You are not going
to believe this...
00:00:30.56\00:00:32.29
we... are on the last
church. Yvonne: Wow...
00:00:32.36\00:00:35.33
James: We have
reached number seven...
00:00:35.36\00:00:36.70
Jason: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:00:36.73\00:00:38.07
James: And it's going
to be just as interesting
00:00:38.10\00:00:40.24
and just as significant
as the other six have been.
00:00:40.27\00:00:42.57
We are at the end
of one cycle of sevens
00:00:42.60\00:00:45.87
in the Book of Revelation,
00:00:45.91\00:00:47.24
we've got three
more cycles to go
00:00:47.28\00:00:48.61
and they're going to
layer on top of each other
00:00:48.64\00:00:51.98
and bring out more
and more of the story
00:00:52.01\00:00:54.12
until they just magnify in
the final fourth section...
00:00:54.15\00:00:57.35
the final fourth cycle.
00:00:57.39\00:00:59.29
Ivor: Those are the
seven seals, the seven trumpets
00:00:59.32\00:01:02.32
and the seven plagues.
00:01:02.36\00:01:03.69
James: Then the...
the three that are to come
00:01:03.73\00:01:06.19
are the seven seals,
00:01:06.26\00:01:08.83
the seven trumpets and
the seven salvation signs.
00:01:08.86\00:01:11.13
Ivor: Ah ha... okay...
00:01:11.17\00:01:12.73
so you're not
including the seven plagues.
00:01:12.77\00:01:14.24
James: The seven
plagues are in there...
00:01:14.27\00:01:15.70
there are seven kings in there,
00:01:15.74\00:01:17.07
there are seven
thunders and the trumpets,
00:01:17.11\00:01:19.51
you know there's more than
just the four cycles of seven
00:01:19.57\00:01:23.08
by the four cycles of seven...
in the sense of epics...
00:01:23.14\00:01:27.02
from Apostolic Age down to
the end of time and beyond,
00:01:27.08\00:01:30.35
well, we need to
start with prayer
00:01:30.39\00:01:32.29
and then... as
we start with prayer
00:01:32.32\00:01:34.16
we need to get right into
00:01:34.19\00:01:35.52
the seventh
church... the Laodicean church,
00:01:35.56\00:01:37.19
Yvonne, would you
like to pray for us?
00:01:37.23\00:01:38.89
Yvonne: Sure...
sure... "Father God...
00:01:38.93\00:01:40.56
what a privilege it is
for us to come together
00:01:40.60\00:01:42.63
again to study your Word and
to glean these precious truths
00:01:42.66\00:01:46.77
from your Word
so thank you so much
00:01:46.80\00:01:49.30
and please be with
us, guide us, direct us,
00:01:49.34\00:01:52.04
help that this
discussion will magnify you
00:01:52.07\00:01:54.71
and show your love for us,
00:01:54.74\00:01:56.75
we bless your name this
day in Jesus' name, amen. "
00:01:56.78\00:01:58.71
All: "Amen... "
00:01:58.75\00:02:00.22
James: Jason, take
us into the verses here
00:02:00.25\00:02:02.62
in Revelation chapter 3
beginning with verse 14.
00:02:02.65\00:02:04.99
Jason: All right,
00:02:05.02\00:02:07.62
"And unto the angel of the
church of the Laodiceans write;
00:02:07.66\00:02:12.33
These things saith the Amen,
the faithful and true witness,
00:02:12.39\00:02:17.03
the beginning of
the creation of God;
00:02:17.07\00:02:20.94
I know thy works, that
thou art neither cold nor hot:
00:02:20.97\00:02:24.71
I would thou wert cold or hot.
00:02:24.74\00:02:28.34
So then because
thou art lukewarm,
00:02:28.38\00:02:31.01
and neither cold nor hot,
00:02:31.08\00:02:32.41
I will spew
thee out of my mouth.
00:02:32.45\00:02:35.22
Because thou sayest,
00:02:35.25\00:02:37.19
I am rich and
increased with goods,
00:02:37.22\00:02:39.32
and have need of nothing;
00:02:39.35\00:02:40.82
and knowest not
that thou art wretched,
00:02:40.86\00:02:43.19
and miserable, and
poor, and blind, and naked:
00:02:43.22\00:02:47.80
I counsel thee to buy of
me gold tried in the fire,
00:02:47.83\00:02:53.00
that thou mayest be
rich; and white raiment,
00:02:53.03\00:02:56.00
that thou mayest be clothed,
00:02:56.04\00:02:57.74
and that the
shame of thy nakedness
00:02:57.77\00:03:00.68
do not appear;
00:03:00.71\00:03:02.04
and anoint thine
eyes with eyesalve,
00:03:02.08\00:03:06.11
that thou mayest see.
00:03:06.15\00:03:10.35
As many as I love,
I rebuke and chasten:
00:03:10.39\00:03:15.29
be zealous
therefore, and repent.
00:03:15.32\00:03:20.20
Behold I stand at
the door, and knock:
00:03:20.23\00:03:22.60
if any man hear my
voice, and open the door,
00:03:22.63\00:03:24.97
I will come in to
him, and will sup with him,
00:03:25.00\00:03:27.34
and he with me.
00:03:27.37\00:03:28.70
To him that overcometh
00:03:28.74\00:03:30.31
will I grant to sit
with me in my throne,
00:03:30.34\00:03:32.77
even as I also overcame,
00:03:32.81\00:03:34.84
and am set down with
my Father in his throne.
00:03:34.91\00:03:37.71
He that hath an ear,
00:03:37.75\00:03:39.55
let him hear what the Spirit
saith unto the churches. "
00:03:39.58\00:03:42.78
James: The angel
of the Laodiceans...
00:03:42.85\00:03:45.72
the true
witness... it says here,
00:03:45.75\00:03:48.59
"the beginning of
the creation of God...
00:03:48.62\00:03:51.13
the amen, the faithful...
the true witness... "
00:03:51.16\00:03:52.96
and He is... He's
giving us true witness here
00:03:52.99\00:03:54.96
the Laodicean church
is the last church...
00:03:55.03\00:03:56.93
the seventh church... it
takes us from about the 1850s
00:03:56.97\00:04:00.27
all the way down to
the very end of time
00:04:00.30\00:04:02.70
and Laodicea
means, "people judged... "
00:04:02.74\00:04:04.94
it is the time of judgment
and it's interesting isn't it?
