Revelation chapter
8... the seven trumpets...
00:00:30.56\00:00:34.40
it's the third part of this
00:00:34.43\00:00:36.63
repeat and enlarge epic
that we find in Revelation,
00:00:36.67\00:00:39.40
we got the seven
churches, we got the seven seals
00:00:39.43\00:00:42.10
and now we got
the seven trumpets
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and then we finally have
the seven salvation signs,
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and so there are
four all together,
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this is the third
one, three... and then...
00:00:47.01\00:00:49.28
there's an
introduction and a close,
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and when you chop
up Revelation like that
00:00:50.71\00:00:52.88
or let me put it this way,
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when you organize
Revelation like that,
00:00:54.28\00:00:55.98
it makes it a lot
easier to understand
00:00:56.02\00:00:57.92
because once you've
done the seven churches
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and you've laid that foundation,
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you're simply repeating
now the same basic history
00:01:01.66\00:01:04.93
in the seven seals,
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and that repetition is found
again in the seven trumpets
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and then again in the
seven salvation signs,
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so it's like... "Okay,
now that we've worked out
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a basic
understanding of the churches,
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that's going to
help us with the seals...
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oh, now that we've
worked out a basic understanding
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of the churches and seals,
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that's going to help
us with the trumpets,
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oh! now we
understand all those three...
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that's really going to help us
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with the last
section of Revelation. "
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That's how the Book
of Revelation is written.
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Ivor: Each section
gives a stronger confirmation
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for the following
section. James: Yes.
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Ivor: Now that we have
two... churches and seals...
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stronger
confirmation for the trumpets
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and it goes on like that
throughout the whole book.
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James: And as we
opened last time... we learned
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that we are back
in the Apostolic Age,
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we're back in the
early Christian church era,
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we are back in the time frame
when Jesus Christ was born,
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lived, died, was resurrected
and then the Holy Spirit
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was poured out
in the early church
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and they went forth
to proclaim the gospel,
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that's where
we're going to begin
00:01:59.31\00:02:00.65
so, as we start to
look at these verses,
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we're going to be
trying to decode the symbolism
00:02:03.08\00:02:06.15
in relation to
that period of time
00:02:06.19\00:02:08.42
and it becomes easier
because we can go to the Bible,
00:02:08.46\00:02:11.16
we can find
verses that will give us
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the
understanding of the symbolism
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but how... where do
you apply that symbolism?
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James: Does it
apply to the future,
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does it apply to the past or
is it somewhere in the middle?
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Well, the way the
Book is structured
00:02:21.50\00:02:23.94
helps us to recognize
that it applies to things
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"which must
shortly come to pass... "
00:02:27.21\00:02:29.48
when John wrote
this he was told,
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"I am showing you things
that must shortly come to pass"
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so we begin in John's time,
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all right, we need to start
with a word of prayer, yeah,
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and then we'll
get right into it.
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All right, Jason, pray
for us would you please?
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Jason: Sure,
"Dear Heavenly Father,
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we thank you again for
another day of study...
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the opportunity
to study your Word,
00:02:46.83\00:02:48.50
we thank you for the
"repeat and enlarge" concept
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so that we may
continue to learn...
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if we miss it on one part,
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we can learn it
on the next, Lord,
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we ask that you'd
be with our Viewers
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and help them to
study the Word as well
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and to really gain
insight as to what is to come
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in Jesus' name we pray, amen. "
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All: "Amen... "
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James: So, just to
re-cap a little bit,
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we started in
Revelation chapter 8 and verse 1
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and we talked about how
that applies to the seven seals
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because it's the seventh seal...
we kind of knocked that out,
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then we went to
Revelation 8 verse 2
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and we saw here a new vision,
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and the implication that
is right in the first phrase,
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"And I saw... " that usually...
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takes us to a whole new
picture that John is seeing,
00:03:30.11\00:03:32.84
John is being shown,
"And I saw the seven angels,
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which stood before God;
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and to them were
given seven trumpets. "
00:03:36.95\00:03:38.35
And how do we
define the trumpets,
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what are the trumpets
representing or symbolizing?
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Jason: A couple
of different things.
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James: Okay... like...
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Jason: A couple of
different things...
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Yvonne: Alarm...
a sign of war too...
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Jason: One was
like... Christ's voice.
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James: Yes...
that was Revelation 1,
00:03:58.23\00:04:00.37
"and I heard the
voice of a trumpet
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and turned around and
saw the Son of man... "
00:04:02.50\00:04:04.17
so we've got
alarm, we've got war,
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we've got Christ calling to us,
the Word of God calling to us,
00:04:06.78\00:04:10.75
we've got also
the Day of Atonement,
00:04:10.78\00:04:12.98
the trumpets blowing,
calling people to atonement,
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that's to repentance, to
reconciliation with God...
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and all of these verses,
we looked at Joel chapter 2,
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we referenced 1st
Corinthians 14:8...
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Leviticus 23, 24...
so all of these verses
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identified for us why
God would use a trumpet
00:04:30.23\00:04:34.64
as a symbol in the
Book of Revelation,
00:04:34.67\00:04:37.21
He is giving us a message
now in the seven trumpets
00:04:37.24\00:04:40.28
that is a
message that is of alarm,
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it's a message
about destruction and war,
00:04:42.81\00:04:45.28
it's a message where Jesus
is working through all of that,
00:04:45.31\00:04:48.08
God is working
through all of that
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to call us to
repentance, to atonement,
00:04:49.52\00:04:52.09
to reconciliation,
it's a message...
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it gives this
trumpet a certain sound
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that we can prepare
ourselves for the battle.
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Ivor: I want to
add something in here,
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if you all just hold
your place in Revelation 8
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and just turn with me
to Ezekiel chapter 33,
00:05:03.67\00:05:06.50
and Ezekiel 33
beginning with verse 1,
00:05:06.53\00:05:11.47
the Bible says here,
00:05:11.51\00:05:15.24
"Again the word of the
LORD came unto me, saying,
00:05:15.28\00:05:18.31
Son of man, speak to the
children of thy people... "
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James: Where are you?
