We are beginning to
move into the seven churches
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into the Book of
Revelation I should say,
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we're actually, we're
actually getting somewhere
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in our last session we got
through the church of Smyrna,
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the session before
that, we got through
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the church of Ephesus...
so, we're now in Pergamos,
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we're now moving
to the next church
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or the third church in the
sequence of the seven churches
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and there's... there's...
there were four verses
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we covered in the
last session together,
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we have about six
verses in this session,
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the next session is going
to be even longer than that,
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so I'm hoping
that we can actually
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just move through this
entire section of Pergamos
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and understand it in
relation to the history
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and of course, in relation to us
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we also have a
question that came from
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the floor, right here,
that we want to touch on
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from our last
session concerning death
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so we want to touch on
that but before we do that,
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before we get into church,
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let's begin with
a word of prayer,
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Jason, would you
have prayer for us?
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Sure, "Dear Heavenly Father,
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thank you for
another day of study, Lord,
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please be with us as
we go through our study
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and help us to retain the
information that is discussed,
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in Jesus' name we
pray, amen. " All: "Amen... "
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All right, so,
Seth asked a question
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and he didn't
want to be on camera,
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he didn't want to get videoed,
so, we're just going to pretend
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that I'm Seth, could
someone get me a wig,
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Seth's hair is a
little longer than mine is
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and it was a neat question,
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we talked about the first
death and the second death,
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we talked about the fact
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that in the Bible,
there's really just one death,
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because the first
death is actually a sleep,
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but the disciples didn't
get it, in John chapter 11,
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Jesus tried to explain to
them that Lazarus, who had died,
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was actually sleeping
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because the first death is like
a sleep that you wake up from
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and that those who believe
in Jesus, never really die...
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and then He
asked us the question,
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and he asked
Martha the question,
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He asked us, "Do
you believe that?"
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and we didn't quite get
it so, the Book of Revelation
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which is the final
book of the New Testament,
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adds this phrase,
"The Second Death,"
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you don't find it
anywhere else in the Bible,
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it's only in the
Book of Revelation,
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"the second
death," but in reality,
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it's death, there's
sleep and there's death
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and death... when
you experience death...
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it's final... and
that's what the phrase,
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"second death" means,
the phrase, "second death"
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is descriptive of
the type of death,
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it's not sequential,
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so the question
that Seth asked was,
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"Well, if Lazarus died
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the first death, of course,
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and Jesus resurrected...
then he must have died again
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the second death,
is he going to actually
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be like... or if he was lost...
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would he
experience a third death...
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what's the third death?"
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And so the answer
to that question is,
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"Well, no, because Lazarus never
experienced the 'second death,'
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what he experienced was
going to 'sleep' a second time,
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and so it's not sequential. "
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Ivor: Or he died
the "first death" twice.
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James: He died the
"first death" twice...
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he experienced the
"first death" twice,
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yeah, so... so "second... "
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the word... the
phrase "second death"
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is not described
in a sequential...
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like, first death,
second death, third death,
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it's described
being an experience,
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it's an ultimate
experience of dying
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and not being resurrected,
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Yvonne: It's an
internal separation from God.
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James: It's an
internal separation from God.
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Ivor: It occurs at the
end of the 1,000 years,
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where the Bible specifically
says, "this is the second death"
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those who are not
found in the Book of Life,
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were destroyed in
that second death,
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so, if someone dies now,
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and by some
means, came back to life
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and then... died again,
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they still wouldn't
have died the second death
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because the second death occurs
at the end of the millennium.
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So, again, second death,
first death... it's not like,
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"Okay, if he died a
second time, it's...
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like in the case of Lazarus,
it is descriptive, as you say,
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no coming back
from the second death.
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Yvonne: Right...
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James: No coming back, good,
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okay, we're in
Revelation chapter 2
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we are in the church of Pergamos
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which begins in verse
12, and I'm thinking that
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there are a lot of verses here,
if we could read through them...
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Jason, if you could read
maybe the first three verses
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and then Yvonne, if
could read the next three?
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"And to the angel of the
church in Pergamos write;
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These things saith he
which hath the sharp sword
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with two edges;
I know they works,
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and where thou dwellest,
even where Satan's seat is:
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and thou holdest fast my name,
and hast not denied my faith,
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even in those days wherein
Antipas was my faithful martyr,
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who was slain among
you, where Satan dwelleth.
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But I have a few
things against thee,
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because thou hast there
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them that hold the
doctrine of Balaam,
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who taught Balac to
cast a stumblingblock
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before the children of Israel,
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to eat things
sacrificed unto idols,
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and to commit fornication.
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So hast thou also
them that hold the doctrine
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of the Nicolaitanes,
which thing I hate.
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Repent; or else I will
come unto thee quickly,
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and will fight against
them with the sword of my mouth.
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He that hath an ear,
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let him hear what the
Spirit saith unto the churches;
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To him that overcometh will I
give to eat of the hidden manna,
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and will give him a
white stone, and in the stone
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a new name written,
which no man knoweth
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saving he that receiveth it. "
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Okay, so, here is
a basic description
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of the next age of the church,
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the church has begun with the
outpouring of the Holy Spirit,
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they're on fire for Jesus,
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but they're in danger
of losing their first love
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and that's the apostasy that
creeps into that early church
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just toward the end
of the first century
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100 A.D. and onward and
then it goes through some
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fierce persecution which
culminates 303 to 313 A.D.
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under Diocletian
and that ends in 313
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and in steps a man by
the name of Constantine,
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now, Constantine's
rule beginning in 313
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is exactly the opposite
of what has been taking place
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in the Roman
Empire up to that time...