00:04:04.97\00:04:09.44
Because we're
living in a society today
00:04:09.48\00:04:11.51
where people just don't
like the idea of judgment.
00:04:11.55\00:04:13.75
Yvonne: That's
right, "don't judge me... "
00:04:13.78\00:04:15.42
James: "Don't judge
me... don't judge me... "
00:04:15.48\00:04:18.35
and yet, Jesus, now...
you should be like Jesus,
00:04:18.39\00:04:20.66
if you're a Christian,
you should be like Jesus...
00:04:20.69\00:04:23.12
Jesus wasn't condemning,
He was... He was loving...
00:04:23.16\00:04:25.56
He was
forgiving, He was merciful
00:04:25.59\00:04:27.10
and so Jesus is the one
that introduces Himself here
00:04:27.13\00:04:30.03
as truthful and
faithful witness,
00:04:30.07\00:04:32.23
He's going to be faithful to us,
00:04:32.27\00:04:34.07
He's going to be
truthful with us,
00:04:34.10\00:04:36.74
He is going to
tell us like it is...
00:04:36.81\00:04:39.91
now, when we talk
about being faithful
00:04:39.97\00:04:43.04
in the scenario of marriage,
in the scenario of romance,
00:04:43.08\00:04:47.15
in the scenario of relationship,
00:04:47.18\00:04:49.02
have you ever
been in a situation
00:04:49.08\00:04:50.82
where you are in public
00:04:50.89\00:04:54.12
and there's something
amiss in your appearance?
00:04:54.16\00:04:58.96
Maybe you've got a
little something on your face
00:04:58.99\00:05:01.43
you know... a little
something over here...
00:05:01.46\00:05:03.30
and you know, you
might be around friends
00:05:03.33\00:05:05.13
you might be
around acquaintances,
00:05:05.17\00:05:06.50
they're not going
to really say anything,
00:05:06.53\00:05:08.57
and it's kind of hard...
but if your wife is there,
00:05:08.60\00:05:11.01
if your husband is there,
00:05:11.04\00:05:12.67
I mean, if it's... if
it's my wife, if Risé...
00:05:12.71\00:05:15.51
and if I'm with
her, I'm going to say,
00:05:15.54\00:05:17.45
"Hey, honey, honey,
honey... take that off,"
00:05:17.48\00:05:18.95
or "you got a little
thing right here... "
00:05:19.01\00:05:20.35
or she's going to say,
00:05:20.38\00:05:21.72
"Hey, honey, honey,
you need to get that off,
00:05:21.75\00:05:23.08
you got to get that
thing right there. "
00:05:23.12\00:05:24.45
We are a little bit gun-shy when
it comes to correcting people,
00:05:24.49\00:05:28.19
when it comes... but God
is faithful, He's faithful...
00:05:28.22\00:05:31.46
Ivor: He's going
to tell you the truth.
00:05:31.49\00:05:32.83
James: He's got
to tell us the truth.
00:05:32.86\00:05:34.20
Ivor: The other day... I
was driving home from church,
00:05:34.23\00:05:38.07
after having preached a...
hopefully a great sermon...
00:05:38.13\00:05:42.44
and later on in the day,
00:05:42.47\00:05:45.84
I got a text from
one of my church members,
00:05:45.87\00:05:48.08
the church member said to me,
00:05:48.11\00:05:50.15
"Hey, I loved your
shoes today, new style... "
00:05:50.18\00:05:53.48
and I thought to myself,
"What is he talking about?"
00:05:53.52\00:05:56.25
And I looked down at my shoes,
00:05:56.28\00:05:58.79
only to discover in horror...
00:05:58.82\00:06:01.22
that I had worn two different
pairs of shoes for church,
00:06:01.26\00:06:06.26
and I thought to
myself, "No one told me...
00:06:06.29\00:06:08.96
no one likes telling me,
00:06:09.00\00:06:11.13
where were the
faithful witnesses?"
00:06:11.17\00:06:14.54
And for the guy that texted me,
00:06:14.57\00:06:17.91
if you're watching this, "Yes. "
00:06:17.94\00:06:22.04
So, you know, yeah...
often we see people that
00:06:22.08\00:06:26.18
we're kind of
embarrassed for them,
00:06:26.21\00:06:28.22
"Oh, I don't want to say
anything, it's not my place... "
00:06:28.25\00:06:30.59
but Jesus describes
Himself as the faithful witness,
00:06:30.62\00:06:33.46
"I'm going to tell you... "
00:06:33.49\00:06:34.82
you may be
like... "Ah... at first...
00:06:34.86\00:06:37.53
but it's for your good. "
00:06:37.59\00:06:38.93
He tells us for our good,
not to try to embarrass us,
00:06:38.96\00:06:42.50
not to try to
make us look foolish
00:06:42.53\00:06:44.97
but He... He's out to save us
00:06:45.03\00:06:46.57
so He's going to be as
honest as He is with us
00:06:46.60\00:06:53.61
to let us know,
"Listen, you're in danger
00:06:53.64\00:06:55.18
and this needs
to be corrected. "
00:06:55.24\00:06:57.41
James: In fact,
it's not only that
00:06:57.45\00:07:00.28
He's not wanting to embarrass us
00:07:00.32\00:07:03.05
but He doesn't
want us to be in there,
00:07:03.08\00:07:04.65
because... because it
says right here in the text
00:07:04.69\00:07:07.36
down below, it says,
00:07:07.39\00:07:08.72
and right here I'm
looking at verse 18,
00:07:08.76\00:07:11.69
"I counsel thee to buy of
me gold tried in the fire,
00:07:11.73\00:07:13.80
that thou mayest be
rich and white raiment...
00:07:13.86\00:07:15.33
that thou mayest be clothed,
00:07:15.36\00:07:16.70
that the shame of thy
nakedness do not appear... "
00:07:16.73\00:07:20.04
He doesn't want
us to be embarrassed,
00:07:20.07\00:07:22.54
He doesn't want us
to be seen as naked,
00:07:22.57\00:07:24.94
as without the
covering of His righteousness,
00:07:24.97\00:07:27.38
the gift of His righteousness,
so let's go through the text,
00:07:27.41\00:07:30.75
let's just start
from the beginning,
00:07:30.78\00:07:32.75
we've done the true
and the faithful witness,
00:07:32.78\00:07:34.28
and then it says
here in verse 15,
00:07:34.32\00:07:36.35
"I know thy works... "
00:07:36.38\00:07:37.72
Yvonne: Well, can we
go back, I'm sorry...