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Ivor: Verse 2,
chapter 33... verse 2,
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"Son of man, speak to
the children of thy people,
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and say unto them,
00:05:27.19\00:05:28.72
When I bring the
sword upon a land,
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if the people of the land
take a man of their coasts,
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and set him for their watchman:
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If when he seeth the
sword come upon the land,
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he blow the
trumpet, and... " what?
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"warn the people;
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Then whosever heareth
the sound of the trumpet,
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and taketh not warning;
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if the sword
come, and take him away,
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his blood shall
be upon his own head.
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He heard the
sound of the trumpet,
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and took not warning;
his blood shall be upon him.
00:05:56.85\00:06:00.19
But he that taketh warning
shall deliver his soul. "
00:06:00.26\00:06:03.56
So we see here this
concept of the trumpets
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also signifying
warning, judgment is coming,
00:06:06.70\00:06:09.70
I'm going to find
this theme present...
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James: All through the trumpets.
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Ivor: That's right...
when we go through the trumpets
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so, we've got
the story of Gideon,
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we've got the story of Jericho,
we've got the Day of Atonement,
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all these different stories
relating to the trumpets,
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help us to know what
we should be looking for
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when we get to the trumpets,
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of which proceed in
Revelation chapter 8
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as well as chapter 9.
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James: Now, here's
something interesting...
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that we already know...
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but we're just going
to review it a little bit,
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right after he sees this vision
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of this seven angels
giving these seven trumpets...
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"And another angel comes
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and this angel comes
and stands at the altar,
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having a golden censer and
he was giving him much incense,
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that he should offer it
with the prayers of the...
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all the saints...
upon the golden altar
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which was before the throne.
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And the smoke of the incense,
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which came with the
prayers of the saints,
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ascends up before God
out of the angel's hands... "
00:07:02.35\00:07:04.25
now, I just want
to stop right here,
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this is a separate
vision, we noted this,
00:07:06.05\00:07:09.22
not a separate vision,
it's part of the seven trumpets
00:07:09.26\00:07:11.66
but it's a prelude
before the trumpets sound
00:07:11.69\00:07:15.06
because if you look
in verse 6, it says,
00:07:15.10\00:07:18.37
"And the seven angels
which had the seven trumpets
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prepared themselves to
sound. " Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:07:20.47\00:07:22.80
James: So up until this
point, up until verse 6,
00:07:22.84\00:07:25.14
all the previous verses...
00:07:25.17\00:07:26.91
the trumpets haven't
started sounding yet,
00:07:26.94\00:07:28.41
so John is showing us
something that is taking place
00:07:28.44\00:07:31.75
before the trumpets sound,
before the judgments come,
00:07:31.81\00:07:35.08
before the
alarm, before the war,
00:07:35.12\00:07:36.75
before the devastation,
before all this happens,
00:07:36.79\00:07:38.65
there's something else that
we need to look at right here
00:07:38.69\00:07:41.12
and what we learned
was this is a picture
00:07:41.16\00:07:43.59
of the work of Jesus
Christ in the heavenly sanctuary
00:07:43.63\00:07:46.86
because you've got one altar
which represents the cross,
00:07:46.90\00:07:51.07
and He's going to another
altar which is the golden altar
00:07:51.10\00:07:55.20
which represents
the altar of incense
00:07:55.24\00:07:57.21
in the Holy
Place of the Sanctuary,
00:07:57.24\00:07:59.11
so He's going from the Cross
which was in the Courtyard,
00:07:59.14\00:08:02.58
to the Holy Place and the
Golden Altar in the Sanctuary
00:08:02.61\00:08:05.68
and He's taking something
from this altar into this altar
00:08:05.71\00:08:08.78
and that something
is described as incense
00:08:08.82\00:08:11.82
and we looked in Ephesians 5:2,
00:08:11.85\00:08:13.62
and we noted that the incense
00:08:13.66\00:08:15.36
represents the
sacrifice of Jesus,
00:08:15.42\00:08:17.23
it's a "sweetsmelling
savour" so, the picture is this,
00:08:17.26\00:08:21.06
what age are we in?
00:08:21.10\00:08:23.26
Are we in the age of
pagan Rome or papal Rome
00:08:23.30\00:08:25.70
or are we in the age of atheism
00:08:25.73\00:08:27.30
or are we in
the time of the end,
00:08:27.34\00:08:28.67
or are we in the
Millerite Movement,
00:08:28.70\00:08:30.04
where are we in
history right now... in this?
00:08:30.07\00:08:31.94
We're starting a new epic so we
are back in the Apostolic Age,
00:08:31.97\00:08:36.58
we're in the
early Christian era.
00:08:36.61\00:08:38.11
Yvonne: Okay.
00:08:38.15\00:08:39.48
Ivor: Let's clarify
that a little bit...
00:08:39.51\00:08:41.08
just for the
purpose of our study,
00:08:41.12\00:08:44.39
let's remember that these
three articles of furniture,
00:08:44.42\00:08:48.36
which all start off the seals,
the trumpets and the churches
00:08:48.39\00:08:53.29
are all found in the Holy Place
when the High Priest ministered
00:08:53.33\00:08:58.17
it was a simultaneous
ministry which lets us know
00:08:58.20\00:09:02.67
that whatever
happens under the seals
00:09:02.70\00:09:05.47
must unfold
simultaneously with the trumpets
00:09:05.51\00:09:08.34
and the churches,
so that's how we know
00:09:08.41\00:09:10.75
the first church
and the first seal
00:09:10.78\00:09:13.42
unfold in the Apostolic Age...
00:09:13.45\00:09:16.05
then the first trumpet
must parallel... right,
00:09:16.08\00:09:20.42
the first seal
and the first church.