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Constantine actually
fled from the Emperor,
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he went to England
where his father was,
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he worked under him for a while,
he died... his father died...
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and he became very strong in
his influence with his soldiers
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and he... from that position...
was able to go back to Rome
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and eventually, take power,
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he had watched what
happened with the Christians
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and how they had been persecuted
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and how the persecution
had affected the empire,
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and he saw that the
blood of Christians was seed
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and so he watched the strength
of the Christian church grow
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and he decided...
rather than persecute them,
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"I need their
help, I need their aid,
00:07:04.89\00:07:07.29
I need them to be on my
side" and so Constantine began
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to restore to the Christians
their land and their rights,
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their personal
property, their churches,
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he turned... overturned
Diocletian's persecution
00:07:17.63\00:07:21.14
and he was able to gain
the support of the Christians
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but it was at a terrible cost
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because the Christians now
were compromising their faith,
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Constantine was a
Christian so... so...
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he was a
professed, nominal Christian
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but he still believed in a lot
of the pagan traditions of Rome
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and he wanted to
keep those in there,
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he was a Civil
Magistrate, he was the Leader...
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became the Emperor
there in the Roman Empire
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and so... this was the time
when the church was elevated...
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now the word "Pergamos"
means acropolis or elevation...
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the period that
we're looking at here
00:07:57.44\00:07:59.97
is about 313 A.D. to
538 A.D. and it's a time...
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in the age of Constantine,
00:08:04.48\00:08:06.82
when the church is elevated
in the status in the world,
00:08:06.85\00:08:10.05
it's a time when that elevation
comes with a terrible cost
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and the cost is compromise
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and that's what we
see taking place here
00:08:15.26\00:08:17.63
in this phase of
the Christian church.
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Yvonne: And is that not the
doctrine of the Nicolaitanes?
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James: The
doctrine of Nicolaitanes
00:08:22.63\00:08:24.63
includes compromise.
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Ivor: So, it set the stage
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for what comes in
that third church period,
00:08:28.60\00:08:32.21
So, remember,
when we talked about...
00:08:32.24\00:08:34.38
the second church
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where there was
persecution going on
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and you know, under persecution,
we're more apt to be faithful
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we're being persecuted...
we're being faithful...
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but as soon as
Constantine comes in
00:08:43.35\00:08:45.95
and he elevates
the church and says,
00:08:45.99\00:08:48.52
"Hey, you know what? No
more persecution for you... "
00:08:48.56\00:08:50.33
and things start
looking "up" for the church,
00:08:50.36\00:08:53.60
this is where you
see... it's interesting...
00:08:53.63\00:08:56.60
that under the...
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under the second
church... he's like...
00:08:58.50\00:08:59.87
"I look there... those who say
they're Jews and are not... "
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where are they when
persecution is going on?
00:09:02.00\00:09:04.11
They're compromising...
00:09:04.14\00:09:06.17
now when compromise...
00:09:06.21\00:09:08.34
when Constantine
comes up on the scene
00:09:08.38\00:09:11.85
and Christianity is elevated...
00:09:11.91\00:09:13.31
guess who are the ones
that come to the front...
00:09:13.38\00:09:15.45
to the forefront to
seek positions of...
00:09:15.48\00:09:19.65
"Hey, we can help you
and you want to do this...
00:09:19.69\00:09:22.42
okay... yeah... we're
willing to compromise"
00:09:22.46\00:09:25.09
these were the ones that
were already compromising
00:09:25.16\00:09:28.50
under that second church
period so now you have this
00:09:28.53\00:09:31.83
"marrying" if you
will... of Church and State
00:09:31.87\00:09:37.44
under this man named Constantine
00:09:37.47\00:09:40.28
and what the people
actually end up doing,
00:09:40.31\00:09:43.95
is they began to
put more trust in a king
00:09:43.98\00:09:47.55
instead of their
Priest in heaven.
00:09:47.58\00:09:50.42
So they began to put emphasis...
00:09:50.45\00:09:52.75
"we're going to trust Rome...
00:09:52.79\00:09:55.02
Rome is going to
be our protector"
00:09:55.06\00:09:56.42
well, wait a minute, I
mean, talk about a love story...
00:09:56.46\00:09:59.19
"Guys, I'm supposed
to be your protector,
00:09:59.26\00:10:02.60
what do you mean
'Rome is now marrying you,'
00:10:02.63\00:10:05.97
wait, you're marrying who? Rome?
00:10:06.00\00:10:07.74
wait a minute, I'm your
husband, I'm your protector. "
00:10:07.77\00:10:12.17
And what they're saying is,
00:10:12.24\00:10:13.58
"Well, you didn't do a
good job of protecting us...
00:10:13.61\00:10:14.94
so... we're going to... "
00:10:14.98\00:10:16.31
this is the what... this
is the "love story drama"
00:10:16.34\00:10:20.98
unfolding before us is now...
00:10:21.05\00:10:22.55
"she seeks to marry
one other than her husband"
00:10:22.58\00:10:25.95
Jason: That sounds
like an affair doesn't it?
00:10:25.99\00:10:28.52
It sounds like they're
truly getting divorced,
00:10:28.56\00:10:30.73
it sounds like, "well,
if they're compromising,
00:10:30.76\00:10:32.69
then they're having an
affair, they're cheating... "
00:10:32.73\00:10:34.76
they're kind of just...