00:07:37.75\00:07:39.09
James: Yeah, let's go back,
sure, what have you got there?
00:07:39.12\00:07:40.86
Yvonne: Verse 14...
one of the things that...
00:07:40.89\00:07:42.46
there are some Denominations
00:07:42.52\00:07:44.49
that teach that
Jesus was a created being
00:07:44.56\00:07:47.83
and this phrase here,
00:07:47.86\00:07:49.83
"the beginning of
the creation of God... "
00:07:49.86\00:07:52.43
is often misinterpreted
as Jesus having been created
00:07:52.47\00:07:58.41
but we know that in Him was life
00:07:58.44\00:08:02.78
unborrowed, underived,
00:08:02.81\00:08:04.15
He has always been... "In
the beginning was the Word
00:08:04.18\00:08:06.61
and the Word was with
God and the Word was God... "
00:08:06.65\00:08:10.05
so we know that He was
there from the beginning
00:08:10.09\00:08:13.92
but this phrase is a
little misleading... so...
00:08:13.96\00:08:16.96
Ivor: Yeah, what it...
what the phrase is saying
00:08:16.99\00:08:19.69
is that creation did
not begin without Him...
00:08:19.73\00:08:22.40
Yvonne: Okay, so
He is the source...
00:08:22.43\00:08:23.83
Ivor: He is the starting...
00:08:23.87\00:08:25.20
Yvonne: He is the
source of creation.
00:08:25.23\00:08:26.57
Ivor: Exactly... He is
the starting of the creation.
00:08:26.60\00:08:28.37
Yvonne: So the key is in the
00:08:28.40\00:08:29.80
translation of the
word... "beginning... "
00:08:29.87\00:08:31.87
Ivor: Hmmm...
hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
00:08:31.94\00:08:33.27
understanding it not as...
He was the first to be created
00:08:33.31\00:08:38.45
but He was the
start of creation...
00:08:38.48\00:08:41.32
He started
creation... and without Him,
00:08:41.35\00:08:44.12
Creation would not have
been. Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:08:44.15\00:08:45.89
James: I'd like to add to that,
there's a verse in Revelation 13
00:08:45.92\00:08:49.42
that will also give
us some light on this
00:08:49.46\00:08:52.33
and it's one that is powerful
00:08:52.36\00:08:54.60
because Revelation 13 is a
very challenging chapter...
00:08:54.63\00:08:58.87
it's very
eschatologically charged with
00:08:58.90\00:09:02.74
the Mark of the Beast and these
two powers that are coming in
00:09:02.77\00:09:05.77
and forcing worship...
00:09:05.81\00:09:07.24
and in the middle of
that you can imagine,
00:09:07.28\00:09:08.68
"Well, where is... you
know, where is Christ...
00:09:08.71\00:09:10.25
where is the
gospel in all this?"
00:09:10.28\00:09:12.05
Well, He's smack
dab in the middle,
00:09:12.08\00:09:13.85
the lamb... the cross...
we talked about the lamb
00:09:13.88\00:09:16.48
as being a symbol of the
cross because it's introduced...
00:09:16.52\00:09:18.99
we'll see in
Revelation 5 as the lamb slain
00:09:19.02\00:09:21.42
and it says here in
Revelation chapter 13
00:09:21.46\00:09:23.89
and I'm looking here at verse 8,
00:09:23.93\00:09:26.49
that all that dwell upon
the earth shall worship him,
00:09:26.53\00:09:29.66
whose names are not written
in the book of life of the Lamb
00:09:29.70\00:09:34.04
slain from the
foundation of the world.
00:09:34.10\00:09:36.74
Yvonne: So... worship who?
00:09:36.77\00:09:38.11
James: To worship the beast...
00:09:38.14\00:09:39.47
to worship of the beast and
receive his mark and his image.
00:09:39.51\00:09:42.18
So... "all of them on
the earth who'll worship him,
00:09:42.21\00:09:44.38
the beast, his image...
whose names are not written
00:09:44.41\00:09:46.78
in the book of the lamb slain...
00:09:46.82\00:09:48.98
the book of life
of the lamb slain
00:09:49.05\00:09:50.65
from the
foundation of the world,
00:09:50.69\00:09:52.25
we know that Jesus
wasn't literally slain
00:09:52.29\00:09:54.39
at the foundation of the world.
00:09:54.42\00:09:55.76
Yvonne: Right...
Ivor: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:09:55.79\00:09:57.13
James: But before the
foundation of the world...
00:09:57.16\00:09:58.63
before creation started,
00:09:58.66\00:10:00.00
before this whole
beautiful picture...
00:10:00.03\00:10:02.76
that God has brought to
us in Genesis... took place,
00:10:02.80\00:10:06.10
there was this plan...
00:10:06.13\00:10:09.84
this "what if"
pause... if you will
00:10:09.87\00:10:13.48
and God said, "You know what?
00:10:13.54\00:10:15.11
There's the possibility
when we create free agency...
00:10:15.14\00:10:19.11
that there might be
what has taken place there
00:10:19.15\00:10:23.08
and that is the possibility
that they would choose
00:10:23.12\00:10:27.02
to go in a different direction
00:10:27.06\00:10:28.39
so before we put
this creation in place,
00:10:28.42\00:10:30.73
we need to have Plan B...
00:10:30.76\00:10:32.09
and that Plan B
is described here as
00:10:32.13\00:10:34.43
"the lamb slain before
the foundation of the world...
00:10:34.46\00:10:36.67
before the foundation of
the world... Jesus Christ... "
00:10:36.73\00:10:38.90
so the
beginning of the creation,
00:10:38.93\00:10:40.40
God... is the fact that He
was there from the beginning
00:10:40.44\00:10:43.04
and also the fact that the plan
00:10:43.07\00:10:45.77
for Jesus Christ
to become a human...