00:09:20.46\00:09:23.09
James: I really like
that, I like that because
00:09:23.12\00:09:25.09
yeah, the Holy Place Ministry
was a three-fold ministry,
00:09:25.13\00:09:28.16
it was all
happening at the same time
00:09:28.20\00:09:29.53
and then you go to the
trumpets, churches and seals
00:09:29.56\00:09:31.87
and the articles of
furniture in the Holy Place
00:09:31.90\00:09:33.94
where the priest
ministered at the same time
00:09:33.97\00:09:36.30
are all found there, I
really like that point, Ivor,
00:09:36.34\00:09:38.64
I think that's
really significant.
00:09:38.67\00:09:40.44
Yvonne: And it
helps keep things...
00:09:40.48\00:09:42.18
helps to keep things in
order so that you can kind of
00:09:42.21\00:09:46.11
follow... it
connects the dots, yeah.
00:09:46.15\00:09:48.48
Jason: Checks and
balances. Yvonne: Yeah.
00:09:48.52\00:09:50.82
James: That's really important.
00:09:50.85\00:09:52.19
Ivor: We know that the
first trumpet is not something
00:09:52.22\00:09:53.62
that unfolded in the
Dark Ages, for example.
00:09:53.66\00:09:56.66
Yvonne: Hmmm... James: Yeah.
00:09:56.69\00:09:58.03
Ivor: Or something that
we should be looking in the
00:09:58.06\00:09:59.49
future for... when is that
first trumpet going to blow?
00:09:59.53\00:10:01.16
James: Because
we're in the Holy Place.
00:10:01.20\00:10:02.53
Ivor: That's right.
00:10:02.56\00:10:03.90
James: We're pre-1844...
we're back here and plus...
00:10:03.93\00:10:06.10
we know... that
after Jesus Christ died,
00:10:06.13\00:10:10.04
which is what we saw in
the beginning of the seals,
00:10:10.07\00:10:12.21
after He had come
down to this earth
00:10:12.24\00:10:14.24
is what you saw in the
beginning of the churches,
00:10:14.28\00:10:16.64
we know that He went to
heaven to intercede for us
00:10:16.71\00:10:19.05
and we know when
He went to heaven,
00:10:19.08\00:10:20.98
He took His
sacrifice from the cross
00:10:21.02\00:10:22.85
first altar... into the
Holy Place... Golden Altar...
00:10:22.88\00:10:26.05
and He applied that
sacrifice to our prayers.
00:10:26.09\00:10:28.69
In our last program we
were talking a little bit
00:10:28.72\00:10:31.86
about how those prayers...
when they first came up
00:10:31.89\00:10:34.96
were the prayers of
the early disciples,
00:10:35.00\00:10:36.83
remember when they
were in the upper room,
00:10:36.87\00:10:38.40
they were praying earnestly...
00:10:38.43\00:10:39.77
and they were
confessing their faults
00:10:39.80\00:10:41.24
and their... the way they
had mistreated one another,
00:10:41.27\00:10:44.11
I'm sure Peter was saying,
"I was so stupid when I said,
00:10:44.14\00:10:46.94
'Oh, yeah, they may
forsake you but I won't... '
00:10:46.98\00:10:50.78
forgive me for doing
that, James, John, I'm sorry,
00:10:50.81\00:10:54.48
that was wrong of me,
I'm worse than you guys... "
00:10:54.52\00:10:57.35
now that prayer went up to
heaven but not by its lonesome,
00:10:57.39\00:11:00.12
it headed to the throne
of God and Jesus snatched it,
00:11:00.16\00:11:03.12
applied His perfect
righteousness to it,
00:11:03.16\00:11:06.19
and it was
acceptable to God, right there
00:11:06.23\00:11:08.60
and when all
those prayers came up
00:11:08.63\00:11:10.47
something happens in response
and that's where we left off,
00:11:10.50\00:11:14.34
what happens in
response to all those prayers?
00:11:14.37\00:11:17.11
Well, we can go to the
text and we can look at the text
00:11:17.14\00:11:20.01
and it will tell us
in symbolic language
00:11:20.04\00:11:21.74
and then we're going
to go to the Scriptures
00:11:21.78\00:11:23.41
and we're going to
break down the symbols
00:11:23.45\00:11:25.31
and we're going to
see if those symbols
00:11:25.35\00:11:27.18
break out in the Apostolic Age,
00:11:27.22\00:11:29.28
it's going to be
amazing to see this.
00:11:29.32\00:11:31.35
Yvonne: Good, good, good.
00:11:31.42\00:11:32.75
James: So Jason, read
for us Revelation chapter 8
00:11:32.79\00:11:37.23
and let's just
read... pick up with verse 4
00:11:37.26\00:11:40.16
and verses... verse 5...
00:11:40.20\00:11:42.66
Jason: Okay, "And
the smoke of the incense,
00:11:42.70\00:11:45.07
which came up with
the prayers of the saints,
00:11:45.10\00:11:47.50
ascended up before God
out of the angel's hand.
00:11:47.54\00:11:49.87
And the angel took the censer,
00:11:49.90\00:11:51.97
and filled it
with fire of the altar,
00:11:52.01\00:11:54.24
and cast it into the
earth: and there were voices,
00:11:54.28\00:11:59.35
and thunderings, and
lightnings, and an earthquake. "
00:11:59.38\00:12:01.58
James: Okay,
here's the symbolism,
00:12:01.62\00:12:03.79
here's the symbolism,
00:12:03.82\00:12:05.25
we've got the
picture... Apostolic Age...
00:12:05.29\00:12:07.36
we've got the
intercession of Christ,
00:12:07.39\00:12:09.26
we have prayers of
God's people going up,
00:12:09.32\00:12:11.13
they're mingled with
the righteousness of Christ
00:12:11.16\00:12:13.83
and all of a sudden
we've got fire off the altar,
00:12:13.86\00:12:16.50
put into the
censer... cast into the earth,
00:12:16.53\00:12:18.93
we've got lightnings and voices
and thunderings and earthquake,
00:12:18.97\00:12:24.14
what is that,
what is going on there?
