
00:02:08.52\00:02:10.13
so, the implication
of the churches is...
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the Spirit
is... it's poured out,
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the clear symbolism of the seals
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is that the Spirit has
been sent out to all the earth
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and then you have this history,
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you have the white horse
and you have the red horse
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and you have the black horse
and you have the pale horse,
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taking us all the way down until
John sees this great multitude
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around the throne
that no man could number
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and they are praising
God and they're being led by
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rivers of waters and
they don't cry anymore
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and the sun doesn't
light on them anymore
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and that's the new
heaven and the new earth
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and then we get
to the seven trumpets
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and the seven
trumpets... we know already,
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we've established this...
begins in the Apostolic Age
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how do we know that?
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Because the angel that is
pictured in Revelation chapter 8
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verses 3, 4 and 5,
is standing by the altar
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and then he's pictured as
taking something from the altar
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that symbolizes incense
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and I think it's
Christ's righteousness
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and he's taking
to the golden altar.
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Well, the golden altar is
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in the Holy Place of
the Heavenly Sanctuary
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and the incense...
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if it represents
Christ's righteousness
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has to be coming from the cross,
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that's where Christ died for us,
that's where His righteousness
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His life was laid out for us
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so He takes what He's
done at the cross of Calvary
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and He takes it to
the Heavenly Sanctuary...
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to the Holy Place... that
happened at His ascension.
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Yvonne: Hmmm...
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James: I mean we know... as
believers, we know right now
00:03:28.47\00:03:30.74
that Christ is actually
in the very final aspect...
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the final stages of His
work in the Heavenly Sanctuary.
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Yvonne: Does the
incense not represent prayers?
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I thought it
represented prayers.
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James: It does in
Revelation chapter 5
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because it says right there
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that it presents the
prayers of the saints
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but in Revelation 8
the incense is mingled
00:03:47.59\00:03:50.19
with the prayers of the saints
so that wouldn't make sense.
00:03:50.23\00:03:53.23
Ivor: We find... as
the incense is rising
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it symbolizes the fact
the prayers of the saints
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are ascending with the
righteousness of Christ
00:03:58.73\00:04:01.27
without which our
prayers would be...
00:04:01.30\00:04:04.57
Jason: So Christ is
interceding on our behalf.
00:04:04.61\00:04:06.57
Ivor: Yeah... yes.
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James: Yes, exactly and
that's Ephesians 5 verse 2,
00:04:07.98\00:04:09.31
it talks there about how Christ
gave Himself as a sacrifice...
00:04:09.34\00:04:13.15
a sweet smelling
savor... Ephesians 5:2 says
00:04:13.18\00:04:16.35
so the incense mingles with...
00:04:16.38\00:04:17.75
and so we have the
beginning of Christ's work
00:04:17.79\00:04:20.66
in the Sanctuary... now
this is really powerful because
00:04:20.72\00:04:23.49
the first prophetic
cycle of the churches
00:04:23.53\00:04:26.66
reveals Christ with us,
incarnate, He's the Son of man
00:04:26.70\00:04:29.40
He's actually there on
the isle of Patmos with John
00:04:29.43\00:04:32.13
so it's the
incarnation, if you will...
00:04:32.17\00:04:34.10
it's an enactment
of the incarnation.
00:04:34.14\00:04:36.74
The second
prophetic cycle of the seals,
00:04:36.77\00:04:39.31
points to Christ crucified,
00:04:39.34\00:04:41.38
the lamb slain in
the middle of the throne
00:04:41.44\00:04:43.61
and the third
prophetic cycle of the trumpets,
00:04:43.65\00:04:46.45
points to Christ's mediation,
00:04:46.51\00:04:48.62
He's interceding
with His righteousness...
00:04:48.65\00:04:51.79
with His incense...
mingling it with our prayers
00:04:51.82\00:04:54.02
and then, as a result of that,
00:04:54.06\00:04:56.42
He gives us, again, the
gift of His Holy Spirit.
00:04:56.46\00:04:59.09
The fire from the altar
that's cast into the earth,
00:04:59.13\00:05:02.50
that's the same thing
we see in the Book of Acts,
00:05:02.53\00:05:05.90
they were praying...
the prayers were going up
00:05:05.93\00:05:09.30
mingling with
Christ's righteousness
00:05:09.34\00:05:11.24
and then... a
mighty rushing wind
00:05:11.27\00:05:13.11
and cloven tongues of
fire rests on each one of them.
00:05:13.17\00:05:15.58
It's... Revelation 8
00:05:15.61\00:05:17.78
is an exact
reenactment in symbolic language
00:05:17.81\00:05:21.32
of the Apostolic outpouring
of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
00:05:21.35\00:05:25.09
Ivor: I think it's important...
well, this chapter is so heavy
00:05:25.12\00:05:28.79
that this is the one
that we really need to pray
00:05:28.82\00:05:31.49
on this program... before
we get into the seven seals
00:05:31.53\00:05:36.67
and I'm going to
share something about how...
00:05:36.70\00:05:39.43
a little recap if you
will about how we can know
00:05:39.47\00:05:41.74
what these trumpets are
going to be talking about
00:05:41.77\00:05:44.01
so, let's pray,
"Heavenly Father,
00:05:44.04\00:05:47.54
bless us as we open your
Word and as we get to this
00:05:47.58\00:05:51.08
particularly difficult
portion of Scripture...
00:05:51.11\00:05:53.31
we pray that you would
give us wisdom and guidance.