"well, we'll take some of this
00:10:34.80\00:10:36.80
but we'll go ahead and
get some of that too. "
00:10:36.83\00:10:38.80
Ivor: Absolutely, absolutely.
00:10:38.83\00:10:40.74
James: And we see this
in the Old Testament again,
00:10:40.77\00:10:42.70
we see it in the Book of
Hosea, it's really clear...
00:10:42.74\00:10:44.61
"They went to their lovers...
00:10:44.67\00:10:47.14
and they didn't know
that I gave them the corn
00:10:47.18\00:10:48.94
and wine and the
oil, says the Lord..
00:10:48.98\00:10:50.35
and you were
supposed to call me 'husband'"
00:10:50.38\00:10:53.78
and the whole
history of ancient Israel
00:10:53.82\00:10:57.09
is being repeated here in the
New Testament Christian Church,
00:10:57.12\00:11:00.09
in the ages of these churches...
we move through these churches,
00:11:00.12\00:11:03.02
we see that same
history being repeated,
00:11:03.09\00:11:05.53
so what about some
of these symbols...
00:11:05.56\00:11:08.20
let's break some of
these down, verse 13,
00:11:08.23\00:11:10.57
"I know thy works.
and where thou dwellest,
00:11:10.60\00:11:12.87
even where Satan's seat
is: and you hold fast my name,
00:11:12.90\00:11:17.84
and yet not denied my faith,
00:11:17.87\00:11:19.21
even in those days wherein
Antipas was my faithful martyr,
00:11:19.24\00:11:22.81
who was slain among
you, where Satan dwells... "
00:11:22.84\00:11:25.11
so what is this
talking about historically?
00:11:25.15\00:11:27.78
Yvonne and
Jason: I have no idea,
00:11:27.82\00:11:31.85
break it down for us would you?
00:11:31.89\00:11:35.92
laughter...
00:11:35.96\00:11:38.83
Jason: We'll be here all day...
00:11:38.86\00:11:40.20
more laughter...
00:11:40.23\00:11:42.96
Ivor: So what
we're seeing here is,
00:11:43.00\00:11:46.10
when the Bible says,
"where Satan's seed is"
00:11:46.13\00:11:49.24
Satan has set up
his... his... his authority
00:11:49.27\00:11:52.31
at this point in time,
this is where Satan's seed is
00:11:52.34\00:11:56.21
and I think... we may tie
this a little bit later but...
00:11:56.24\00:11:59.71
James: To the third trumpet...
00:11:59.75\00:12:01.18
Ivor: To the third trumpet...
00:12:01.22\00:12:02.58
James: where the angel
comes down from heaven...
00:12:02.62\00:12:03.95
Ivor: We were
talking about... oh, oh...
00:12:03.99\00:12:07.09
yes, yeah, yeah... but
when we look at this...
00:12:07.12\00:12:10.56
setting up of...
00:12:10.59\00:12:11.93
it's almost as though Satan
is now setting up his authority
00:12:11.96\00:12:15.23
right, that he did not
have in church number 1,
00:12:15.26\00:12:18.13
and church number 2.
00:12:18.17\00:12:19.50
James: Right... Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:12:19.53\00:12:20.87
Ivor: All of a
sudden you see a seat there
00:12:20.90\00:12:22.67
and a cycle... okay,
what's happening here?
00:12:22.70\00:12:24.57
This is like a precursor
00:12:24.61\00:12:26.01
of something that's
coming... down the road...
00:12:26.07\00:12:27.41
James: He's coming in now
00:12:27.44\00:12:28.84
to the church and establishing
his seat in the church.
00:12:28.88\00:12:30.48
Ivor: Exactly...
because remember,
00:12:30.51\00:12:31.88
according to 2nd Thessalonians,
00:12:31.91\00:12:33.25
"a man of sin will ultimately
sit in the temple of God
00:12:33.28\00:12:37.39
showing
himself... that he is God. "
00:12:37.42\00:12:40.52
So Satan's seat
here is being set up...
00:12:40.56\00:12:43.59
now what's interesting
is that in the same verse
00:12:43.63\00:12:46.93
it talks about...
"Thou hast held fast my name,
00:12:46.96\00:12:50.20
and hast not denied my faith,
even in those days wherein
00:12:50.23\00:12:52.63
Antipas was my faithful
martyr, who was slain... "
00:12:52.67\00:12:55.30
so there's no historical record
of a man by the name of Antipas.
00:12:55.34\00:12:59.04
James: There's no
historical record.
00:12:59.07\00:13:00.48
Ivor: Right, however,
when we look at names...
00:13:00.51\00:13:03.28
especially as it
relates to the seven churches,
00:13:03.31\00:13:06.05
we see that these
names are symbolic...
00:13:06.11\00:13:07.52
Balaam... Old Testament figure
00:13:07.55\00:13:10.42
but Balaam is
not alive in the...
00:13:10.49\00:13:13.29
Jezebel... which we'll
see in church number four.
00:13:13.32\00:13:15.72
James: And Balac...
00:13:15.79\00:13:17.36
Ivor: Yeah, Balac...
these names all represent
00:13:17.39\00:13:20.70
something... okay...
00:13:20.73\00:13:22.76
and so just as
Jezebel is not alive
00:13:22.80\00:13:25.10
during the fourth church
period but she is described...
00:13:25.13\00:13:27.40
there's a symbol
behind the word "Jezebel"
00:13:27.44\00:13:29.74
so Antipas... is actually two
words being brought together,
00:13:29.77\00:13:33.88
Anti... against...
and Pa... Pa's... Fathers
00:13:33.91\00:13:39.25
so here you have
this... this... this symbol...