00:10:45.81\00:10:48.34
to become one with the human
race was there in the beginning,
00:10:48.38\00:10:51.01
that was created
from the foundation...
00:10:51.05\00:10:53.45
that was from the very
beginning of God's creation...
00:10:53.48\00:10:56.58
that plan for Jesus
Christ to become a man.
00:10:56.62\00:11:00.36
James: So, the beginning
of the creation of God...
00:11:00.39\00:11:04.39
"I know thy works, that
thou art neither cold nor hot:
00:11:04.46\00:11:09.96
I would that thou were"
get this... "cold" stop...
00:11:10.00\00:11:15.50
Ivor: Hmmm... hmmm...
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:11:15.54\00:11:17.44
James: "I wish you were
cold. " Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:11:17.47\00:11:19.84
James: Really?
Really? Really? Why?
00:11:19.87\00:11:25.35
now I understand why
He wishes we were hot...
00:11:25.38\00:11:27.98
but why would He
wish we were cold?
00:11:28.02\00:11:29.85
Let's just pause on
that for just a minute...
00:11:29.88\00:11:31.65
why would He wish we were cold?
00:11:31.69\00:11:33.15
Yvonne: It's a
place of discomfort.
00:11:33.22\00:11:34.66
James: Okay.
00:11:34.69\00:11:36.22
Yvonne: You're not
comfortable if you're cold...
00:11:36.26\00:11:38.99
James: Yeah, yeah...
you want to get warm.
00:11:39.03\00:11:41.06
Yvonne: Yeah... yeah...
it's a place of discomfort.
00:11:41.10\00:11:44.07
James: And the colder you are,
00:11:44.10\00:11:45.43
the hotter you want
to get, isn't that it?
00:11:45.47\00:11:46.80
even warm isn't good enough,
00:11:46.84\00:11:48.77
I've experienced that in
the few days I've been here,
00:11:48.80\00:11:53.24
72... is not good... I
want it at 74... 76... 77...
00:11:53.27\00:11:57.65
now I'm getting
hot... Yvonne: Yeah, yeah...
00:11:57.68\00:11:59.98
James: Now I'm getting hot...
so God is saying, basically,
00:12:00.02\00:12:02.18
"you know, it would be
better if you were cold
00:12:02.22\00:12:04.39
because if you're cold,
you'll feel your need. "
00:12:04.42\00:12:06.02
Yvonne: Right...
00:12:06.05\00:12:07.39
James: When you're
cold... you'll feel it,
00:12:07.42\00:12:08.76
when you're lukewarm,
you don't feel your need
00:12:08.79\00:12:10.13
but when you're
cold... you feel your need,
00:12:10.16\00:12:11.69
it's not that God
wants us to be cold,
00:12:11.73\00:12:13.43
God does not want...
00:12:13.46\00:12:14.80
cold... in practical terms...
00:12:14.83\00:12:17.33
in spiritual
terms... cold is lost...
00:12:17.37\00:12:19.23
cold is lost... okay...
00:12:19.30\00:12:21.44
it's out in the world...
it's lost... cold is lost,
00:12:21.50\00:12:23.41
so God doesn't
want us to be lost,
00:12:23.44\00:12:24.87
He doesn't want us to be
just like... out there...
00:12:24.91\00:12:27.94
but when we're in the
pig pen... feeding the pigs,
00:12:27.98\00:12:30.95
then we think, "Wait a minute...
00:12:30.98\00:12:32.98
wait a minute, wait a minute...
00:12:33.01\00:12:34.58
my Father... even his
servants do better than this,
00:12:34.62\00:12:38.75
I'm going to go back to Him
00:12:38.79\00:12:40.76
and He'll make me
as one of his servants,
00:12:40.79\00:12:42.86
I'm sure He'll make me
as one of His servants,
00:12:42.92\00:12:45.03
phew, I got that
wrong... " far beyond that.
00:12:45.06\00:12:47.13
So, yeah, so God would
rather have us be cold because
00:12:47.16\00:12:49.93
then we can feel our need
and that's what the goal is.
00:12:49.96\00:12:52.60
Yvonne: I was...
recently I was...
00:12:52.63\00:12:55.17
well, let me just
preface this by saying that
00:12:55.20\00:12:58.01
we too... even
though we're in ministry...
00:12:58.07\00:13:02.64
can... can kind of
move over to a warm place
00:13:02.68\00:13:04.68
and not be hot... on fire...
00:13:04.71\00:13:08.18
and I was
praying about something
00:13:08.22\00:13:11.75
and I just
wasn't getting an answer
00:13:11.79\00:13:15.29
I'm like, "Lord, I'm just...
I'm just not hearing you...
00:13:15.32\00:13:18.56
please... tell me what to
do, I don't know what to do,
00:13:18.59\00:13:21.53
I'm not hearing you, I'm not...
I don't know what to do... "
00:13:21.56\00:13:25.80
and I got this impression
that the Lord wanted me to be...
00:13:25.83\00:13:29.90
He wanted to stimulate some
kind of passion in me again,
00:13:29.97\00:13:34.01
the fire... let's turn
up the fire a little bit,
00:13:34.08\00:13:38.35
have me really seeking
Him harder to get the answer
00:13:38.38\00:13:42.62
because I wasn't
hearing and I was just
00:13:42.65\00:13:46.76
kind of praying about
it but I wasn't really...
00:13:46.79\00:13:49.49
like really laboring over it
00:13:49.52\00:13:51.96
and I think sometimes we can
get where we just... kind of...
00:13:51.99\00:13:57.47
lackadaisical... you
know... in asking the Lord,
00:13:57.50\00:14:00.37
"Well, could you
help me with this?"
00:14:00.40\00:14:01.74
No He wants... "Let's
turn up that fire a little bit,
00:14:01.77\00:14:04.94
I'm your first love... "
00:14:04.97\00:14:06.94
and so... that... I
think we should really
00:14:06.98\00:14:09.74
think about how
this applies to us too
00:14:09.78\00:14:12.65
even though we're
not "lukewarm" per se...
00:14:12.68\00:14:15.48
but we can kind of go
over into that lukewarm area.
00:14:15.52\00:14:19.85
Jason: Another interesting thing
about being like lukewarm...
00:14:19.89\00:14:22.89
when you're... if you
have one foot in the church
00:14:22.92\00:14:25.39
and one foot in the world,
you're not enjoying either one,
00:14:25.43\00:14:29.30
you're not...