00:05:53.35\00:05:55.82
In Jesus' name
we ask it. Amen. "
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All: "Amen. "
00:05:57.22\00:05:58.55
Ivor: So, you'll
remember that one of the things
00:05:58.59\00:06:02.42
we've been laying out
in our previous programs is
00:06:02.46\00:06:05.99
that the Book of Revelation
is written on patterns
00:06:06.03\00:06:09.23
and specifically
the Sanctuary Pattern
00:06:09.26\00:06:13.13
and we saw that
when we understand
00:06:13.17\00:06:16.94
what's happening
with the seven churches,
00:06:16.97\00:06:18.44
with the seven seals,
with the seven trumpets,
00:06:18.47\00:06:20.38
the opening
visions of each of these
00:06:20.44\00:06:22.54
brings us into the Holy Place,
00:06:22.58\00:06:25.15
seven churches...
seven-branched candlestick,
00:06:25.18\00:06:28.08
the seven seals...
the Table of Shewbread
00:06:28.12\00:06:30.99
and the seven
trumpets... the Altar of Incense
00:06:31.02\00:06:33.82
and the reason
that that's crucial...
00:06:33.86\00:06:36.22
for us to understand is because
remember in the Old Testament
00:06:36.26\00:06:39.66
the High Priest... as
He ministered at one...
00:06:39.69\00:06:42.70
he was to minister at the other,
00:06:42.73\00:06:44.53
meaning that there was
a simultaneous ministry.
00:06:44.57\00:06:47.60
When we understand that
it's a simultaneous ministry,
00:06:47.64\00:06:50.27
we understand that...
00:06:50.31\00:06:51.64
whatever period of time
the seven churches covered,
00:06:51.67\00:06:55.18
will be the same period of
time covered by the seven seals,
00:06:55.21\00:06:59.45
will be the same period of time
covered by the seven trumpets,
00:06:59.48\00:07:03.69
so that again
gives us a framework
00:07:03.75\00:07:06.62
because you know
there are a lot of people
00:07:06.65\00:07:08.92
that are talking
about the seven trumpets
00:07:08.96\00:07:11.19
and... "Oh, the seven
trumpets mean this... "
00:07:11.23\00:07:13.40
because again... it's
the most difficult portion
00:07:13.43\00:07:15.26
of the Book of Revelation.
00:07:15.33\00:07:16.67
So, there are all kinds
of thoughts about that...
00:07:16.70\00:07:20.34
about what the
seven trumpets reveal
00:07:20.37\00:07:21.84
but if you're not looking at it
00:07:21.90\00:07:24.07
within the context
of the Sanctuary...
00:07:24.11\00:07:25.84
you run the very real risk
of interpreting it incorrectly,
00:07:25.87\00:07:32.81
so... so these seven churches,
seven seals... seven trumpets...
00:07:32.85\00:07:37.19
the nice thing about...
as we go through this...
00:07:37.22\00:07:39.32
through the... when we
went through the seven churches
00:07:39.35\00:07:41.99
and saw the history...
well, okay, we got that...
00:07:42.02\00:07:44.39
when we started
going to the seven seals,
00:07:44.43\00:07:46.29
we could say, "Okay,
are we right on this?
00:07:46.33\00:07:48.10
Well, let's double check,
let's go back to the churches. "
00:07:48.13\00:07:50.87
Now with the trumpets...
00:07:50.90\00:07:52.60
we can double
check... we can triple check...
00:07:52.63\00:07:55.70
James: We can triple check...
I like that we can triple check.
00:07:55.77\00:07:58.84
Ivor: So, we
know... what are the odds...
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if these all match
up generally speaking...
00:08:03.41\00:08:07.85
then we know that...
yeah, that can't be coincidence.
00:08:07.88\00:08:11.49
You see what I'm saying.
00:08:11.52\00:08:13.02
Yvonne: Right, right, right.
00:08:13.05\00:08:14.46
Ivor: And so, we talked about...
00:08:14.49\00:08:16.12
I think we talked
about the fact that
00:08:16.16\00:08:18.19
the seven churches
began to go forth...
00:08:18.23\00:08:20.16
the first church began
on the day of Pentecost,
00:08:20.20\00:08:22.13
okay, the rider
on the white horse...
00:08:22.16\00:08:25.20
the preaching of the
gospel, the day of Pentecost...
00:08:25.23\00:08:28.20
Peter gets up and
preaches this powerful sermon
00:08:28.24\00:08:30.64
where 3,000 are
converted in a day...
00:08:30.67\00:08:32.57
that's the rider
on the white horse,
00:08:32.61\00:08:36.48
so the first
trumpet or the trumpets...
00:08:36.51\00:08:40.38
as you've just pointed
out with the fire falling
00:08:40.42\00:08:43.65
in answer to the
prayers of the saints
00:08:43.69\00:08:45.72
mingled with the
righteousness of Christ...
00:08:45.75\00:08:47.39
the day of Pentecost...
00:08:47.42\00:08:48.96
what we're seeing
here is that these visions
00:08:48.99\00:08:51.86
occur... open up... begin...
00:08:51.89\00:08:54.86
on the day of Pentecost
when the Holy Spirit falls.
00:08:54.90\00:08:58.20
So we can parallel
00:08:58.23\00:09:00.30
these churches, seals,
trumpets all the way down...
00:09:00.34\00:09:03.67
knowing...
whatever we're looking for
00:09:03.71\00:09:05.34
it's got to be in the general
00:09:05.37\00:09:07.31
vicinity of first church,
second church, third church
00:09:07.34\00:09:11.08
all the way down
to seventh church.
00:09:11.11\00:09:12.71
Jason: I need a quick refresher
on the white horse, red horse,
00:09:12.78\00:09:15.78
pale horse, black horse,
what do they symbolize like...?
00:09:15.82\00:09:19.29
What are... what are they?
00:09:19.32\00:09:20.66
Ivor: Well, so
we... look... okay,
00:09:20.69\00:09:23.19
first four churches are Ephesus,
Smyrna, Pergamos and Thyatira,
00:09:23.22\00:09:29.83
so, remember the first church
00:09:29.86\00:09:31.83
was the church
that started out pure...
00:09:31.87\00:09:33.67
but lost their first love,
00:09:33.74\00:09:35.50
the second church was
a church of persecution
00:09:35.54\00:09:38.41
the third church was
a church of compromise
00:09:38.44\00:09:41.24
and the fourth church we see
00:09:41.28\00:09:43.35
is where the Papal
church becomes dominant
00:09:43.38\00:09:47.32
representing the dark
ages so, just knowing that,
00:09:47.35\00:09:51.22
you already have the answer
to the first four horses, right?