00:13:39.28\00:13:45.75
of someone who is
against the Fathers...
00:13:45.79\00:13:49.26
and you'll remember that
it was this time in history
00:13:49.32\00:13:53.29
where we begin to hear about
these so called "Church Fathers"
00:13:53.33\00:13:58.10
who are now
teaching things that...
00:13:58.13\00:14:00.70
or claiming to have
power over the church
00:14:00.74\00:14:05.21
an authority over
the church... eminence...
00:14:05.24\00:14:09.68
James: Yeah, John
warned about those
00:14:09.71\00:14:11.78
who wanted
preeminence in the church
00:14:11.81\00:14:13.15
and if you can imagine...
00:14:13.18\00:14:14.52
Ivor: Pergamos...
James: Yes, yes...
00:14:14.55\00:14:16.02
Ivor: exalting...
00:14:16.05\00:14:17.39
James: Yes, Paul
warned about people who would
00:14:17.42\00:14:19.79
draw disciples after themselves
00:14:19.85\00:14:21.72
so that they
could exalt themselves,
00:14:21.76\00:14:23.09
again about the "man
of sin" exalting himself,
00:14:23.12\00:14:25.16
and so you have this... this...
00:14:25.19\00:14:27.50
John... to me... is
the most significant
00:14:27.53\00:14:30.27
because he's
writing in his letter...
00:14:30.30\00:14:32.93
and I'm just going to
find it here real quick,
00:14:32.97\00:14:34.47
just to read it,
he's writing his letter,
00:14:34.50\00:14:37.04
now he's on the Isle of Patmos
00:14:37.07\00:14:38.77
and he is writing
to the church there,
00:14:38.81\00:14:44.91
and... here he is...
he's an aged disciple...
00:14:44.95\00:14:48.52
the disciple that Jesus loved...
00:14:48.55\00:14:49.98
he's been through
everything with Christ
00:14:50.02\00:14:52.05
and then gone through
everything with the early church
00:14:52.12\00:14:53.99
and then God has given
him the Book of Revelation,
00:14:54.02\00:14:55.59
he's writing that... and I
read these words so many times
00:14:55.62\00:14:57.73
and I just
couldn't believe this,
00:14:57.76\00:14:59.13
I think it's the
third epistle here,
00:14:59.16\00:15:02.83
"I wrote unto the
church but Diotrephes,
00:15:02.86\00:15:06.43
who loveth to have the
preeminence among them,
00:15:06.50\00:15:09.24
receives us not. "
00:15:09.27\00:15:11.74
What? I'm writing to the church,
00:15:11.77\00:15:14.81
this is 3rd John
and it's verse 9,
00:15:14.84\00:15:17.81
he's writing to the church,
"I'm a disciple of Christ,
00:15:17.85\00:15:21.18
I'm an Apostle of
Christ, I've known Him forever,
00:15:21.25\00:15:24.12
I'm writing to the
church and there's someone there
00:15:24.15\00:15:26.86
who wants to have
the preeminence...
00:15:26.89\00:15:28.26
he won't receive me...
he won't receive us... "
00:15:28.29\00:15:30.26
when I read this...
and every time I read it
00:15:30.29\00:15:32.23
I just think,
"How could that be?
00:15:32.26\00:15:34.30
Here's a man who
walked with Christ
00:15:34.33\00:15:36.23
and there are
people in the church
00:15:36.26\00:15:38.10
who won't receive him right in
his day when he is still alive"
00:15:38.13\00:15:41.47
this is taking
place... now this development...
00:15:41.50\00:15:44.17
so what's happening is...
00:15:44.21\00:15:45.54
when it says that Satan's
seat is being established
00:15:45.57\00:15:47.58
in the church,
it's talking about
00:15:47.61\00:15:50.15
what is
Satan's... what is his seat?
00:15:50.18\00:15:52.68
What was Satan wanting,
well he says in Isaiah 14...
00:15:52.71\00:15:55.98
he says, "I want to sit
in the sides of the North
00:15:56.02\00:15:59.05
I want to be like the most High,
00:15:59.09\00:16:01.42
I want worship, I
want preeminence... "
00:16:01.49\00:16:04.96
Well, he didn't really
want to be like the Most High
00:16:04.99\00:16:07.23
because the "most
High" is like John...
00:16:07.30\00:16:08.76
the "most High"
is not like these men
00:16:08.80\00:16:11.27
who were seeking the preeminence
00:16:11.30\00:16:13.74
so to be like the "most
High" is to be humble...
00:16:13.77\00:16:16.64
but... but... he wanted
the place and the authority
00:16:16.67\00:16:19.51
and so when it
says, "Satan's seat... "
00:16:19.54\00:16:21.28
it's talking
about the very thing
00:16:21.31\00:16:22.84
that Satan wanted in Isaiah 14,
00:16:22.88\00:16:24.28
verses 12 through
14... he wanted authority,
00:16:24.31\00:16:27.28
he wanted
preeminence, he wanted...
00:16:27.32\00:16:28.65
that's what's taking place here
00:16:28.68\00:16:30.09
as the church compromises...
00:16:30.12\00:16:31.45
people come
in... they're saying,
00:16:31.49\00:16:32.82
"Oh we don't have to go...
undergo persecution anymore... "
00:16:32.85\00:16:34.89
this is great... we
can be Christians...
00:16:34.92\00:16:36.42
and we can prosper and
we can have the preeminence
00:16:36.46\00:16:39.29
that our hearts desire...
our natural hearts desire...
