Here we go... we're
in the seven trumpets...
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we're in the seven trumpets,
we are in the seven trumpets
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but you're not
going to get that feeling
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when we read the first
verse of Revelation chapter 8
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because the first
verse of Revelation 8
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is actually the 7th Seal,
00:00:41.97\00:00:43.81
now what it's doing in
chapter 8 is a mystery,
00:00:43.84\00:00:47.58
it's not a really mystery
but it's just mysterious,
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like why didn't they just
leave that with the seven seals?
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Why did they put it in
with the seven trumpets?
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We've got to
remember in this context that
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the chapter divisions of the
Bible are not always accurate,
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they're not inspired...
the Bible was all written just
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in one document, just
one word after another
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one chapter after
another, we divided it up
00:01:05.46\00:01:07.93
to make it easier and
sometimes when we divide,
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we don't quite get it right,
we think we do... we don't.
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Some people have
been led to the conclusion
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that the seven trumpets
must be part of the seven seals,
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the seven seals open and then
there are the seven trumpets.
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Now, the seven seals
are part of the six seals
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the seven trumpets
start a whole new epic,
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a whole new picture and
we'll see that as we get into it
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but we want to start with prayer
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and then, we'll jump right in.
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Jason, you want to
open us up with prayer?
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Jason: Sure...
"Dear Heavenly Father,
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thank you for the opportunity
to study your Word once again,
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please be with us as we take
a look at the trumpet scenes
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and help us to
understand what we are reading,
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in Jesus' name we pray, amen. "
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All: "Amen... amen... "
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James: So
Yvonne, let's just read
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Revelation chapter 8 verse 1.
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Yvonne: "And when he
had opened the seventh seal,
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there was silence in heaven
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about the space
of half an hour. "
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James: Okay now,
this seventh seal
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is connected with
the six other seals,
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even though it's a new chapter,
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I've actually
crossed my chapter 8 out,
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and I put it... it's the
next verse to where it starts,
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how do we know that?
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Well, remember when
the sixth seal was opened
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and there were all
these signs in the heavens
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and all these people were hiding
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and running for the
rocks and the mountains
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and saying,
"Fall on us and hide us
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from the face of Him
that sits on the throne
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and the wrath of the Lamb
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for the great day
of His wrath is coming,
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who's going to
be able to stand?"
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Who shall be able to stand?
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Okay, after that,
we have chapter 7,
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chapter 7 was an interlude,
it was an interruption
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and its specific purpose
was to answer the question,
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"Who shall be able to stand?"
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Who's going to be able to stand?
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those who are sealed... a great
multitude that no man can number
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answered the question...
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we spent four sessions
answering that question,
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why?
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Because it's an important
question to answer, right?
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Who's going to be able to stand?
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Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
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James: So, if you are
just going through the
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succession of the seals...
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just flowing from
the early Apostolic Age
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and you're moving through
persecution, the Dark Ages
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and the sealing and
then the Millerite Movement,
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you come into these signs and
then the second coming of Jesus,
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if you're flowing like
that, once you get to chapter 7
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the seal of God on the redeemed
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has already taken place
because Jesus is coming,
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so you can take
chapter 7, 1 through 8
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and take those
verses out of the way,
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just put them aside,
they've already taken place,
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they fit back here,
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the next verse is
chapter 7 verses 9 through 17...
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that's a picture of the redeemed
around the throne in heaven
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that's future to
the Second Coming,
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He's coming to get them and He's
going to take them to heaven
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and there's going
to be this throne,
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so, all those
verses can be taken aside
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and they can be
put into the future,
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in the
succession... you understand,
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the next verse we will read then
will be Revelation 8 verse 1.
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Ivor: So what you're saying
is, if you just... if you...
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just kind of shrunk
Revelation chapter 7
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and just looked at
Revelation 8, verse 1
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occurring right after
chapter 6, the last verse,
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"Who shall be able to
stand?" And no one answers.
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James: Right... and
then there's silence...
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and, of course, no one answers
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because you can
tell the inference is,
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"Who's going to
be able to stand?"
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No one is
saying, "I can stand...
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I can... hey... I can do it"
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not the righteous
and not the wicked.
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There's just this silence
as the seventh seal is opened,
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now, I want you to
look at a verse with me,
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this one's found in Zechariah
and this one will basically
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describe this whole
scenario, Zechariah chapter 2
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and Zechariah is right
next to the Book of Matthew,
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and Malachi... so you've got,
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Matthew, Malachi
and then Zechariah,
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so its two books away from the
New Testament Book of Matthew.
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Zechariah chapter 2
and... can you read Yvonne,
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are you there yet? Yvonne: Yeah.
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James: Could you
read 10 through 13?
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Yvonne: Sure...
"Sing and rejoice,
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O daughter of
Zion: for, lo, I come,
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and I will dwell in the
midst of thee, saith the Lord.
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And many nations shall be
joined to the Lord in that day,
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and shall be my people:
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and I will dwell
in the midst of thee,
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and thou shalt know
that the Lord of hosts
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hath sent me unto thee.
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And the Lord shall inherit Judah
his portion in the holy land,
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and shall
choose Jerusalem again.
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Be silent, O all
flesh, before the LORD:
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for he is raised up out
of his holy habitation. "
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Wow...
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James: You see that?
"Be silent... be silent,
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he is raised up out
of his holy habitation. "
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When Jesus
comes... right now Jesus...
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and we got to look at this
in... as we get into this...
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the trumpets... right now,
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Jesus is wearing
garments of priestly ministry,
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when He comes, He's going to
be wearing different garments,
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and He's going to come
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to deliver His
people from their enemies...