00:09:51.25\00:09:54.29
Because the white horse...
00:09:54.32\00:09:55.66
the gospel... going
forth in great power,
00:09:55.69\00:09:58.36
the red horse... persecution...
00:09:58.39\00:10:00.10
"Oh, hey, that
matches the first church...
00:10:00.13\00:10:02.26
matches the second church...
00:10:02.33\00:10:04.17
the rider on the black horse
00:10:04.20\00:10:06.00
with a pair of
scales in his hands...
00:10:06.03\00:10:09.00
compromise...
00:10:09.04\00:10:10.37
"Oh, wow, that's
exactly what happened
00:10:10.41\00:10:12.64
in the third church period"
00:10:12.67\00:10:14.01
and then the fourth church...
the rider on the pale horse...
00:10:14.04\00:10:16.21
we see actually
brings us into dark ages
00:10:16.24\00:10:19.51
and even down to
the investigative...
00:10:19.55\00:10:22.75
James: The rise of Atheism...
00:10:22.78\00:10:24.32
Ivor: Yeah, the
rise of Atheism...
00:10:24.35\00:10:25.69
that's right, the
rise of Atheism...
00:10:25.72\00:10:27.06
James: The judgment
comes in the fifth...
00:10:27.09\00:10:28.42
and the fifth
seal also in parallel.
00:10:28.46\00:10:29.86
Ivor: So, again we're able to
check these... our conclusions
00:10:29.89\00:10:34.93
with what we've already laid...
00:10:34.96\00:10:36.70
what we've established
in the seven churches.
00:10:36.73\00:10:38.93
So when you're... when
you're studying on your own
00:10:38.97\00:10:41.30
and you're like,
"Wait a minute...
00:10:41.37\00:10:43.47
what is the
second trumpet again?"
00:10:43.51\00:10:45.57
What would you want to do?
00:10:45.61\00:10:47.08
You want to go back
to the churches and say,
00:10:47.11\00:10:50.31
"Okay, okay,
what's the second church?"
00:10:50.35\00:10:52.38
"What's the second horse?"
00:10:52.41\00:10:54.78
Ivor: Exactly...
and that becomes a way
00:10:54.82\00:10:57.19
where you can...
anywhere you fall...
00:10:57.22\00:10:59.35
sixth church... okay...
let me go to the sixth seal...
00:10:59.39\00:11:02.09
or let me go to the
sixth trumpet and you can look
00:11:02.12\00:11:04.73
and actually see... get a better
idea of what you're looking for.
00:11:04.76\00:11:08.66
James: And here's
an important point
00:11:08.70\00:11:10.03
just to add and build
on what Ivor's saying...
00:11:10.07\00:11:12.00
so, while it
repeats that history...
00:11:12.03\00:11:15.04
it will also add some details...
00:11:15.07\00:11:17.41
there may be some
things in the trumpets
00:11:17.44\00:11:19.07
that we didn't
find in the seals,
00:11:19.11\00:11:20.44
there may be some
things in the seals
00:11:20.48\00:11:21.81
that we didn't
find in the churches
00:11:21.84\00:11:23.18
about that same period of time.
00:11:23.21\00:11:24.55
Yvonne: The whole
repeat and enlarge...
00:11:24.58\00:11:25.91
James: Yes and
enlarging... and we're not...
00:11:25.95\00:11:28.05
we're not dogmatic about this...
there's some flexibility here
00:11:28.08\00:11:31.25
in other words...
there's some wiggle room...
00:11:31.29\00:11:32.99
God isn't saying,
"Well, this trumpet...
00:11:33.02\00:11:34.36
started on this day and this day
00:11:34.39\00:11:36.02
and ends on this
day and this day"
00:11:36.06\00:11:37.59
there's some overlap
that takes place there
00:11:37.63\00:11:39.49
so we need to be
flexible and then there is...
00:11:39.53\00:11:42.03
there's more meaning
to what we're looking at
00:11:42.06\00:11:44.53
than may be that
first meets our eyes,
00:11:44.57\00:11:47.00
God is able to
put so much meaning
00:11:47.04\00:11:48.64
in this... in the Scripture...
00:11:48.67\00:11:50.21
and I think we've all seen
that as we go through this,
00:11:50.24\00:11:52.01
we go back to the
Old Testament saying,
00:11:52.04\00:11:53.81
"Whoa, the Old
Testament is coming alive... "
00:11:53.84\00:11:56.98
as we use it as a way
of magnifying the symbols
00:11:57.01\00:11:59.71
in the Book of
Revelation, that really help us
00:11:59.75\00:12:02.38
so we have to understand the
stories in the Old Testament.
00:12:02.42\00:12:05.22
Those stories lay a
groundwork for interpreting...
00:12:05.25\00:12:07.72
like, for example, in
the church of Thyatira,
00:12:07.76\00:12:10.99
we hear about the
person of Jezebel...
00:12:11.03\00:12:13.13
well, Jezebel...
that's from the Old Testament
00:12:13.16\00:12:15.83
so, we've got to go
back to the Old Testament
00:12:15.86\00:12:18.43
and read and
understand the story of Jezebel
00:12:18.47\00:12:20.87
to understand what she's
doing in the church of Thyatira
00:12:20.90\00:12:24.01
and we find out that Jezebel
was someone who compromised
00:12:24.04\00:12:27.44
the truth of God's Word...
and led the nation of Israel
00:12:27.48\00:12:30.48
through the influence
she had on her husband, Ahab,
00:12:30.51\00:12:33.52
into apostasy and
rebellion against God
00:12:33.55\00:12:36.18
and then sought to
kill God's prophets
00:12:36.22\00:12:38.02
and they had to hide from her
00:12:38.05\00:12:39.69
whoa... that is
bringing us to the Dark Ages
00:12:39.75\00:12:43.73
and the same
compromise that took place
00:12:43.76\00:12:45.59
and the same influence...