Yvonne: That's true.
00:14:29.33\00:14:30.83
James: It's
miserable... Yvonne: Yeah.
00:14:30.87\00:14:32.20
Jason: You're not
enjoying God's kind of benefits
00:14:32.23\00:14:36.81
of being faithful to God
00:14:36.84\00:14:39.11
and then on the other
side you're not enjoying
00:14:39.14\00:14:42.51
what you shouldn't be
enjoying... your sin...
00:14:42.54\00:14:45.88
so, you have...
it's better to be hot...
00:14:45.91\00:14:49.18
Yvonne: Right.
00:14:49.22\00:14:50.55
Ivor: Remember where
this is all unfolding...
00:14:50.59\00:14:52.12
it's unfolding
within the context
00:14:52.15\00:14:54.59
of the seven-branched
candlestick, where God is like,
00:14:54.62\00:14:57.46
"Look, your fire is going
out, I want you to be hot...
00:14:57.49\00:15:00.83
you're fire is
going out, you're not...
00:15:00.86\00:15:03.13
that flame isn't burning
in you like it should be... "
00:15:03.16\00:15:07.10
that the flame is
dying... is what He's saying.
00:15:07.14\00:15:11.11
So, yeah, it's
crucial for us to understand
00:15:11.14\00:15:14.78
the condition of the
church in this time...
00:15:14.81\00:15:18.98
is really a
dangerous position to be in...
00:15:19.01\00:15:23.12
and He needs us to recognize it
00:15:23.18\00:15:24.75
and the problem is...
that the people in this...
00:15:24.79\00:15:28.59
in this portion of Scripture are
not recognizing their condition.
00:15:28.62\00:15:33.56
Yvonne: Hmmm...
hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
00:15:33.60\00:15:35.03
James: And I don't
know if you've noticed this
00:15:35.06\00:15:36.77
in... in our conversation so far
00:15:36.80\00:15:39.13
but unlike all
the previous churches,
00:15:39.17\00:15:42.00
we naturally relate to
the verses we're reading,
00:15:42.04\00:15:47.94
it's almost
"given" that this is us,
00:15:48.01\00:15:51.65
this is our
generation, this is our church,
00:15:51.68\00:15:54.32
I want to say generation...
this is our space in time...
00:15:54.35\00:15:56.79
this is it... we're just
reading this verse and going,
00:15:56.82\00:15:59.05
"Yeah, this is... yeah...
God would want us hot and cold,
00:15:59.09\00:16:01.92
you know how it is,
we get lukewarm and...
00:16:01.99\00:16:04.19
the other ones
were like, "that fits...
00:16:04.23\00:16:06.39
they were
persecuted and oh yeah,
00:16:06.43\00:16:07.76
they went
through this experience,
00:16:07.80\00:16:09.13
oh yeah, they went through
that open door, that's right...
00:16:09.16\00:16:10.80
we need to
remember, oh Smyrna, yeah... "
00:16:10.83\00:16:12.53
but we're reading
this... we're going...
00:16:12.57\00:16:15.24
"Yeah, that's...
that is us isn't it... "
00:16:15.27\00:16:17.91
oooh... you're just
reading and you're thinking,
00:16:17.94\00:16:20.71
"Oh yeah, that's... wow... "
00:16:20.74\00:16:22.31
and... but what I
love about these verses is
00:16:22.34\00:16:25.71
there's a remedy...
00:16:25.75\00:16:27.08
and the person
that's speaking this...
00:16:27.12\00:16:29.08
one of the worst rebukes,
00:16:29.12\00:16:31.05
I mean, when we
look at the churches
00:16:31.09\00:16:32.45
we talked about
how two of them...
00:16:32.49\00:16:33.82
Smyrna and Philadelphia
don't have any rebukes
00:16:33.86\00:16:36.39
okay, then we looked
at the other churches,
00:16:36.42\00:16:38.56
they have a number
of rebukes against them
00:16:38.59\00:16:40.66
and we saw the
sandwich, you know,
00:16:40.70\00:16:42.86
and truly...
they are sandwiches,
00:16:42.90\00:16:44.97
I love that because you've
got the good... the positive,
00:16:45.00\00:16:48.20
then you've got the
correction right here,
00:16:48.27\00:16:49.84
and you've got...
"And I'm gong to give you,
00:16:49.90\00:16:51.27
I'm going to give you
and I'm going to give you"
00:16:51.31\00:16:52.64
you've got the
sandwich in there,
00:16:52.67\00:16:54.01
of all the churches
though this church right here
00:16:54.04\00:16:58.01
receives the worst rebuke
00:16:58.05\00:17:00.32
but also receives
the greatest admonition,
00:17:00.35\00:17:03.95
"as many as I love, I
rebuke and chasten... "
00:17:03.99\00:17:07.46
but the worst rebuke is,
00:17:07.49\00:17:09.06
"You know what? You
make me want to throw up
00:17:09.09\00:17:11.83
you make me
want to throw up... "
00:17:11.86\00:17:13.93
I just want to
get... I just feel sick...
00:17:13.96\00:17:15.66
and now... the way that
I like to portray that is,
00:17:15.70\00:17:19.23
not so much that God
is just like... eeewww...
00:17:19.27\00:17:23.20
but so much as that
He is sick about that...
00:17:23.27\00:17:26.34
aren't there things that
people do... things that you do
00:17:26.37\00:17:28.98
that just... you're
just sick about it...
00:17:29.04\00:17:31.11
"Why did I do
that... why did I say that?
00:17:31.15\00:17:33.15
I'm just sick about that...
oh, I'm just sick about that,"
00:17:33.18\00:17:36.05
that's the picture of Christ,
"I just feel bad about this... "
00:17:36.08\00:17:38.99
and the reason why I think is
because as we move through this
00:17:39.02\00:17:41.89
we realize that...
and that's verse 16...
00:17:41.92\00:17:46.36
"So then because
thou art lukewarm,
00:17:46.39\00:17:48.03
and neither cold nor hot: I will
spew thee out of my mouth. "
00:17:48.06\00:17:50.40
That's the sickness...
that's where He's feeling sick
00:17:50.43\00:17:52.57
because we
realize... why is this?