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we looked at
Revelation 19:11, you know,
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He comes on the
horse with armies, okay,
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so He's clad in
vestures of righteousness,
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He's clad in
vestures of judgment, okay,
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when He comes with
the sword et cetera,
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the whole world is
going to be captive
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because the Bible tells us,
in fact Revelation 1:7 says,
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"Every eye shall see Him...
even those that pierced Him... "
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"every... " and so everyone's
just going to see that,
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at first they're going to fight
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and then they're going to
stop and they're going to say,
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"Who is going to
be able to stand?"
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And then there is silence,
when the silence is broken
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it's going to be
broken by the voice of Jesus.
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You know what
Jesus is going to say?
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"My grace is
sufficient for thee"
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that's... that's
who's going to be...
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whoever trust in my grace,
you're going to be able to stand
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that's going to
be a glorious day
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because right when we hear that,
we're going to feel something
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strange take place at our feet,
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see, normally, you
feel your feet on something,
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you're either walking
or what... but in that day,
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our feet are going to feel
like they're not on anything
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because they're
actually going to be
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lifting up from terra
firma and going up into the air,
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we're going to meet
the Lord... the Bible says,
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"we're going to meet the
Lord in the air in that day. "
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Yvonne: That's exciting.
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Ivor: I think there
are a couple of things
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as I'm looking at this chapter
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talking about the seals
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and specifically the sixth seal
going into the seventh seal,
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there seems to
be a great failure
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on the part of the
wicked to understand who God is
00:07:08.22\00:07:10.59
because the
question that's asked...
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they're the ones
that ask the question,
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"Who shall be able to stand?"
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and in their
mind they're thinking,
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"This God is so like... no
one's going to be saved... "
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and God... then
the Book shows us
00:07:23.10\00:07:25.61
there's a great multitude...
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James: that no man can number...
Ivor: that no man can number...
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"I don't know what you
guys were thinking about me...
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but my mission was
never to destroy...
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my mission was to save... "
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so they misunderstand the
character of God in that way
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number two, sin deranges people
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and what I mean by that is...
as you look at Revelation 6
00:07:44.79\00:07:48.26
and again, this goes into the
silence of Revelation chapter 7
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but in Revelation 6... you
have the wicked crying out,
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"Hide us from the
wrath of the Lamb,"
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from... you know,
00:07:57.31\00:07:58.74
"the wrath of the Lamb...
" so they're crying out...
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I want you to just
think about that for a moment,
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like, if you are
leaving your house one day
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you're walking down the
street and you see someone...
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James: Freaking out...
00:08:07.95\00:08:10.29
Ivor: burst around the
corner, "run for your lives... "
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and you're
like... "what, what...?"
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"run... it's a
Lamb... a Lamb... "
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you'd be like...
you'd get ready to run...
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James: And then you'd look
at baa... baa... baa... baa.
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Ivor: A Lamb?
Right... they are crying out,
00:08:25.73\00:08:31.14
"hide us from the
wrath of the Lamb. "
00:08:31.17\00:08:33.81
Yvonne: Hmmm...
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Ivor: Jesus is not coming
because He's seeking to destroy,
00:08:35.24\00:08:38.71
that's going to happen
00:08:38.75\00:08:40.18
but it's a misunderstanding
of His character...
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that shows that the
wicked have misunderstood...
00:08:42.62\00:08:44.95
the character of Christ,
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that He's trying to seek
and save as many as He can
00:08:46.72\00:08:50.26
and so I think when
that moment of silence comes,
00:08:50.29\00:08:53.80
a couple of
things are happening,
00:08:53.83\00:08:55.73
number one, the
Word has been gong forth,
00:08:55.76\00:08:58.20
He's been sending
His people to preach,
00:08:58.23\00:09:00.64
"Come on preach,
preach, while it is yet day...
00:09:00.67\00:09:02.34
preach, preach, preach... "
00:09:02.40\00:09:03.74
but now... silence...
00:09:03.77\00:09:05.31
there's no more...
you've cut off the limit of...
00:09:05.34\00:09:08.74
of mercy and
forgiveness has been reached
00:09:08.81\00:09:11.05
and there's nothing
more for you to hear
00:09:11.08\00:09:13.25
and number two... there's
nothing more for you to say.
00:09:13.28\00:09:15.78
These people who have
been giving hard speeches
00:09:15.82\00:09:18.42
and "God, yeah... if God
is real, then let Him do"
00:09:18.45\00:09:21.02
and now comes this
time where nobody speaks,
00:09:21.06\00:09:24.49
because there's just this
awe... this realization...
00:09:24.53\00:09:30.37
the Bible says that the wicked
00:09:30.40\00:09:32.63
who have given all
these hard speeches,
00:09:32.67\00:09:35.47
there's going to come that time
where there's total silence,
00:09:35.50\00:09:39.11
no one's going to have an
accusing finger against God,
00:09:39.14\00:09:41.64
against His people,
the probation has closed,
00:09:41.68\00:09:45.61
there's no more good news
to be shared to the rebellious
00:09:45.65\00:09:51.02
in order to have them saved,
00:09:51.05\00:09:52.39
and so all these
things come to play,
00:09:52.42\00:09:54.39
there's a lot
there in that silence,
00:09:54.42\00:09:56.26
even though it's just one verse,
00:09:56.29\00:09:57.89
there is a lot
there in that silence
00:09:57.93\00:10:00.60
that just really reflects the
gospel of the character of God
00:10:00.63\00:10:03.87
and the character of the wicked
00:10:03.90\00:10:05.23
as well as the
character of the righteous.
00:10:05.27\00:10:06.60
James: And you know,
Ivor, as you were talking there,
00:10:06.63\00:10:09.50
I was thinking about this,
there is wrath in the Lamb,
00:10:09.54\00:10:12.54
the wrath of the Lamb is
the fact that it's a Lamb
00:10:12.57\00:10:15.28
and that's just
overwhelming to these...