00:12:45.63\00:12:46.96
the false prophets and the
religious leaders have on kings
00:12:47.00\00:12:49.73
and the same persecution that
came against God's people...
00:12:49.76\00:12:53.07
they had to hide in caves...
so we see that story opening up
00:12:53.13\00:12:56.40
the symbolism of what's
taking place here in Thyatira.
00:12:56.44\00:12:58.94
Ivor: James, let me add
something here real quick...
00:12:58.97\00:13:01.44
just to emphasize on
the point you just made,
00:13:01.48\00:13:03.45
listen to the fourth trumpet,
00:13:03.48\00:13:06.05
we're not going to
talk about what it is yet
00:13:06.11\00:13:07.68
but remember the
terms he just used...
00:13:07.75\00:13:09.28
and he didn't... he
wasn't... we didn't plan this...
00:13:09.32\00:13:12.25
so he just said,
"This is a period
00:13:12.29\00:13:14.26
where there is... the Dark Ages
00:13:14.29\00:13:16.19
and he's led Israel
into a period of darkness"
00:13:16.22\00:13:18.86
now listen to
the fourth trumpet,
00:13:18.89\00:13:20.23
"The fourth angel sounded,
00:13:20.26\00:13:22.00
and the third part
of the sun was smitten,
00:13:22.03\00:13:24.33
and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars;
00:13:24.37\00:13:27.40
so as the third part
of them was darkened,
00:13:27.44\00:13:30.64
and the day shone not
for a third part of it,
00:13:30.67\00:13:33.84
and the night likewise. "
00:13:33.88\00:13:35.58
I don't know what the
fourth trumpet is yet,
00:13:35.61\00:13:38.25
right, but man!
whatever it is wow, it's dark...
00:13:38.31\00:13:41.58
and it seems to parallel
what we just talked about
00:13:41.62\00:13:44.89
in the fourth church which we
know has to deal with Dark Ages
00:13:44.95\00:13:49.42
so, again, without even knowing
yet what the fourth trumpet is,
00:13:49.46\00:13:53.83
we now have a clue that
we're not looking for something
00:13:53.86\00:13:56.70
that's going to
happen in the future,
00:13:56.77\00:13:59.00
we're looking for something
that must generally match
00:13:59.03\00:14:02.94
the events under
the fourth church.
00:14:02.97\00:14:06.51
Does that make sense?
00:14:06.57\00:14:07.91
Yvonne: Yeah... yes,
yes, yes, it's good...
00:14:07.94\00:14:09.71
the four prophetic cycles
are the churches, the seals,
00:14:09.74\00:14:13.72
the trumpets and
what was the fourth one?
00:14:13.75\00:14:15.88
James: We called it the
woman, the dragon and the beast
00:14:15.92\00:14:19.45
but I recently... as
I've done more study on this,
00:14:19.49\00:14:22.42
I want to call it
the seven vials...
00:14:22.46\00:14:25.09
the seven
churches, the seven seals,
00:14:25.13\00:14:27.66
the seven trumpets
and the seven vials...
00:14:27.70\00:14:29.23
and here's why... it
begins in Revelation chapter 12
00:14:29.26\00:14:32.90
with the recap... Revelation
12, 13 and 14 are a recap
00:14:32.93\00:14:36.50
of the gospel, the
conflict, the compromise...
00:14:36.54\00:14:39.71
everything that's
happened but the main gist...
00:14:39.74\00:14:42.81
of the last
cycle... is judgment.
00:14:42.84\00:14:44.48
James: 15, 16, 17, 18,
19, 20, it's all judgment,
00:14:44.51\00:14:48.32
God is wrapping it up
and it's so overwhelmingly
00:14:48.35\00:14:52.09
powerful... in the way that God
is dealing with the sin problem
00:14:52.12\00:14:56.42
that he has to
recap in 12 through 14,
00:14:56.46\00:14:58.99
He has to recap the
apostasy... and His last effort
00:14:59.03\00:15:01.96
the everlasting gospel...
the three angels' messages
00:15:02.00\00:15:04.90
to take the undiluted
truth to all the world,
00:15:04.93\00:15:07.00
it has to recap
that... so everyone knows
00:15:07.04\00:15:09.04
why he's allowing this
judgment to finally come
00:15:09.07\00:15:11.34
so the seven vials...
00:15:11.37\00:15:12.71
Ivor: Yeah, let me add to that,
00:15:12.74\00:15:14.18
again, we're
talking about patterns
00:15:14.21\00:15:15.74
and notice where
the seven vials occur...
00:15:15.78\00:15:18.81
the vials and the
emphasis of recap...
00:15:18.85\00:15:21.88
begins in Revelation chapter 12
00:15:21.92\00:15:23.75
Revelation chapter
11 verses 17 onward...
00:15:23.79\00:15:28.26
introduces us for the first
time to the Most Holy Place
00:15:28.32\00:15:32.19
now, remember, seven
churches, seals, trumpets,
00:15:32.23\00:15:36.10
they all unfold where?
In the Holy Place... right,
00:15:36.16\00:15:40.00
in the Sanctuary
there were two ministrations
00:15:40.04\00:15:44.74
the ministration
in the Holy Place
00:15:44.77\00:15:46.27
and then the ministration
of the Most Holy Place
00:15:46.31\00:15:48.58
was the Day of Atonement,
00:15:48.61\00:15:50.51
at the end of the
Day of Atonement...
00:15:50.55\00:15:52.75
those who had not made
themselves right with God
00:15:52.78\00:15:54.88
were cut off...
00:15:54.92\00:15:56.32
Ivor: So, it's significant
that we find the seven vials
00:15:56.35\00:16:01.42
unfolding within the
context of the Most Holy Place.
00:16:01.46\00:16:06.49
The whole book of Revelation
00:16:06.53\00:16:08.80
is based on the
pattern of the Sanctuary.
00:16:08.83\00:16:11.73
Yvonne: Wow!
00:16:11.77\00:16:13.10
Ivor: The first three
cycles... Holy Place...