00:16:39.33\00:16:42.20
and then there are
people who are saying,
00:16:42.23\00:16:43.77
"No, we're against this...
we're against these fathers...
00:16:43.80\00:16:46.63
these... these... false figures
00:16:46.67\00:16:48.10
that are 'saying'
they're Christian...
00:16:48.17\00:16:49.84
even from John's
time and coming in here...
00:16:49.87\00:16:51.67
and they don't have
the spirit of Christ... "
00:16:51.71\00:16:53.44
as John says in another verse,
00:16:53.48\00:16:54.84
"There are many Antichrists
00:16:54.88\00:16:56.21
that are coming in the
world... many Antichrists... "
00:16:56.24\00:16:58.05
Ivor: So remember, Paul,
00:16:58.08\00:16:59.41
when he's writing his
letter to the seven churches,
00:16:59.45\00:17:02.18
has been warning,
"Watch out for these guys... "
00:17:02.22\00:17:04.95
right now...
Paul's writings were
00:17:04.99\00:17:06.79
hundreds of years
earlier now, right?
00:17:06.82\00:17:08.72
Now we're
beginning to see the fruit
00:17:08.76\00:17:10.56
of what Paul was warning about
in those letters to the seven...
00:17:10.59\00:17:15.16
in his letters to
the seven churches
00:17:15.20\00:17:17.13
we are beginning
to see that fruition
00:17:17.17\00:17:19.03
of what Paul was
talking about, "man of sin...
00:17:19.07\00:17:21.97
sitting in the Temple of God...
showing himself that he is God,"
00:17:22.00\00:17:25.04
these... the
desire for preeminence
00:17:25.07\00:17:28.14
and division coming in...
00:17:28.21\00:17:30.28
we're seeing these
things being fulfilled here.
00:17:30.31\00:17:31.95
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:17:31.98\00:17:33.31
Jason: I had a
question... okay going back to
00:17:33.35\00:17:35.65
Antipas... does that...?
00:17:35.68\00:17:37.95
Ivor: Antipas...
00:17:37.99\00:17:39.59
Jason: Okay, Antipas, like...
00:17:39.62\00:17:42.79
from reading
that, how do you know
00:17:42.82\00:17:45.03
that there's nobody in history,
00:17:45.06\00:17:47.16
like where did
you get that from?
00:17:47.20\00:17:48.96
James: Good question...
00:17:49.00\00:17:50.57
Ivor: Yeah, so...
as you look at the...
00:17:50.60\00:17:52.57
here's a good thing to...
00:17:52.63\00:17:54.40
when you're studying
the Book of Revelation,
00:17:54.44\00:17:56.00
history is
going to be important,
00:17:56.07\00:17:57.67
the witness of history
is going to be important,
00:17:57.71\00:18:01.64
when... also... it's also
good to have commentaries...
00:18:01.71\00:18:06.35
so you can kind of
glean from other scholars
00:18:06.38\00:18:10.52
historical scholars,
scholars on prophecy...
00:18:10.55\00:18:14.62
scholars on
history and see okay,
00:18:14.69\00:18:16.73
"What have they said
00:18:16.76\00:18:18.73
when it comes to
this particular verse?"
00:18:18.76\00:18:20.26
And then you've
got to take the good
00:18:20.30\00:18:22.30
and reject the
bad... accept the good
00:18:22.33\00:18:23.83
and so, historically speaking...
00:18:23.87\00:18:27.14
as you look at
all these figures,
00:18:27.17\00:18:29.67
you can see reference or record
00:18:29.70\00:18:32.17
to the existence
of certain characters.
00:18:32.21\00:18:34.91
Antipas... there's no
record or existence...
00:18:34.94\00:18:37.65
so we... we're just left with...
00:18:37.68\00:18:39.95
"Okay, who is this Antipas?
00:18:39.98\00:18:41.32
It sounds like this would
be someone that everyone knew,
00:18:41.38\00:18:43.59
"His faithful martyr... "
00:18:43.65\00:18:44.99
but you have no record
of him in the New Testament,
00:18:45.02\00:18:47.32
and so... again...
when you're looking at
00:18:47.36\00:18:49.59
The Book of
Revelation and then you...
00:18:49.62\00:18:51.79
you see... okay... Jezebel...
00:18:51.83\00:18:53.50
was a real
person but she's not...
00:18:53.53\00:18:56.03
why is he speaking about Jezebel
00:18:56.06\00:18:58.53
as though she's
present in the church,
00:18:58.57\00:19:00.70
no, no, no...
this name is symbolic
00:19:00.74\00:19:02.80
so once we come to
that conclusion, and say,
00:19:02.87\00:19:05.47
"Okay... names here...
in reference to the churches
00:19:05.51\00:19:09.91
represent
symbols... " then we can say,
00:19:09.94\00:19:12.31
"Okay, well that
opens up then for me...
00:19:12.38\00:19:14.62
not to look at
Antipas as an actual person
00:19:14.65\00:19:16.85
but what might
this name have meant
00:19:16.89\00:19:19.65
or what would the name
have been a symbol of?"
00:19:19.69\00:19:23.36
And then the only
way we have to do that
00:19:23.39\00:19:25.53
is to actually look at
the name... what does it mean?
00:19:25.56\00:19:27.76
Remember names
carry significant meanings
00:19:27.80\00:19:30.23
so Jesus... He will save
His people from their sins,
00:19:30.27\00:19:32.97
that's what the
name means, right?
00:19:33.00\00:19:35.17
Look at various names...
00:19:35.20\00:19:36.54
that's another actual symbol...