00:10:15.31\00:10:18.05
I mean, we think about that
because, oh, I think about...
00:10:18.08\00:10:20.52
I picture Jesus
cleansing the Temple...
00:10:20.55\00:10:21.88
Ivor: Yeah.
00:10:21.92\00:10:23.42
James: He was Jesus... you know,
00:10:23.45\00:10:24.79
but He was angry
00:10:24.82\00:10:26.29
at those who were
there, why they were there
00:10:26.32\00:10:29.52
and what they were doing,
those who weren't there...
00:10:29.56\00:10:31.03
those who weren't
allowed to come in there
00:10:31.06\00:10:32.53
and when you have a meek
and lowly person like a lamb,
00:10:32.56\00:10:37.37
when you have that
kind of representation,
00:10:37.40\00:10:40.37
when you see that
person standing up
00:10:40.40\00:10:43.07
for those who
have been downtrodden,
00:10:43.10\00:10:45.64
and standing up
against abuse and cruelty,
00:10:45.67\00:10:48.28
you know, when
you have a just cause,
00:10:48.31\00:10:50.81
no matter how powerful a
person is that you are opposing,
00:10:50.85\00:10:53.75
no matter how...
you know... much they...
00:10:53.78\00:10:55.45
when you're...
you're cause is just,
00:10:55.48\00:10:57.12
there is something to fear,
00:10:57.15\00:10:58.49
there is
something to fear and so,
00:10:58.52\00:11:00.69
the Lamb's cause
is just and right
00:11:00.72\00:11:02.82
and so that wrath,
to us... it's like...
00:11:02.86\00:11:05.73
"that's the Lamb,
that's the Lamb... "
00:11:05.76\00:11:08.13
so... because it's
so just and so right
00:11:08.16\00:11:10.57
it's like, "Whoa, that
is... it's just too much... "
00:11:10.60\00:11:13.54
it's just too much
for them, and so that...
00:11:13.60\00:11:16.07
we see that in
the context of this,
00:11:16.10\00:11:18.31
it's powerful
when you think about it
00:11:18.34\00:11:19.81
in the context of
Jesus on this earth
00:11:19.84\00:11:21.18
and it's going to
be even more powerful
00:11:21.21\00:11:22.54
when we see it in the context
of Jesus coming the second time.
00:11:22.58\00:11:25.85
This is kind of
a digression but...
00:11:25.88\00:11:27.88
when the Lord Jesus returns,
00:11:27.92\00:11:31.22
if we have not been
changed, in a moment,
00:11:31.25\00:11:35.16
in the twinkling of an eye,
00:11:35.19\00:11:36.52
we cannot stand
before a righteous, holy God,
00:11:36.56\00:11:39.63
we'll be consumed by the
brightness of His coming,
00:11:39.69\00:11:42.00
correct? so, that's...
00:11:42.03\00:11:44.63
it's not so much Him
doing some vengeful thing,
00:11:44.67\00:11:49.07
it is man's nature
to not be able to stand
00:11:49.10\00:11:53.48
in the presence of a holy God.
00:11:53.54\00:11:55.24
James: That's the very
thing we're talking about here.
00:11:55.28\00:11:56.61
Yvonne: Okay.
00:11:56.64\00:11:57.98
James: See, sometimes we think,
00:11:58.01\00:11:59.35
"Oh, that must be some
kind of supernatural event... "
00:11:59.38\00:12:00.72
no, it's the
reality of not being...
00:12:00.75\00:12:02.18
not being able to bear it,
00:12:02.22\00:12:03.55
we can actually give some
practical examples of that
00:12:03.59\00:12:07.56
but if you are a person who's
used to being in bad company
00:12:07.59\00:12:11.99
and doing wicked things...
00:12:12.03\00:12:13.36
it is uncomfortable
to be in good company,
00:12:13.40\00:12:17.23
when I came out of the world,
00:12:17.27\00:12:19.37
I started going to church
00:12:19.40\00:12:21.44
and I felt
uncomfortable in church
00:12:21.47\00:12:22.90
and it wasn't because people
didn't want me to be there
00:12:22.94\00:12:25.67
or because they were judging me,
00:12:25.71\00:12:27.04
they were glad I was there
but I just had this discomfort,
00:12:27.08\00:12:30.05
I was looking around like,
00:12:30.08\00:12:31.41
"everyone is sprouting
wings under their suit jacket,
00:12:31.45\00:12:34.18
right, and I'm a sinner"
and that's what we see here,
00:12:34.22\00:12:37.22
people who have kept
themselves in the dark
00:12:37.25\00:12:40.66
and now they face the Lamb,
pure innocence, pure holiness,
00:12:40.69\00:12:44.46
pure love... and it's
just overwhelming to them
00:12:44.49\00:12:46.29
so yeah, you're right.
00:12:46.33\00:12:47.66
Jason: And they would
be miserable in heaven
00:12:47.70\00:12:49.33
if they were
living that lifestyle
00:12:49.36\00:12:52.97
and they didn't want to change,
they never wanted to change,
00:12:53.00\00:12:56.54
they don't... imagine them
having to spend an eternity...
00:12:56.57\00:12:59.87
James: Eating
from the Tree of Life.
00:12:59.91\00:13:01.98
Jason: Yeah, living the great
life but it's not great to them
00:13:02.01\00:13:06.88
because they just want to sin
00:13:06.92\00:13:08.25
and they're
comfortable in their sins.
00:13:08.28\00:13:09.75
James: And I see this, I mean
this is power packed right here
00:13:09.78\00:13:14.06
because we're looking
at it in the context...