00:16:13.13\00:16:16.50
the last cycle...
the events that occur...
00:16:16.54\00:16:19.71
the Most Holy
Place and afterward...
00:16:19.74\00:16:22.34
so when we can step back
from the Book of Revelation
00:16:22.38\00:16:25.41
and see it... wow! there
it is... the two halves...
00:16:25.45\00:16:28.38
we can see this one whole...
00:16:28.42\00:16:30.09
we're stepping back
and looking at the forest
00:16:30.12\00:16:31.45
because, like I said, a lot
of people jump into the trees
00:16:31.49\00:16:34.26
and don't understand
the context of the forest
00:16:34.29\00:16:37.09
when we can steps
back and see the forest,
00:16:37.13\00:16:39.33
"Ah, I get this now, now
when I go into the trees,
00:16:39.36\00:16:42.53
I know where I am within
the context of the forest,
00:16:42.56\00:16:45.73
I'm not lost... " like, okay,
00:16:45.77\00:16:47.57
"This must mean this
and this must mean that... "
00:16:47.64\00:16:49.40
Yvonne: Yeah... yeah...
00:16:49.44\00:16:50.77
James: Good, so
let's... let's go right now
00:16:50.81\00:16:53.34
into Revelation
chapter 8, can we do that?
00:16:53.38\00:16:55.11
You guys feel pretty
confident doing that?
00:16:55.14\00:16:56.64
Yvonne: Yeah... yeah...
00:16:56.68\00:16:58.05
James: So, we've
already... again, in recap...
00:16:58.08\00:16:59.98
we've already begun this...
this third prophetic cycle,
00:17:00.02\00:17:03.62
so we've already
started the seven trumpets...
00:17:03.65\00:17:05.72
and what we've done basically...
00:17:05.75\00:17:07.09
is we've seen that the
seven trumpets that are given,
00:17:07.12\00:17:09.86
that John sees...
given to these seven angels
00:17:09.89\00:17:11.53
are put on hold
for just a few verses
00:17:11.56\00:17:13.33
and they're put on hold
because you have this picture
00:17:13.40\00:17:16.26
that we've already discussed
00:17:16.30\00:17:17.63
of this angel getting
incense from the altar,
00:17:17.67\00:17:20.27
the cross, the
righteousness of Christ,
00:17:20.30\00:17:22.17
His sacrifice... Ephesians
5:2 and he takes that sacrifice
00:17:22.20\00:17:26.44
and he mingles it with
the prayers of the saints
00:17:26.47\00:17:29.38
in the Holy Place or
before the golden throne,
00:17:29.41\00:17:32.35
okay, so you've got this
picture of Christ interceding
00:17:32.38\00:17:35.38
and that has to come before
the trumpets start to blow.
00:17:35.42\00:17:37.85
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:17:37.89\00:17:39.32
James: Because indeed
Jesus said to His disciples,
00:17:39.35\00:17:41.59
"I'll be leaving...
I'm going to heaven...
00:17:41.62\00:17:43.22
and I'm going to come
back... " excuse me...
00:17:43.26\00:17:44.83
"I'm going to
send my Spirit back
00:17:44.86\00:17:46.19
so when I go... the
Spirit's going to come"
00:17:46.23\00:17:48.10
that's what we see
taking place in those verses
00:17:48.13\00:17:50.00
"And when He comes,
you're going to be filled...
00:17:50.03\00:17:51.80
and I want you to preach
the gospel to Jerusalem first
00:17:51.83\00:17:54.34
then to Samaria and then to the
uttermost parts of the world"
00:17:54.37\00:17:58.14
because when that
gospel is preached...
00:17:58.17\00:18:00.74
it prepares the
world to make a decision
00:18:00.78\00:18:03.31
for or against God and
then judgment can come.
00:18:03.35\00:18:05.85
The trumpets are by and
large judgments that are coming
00:18:05.88\00:18:08.62
and so what happens is first of
all... Jesus says in Matthew 24
00:18:08.68\00:18:12.35
the gospel is
going to be preached
00:18:12.39\00:18:13.72
and then the first
thing that's going to happen
00:18:13.76\00:18:15.59
within this generation...
00:18:15.62\00:18:16.96
and we're talking
about Biblically speaking,
00:18:16.99\00:18:19.26
about 40 years is that this
temple is going to be destroyed
00:18:19.29\00:18:22.60
not one stone is going
to be left upon another
00:18:22.63\00:18:25.10
that will not be thrown down,
00:18:25.13\00:18:26.47
so Revelation 8 is basically
a short, symbolic analysis
00:18:26.50\00:18:30.84
of what Jesus says in Matthew
24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21,
00:18:30.87\00:18:34.44
He's basically saying,
"First the gospel gets preached
00:18:34.48\00:18:37.98
as this Holy Spirit
is poured out upon you,
00:18:38.01\00:18:40.02
to all these
nations... first to Jerusalem
00:18:40.05\00:18:41.92
and then... after
the gospel is preached...
00:18:41.95\00:18:43.79
boom... the trumpet
blows, Jerusalem comes down... "
00:18:43.82\00:18:46.09
so the first angel that sounds
is... in our previous program...
00:18:46.12\00:18:51.49
is the fall of
Jerusalem in A.D. 70...
00:18:51.56\00:18:54.53
we have the blood and
hail mingled with fire
00:18:54.56\00:18:57.40
and all of those
symbolize... they're not literal
00:18:57.43\00:19:00.04
because blood and hail mingled
with fire falling out of the sky
00:19:00.07\00:19:03.04
can't... we can't literally
see that as happening so
00:19:03.07\00:19:06.37
what it is... it's a symbol.
00:19:06.41\00:19:07.74
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:19:07.78\00:19:09.34
Ivor: Let me add here
that the reason that we know
00:19:09.38\00:19:11.08
that is because... on the
day of Pentecost when fire falls
00:19:11.11\00:19:14.25
Peter gets up to preach
00:19:14.28\00:19:15.65
and when he preaches he
quotes from Joel chapter 2.