Jacob... one who prevails...
00:19:36.57\00:19:39.51
Israel... one
that will overcome,
00:19:39.54\00:19:41.21
James: Jacob...
one who deceives,
00:19:41.24\00:19:42.84
Ivor: Yes... yes...
James: Jacob... supplanter...
00:19:42.88\00:19:44.45
Ivor: So names...
00:19:44.48\00:19:46.38
names in the Bible
represent character,
00:19:46.41\00:19:49.28
so all we have to go
on "Antipas" is not...
00:19:49.32\00:19:52.72
"Okay... hey... Antipas... "
00:19:52.75\00:19:54.26
all right... well,
what do I have left?
00:19:54.29\00:19:55.99
Let me look at his character,
00:19:56.02\00:19:57.36
let me look at
what his name means,
00:19:57.39\00:19:58.73
and I see the
name... Anti... Fathers...
00:19:58.76\00:20:01.53
Anti fathers... wait a
minute... what... where am I?
00:20:01.56\00:20:04.83
Well, we're in the Holy Place.
00:20:04.90\00:20:06.23
What time?
00:20:06.27\00:20:07.60
We're in the time
just before 1,260,
00:20:07.64\00:20:10.64
ha... yeah...
this is the time period
00:20:10.67\00:20:14.11
where people were
coming up on the scene
00:20:14.18\00:20:17.18
who were claiming
to have preeminence
00:20:17.21\00:20:19.65
and authority... so...
00:20:19.68\00:20:21.02
James: In the church...
00:20:21.05\00:20:22.38
Ivor: In the church... so
whoever this symbolically is
00:20:22.42\00:20:25.89
he must have been
against the preeminence...
00:20:25.95\00:20:29.52
faithful martyr...
"I'm not bowing to you,"
00:20:29.56\00:20:33.09
you see what I'm saying?
00:20:33.13\00:20:34.50
"I'm not going to bow...
no... call one your Father... "
00:20:34.53\00:20:37.27
all right, so God
is the holy Father
00:20:37.33\00:20:40.47
but apparently
there were other powers
00:20:40.50\00:20:43.00
who were now trying
to claim that title.
00:20:43.04\00:20:45.04
All: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:20:45.07\00:20:46.41
James: So it has to
match the context which...
00:20:46.44\00:20:49.84
we have several options here,
I mean several examples here,
00:20:49.88\00:20:53.82
of individual names
that represent a System
00:20:53.85\00:20:57.52
or represent a principle
rather than an individual,
00:20:57.59\00:20:59.69
we have Jezebel, we have Balac,
00:20:59.72\00:21:02.22
we have Balaam,
Antipas, fits into that context,
00:21:02.26\00:21:05.19
also, it has to... we
have to go back to history
00:21:05.23\00:21:08.10
and see if we can find it,
00:21:08.16\00:21:09.50
if we can't find an
individual in history,
00:21:09.53\00:21:11.13
there's no historical records,
what's the other option?
00:21:11.17\00:21:13.20
And then when we
find another option
00:21:13.23\00:21:15.17
like the principle
of... "against the Fathers,"
00:21:15.20\00:21:17.77
it has to fit the history,
00:21:17.81\00:21:19.14
were there men
who were standing up
00:21:19.17\00:21:21.08
claiming they're
"Fathers of the Church,"
00:21:21.11\00:21:22.78
claiming
preeminence in the church,
00:21:22.81\00:21:24.38
that had to be
opposed and in that opposition
00:21:24.41\00:21:27.52
we see God's
people being martyred
00:21:27.55\00:21:29.45
and they were, in fact,
when this started happening,
00:21:29.48\00:21:33.02
there was a...
there's a famous statement
00:21:33.05\00:21:35.26
in a book called
"The Great Controversy,"
00:21:35.29\00:21:37.23
it talks about
compromise taking place,
00:21:37.26\00:21:38.89
and it says, "The
faithful followers of Christ,
00:21:38.93\00:21:42.06
at this time said, 'Let
there be division even war... '"
00:21:42.10\00:21:45.13
so there was a clear demarcation
that started to take place here
00:21:45.17\00:21:49.74
during this time of compromise
00:21:49.77\00:21:51.24
where the church now is
getting ready to go underground
00:21:51.27\00:21:53.64
because they're not
willing to compromise
00:21:53.68\00:21:55.44
and allow those
pagan principles...
00:21:55.48\00:21:57.55
and those principles
of preeminence to come in
00:21:57.58\00:21:59.61
and by-the-way,
what's interesting is,
00:21:59.65\00:22:01.18
preeminence... self exaltation
00:22:01.22\00:22:04.95
leads to the
compromise of the truth.
00:22:05.02\00:22:07.96
It starts with the
wrong heart right here
00:22:08.02\00:22:10.89
and then the truth...
compromise and truth follows.
00:22:10.93\00:22:14.53
Ivor: And what did Lucifer say?
00:22:14.56\00:22:15.90
"I will exalt... I
will exalt my throne...
00:22:15.93\00:22:19.07
my seat... above
the stars of God,
00:22:19.10\00:22:22.07
I will be like the most High. "
00:22:22.10\00:22:24.57
James: Isaiah 14...
00:22:24.61\00:22:26.01
Ivor: So here's
something I want to point out,
00:22:26.04\00:22:27.38
if I can, very quickly...
00:22:27.41\00:22:28.74
because we've been
looking at this pattern
00:22:28.78\00:22:30.38
in the Old
Testament and guess what, now,
00:22:30.45\00:22:32.38
we saw the first
church... that Adam onward...