00:13:14.09\00:13:15.42
of the Book of Revelation... but
I see this in a practical way
00:13:15.46\00:13:19.49
in our life today, I mean, when
I became a born-again Christian,
00:13:19.53\00:13:23.77
I was living in a
party house with my friends
00:13:23.80\00:13:27.30
and it was uncomfortable
for them... for me to be around,
00:13:27.34\00:13:31.74
it was
uncomfortable that I was there,
00:13:31.77\00:13:33.78
I wanted to be with them,
I wanted to witness to them,
00:13:33.81\00:13:35.88
but I was drinking my pop while
they were drinking their alcohol
00:13:35.91\00:13:38.35
and it was uncomfortable to them
00:13:38.38\00:13:40.02
and they were like...
they'd give me a hard time
00:13:40.05\00:13:41.55
and they'd...
"take it... " you know...
00:13:41.58\00:13:42.92
and they just didn't
want me there... just...
00:13:42.95\00:13:44.29
and I had that experience
within a lot of places,
00:13:44.32\00:13:46.99
and I think, with Christ...
it's just, it's just multiplied,
00:13:47.02\00:13:50.96
okay, let's move in
now to the trumpets,
00:13:50.99\00:13:53.13
the trumpets begin in
Revelation chapter 8 and verse 2
00:13:53.16\00:13:56.36
and what we're
going to see here is,
00:13:56.40\00:13:57.73
we're going to see a verse
that talks about the trumpets
00:13:57.77\00:14:00.94
and then immediately
we're going to take a detour
00:14:00.97\00:14:02.87
for a few verses and we're going
to go in a different direction
00:14:02.90\00:14:06.94
and then we're going to come
back to these trumpet verses
00:14:06.98\00:14:08.48
and then we've got to
understand what all that means
00:14:08.54\00:14:09.94
so what I'd like us to do,
Jason, you can start us out here
00:14:10.01\00:14:12.81
read verse two
00:14:12.88\00:14:14.55
and then we'll talk
about that just a little bit
00:14:14.58\00:14:17.92
and then we want to
read verses 3 through 5
00:14:17.95\00:14:20.62
and really get into
what's going on there,
00:14:20.66\00:14:23.29
so let's start
with chapter 8 verse 2.
00:14:23.32\00:14:25.66
Jason: Okay, "And I
saw the seven angels
00:14:25.69\00:14:28.00
which stood before God;
00:14:28.03\00:14:29.36
and to them were
given seven trumpets. "
00:14:29.40\00:14:31.23
James: Okay,
trumpets in the Bible,
00:14:31.27\00:14:33.54
what do they represent,
what do they represent?
00:14:33.57\00:14:36.14
Now there are a number of verses
00:14:36.20\00:14:37.81
and stories I want us to
go to because it's huge...
00:14:37.84\00:14:40.88
trumpets are huge, okay,
00:14:40.91\00:14:42.88
one of the things
we know about trumpets,
00:14:42.91\00:14:44.25
in the Old Testament,
00:14:44.28\00:14:45.91
trumpets were blown in
preparation for destruction,
00:14:45.95\00:14:49.12
Jericho... march
around... blow the trumpet,
00:14:49.15\00:14:52.02
march around...
blow the trumpet,
00:14:52.05\00:14:54.36
seven days they marched around,
00:14:54.39\00:14:55.72
seven days they
blew the trumpet,
00:14:55.76\00:14:57.09
on the seventh
day... seven times
00:14:57.13\00:14:58.46
and the trumpets blew
and down came the walls,
00:14:58.49\00:15:01.76
in Joel chapter 2,
trumpets are symbolically
00:15:01.80\00:15:05.43
representing the call of alarm,
00:15:05.47\00:15:07.60
"Look out, war, alarm... "
so, war, destruction, alarm...
00:15:07.64\00:15:11.97
Paul talks about it
and I've got a verse here
00:15:12.04\00:15:14.81
in 1st Corinthians
chapter 14 verse 8, he says,
00:15:14.84\00:15:17.41
"For if the trumpet
makes an uncertain sound,
00:15:17.45\00:15:19.95
who will prepare
himself for battle?"
00:15:19.98\00:15:22.85
So you've got battle,
you've got war, you've got alarm
00:15:22.88\00:15:26.42
but you also have
trumpets that were sounding
00:15:26.45\00:15:28.82
on the Day of Atonement,
calling people to repentance,
00:15:28.86\00:15:32.36
calling people to
a day of atonement,
00:15:32.39\00:15:34.03
in other words, in
battle, in judgment, in war,
00:15:34.06\00:15:37.17
you've also got a
call to repentance...
00:15:37.20\00:15:39.07
it's taking place
in the background,
00:15:39.10\00:15:40.94
the call to repentance,
00:15:40.97\00:15:42.30
and we're going to see this
in the context of the trumpets
00:15:42.34\00:15:44.54
because there's a place there
00:15:44.57\00:15:45.91
where it says, "And
they didn't repent... "
00:15:45.94\00:15:47.28
in other words, God was calling
to repentance through judgments
00:15:47.31\00:15:49.21
in Joel... it wasn't judgments
but they were called...
00:15:49.24\00:15:52.18
it was a call to repentance.
00:15:52.21\00:15:53.55
Jason: Didn't we read
a verse that compared...
00:15:53.58\00:15:56.12
it said
something as of trumpet...
00:15:56.15\00:15:58.92
so like, someone
heard the Lord's voice
00:15:58.95\00:16:01.16
and it sounded
like... "as a trumpet. "
00:16:01.22\00:16:03.19
James: That's
Revelation chapter 1 verse 10.
00:16:03.22\00:16:04.59
Jason: Okay.