00:19:15.68\00:19:18.52
James: Yes.
00:19:18.55\00:19:19.89
Ivor: Joel chapter 2 begins...
"Blow ye the trumpet in Zion"
00:19:19.92\00:19:22.46
it was a warning...
in that same chapter,
00:19:22.49\00:19:25.13
it talks about blood and fire,
blood and hail mingled with fire
00:19:25.16\00:19:29.33
it talks about all these
things and then Peter says,
00:19:29.36\00:19:31.83
"Hey, what Joel spoke...
you're seeing these things...
00:19:31.87\00:19:34.30
these things
are about to happen"
00:19:34.34\00:19:36.00
and you're looking
up in the sky like,
00:19:36.04\00:19:37.77
"blood and smoke... I
don't see any of that"
00:19:37.81\00:19:40.18
but guess what it was...
00:19:40.21\00:19:41.54
it was a
description of the destruction
00:19:41.58\00:19:43.48
that was coming upon Jerusalem
00:19:43.51\00:19:45.41
which is exactly
what Peter was warning,
00:19:45.45\00:19:47.22
that's why he
quoted Joel chapter 2
00:19:47.25\00:19:48.82
because in Joel 2... it
says, "A nation is coming... "
00:19:48.85\00:19:51.25
James: Hmmm...
hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:19:51.29\00:19:52.62
Ivor: "If you don't
repent... a nation is coming"
00:19:52.65\00:19:55.06
and guess what? 70
A.D. that nation came.
00:19:55.09\00:19:58.23
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:19:58.26\00:19:59.59
Ivor: And it was this...
the destruction of Jerusalem.
00:19:59.63\00:20:01.30
James: And we
saw trees burned up
00:20:01.33\00:20:02.86
and we saw
green grass burned up,
00:20:02.90\00:20:04.37
and in the Bible...
trees represent Leaders...
00:20:04.40\00:20:07.00
Nebuchadnezzar was
likened under a tree...
00:20:07.04\00:20:09.60
Jesus even likened
Himself to a tree...
00:20:09.64\00:20:11.77
and then
grass... represents people
00:20:11.81\00:20:13.64
specially people who are wicked,
00:20:13.68\00:20:15.41
"all flesh is grass"
"the wicked are like grass"
00:20:15.44\00:20:18.38
and so when it says
the trees and the grass...
00:20:18.41\00:20:20.92
it's talking about
the Leaders in Jerusalem
00:20:20.95\00:20:23.39
who had misled the people
and then all of the people
00:20:23.42\00:20:25.55
over a million
people lost their lives
00:20:25.59\00:20:28.49
in the destruction of Jerusalem
00:20:28.52\00:20:30.13
and the blood
ran down the steps,
00:20:30.16\00:20:32.06
the Romans even pled with them,
00:20:32.09\00:20:33.96
they didn't want to
destroy that temple,
00:20:34.00\00:20:35.56
they didn't want to destroy
Jerusalem but it was prophetic
00:20:35.60\00:20:37.77
and God had said it
was going to happen...
00:20:37.83\00:20:39.70
"not one stone will
be left upon another
00:20:39.73\00:20:41.40
that will not be thrown down. "
00:20:41.44\00:20:43.17
Ivor: Remember
that Jesus Himself
00:20:43.20\00:20:44.87
talked about the fig tree
and when He cursed the fig tree,
00:20:44.91\00:20:50.41
it was a symbol of the
fall of the Jewish nation,
00:20:50.45\00:20:54.22
so it is not insignificant,
this is not coincidence here
00:20:54.25\00:20:57.99
that the symbol
of the tree is used
00:20:58.02\00:21:01.06
to denote the fall of Israel.
00:21:01.09\00:21:02.99
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:21:03.02\00:21:04.36
James: Okay and so
then... we're looking at the...
00:21:04.39\00:21:06.70
the... that was the first
trumpet which we've covered...
00:21:06.73\00:21:09.10
we're just kind of
reviewing right now
00:21:09.16\00:21:10.50
and that was verse 7
00:21:10.53\00:21:12.20
and now we're
looking at the second angel
00:21:12.23\00:21:14.14
and we did cover this
already but I'm going to review
00:21:14.17\00:21:16.74
just a little bit of
this verse, verse 8...
00:21:16.77\00:21:18.81
"And the second angel sounds,
and as it were a great mountain
00:21:18.87\00:21:23.31
burning with fire
was cast into the sea:
00:21:23.35\00:21:26.48
and the third part of
the sea became blood... "
00:21:26.51\00:21:28.68
now, again, this is
either literal or it's symbolic,
00:21:28.72\00:21:31.92
we are going to
stay with symbolism,
00:21:31.95\00:21:35.59
we believe that they started
out symbolic in these trumpets
00:21:35.62\00:21:38.56
and it's going to
continue to be symbolic.
00:21:38.59\00:21:40.20
So when we're looking at a
mountain burning with fire,
00:21:40.23\00:21:42.86
and we've already identified
this so I'm just reviewing...
00:21:42.90\00:21:45.53
The mountain burning with
fire in the Old Testament...
00:21:45.57\00:21:48.64
the mountain was a symbol
of a kingdom or a government
00:21:48.70\00:21:52.74
in... I think it was...
Isaiah, no... Jeremiah 51...