00:12:24.17\00:12:28.24
Yvonne: Before that... where we
have the smoke of the incense,
00:12:28.28\00:12:32.21
is that... is that
something significant,
00:12:32.25\00:12:34.95
the smoke of the incense?
00:12:34.98\00:12:37.15
Ivor: Yeah, I
think there is a...
00:12:37.19\00:12:39.82
just the incense
altogether, remember,
00:12:39.85\00:12:42.42
what does the incense represent?
00:12:42.46\00:12:43.83
Yvonne: Prayer...
Ivor: It represented prayers
00:12:43.86\00:12:45.29
and it represents the
righteousness of Christ,
00:12:45.33\00:12:46.73
you know, the
prayers of the saints
00:12:46.80\00:12:48.13
mingled with the
righteousness of Christ
00:12:48.16\00:12:49.50
so when that symbol...
when you see that symbol
00:12:49.53\00:12:53.37
you need to be
thinking... prayer...
00:12:53.40\00:12:57.37
you need to be thinking prayer
00:12:57.41\00:12:59.11
but also... intercession...
00:12:59.14\00:13:00.81
because that's what
our High Priest is doing
00:13:00.84\00:13:03.28
on our behalf...
He's interceding...
00:13:03.31\00:13:05.58
Yvonne: So, when
you see the smoke,
00:13:05.61\00:13:07.85
you think of the intercession.
00:13:07.88\00:13:10.22
Ivor: You think of
intercession mingled
00:13:10.29\00:13:12.19
with the righteousness of Christ
00:13:12.22\00:13:14.52
you think of prayer and
that's going to be important
00:13:14.56\00:13:17.73
for us to understand what
happens... in other words...
00:13:17.76\00:13:20.93
saints are
praying... fire falls,
00:13:20.96\00:13:24.90
saints are
praying... fire falls...
00:13:24.93\00:13:28.84
right, what does...
does that bring to memory
00:13:28.87\00:13:33.38
anything that we could
think of in the Scripture...
00:13:33.41\00:13:36.98
saints praying...
00:13:37.01\00:13:39.71
prayers ascending... fire
falls, so, go ahead James.
00:13:39.75\00:13:46.25
James: Well, I'm thinking
that we are in a situation here,
00:13:46.29\00:13:50.49
first of all, we
want to go right into...
00:13:50.53\00:13:52.09
I want to go
right to Revelation,
00:13:52.13\00:13:53.46
and I want to notice
something in Revelation
00:13:53.50\00:13:54.83
and then we're
in a situation here
00:13:54.86\00:13:56.20
where we have
to go to the Bible,
00:13:56.23\00:13:57.97
we have to find
out what are these...
00:13:58.03\00:13:59.87
if these are
symbols, what do they mean?
00:13:59.93\00:14:01.94
Okay, so first of
all I want to go back to
00:14:01.97\00:14:03.94
Revelation chapter 4
00:14:03.97\00:14:05.31
and I want to you to
notice something here
00:14:05.34\00:14:06.68
that we've already
studied but just to remember
00:14:06.71\00:14:10.98
because we're
again... we're rehashing...
00:14:11.01\00:14:13.28
we're "repeat and
enlarging" right here,
00:14:13.31\00:14:15.48
in Revelation 4 there's a
picture of the throne scene
00:14:15.52\00:14:19.29
and I want, Yvonne, read
for us in Revelation 4 verse 5.
00:14:19.32\00:14:22.89
Yvonne: "And out of the
throne proceeded lightnings
00:14:22.92\00:14:26.49
and thunderings and voices:
00:14:26.53\00:14:27.96
and there were seven lamps of
fire burning before the throne,
00:14:28.00\00:14:31.47
which are the
seven Spirits of God. "
00:14:31.50\00:14:33.57
James: Okay, out
of the throne of God,
00:14:33.60\00:14:35.67
this is the throne of God...
00:14:35.70\00:14:37.54
is represented
right here in this verse,
00:14:37.57\00:14:40.08
voices and... or lightnings
and thunders and voices
00:14:40.11\00:14:44.48
and the Spirit of God, the
seven-fold Spirit of God...
00:14:44.51\00:14:48.88
the Holy Spirit, so
there's the throne of God
00:14:48.92\00:14:51.35
and there's lightnings
and thunders and voices,
00:14:51.39\00:14:53.76
so we need to understand
the throne of God is represented
00:14:53.82\00:14:57.69
as having lightning and thunders
and voices and the Spirit of God
00:14:57.73\00:15:02.03
okay, that's the throne of God.
00:15:02.06\00:15:03.70
Jason: Why is there
seven Spirits though,
00:15:03.73\00:15:05.87
like, what is that about?
00:15:05.90\00:15:07.24
James: Seven
represents complete or perfect
00:15:07.27\00:15:09.44
so, if you look in
Genesis, for example,
00:15:09.47\00:15:11.81
it says that on the seventh
day God finished His work,
00:15:11.87\00:15:14.51
He completed His work,
His work was very good,
00:15:14.54\00:15:16.91
it was perfect... so
seven is a number that is used
00:15:16.95\00:15:19.65
to represent the
completeness or the fullness
00:15:19.68\00:15:22.88
of the Holy Spirit,
seven eyes, seven Spirits...
00:15:22.92\00:15:26.05
represents
completeness or fullness
00:15:26.09\00:15:27.72
so this is the full
power of the Holy Spirit
00:15:27.76\00:15:29.12
surrounding the throne of God,
00:15:29.19\00:15:30.79
the throne of God is symbolized,
00:15:30.83\00:15:32.39
all the power, all the
presence of the throne of God
00:15:32.43\00:15:36.23
is symbolized with lightnings
and voices and thunders
00:15:36.26\00:15:40.04
and the Spirit of God, okay,
00:15:40.10\00:15:41.70
then Jesus is presented
in Revelation chapter 5,
00:15:41.74\00:15:44.91
as the Lamb that is slain,
right after He's presented
00:15:44.94\00:15:48.74
Jason, read
Revelation chapter 6 now,
00:15:48.78\00:15:52.28
Revelation chapter
6 and read verse 6.