James: "I heard a voice
00:16:04.63\00:16:06.13
behind me and it
sounded like a trumpet"
00:16:06.16\00:16:07.56
which is another verse
and we didn't read that
00:16:07.60\00:16:09.96
but there's another
verse that helps us to identify
00:16:10.00\00:16:11.87
the trumpets
are... the call of Christ,
00:16:11.90\00:16:14.34
calling us, trying
to get our attention,
00:16:14.37\00:16:16.60
trying to call us
back to repentance,
00:16:16.64\00:16:18.84
trying to warn us... alarm us
about things that are happening
00:16:18.87\00:16:22.61
in the world...
or in our own hearts
00:16:22.64\00:16:23.98
and calling us to
that Day of Atonement...
00:16:24.01\00:16:26.31
that reconciliation and
calling us to understand
00:16:26.35\00:16:29.82
you know... the
judgments are coming.
00:16:29.85\00:16:31.19
Ivor: Let's point out as well
00:16:31.22\00:16:32.79
that you guys would
know the story of Gideon,
00:16:32.85\00:16:35.12
and when the trumpets
were blown in that story,
00:16:35.16\00:16:37.36
you remember what happened,
the adversaries of God's people
00:16:37.39\00:16:40.96
actually turned their
swords upon one another,
00:16:41.00\00:16:43.20
so we pull all
these stories together,
00:16:43.23\00:16:45.80
you know, the falling of
the enemies of God's people,
00:16:45.83\00:16:49.24
the enemies of God turning
themselves on one another,
00:16:49.27\00:16:52.64
warning... in Numbers chapter 10
00:16:52.67\00:16:56.28
when the trumpets were
blown, it was a symbol...
00:16:56.31\00:16:59.61
it was a sign
for them to advance,
00:16:59.65\00:17:01.85
you know, to move forward,
00:17:01.88\00:17:04.09
so when we look at...
00:17:04.12\00:17:05.45
it's good for us to
look at all these instances
00:17:05.49\00:17:08.29
where trumpets are involved,
00:17:08.32\00:17:09.66
so that when we get to
the Book of Revelation,
00:17:09.69\00:17:12.16
we get to the seven
trumpets, we can see, okay,
00:17:12.19\00:17:14.76
which one of
these stories applies,
00:17:14.80\00:17:17.10
you see what I'm
saying... to these trumpets...
00:17:17.13\00:17:19.83
and we can begin to
find some kind of theme
00:17:19.87\00:17:22.54
as we begin to go
through the trumpets
00:17:22.57\00:17:24.81
so we can expect probably to see
00:17:24.84\00:17:27.28
some kind of powers falling,
00:17:27.31\00:17:29.68
or we can probably
expect to see judgment,
00:17:29.71\00:17:32.71
we can probably expect
to see advancing... war...
00:17:32.75\00:17:37.29
things of this nature
and maybe even hostile forces
00:17:37.32\00:17:41.62
turning upon each other, yeah,
00:17:41.66\00:17:43.66
so all these things give
us a little bit of insight...
00:17:43.73\00:17:47.23
kind of set the ground for,
00:17:47.26\00:17:48.60
"Okay, what should we be
looking for in these trumpets?"
00:17:48.63\00:17:51.43
Yeah... yeah.
00:17:51.47\00:17:52.80
James: I love that...
00:17:52.83\00:17:54.17
and the other thing
that it gives us insight is,
00:17:54.20\00:17:55.54
the seven churches
and the seven seals,
00:17:55.57\00:17:57.81
where did they
start historically?
00:17:57.84\00:18:00.28
Did they start with Babylon,
00:18:00.31\00:18:02.48
did they start in
the future somewhere,
00:18:02.51\00:18:04.88
what is the historical
setting for the first church?
00:18:04.91\00:18:07.72
What is the historical
setting for the first seal?
00:18:07.75\00:18:10.52
What is the
succession of events,
00:18:10.59\00:18:12.59
where are we staring in history,
00:18:12.62\00:18:14.56
where are we ending in history?
we know where are we ending...
00:18:14.62\00:18:16.29
we are ending in the
new heaven and the new earth
00:18:16.32\00:18:17.69
but where are we starting?
00:18:17.73\00:18:19.06
Where's the
beginning? That's a pop quiz.
00:18:19.09\00:18:21.26
Jason: I was hoping that
was a rhetorical question.
00:18:21.30\00:18:26.27
Yvonne: Laughing...
00:18:26.30\00:18:27.64
James: We want to
know... where we start,
00:18:27.67\00:18:29.50
where was the first
church, what did it represent,
00:18:29.54\00:18:31.01
what age did it represent?
00:18:31.04\00:18:32.51
Yvonne: Ephesus
was the first church.
00:18:32.57\00:18:34.04
James: Ephesus
was the first church.
00:18:34.08\00:18:35.41
Jason: They lost
their first love...
00:18:35.44\00:18:37.18
James: And what was the first
seal... the white-horse rider,
00:18:37.21\00:18:39.81
what age and time in
history did that represent?
00:18:39.85\00:18:41.92
Yvonne: Oh, I'm bad with this...
Jason: Yeah, I don't remember...
00:18:41.95\00:18:47.02
Ivor: Okay,
let's do it like this.
00:18:47.06\00:18:48.39
The seven trumpets
unfold at the altar of incense,
00:18:48.42\00:18:53.96
the seven churches unfold at
the seven-branched candlestick,
00:18:54.00\00:18:58.73
the seven seals unfold
at the Table of Shewbread,
00:18:58.77\00:19:02.20
all those articles of
furniture are found where?
00:19:02.24\00:19:05.67
Yvonne: In the Holy Place.
00:19:05.71\00:19:07.48
Ivor: In the
Holy place which means
00:19:07.51\00:19:08.84
that the priests that
ministered in the Holy Place,
00:19:08.88\00:19:12.28
was to minister at these
articles of furniture, how?