00:21:52.77\00:21:56.81
the mountain was
a symbol of Babylon
00:21:56.85\00:21:58.71
and in Daniel chapter 2,
00:21:58.78\00:22:01.35
God's kingdom is
likened to a mountain
00:22:01.38\00:22:03.12
that fills the whole earth
00:22:03.15\00:22:04.49
but when a mountain
is burning with fire,
00:22:04.52\00:22:06.45
that means...
judgment is coming upon it
00:22:06.52\00:22:08.69
because fire symbolizes judgment
00:22:08.72\00:22:10.63
in the context
of this "burning up"
00:22:10.66\00:22:12.46
and so, here you have this
judgment coming upon a kingdom
00:22:12.49\00:22:16.60
and that kingdom is pagan Rome
00:22:16.63\00:22:19.83
and the reason why we
know it's pagan Rome is
00:22:19.87\00:22:21.70
because trumpets in the
Bible, we've already identified
00:22:21.74\00:22:24.81
as being blown for
God's people to go forward,
00:22:24.84\00:22:27.78
in Jericho they went
forward and Jericho came down,
00:22:27.81\00:22:30.78
God's people go forward
and God brings His enemies down
00:22:30.81\00:22:34.28
and in the early church,
there were two specific powers
00:22:34.32\00:22:37.72
that were the
enemies of God's people
00:22:37.75\00:22:39.29
and those powers were given an
opportunity to hear the gospel
00:22:39.32\00:22:42.52
and accept the gospel
or to avert the judgment,
00:22:42.56\00:22:45.83
and those who didn't
receive the gospel...
00:22:45.86\00:22:48.20
judgment was coming to them,
00:22:48.26\00:22:49.60
judgment first came to Jerusalem
00:22:49.63\00:22:50.97
and then it was
going to come to Pagan Rome
00:22:51.00\00:22:52.53
and that's why Jesus said,
00:22:52.57\00:22:54.04
remember that
verse where Jesus says,
00:22:54.07\00:22:55.77
"You see what I've
done to this fig tree,
00:22:55.80\00:22:57.74
I say unto you, you
say unto this mountain,
00:22:57.77\00:22:59.67
'be moved and cast into the
sea' and it shall be done. "
00:22:59.71\00:23:03.31
Incredible... how
Jesus... what He understood...
00:23:03.35\00:23:08.22
and the way He
presented truth to us,
00:23:08.25\00:23:10.59
in other words...
in that single verse,
00:23:10.65\00:23:12.92
Jesus is explaining
Jerusalem and Pagan Rome.
00:23:12.95\00:23:16.26
Ivor: Yeah. Yvonne: Wow!
00:23:16.29\00:23:17.63
James: Jerusalem is the fig
tree pagan Rome is the mountain.
00:23:17.66\00:23:18.99
Ivor: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:23:19.03\00:23:20.36
James: The fig tree is coming
down... it's going to be cursed
00:23:20.40\00:23:21.73
and the mountain is
going to be cast into the sea
00:23:21.76\00:23:23.33
and so, Jesus is using the
same language here in Revelation
00:23:23.37\00:23:26.84
when He's talking about
the trees being burned up
00:23:26.87\00:23:29.20
and then the mountain
being cast into the sea.
00:23:29.24\00:23:31.54
Here's what's interesting, Ivor,
00:23:31.57\00:23:33.71
and I know you
understand this too,
00:23:33.78\00:23:35.84
the sea represents peoples,
nations, multitudes and tongues,
00:23:35.88\00:23:39.71
when Rome fell... it wasn't
conquered by another nation,
00:23:39.75\00:23:43.42
like it had conquered Greece
00:23:43.45\00:23:45.35
and Greece had
conquered Medo-Persia
00:23:45.39\00:23:46.89
and Medo-Persia
had conquered Babylon,
00:23:46.96\00:23:48.42
it was swallowed up
00:23:48.46\00:23:49.79
by the peoples and
nations and tongues of Europe.
00:23:49.82\00:23:52.19
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:23:52.23\00:23:53.56
James: So, it was
cast into the sea.
00:23:53.60\00:23:54.93
Ivor: There was
in-fighting... James: Yes.
00:23:54.96\00:23:56.46
Ivor: And one of the things
we saw about the trumpets...
00:23:56.50\00:23:58.00
remember... three things
you saw about the trumpets,
00:23:58.03\00:23:59.53
Number One: In Numbers 10...
00:23:59.57\00:24:01.70
when the trumpets were
blown, God's people advanced.
00:24:01.74\00:24:03.17
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:24:03.20\00:24:04.54
Ivor: Number Two...
when the trumpets are blown,
00:24:04.57\00:24:05.91
God's enemies fall...
00:24:05.94\00:24:07.28
the enemies fall... so
that His people can advance
00:24:07.31\00:24:10.25
and Number Three...
the story of Gideon...
00:24:10.28\00:24:11.88
when the trumpet was blown...
00:24:11.91\00:24:13.25
they turned their
swords on one another,
00:24:13.28\00:24:14.72
Rome and Jerusalem...
00:24:14.75\00:24:16.62
that worked together
to put Jesus to death...
00:24:16.69\00:24:20.26
Rome turns on
Jerusalem and destroys it.
00:24:20.29\00:24:22.52
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
Ivor: People of God advance,
00:24:22.56\00:24:24.39
Rome... that
persecuted the church
00:24:24.43\00:24:27.06
during the 2nd and 3rd century,
turns on itself... in-fighting.
00:24:27.10\00:24:30.57
That in-fighting gives God's
people... space and time...
00:24:30.60\00:24:34.07
to advance... we're
seeing a pattern that
00:24:34.10\00:24:36.91
God uses Satan's
own weapons on himself.
00:24:36.94\00:24:39.71
Yvonne: Right... right...
00:24:39.74\00:24:41.08
James: So it's amazing really
when you see the symbolism here
00:24:41.11\00:24:45.11
because all of it
makes sense in the context
00:24:45.15\00:24:48.25
of the prophetic parallels
that we've been looking at,
00:24:48.28\00:24:50.02
in the context of the way the
Bible identifies these symbols
00:24:50.05\00:24:53.82
and in the flow of the history
that we're seeing in the world.
00:24:53.86\00:24:57.56
So we look at the Bible...
00:24:57.63\00:24:59.79
we allow the Bible
to interpret itself,
00:24:59.83\00:25:01.43
we'll allow the Bible
to interpret the symbols
00:25:01.46\00:25:03.33
and then we look for the history
and we notice the parallels,
00:25:03.37\00:25:06.60
the prophetic parallels that
repeat and enlarge each other
00:25:06.63\00:25:09.84
and those... all
those principles help us
00:25:09.87\00:25:12.01
to affirm the interpretation
that we're giving right here.