00:15:52.31\00:15:55.78
Jason: And I heard a voice in
00:15:55.82\00:15:58.89
the midst of the
four beasts say...
00:15:58.95\00:16:00.42
James: No...
Revelation 5 and verse 6...
00:16:00.46\00:16:03.43
Jason: Oh...
okay, let's see here,
00:16:03.46\00:16:07.33
"And I beheld, and, lo,
in the midst of the throne
00:16:07.36\00:16:10.37
and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders,
00:16:10.43\00:16:13.23
stood a Lamb as
it had been slain,
00:16:13.27\00:16:15.17
having seven
horns and seven eyes,
00:16:15.20\00:16:16.74
which are the
seven Spirits of God
00:16:16.77\00:16:18.87
sent forth into all the earth. "
00:16:18.91\00:16:20.74
James: Okay, in Revelation 4,
00:16:20.78\00:16:22.58
the seven Spirits of
God are before the throne,
00:16:22.61\00:16:25.91
in Revelation 5... the
seven Spirits of God...
00:16:25.95\00:16:29.15
the seven-fold Spirit of God
is sent forth in all the earth,
00:16:29.18\00:16:32.42
this is the first
picture that we see
00:16:32.45\00:16:35.06
of the outpouring
of the Holy Spirit,
00:16:35.09\00:16:37.59
the Holy Spirit
is before the throne,
00:16:37.63\00:16:40.00
Jesus is presented,
inauguration takes place,
00:16:40.03\00:16:43.16
the Lamb slain is presented,
00:16:43.20\00:16:44.90
Jesus says, "When
I go to the Father,
00:16:44.93\00:16:46.33
I'm going to send
the Holy Spirit... "
00:16:46.37\00:16:47.70
and so His Holy Spirit is
sent forth into all the earth,
00:16:47.74\00:16:50.21
that's going to be repeated
now in Revelation chapter 8,
00:16:50.24\00:16:52.84
so you get to Revelation
chapter 8, what's taking place?
00:16:52.87\00:16:55.31
Jesus is again, presented
00:16:55.34\00:16:57.95
as the One that's presenting
His righteousness to God
00:16:57.98\00:17:00.75
mingling with the
prayers of the saints
00:17:00.78\00:17:03.15
and when His righteousness
is mingled with our prayers,
00:17:03.18\00:17:06.22
we want to be praying for the
outpouring of the Holy Spirit,
00:17:06.25\00:17:07.59
He takes fire which is
the symbol of the Holy Spirit,
00:17:07.62\00:17:10.79
casts it into the
earth, and the voices
00:17:10.83\00:17:14.10
and thunderings and lightnings
that are in Revelation 4
00:17:14.13\00:17:16.90
around the throne,
guess where they are now?
00:17:16.93\00:17:19.40
They're in the
earth, they're in the earth,
00:17:19.43\00:17:22.64
the whole power of
God now around His throne
00:17:22.67\00:17:25.17
is now being cast
out into the earth,
00:17:25.24\00:17:26.84
is that what we see
on the Day of Pentecost
00:17:26.88\00:17:29.14
in the early
church? Let's take a look.
00:17:29.18\00:17:30.91
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:17:30.95\00:17:32.28
We want to go look now, the
first place we want to look,
00:17:32.31\00:17:34.15
Ivor already mentioned it and
let's just look at the verses,
00:17:34.18\00:17:36.22
the first place we
want to look is in Acts...
00:17:36.25\00:17:39.12
Acts chapter 2:1 through
4, if someone wants to read
00:17:39.15\00:17:43.06
Acts chapter 2:1 through 4.
00:17:43.09\00:17:44.43
Ivor: I'll go ahead
and read it, Acts 2...
00:17:44.46\00:17:47.66
"And when the day of
Pentecost was fully come,
00:17:47.70\00:17:51.00
they were all with
one accord in one place.
00:17:51.03\00:17:54.50
And suddenly there
came a sound from heaven
00:17:54.54\00:17:57.94
as of a rushing mighty wind,
and it filled all the house
00:17:57.97\00:18:01.74
where they were sitting.
00:18:01.78\00:18:03.11
And there appeared unto them
cloven tongues like as of fire,
00:18:03.14\00:18:08.25
and it sat on each of them.
00:18:08.28\00:18:09.98
And they were all
filled with the Holy Ghost,
00:18:10.02\00:18:11.99
and began to speak
with other tongues,
00:18:12.05\00:18:15.19
as the Spirit
gave them utterance. "
00:18:15.22\00:18:18.26
James: Okay, I'm just
going to read the verse again,
00:18:18.29\00:18:20.40
Ivor just read Acts 2:1-4...
00:18:20.43\00:18:21.76
now I'm going to read this
verse again, Revelation 8:5,
00:18:21.80\00:18:23.13
"Now the angel took the censer,
filled with fire off the altar,
00:18:23.16\00:18:25.37
and cast it unto the earth:
and there were voices... "
00:18:25.43\00:18:28.00
what does the verse say?
00:18:28.04\00:18:30.04
They had the Holy Spirit...
it came in the form of fire
00:18:30.07\00:18:33.14
and they began to do what?
00:18:33.17\00:18:34.58
Yvonne: Speak in tongues.
00:18:34.61\00:18:35.94
James: Do you see the connection
there? Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:18:35.98\00:18:38.41
James: You see... and
when you look up the word,
00:18:38.48\00:18:40.45
here, in Acts as "tongues"
it will say, "other languages"
00:18:40.52\00:18:46.76
that's the actual Greek word,
00:18:46.79\00:18:48.26
"other languages... "
they spake in other languages,
00:18:48.29\00:18:50.06
because there were so
many people there in Jerusalem
00:18:50.09\00:18:51.83
from different
parts of the world,
00:18:51.86\00:18:53.40
that were Jews but
they were... you know...