00:19:12.31\00:19:14.58
Simultaneously,
right, so if the first church
00:19:14.65\00:19:18.75
represents the
early church period...
00:19:18.79\00:19:22.26
Yvonne: Right...
00:19:22.32\00:19:23.66
James: You show
them... first church represents
00:19:23.69\00:19:25.03
the early church
period... da, da, da, da, da...
00:19:25.06\00:19:26.46
Ivor: The first seal, right,
00:19:26.49\00:19:28.86
represents the
early church period,
00:19:28.90\00:19:30.80
then...
00:19:30.83\00:19:32.33
the first trumpet...
00:19:32.37\00:19:33.94
Yvonne: Early church...
00:19:33.97\00:19:35.50
James: We're in
early church period...
00:19:35.54\00:19:37.04
that's where we
are. Ivor: Absolutely.
00:19:37.07\00:19:38.51
James: Here's another
way we can know because
00:19:38.57\00:19:39.91
let's read now, Yvonne,
let's read verses 3, 4 and 5.
00:19:39.94\00:19:43.58
Yvonne: Okay,
"And another angel came
00:19:43.61\00:19:46.05
and stood at the
altar, having a golden censer;
00:19:46.11\00:19:48.65
and there was given
unto him much incense,
00:19:48.68\00:19:50.85
that he should
offer it with the prayers
00:19:50.89\00:19:52.99
of all saints
upon the golden altar
00:19:53.05\00:19:55.52
which was before the throne.
00:19:55.59\00:19:57.16
And the smoke of the incense,
00:19:57.19\00:19:58.69
which came with the
prayers of the saints,
00:19:58.73\00:20:01.10
ascended up before god
out of the angel's hand.
00:20:01.13\00:20:04.13
And the angel took the censer,
00:20:04.17\00:20:06.10
and filled it
with fire of the altar,
00:20:06.13\00:20:07.90
and cast it into the
earth: and there were voices,
00:20:07.97\00:20:11.14
and thunderings, and lightnings,
00:20:11.17\00:20:12.81
and an earthquake. "
00:20:12.87\00:20:14.38
James: Okay, we have
sanctuary symbols yet again,
00:20:14.44\00:20:16.54
and the sanctuary
symbols we have here...
00:20:16.58\00:20:18.35
there are two articles,
00:20:18.38\00:20:19.71
there's the altar... and
then there's the golden altar,
00:20:19.75\00:20:21.35
well,
actually... there are three,
00:20:21.38\00:20:22.72
there's the
censer, there's the altar,
00:20:22.75\00:20:24.09
the censor and the golden altar,
00:20:24.12\00:20:25.45
now, the golden altar
was in the Holy Place,
00:20:25.49\00:20:29.19
so we know we're in
pre-1844... before 1844...
00:20:29.22\00:20:33.06
we believe
we're in Apostolic Age
00:20:33.09\00:20:35.16
simply because... that's
where we started in churches
00:20:35.20\00:20:38.03
and that's where we
started in the seals
00:20:38.10\00:20:39.43
and then we have this altar,
00:20:39.47\00:20:41.70
now, the only other altar
other than the golden altar
00:20:41.74\00:20:44.64
was the altar in the Courtyard
where the sacrifices were made,
00:20:44.67\00:20:48.01
the Lamb was slain for
the sins of the individual
00:20:48.04\00:20:51.41
that would come and that
altar represents Calvary,
00:20:51.45\00:20:54.38
so what we see in
symbolic language here
00:20:54.42\00:20:56.92
is we see this angel
that's standing at Calvary,
00:20:56.95\00:20:59.25
Calvary's altar...
00:20:59.32\00:21:00.66
and he's taking
incense from Calvary's altar
00:21:00.69\00:21:03.36
to the Holy Place
in the Sanctuary...
00:21:03.39\00:21:06.49
and mingling it there
with the prayers of the saints,
00:21:06.53\00:21:08.63
so what we have
here in symbolic language
00:21:08.66\00:21:10.77
is these articles of furniture
00:21:10.80\00:21:12.67
representing the
ministry of Christ
00:21:12.70\00:21:14.57
first at
Calvary... His death there
00:21:14.60\00:21:16.47
and then taking the
death... the incense...
00:21:16.50\00:21:19.24
the righteousness of Christ
00:21:19.27\00:21:20.61
from Calvary into
heaven, into the Holy Place
00:21:20.64\00:21:23.04
and mingling it with
the prayers of God's people,
00:21:23.08\00:21:25.61
now, let's break that down,
00:21:25.65\00:21:28.22
let's look at a couple of verses
00:21:28.25\00:21:29.58
that will help us
with that because,
00:21:29.62\00:21:32.42
the incense in
Revelation chapter 5
00:21:32.45\00:21:35.39
is identified as the
prayer of the saints,
00:21:35.42\00:21:36.86
now we're saying
this incense represents
00:21:36.89\00:21:39.83
the
righteousness of Jesus Christ
00:21:39.86\00:21:41.40
and the reason we
say that is because
00:21:41.43\00:21:42.86
it's mingled with the
prayers of the saints,
00:21:42.90\00:21:44.77
it won't make sense to
have the prayers of the saints
00:21:44.80\00:21:46.57
mingled with the
prayers of the saints...
00:21:46.60\00:21:47.94
so, look up a verse, Jason,
Ephesians chapter 5 and verse 2,
00:21:47.97\00:21:52.94
and then, I think we
referenced this verse, Yvonne,
00:21:52.97\00:21:56.31
already, but could you
look up Hebrews chapter 13
00:21:56.34\00:21:59.61
verses 10 through 12 is the
reference we're going to give.
00:21:59.65\00:22:03.92
So, Ephesians 5
verse 2, and then,
00:22:03.99\00:22:07.52
Hebrews chapter 13
verses 10 through 12.