00:22:32.41\00:22:35.42
the second
church... persecution,
00:22:35.45\00:22:37.22
oh, that's the Book of Exodus,
00:22:37.29\00:22:38.89
that's the Children of
Israel coming out of captivity,
00:22:38.92\00:22:41.46
well guess what
part of history occurs
00:22:41.49\00:22:44.26
in the Children of Israel
after they come out of Egypt,
00:22:44.29\00:22:47.00
they enter into
the Promise Land...
00:22:47.03\00:22:49.86
whew... ha...
persecution is over...
00:22:49.90\00:22:52.67
we're here and they get a...
00:22:52.70\00:22:54.30
they... they
say, "You know what?
00:22:54.34\00:22:56.04
We don't want a
Priest reigning over us... "
00:22:56.07\00:22:58.07
James: Prophet...
Yvonne: That's right...
00:22:58.11\00:23:00.04
Ivor: "We want a
king... " and who was that king?
00:23:00.08\00:23:02.94
Saul... and who was
Saul? He was an anointed one,
00:23:03.01\00:23:06.25
who was beautiful...
who was comely to look at
00:23:06.28\00:23:09.52
but guess what?
00:23:09.55\00:23:10.89
That anointed one
ended up turning against God,
00:23:10.92\00:23:15.02
that story sounds very
familiar and what did Saul do?
00:23:15.06\00:23:19.23
He was a King who fell because
00:23:19.26\00:23:22.26
he served the
authority of the Priesthood,
00:23:22.30\00:23:25.70
in other words, in
him... was a combination
00:23:25.73\00:23:29.07
of State and Church,
exactly what we have happening
00:23:29.10\00:23:35.51
with Constantine.
00:23:35.54\00:23:36.98
Yvonne: Wow!
00:23:37.01\00:23:38.35
James: And he tried to
persecute God's faithful people,
00:23:38.38\00:23:39.81
tried to kill
God's faithful people.
00:23:39.85\00:23:41.32
Ivor: Absolutely, absolutely.
00:23:41.38\00:23:42.72
James: Why? Even his
son, Jonathan... and David.
00:23:42.75\00:23:44.09
Yvonne: And it was a love story
because God said to Samuel,
00:23:44.12\00:23:48.69
"They're not rejecting
you, they're rejecting me. "
00:23:48.72\00:23:52.66
Ivor: And that is exactly
00:23:52.69\00:23:54.13
what the church of
Pergamos ends up doing,
00:23:54.16\00:23:57.30
in rejecting their
High Priest, for a King...
00:23:57.33\00:24:00.40
"We want your protection,
00:24:00.44\00:24:02.17
we want to be like
the nations around us,
00:24:02.20\00:24:04.11
we want authority now,
we've been persecuted too long,
00:24:04.14\00:24:06.61
give us a King... "
00:24:06.64\00:24:08.41
what ends up happening?
00:24:08.44\00:24:09.91
They begin...
they... in essence...
00:24:09.94\00:24:12.18
reject their High
Priest for a King.
00:24:12.21\00:24:14.45
Yvonne: Wow! wow...
00:24:14.48\00:24:16.02
James: And as you read
through these verses...
00:24:16.05\00:24:17.89
it talks here about Balaam ,
00:24:17.92\00:24:19.55
and we know
Balaam's all about money,
00:24:19.59\00:24:21.29
all about getting ahead,
so he was a prophet of God...
00:24:21.32\00:24:24.89
God even talked to
him through the donkey
00:24:24.93\00:24:28.46
he compromised for money
00:24:28.50\00:24:29.83
so you have a church
here compromising for money,
00:24:29.86\00:24:31.83
for prestige, for
a place in the world,
00:24:31.90\00:24:34.04
Balac, of
course, he wanted to see
00:24:34.07\00:24:38.11
God's people
conquered, how can we do it?
00:24:38.14\00:24:40.94
So Balaam finally
comes up with a plan?
00:24:40.98\00:24:42.88
"If we can get them to
compromise in one area,
00:24:42.91\00:24:44.78
just one area... okay...
00:24:44.81\00:24:46.15
well you've got
the Ten Commandments...
00:24:46.18\00:24:47.82
you've got the doctrine of
Nicolaitanes... "Antinomianism,"
00:24:47.88\00:24:50.29
if we can just compromise
one of those Commandments,
00:24:50.32\00:24:52.69
so in 321...
Constantine brings in
00:24:52.75\00:24:56.19
what's known in history
to be "The first Sunday Law,"
00:24:56.22\00:24:59.09
and the Sunday Law is taking
the pagan worship of the sun
00:24:59.13\00:25:02.00
but bringing it into the church,
00:25:02.03\00:25:03.37
so he's compromising in
one area... just one area...
00:25:03.40\00:25:06.27
Ivor: Marrying of
paganism with Christianity.
00:25:06.30\00:25:09.07
James: Marrying
the women of Balaam,
00:25:09.10\00:25:11.37
the woman... the
Canaanite woman...
00:25:11.41\00:25:13.58
so you see that... all
that history playing out...
00:25:13.64\00:25:16.51
committing fornication,
being unfaithful to God
00:25:16.54\00:25:19.85
and then, "repent or I
will come unto thee quickly,
00:25:19.88\00:25:23.22
and remove thy
candlestick from my place
00:25:23.25\00:25:25.15
I'll fight against it
with a sword of iron... "
00:25:25.19\00:25:27.29
now here's... this
is powerful because
00:25:27.32\00:25:29.26
this is... the
sword of his mouth
00:25:29.32\00:25:30.73
is talking about the Word of God
00:25:30.79\00:25:32.86
and this was what God kept
alive and He's keeping alive...