00:18:53.43\00:18:54.83
they spoke these
different languages...
00:18:54.86\00:18:56.26
where they had moved...
00:18:56.30\00:18:57.97
and they were just
coming to visit, basically,
00:18:58.00\00:18:59.83
they were
residents of these other...
00:18:59.87\00:19:01.20
they couldn't understand...
all understand Hebrew...
00:19:01.24\00:19:03.54
or even Greek and so,
00:19:03.57\00:19:04.97
the Holy Spirit gave
the gift of languages
00:19:05.01\00:19:07.04
to the disciples so
that they could speak
00:19:07.08\00:19:08.98
and everyone could understand.
00:19:09.01\00:19:10.35
Yvonne: So, this is
different from "Glossolalia"
00:19:10.38\00:19:12.31
which is... ecstatic utterances,
charismatic utterances,
00:19:12.35\00:19:16.99
not tongues as in manifested
in some churches today...
00:19:17.02\00:19:21.56
we are talking about
tongues... other languages...
00:19:21.62\00:19:24.13
James: Right, as in
the gift of languages.
00:19:24.16\00:19:25.69
Yvonne: So, I
don't understand Russian,
00:19:25.73\00:19:30.07
but I might have
spoken to Sveta in Russian
00:19:30.10\00:19:34.37
even though I wasn't... I wasn't
speaking it consciously...
00:19:34.40\00:19:37.24
James: It's a gift...
Yvonne: it's a gift...
00:19:37.31\00:19:38.64
James: It's a gift and God
gave that gift to the disciples
00:19:38.67\00:19:41.08
and they spoke fluently
in these other languages.
00:19:41.11\00:19:43.85
Jason: I was going to ask
something along those lines too,
00:19:43.88\00:19:46.11
like, why is it that
some churches think that
00:19:46.15\00:19:48.75
they can speak
tongues and that...
00:19:48.78\00:19:52.02
like, I don't understand that.
00:19:52.05\00:19:53.76
James: That is
something we can get into
00:19:53.79\00:19:55.79
as we move through this
because we are going to be
00:19:55.82\00:19:57.76
hitting on some of those aspects
00:19:57.79\00:19:59.16
as we get further into
the Book of Revelation,
00:19:59.19\00:20:01.10
everything that God has given,
00:20:01.13\00:20:04.23
every gift that God has given,
let me just say this for now,
00:20:04.27\00:20:06.70
every gift that God has given...
Satan has counterfeited.
00:20:06.74\00:20:09.17
The Sabbath has
been counterfeited,
00:20:09.20\00:20:11.04
remember, we read in
2nd Corinthians chapter 11,
00:20:11.07\00:20:13.91
another Jesus, another
gospel, another Spirit,
00:20:13.98\00:20:16.78
so there's the true
00:20:16.81\00:20:18.45
and there's the false
and there's the counterfeit,
00:20:18.51\00:20:19.91
now, Paul deals with this
in a letter to the Corinthians,
00:20:19.98\00:20:23.15
he talks about how they were
00:20:23.18\00:20:25.02
perverting the
gifts of the Spirit,
00:20:25.05\00:20:26.49
specifically, the gift of
tongues... and then he lays out
00:20:26.55\00:20:29.29
how the gift of tongues should
be manifested in the church,
00:20:29.32\00:20:32.06
how when it's present,
00:20:32.09\00:20:34.23
it should be
done with one or two,
00:20:34.26\00:20:35.70
there should be
an interpretation,
00:20:35.73\00:20:37.17
it should be done
decently in an order
00:20:37.20\00:20:38.57
and so, if we're
violating those principles
00:20:38.60\00:20:41.00
which are God-given
Biblical principles,
00:20:41.04\00:20:43.67
we can know...
we're not manifesting
00:20:43.71\00:20:45.11
the gift of tongues as
it's offered by the Holy Spirit
00:20:45.14\00:20:48.54
and we'll look at that... we can
look at that a little bit later.
00:20:48.58\00:20:51.01
Ivor: One easy way
to put this is that
00:20:51.05\00:20:53.58
we know the gift of tongues
is at least different languages,
00:20:53.62\00:20:56.99
so, if anyone claims to
have the gift of tongues,
00:20:57.02\00:21:00.26
they should at
least be able to speak
00:21:00.29\00:21:02.72
a couple of known languages
and if they don't have...
00:21:02.76\00:21:05.79
you understand what I'm saying,
00:21:05.83\00:21:07.16
if they can
speak everything else
00:21:07.20\00:21:08.53
that everyone can understand,
00:21:08.56\00:21:09.90
they can't speak
another language,
00:21:09.93\00:21:11.27
that's not the
Biblical gift of tongues.
00:21:11.30\00:21:12.90
James: And it's a gift,
it's not a learned language.
00:21:12.93\00:21:14.87
Ivor: That's right...
it's not a learned language
00:21:14.90\00:21:16.81
it's a gift, there's something
that you never practiced
00:21:16.84\00:21:19.41
and suddenly you're
able to speak that language
00:21:19.44\00:21:21.28
and one of the things I
always find interesting is that
00:21:21.31\00:21:24.21
those who... who say
that they speak in tongues,
00:21:24.25\00:21:28.58
have never been able to
speak in another language
00:21:28.62\00:21:32.89
that was just... in other
words, they've never manifested
00:21:32.92\00:21:35.62
as it is manifested in Acts 2,
00:21:35.66\00:21:37.43
the ability to
speak in another language,
00:21:37.46\00:21:39.49
so, yeah, I know we're
kind of digressing... yes.
00:21:39.53\00:21:43.50
James: It's good, it's good,
we want to read another verse
00:21:43.53\00:21:44.93
that's going to
help us with that,
00:21:44.97\00:21:46.30
so the other verse
that I want us to read
00:21:46.33\00:21:47.94
that's going to help us
with that is going to be
00:21:48.00\00:21:49.40
Acts chapter 2 verses 5 and 6.
00:21:49.44\00:21:51.67
Acts 2:5 and 6...