00:17:52.60\00:17:54.87
"Because... " verse 17...
00:17:54.90\00:17:56.50
"thou sayest, I'm rich,
and increased with goods,
00:17:56.54\00:18:00.44
and have need of... " what?
00:18:00.48\00:18:01.81
Yvonne: "nothing...
" James: "nothing...
00:18:01.84\00:18:03.18
and you don't know that
you're miserable and wretched
00:18:03.21\00:18:06.51
and poor and
blind and naked... "
00:18:06.55\00:18:08.75
ah... now this is key right here
00:18:08.78\00:18:10.89
because there are only
two places in the Bible,
00:18:10.95\00:18:13.69
where the word
"wretched" is used,
00:18:13.72\00:18:15.46
there is Revelation
chapter 3 and verse 17
00:18:15.52\00:18:19.06
and Romans chapter 7,
those are the only true places
00:18:19.09\00:18:21.90
where the word
"wretched" is used,
00:18:21.93\00:18:23.57
and what's
interesting about this is
00:18:23.60\00:18:25.17
that the word is used in
those two places differently.
00:18:25.20\00:18:28.74
In this place, there are people
00:18:28.80\00:18:32.24
that are professing to
be followers of Christ,
00:18:32.27\00:18:34.74
"which increased with
goods and in need of nothing"
00:18:34.81\00:18:37.41
who don't realize
that they're wretched
00:18:37.45\00:18:39.85
they're not aware of
it but in Romans 7...
00:18:39.88\00:18:42.25
Paul is speaking
of his experience
00:18:42.28\00:18:44.35
and the
experience of the Christian
00:18:44.39\00:18:46.42
and he's saying,
"the law is good and holy
00:18:46.45\00:18:49.66
and just but me... whew...
00:18:49.69\00:18:51.79
I mean, I know what I'm
supposed to do but I don't do it
00:18:51.83\00:18:55.13
and I know there are
things I'm not supposed to do
00:18:55.16\00:18:57.43
but I keep doing
those... " and then he says,
00:18:57.47\00:18:59.03
"Oh, wretched man that I am... "
00:18:59.07\00:19:01.57
that's the
key... "that I am... "
00:19:01.60\00:19:04.11
the Laodicean
church... not wretched...
00:19:04.14\00:19:06.57
Paul... "wretched man that I am
00:19:06.61\00:19:08.58
who can deliver me from
this body of this death?"
00:19:08.61\00:19:10.98
And he says, "I thank
God... through Jesus Christ. "
00:19:11.01\00:19:13.35
Now, what Paul is doing here is
00:19:13.38\00:19:15.95
he's showing us the two
ways that we respond to Christ.
00:19:15.98\00:19:19.32
See, what happens is
when Christ comes to us...
00:19:19.35\00:19:22.16
the faithful
witness... and shares with us,
00:19:22.22\00:19:24.96
"Hey, there's
something on your...
00:19:24.99\00:19:26.76
there's something there on... "
00:19:26.80\00:19:28.46
"There is not! don't,
don't... don't touch me,
00:19:28.50\00:19:30.70
now get away...
there's nothing on my face,
00:19:30.73\00:19:32.83
there's nothing there...
" you see what I'm saying?
00:19:32.87\00:19:34.44
Or this, "Oh please, take it
off take it off, take it off. "
00:19:34.47\00:19:36.67
Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:36.71\00:19:38.04
James: you see... so...
Paul got... he's got that...
00:19:38.07\00:19:40.04
a lot of people think,
"Oh Paul, he was just...
00:19:40.08\00:19:42.04
Romans 7 isn't really
the Christian experience,
00:19:42.08\00:19:44.05
Romans 8 is the
Christian experience... "
00:19:44.08\00:19:45.78
well, that's because
we chaptered the Bible
00:19:45.81\00:19:47.88
but originally the
Bible was never chaptered...
00:19:47.95\00:19:50.02
there was never
Romans 7 and a Romans 8,
00:19:50.05\00:19:52.32
originally it was
just a continuum...
00:19:52.35\00:19:53.86
Romans 7 is the
continuum into Romans 8...
00:19:53.92\00:19:58.09
it just continues into Romans 8,
00:19:58.13\00:19:59.46
Romans 8 is the
continuum of Romans 7,
00:19:59.49\00:20:01.13
so, to get to Romans 8 you
have to go through Romans 7.
00:20:01.16\00:20:05.17
Ivor: To realize
your wretchedness.
00:20:05.23\00:20:06.94
James: Yeah, you have to
realize your wretchedness
00:20:06.97\00:20:08.30
to get... and
the Laodicean church
00:20:08.34\00:20:10.01
is stuck in Romans 7,
we could actually put them
00:20:10.04\00:20:12.27
in Romans 7
where they're saying,
00:20:12.31\00:20:13.94
"I know what I'm
supposed to do... "
00:20:13.98\00:20:15.38
I know the law is
good and just and holy
00:20:15.41\00:20:16.75
and even though I'm not
doing what I'm supposed to do,
00:20:16.78\00:20:18.91
shhh... don't tell anyone that,
00:20:18.95\00:20:20.28
and I know I'm not
supposed to do that
00:20:20.32\00:20:22.08
but shhh... don't tell
anyone I'm doing that... "
00:20:22.12\00:20:23.89
whereas Paul is not
like that, all he's saying...
00:20:23.95\00:20:25.65
"You know... this
is me... this is me...
00:20:25.72\00:20:28.56
honestly, this is me...
00:20:28.62\00:20:29.99
but I have a
hope, I have a Savior,
00:20:30.03\00:20:35.03
I have a husband, He's faithful,
00:20:35.06\00:20:38.17
He sticks by me, He loves me...
00:20:38.20\00:20:41.20
in my unfaithfulness,
he points things out,
00:20:41.24\00:20:43.54
He does it because He loves me
00:20:43.57\00:20:44.91
and He's going to help,
He's going to deliver me
00:20:44.94\00:20:47.18
and I'm going to go into
that Romans 8 experience. "
00:20:47.21\00:20:49.41
Ivor: I have a
remedy, there is a...
00:20:49.44\00:20:51.71
we talked about cross checking,
00:20:51.75\00:20:57.29
we've been cross
checking with every church
00:20:57.32\00:20:59.65
and we closed
off with Philadelphia
00:20:59.69\00:21:02.39
and we saw their
whole experience...