00:25:32.89\00:25:35.36
He's going to keep fighting
all through the dark ages,
00:25:35.40\00:25:37.87
the Word of God is
going to be kept shining
00:25:37.90\00:25:39.73
and fighting and
fighting till finally...
00:25:39.80\00:25:42.40
it's going to
actually not come back void,
00:25:42.44\00:25:44.67
it's going to
accomplish what its purpose is,
00:25:44.71\00:25:46.91
you've got Luther,
you've got Wycliffe,
00:25:46.94\00:25:49.48
you've got others
who... the Word of God...
00:25:49.51\00:25:51.68
they never meant
to leave the church...
00:25:51.71\00:25:53.88
leave the
compromised church even,
00:25:53.92\00:25:55.38
but the Word of
God... He constrained them...
00:25:55.42\00:25:58.52
I was constrained...
00:25:58.55\00:25:59.89
I'm constrained
by the Word of God.
00:25:59.92\00:26:02.32
Ivor: So that
manna that He gives...
00:26:02.36\00:26:04.89
as the reward... goes
right in line with that,
00:26:04.93\00:26:07.33
He says, "For you
who remain faithful
00:26:07.36\00:26:09.53
not compromising my Word,
00:26:09.56\00:26:11.03
I'm going to
give you more manna,
00:26:11.10\00:26:12.77
I'm going to give
you hidden manna... "
00:26:12.80\00:26:14.74
James: And I'm going
to give you a white stone
00:26:14.77\00:26:17.27
and we talked
about that a little bit
00:26:17.31\00:26:19.51
but the stone...
in this context...
00:26:19.54\00:26:21.68
the stone is representing what?
00:26:21.74\00:26:24.41
Ivor: So, when your name is...
you think about Hollywood...
00:26:24.45\00:26:27.75
when they write
your name in stone,
00:26:27.78\00:26:29.82
it's saying, "All your
names are immortalized"
00:26:29.85\00:26:32.39
so what Jesus is
promising here is He's saying,
00:26:32.42\00:26:34.89
"Look, if I write
your name in stone,
00:26:34.92\00:26:36.83
that means you're
going to last forever,
00:26:36.86\00:26:38.69
you're going to last forever...
00:26:38.76\00:26:40.20
so it's a promise
again of eternal life...
00:26:40.23\00:26:43.30
don't compromise,
remember my love for you
00:26:43.33\00:26:46.30
don't compromise,
00:26:46.33\00:26:47.67
I'm going to give
you the Word of God,
00:26:47.70\00:26:49.04
I'm going to
give you eternal life,
00:26:49.07\00:26:50.41
be faithful and you
will get this reward. "
00:26:50.44\00:26:52.54
James: And that
stone also represents...
00:26:52.57\00:26:54.84
all through the New Testament,
the stones of the Temple,
00:26:54.88\00:26:57.71
the true church,
Jesus is the cornerstone
00:26:57.78\00:26:59.68
and we're built on
Apostles and Prophets
00:26:59.71\00:27:01.58
so, they had to... in a sense...
00:27:01.62\00:27:03.59
they had to leave
the established church
00:27:03.62\00:27:06.19
the outward church,
they had to go underground,
00:27:06.22\00:27:08.99
they're getting
ready to go underground
00:27:09.02\00:27:10.36
but God is promising them,
00:27:10.39\00:27:11.76
"You're still going to
be a part of 'the church,'
00:27:11.79\00:27:13.43
you're going to still have
that promise that I've given you
00:27:13.50\00:27:16.46
to be a part of
the church in heaven,
00:27:16.50\00:27:18.63
the New Jerusalem, the
church of the first born. "
00:27:18.67\00:27:20.10
Ivor: Amen...
00:27:20.14\00:27:21.47
James: So, okay,
we are out of time...
00:27:21.50\00:27:24.14
again, we want to
remind our listeners
00:27:24.17\00:27:26.31
that they can send
their questions in to...
00:27:26.34\00:27:29.28
Jason: sss@3abn. org
00:27:29.34\00:27:31.81
James: sss@3abn. org
00:27:31.85\00:27:34.25
Yvonne: Send
your video questions.
00:27:34.28\00:27:36.35
Jason: Yes.
00:27:36.38\00:27:37.72
James: Video
questions, video questions...
00:27:37.75\00:27:39.25
Yvonne: Video
questions... yeah...
00:27:39.29\00:27:40.62
All right Ivor, take us out with
a word of prayer, would you?
00:27:40.66\00:27:42.99
Ivor: All right, let's pray,
00:27:43.02\00:27:44.43
"Heavenly Father, we thank
you for the study of your Word,
00:27:44.46\00:27:47.23
Lord we thank you for showing us
00:27:47.26\00:27:48.73
the history of
Israel being repeated
00:27:48.76\00:27:51.63
and how we can be faithful Lord
00:27:51.67\00:27:54.50
and receive that white
stone receive that name,
00:27:54.54\00:27:57.94
Father, please bless us as
we continue to study your Word
00:27:57.97\00:28:01.04
and help us to
see that Revelation
00:28:01.08\00:28:02.74
is not a book of terror
but it is indeed a love story,
00:28:02.78\00:28:05.91
help us Lord to love
you with all of our hearts,
00:28:05.95\00:28:08.22
we pray this in
Jesus' name, amen. "
00:28:08.25\00:28:10.75
All: "Amen... "
00:28:10.79\00:28:12.12