Yvonne, do you have that?
00:21:51.71\00:21:54.84
Yvonne: "And there were dwelling
at Jerusalem Jews, devout men,
00:21:54.88\00:21:58.11
out of every
nation under heaven.
00:21:58.15\00:21:59.68
Now when this was noised abroad,
the multitude came together,
00:21:59.71\00:22:03.32
and were confounded,
00:22:03.35\00:22:04.69
because that every
man heard them speak
00:22:04.72\00:22:07.09
in his own language. "
00:22:07.12\00:22:08.59
James: Now that's
very clear isn't it?
00:22:08.62\00:22:10.23
Yvonne: That's very
clear. James: That nails it.
00:22:10.26\00:22:11.93
Yvonne: Yeah.
James: So these voices...
00:22:11.99\00:22:13.76
now I want us to
read another verse,
00:22:13.80\00:22:15.16
and I'm going to read it for us,
00:22:15.20\00:22:16.53
it's in Matthew
chapter 3 and verse 11,
00:22:16.56\00:22:18.00
get this... this is...
00:22:18.03\00:22:19.70
this is way before Jesus leaves
and sends the Holy Spirit,
00:22:19.73\00:22:24.24
"I indeed baptize you...
" this is John the Baptist,
00:22:24.27\00:22:28.58
"with water unto repentance:
but he that cometh after me
00:22:28.61\00:22:32.21
is mightier than I, whose
shoes I am not worthy to bear:
00:22:32.25\00:22:36.12
he shall baptize you with the
Holy Ghost, and with fire... "
00:22:36.15\00:22:39.99
this is predicting
the Day of Pentecost.
00:22:40.02\00:22:44.76
John the Baptist is speaking
about the water baptism,
00:22:44.79\00:22:47.43
he's saying,
"Now when Jesus comes,
00:22:47.46\00:22:48.80
He's going to baptize you with
the Holy Ghost and with fire. "
00:22:48.83\00:22:51.57
And so, we're
looking forward now...
00:22:51.60\00:22:53.50
that's Matthew 3:11,
we're looking forward now
00:22:53.54\00:22:55.27
to what's taking place right
here on the Day of Pentecost
00:22:55.30\00:22:57.34
and so we've got an
idea so far, of the symbols,
00:22:57.37\00:23:02.24
the fire represents the
Holy Ghost... the Holy Spirit.
00:23:02.28\00:23:05.88
That is confirmed for us
in Revelation chapter 4...
00:23:05.91\00:23:09.22
chapters 4 and 5, but
also it's confirmed for us
00:23:09.25\00:23:12.52
in Acts chapter 2...
00:23:12.55\00:23:13.89
let's see, Acts
chapter 2 verses 1 through 4
00:23:13.92\00:23:16.86
and Acts chapter
2 verses 5 and 6.
00:23:16.89\00:23:19.83
The Holy Spirit was
poured out and we're told that
00:23:19.86\00:23:23.47
it looked like fire,
00:23:23.50\00:23:24.83
and then they spake
in these other languages,
00:23:24.87\00:23:26.53
that second symbol then we
got figured out is the voices,
00:23:26.57\00:23:29.70
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:23:29.74\00:23:31.07
James: The voices that we
see in Revelation chapter 8
00:23:31.11\00:23:33.84
are the other tongues
00:23:33.88\00:23:36.51
the disciples spoke in their
languages the disciples spoke
00:23:36.54\00:23:39.61
and so we've got those
two symbols figured out,
00:23:39.65\00:23:41.05
what about the thunderings
and what about the lightnings?
00:23:41.08\00:23:43.75
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:23:43.79\00:23:46.69
James: I want you to look here
00:23:46.72\00:23:48.62
and by-the-way...
well, we'll get to that,
00:23:48.66\00:23:51.76
I want you to look here in
relation to the thunderings
00:23:51.79\00:23:54.86
in John chapter 12 verse 28...
John chapter 12 and verse 28,
00:23:54.90\00:23:58.80
Jesus is at the Temple
and He's preparing for Calvary
00:23:58.83\00:24:08.31
and as He's
preparing for Calvary,
00:24:08.34\00:24:10.25
the Greeks come and they
want to have a moment with Him
00:24:10.31\00:24:13.85
to talk... to meet with Him,
00:24:13.88\00:24:15.22
and that's the
context of verse 28.
00:24:15.25\00:24:17.85
Yvonne: Did you say
John 12? James: John 12:28.
00:24:17.89\00:24:20.06
Jason: I'll read it.
James: This is Christ speaking.
00:24:20.09\00:24:23.26
Jason: "Father,
glorify thy name.
00:24:23.32\00:24:25.49
Then came there a
voice from heaven, saying,
00:24:25.53\00:24:28.36
I have both glorified it,
and will glorify it again. "
00:24:28.43\00:24:31.43
James: And verse 29, sorry.
00:24:31.47\00:24:34.70
Jason: Verse 29,
"The people therefore,
00:24:34.74\00:24:36.81
that stood by, and heard
it, said that it thundered:
00:24:36.84\00:24:39.24
others said, An
angel spake to him. "
00:24:39.27\00:24:41.61
James: Okay, God
is speaking here...
00:24:41.64\00:24:43.81
God is communicating
with Jesus... he's saying,
00:24:43.85\00:24:46.05
"This is my Son, listen to
Him" and people are standing by
00:24:46.08\00:24:49.65
and they hear
this... this voice...
00:24:49.68\00:24:51.25
and what does it sound
like? Yvonne: Thunder...
00:24:51.29\00:24:52.92
James: Thunder... thunder is
a symbol of the voice of God.
00:24:52.95\00:24:55.12
Yvonne: Ah...
00:24:55.16\00:24:56.86
Jason: So we've got the fire
representing the Holy Spirit,
00:24:56.89\00:24:58.99
we've got the
voices representing
00:24:59.03\00:25:00.73
the gift of languages,
00:25:00.76\00:25:02.10
and we've got the thunder
representing the voice of God,
00:25:02.13\00:25:03.57
now, we want to
apply this again to...