00:22:07.56\00:22:13.06
Yvonne: Okay.
00:22:13.09\00:22:15.46
Jason: Ephesians 5:2,
okay, "And walk in love,
00:22:15.50\00:22:23.24
as Christ also hath loved us,
and hath given himself for us
00:22:23.27\00:22:26.27
an offering and
a sacrifice to God
00:22:26.31\00:22:28.58
for a sweet-smelling savour. "
00:22:28.64\00:22:30.15
James: Okay, that
"sweet-smelling savour"
00:22:30.18\00:22:33.11
is the incense, that
incense in Revelation
00:22:33.15\00:22:36.08
is the sacrifice of Jesus,
00:22:36.12\00:22:37.79
"walk in love as
Christ has loved us
00:22:37.82\00:22:40.19
and given himself as a
sweet-smelling savour... "
00:22:40.22\00:22:42.19
as a sacrifice
that's like incense,
00:22:42.22\00:22:44.43
so in Revelation chapter
8, that incense represents
00:22:44.49\00:22:47.56
the sacrifice of Jesus on
the altar in the Courtyard,
00:22:47.60\00:22:50.63
the sacrifice of
Christ on that altar,
00:22:50.67\00:22:52.80
and now it's been
taken from that altar
00:22:52.83\00:22:54.87
and it's being offered
in the heavenly sanctuary
00:22:54.90\00:22:57.44
so that means we have
Christ going to the Holy Place
00:22:57.47\00:22:59.97
in the heavenly sanctuary
00:23:00.01\00:23:01.54
and it's being
mingled with the prayers,
00:23:01.58\00:23:03.24
now, let's look at that in the
context of Hebrews chapter 13.
00:23:03.31\00:23:05.98
Yvonne: Verse 10 right?
James: Starting with verse 10.
00:23:06.01\00:23:08.65
Yvonne: And
going...? James: To 12...
00:23:08.68\00:23:11.02
Yvonne: To 12...
okay, "We have an altar,
00:23:11.05\00:23:13.36
whereof they
have no right to eat
00:23:13.39\00:23:18.26
which serve the tabernacle.
00:23:18.29\00:23:20.26
For the bodies of those
beasts, whose blood is brought
00:23:20.30\00:23:24.03
into the sanctuary by
the high priest for sin,
00:23:24.07\00:23:26.60
are burned without the camp.
00:23:26.63\00:23:28.24
Wherefore Jesus also,
00:23:28.27\00:23:30.67
that he might
sanctify the people
00:23:30.71\00:23:32.57
with his own blood,
suffered without the gate. "
00:23:32.61\00:23:35.28
James: All right,
let's stop right there,
00:23:35.31\00:23:37.08
that's good...
so Paul is saying,
00:23:37.15\00:23:38.91
there's an altar in the
earthly sanctuary system
00:23:38.95\00:23:40.72
and then we have an altar
00:23:40.75\00:23:42.08
and our altar is
where Christ was sacrificed
00:23:42.12\00:23:44.29
that He might
sanctify us with His blood,
00:23:44.32\00:23:46.42
so the picture here...
God is basically saying,
00:23:46.45\00:23:49.62
"Okay, I've got judgments,
I've got alarm, I've got warning
00:23:49.66\00:23:52.13
I've got call to
repentance, et cetera,
00:23:52.19\00:23:54.63
but before those
judgments sound...
00:23:54.66\00:23:56.53
before I let
those judgment loose,
00:23:56.56\00:23:58.37
I want you to see a
picture of what God is doing,
00:23:58.40\00:24:00.77
what I'm doing for you,
00:24:00.80\00:24:02.47
I'm taking the
sacrifice to Jesus
00:24:02.50\00:24:04.34
and I'm mingling
with your prayers,
00:24:04.37\00:24:06.17
so what are you praying for,
00:24:06.21\00:24:07.71
pray... what are
you praying for?"
00:24:07.74\00:24:09.08
And that's where...
that's where we leave off...
00:24:09.11\00:24:10.58
Ivor: Yeah, and I
think it's good that we...
00:24:10.61\00:24:12.18
you look at the seven seals
00:24:12.21\00:24:15.75
and it opens up with a
Lamb that had been slain,
00:24:15.78\00:24:18.55
right, and you look
at the seven churches...
00:24:18.59\00:24:21.36
the one who was
dead and... you know...
00:24:21.39\00:24:23.36
the first and
last... was dead and is alive
00:24:23.39\00:24:25.93
so each of these...
lets us know that...
00:24:25.99\00:24:29.36
that the focus that
keeps everything off
00:24:29.40\00:24:32.77
is the sacrifice of Christ,
00:24:32.80\00:24:34.70
and that's another
very important key because
00:24:34.74\00:24:36.77
what ends up happening is that
00:24:36.81\00:24:39.04
as we were talking a little
bit earlier that... the seven...
00:24:39.07\00:24:43.55
some people think
that the seven trumpets
00:24:43.58\00:24:47.22
start in connection
with the seventh seal,
00:24:47.25\00:24:50.85
so when the
seventh seal opens up,
00:24:50.89\00:24:52.75
then we have the
seven trumpets unfolding
00:24:52.79\00:24:55.29
so the seven
trumpets are yet... future...
00:24:55.32\00:24:57.39
James: In the future somewhere.
00:24:57.43\00:24:58.76
Ivor: Right, but
when we understand
00:24:58.79\00:25:00.20
that each of these
opening visions are
00:25:00.23\00:25:01.83
bringing our attention to the
sacrifice of Christ, the cross
00:25:01.86\00:25:05.67
and then seeing that,
00:25:05.70\00:25:07.44
"Yeah, we know that
from the Old Testament
00:25:07.47\00:25:09.14
when the priest ministered...