00:21:02.42\00:21:05.39
Adam and Eve...
perfection, they fall,
00:21:05.43\00:21:08.33
Smyrna... which is
what? Persecution...
00:21:08.36\00:21:10.90
that reminds us of
the Exodus in Egypt
00:21:10.93\00:21:13.87
or their time in
Egypt, we have...
00:21:13.90\00:21:16.77
Pergamos... which
reflects the time of compromise
00:21:16.81\00:21:19.94
within Israel once they
got into the Promise Land,
00:21:19.97\00:21:23.04
Thyatira... Babylon...
00:21:23.08\00:21:25.58
the Children of Israel
end up in Babylonian captivity
00:21:25.61\00:21:28.52
because of their rebellion...
then we have Jezebel...
00:21:28.58\00:21:31.12
we saw Sardis...
those coming out of Babylon
00:21:31.15\00:21:35.52
and beginning the
work of Reformation,
00:21:35.56\00:21:37.13
ties right in with Ezra
00:21:37.16\00:21:39.23
and the work of
the Children of Israel
00:21:39.26\00:21:42.06
leaving Babylon and
going back to rebuild
00:21:42.10\00:21:44.50
but they... they
stopped building,
00:21:44.53\00:21:46.17
you see
Philadelphia which summarizes...
00:21:46.20\00:21:48.77
which brings
together the people of God
00:21:48.80\00:21:51.51
to finish the house of God
00:21:51.54\00:21:52.87
relating to the
Millerite Movement
00:21:52.91\00:21:54.78
and then... this
is amazing... because
00:21:54.84\00:21:56.75
Jesus comes the second
time in the seventh church
00:21:56.78\00:22:02.58
so what would be the parallel
when Jesus came the first time?
00:22:02.62\00:22:07.12
What was the condition of Israel
00:22:07.16\00:22:10.86
when Jesus came the first time?
James: They didn't need Him...
00:22:10.89\00:22:14.20
Ivor: They were neither hot
nor cold... they were lukewarm,
00:22:14.23\00:22:18.43
so lukewarm that when Jesus
came, it was three wise men...
00:22:18.47\00:22:22.67
no one else was
even looking for Him,
00:22:22.70\00:22:25.74
there were wise
men from the east
00:22:25.77\00:22:28.74
that were prepared
for the coming of Christ
00:22:28.78\00:22:31.78
and so in the same
sense, we have to realize,
00:22:31.81\00:22:34.78
"Whoa, history is
being repeated... "
00:22:34.82\00:22:37.39
there are going to be
people... and here's the thing
00:22:37.42\00:22:39.82
the Jews put stock
in the fact that they...
00:22:39.85\00:22:43.43
"Hey, I've been a Jew
for X long... " right...
00:22:43.46\00:22:46.96
so what are we doing today?
00:22:47.00\00:22:48.40
You ever heard of "a 4G?"
00:22:48.43\00:22:49.76
That's a term for
Adventists, did you know that?
00:22:49.80\00:22:53.57
James: No, I didn't know that.
00:22:53.64\00:22:54.97
Yvonne: 4 G?
James: Enlighten us...
00:22:55.00\00:22:56.34
Ivor: Yeah. Yvonne:
No, unpack that for us.
00:22:56.37\00:22:59.04
Ivor: "I'm a 4th G
Adventist. " Yvonne: Oh...
00:22:59.07\00:23:01.14
Ivor: What? Fourth Generation...
00:23:01.18\00:23:02.54
Yvonne: Okay...
laughing... Ivor: 4 G...
00:23:02.61\00:23:06.31
so I have a special connection
with God because I'm 4G...
00:23:06.35\00:23:09.22
what are you? I'm 3G...
00:23:09.28\00:23:10.62
what are you?
I'm 2G... you know...
00:23:10.65\00:23:11.99
or "I'm 5 G... "
00:23:12.02\00:23:13.59
James: Oh, you
weren't raised in the church?
00:23:13.62\00:23:15.52
Oh, you guys are interesting...
00:23:15.56\00:23:18.66
Ivor: Really... there
is only 1G we are all...
00:23:18.69\00:23:23.00
God doesn't give us kudos
00:23:23.03\00:23:25.80
because our father
was an Adventist or...
00:23:25.83\00:23:28.10
no... 1G... everyone
of us must be born again,
00:23:28.14\00:23:30.97
everyone of us must
have our own experience
00:23:31.01\00:23:33.81
and can not put stock in...
00:23:33.88\00:23:35.61
"I know the truth... and
my family and their family"
00:23:35.64\00:23:37.78
so that's what the Jews
in Christ's time were doing,
00:23:37.81\00:23:42.35
and the remedy for that...
00:23:42.38\00:23:44.75
it's interesting
because there was a remnant...
00:23:44.79\00:23:48.06
within the people of
God so some were lukewarm
00:23:48.12\00:23:51.36
some were cold...
but there was a remnant
00:23:51.39\00:23:53.60
and even the remnant kind of
struggled but they had a remedy
00:23:53.63\00:23:57.60
and that remedy was the
cross, because think about it...
00:23:57.63\00:24:01.60
Peter thought he
was hot... Yvonne: Yes.
00:24:01.64\00:24:04.77
Ivor: "I'm not going
to deny you no way... "
00:24:04.81\00:24:08.11
it was not until his
encounter with the cross
00:24:08.14\00:24:11.38
and I believe, that's the
remedy for the Laodicean church,
00:24:11.41\00:24:16.25
Christ and Him crucified, right,
00:24:16.28\00:24:19.35
Christ lifted up as a remedy
00:24:19.39\00:24:21.09
because when we
fix our eyes on Christ,
00:24:21.12\00:24:24.26
"Woe is me... "
00:24:24.29\00:24:26.43
remember when John sees Him and
he falls as dead at His feet,
00:24:26.46\00:24:31.17
when Daniel sees him, he says,
00:24:31.20\00:24:32.53
"my comeliness was
turned into... " what?