00:25:12.04\00:25:15.01
Yvonne: Right...
00:25:15.04\00:25:16.38
James: And that's
what we need to do,
00:25:16.41\00:25:17.75
we got to allow the Bible
to affirm and interpret itself
00:25:17.78\00:25:20.52
and then we are on track...
and it all starts making sense.
00:25:20.58\00:25:23.89
Yvonne: I love the way you
guys have... by the grace of God
00:25:23.92\00:25:27.19
under the unction
of the Holy Spirit
00:25:27.22\00:25:29.62
and just pull
from different verses
00:25:29.69\00:25:32.26
to show the cohesiveness here
00:25:32.29\00:25:33.96
that... no... this is
not just an isolated Book,
00:25:34.00\00:25:38.13
this is cohesiveness...
stuff from the Old Testament
00:25:38.17\00:25:42.34
and other parts
of the New Testament
00:25:42.37\00:25:45.27
just pulling it all together,
00:25:45.31\00:25:46.64
it's just... it's
fascinating to me.
00:25:46.68\00:25:48.14
Jason: It's got
Christ on every page...
00:25:48.18\00:25:49.51
Yvonne: Yes... yes.
00:25:49.54\00:25:50.88
Jason: I
remember hearing a sermon
00:25:50.91\00:25:52.61
when Christ was on every page.
00:25:52.65\00:25:53.98
Yvonne: Yes... yes...
00:25:54.02\00:25:55.35
James: And that's
what we want to do...
00:25:55.38\00:25:56.89
as we go through Revelation,
00:25:56.92\00:25:58.25
we want to be looking
for Christ in the gospels
00:25:58.29\00:26:00.46
really this is not just
about history and events,
00:26:00.49\00:26:02.89
this is really about the gospel
00:26:02.92\00:26:05.13
and it's about... what happens
when the gospel is preached,
00:26:05.16\00:26:08.16
how that gospel
affects and determines
00:26:08.20\00:26:10.67
the destiny of
nations and individuals
00:26:10.70\00:26:13.10
and how every one's
hearts and lives are tested
00:26:13.13\00:26:16.81
by the
proclamation of that gospel...
00:26:16.84\00:26:18.24
if we have those glasses on
00:26:18.27\00:26:20.31
as we look at the
Book of Revelation,
00:26:20.34\00:26:21.68
it's really going to make sense,
00:26:21.71\00:26:23.41
everything is
going to come together
00:26:23.45\00:26:25.11
and we're going to see
the big picture in the end,
00:26:25.15\00:26:27.32
it's all about following
the Lamb wherever He goes
00:26:27.35\00:26:29.82
so that He can keep us from
00:26:29.85\00:26:31.19
the beast and the
dragon and the deception
00:26:31.22\00:26:33.02
that's coming upon the
world in the end of time.
00:26:33.05\00:26:35.26
So I know there are people
who are going to be asking
00:26:35.29\00:26:37.43
about this program as
far as input, questions,
00:26:37.49\00:26:42.40
all kinds of materials that
00:26:42.43\00:26:45.37
hopefully will
be available soon,
00:26:45.43\00:26:47.37
how are they going to do that?
00:26:47.40\00:26:49.30
Jason: They should
send an e- mail to: sss
00:26:49.34\00:26:52.31
as in Salvation
in Symbols and Signs
00:26:52.37\00:26:54.28
@3abn. org
00:26:54.31\00:26:55.68
we'd love video submissions,
00:26:55.71\00:26:58.18
we've been
receiving a lot of e-mails
00:26:58.21\00:27:00.18
but we love video submissions
00:27:00.22\00:27:01.95
so we can roll
it into the program.
00:27:01.98\00:27:03.65
So, if we receive a
video from somewhere,
00:27:03.69\00:27:05.89
we're actually going to
roll that in the program.
00:27:05.92\00:27:08.56
Well, say, "Okay, we
just had a question from Joe
00:27:08.59\00:27:11.16
down in Alabama and
he's asking about... "
00:27:11.19\00:27:13.76
and we put him on...
00:27:13.80\00:27:15.13
Jason: Yes... we would love to
00:27:15.16\00:27:16.93
so they can be on
3abn, they can join us.
00:27:16.97\00:27:19.07
James: Here's your
opportunity to join us.
00:27:19.10\00:27:20.90
Yvonne: That's right...
00:27:20.94\00:27:22.27
James: All right, well,
we didn't really get into...
00:27:22.30\00:27:24.74
we haven't really picked
up yet on where we left off
00:27:24.77\00:27:27.31
but I think our
review was really good.
00:27:27.34\00:27:28.98
Yvonne: Oh yes... yes...
James: It was good for all of us
00:27:29.01\00:27:30.35
and hopefully
good for our audience
00:27:30.38\00:27:31.71
and those who are
watching... so our Viewers...
00:27:31.75\00:27:33.65
so as we pick up...
in our next program,
00:27:33.68\00:27:36.25
we're going to pick up
in Revelation chapter 8
00:27:36.28\00:27:38.52
and we're going to
be transitioning now
00:27:38.55\00:27:40.29
from verse 8 to verse
9... this is new territory...
00:27:40.32\00:27:42.96
it's going to be a
little challenging but
00:27:42.99\00:27:44.43
I think, it's
going to be a blessing
00:27:44.49\00:27:46.33
for those of us who are keen
on understanding the symbols
00:27:46.36\00:27:50.17
in the Book of Revelation.
00:27:50.20\00:27:51.63
Yvonne: Yes, yes.
00:27:51.67\00:27:53.00
James: So far so good?
00:27:53.03\00:27:54.37
Yvonne: Oh yeah... yeah...
00:27:54.40\00:27:55.74
James: All right,
looking forward to continuing
00:27:55.77\00:27:57.44
our program and for
God's continued leading.
00:27:57.47\00:27:59.44
Yvonne: Amen... amen.
00:27:59.47\00:28:01.38