00:25:09.17\00:25:10.51
he was to minister
these articles simultaneously,
00:25:10.54\00:25:13.31
we can know
church one, seal one,
00:25:13.34\00:25:16.48
trumpet one... simultaneous...
00:25:16.51\00:25:19.61
church two... seal two...
trumpet two... simultaneous
00:25:19.65\00:25:23.75
and we just go down the list
00:25:23.79\00:25:25.12
and it's not that they're
going to match perfectly like...
00:25:25.15\00:25:28.49
but we have a general outline,
what know what we're looking for
00:25:28.52\00:25:31.69
we know the general time
frame and at least that helps us
00:25:31.73\00:25:35.03
to avoid making some
mistakes with the trumpets
00:25:35.06\00:25:37.87
that... you know... a
lot of people do make.
00:25:37.90\00:25:40.64
James: Absolutely, good point...
so basically, the opening vision
00:25:40.67\00:25:44.11
is giving us that connection
with the churches and the seals
00:25:44.14\00:25:47.74
and the connection
we're seeing here is...
00:25:47.78\00:25:49.44
the sacrifice of Jesus
00:25:49.48\00:25:51.18
so that takes us all the
way back to the Apostolic Age,
00:25:51.21\00:25:54.02
Jesus is
sacrificed, He goes to heaven,
00:25:54.05\00:25:56.89
He starts mediating,
00:25:56.92\00:25:58.25
what does He tell His
disciples before He leaves?
00:25:58.29\00:26:00.59
"I want you to pray,
I want you to pray... "
00:26:00.62\00:26:02.86
what are they praying for?
00:26:02.89\00:26:04.23
The Comforter, the Holy Spirit,
00:26:04.26\00:26:06.43
the Comforter... and so
their prayers come up...
00:26:06.46\00:26:08.50
but what kind of
prayers are they praying?
00:26:08.53\00:26:10.67
When He talks about
that in Acts chapter 2,
00:26:10.70\00:26:12.80
it talks about
how they were praying
00:26:12.83\00:26:15.14
and they all came together
with one accord... in one place,
00:26:15.17\00:26:18.34
they must have
been praying prayers of,
00:26:18.37\00:26:20.44
"Hey, Ivor, you know...
00:26:20.48\00:26:21.81
I was making fun of
your beard the other day
00:26:21.84\00:26:24.98
and I just want to
say, 'I'm sorry it's cool...
00:26:25.01\00:26:28.18
it really is cool... '"
00:26:28.22\00:26:29.55
and Ivor was
like, "Yeah, well...
00:26:29.58\00:26:30.92
James, I got something
that I need to tell you,
00:26:30.95\00:26:32.59
I can't really
tell you on the Set,
00:26:32.62\00:26:34.12
because it's really bad
00:26:34.16\00:26:35.82
but it's
obviously a flaw you have
00:26:35.86\00:26:37.59
but I really feel bad... "
00:26:37.63\00:26:39.23
and so they're praying these...
00:26:39.26\00:26:40.60
they're praying these
prayers for forgiveness
00:26:40.63\00:26:42.96
and their prayers... all
these faults are coming up
00:26:43.03\00:26:45.77
but they're mingled
with the sacrifice of Jesus
00:26:45.80\00:26:48.44
and then
something incredible happens
00:26:48.50\00:26:50.97
as a result of those prayers,
00:26:51.01\00:26:52.97
now, I wish we had
time to talk about it...
00:26:53.01\00:26:54.54
Ivor: Incredible cliffhanger...
00:26:54.58\00:26:56.18
Yvonne: Oh, another cliffhanger.
00:26:56.21\00:26:57.85
Ivor: I was looking at
you hoping... don't say it...
00:26:57.88\00:26:59.68
James: I was so excited to
say that... but that's the point
00:26:59.71\00:27:04.02
we were talking
earlier about faults,
00:27:04.05\00:27:05.95
God loves to have us come
to Him just the way we are,
00:27:05.99\00:27:09.92
sinful, helpless,
dependent, it is His glory,
00:27:09.96\00:27:13.29
take us up in the arms of faith,
00:27:13.33\00:27:14.66
to heal our wounds and
to just give us His Spirit,
00:27:14.70\00:27:17.20
that's what He wants and
when we get that... boom!
00:27:17.23\00:27:19.40
We've got... and that's
the picture we have right here,
00:27:19.43\00:27:21.27
faulty people asking for
the gift of the Holy Spirit.
00:27:21.30\00:27:24.57
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:27:24.61\00:27:26.61
James: All right, what do
we have? Who is... who is...
00:27:26.64\00:27:27.98
Jason: Well, I think
people should send their e-mails
00:27:28.01\00:27:29.51
if they have
questions to sss@3abn. org
00:27:29.54\00:27:33.25
James: Amen... amen...
00:27:33.28\00:27:34.62
who wants to close
us out with prayer?
00:27:34.65\00:27:35.98
Yvonne: I will...
"Father, thank you so much
00:27:36.02\00:27:37.89
for your presence,
your power, your anointing,
00:27:37.92\00:27:40.06
Lord, we just praise your name
00:27:40.12\00:27:41.46
and we ask you to
continue to guide us
00:27:41.49\00:27:43.73
as we open up these wonderful
chapters in Revelation,
00:27:43.76\00:27:49.16
thank you, in
Jesus' name, amen. "
00:27:49.20\00:27:50.67
All: "Amen... "
00:27:50.73\00:27:52.07
James: So we
left on a cliffhanger
00:27:52.10\00:27:53.70
but we're going to come back,
right back to Revelation 8 here
00:27:53.74\00:27:56.10
and we're going to see what
the rest of the story gives us.
00:27:56.14\00:27:58.44
Yvonne: Great. Jason: Amen.
00:27:58.47\00:27:59.84