00:24:32.57\00:24:34.50
Corruption...
he is acknowledging
00:24:34.54\00:24:37.61
that his condition without
Christ is miserable, wretched,
00:24:37.64\00:24:44.35
naked, blind...
so when we see Jesus,
00:24:44.38\00:24:47.22
we see ourselves
for who we really are
00:24:47.25\00:24:49.98
and we see Jesus
for who He really is,
00:24:50.02\00:24:52.72
and that is the remedy,
that is what opens our eyes,
00:24:52.75\00:24:55.79
that is what clothes
us with the white raiment,
00:24:55.82\00:24:58.79
we are washed in
His blood and sacrifice,
00:24:58.83\00:25:01.93
and it's
interesting that he says,
00:25:01.96\00:25:05.13
"I will cause you
to sit on my throne,"
00:25:05.20\00:25:07.44
right? "those who overcome"
00:25:07.47\00:25:09.30
but look... you
can't... there's no throne...
00:25:09.34\00:25:11.77
no crown... before the cross...
00:25:11.81\00:25:14.51
so to overcome...
we need the cross...
00:25:14.54\00:25:17.51
and then... the throne...
00:25:17.55\00:25:19.71
Yvonne: When... when...
we talk about... when...
00:25:19.75\00:25:25.35
here it talks about
how... because you say,
00:25:25.39\00:25:29.82
"I'm rich and
increased with goods
00:25:29.86\00:25:31.56
and have need of nothing... "
00:25:31.59\00:25:33.60
I think about Society, at large,
00:25:33.63\00:25:35.56
I think about our Country,
00:25:35.60\00:25:37.03
I think about the
fact that years ago,
00:25:37.07\00:25:38.93
we sent missionaries
out to third-world countries
00:25:38.97\00:25:41.77
to win souls for Christ
00:25:41.80\00:25:44.31
and now they need to
send missionaries here,
00:25:44.34\00:25:46.47
because the
third-world countries
00:25:46.51\00:25:47.94
are growing exponentially,
00:25:48.01\00:25:49.81
because they know
that they have a need,
00:25:49.84\00:25:52.28
but here, we are
pushing God out of everything,
00:25:52.31\00:25:56.15
we're pushing Him
out of just everything...
00:25:56.18\00:25:59.95
James: We're self-sufficient...
Yvonne: We're self-sufficient...
00:25:59.99\00:26:02.66
self-reliant...
it's all about us...
00:26:02.69\00:26:05.49
and in so doing, we
feel... we feel like...
00:26:05.53\00:26:08.70
we don't
need... what do we need?
00:26:08.76\00:26:10.23
But if we only knew
what we are missing...
00:26:10.27\00:26:13.64
if people only knew
what they were missing...
00:26:13.67\00:26:17.04
by not having God...
by not... you know...
00:26:17.07\00:26:20.18
by not knowing Jesus
Christ for themselves...
00:26:20.21\00:26:23.31
they would...
00:26:23.35\00:26:24.68
and that's what
we're all about...
00:26:24.71\00:26:26.11
just trying to share that.
00:26:26.15\00:26:27.48
Jason: Well, when
we turn on the news,
00:26:27.52\00:26:28.95
we see what a Society
without God looks like,
00:26:28.98\00:26:30.99
we see all these killings
and rapes and murders and...
00:26:31.02\00:26:35.72
just... I mean...
all kinds of stuff
00:26:35.76\00:26:37.93
that we see on the news,
00:26:37.96\00:26:39.29
that's what a Society
without God looks like,
00:26:39.33\00:26:41.60
they took God... they're
taking Him out of schools
00:26:41.63\00:26:44.00
and everything else
00:26:44.03\00:26:45.67
but they're introducing all the
things that are spoken against
00:26:45.73\00:26:50.11
in the Word of God...
00:26:50.14\00:26:51.47
and then you wonder why
all this stuff is going on.
00:26:51.51\00:26:54.51
James: Hmmm... and
then we're highly medicated,
00:26:54.54\00:26:57.48
Society is highly medicated...
with drugs, with sports,
00:26:57.51\00:27:00.92
with entertainment, all
of this stuff is calculated,
00:27:00.95\00:27:04.32
we'll see this in Revelation 16
00:27:04.35\00:27:05.82
with the unclean
spirits like frogs
00:27:05.85\00:27:08.02
it's all
calculated to medicate Society
00:27:08.06\00:27:09.99
so that we don't
feel the need of Jesus,
00:27:10.03\00:27:11.69
in some of these
third-world countries
00:27:11.73\00:27:13.36
where they don't
have that much stuff...
00:27:13.40\00:27:14.96
now they're catching
up... it's growing there,
00:27:15.00\00:27:17.00
the medication is
being shared more and more
00:27:17.03\00:27:19.37
because you know that's
why... that's the danger
00:27:19.40\00:27:21.70
that Satan sees to His kingdom
00:27:21.74\00:27:23.94
is that these
countries would feel their need
00:27:23.97\00:27:26.17
so he tries to soothe
them with this same medication,
00:27:26.21\00:27:29.11
we got about 30 seconds left
and I hate to close this out
00:27:29.14\00:27:31.91
but we're going to continue
with the Laodicean church
00:27:31.95\00:27:34.68
let's just close
with a word of prayer,
00:27:34.72\00:27:36.48
"Father I just want to
thank you again for your Word...
00:27:36.52\00:27:38.85
and for the
remedy in Jesus Christ...
00:27:38.92\00:27:41.19
and as we look to
Him... as we lift Him up...
00:27:41.22\00:27:44.46
we pray that He will
indeed become precious to us
00:27:44.49\00:27:47.53
and attractive to us and
that we will hear His voice
00:27:47.56\00:27:50.57
calling...
beckoning... outside the door
00:27:50.60\00:27:52.70
knocking for entrance
and that we would find
00:27:52.73\00:27:55.50
a way, by your
grace, to open that door,
00:27:55.54\00:27:58.27
to let Him in and to sup with
us and for us to sup with Him
00:27:58.31\00:28:01.61
so continue to guide us
00:28:01.64\00:28:02.98
as we study this
beautiful message
00:28:03.01\00:28:04.58
of the Laodicean church
that helps us to see our need
00:28:04.61\00:28:07.12
help us, guide
us, direct us we pray
00:28:07.15\00:28:09.68
and those watching,
in Jesus' name, amen. "
00:28:09.72\00:28:11.85
All: "Amen... "
00:28:11.89\00:28:13.22