00:25:03.60\00:25:06.10
and there are a
number of other verses,
00:25:06.13\00:25:08.04
I'm just going to
give you the references,
00:25:08.07\00:25:09.87
Job 26:14... but we want
to apply this again to the...
00:25:09.90\00:25:14.98
to the Christian
church... to the Apostolic Age,
00:25:15.01\00:25:16.64
were there times
when the voice of God
00:25:16.68\00:25:19.91
was manifested in the
early Christian church?
00:25:19.98\00:25:22.68
And one of those
examples I want to give you is
00:25:22.72\00:25:25.39
Acts chapter 9 verse 4,
00:25:25.42\00:25:26.76
remember when Saul was
persecuting the church?
00:25:26.79\00:25:28.99
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:25:29.02\00:25:30.36
James: And he was going
from Jerusalem to Damascus?
00:25:30.39\00:25:31.96
He's riding along
with the soldiers...
00:25:31.99\00:25:33.86
and there's this bright light
and then what does he hear?
00:25:33.90\00:25:37.50
he hears this voice... and
I'm just going to read verse 4,
00:25:37.53\00:25:41.10
"He fell to the earth,
00:25:41.14\00:25:42.47
and he heard a
voice saying unto him,
00:25:42.50\00:25:44.31
Saul, Saul, why
persecutest thou me?"
00:25:44.34\00:25:46.21
Who is that, who
is speaking to him?
00:25:46.24\00:25:48.28
Yvonne: It's God.
00:25:48.34\00:25:49.68
James: Yeah, Jesus
is speaking to him,
00:25:49.71\00:25:51.08
see, he hears the
literal voice of Christ,
00:25:51.11\00:25:53.48
so here again is
another manifestation
00:25:53.52\00:25:55.82
of the actual outpouring
of God's power in the earth,
00:25:55.85\00:26:01.29
God wants Saul
to be on His side,
00:26:01.32\00:26:04.83
He wants him to be converted,
He wants him to become Paul,
00:26:04.89\00:26:07.03
He wants him to take
the message to the Gentiles,
00:26:07.06\00:26:09.43
and so, we've got the
fire on the day of Pentecost,
00:26:09.46\00:26:11.80
that's the symbol
of the Holy Spirit,
00:26:11.83\00:26:13.34
we've got the voices...
00:26:13.40\00:26:14.74
that's the symbol of
the gift of languages,
00:26:14.77\00:26:16.27
and then we've got this thunder
00:26:16.30\00:26:17.64
which represents or
symbolizes God's voice,
00:26:17.67\00:26:19.94
God, at times... came
directly down to individuals
00:26:19.97\00:26:24.18
and spoke to
them, now He also...
00:26:24.21\00:26:26.82
in the early church,
He also used lightnings,
00:26:26.85\00:26:29.65
we haven't
identified that symbol yet
00:26:29.68\00:26:31.39
and we're not
going to in this program,
00:26:31.42\00:26:33.09
Yvonne: Ah... going
to give us a cliffhanger?
00:26:33.12\00:26:35.22
James: Because
we're out of time.
00:26:35.26\00:26:37.33
Yvonne: Laughing...
00:26:37.36\00:26:38.69
James: But we'll pick
up with the lightnings,
00:26:38.73\00:26:40.90
the lightnings are
really significant also
00:26:40.93\00:26:43.16
and when we see
the whole package...
00:26:43.20\00:26:45.23
this is going to
be so powerful because
00:26:45.27\00:26:47.20
what we're seeing so far is
that heaven comes down to earth,
00:26:47.24\00:26:50.11
heaven comes down to earth.
00:26:50.14\00:26:51.94
So, I know there
are going to be people
00:26:51.97\00:26:54.21
who are going to
be wondering about
00:26:54.28\00:26:55.81
some of these symbols...
perhaps... have questions.
00:26:55.84\00:26:58.25
Jason: The best way for
them to get that to us is
00:26:58.28\00:27:00.62
to send an
e-mail to sss@3abn. org
00:27:00.68\00:27:03.69
Salvation in Symbols and Signs.
00:27:03.72\00:27:06.69
James: Salvation
in Symbols and Signs,
00:27:06.72\00:27:08.62
Ivor, close us out with a
word of prayer, would you?
00:27:08.66\00:27:10.43
Ivor: Let's pray,
"Heavenly Father, we thank you
00:27:10.46\00:27:12.86
for continuing to give
us insight into your Word
00:27:12.89\00:27:15.23
and we pray, Lord, that you
will continue to open our eyes,
00:27:15.26\00:27:18.27
continue to make
these things plain
00:27:18.33\00:27:20.20
and Father, may they move us
00:27:20.24\00:27:22.60
to put our faith
and trust in you,
00:27:22.64\00:27:24.41
we pray it in
Christ's name, amen. "
00:27:24.47\00:27:26.21
All: "Amen... "
00:27:26.24\00:27:27.68
James: "Amen," so, basically
what we're looking at here is,
00:27:27.71\00:27:30.78
we're looking at
all of these symbols...
00:27:30.85\00:27:32.71
this is not literal,
lightning, thunder, fire,
00:27:32.75\00:27:35.52
natural disasters,
00:27:35.55\00:27:36.99
spiritual things are
spiritually discerned
00:27:37.02\00:27:39.29
so we see these
symbols in Revelation
00:27:39.32\00:27:41.76
and we take them
back to the Apostolic Age,
00:27:41.79\00:27:44.06
we let the Bible break them open
00:27:44.09\00:27:46.83
and we see how they
apply in Biblical history,
00:27:46.86\00:27:49.40
Biblical history shows
us how these symbols apply
00:27:49.43\00:27:51.73
to the early Christian church,
it's powerful, it's beautiful,
00:27:51.77\00:27:54.74
got to have more.
00:27:54.77\00:27:56.10
Yvonne: Amen...
00:27:56.14\00:27:57.47